S15.E24: Date with Destiny

[MyAimIsTrue]

Quote

Sloane is adamant that a man who held her hostage and tortured her years ago in Afghanistan, and was believed to have been killed following her rescue, is alive and in D.C. Also, Vance and Gibbs fear Sloane is willing to risk everything to destroy this man.

[GHScorpiosRule]

37 minutes ago, MyAimIsTrue said:

Sloane is adamant that a man who held her hostage and tortured her years ago in Afghanistan, and was believed to have been killed following her rescue, is alive and in D.C. Also, Vance and Gibbs fear Sloane is willing to risk everything to destroy this man.

How original.  ???????

[Katy M]

 Sigh.  More terrorist stuff.  Yet another agent going rogue (although she didn't actually get to do anything--yet).  And, who was flying the plane that they didn't care that their passenger had a prisoner with him?  Is it really that easy to kidnap someone and take them out of the country?  

And, then they just seemed to pigeonhole that bomb threat thing in there.  Didn't have enough to fill the whole hour out with the stupid terrorist plot?  I will say this, though, I teared up when that kid was talking about how he just wanted his dad to be at his graduation when he missed so much of everything else.  Sad, though, because he's going to get in a boatload of trouble and it's going to mess up the rest of his life.

I think it may have made a more interesting episode if Jack had been wrong.  And, I love the fact that her date thought that she was completely bananas and hopped the next flight home.  Can't say that I blame him.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Katy M

[pally]

How many times does this make for Vance getting kidnapped?  

[Katy M]

6 minutes ago, pally said:

How many times does this make for Vance getting kidnapped?  

Do federal agents of any variety tend to get kindapped on a regular basis IRL?

[Ohmo]

I thought it was interesting that Shannon and Kelly were buried in a three-person plot, with the remaining space left for Gibbs.

I continue to like Kasie and how she's making the lab her own.

Jack is fine.  I don't particularly like or dislike her, but I was disappointed that the writers didn't tie the British baddie (and it's weird to see an actor who was a Bones squintern as a baddie) to Clay somehow.  Like Jack could have discovered that Clay had been investigating the guy for MI5 when he was killed.

All in all, this was a looong year with lots of drama (most of it off-screen.)  This year, the hiatus might not be a bad thing.

[secnarf]

I liked this episode better in the original version (Shell Shock).

[Katy M]

I forgot until someone else mentioned Kasie. Wouldn't a scientist know better than to blast really loud music through their headphones?

[stonehaven]

I watched the Middle finale...truth be told, I really don't recall much of NCIS and what I forgot..that was a Season Finale? Not much punch and too many cliches...not sure I'll be back.

[BookWitch]

Did like the dress Jack was wearing on her date. Can't find the designer name tho'. 

[twoods]

Last week felt more like a finale than this episode. Still sad they killed off another good character for no reason last week and contemplating whether it’s worth it to come back next season. Stupid ass writers.

[JackONeill]

I really don’t get what Gibbs and Jack thought they were going to do at the end, assuming the bad guy had been on the plane. The dude had diplomatic immunity. And perhaps more importantly, they didn’t have any real ... oh, you know ... real proof!

Talk about an international incident. And by that way, even IF Gibbs and Jack turned out to be right, the case would have been tossed out for all the laws THEY broke.

Isn’t NCIS supposed to be a law ENFORCEMENT agency??!!??

[Trey]

15 minutes ago, JackONeill said:

Isn’t NCIS supposed to be a law ENFORCEMENT agency??!!??

Not when it concerns One Of Their Own.

Cliche ridden as it was, I enjoyed it.

[Katy M]

13 minutes ago, JackONeill said:

I really don’t get what Gibbs and Jack thought they were going to do at the end, assuming the bad guy had been on the plane. The dude had diplomatic immunity. And perhaps more importantly, they didn’t have any real ... oh, you know ... real proof!

Talk about an international incident. And by that way, even IF Gibbs and Jack turned out to be right, the case would have been tossed out for all the laws THEY broke.

