Lost In Transition - General Discussion

[Meredith Quill]

Discuss Lost In Transition Here!

[Guest]

Things can get a little murky as to the proper pronoun usage with respect to the transitioning partners on this show. All participants should be referred to by their chosen names and pronouns.

We know that the transgender women's spouses often refer to them by their original names or as he or him.  If you are directly quoting, it's okay.  A good idea is to use the word, "spouse" in lieu of "husband."

We recognize that for many people this is a new area and the language and terminology can be confusing. Intent matters. You won't be dinged for a post that is otherwise okay but messes up a pronoun. A post that purposefully misgenders is a big no.

Please see the post below this one for an overview of the GLAAD Media Reference Guide and give specific attention to the derogatories that are most certainly not allowed here. 

If you have any questions, please PM me or 17WheatThins. 

[Guest]

Hi Everyone ---

At PTV we use the GLAAD Media Reference Guide to help us when talking about transgender persons.  This is the policy here at PTV.  (You can find more information here also.)

Some key excerpts for your posting reference:

Glossary of Terms - Transgender

Sex:  The classification of a person as male or female. At birth, infants are assigned a sex, usually based on the appearance of their external anatomy. (This is what is written on the birth certificate.) A person's sex, however, is actually a combination of bodily characteristics including: chromosomes, hormones, internal and external reproductive organs, and secondary sex characteristics.

Gender Identity:  A person's internal, deeply held sense of their gender. For transgender people, their own internal gender identity does not match the sex they were assigned at birth. Most people have a gender identity of man or woman (or boy or girl). For some people, their gender identity does not fit neatly into one of those two choices (see non-binary and/or genderqueer below.) Unlike gender expression (see below) gender identity is not visible to others.

Gender Expression:  External manifestations of gender, expressed through a person's name, pronouns, clothing, haircut, behavior, voice, and/or body characteristics. Society identifies these cues as masculine and feminine, although what is considered masculine or feminine changes over time and varies by culture. Typically, transgender people seek to align their gender expression with their gender identity, rather than the sex they were assigned at birth.

Sexual Orientation:  Describes a person's enduring physical, romantic, and/or emotional attraction to another person. Gender identity and sexual orientation are not the same. Transgender people may be straight, lesbian, gay, bisexual, or queer. For example, a person who transitions from male to female and is attracted solely to men would typically identify as a straight woman. 

Transgender (adj.):  An umbrella term for people whose gender identity and/or gender expression differs from what is typically associated with the sex they were assigned at birth. People under the transgender umbrella may describe themselves using one or more of a wide variety of terms - including transgender. Some of those terms are defined below. Use the descriptive term preferred by the person. Many transgender people are prescribed hormones by their doctors to bring their bodies into alignment with their gender identity. Some undergo surgery as well. But not all transgender people can or will take those steps, and a transgender identity is not dependent upon physical appearance or medical procedures.

Transsexual (adj.):  An older term that originated in the medical and psychological communities. Still preferred by some people who have permanently changed - or seek to change - their bodies through medical interventions, including but not limited to hormones and/or surgeries. Unlike transgender, transsexual is not an umbrella term. Many transgender people do not identify as transsexual and prefer the word transgender. It is best to ask which term a person prefers. If preferred, use as an adjective: transsexual woman or transsexual man.

Trans:  Used as shorthand to mean transgender or transsexual - or sometimes to be inclusive of a wide variety of identities under the transgender umbrella. Because its meaning is not precise or widely understood, be careful when using it with audiences who may not understand what it means. Avoid unless used in a direct quote or in cases where you can clearly explain the term's meaning in the context of your story.

Cross-dresser:  While anyone may wear clothes associated with a different sex, the term cross-dresser is typically used to refer to men who occasionally wear clothes, makeup, and accessories culturally associated with women. Those men typically identify as heterosexual. This activity is a form of gender expression and not done for entertainment purposes. Cross-dressers do not wish to permanently change their sex or live full-time as women. Replaces the term "transvestite".

Transition:  Altering one's birth sex is not a one-step procedure; it is a complex process that occurs over a long period of time. Transition can include some or all of the following personal, medical, and legal steps: telling one's family, friends, and co-workers; using a different name and new pronouns; dressing differently; changing one's name and/or sex on legal documents; hormone therapy; and possibly (though not always) one or more types of surgery. The exact steps involved in transition vary from person to person. Avoid the phrase "sex change".

Sex Reassignment Surgery (SRS):  Also called Gender Confirmation Surgery (GCS). Refers to doctor-supervised surgical interventions, and is only one small part of transition (see transition above). Avoid the phrase "sex change operation." Do not refer to someone as being "pre-op" or "post-op." Not all transgender people choose to, or can afford to, undergo medical surgeries.

TRANSGENDER NAMES, PRONOUN USAGE & DESCRIPTIONS

In 2015, The Washington Post updated its style guide to include the singular they to describe people who "identify as neither male nor female." It is increasingly common for people who have a nonbinary gender identity to use they/them as their pronoun.

Always use a transgender person's chosen name. Many transgender people are able to obtain a legal name change from a court. However, some transgender people cannot afford a legal name change or are not yet old enough to legally change their name. They should be afforded the same respect for their chosen name as anyone else who uses a name other than their birth name (e.g., celebrities).

