S06.E17: After The Decisions

[Gem 10]

I am so glad this show is over.  It was too long, and too many flashbacks and repeats of previous episodes.  Waste of time.  Ryan's blabbering did not make sense.  Jackies stoic monotone voice was repeticious (spell it right?) and boring all the time.  Lots of talking, but nothing of truth ever said.  I hope the shorten the show and do better matchmaking.  They don't have to have things in common .. Opposites do attract also.  Why didn't they say Jackie left and moved to Arizona?

[Gem 10]

17 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

Molly getting pissed and shooting daggers at everyone, while refusing to give evidence of Jon starting the fight or being mean to her, is classic Molly.  And it's giving me life.  I'm getting popcorn and waiting for her head to explode. 

OMG .. That is the funniest thing.  Ha ha ha.  Molly's face.  That was absolutely the last place she wanted to be.  I expected her to slither down into the sofa between the pillows.  She just doesn't quit with her blatant lies.  She even believes herself.  And that phony laugh .. like she was having a rip roaring blast with Jon. They had soooo much in common .. they even finished each other's sentences.  The girl is batso.  Molly trying to save her reputation was the highlite of the season.

[Kiss my mutt]

That episode was a whole big bag of nothing. I was hoping to be able to go to bed knowing Jaclyn has dumped that turd’s ass. 

[Neurochick]

8 hours ago, aphroditewitch said:

I disagree. People who are mature  don't engage in petty nonsense like that. And considering he was teasing some twist during the reunion that was a big nothing and also didn't involve him, I find myself concluding that he is an attention seeking loser. Molly might be a bitch, but Jon is a jackass. They both engaged in emotional abuse, and he should be called out for it too. 

I disagree with this.  People aren't robots.  I remember that old Mr. Rogers song, "good people sometimes do bad things," or something like that.  Mature people do engage in petty nonsense at times. 

I don't think that every time someone is not nice, or says something unkind, means they are engaging in abuse. 

Edited May 3, 2018 by Neurochick

[Empress1]

6 hours ago, kira28 said:

It's funny that they had friends show up for jephte and  Jon but no one wants to claim on national TV that they associate with Ryan lol. Not that I blame them 

If he and Jackie were still together at this taping it's only because the show offered them a bonus. They looked so incredibly uncomfortable and awkward and even they way they talked sounded like it was over. Jackie mentioned something about how she learned you shouldn't say hurtful things in an argument. The first few months of getting to know someone is the best. Of all she and Ryan did was fight and  argue they are a terrible match. 

Where were all Ryan's drinking buddies??

[princelina]

21 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

Where were all Ryan's drinking buddies??

Home with their wives?

[humbleopinion]

At a bar celebrating that they had a a night's respite from Ryan's motor mouth and idiocy...

[DrewPaul2010]

6 hours ago, silverspoons said:

While I really think Molly shoulders the blame for the marriage not even getting a shot I have gone over all the reasons why the show might edit Jon better or hide something Jon did or said. My only guess would be something do do with PTSD or military related. I'm not saying Jon has PTSD, he seems fine, but it was the only thing I could come up with that Molly would be afraid to say. I just thought about last big brother season and what  happened when Cody (who was a 32? year old Veteran)  had some fellow contestants try to push his buttons about his service and the backlash those people got and the show got . In fact Cody left the show pretty early on which usually means earlyto leave,  less popularity/after show oppurtunites but Cody was voted America's favorite and got to go on Amazing Race. There was a firm stand from America do not pick on a vet for any reason. If Molly who went to acting college is looking for some future on TV from MAFS maybe she would be too scared to bring up if she thought he had any post military issues. Or Molly could have seen Jon get mad once over something normal and label it something it was not. Again I do not think he had any signs of PTSD but since we now the show edits crazy , and big brother was on my mind I thought of it. 

You seem to be suggesting Molly is a noble person who is covering up a serious character flaw of Jon's. I don't think she's the kind of person who would fall on her sword to preserve the character of her husband. The only thing she mentioned was his acting immature the first night or two. The first sign things were going haywire was her telling an expert first before bringing it up to him. She blindsided him in a harsh manner. The simplest explanation is she wasn't willing to marry someone she didn't pick. She agreed to do so, got an innocent victim involved but realized this isn't who she would pick. Jon hung in there because he is a man of integrity but he should have stopped sleeping with her after the third week. If he was being abusive to Jon in anyway I'm sure she wouldn't hesitate to drop the bomb. I can only hope she gets this behind her grows up, develops empathy and character.

[humbleopinion]

Nurse: Mr. Pierre... here's your baby girl...

Jephte: I don't know that baby...

Shawniece: Jephte!

Jephte: Don't be pushing that baby into my arms...I don't wanna hold a baby that I haven't met...

Shawniece: Jephte!