Isn’t NCIS supposed to be a law ENFORCEMENT agency??!!??

I think Jack thought she was going to kill him.  No diplomatic immunity problem there.  I think Gibbs really mainly went to stop her.  

I really do wish it had turned out Jack had been wrong.  That would have been a much more interesting story.  And not unrealistic.  A lot of voice sound alike.  Especially if he had been a relative of the guy.  

[Linderhill]

I really don't give a crap about Jack and her trauma. FF thru the obligatory torture scenes just like I did in the NOLA edition a couple of weeks ago when their female agent was tortured (I don't like her or care about her either). It was interesting that Gibbs actually talked to Jack about his vendetta. And color me surprised we got a mention of Mrs. McGee.

[Clanstarling]

12 hours ago, Katy M said:

And, then they just seemed to pigeonhole that bomb threat thing in there.  Didn't have enough to fill the whole hour out with the stupid terrorist plot?  I will say this, though, I teared up when that kid was talking about how he just wanted his dad to be at his graduation when he missed so much of everything else.  Sad, though, because he's going to get in a boatload of trouble and it's going to mess up the rest of his life.

I think it may have made a more interesting episode if Jack had been wrong.  And, I love the fact that her date thought that she was completely bananas and hopped the next flight home.  Can't say that I blame him.

I got the feeling they were somehow going to handwave the boy's action. But there was no follow up, so who knows.

Can't blame him either - even if he understood the reasons. It would be a real risk to begin a relationship with someone with such active trauma.

11 hours ago, Katy M said:

I forgot until someone else mentioned Kasie. Wouldn't a scientist know better than to blast really loud music through their headphones?

Bugged me too, but in my experience knowledge isn't the same as action. There are doctors who still smoke (cliche, but yet true), and there are probably lots of examples of behavior contrary to knowledge from various evidence based professions.

One amusing thing - my closed captioning took out the word "lust" when she said "lust at second drink." So to Bishop's "love at first sight?" she replied "at second drink" - which changes the meaning just a bit.

[slothgirl]

12 hours ago, Ohmo said:

it's weird to see an actor who was a Bones squintern as a baddie)

And a master of accents! Remember on Bones how he faked a middle eastern accent until he slipped up and his American accent took everyone by surprise?

2 hours ago, JackONeill said:

I really don’t get what Gibbs and Jack thought they were going to do at the end, assuming the bad guy had been on the plane. The dude had diplomatic immunity. And perhaps more importantly, they didn’t have any real ... oh, you know ... real proof!

Talk about an international incident. And by that way, even IF Gibbs and Jack turned out to be right, the case would have been tossed out for all the laws THEY broke.

Isn’t NCIS supposed to be a law ENFORCEMENT agency??!!??

I'm thinking that diplomatic immunity primarily protects someone from arrest and prosecution of crimes committed while being covered by the DI, not for international war crimes committed at some previous point in another country. It's also questionable whether it would cover someone who operating under an assumed name and identity.

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

I think Jack thought she was going to kill him.  No diplomatic immunity problem there.  I think Gibbs really mainly went to stop her.  

I really do wish it had turned out Jack had been wrong.  

That's too much subtle nuance for this show. It's always been hamfisted about relationships and dark past crap. I agree that Jack's plan was to kill him and Gibbs plan was to pull out a save of her soul at the last minute cause THAT"S never been done before on this show. The man should be a priest.

1 hour ago, Linderhill said:

. It was interesting that Gibbs actually talked to Jack about his vendetta.

Gibbs: I've never told anyone about this before

Me: And yet, everyone knows anyway.

[Katy M]

25 minutes ago, slothgirl said:

I'm thinking that diplomatic immunity primarily protects someone from arrest and prosecution of crimes committed while being covered by the DI, not for international war crimes committed at some previous point in another country. It's also questionable whether it would cover someone who operating under an assumed name and identity.