Use the pronoun that matches the person's authentic gender. A person who identifies as a certain gender, whether or not that person has taken hormones or undergone surgery, should be referred to using the pronouns appropriate for that gender.

Defamatory Language:

Defamatory: "deceptive," "fooling," "pretending," "posing," "trap," or "masquerading" Gender identity is an integral part of a person's identity. Do not characterize transgender people as "deceptive," as "fooling" or "trapping" others, or as "pretending" to be, "posing" or "masquerading" as a man or a woman. Such descriptions are inaccurate, defamatory and insulting.

Defamatory: "tranny," "she-male," "he/she," "it," "shim" These words dehumanize transgender people and should not be used in mainstream media. The criteria for using these derogatory terms should be the same as those applied to vulgar epithets used to target other groups.

_________________________________

If you have any questions about these guidelines, please feel free to PM me.

Happy posting!

[Rabbittron]

I just watch this I'm sorry just a that I couldn't just get into it very very boring. I'd rather watch the Duggars and I hate them.

[Porkchop]

This is so sad, I don't know if I'll be able to watch it next week. There are no easy answers. Hearts are breaking.

[VioletNevermind]

I don’t want to be as interested in this show as I am because I believe that most of the participants will end up regretting taking part in it.  As instructive and informative as I think this show could be, I think TLC’s hamfisted, amateurish handling of issues like these will end up being detrimental to all involved.  I’m as accepting as I can possibly be about transgender individuals and I do believe that they should have the freedom to express themselves in any way they choose, just as the rest of us can, but I think this trashtastic network is the worst place for this show.  

Stacy and Les (Leslie).  First of all, Stacy seems like such a sweet, unassuming person.  If Les/Leslie is going to come out as transgender, she’s clearly in good hands with Stacy by her side.  I think this is true love, in whatever form it takes.

Jennifer and Larry (Lawren).  Jennifer is clearly bending over backwards to be understanding.  You can just feel the pain radiating from these two, especially Larry/Lawren.  She showers with her clothes on because she can’t deal with the pain of seeing reminders of her biological masculinity.  Bless her heart, I feel so sorry for her. 

Beverly and AJ (Karen).  I have no memory of this couple.  

Cindy and Troy (Lucy).  Although she isn’t exactly accepting of Troy’s/Lucy’s transition, Cindy tells it like it is and I have to give her credit for that.  I tend to reserve judgment on anyone’s relationship issues that don’t involve me, but I must admit that I can sympathize with Cindy.  As much as I’d be happy that my spouse was brave enough to live as their authentic self in a world that doesn’t often accept such things, I’d be furious if they came out after years of marriage.  My heart goes out to Cindy.  (Her friend needs to mind her own damn business.)

Edited May 21, 2018 by SuzyLee

[NinaH]

5 minutes ago, Porkchop said:

This is so sad, I don't know if I'll be able to watch it next week. There are no easy answers. Hearts are breaking.

Exactly right, no easy answers for any involved. I hate for anyone to be so unhappy with their “self” that they are miserable and especially suicidal. But springing it on your spouse, if they truly had no idea, isn’t fair either.  Even the wife of the lawyer, who seems incredibly loving and supportive, is struggling. 

[NinaH]

9 minutes ago, SuzyLee said:

I don’t want to be as interested in this show as I am because I believe that most of the participants will end up regretting taking part in it.  As instructive and informative as I think this show could be, I think TLC’s hamfisted, amateurish handling of issues like these will end up being detrimental to all involved.  I’m as accepting as I can possibly be about transgender individuals and I do believe that they should have the freedom to express themselves in any way they choose, just as the rest of us can, but I think this trashtastic network is the worst place for this show.  

Stacy and Les (Leslie).  First of all, Stacy seems like such a sweet, unassuming person.  If Les/Leslie is going to come out as transgender, she’s clearly in good hands with Stacy by her side.  I think this is true love, in whatever form it takes.

Jennifer and Larry (Lawren).  Jennifer is clearly bending over backwards to be understanding.  You can just feel the pain radiating from these two, especially Larry/Lawren.  She showers with her clothes on because she can’t deal with the pain of seeing reminders of her biological masculinity.  Bless her heart, I feel so sorry for her. 

Beverly and AJ (Karen).  I have no memory of this couple.  

Cindy and Troy (Lucy).  Although she isn’t exactly accepting of Troy’s/Lucy’s transition, Cindy tells it like it is and I have to give her credit for that.  I tend to reserve judgment on anyone’s relationship issues that don’t involve me, but I must admit that I can sympathize with Cindy.  As much as I’d be happy that my spouse was brave enough to live as their authentic self in a world that doesn’t often accept such things, I’d be furious if they came out after years of marriage.  My heart goes out to Cindy.  (Her friends needs to mind her own damn business.)

Very well said, all of it esp the TLC part. That is not a network you want any part of if you have a real, authentic issue you want to work through. 

I am really worried about Larry/Lawren, she seems full of self loathing and even when she fully transitions, the damage may be too deep to overcome. But Jennifer seems like she’s trying to navigate this and not too concerned about labels (which if that’s what you need, is fine with me) or it making sense to anyone other than to them and their kids. 