Edited May 3, 2018 by humbleopinion

[Yeah No]

11 hours ago, aphroditewitch said:

I disagree. People who are mature  don't engage in petty nonsense like that. And considering he was teasing some twist during the reunion that was a big nothing and also didn't involve him, I find myself concluding that he is an attention seeking loser. Molly might be a bitch, but Jon is a jackass. They both engaged in emotional abuse, and he should be called out for it too. 

Wow, we must have been watching a different show.  Even when Jon's guard was down I didn't see him ONCE do anything to earn the name of "jackass".  And I don't believe anything that comes out of Molly's mouth about him.  If he got pissy with her in private I think it's because she deserved it.  I don't blame him for reacting to it when he realized she was dead set against being open to any kind of romantic relationship with him so soon into the marriage.  Any attempt on his part to take things to a new level was met with icy rebuffs, deliberately confusing mixed messages, gaslighting and total BS (all of which we even SAW her do on camera).  How is he supposed to react to that kind of abuse?  Should he have been a suffering martyr and act like a total dufus like David did with Ashley in that season?  I'm sure he would have been called names if he did that.  The guy can't win, really.  I think it blames the victim here.  Like someone can hurl nasty abuse at you but you can't get angry at them and react accordingly for doing it?  Like just what was he supposed to do?  I personally have more respect for a guy for defending himself and calling this bitch on her nastiness than for someone that just rolls over and lets them do it.  It's especially understandable under the circumstances.  If they were just dating, he wouldn't have had so much invested in the process and could just walk away no harm no foul.  But the stakes are higher in a situation like this and I think to be jerked around by someone so horribly after risking all that deserves more in return.  To me his response shows how personally hurt he was because of how invested he was in making the marriage work, and to me that's an admirable trait.

[Real4real]

Gah!  I did NOT need to see Ryan in his shirtless fireman’s outfit getting ready for sexy times again.  NO . . .just no.

Re Jon and Molly—I am not a fan of Molly, but if I remember right, it seemed like Jon was making some pretty crude sexual “jokes” leading up to the honeymoon night, plus he put a ball-gag in the welcome basket.  I thought it seemed like Molly was trying to be a good sport, but she looked very uncomfortable at that point.  So, not a fan of Jon either, but no one deserves to be treated that way.

[crazychicken]

11 minutes ago, Real4real said:

Gah!  I did NOT need to see Ryan in his shirtless fireman’s outfit getting ready for sexy times again.  NO . . .just no.

Re Jon and Molly—I am not a fan of Molly, but if I remember right, it seemed like Jon was making some pretty crude sexual “jokes” leading up to the honeymoon night, plus he put a ball-gag in the welcome basket.  I thought it seemed like Molly was trying to be a good sport, but she looked very uncomfortable at that point.  So, not a fan of Jon either, but no one deserves to be treated that way.

While I agree I cringed at Jon's crude jokes Molly laughed with him and played along Jon did not know it was a problem until he was blindsided when they talked to Dr Jessica as soon as she said that it was turning her off he toned right down. I do not remember him making another crude joke to her so what was an issue for Molly was addressed quite early into the honeymoon but even Jon being aware of the issue and changing his behavior did not help. I could understand Molly continuing to withdraw if Jon had done a Ryan and said 'this is me and I am not changing' but he didn't.

 

On Ryan I am still traumatized from the first time I see the scene starting and I mute the TV and turn away, nobody needs to see that. This year they went a little to far with the fantasy dates Jephte hauling Shawneice off to the bedroom was a bit too much info too. We are all adults we know they are intimate they could have cut the cameras a bit earlier and left them to it.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV podcast on the episode!

Married At First Sight's Reunion Special Fills More Time With More Filler

The only surprise has already been spoiled, but apparently we still have to do this anyway.

[discoprincess]

12 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Nurse: Mr. Pierre... here's your baby girl...

Jephte: I don't know that baby...

 

Or as Mariah would say, "I don't know her!"

[aphroditewitch]

12 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Wow, we must have been watching a different show.  Even when Jon's guard was down I didn't see him ONCE do anything to earn the name of "jackass".  And I don't believe anything that comes out of Molly's mouth about him.  If he got pissy with her in private I think it's because she deserved it.  I don't blame him for reacting to it when he realized she was dead set against being open to any kind of romantic relationship with him so soon into the marriage.  Any attempt on his part to take things to a new level was met with icy rebuffs, deliberately confusing mixed messages, gaslighting and total BS (all of which we even SAW her do on camera).  How is he supposed to react to that kind of abuse?  Should he have been a suffering martyr and act like a total dufus like David did with Ashley in that season?  I'm sure he would have been called names if he did that.  The guy can't win, really.  I think it blames the victim here.  Like someone can hurl nasty abuse at you but you can't get angry at them and react accordingly for doing it?  Like just what was he supposed to do?  I personally have more respect for a guy for defending himself and calling this bitch on her nastiness than for someone that just rolls over and lets them do it.  It's especially understandable under the circumstances.  If they were just dating, he wouldn't have had so much invested in the process and could just walk away no harm no foul.  But the stakes are higher in a situation like this and I think to be jerked around by someone so horribly after risking all that deserves more in return.  To me his response shows how personally hurt he was because of how invested he was in making the marriage work, and to me that's an admirable trait.

