S04.E08: No One's Gone

[maystone]

13 minutes ago, JackONeill said:

I was one of the ones who theorized that is was post-dam! But I still don't know. Even watching it to the end, I don't know. Maybe I missed it in all the yakking everyone was doing. Does anyone know, as in KNOW KNOW? (not guessing which is how the writers usually leave us.)

Strand said several times that Maddie rescued him, pulled him from the water, forgave him for betraying her and her kids.

[maystone]

7 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

. . .

I honestly spent the first half of the episode thinking that Althea had run into Madison immediately post stadium before she met up with the rest of our crew and after they began scuffling was almost convinced we were about to find out that Madison had survived after all despite all the heavy death anvils ringing all season only for Althea to have killed her, probably unintentionally and never the wiser that she had been the same person.  In hindsight, that would have been more interesting than what we got, a drawn out bird story and  a yep, she's dead. 

I thought that, too! And I agree that that would have been a great plot twist. By the time we reached the end of the front half, though, it mostly ended up being haphazard story telling. As someone else pointed out up thread: What the hell with the Vultures?  That story line had some potential, but it ended up as just a tangential plot, popping up only to create some drama. I couldn't help comparing it to the Terminus group on the mother ship. Gareth and his crew had less screen time than Mel and the Vultures [great band name!] (or maybe roughly the same amount), but was more fully realized.

[JackONeill]

16 minutes ago, maystone said:

As someone else pointed out up thread: What the hell with the Vultures?  That story line had some potential, but it ended up as just a tangential plot, popping up only to create some drama. I couldn't help comparing it to the Terminus group on the mother ship. Gareth and his crew had less screen time than Mel and the Vultures [great band name!] (or maybe roughly the same amount), but was more fully realized.

Believe me, although it may sound like I didn't watch it, I did, but . . .

Did I hear right that Mel is alive? If true, he might be an interesting addition to the cast. He didn't strike me as being stark-raving mad like the Terminus people, yet he had a certain je ne sais quoi aspect to him. And if I'm also right (and I know I'm pushing my luck) he didn't want to kill anyone in the Stadium and he seemed to like Madison.

And on a related note—what of Charlie?? She killed Nick,  and Alisha hates people who harm her family, but she (Charlie) is still there. And she has ties with Mel, right?

Edited June 11, 2018 by JackONeill

[maystone]

8 minutes ago, JackONeill said:

Believe me, although it may sound like I didn't watch it, I did, but . . .

Did I hear right that Mel is alive? If true, he might be an interesting addition to the cast. He didn't strike me as being stark-raving mad like the Terminus people, yet he had a certain je ne sais quoi aspect to him. And if I'm also right (and I know I'm pushing my luck) he didn't want to kill anyone in the Stadium and he seemed to like Madison.

And on a related note—what of Charlie?? She killed Nick,  and Alisha hates people who harm her family, but she (Charlie) is still there. And she has ties with Mel, right?

It was implied that Mel was still alive. He and Chuckles were briefly on the walkie-talkie together, but by the end he was just gurgling at her. To me it sounded as if TPTB were leaving the door open for his return. I believe that he has a guardian/father-figure relationship to Charlie. Like Fagin to the Artful Dodger.

[nodorothyparker]

That was in the past timeline.  We saw Alicia move pretty decisively to drive her sharpened gun piece through his head after the firefight in the present timeline last episode.

[JackONeill]

5 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

That was in the past timeline.  We saw Alicia move pretty decisively to drive her sharpened gun piece through his head after the firefight in the present timeline last episode.

Wait! What?

[nodorothyparker]

A badly injured Mel crawled out of the exploded ambulance last episode after the firefight was over.  Alicia saw him and asked him several times how long Laura/Naomi/June had been with the group.  He was either unable or unwilling to answer and she decided she didn't care.  The scene ends with her moving to drive the metal through his head.  This is all in the present timeline as Althea has already driven Morgan, John, Laura/Naomi/June, and Charley off toward the first aid supplies at the stadium and the other three are deciding to go after them.

[JackONeill]

No. NOT MEL!!!!

I hardly knew you, buddy.

Edited June 11, 2018 by JackONeill

[Iguessnot]

3 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Perhaps it is just me, but I would consider last year's cast coming into this season as the antagonists.