[Christi]

I felt sadness and anxiety this whole episode...the sweet guy (as of this show) doesnt stand a chance in the gun shop...?

[Guest]

22 hours ago, SuzyLee said:

but I think this trashtastic network is the worst place for this show.

Agreed. And because I am a hopeless idiot, I thought that maybe just once TLC could suspend its formulaic "hey, everyone sit on a couch/in a car/in a restaurant and have stilted awkward conversations -- and bonus points if you can bring along a shit-pot-stirring-friend" nonsense they impose on every single "reality" show on its network this time. But nope! Shame on me for thinking they might actually make a more documentary-like series for this sensitive subject.

I eye-rolled through the scene where Stacy and Leslie were shopping in the boutique—where, I assume, they could not afford to buy more expensive clothes to fully outfit Les as she navigates her transition. They live paycheck-to-paycheck! There's no way to realistically assume they would ever shop at a store like that—but good old TLC can't be bothered to get permission to film at a Walmart (or whatever big-box-retailer was near them) so instead, probably gave them some walking around money and told them to go to a local store where permission to film was easier to obtain. (Leslie did look really good in the outfit she modeled though.) 

I forget the name of the friend of Cindy's who came in to stir the pot with Troy (Lucy) but, I think in a real situation, Troy (Lucy) would have asked her to get the hell out of the house—because I know I would. It's not of her business to harangue someone about their marriage in the person's own home. But, drama! 

TLC really sucks.

21 hours ago, Christi said:

I felt sadness and anxiety this whole episode...the sweet guy (as of this show) doesnt stand a chance in the gun shop...?

Co-sign on that one. 

[LilaFowler]

I felt such a sense of dread for Leslie when she was walking into that redneck bar to meet her camo-clad co-worker.

[NinaH]

9 hours ago, LilaFowler said:

I felt such a sense of dread for Leslie when she was walking into that redneck bar to meet her camo-clad co-worker.

Me too, unless the co-worker was instructed by production to give off a negative vibe, and a cliffhanger so we will tune in next week. I hope that’s what it is. Leslie and wife seem like such sweet, kind, unassuming people, I can’t bear the idea that anyone will be mean to them. When one of them said that Leslie’s dad stripped her down as a kid and locked her out of the house, that broke my heart.  I hope the dad pays or has paid dearly for that. 

[surveyandprotect1]

I liked this show but didn’t love it. 2 out of the 3 couples on this first episode seemed legitimate. It’s hard to pinpoint exactly what seemed off or just not fully believable but Troy/Cindy just didn’t come across as real. They may not have been the best to cast. 

 

I want to know why they cast all 30-50 year old MTF in existing relationships? I would have blended different age groups and MTF along with FTM. The interest level in the show (ratings) increase dramatically if its able to attract a wider viewing demographic. Transitioning at 10-15 years old is totally different than 25-30 or 40-50 or single or married or kids or no kids. Do you think a 10-15 year old viewer either interested in the subject or transgender themselves is going to watch this show or will they watch I am Jazz?

[Pepper Mostly]

On 5/20/2018 at 11:11 PM, SuzyLee said:

I don’t want to be as interested in this show as I am because I believe that most of the participants will end up regretting taking part in it.  As instructive and informative as I think this show could be, I think TLC’s hamfisted, amateurish handling of issues like these will end up being detrimental to all involved.  I’m as accepting as I can possibly be about transgender individuals and I do believe that they should have the freedom to express themselves in any way they choose, just as the rest of us can, but I think this trashtastic network is the worst place for this show.  

 

I agree completely. I do wish TLC would hire some new talent and try to handle some of these issues sensitively and compassionately. Instead of the prurient, leering, 12 year old way they do now. Coming out as transgender is a huge deal and I was near tears watching Les and Larry try to explain how they felt, not to mention their bewildered but loving wives.  I loved Stacy and Jennifer. I can't even imagine what they must be feeling. One of my son's friends whom I've known since childhood, is transgender. How her parents must feel I can't fathom.

On 5/21/2018 at 2:57 AM, Giant Misfit said:

Agreed. And because I am a hopeless idiot, I thought that maybe just once TLC could suspend its formulaic "hey, everyone sit on a couch/in a car/in a restaurant and have stilted awkward conversations -- and bonus points if you can bring along a shit-pot-stirring-friend" nonsense they impose on every single "reality" show on its network this time. But nope! Shame on me for thinking they might actually make a more documentary-like series for this sensitive subject.

I eye-rolled through the scene where Stacy and Leslie were shopping in the boutique—where, I assume, they could not afford to buy more expensive clothes to fully outfit Les as she navigates her transition. They live paycheck-to-paycheck! There's no way to realistically assume they would ever shop at a store like that—but good old TLC can't be bothered to get permission to film at a Walmart (or whatever big-box-retailer was near them) so instead, probably gave them some walking around money and told them to go to a local store where permission to film was easier to obtain. (Leslie did look really good in the outfit she modeled though.) 

I forget the name of the friend of Cindy's who came in to stir the pot with Troy (Lucy) but, I think in a real situation, Troy (Lucy) would have asked her to get the hell out of the house—because I know I would. It's not of her business to harangue someone about their marriage in the person's own home. But, drama! 