He was getting pissy on camera and when they were with other people. They even showed it during one of the reunion's many flashbacks. He was bitching about how he is entitled to affection and how he has been rejected. And he did that constantly. 

[psychoticstate]

On ‎5‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 11:32 AM, aphroditewitch said:

I disagree. People who are mature  don't engage in petty nonsense like that. And considering he was teasing some twist during the reunion that was a big nothing and also didn't involve him, I find myself concluding that he is an attention seeking loser. Molly might be a bitch, but Jon is a jackass. They both engaged in emotional abuse, and he should be called out for it too. 

 

Disagree.  Molly definitely engaged in emotional and verbal abuse - - it was caught on film.  Jon even said that Molly had told him off-camera that he disgusted her and that her skin crawled when he touched her.  Molly never disputed this, and Jon said it at least twice on the show, so that tells me it's 100% accurate.  If Molly had something on Jon, don't you think she's spill it? Of course she would.  She's not going to protect someone that she claims is "disgusting" and makes her skin crawl.  Especially after he blows her cover on tv. 

Frankly, I don't blame Jon for recording Molly if her behavior on and off camera is totally different.  When the two were speaking with the "experts" on camera, Jon was being told that he needed to be more understanding.  That would have driven me crazy, for it to be insinuated that I was the problem, while my spouse was being a nasty piece of work behind closed doors.

I can't believe that Pastor Cal was STILL trying to push Jon and Molly together at the reunion. Give it up, already!   

Edited May 3, 2018 by psychoticstate

[janerazor]

Molly's no saint, to be sure, but Jon always struck me as really full of himself. My impression was that he was pissed off because Molly wasn't into him right off the bat. That type of anger and entitlement would put me off any guy no matter how objectively good-looking he was. And I didn't like how he excused his mocking of Jackie's ring size because he said he didn't make fun of her after he met her. Umm, you don't get a cookie for discontinuing making someone the butt of your stupid joke.

 

When they replayed the bit about the condom still being on the floor, I had to laugh at Molly's, Ryan's, and Jackie's reactions. Molly was smirking because she knew that Jackie had fibbed about them not doing the deed yet. Ryan looked really embarrassed. And poor Jackie was cringing. Are Jackie and Ryan still together even? They looked super uncomfortable with each other during the reunion.

 

Well, I wish Shawniece and Jephte the best. Shawniece is right in that they do love very differently. I'd probably take the Jephte approach of being more reserved, but I have to admire Shawniece's all-in attitude as well.

[humbleopinion]

For those who inquire whether Jackie and Ryan are still a couple...go over to the speculation thread and you will get your answer...

[aphroditewitch]

3 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

Disagree.  Molly definitely engaged in emotional and verbal abuse - - it was caught on film.  Jon even said that Molly had told him off-camera that he disgusted her and that her skin crawled when he touched her.  Molly never disputed this, and Jon said it at least twice on the show, so that tells me it's 100% accurate.  If Molly had something on Jon, don't you think she's spill it? Of course she would.  She's not going to protect someone that she claims is "disgusting" and makes her skin crawl.  Especially after he blows her cover on tv. 

Frankly, I don't blame Jon for recording Molly if her behavior on and off camera is totally different.  When the two were speaking with the "experts" on camera, Jon was being told that he needed to be more understanding.  That would have driven me crazy, for it to be insinuated that I was the problem, while my spouse was being a nasty piece of work behind closed doors.

I can't believe that Pastor Cal was STILL trying to push Jon and Molly together at the reunion. Give it up, already!   

Actually we don't know whether she disputed things Jon said about her because the show edits everything.  Even if she said something during the reunion, it would have been edited out. The audience never gets the full version. What would be the point of her spilling things on Jon now? People have already decided and would claim she is lying or trying to save face. Along with that she has gotten violent threats from some people and in general she seems done with it. 

[humbleopinion]

Cast ended on friendly terms.. Antonio and his wife are next to Jackie...

Did Molly and Ryan exchange shirts?...what the flowered heck is he wearing....Molly must be going lumberjacking after the party...

Edited May 3, 2018 by humbleopinion

[gonecrackers]

I think that's Shawniece in the back; her wig & makeup on this episode were not her best look. 

I hope their baby doesn't cry as much as she does...

Edited May 3, 2018 by gonecrackers

[Yeah No]

5 hours ago, aphroditewitch said:

He was getting pissy on camera and when they were with other people. They even showed it during one of the reunion's many flashbacks. He was bitching about how he is entitled to affection and how he has been rejected. And he did that constantly. 