I definitely think it could/would be waived under these circumstances. But, I really think diplomatic channels would be gone through, and then if that didn't work, a court order sought BEFORE you arrest him. Yeah, he'd probably have gotten away, but I still think that's how it would be done.  Or you would try to stop him from leaving the country via subtler means while going through all that.  Problem with the plane. Request for questioning on other matter. Have an agent as the pilot fly him in the wrong direction so you're not leaving and then apologize for the mixup if immunity isn't waived.

[12catcrazy]

Sigh.  Anybody ever see the movie "Death and the Maiden"?   Similar story but done better.  

[Trey]

I did not like the way Vance and Gibbs treated the man who was suffering from ptsd, who was rescued along with Sloane.  They should have warned him they were going to play a recording of the voice of the man who tortured him, instead of just springing it on him like that.

[GHScorpiosRule]

BORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRING. Not to mention sooo unoriginal.

The only positive I got out of this is how yummy Mark Harmon looked in his close up in the scenes with Jack, when he was talking about Shannon and Kelly.

What?

[enoughcats]

1 hour ago, slothgirl said:

The dude had diplomatic immunity.

So, what is the dude's citizenship status:  Brit or Afghan?  Can Britain extend diplomatic immunity to a citizen of another country.  Back when some UN types were getting away with hits and runs in NYC (decades ago) the DI got a lot of negative publicity because it encompassed family members (IIRC).  
To this the current status of British citizens who went to Syria to fight with ISIS/ISIL really doesn't seem to be answered if they retained their citizenship and returned to Great Britain having been enemy combatents.  The Brit ? ambassador who accompanied him must have him as British in her world.  What about the rest of his story?

1 hour ago, slothgirl said:

Gibbs: I've never told anyone about this before

Me: And yet, everyone knows anyway.

Yes, Slothgirl,  you lead a chorus.

Does Gibbs not know how many people know?

55 minutes ago, Trey said:

I did not like the way Vance and Gibbs treated the man who was suffering from ptsd, who was rescued along with Sloane.  They should have warned him they were going to play a recording of the voice of the man who tortured him, instead of just springing it on him like that.

Was the PTSD guy in assisted living?  If so, his Doctors/helpers would probably have done this a whole lot differently.

[Trey]

6 minutes ago, enoughcats said:

Does Gibbs not know how many people know?

Do people really know, or do they just strongly suspect? I'm pretty sure Vance knows.

[Katy M]

41 minutes ago, enoughcats said:

So, what is the dude's citizenship status:  Brit or Afghan?

IIRC, they said he was born in England, so I would imagine that is his citizenship.  They said he went to Afghanistan to do something, I forgot what exactly, and I'm sure the embassy was unaware of the extracurricular torture he was taking part in.

[HurricaneVal]

15 hours ago, Ohmo said:

and it's weird to see an actor who was a Bones squintern as a baddie

OMG.  That's where I know him from!  THANK YOU.

 

5 hours ago, JackONeill said:

The dude had diplomatic immunity.

I don't think he had diplomatic immunity so much as he had the protective cloak of that immunity so long as he stayed in the embassy, transported in an official embassy vehicle/plane, or was physically escorted by the ambassador.  In that way the immunity extends to him, but isn't his to begin with.  Kind of like how Julian Assange is untouchable so long as he stays in the Ecuadoran embassy in London.

[TheGreenWave]

1 hour ago, Trey said:

I did not like the way Vance and Gibbs treated the man who was suffering from ptsd, who was rescued along with Sloane.  They should have warned him they were going to play a recording of the voice of the man who tortured him, instead of just springing it on him like that.

Oh, this was so bad to watch!  I couldn't believe they didn't have his doctors/therapists with him before they triggered him (I guess since he has PTSD and Alzheimer's it didn't concern them?!?).  There was a lot bad with this episode (such promise with the fun first date scene), but this was the worst of it.  Speaking of bad....

16 hours ago, pally said:

How many times does this make for Vance getting kidnapped?  