TLC really sucks.

Co-sign on that one. 

Oh the shopping scene was CRINGEWORTHY. "I"m so sorry, we don't have men's sizes". Sweet tapdancing Jesus, TLC. Give us a damn break.

Cindy's friend is Wanda, and holy shit, what a nasty unpleasant shit stirrer she is. Fun fact, Wanda. It is none of your goddamn business. Butt out.

[configdotsys]

Wanda is a bitch. She has no business talking to Troy about the couple's personal situation. Troy should have walked away and refused to engage with Wanda. These conversations between Troy and Cindy should have taken place without other people there.  I will say that I think Troy is wrong to dismiss Cindy's reaction as unnecessary. I get his struggle for years was rough but you cannot discount the feelings of the person whose life was upended by this news. They have to try to work through this together.  

There is NO way that Les should have come out to friends in a bar. He needs to save up some cash and leave town to try to find a job in a city. They need to get out of small town, USA. That couple should have a Go Fund Me campaign to relocate. 

Jennifer is so committed to Larry and trying her best to cope by putting her own feelings on the back burner and tending to Larry's fragile state. The kids are okay with it, they are not struggling financially, and still Larry seems on the edge of a breakdown of some kind even though he has all the support in the world at home and the added bonus of being a lawyer that does not have to depend on a boss for an income. It's excruciating to watch the struggle.

Edited May 23, 2018 by configdotsys
typo

[configdotsys]

A nervous Stacy introduces Leslie to her work friends whilst Cindy suggests seeking counseling; after 22 years of marriage, AJ tells Beverly he's transgender.

[configdotsys]

My heart breaks for Larry. 

[Christi]

They have had I AM JAZZ for several seasons, and Jazz is a much younger trans persion.  After watching that for so long, its interesting (in a really sad way) to see how older people handle this issue.

[GoldaVining]

I was not expecting this show to be as good as it is. I am impressed. It was truly heartbreaking. I'm already invested in some of these folks after only one episode. I see by the comments some people think TLC handled it rather poorly (meaning in the usual style of TLC! ) but I think it was done a little bit more thoughtfully than the usual TLC offerings.

I think Jennifer has the hardest row to hoe. She is not only dealing with the transition of her spouse, but she is waking up every morning hoping Lawren will not choose to die that day. Lawren has already attempted suicide in the past. I can't imagine this level of stress. Luckily, they seem to have true unconditional love between them. The kids also don't seem to be freaking out, but they may be walking on eggshells just hoping Lawren will live through the day. This is brutal. I think Lawren needs to be in some kind of treatment program before there is another suicide attempt.

Stacey and Leslie (like Jennifer and Lawren) also appear to enjoy unconditional love in their relationship. They seem like darlings, both of them, minus the bear hunting - was it bear they said? Really? Is that good eating? When I was broke I ate beans for dinner, but that's me, I can't skin a bear. Maybe they said deer. They live in Northern Washington, I think, which is right between Vancouver, British Columbia, and Portland, Oregon, A young couple moving through this early phase of transition would find both of those cities pretty embracing/welcoming/easy going from my experience. We haven't seen yet if their community will embrace them or reject them. Depending how episode 2 goes, they might consider moving a few minutes North or South, although those two cities might not be in their budget range.

Leslie's story about being stripped and thrown naked out onto the street as a child makes me want to call the cops. Can you imagine this behavior in 2018? What are the limitations? How many years can we go back? Charges filed. Ugh. I have a 7-year-old son. I know I could accept my child being transgender, no worries. I am the mom and love my child no matter what. I can do that for sure. But my husband? That would be really hard. I know I could accept him as her as an individual... but still as us? I don't know. Stacey is a good role model for me for the way she loves her spouse unconditionally. She is trying to see if she can accept this new marriage format, but she is willing to try. And pregnant at the same time? Wow.

Lucy has had a long isolated life and is trying to grab some happiness and finally feel at peace so late in life. Cindy, the aerospace engineer, is talking on camera about how much she loves penis. Please find somebody else, both of you.

Wanda needs to go home. Yuck.

[suzeecat]

Cindy and Troy/Lucy are going to have a terrible struggle to find a compromise.  I can only see them growing to hate each other - Cindy hating Troy/Lucy because he won't act like her husband anymore and Troy/Lucy hating Cindy for not allowing her to be who she is.  This is a situation where I don't think love can conquer all. 

I have some sympathy for the friends/neighbors/co-workers being filmed during the reveal.  That's got to be quite shocking and takes a period of adjustment, similar to getting to know someone brand new. 

[IvySpice]

I was expecting this show to be way more trashy and contrived than it turned out to be. Yes, the staged shopping trip and Wanda at the barbecue were forced. But the stories of families trying to adjust are moving, sad, and beautiful. I hope that in a crisis, I could bring that level of unconditional love for my spouse that Jennifer and Stacy display, but I don't know what that would be like. I might want to stay married but be platonic partners.

Quote

Troy is wrong to dismiss Cindy's reaction as unnecessary.

Agreed. If Troy/Lucy was concerned about how this affected Cindy, it didn't come across in this episode. She seemed to be more concerned about keeping a partner and maybe a sugar mommy, versus being concerned about Cindy's happiness as well as her own.