Jon neither did nor said anything excessively pissy in my opinion considering what he was up against with the ice princess day after day.  A little pissy-ness is expected under those circumstances and he could have been far worse.  In fact, we have seen far worse behavior in general on this show already from others that were being given the cold shoulder.  I never saw him say he was entitled to anything let alone say it "constantly".  And even if he did, doesn't he have a right to be upset if his wife is rejecting him?  Or should he just keep quiet about it?  I would be upset too if I was matched with a guy that rejected me and jerked me around and I would certainly vent about it.  Anyway, this show repeats the same footage over and over again so what looks like "constant" behavior only happened ONCE plus the talking heads are always instigated by production.  With Molly, the toxic shit that came out of her mouth was bad even if uttered only once.  Plus she flat out lied to the camera.  At least Jon was honest.

[humbleopinion]

Baby Jephtina thought bubble...Yum...milk...whut, again?...when will her eyes stop leaking?...her nose leaks too...eww...gross...

[Scout Finch]

I didn't like them bringing Jon's friend on the show, it was completely unnecessary. It's one thing for Shawniece to suggest to Molly that she could have have handled things better but all Jon's friend did was gang up on Molly with him. Regardless of her behavior, I don't think she deserved that. Antonio, on the other hand, had also become good friends with Shawniece so his appearance and input made more sense.

[Neurochick]

30 minutes ago, Scout Finch said:

I didn't like them bringing Jon's friend on the show, it was completely unnecessary. It's one thing for Shawniece to suggest to Molly that she could have have handled things better but all Jon's friend did was gang up on Molly with him. Regardless of her behavior, I don't think she deserved that. Antonio, on the other hand, had also become good friends with Shawniece so his appearance and input made more sense.

Maybe it's because Molly's not a nice, kind person.  Sometimes when people get ganged up on, there's a reason.

I don't have a problem with Ryan because he's not smart, I mean not everybody can be a Rhodes scholar.  My problem is that I really sense he has a very old fashioned concept of marriage.  The way he is probably would have worked in the Mad Men era, when men had one job, women had another and the emphasis was that you had to marry in order to have a family.  Today, people, at least these three couples, were looking for a partnership.  Jaclyn was looking for a partner, Ryan wanted a woman who'd stay home and wait for him, he'd give her his paycheck and then go out with the boys, he didn't want a partner at all, and to me, that was his problem in this show.

[humbleopinion]

Keke's ears are growing faster than the rest of her...

Edited May 4, 2018 by humbleopinion

[psychoticstate]

6 hours ago, aphroditewitch said:

Actually we don't know whether she disputed things Jon said about her because the show edits everything.  Even if she said something during the reunion, it would have been edited out. The audience never gets the full version. What would be the point of her spilling things on Jon now? People have already decided and would claim she is lying or trying to save face. Along with that she has gotten violent threats from some people and in general she seems done with it. 

It's true the show edits everything but I can't imagine they would let Jon's taping her in but not let her defense in.  Nope.  

Part of the reason people decided against her was because she had no defense.  Zero.  Nothing.  She tried to say that Jon started things or wasn't kind to her but she had no receipts. Then she tried to backpedal and suggest that she was protecting him.  Again, why?  Why would the show let in the bit about her saying she was protecting him but then cut what it was she was protecting? 

And even if the show did edit every possible thing she could have said in which Jon started it or it was his fault, she could put him on blast on SM.  Haven't heard a thing there.  So again, I'm going with Jon was correct and Molly is a mean, vile person.  

I think she became done with it when she was caught and her shit was put on blast.  Before that, she seemed perfectly fine with stating she and Jon had so much in common, that she really wanted the marriage to work and she knew that Jon was attractive. That said, as terrible as Molly may be, she doesn't deserve threats. 

[aphroditewitch]

1 hour ago, psychoticstate said:

It's true the show edits everything but I can't imagine they would let Jon's taping her in but not let her defense in.  Nope.  

Part of the reason people decided against her was because she had no defense.  Zero.  Nothing.  She tried to say that Jon started things or wasn't kind to her but she had no receipts. Then she tried to backpedal and suggest that she was protecting him.  Again, why?  Why would the show let in the bit about her saying she was protecting him but then cut what it was she was protecting? 

And even if the show did edit every possible thing she could have said in which Jon started it or it was his fault, she could put him on blast on SM.  Haven't heard a thing there.  So again, I'm going with Jon was correct and Molly is a mean, vile person.  

I think she became done with it when she was caught and her shit was put on blast.  Before that, she seemed perfectly fine with stating she and Jon had so much in common, that she really wanted the marriage to work and she knew that Jon was attractive. That said, as terrible as Molly may be, she doesn't deserve threats. 

And you can believe that. But I've seen reality shows pull far too much crap to give them the benefit of the doubt. Not all arguments or petty statements come with receipts and even receipts can be misleading. The producers are the same people who thought it was acceptable to cast a man with a history of domestic violence back in season 3. 

I don't trust Jon or Molly. But Jon in particular raises too many red flags for me. 