I'm sort of unclear as to why he got kidnapped here - he led the rescue operation...but that was it, correct?  It's not like Vance was behind the USG's Afghanistan "war plan" or something more senior.  It seemed so damn random for him to say to Vance that he had been like waiting for this day to happen or whatever.  Whaaat????  This is the first we've heard of the "Monster" right??

[mommalib]

I liked when Jimmy said Gibbs is a big dog but Vance is a bigger dog.

[JackONeill]

54 minutes ago, Trey said:

Do people really know, or do they just strongly suspect? I'm pretty sure Vance knows.

And Abby knows since she did the testing on the bullet. But, In Gibbs' (Harmon's) mind, Abby no longer exists, so end of that line.

[Ohmo]

3 hours ago, slothgirl said:

Gibbs: I've never told anyone about this before

Me: And yet, everyone knows anyway.

I took that to mean that Jack is the only one at NCIS who knows that killing Pedro hasn't brought him the satisfaction or closure that Gibbs thought it would.  People at NCIS know that he killed Pedro, but I'm not sure Gibbs has shared the thought that it hasn't brought him the closure that he expected from it.

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 hours ago, slothgirl said:

 

Gibbs: I've never told anyone about this before

Me: And yet, everyone knows anyway.

 

A lot of people may suspect; a few may know, but Gibbs never told anyone else what he did, except for this mother-in-law, Shannon's mother. Guess he forgot he did tell at least one other person. And in "Hiatus," when Jennie tells Ducky that Gibbs had a wife and child who were murdered, Ducky said that Gibbs would not have let the person responsible, live. Still, semantics.

1 hour ago, enoughcats said:

 

Does Gibbs not know how many people know?

 

 

I'm sure he's aware a lot of people suspect. He's never confirmed their suspicions.

1 minute ago, Ohmo said:

I took that to mean that Jack is the only one at NCIS who knows that killing Pedro hasn't brought him the satisfaction or closure that Gibbs thought it would.  People at NCIS know that he killed Pedro, but I'm not sure Gibbs has shared the thought that it hasn't brought him the closure that he expected from it.

No, he also told Shannon's mother it didn't bring him the satisfaction he thought it would; just as killing whoever she did, would not bring her peace.

[Ohmo]

1 hour ago, TheGreenWave said:

'm sort of unclear as to why he got kidnapped here - he led the rescue operation...but that was it, correct?  It's not like Vance was behind the USG's Afghanistan "war plan" or something more senior.  It seemed so damn random for him to say to Vance that he had been like waiting for this day to happen or whatever.  Whaaat????  This is the first we've heard of the "Monster" right??

Jack did say that after Mansould? figured out that her team had no actionable intel that he tortured all of them just for the heck of it.  I thought Mansould was intimating that he was kidnapping Vance because Vance was the hero that rescued Jack and thus spoiled Mansould's "fun."

[WendyM]

1 hour ago, JackONeill said:

And Abby knows since she did the testing on the bullet. But, In Gibbs' (Harmon's) mind, Abby no longer exists, so end of that line.

Thank you! I thought I remembered a Meaningful Look passing between My Boyfriend Mark Harmon and Abby back in the day, after she did the bullet testing.

And here's what not paying close attention gets me: I thought that was CLAY's voice in the bar (as Jack was first reacting) and I thought, "Wow! He's alive! How did they keep this from us? Bishop will be SO RELIEVED!"

Edited May 23, 2018 by WendyM
I forgot how close Bishop and Clay were! How COULD I?

[TheGreenWave]

23 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

Jack did say that after Mansould? figured out that her team had no actionable intel that he tortured all of them just for the heck of it.  I thought Mansould was intimating that he was kidnapping Vance because Vance was the hero that rescued Jack and thus spoiled Mansould's "fun."

Yep -  like after one week of torture, he figured that they didn't know anything and did it for fun (because they were infidels?).  Anyway, I can't believe this guy would risk his stellar humanitarian reputation to kidnap the head of NCIS because the rescued Jack and the other guy as part of a rescue unit.  But, NCIS does like a good kidnapping story (Gibbs and McGee).