If there is such a thing as trans-dar, Troy didn't ping it for me. "I feel like a teenage girl!" I've been a teenage girl, and I just didn't recognize a fellow traveler in Troy. He just seemed creepy and gross.

[DNR]

I’ve only watched episode 1 so far and to me , these husbands who want to transition look very similar to each other ...almost like they’re related and could be brothers or same fam  .  Jmo 

[PupCal]

I was really disappointed there weren't any trans guys (FtM); there's a lot to explore there- gay trans guys, trans guy with cis male partners from before they started transitioning, trans guy with female partners. (Personal shallow note: we also pick better names! Lawren is a dumb spelling.)

I am, of course, still gonna be watching! I've been through every season of Whitney Thore's show; I can handle this.

Edited May 25, 2018 by PupCal

[CraftyHazel]

I was very interested in this, having a FTM transgender person within my extended family.  I wish there had been both FTM and MTF people represented, and yes, a variety of ages, but so far I am watching.

My heart breaks for Leslie, coming out to his coworker in what looks to be a redneck-type bar.  I can't imagine how difficult that has to be for her...indeed, I can't imagine how strong you have to be to endure any of this!  Stacy seems like a perfect partner, though.

[Christi]

Jesus?

[VioletNevermind]

Stacy (wife of Leslie, who works at the gun shop) deserves a freaking medal for her incredibly positive, supportive attitude toward Leslie in her transition.  I understand that Leslie wants to start the process of changing her appearance as soon as possible for the sake of her mental health, but I definitely think that this isn’t the best time, with a new baby on the way and a tight budget to boot.  No easy answers here.

As accepting and supportive as I am of transgender people, I fear that I could not be so accepting of my husband (as he once was) transitioning.  For that reason, I don’t judge Cindy at all for her negative attitude and inability to accept Troy/Lucy.   Of course she’s upset!  As she said, she’s not a lesbian and she doesn’t want a sexual relationship with a woman.  Still, I hope Troy/Lucy is able to transition as smoothly as possible, even if it means sacrificing his relationship with Cindy.  The whole thing is sad all the way around.  I still say that agreeing to do this show was probably a terrible decision for all concerned.  

Edited May 28, 2018 by SuzyLee

[Porkchop]

I said last week that this show is so sad I don't know if I can watch it. But here I am again, so sad, so sad for these families ... there is no happy ending for any of these stories. My heart aches for the transgender men, but what they want for themselves is causing the destruction of the life of the women who love them. I believe most trans folks have known since childhood, so perhaps if society was more accepting they would've dealt with their situation instead of hiding it and misleading the women they courted and married and had children with. 

[CraftyHazel]

My heart goes out to both Lawren and Leslie, and Jennifer and Stacy have got to be two of the most loving, tolerant people alive.  I fear that Lawren's too emotionally fragile to be doing this show right now, and I hope it doesn't backfire on her.  And Leslie, wow...it just seems like her job situation and financial problems are only going to get worse, after the way she was treated at work.

As I mentioned, I have a FtM trans person in my family, and his partner (a woman) was completely, immediately accepting of the issue.  (At least, by all accounts.). That may have been because his partner was bisexual...or I guess, actually pansexual...to begin with, or maybe she is just as tolerant and loving as Jennifer and Stacy seem to be.

I don't judge Cindy for not wanting to remain with Troy if he chooses to transition and live as Lucy, but at the same time, I feel nothing but respect and admiration for Stacy and Jennifer for loving their partners in spite of their biology.

But yes...sad all around.  I watch because a) I'm easily hooked and b) it's an interesting, current topic.  But it hurts to watch, because I worry that there won't be any one of these participants happy after it's all said and done.

[ChristmasJones]

Count me in as wishing there was a FTM person on this show.  Something I personally find interesting is that it seems like, in general, there is more of an assumption that if a woman is married to a MTF transgender person that she should be OK with her once-husband becoming a woman.  But there is not a similar assumption, in general, that if a man's wife tells him she is FTM transgender, that he would then be OK with being married to a man.

(I know I am speaking in generalities here).

It makes me wonder if there are any marriages between men and FTM transgender people that last after the transition. Maybe hard to find such couples.

[PortaBella]

I really have enjoyed Beverly so far (halfway through episode #2). She was so candid when she was out on the town and seems kind and naïve. Her husband AND her daughter potentially transitioning. That’s a lot. You never know what a day will bring. 

[JocelynCavanaugh]

Lawren is very hard to watch. She seems on the verge of breaking down at all times. Despite having one of the most supportive spouses imaginable, it's like she doubts the support and is stuck in a mental spiral. That's understandable but not healthy! They need intensive therapy. 

I could not believe the other spouse (I think it was Troy/Lucy?) flipping out on the wife for her reaction. "That's not how you're supposed to react! This is why trans people don't come out!" Look, I can only imagine how hard it is to be one gender in your brain while your body presents as the opposite. I have a lot of sympathy and patience for that. But it's one thing to ask co-workers or friends or strangers to honor your gender identity; it is quite another to spring this on your straight spouse of 13 years. You can't be mad at her for not being thrilled! At least two of the [husbands] went into their marriages knowing good and well that they had gender dysphoria. It's an extremely tough issue but I think it's unfair not to acknowledge the deception they put those spouses through. Trans people deserve dignity and respect, but just like any other adults, they do have to own up to the consequences of their choices.