Edited May 4, 2018 by aphroditewitch

[Yeah No]

4 minutes ago, aphroditewitch said:

And you can believe that. But I've seen reality shows pull far too much crap to give them the benefit of the doubt. Not all arguments or petty statements comes with receipts and even receipts can be misleading. The producers are the same people who thought it was acceptable to cast a man with a history of domestic violence back in season 3. 

I don't trust Jon or Molly. But Jon in particular raises too many red flags for me. 

If Jon was that bad I would think Molly would have (at the very least) let the other women know about it in private, but I'm sure that never happened because Shawniece in particular seems to think the world of him since she defends him so much.

Also, Jon has one of the most impressive backgrounds of any of the men I've ever seen on this show.  Some of them have had sketchy backgrounds at best so I have not been surprised when they turn out to be dysfunctional.  Jon's also more articulate, has degrees, was in the military, etc.  Not that this automatically means he's above all of that, but just the way he carries himself tells me he's in a different category. I don't think he's the type to be a two-timing slug, a wife beater, a slacker or an isufferable boneheaded douche like Ryan.  He may have other annoying character flaws (such as making crude jokes at the wrong time, in my opinion a much more forgivable offense) but the others are probably not applicable.

[LuvMyShows]

On 5/2/2018 at 8:20 PM, Neurochick said:

I disagree with this.  People aren't robots.  I remember that old Mr. Rogers song, "good people sometimes do bad things," or something like that.  Mature people do engage in petty nonsense at times. 

I don't think that every time someone is not nice, or says something unkind, means they are engaging in abuse. 

Neurochick, you made my day with the Mr Rogers reference...I love him (RIP)!  The lyrics you were thinking of are, "Sometimes people are good, and they do just what they should.  But the very same people who are good sometimes, are the very same people who are bad sometimes."

And regarding the Jon/crude stuff from early on in their relationship, I just realized something.  His best friend is a girl who is basically "one of the guys" and is probably very into his crudeness.  So it would be understandable if that was his model for how you relate to a girl you're going to be close to. 

[Yeah No]

5 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

And regarding the Jon/crude stuff from early on in their relationship, I just realized something.  His best friend is a girl who is basically "one of the guys" and is probably very into his crudeness.  So it would be understandable if that was his model for how you relate to a girl you're going to be close to. 

Or maybe he just gravitates toward women that "get" his sense of humor.  Molly seemed a little humorless.  Personally I'd much rather hang with Jon's BFF than Molly.  Ugh, just the thought of that!! :-P

[LennieBriscoe]

Haha,  Humble Opinion! I'll  add:

"That baby's a stranger!"

Now, as a dame whose ring size is 8, I'm here to tell you that Jon was absolutely ribbing Ryan to suggest his bride-to-be was fat! ?

Gem 10, Did Jackie really do as you said? Spoiler? Or won't there be a future TV reunion? I mean,  I DO realize the overall meaninglessness....? 

Edited May 4, 2018 by LennieBriscoe

[aphroditewitch]

8 hours ago, Yeah No said:

If Jon was that bad I would think Molly would have (at the very least) let the other women know about it in private, but I'm sure that never happened because Shawniece in particular seems to think the world of him since she defends him so much.

Also, Jon has one of the most impressive backgrounds of any of the men I've ever seen on this show.  Some of them have had sketchy backgrounds at best so I have not been surprised when they turn out to be dysfunctional.  Jon's also more articulate, has degrees, was in the military, etc.  Not that this automatically means he's above all of that, but just the way he carries himself tells me he's in a different category. I don't think he's the type to be a two-timing slug, a wife beater, a slacker or an isufferable boneheaded douche like Ryan.  He may have other annoying character flaws (such as making crude jokes at the wrong time, in my opinion a much more forgivable offense) but the others are probably not applicable.

Then your understanding of the response to  abusive behavior is inaccurate. It is very common for people to rationalize a situation to convince themselves that a person's behavior is not abusive. Consider Ryan and Jacklyn. His behavior was at minimum emotional abuse, yet Jackie doesn't seem to have used that term to describe how he treated her, the experts didn't seem to care and no one else on the show called him on it from what I saw. 

Jon's background is meaningless in terms of how he treats people. People from all backgrounds can be horrible and abusive. Jon's behavior raises reg flags for me. Especially his determination to make sure his version of what happened is seen as the accurate version and the only version. And like I said, the show has a history of protecting the men. 

[psychoticstate]

17 minutes ago, aphroditewitch said:

Then your understanding of the response to  abusive behavior is inaccurate. It is very common for people to rationalize a situation to convince themselves that a person's behavior is not abusive. Consider Ryan and Jacklyn. His behavior was at minimum emotional abuse, yet Jackie doesn't seem to have used that term to describe how he treated her, the experts didn't seem to care and no one else on the show called him on it from what I saw. 

Jon's background is meaningless in terms of how he treats people. People from all backgrounds can be horrible and abusive. Jon's behavior raises reg flags for me. Especially his determination to make sure his version of what happened is seen as the accurate version and the only version. And like I said, the show has a history of protecting the men. 