I am just waiting for Charlie's redemption arc.  How she is some misunderstood kid that is pissed at the world, because of her past.

Sort of like an Alicia mini me.

 

She won't get a redemption arc because the little brat was never written as being much of a problem.

[FortKnox]

So, according to Talking Dead the other groups didn't make it out.  Which shows you how what that, whatever you call it worked. Because, I had no idea about that.

[SimoneS]

So they did kill Madison off. Kim Dickens was a dreadful actress, but I am surprised that they got rid of of her.

Are Walker and Crazy Dog still alive?

Edited June 13, 2018 by SimoneS

[Giselle]

16 hours ago, raven said:

Eh, the timelines didn't bug me and they're caught up now, unless they go back to explain how Madison got separated from Strand and everyone else after the dam.  She pulled everyone from the water so they must have been together.

Alicia's hate for Naomi was over the top, with no real explanation about what made her act like that.  It would have made more sense to have Naomi/June actually be working with the Vultures or something; we know Mel didn't want to take the stadium down, she could have been a dissenting voice as well.  Instead she was just a random person trying to survive so LET'S BLAME HER FOR EVERYTHING.

But hey, John Dorie lives yay :)

Ugh, the stupidness of them just sitting in the car doing nothing cannot be overstated.  We even saw Strand's wanna be boyfriend sitting in a car doing nothing except yelling, why??? 

I totally think Madison is alive.

One can wish otherwise. I bet the writers will keep Madison on to torture other FTWD communities and us.She deserves to die for giving birth and raising two useless, know it all, piss poor excuses for progeny.

Edited June 11, 2018 by Giselle

[SimoneS]

I just realized that even with Alicia still on the show, the reboot is official. Lennie James as Morgan is the new leading man.

[zobot81]

14 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I just realized that even with Alicia still on the show, the reboot is official. Lennie James as Morgan is the new leading man.

Oh gawd no. I can't handle an entire show of morgalizing.  NO. no. absolutely not.

[Butless]

That instant kimchi communion at the end was laughable. Such misplaced gravitas.

As was that godawful slo-mo montage of Saint Madison heroically being burned alive.

 I didnt like Madison by the end of last season, but I understood her. She was just enough of a sociopath to be a good survivor, as were her kids.  So in seasons 2 & 3, when they decided to make them solidly grey and stop pussyfooting around, it was good watching. It was something different. Less of a morality play like the other show, and more messy and human.

Then Gimple arrives, and TPTP did what theyve been doing under Gimple for years, caving in to the loudest monority of fan pressure. They changed the characters to absurd lengths; did a complete 180 on Madison and Nick.  And decided to scrap the most interesting complex character of Madison.  It was like watching this show in an alternate universe from the ones that preceded it.

The writing is so sophomoric on this show. Like they are a bunch of high schoolers sitting around and liking each others lame contributions, in the 11th hour, before it's due. I hope they get all the shirt in the world, from people from now on, because they deserve it. Ive finally reached the point where Im angry I got suckered into these shows.

I want a breakdown of the writers on these episodes, and want to know by percentage, who wrote how much. Did they even have women on this show that contributed to anything? Did they have any women Madison's age in their writing rooms, ever?  And I dont care if Huth or Hurd (how weird) who shows up on the TD couch had any say. They are shills, and have said the stupidest thing on that show, to cover for the bad writing and nonsensical carp that goes on.  Its the people at the top here, who were given a golden egg and cracked it to make a spoiled omlette.

[SnarkyTart]

16 hours ago, Starchild said:

I would be fine with just John, Naomi, Morgan, and Strand going forward.

I'll take that.  I'd like to see Daniel added back to the cast, and wouldn't object to Althea staying. 

For all its faults this season, I never believed the show would have the balls to kill Madison and Nick.  However those decisions got made, it's a welcome contrast to other shows, (like Grimm and Sleepy Hollow), that chose to go down in flames with TPTB screaming that their fans were too stupid to appreciate their horrific lead actors/characters.  For that matter, it's a welcome change from the mothership show where TPTB killed popular characters in a giant middle finger to the fans.

This show chose a near-total reboot, added a fan favorite from the mothership, and added at least one immensely likable character (John) who's already proving to be popular with the fans.  Removing Madison as their initially preferred heart and soul of the show, and killing off Nick, their initially preferred hearththrob of the show, were good choices imo.  It's the only hope the show had of surviving, and possibly even evolving in a positive direction.