[Katy M]

25 minutes ago, TheGreenWave said:

Yep -  like after one week of torture, he figured that they didn't know anything and did it for fun (because they were infidels?).  Anyway, I can't believe this guy would risk his stellar humanitarian reputation to kidnap the head of NCIS because the rescued Jack and the other guy as part of a rescue unit.  But, NCIS does like a good kidnapping story (Gibbs and McGee).

At least Gibbs and McGee made sense though.  They went into hostile territory and didn't make it out.  Nobody came to kidnap them because they happened to see them and had been wanting revenge for years, and well, sure, let's just kidnap this guy and take him back to the Middle East (I assume) because reasons.

[slothgirl]

5 hours ago, Katy M said:

I definitely think it could/would be waived under these circumstances. But, I really think diplomatic channels would be gone through, and then if that didn't work, a court order sought BEFORE you arrest him. Yeah, he'd probably have gotten away, but I still think that's how it would be done.  Or you would try to stop him from leaving the country via subtler means while going through all that.  Problem with the plane. Request for questioning on other matter. Have an agent as the pilot fly him in the wrong direction so you're not leaving and then apologize for the mixup if immunity isn't waived.

Technically, there WERE trying to get the plane delayed... Gibbs told someone to tell them to "hold it, but don't tell them why".

Also, technically, if he isn't even who he says he is, then i don't see how any DI would cover him. The agents can just say "We didn't arrest Mr Golden Boy, we arrested Mr Big Baddie.. oh wait.. you're telling me they are the same person? Oops.. our bad"

Meanwhile the PTB haven't a leg to stand on because the guy they think is protected by DI doesn't even exist.

3 hours ago, TheGreenWave said:

I'm sort of unclear as to why he got kidnapped here - he led the rescue operation...but that was it, correct?  It's not like Vance was behind the USG's Afghanistan "war plan" or something more senior.  It seemed so damn random for him to say to Vance that he had been like waiting for this day to happen or whatever.  Whaaat????  This is the first we've heard of the "Monster" right??

Vance led the rescue during which all of whassisname's "brothers" were killed by the team. Also, whassisname probably knows at this point the cover is blown, so there's no point in worrying about giving it away and maintaining the fiction of charity hero.

Edited May 23, 2018 by slothgirl

[Katy M]

3 minutes ago, slothgirl said:

Also, technically, if he isn't even who he says he is, then i don't see how any DI would cover him. The agents can just say "We didn't arrest Mr Golden Boy, we arrested Mr Big Baddie.. oh wait.. you're telling me they are the same person? Oops.. our bad"

Meanwhile the PTB haven't a leg to stand on because the guy they think is protected by DI doesn't even exist.

I'm just saying I would think this is something they would want to prove, at least to some extent beyond voice recognition by a trauma survivor, before they arrested him. They really had nothing, unless I missed something.  I'll admit I kind of zoned out during the second half.  I wasn't all that interested.

[Clanstarling]

4 hours ago, TheGreenWave said:

Oh, this was so bad to watch!  I couldn't believe they didn't have his doctors/therapists with him before they triggered him (I guess since he has PTSD and Alzheimer's it didn't concern them?!?).  There was a lot bad with this episode (such promise with the fun first date scene), but this was the worst of it.  Speaking of bad....

He was completely non-responsive, likely due to his Alzheimer's. It was horrible that they just played that for him. In his condition, there's no good way to sooth him, even if he didn't have PTSD on top of it. Plus they now have two unreliable witnesses - no court in the world would take either of their reactions as valid evidence.

3 hours ago, Ohmo said:

I took that to mean that Jack is the only one at NCIS who knows that killing Pedro hasn't brought him the satisfaction or closure that Gibbs thought it would.  People at NCIS know that he killed Pedro, but I'm not sure Gibbs has shared the thought that it hasn't brought him the closure that he expected from it.