Not to jump in for @Yeah No but there's been no proof that Jon has been abusive.  There has, however, been proof that Molly has.  

Is it possible that Molly didn't share with anybody?  Of course.  But again, I stick with my theory that if there was anything out there, she would have spilled.  Especially since she was claiming that her abusive behavior was a result of something Jon did but she's protecting him.  I just don't buy that.  She freely talked about her threesome in her initial interview so I can't imagine she'd be embarrassed to admit anything.  

I guess I just don't see the same red flags re Jon.  I see him as someone who was hurt and discouraged that his wife wanted nothing to do with him and sent him mixed messages.  He said he was adventurous, and I got that.   Molly said she was and I didn't see that at all.  In fact, she came across to me as someone who was wound pretty tight and was reserved.

[gonecrackers]

Jon was a man scorned; Ryan a bonafide abusive ass hole.

I wonder if hidden recorders are coming in future seasons.

Edited May 4, 2018 by gonecrackers

[kira28]

I think Molly is fake but I also feel like the show gave Jon a good edit. They took someone whose father died suddenly and left Molly and her mom and sister struggling to make ends meet. I can see that damaging Molly to the point she became a hard worker and she seeks a, partner with stable income of their own. She may have lost some of the initial physical attraction to Jon because he lost his job. Even though Jon is plenty employable I too would be turned off that Someone prioritized a reality TV show over his career. 

Jon was completely in the wrong for starting a, fight then recording Molly's reaction. Yes Molly was  wrong for her drunken mocking of Jon for recording her bit  I still believe the disgusting was, that he was recording her. He did not include his part of the fight in the recording. I think Jon was hurt and jealous that Molly wasn't into him. He spent far too much time complainijg about how Molly wouldn't show him affection and how he'd never had a girlfriend not make out with, no woman could resist him in a suit etc. I know  i would  be annoyed if a guy i had just started dating  insisted everyone found him attracted and was pressuring me to sleep with him. It just doesn't make sense to me that Jon is this fabulous guy and Molly was just a cold bitch. People thought the same things about David and Ashley

[aphroditewitch]

3 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

Not to jump in for @Yeah No but there's been no proof that Jon has been abusive.  There has, however, been proof that Molly has.  

Is it possible that Molly didn't share with anybody?  Of course.  But again, I stick with my theory that if there was anything out there, she would have spilled.  Especially since she was claiming that her abusive behavior was a result of something Jon did but she's protecting him.  I just don't buy that.  She freely talked about her threesome in her initial interview so I can't imagine she'd be embarrassed to admit anything.  

I guess I just don't see the same red flags re Jon.  I see him as someone who was hurt and discouraged that his wife wanted nothing to do with him and sent him mixed messages.  He said he was adventurous, and I got that.   Molly said she was and I didn't see that at all.  In fact, she came across to me as someone who was wound pretty tight and was reserved.

I disagree. I think Jon did engage in abusive behavior. He repeatedly berated her for not being affectionate towards him. And when berating her about it when they were alone wasn't enough for him, he did it in front of the other participants. Perhaps you don't see that behavior as abusive, but I do. 

[LuvMyShows]

1 hour ago, kira28 said:

Jon was completely in the wrong for starting a, fight then recording Molly's reaction. Yes Molly was  wrong for her drunken mocking of Jon for recording her bit  I still believe the disgusting was, that he was recording her. He did not include his part of the fight in the recording. I think Jon was hurt and jealous that Molly wasn't into him. He spent far too much time complainijg about how Molly wouldn't show him affection and how he'd never had a girlfriend not make out with, no woman could resist him in a suit etc. I know  i would  be annoyed if a guy i had just started dating  insisted everyone found him attracted and was pressuring me to sleep with him. It just doesn't make sense to me that Jon is this fabulous guy and Molly was just a cold bitch. People thought the same things about David and Ashley

Keep in mind that we don't know that Jon started the fight...Molly said that.  And we already know that Molly lied to not-Dr. Pepper, so there's every reason to believe that she was lying about this too.  

[psychoticstate]

1 hour ago, aphroditewitch said:

I disagree. I think Jon did engage in abusive behavior. He repeatedly berated her for not being affectionate towards him. And when berating her about it when they were alone wasn't enough for him, he did it in front of the other participants. Perhaps you don't see that behavior as abusive, but I do. 

This is a subject where YMMV.  Jon did talk about Molly's lack of affection both with her alone, in front of the camera, and in a group setting twice that I recall.  I could be wrong.  In the group settings, he was responding to questions from the others about how things were going.  Sure, he could have kept it to himself but it was an issue and he brought it up.  I don't consider that berating.  The bedroom convo with Molly, perhaps. 

OTOH, being called disgusting (and fucking disgusting) as well as being told that touching someone makes their skin crawl, that is berating to me.  