[bref]

Like Troy/Lucy, I thought A.J. was rather oblivious to his wife's pain as he blithely sat there saying that he cried before his wedding, didnt really enjoy his family, and "hated life." Jeeze, could you maybe be a *bit* more diplomatic? 

The other two couples have nothing but empathy from me. Everyone is basically trying to do the right thing. I do worry how fragile Lawren seems to be.

[Lizzing]

Stacy looks so damn familiar to me.  Has she done some other reality show?  Maybe looks like an actress that isn't pinging in my brain?

Bev came off as entirely clueless, rather than just "naive" as her friend put it.  The woman is over 40 years old and has never heard of transgender people until 3 years ago?  That's not "typical midwestern"; that's incurious stupidity (and an insult to midwesterners).

Otherwise, I agree with many here--this show is just sad, scary (for the mental and physical health of those transitioning), and I fear more of the 90DF-shit stirring friends (like Wanda) being brought in to "spice" things up.  It's one thing to stir the pot when there's just a gaggle of delusional people thinking that their obviously fake relationships are anything but fake, but there are real, tangible, life & death mental health issues in play here.

Edited May 28, 2018 by Lizzing

[Splithair]

35 minutes ago, Lizzing said:

Stacy looks so damn familiar to me.  Has she done some other reality show?  Maybe looks like an actress that isn't pinging in my brain?

She reminds me of Alyson Hannigan.

[Splithair]

49 minutes ago, bref said:

Like Troy/Lucy, I thought A.J. was rather oblivious to his wife's pain as he blithely sat there saying that he cried before his wedding, didnt really enjoy his family, and "hated life." Jeeze, could you maybe be a *bit* more diplomatic? 

The other two couples have nothing but empathy from me. Everyone is basically trying to do the right thing. I do worry how fragile Lawren seems to be.

Agree. There is something about Troy/Lucy that just seems off to me, but I can't put my finger on it. On the contrary, Cindy seems unabashedly real, as do the other couples, although I wonder what angle the producers are going for with AJ/Beverly.  AJ (sorry, I can't remember her name at the moment) barely spoke during this episode. And then Beverly reveals her son is also transgender, in a bar...while sitting with apparent strangers. Why wasn't that mentioned right at the beginning? What these couples are going through doesn't need the typical cliffhanger-drama treatment applied to it, imo.  

[bref]

I just realized I misgendered A.J., but in my defense, I am completely unsure where in the process she is; the show focused far more on Beverly tonight. 

[SunnyBeBe]

I am finding the show interesting.  As more and more people go public, I think we'll see this happening more and more in our communities.  And if it's not taboo, then, perhaps, less unsuspecting people will marry someone they did not suspect was secrectly transgender. 

I agree about how a spouse who get's tricked, might need some time to digest things.  They were not the one to hide their true self.  Granted, it may be understandable, but, pretending to be one person and then changing after many years of marriage, doesn't give you carte blanche rights to complete absolution, imo. 

Edited May 28, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[surveyandprotect1]

I’m interested to know if they will film with Beverly/AJ’s FTM child and bring that younger dynamic into the show? I think the production company got more than they originally cast with this family. This could easily be the most interesting couple on the show if they pull in the 3rd dynamic.

[Pepper Mostly]

Beverly, holy shit. She's going to the bar and downing shots, telling all these randos her business? Girl, get to a therapist, stat! She has a husband who's trans, a child who's trans, and she is in such denial she can barely admit such things exist unless she's hammered? And she's laughing and giggling in her talking heads like its the most hilarious thing ever? That poor woman is a mess.

I agree with all of you on Lawren. She's so fragile. Jennifer is a rock star. Its easy to see why they have such good friends--she's definitely someone I'd want by my side, in good times and bad. She's just lovely. I hope she's not neglecting herself in all this.

[NinaH]

1 hour ago, Pepper Mostly said:

Beverly, holy shit. She's going to the bar and downing shots, telling all these randos her business? Girl, get to a therapist, stat! She has a husband who's trans, a child who's trans, and she is in such denial she can barely admit such things exist unless she's hammered? And she's laughing and giggling in her talking heads like its the most hilarious thing ever? That poor woman is a mess.

I agree with all of you on Lawren. She's so fragile. Jennifer is a rock star. Its easy to see why they have such good friends--she's definitely someone I'd want by my side, in good times and bad. She's just lovely. I hope she's not neglecting herself in all this.

Jennifer is the best!  And I agree, I hope she’s not neglecting her own emotional & mental well-being. She’s a strong woman but she’s dealing with a ton of change and Lawren’s depression alone would be tough to deal with. Sometimes the strong ones get tired of having to be the sole person holding things together for everyone else. 

I told my husband that the other day, I get tired of being the strong one and the one to figure things out for the entire family and our issues are NOTHING in comparison to theirs.  I can’t imagine dealing with the multi layers of emotions transitioning demands, I honestly don’t think I have it in me at this point in my life. 