That's what I was going to say too. Others may know, but she's the only one he's told directly - which is another level of trust.

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

I'm just saying I would think this is something they would want to prove, at least to some extent beyond voice recognition by a trauma survivor, before they arrested him. They really had nothing, unless I missed something.  I'll admit I kind of zoned out during the second half.  I wasn't all that interested.

They had nothing. But now that he's kidnapped Vance, they've got something.

[HurricaneVal]

4 hours ago, TheGreenWave said:

Anyway, I can't believe this guy would risk his stellar humanitarian reputation

I think the guy is really just a huge psycho who gets off on the torture, so his "work" is motivated by his personal jollies, and not the politics.  So it is a compulsion to him, his humanitarian work is all just a huge cover story for his depravity.

 

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

He was completely non-responsive, likely due to his Alzheimer's. It was horrible that they just played that for him. In his condition, there's no good way to sooth him, even if he didn't have PTSD on top of it.

Yeah.  This scene really bothered me.  They were torturing this guy the same as the monster in Afghanistan did, only they weren't beating him to do it.  The fact the patient would be locked into that mental state without any soothing recourse until something broke the cycle was just awful.  I like to think I saw a little of that in the expression on Gibbs's face as he leaned into the guy after he broke down.

[secnarf]

8 hours ago, Trey said:

I did not like the way Vance and Gibbs treated the man who was suffering from ptsd, who was rescued along with Sloane.  They should have warned him they were going to play a recording of the voice of the man who tortured him, instead of just springing it on him like that.

Well, if they had warned him that would have defeated the purpose, since they needed him to "identify" the voice. It's like doing a line-up with one person, being told that the one person in the line-up is the criminal, and then asking you if the criminal is in the room. There is a reason why line-ups aren't done like that.

They still could have handled it better, but given their goals, it was going to suck regardless.

[Katy M]

8 minutes ago, secnarf said:

Well, if they had warned him that would have defeated the purpose, since they needed him to "identify" the voice. It's like doing a line-up with one person, being told that the one person in the line-up is the criminal, and then asking you if the criminal is in the room. There is a reason why line-ups aren't done like that.

They still could have handled it better, but given their goals, it was going to suck regardless.

But, that ID was never going to hold up in court anyway.  The whole thing was absolutely pointless.  He could have been traumatized to the point where he would have reacted that way to any British accents.  Maybe if they had played him several different voices with British accents, then it would have meant something if that was the only one he reacted to.

[MDL]

14 hours ago, Katy M said:

But, that ID was never going to hold up in court anyway.  The whole thing was absolutely pointless.  He could have been traumatized to the point where he would have reacted that way to any British accents.  Maybe if they had played him several different voices with British accents, then it would have meant something if that was the only one he reacted to.

I don't think that Gibbs and Vance were looking for something that would hold up in any court except their own- the court of "vengence for killed family members".

[Katy M]

40 minutes ago, MDL said:

I don't think that Gibbs and Vance were looking for something that would hold up in any court except their own- the court of "vengence for killed family members".

I get that, but it shouldn't have even held up for them. There are rape victims who are raped by another race who then become terrified of anyone of that race. Or child abuse victims who are terrified of anyone with a mustache.  Add to that, that this was someone with dementia, and I just don't know what they were thinking.

[Trey]

15 hours ago, secnarf said:

Well, if they had warned him that would have defeated the purpose, since they needed him to "identify" the voice. It's like doing a line-up with one person, being told that the one person in the line-up is the criminal, and then asking you if the criminal is in the room. There is a reason why line-ups aren't done like that.

They still could have handled it better, but given their goals, it was going to suck regardless.

I don't think that would have defeated the purpose.  They didn't have to say they were going to play the voice of his torturer.  They could have told him they would play some voices for him and see if he recognized them and that it might be very stressful for him. And asked  if he was up to it.  Or, better yet, asked his doctor if he would be able to handle it.