Again, YMMV.  Nobody is necessarily right or wrong here.  Only Jon and Molly know exactly what went down although Jon appears to be in the dark about what caused Molly to shut down and she's not said the reasoning either.

1 hour ago, LuvMyShows said:

Keep in mind that we don't know that Jon started the fight...Molly said that.  And we already know that Molly lied to not-Dr. Pepper, so there's every reason to believe that she was lying about this too.  

True.  Molly said that Jon started the fight but she never said exactly how that went down.  Why not say Jon started the fight because he was talking to another woman, or he brought up the threesome or whatever?  Molly's version IMO sounds like a child fighting.  My brothers and I used to do that - - so-and-so started it, with no corroborating info because we didn't have any.  We got caught by our parents and wanted to shift blame.

[rab01]

19 minutes ago, psychoticstate said:

True.  Molly said that Jon started the fight but she never said exactly how that went down.  Why not say Jon started the fight because he was talking to another woman, or he brought up the threesome or whatever?  Molly's version IMO sounds like a child fighting.  My brothers and I used to do that - - so-and-so started it, with no corroborating info because we didn't have any.  We got caught by our parents and wanted to shift blame.

I think it's fair to say that Jon told us that he started the fight.  He says that she was being monosyllabic with him but opened up and became chatty as soon as another guy started talking to her.  He then said that he chose to start recording to show the experts that Molly really did have an issue specifically with him, not just a general go-slow approach to relationships.  So, in Jon's own version, he started the argument.  I still think he was right to do it and I'm on his side.  I don't think that has to make Molly a terrible human being; just a bad candidate for this show.  

As for did she or didn't she say that her "skin crawled" when he touched her?  We've been shown him asserting it at least twice on the show and she's never denied it.  If her denial was edited out, it was better editing than they usually use.  More tellingly, she has defended herself on social media but AFAIK has not denied using that phrase.  Whether or not she had good cause to use the phrase in the moment when she did, everything we've seen strongly suggests that she did actually use that phrase.  And, regardless of whether Jon or Molly would have been the injured party in that moment (none of us were there), there is no way that they should have stayed together or been pressured the way Pastor Cal seemed to be doing ...

[princelina]

1 hour ago, rab01 said:

I think it's fair to say that Jon told us that he started the fight.  He says that she was being monosyllabic with him but opened up and became chatty as soon as another guy started talking to her.  He then said that he chose to start recording to show the experts that Molly really did have an issue specifically with him, not just a general go-slow approach to relationships.  So, in Jon's own version, he started the argument.  I still think he was right to do it and I'm on his side.  I don't think that has to make Molly a terrible human being; just a bad candidate for this show.  

As for did she or didn't she say that her "skin crawled" when he touched her?  We've been shown him asserting it at least twice on the show and she's never denied it.  If her denial was edited out, it was better editing than they usually use.  More tellingly, she has defended herself on social media but AFAIK has not denied using that phrase.  Whether or not she had good cause to use the phrase in the moment when she did, everything we've seen strongly suggests that she did actually use that phrase.  And, regardless of whether Jon or Molly would have been the injured party in that moment (none of us were there), there is no way that they should have stayed together or been pressured the way Pastor Cal seemed to be doing ...

He started the argument by noticing her rudeness instead of pretending it wasn't happening (like he was supposed to do) :D

[PerfectlyObvious]

I invite everyone to step back in time with me in the "way-back" machine to the wedding vows portion of Jon+Molly, and recall the introductory advice her family gave was (to paraphrase), "She likes her pants perfectly pressed". This was an obvious clue to Jon to turn and run before the vows were completed. All of Molly's farcical claims of being a wanton adventure seeker were exposed right there in that single statement.

For her, the marriage was doomed after Jon drove the dune-buggy through the mud and splashed her "perfect" hair/nails/clothes. In my opinion, it was right then at that moment she decided he was not acceptable to be her spouse.

[Kiss my mutt]

Omgee Molly! Being adventurous involves getting your hair messed up. She is a regimented stick up her ass, nose in the air bitchfaced shrew. 

[ChristmasJones]

IIRC, when Molly was asked about the problems btw her and Jon by the experts, during this episode, she made a comment about him being goofy/immature on the honeymoon.

I wonder if given her background, losing her dad and the resulting financial security, this "goofy/immature" behavior created a red flag in her mind, and then when she also found out Jon was unemployed, the two merged together to form a feeling in her that this guy would not be a stable provider, and she just emotionally checked out. I also believe that the excess sweat was the proverbial icing on the cake that cemented her feelings of disgust to him.  It was a double whammy in her mind-  no job/goofy/immature + super sweaty = no attraction.  I wonder if also during his "goofy/immature" behavior (at least to Molly's mind), he was trying to be physically affectionate with her.  If a guy did that while she was having this very strong "I don't like" reaction,  that could have been one more thing that convinced her that he was a bad guy who disgusts her.

I'm sure all of us have had the experience where we meet a new person and there are some small things about them that just rub us the wrong way. As we get to know them, we come to find that they have many good traits and qualities, but sometimes I think it can be very hard to let go of that strong initial impression.