How we got to this point is a pretty messy affair, but I'm actually looking forward to what they plan for this essentially all-new show.

[MVFrostsMyPie]

RIP Madison. You had perfect hair and makeup all the way to the end. Why won't my eyes stop rolling? I'm sad not because Dickens is gone now, but sad because the Madison character had so much potential and if only they had cast someone else, I'd care more. 

I wish there could be a new show that takes place somewhere that has landmarks. Yeah, I get it, there's too many dead people in cities, but the scenery bores me. If the writing was strong enough, it wouldn't matter where they are, I'd be invested in the story, but everything fucking looks the same. 

The most touching moment of the night was Coleman Domingo crying on TD. 

[bookrat]

So just why did Charlie shoot Nick? Did I miss it? Was there a reason? And yes to everyone who stated they were disappointed with June's only crime was running away.  I don't know, I think I'd shoot Charlie for actually murdering my brother that try to chase someone down to kill them because.....eveyone thought she was dead? Did Alicia think she was a spy? Didn't get the hate.

And why didn't Madison try to climb the fence when the walkers were closing up on her? I swear, some of these character are just too dumb to live.

[OoohMaggie]

@bookrat,

Charlie shot Nick because Nick killed Ennis in the storage unit using the deer antlers. Ennis and Mel rescued and looked after Charlie after her parents died, so she thought of Ennis and Mel as family. Obviously she’s looking through a kids eyes as regards to who started what and why.

[nodorothyparker]

Kim Dickens says the character is dead and TTD gave her an In Memoriam.  So unless they have her crawl out of a secret tunnel under home plate a season from now, I'm taking it at face value because I'm not sorry she's off the canvas.  Dickens has seemed competent enough in nearly everything else I've ever seen her in, but something between the role, the writing, and her two expressions never clicked.  It was exhausting and irritating season after season watching the character try to throw her weight around disproportionately to her ability to back it up and the amount of propping characters like Strand, Walker, early season Daniel, and even Travis had to do for her.  I'm still not fully recovered from last season when not only did we get to continue watching her have strangely inappropriate chemistry with her TV son, but we were never quite sure whether she wanted to mother or fuck Troy.

[OoohMaggie]

I’m not going to pretend to be upset that Madison has died, I spent long enough saying how annoying she was, it’s just how she died that I have the problem with. The tragic violin accompaniment and dramatic lighting effects only highlighted how ridiculous the whole scene was. Pied Piper Madison leads the rats down to the river, without a care or thought to her own future, a future that would mean she’d never see the kids she’s sacrificing herself for ever again, really? 

Nick,  What happened to your ‘get out of jail free’ card? The trick you normally play, covering yourself in walker blood, you could have got everyone out of there without so much as a second sniff from a ‘stumbler’

so 40 odd people panic and don’t trust perfectly adequate walls, which a few strategically placed vehicles could have made impenetrable, and get themselves killed en masse, yeah Ok!

It was a poor, poor end to an otherwise good season, all that build up just for for that anticlimactic resolution.

From  all the characters they could have chosen, all those who’ve shown promise, all those we’ve been sad to see go, they leave us with Alicia!  FFS you’ve got to be kidding Lol

[magdalene]

Sigh.  The narrative structure on this show has been more confusing and complicated than Westworld.  And it is not earned here.

[AnyTimeFromNow]

18 hours ago, Buttless said:

Scott Gimple ruined yet another show.  Who the eff is this POS related to, that he can keep these jobs?

Killing off Madison is some misogynistic carp, and it will be seen as this, eventually. I am certain. Misogynist fanboiing, whether it was men or women complaining, in these genres has to stop being catered to and rewarded.  Im not saying that everyone on this board who conplained about Dickens is misogynistic. Im saying that the overall complaining in this genre has a BIG BIG problem that follows along the same lines. And Gimple is a pandering coward.

It's like you are in my brain, Buttless. This X 1000.

[Philip]

God dammit. This was another dreadful 40min episode to endure and the outcome? Now Madison is dead, the sad thing is that her death didn't even go out with a bang. Madison was one of my faves and now she's gone, god fucking dammit, this show just keeps getting worse.

 

I really hate the constant now and then scenes, just stick with the current moments already!