[Gothish520]

How many times has this show resorted to someone being kidnapped or trapped as the season cliffhanger? I feel like it's been a lot of times.

Also, are we supposed to care that much about Jack? I just have not warmed up to her. I don't hate her or anything, but her story being a season finale seems forced. Although I did like the date set up and her interactions with Bishop.

Speaking of Bishop, what happened to the possibility of her and Torres? I want to see that happen.

Watching Gibbs waltzing into the lab so easy-breezy in the last two episodes just makes me laugh. 

Kasie - the jury's still out for me. I liked her in her first appearance, but these last two episodes, eh, not so much. I love quirky, but hyper and angsty can get old quick.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Gothish520

[JessDVD]

I don't really care about Jack or it sounds like about 98% of this episode so I think I'll skip it but can someone verify that the "cliffhanger" is Vance being "kidnapped"? I'm sure we'll all be sitting here on tenterhooks all summer anxiously discussing if Vance will be OK.

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, JessDVD said:

I don't really care about Jack or it sounds like about 98% of this episode so I think I'll skip it but can someone verify that the "cliffhanger" is Vance being "kidnapped"? I'm sure we'll all be sitting here on tenterhooks all summer anxiously discussing if Vance will be OK.

Yes.  Hes been kidnapped.  He was beaten up first.  He's on a plane.  I assume headed to the middle east.

[Ohmo]

59 minutes ago, Trey said:

They could have told him they would play some voices for him and see if he recognized them and that it might be very stressful for him. And asked  if he was up to it. 

I can see why they didn't do it that way.  Just asking someone if he recognizes a voice would be too broad, I'd think, for someone with dementia.  They needed him to recognize the voice and tie it to specific times and behaviors, which he would have been unlikely able to do unless prompted.  I agree with secnav1.  The situation was not ideal, but he was the only available witness who could corroborate Jack's ID, and no doctor would have ever allowed it if Gibbs and Vance had asked.  It was a plot point designed to move fiction along.  The whole scenario would never have occurred IRL.

[ForReal]

On 5/23/2018 at 7:56 AM, slothgirl said:

I really do wish it had turned out Jack had been wrong.  

That's too much subtle nuance for this show. It's always been hamfisted about relationships and dark past crap. I agree that Jack's plan was to kill him and Gibbs plan was to pull out a save of her soul at the last minute cause THAT"S never been done before on this show. The man should be a priest.

I knew Jack couldn't be wrong because the show wouldn't go there, but it sure seemed more realistic that she would be wrong. I had a hard time buying it. I realize she's not a field agent, but physically attacking the guy seemed like the worst strategic move she could make. Has she learned nothing from criminal investigation, and does she trust no one's professional judgment (thinking Gibbs here, not Vance) in going after the guy in a more concerted way?

I frowned and shook my head over how they treated the PTSD patient -- no doctor should have allowed them unsupervised access -- and I sighed and rolled my eyes at Vance getting kidnapped. I don't dislike Vance, but I'm not up for worrying about him getting tortured.

I always thought that Gibbs had never confirmed to anyone that he intentionally shot the man who killed his family. He seemed to acknowledge it more to some people than others, but I don't recall him telling anyone outright what he'd done (except the ex-MIL). It did strike me that perhaps one of the reasons that Jack hasn't dated was because it would be a bit awkward to get, uh, cozy with someone and have him see the scars with no warning. Yet not something to chat about over dinner and drinks. But Gibbs will understand. Because I think it's headed that way.

[Pyanfar]

Had to re-watch before I could be sure.  I think they retconned Gibbs' age again.  According to last night's headstone, he's now 63 or 64.  Have to check the other episodes, but I think he was younger on the earlier headstones.

[RobertDeSneero]

11 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

How many times has this show resorted to someone being kidnapped or trapped as the season cliffhanger? I feel like it's been a lot of times.

That's kind of how cliffhangers work. 

The alternative would probably be something like killing Abby off, Kate-style.