May God bless each of these families and give them the wisdom and understanding as they navigate these difficult times. 

[monagatuna]

On 5/27/2018 at 8:20 PM, SuzyLee said:

As accepting and supportive as I am of transgender people, I fear that I could not be so accepting of my husband (as he once was) transitioning.  For that reason, I don’t judge Cindy at all for her negative attitude and inability to accept Troy/Lucy.   Of course she’s upset!  As she said, she’s not a lesbian and she doesn’t want a sexual relationship with a woman.  Still, I hope Troy/Lucy is able to transition as smoothly as possible, even if it means sacrificing his relationship with Cindy.  The whole thing is sad all the way around.  I still say that agreeing to do this show was probably a terrible decision for all concerned.  

This show is heartbreaking for everyone involved. If you're a straight woman who marries a man who, years later, finds it a safe time to come out as trans, you have every right to mourn the loss of your partner. Some trans people call their given name their "dead name," because the person with that name doesn't exist anymore. In much the same way, I wonder if the cis partners who leave are grieving the loss of their partner--they loved the man they married, and as much as they may still love the person they married, that person is not a man. Not being a lesbian is okay--I think many straight couples would end up divorcing if one came out as trans.

Similarly, when watching this with my partner, we asked each other what we would do. Ultimately, we decided we'd probably stay together, but in her case she'd have a lot more trouble because she's only attracted to women. For my part, I'm not sure--I've known I was bi for many years, but after meeting her I don't think I could ever touch a man (or anyone else) again. It's difficult to even think about. And yet she and I are only talking in hypotheticals--it must be so much harder for people who are actually going through it and are 100% straight.

Slowly--glacially--we as a society are making the world a bit safer for trans people to come out in their younger years, hopefully before spouses and children are involved. Until then, we are going to see more couples like these on the show.

I have to admit, I think this is the most honest programming we've seen from TLC in years, maybe decades. In between the terribly fat people, the little people, the wedding dress buyers, the people with a million children and/or wives, and the fat dancer, all of whom have boring, uneventful, dreadfully dull lives, these are people with real problems. Their stories are compelling and honest and difficult and it's impossible not to empathize with them--both the transitioning person and their spouses, children, friends, and colleagues. I really truly wish every participant the best--even in the best-case scenario, transitioning has got to be extremely difficult.

[Lesia]

Quote

3 hours ago, Pepper Mostly said:

I hope she's not neglecting herself in all this.

 

Um, I think her weight shows she is neglecting herself.  Very sad, all of this.  

 

And i would react just like Cindy. I'm not a lesbian, and i would be devastated and pissed to hell if my boyfriend told me he was a woman.  I couldn't be with him.  She absolutely has a right to feel this way.  This causes immeasurable pain all around.

[configdotsys]

On 5/28/2018 at 1:53 AM, Lizzing said:

Stacy looks so damn familiar to me.  Has she done some other reality show?  Maybe looks like an actress that isn't pinging in my brain?

I don't know about Stacy, but Larry reminds me of Phil Mickelson. 

It's very strange: this episode was on demand a week ago. I watched it. Then today I see there were a bunch of new posts and I thought it was a new episode but when I checked On Demand, it's the same one I watched last week back to back with the first one. Strange.

[GoldaVining]

I can't believe the first words out of Leslie's gun shop co-worker/friend at the pub were "Are you happy?" I was worried it was going to be something awful and his first response is "Are you happy?" He is concerned for his friend's happiness first and foremost, over and above all other (valid) concerns. I love this guy! Are you happy? I'm happy! The relief flooded over me. I love you, Camo Hoodie Dude.

Beverly said she had never heard of such a thing as transgender. Nobody could be that obtuse except on purpose. The way she expresses herself is embarrassing.

[CraftyHazel]

6 hours ago, GoldaVining said:

I can't believe the first words out of Leslie's gun shop co-worker/friend at the pub were "Are you happy?" I was worried it was going to be something awful and his first response is "Are you happy?" He is concerned for his friend's happiness first and foremost, over and above all other (valid) concerns. I love this guy! Are you happy? I'm happy! The relief flooded over me. I love you, Camo Hoodie Dude.

Beverly said she had never heard of such a thing as transgender. Nobody could be that obtuse except on purpose. The way she expresses herself is embarrassing.

Yes!!  When her friend asked that question, I melted.  It's a response of tolerance and acceptance and support.  Leslie now has at least one person outside of Stacy who will have her back, and I'm glad for that...because I think she is going to need all the help she can get.

Not a big Beverly fan so far.  She acts willfully ignorant, and she sure talked a lot of personal stuff to a large group of people she seems to have just met.  She's not really considering how her behavior could impact the safety of her family.

Edited May 30, 2018 by Marmiarmo
Misgendered Leslie...my apologies.

[Jen Marie]

If my beloved husband came out with something like this, it would kill me. 

[Scarlett45]

On 5/27/2018 at 11:07 PM, ChristmasJones said:

Count me in as wishing there was a FTM person on this show.  Something I personally find interesting is that it seems like, in general, there is more of an assumption that if a woman is married to a MTF transgender person that she should be OK with her once-husband becoming a woman.  But there is not a similar assumption, in general, that if a man's wife tells him she is FTM transgender, that he would then be OK with being married to a man.