 

I'm hoping FearTWD gets better but it probably won't now. I gave up on TWD and likely will do the same for FearTWD as well.

Edited June 11, 2018 by Philip

[Mahamid Frauded Me]

I wasn't sure if Madison was dead either, certainly if she had any brains she wouldn't have offed herself for her 2 ungrateful whiny brats. Maybe we are being "Glenned" and she sought safety in a batting cage or a concession stand, maybe Daniel swings in like Tarzan and saves her and then they do a shot of Don Julio together.  Something seems fishy that we lose both Nick and Madison in only 8 episodes in so far this season.  Alicia needs a Xanex

[Philip]

3 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I just realized that even with Alicia still on the show, the reboot is official. Lennie James as Morgan is the new leading man.

That sounds terrible and if so, I'm giving up on this show.

[loki567]

Misogyny's a pretty big word to throw at somebody. I think Gimple was put in place to make FtWD more like the TWD and decided to center the show around one of his favorite characters in Morgan. That's not pleasant but I wouldn't say it qualifies for misogyny.

I also wonder if Kim Dickens voluntarily left the show. I read online that she was close to the former show-runner and it might have been similar situation to Darabont regulars leaving after his exit. Might have been she didn't like being demoted, I don't know. 

[SimoneS]

I don't buy the misogyny claim against Gimple for a second. Kim Dickens was positively dreadful as Madison. The storytelling from almost the beginning of FTWD wasn't great, Dickens' bad acting and inability emote didn't help. If the plan is to have Morgan as lead that instantly upgrades the acting on this show and that can only be for the good.

@loki567, on TD, Kim Dickens said that she was fired. That she was close to the former showrunner explains how she got the gig though because she was horrific in the role.

 

13 minutes ago, Philip said:

That sounds terrible and if so, I'm giving up on this show.

Given that the audience has consistently declined since season one, you are joining a big club.

Edited June 11, 2018 by SimoneS

[raven]

3 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

It was exhausting and irritating season after season watching the character try to throw her weight around disproportionately to her ability to back it up and the amount of propping characters like Strand, Walker, early season Daniel, and even Travis had to do for her. 

This is a good point.  Madison's best scenes were bonding with Strand.   She was not really a convincing badass to me, which was why I bought into her transformation this season. 

(I was on the "Madison's not dead" train until watching TD and seeing the media reports - nope, she's dead).

I haven't see KD in anything else and I haven't been impressed with her but I can say that the writing has been bad.  I didn't mind the "what happened to Madison" mystery going on but the resolution was awful.  Why is everyone sitting in cars and not doing anything?  Why didn't they try to lead the zombies away in their cars?  Why did thousands of zombies follow the pretty light and not the noisy cars when we've seen they go for noise?  Oh wait, almost everyone died anyway so Madison's sacrifice was worthless.   Though she ultimately only cared about Nick (dead now); Alicia (gone nuts for a while) and Strand (still here), so that's probably all she really wanted.

Never mind Alicia's anger towards June (Naomi) for really no reason.  I get them being mad at the Vultures but June wasn't one.  So Mel's brother Ennis basically had a temper tantrum and decided to wipe out the stadium when we had no evidence such a thing would happen.  THEN when Nick runs into Ennis, Ennis doesn't seem worried at all that Nick might be pissed off???  This was one of the reasons I though Madison was not dead - Ennis acted like everything was a-OK. 

Plus Madison drags pretty much everyone out of the water at the dam explosion but then they lose her somehow so can meet with Althea.  Lazy writing.

Why is annoying Charlie here??? Do not like or want.

The show has some good actors and occasionally an interesting premise.  It's like they can't help themselves sometimes with the usual crap they write.

[AnyTimeFromNow]

55 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Kim Dickens was positively dreadful as Madison. The storytelling from almost the beginning of FTWD wasn't great, Dickens' bad acting and inability emote didn't help.

 

I think Kim Dickens was fine as Madison. It was refreshing to see a woman character who didn't emote in the way that society expects of her. She was stoic and closed off--nearly inscrutable. This kind of woman character has been a long time coming. I don't know if her presumed exit was due to the flack Dickens was receiving, but I found her sudden (to the viewer) change in personality disconcerting and disappointing. If she really is gone, it will seem like a defeat.

[FishyJoe]

Well, it's safe to say Alicia inherited the stupid gene from Madison. They've lived in that stadium for months and she can't think of a single spot to hide or escape? WTF, they've known they could be attacked any time and they didn't build any kind of shelter or escape route? It's like they learned nothing from the last community they destroyed. Or the one before that. 

And you could clearly see a chain link fence and a bunch of stuff Madison could have climbed, but no she just stands there like an idiot. 

If they had RPG's and all those weapons, why didn't they use them before? 

Edited June 12, 2018 by FishyJoe

[Bongo Fury]

15 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

If the scripts were better, I am sure Dickens could have pulled it off. 

You obviously didn't watch Deadwood then. The writing was outstanding, David Milch ftw. Yet we got the same wooden expressionless performance from Kim Dickens. I'm sorry, but she is quite simply a poor actress.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

9 hours ago, SimoneS said:

So they did kill Madison off. Kim Dickens was a dreadful actress, but I am surprised that they go rid of of her.

Are Walker and Crazy Dog still alive?

Yes.

 

But the actors weren't asked to return this season.

5 hours ago, loki567 said:

Misogyny's a pretty big word to throw at somebody. I think Gimple was put in place to make FtWD more like the TWD and decided to center the show around one of his favorite characters in Morgan. That's not pleasant but I wouldn't say it qualifies for misogyny.

I also wonder if Kim Dickens voluntarily left the show. I read online that she was close to the former show-runner and it might have been similar situation to Darabont regulars leaving after his exit. Might have been she didn't like being demoted, I don't know. 

 

No she didn't, New Showrunners decided kill the character.

[OoohMaggie]

The show runners ‘and a producer’ took the decision to kill Madison, Mmmmmm who could that have been?

so did Frank’s decision to quit have anything to do with Kim? She knew before seasons filming started, about the time Frank told them he wanted out,  coincidence?

[Daltrey]

1.Althea saying she would punch Alicia in the cooch is quite possibly the greatest thing this show has given us. Maggie Grace can stay till the end as far as I'm concerned.

2.I hated Madison as much as anyone, but that's a testament to the writing, not KD's acting. If anything, I'd say her abilities amplified the stupidity inherent on the page. She may not be award worthy, but no one ever see's any keyboard warriors in front of a camera proving themselves to be better.

3.I'd like to thank half the board for making me feel like a genius.

[Philip]

The flashbacks now and then are pretty terrible but the shooting scenes don't help either, it's like they're in a video game where the bullets are unlimited. I used to enjoy FearTWD but haven't for a good while now.

[JackONeill]

I was thinking last night that wouldn't it be cool if TPTB gave us some "what-if" scenes?

Just imagine if Althea approached the Wolves or the dude at Terminus with the line "What's your story?"

And if she did it with the Governor or Negan, she'd wind up in bed, wed.

And we'd see her camera in the hands of one of the boys from Joe and The Claimers, but we wouldn't see her.

[SimoneS]

9 hours ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

Yes.

But the actors weren't asked to return this season.

Thanks. At least, Walker and Crazy Dog made it out alive. 

[Madding crowd]

So it seems like Althea's whole story about filming people was a set up for this dramatic "So I could live" ending. It seemed corny and it wasn't much different than the other 900 times someone did something to save someone. I didn't hate Madison or Nick and I think shows take a big risk when they want to keep killing off main characters. I like John Dorie and Morgan just fine, but whenever shows take a huge turn, there is no guarantee I will like it. This show (and the mothership) gets compared to Lost alot, but at least Lost kept the main cast until the very end, even if they were in alternate timelines. 

I actually think I will miss Nick more than Madison because he was basically a kind if messed up person. He had a different personality than the kill, kill,kill  sort and I need to have other type of people on a show like this. Alicia is really mean and cold and always has been. I still like Strand, but much like Morgan, they don't know what to do with him. 

I don't like Charlie and I'm trying to like Naomi/June/Laura despite my general dislike for Jenna Elfman. 

[JackONeill]

The more I think about it the more I'm sorry they killed off Madison, and Nick to a lesser extent. Maybe Dickens isn't the best actress—I'm honestly not qualified to say, and a lot of what's being thrown out by others are subjective opinions (which are fine, but as far as valid criticism, not so much)—but that's who this show opened with. She was the Mama Bear, and I think she conveyed that convincingly. She equaled Rick in that regard. You always had the feeling she would do anything for her family. (Yeah the whole Nick v Alicia, and who's the favorite, grew tiresome).