(I know I am speaking in generalities here).

It makes me wonder if there are any marriages between men and FTM transgender people that last after the transition. Maybe hard to find such couples.

(Bolding mine)

This is interesting and I think it’s multi layered. (I agree an FtM middled aged person would’ve been a great addition)

1. I don’t think we have as accurate numbers on FtM persons as we do MtF, I think a lot more FtM persons transition under the radar. 

2. I think that men have more rigid definitions of sexuality and romantic relationships than women do (for a variety of social reasons). I from my little bit of experience in the trans community- cis women are found to be more accepting of dating trans people (of all gender variants) than cis men are.

3. The wives of the persons transitioning have a lot to lose if these relationships end. Also this is because there are more social and financial benefits to having a long term partner for women than men. Ive only seen episode one, but Cindy is the only partner that has no children or entangled finances it looks like. 

 

This should be an interesting show. My heart breaks for everyone involved. Maybe in the next generation trans youth will be more accepted and people won’t have to wait until their life is half over to be their true self. 

[configdotsys]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

This should be an interesting show. My heart breaks for everyone involved. Maybe in the next generation trans youth will be more accepted and people won’t have to wait until their life is half over to be their true self. 

Amen.

[NinaH]

Troy’s wife’s pushy friend...it’s like she has ill-fitting dentures in. Very annoying. 

And speaking of Troy, he doesn’t get that his wife has every right to be pissed. That doesn’t mean she doesn’t (or won’t come around) support him doing what he needs to do for himself, but she doesn’t have to like the fact she was lied to and thought she would be growing old with him. The two aren’t mutually exclusive. I’d be pissed too at the thought of having to start over at her age and divvying up assets and being too old to recoup some of what she’ll have to part with.  

[millennium]

This show left me quaking with anger.

I'm transgender.   I am appalled by the examples TLC is parading before the public.   This show went out of its way to find four LIARS who didn't have the courage or decency to tell the person they allegedly loved and wanted to spent the rest of their lives with the most important thing about themselves.   Worse, they all seem like self-absorbed assholes.   If I were someone unfamiliar with gender dysphoria, I would probably come away with an extremely poor opinion of transgender people.   I would think they're all liars.  If they're willing to deceive the women they love, what other horrible things are they capable of?  How can you trust any of them?

Leslie seems like a fucking idiot.   First, she decides she wants to live her life as female, potentially destroying their little, already impoverished family, and then she goes and impregnates her wife?   An act of selfishness and stupidity eclipsed only by the ambush of her best friend at the Redneck Pool Hall.   Forget for a moment that only someone with a deathwish would attempt a stunt like that, but what an unforgivable way to treat a friend.   "So, are we cool?"  Fuck you, Leslie.   Oh and you do NOT deserve Stacy.   That poor girl is a saint. 

On top of that, Leslie plans on placing the whole family at risk of homelessness WHILE HER WIFE IS PREGNANT by heading off to work en femme.   Stacy wants her to wait at least until the baby was born.  What's that?   Six months?   And Leslie said no or at the very least made Stacy feel bad about asking?   Really, Leslie?   It's okay to put your dick inside her and make her pregnant, but not okay to put your plans on hold for a lousy six months to alleviate some of Stacy's worries?    

I hate Leslie.  

Troy/Lucy.   Leslie working at a GUN SHOP made me wonder how much of this show is real and how much is sensationalist bullshit.   Troy/Lucy had the same effect.   He doesn't seem transgender at all.   He seems like an old guy who read an article about being transgender in a Ladies Home Journal that Cindy left by the toilet, then thought, you know, I'm kind of bored with everything.   Maybe I'll give this a try.  "Gee, I thought my skin would become soft and supple ..."   My own skin crawled.

AJ/Karen and his wife ... equally unlikeable.   

Larry/Lauren.   I'm tired of transgender people presenting as special snowflakes.   I have to shower with my clothes on!   Poor me!   There are eight million stories in the naked city (or even in the city that showers with its clothes on), and being transgender is not the worst of them.   Try watching someone fight a losing battle with ALS or another degenerative disease, or spend a few minutes watching a child confined to a wheelchair, then talk to me about your pain and your truth and how you can't wear the clothes you want.  Boo fucking hoo.   I'm not trying invalidate the sense of torment that plagues transgender people -- I know it all too well -- but these four need some perspective.   It's like they're working overtime to make everyone pity them.    

Nothing I saw on this show tonight would leave me feeling good about transgender people.  The only people I had any sympathy for were Stacy and Jennifer.   Where are the transgender individuals who came clean with their girlfriends before they got engaged?   Where are the transgender individuals who have avoided serious relationships until they feel comfortable as their true selves?  Where are the transgender people who took the time to sit down with their friends and loved ones and share what it means to be transgender and how it's affecting their lives before blowing them away with a Jerry Springer reveal?  

Not on TLC, that's for sure.  

The show also seems to have gone out of its way to cast four individuals who will have a lot of difficulty passing as women.   Cynical me suspects it was a deliberate move on TLC's part to ratchet up the freak show quality.   The transgender counterpart of 90 Day Fiance's gold-digging foreigners.

Edited June 2, 2018 by millennium