Now, I never liked Nick. I don't like when drug users are shown in "good light" regardless of the circumstances. But that's just me. But, again, he was there at the beginning, and the entire show opened with him in the church. And they came up with some interesting things for him. His whole "I am one with the Walkers" thing was kind of neat. But------

The writers dropped the ball. Not only on these two, but the whole frigging show.

And that is really disappointing. Kim Dickens and probably the Nick actor (sorry, cannot remember name) get fired because the writers and producers and directors can't come up with a decent show. I blame TPTB much, much, much more than any actor.

And if I were the actress (sorry forget name again) playing Alicia I'd have my agent actively looking for new roles, because I think she'll be the next bye-bye. And I have NO idea why Luciana is even on the show. Her only connection was Nick, and well, now he's dead.

And I can tell many viewers are ALREADY annoyed with Althena and her camera. (Though I like Maggie Grace.) Some people are already questioning Morgan's role. And I personally think Strand has become one-note. Yeah, sure, maybe John will make a great leading man, but when the hell are they going to give him a line to read?!?

(I don't what to say about Naomi, except she has what, three names. That must mean something.)

TPTB need to shakes things up . . . but in a good way!!!

[Philip]

3 minutes ago, JackONeill said:

The more I think about it the more I'm sorry they killed off Madison, and Nick to a lesser extent. Maybe Dickens isn't the best actress—I'm honestly not qualified to say, and a lot of what's being thrown out by others are subjective opinions (which are fine, but as far as valid criticism, not so much)—but that's who this show opened with. She was the Mama Bear, and I think she conveyed that convincingly. She equaled Rick in that regard. You always had the feeling she would do anything for her family. (Yeah the whole Nick v Alicia, and who's the favorite, grew tiresome).

Now, I never liked Nick. I don't like when drug users are shown in "good light" regardless of the circumstances. But that's just me. But, again, he was there at the beginning, and the entire show opened with him in the church. And they came up with some interesting things for him. His whole "I am one with the Walkers" thing was kind of neat. But------

The writers dropped the ball. Not only on these two, but the whole frigging show.

And that is really disappointing. Kim Dickens and probably the Nick actor (sorry, cannot remember name) get fired because the writers and producers and directors can't come up with a decent show. I blame TPTB much, much, much more than any actor.

And if I were the actress (sorry forget name again) playing Alicia I'd have my agent actively looking for new roles, because I think she'll be the next bye-bye. And I have NO idea why Luciana is even on the show. Her only connection was Nick, and well, now he's dead.

And I can tell many viewers are ALREADY annoyed with Althena and her camera. (Though I like Maggie Grace.) Some people are already questioning Morgan's role. And I personally think Strand has become one-note. Yeah, sure, maybe John will make a great leading man, but when the hell are they going to give him a line to read?!?

(I don't what to say about Naomi, except she has what, three names. That must mean something.)

TPTB need to shakes things up . . . but in a good way!!!

If AMC just canceled this show, no one would miss it.

[OoohMaggie]

1 hour ago, Philip said:

The more I think about it the more I'm sorry they killed off Madison, and Nick to a lesser extent. Maybe Dickens isn't the best actress—I'm honestly not qualified to say,

 

If you think she’s a good actress, then she’s a good actress, it’s what the person does for you, the way they make you feel that is important. She could have played the part exactly how the writers, directors or runners wanted it played, then again she may not have, nobody knows, so your opinion is as valid as any and more important than all

a few years back somebody paid $180 Million for a Picasso, in my opinion a complete waste of paint that I wouldn’t have wiped my backside on, go figure! Lol

[jane1978]

I quess I´m in a minority but I had zero troubles orienting in the timelines. The only questionable was the one with Maddison/Al meeting but then they not only showed her reunion with Nick but even their first arrival at the stadium. How much more clear they could get? Also, love the writers trolling the audience with Maddison immediatelly going for a big bear hug with Nick and barely aknowledging Alicia.

I expected Maddison to be truly dead ever since "June" was revealed as alive last episode. They are written as very similar characters and noway they would keep both. Maddison´s last hurrah made zero sense because there was atleast 20 different ways she could survive (and we saw her and the kids in a much worse situations before), but obviously they wanted to be as artistic and poignant as possible with her end. Must say from how much pissed Maddison looked the entire episode it was pretty obvious from the first scene the actress was truly fired.

So if I understand it right the other Vulture brother was just angry Maddison survived so he decided to take the stadium out with the fire walkers and didn´t care there will be nothing  left after??? 

It´s unlikely, but June could still lie with her part of the story to make herself look better and get another chance with Alicia. 

Again total minority, but I like Charlie. I think she is a good addition to the cast even when she will probably end either kidnapped or in a danger a lot. Will be interesting to see if she and Alicia eventually bond. 

I watch only occasionally the mother show, but how big character Morgan was there? Because people say he will be the new lead, but so far I only see him as supporting and cool mentor character. I think the new leads will most likely be Althea (I believe Maggie Grace is the biggest name from the cast) and/or Alicia. 

[piequinn35]

Quick question: Is this the last season? that's why they killed off Madison?

[raven]

1 hour ago, piequinn35 said:

Quick question: Is this the last season? that's why they killed off Madison?

It hasn't been announced if there's going to be a fifth season or not.

[Miles]

I guess I'm one of the few people who liked Madisson. Sure the character could be infuriating at times and I called her the angel of death for a reason, but at least the actress is very good and I loved her chemistry with Strand (which admittedly, we haven't gotten much of in multiple seasons).

So I will miss her and I'm not sure if the show is worth watching without her. I guess we'll see.

I guess we didn't see her die and thus there is always a way that she might still be alive, but in this case that would be increadibly cheap. That would make me consider dropping the show immediately. It also wouldn't be in character for this show. There were a lot of deaths we didn't actually see. Travis, his psycho son, etc.

On 11.6.2018 at 4:07 AM, Shriekingeel said:

I would support a five year ban on the use of all flashbacks and flash forwards by  television writers.

Seconded. I already lamented that in the first episode thread of this season.

Only thing worse is Westworlds time scrambeling.

 

On 11.6.2018 at 5:10 AM, Buttless said:

Killing off Madison is some misogynistic carp, and it will be seen as this, eventually. I am certain. Misogynist fanboiing, whether it was men or women complaining, in these genres has to stop being catered to and rewarded. 

Yes, everything is sexist against women. It was especially sexist against women when that girl killed Nick! Because of... reasons!

 

On 11.6.2018 at 10:13 PM, nodorothyparker said:

Kim Dickens says the character is dead and TTD gave her an In Memoriam. 

I think she's dead, but I gotta say, they pulled that exact same shit with Glenn and the dumpster.

 

On 11.6.2018 at 10:27 PM, OoohMaggie said:

so 40 odd people panic and don’t trust perfectly adequate walls, which a few strategically placed vehicles could have made impenetrable, and get themselves killed en masse, yeah Ok!

Yeah, that was the most idiotic idiot plot I've seen in years. And I've watched the walking dead! Which included everybody not shooting Negan, when he is prancing around in full view.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Miles

[Philip]

If Morgan is the new leader of the group then oh god, it's only going to get even worse than it already is. I remember watching Morgan's special episode on TWD which was like 1hr long and the most entertaining thing about it was the animal on the land (it was either a chicken or a sheep).

 

And don't get me started with Morgan's "all life is precious" because if so, then why does he allow everyone and even himself to kill the innocent zombies who did nothing wrong? lol

[Stephanie23]

This season is so bad compared to season 3. I still miss Troy Otto and those storylines.

[raven]

You can consider the show misogynistic or not without being rude to your fellow posters; posts have been removed for being uncivil.

The topic in this thread is the mid-season finale of FtWD.  If you want to talk about overall bias and controversy in the show, please go to the new thread here.

[Gobi]

My prediction about Madison being dead was correct, a rare success for me, so maybe she isn't really dead (Daniel got out of a much worse firery situation, with no real explanation of how). Speaking of Daniel, I don't think he'll be back, but I will believe that he survived that dam explosion and has gone on to have much more interesting adventures than we'll see on the show.

Don't know why Charlie was kept around. Not just because I don't care for the character or the actress, either.  It's because I would have thought that TPTB would have realized their mistake with Carl. You can't have a child actor in a show where an entire season might depict only a few days or weeks. Charlie looks like she's ready to shoot up like a weed overnight. Before too long, it will be tough to tell her and Alicia apart.