I could be all wrong.. I am just trying to imagine how Molly got to the point she did.

Edited May 4, 2018 by ChristmasJones

[Yeah No]

13 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

Not to jump in for @Yeah No but there's been no proof that Jon has been abusive.  There has, however, been proof that Molly has.  

Is it possible that Molly didn't share with anybody?  Of course.  But again, I stick with my theory that if there was anything out there, she would have spilled.  Especially since she was claiming that her abusive behavior was a result of something Jon did but she's protecting him.  I just don't buy that.  She freely talked about her threesome in her initial interview so I can't imagine she'd be embarrassed to admit anything.  

I guess I just don't see the same red flags re Jon.  I see him as someone who was hurt and discouraged that his wife wanted nothing to do with him and sent him mixed messages.  He said he was adventurous, and I got that.   Molly said she was and I didn't see that at all.  In fact, she came across to me as someone who was wound pretty tight and was reserved.

With posts like this, you can jump in for me any time!  :)

I agree with you.  I stick to my theory that Molly was just trying to take the attention off of her bad behavior by insinuating that Jon's was somehow worse but hidden.  So then some take that to be the "real" story just because she said it, when she's a known liar to boot!  What gets me is that her bad behavior was not hidden and bad enough all by itself to in my mind justify Jon being a little pissy and angry in return, yet some people think that makes him the bad guy.  I don't think that makes him the bad guy.  I'm not buying into some Molly-generated conspiracy theory about Jon.  All the things I see theorized about why Molly might not have liked Jon are TRIVIAL and SURFACE.  If she took 5 minutes to get off her freaking high horse and get to KNOW him as a real human being she would see beyond those things to the person down deep and see the value in knowing him in spite of a few surface glitches.  But Molly is not interested in knowing anyone down deep, or accepting a person with flaws.  I see her as a dysfunctional person that is terrified of a deep emotional bond with anyone.  She has so many hurts and hang ups that she is not open to letting a real person close to her.  She may end up with someone that represents something to her, that she can fantasize is "perfect" because she can't get emotionally close enough to them to feel vulnerable; someone that doesn't mind that she's cold and distant and has trouble with intimacy.  But when presented with someone that wants more than that she is just not interested and worse, treats them like some kind of harasser or intruder because they *GASP*, wanted to get close to her.  I mean, how DARE a guy think he can do that?  In her mind every little flaw needs to be magnified and insulted beyond all reality to justify her feelings.

Come to think of it, I've known people like this who have done things like this to me.  I had a boss once like this.  The more I tried to please her and be nice to her the more she abused me and found fault with every little thing I did.  And I've been in my career a long time and know how to handle myself with bosses.  She did this to everyone in the department and half of the people left when she was boss because they couldn't take the abuse anymore.  

Edited May 5, 2018 by Yeah No

[Yeah No]

9 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

This is a subject where YMMV.  Jon did talk about Molly's lack of affection both with her alone, in front of the camera, and in a group setting twice that I recall.  I could be wrong.  In the group settings, he was responding to questions from the others about how things were going.  Sure, he could have kept it to himself but it was an issue and he brought it up.  I don't consider that berating.  The bedroom convo with Molly, perhaps. 

OTOH, being called disgusting (and fucking disgusting) as well as being told that touching someone makes their skin crawl, that is berating to me.  

I'm with you on this.  I thing calling what he did "berating" is an exaggeration.  I think a more accurate word would be "venting".  I also think their arguments escalated because Molly was not going to give ONE inch.  I can't blame Jon for being upset to find this out and hand her BS back to her.  I admire him for not letting her push him around.  I have suffered through how many seasons of this show where the reluctant partner is unpopular because they won't "enter into the process" or "give the person a chance".  Well, as much as she tried to lie to the experts that she was giving him a chance, she didn't, and he knew it.  I think her reasons for not giving him a chance were surface and exaggerated in her own mind as a cover for some kind of fear she has of allowing herself to be vulnerable.  She sized Jon up as someone that was just a regular guy, not the exciting James Bond action figure he seems to be on paper.  I think the experts were trying to give Molly her "fantasy man" by choosing Jon because let's face it, on paper he sounds pretty awesome.  He checks off all the boxes of what Molly said she wanted.  But they wrongly also chose him because he was just a regular guy that related to women in a regular way, not some kind of superhero or he-man type from a movie.  Unfortunately Molly wasn't looking for the guy next door.  I personally find Jon attractive because he has that interesting background but he's also just a normal everyday person.  He isn't full of himself or self absorbed (I don't agree with people that think he is) and seems to want a more intimate give and take relationship with a woman.  He has a vulnerable side.  I think Molly is only happy with a guy that will put her on a pedestal and worship her from afar.  Jon is looking for an equal and would want to get far too emotionally close for her comfort.

Edited May 5, 2018 by Yeah No

[Yeah No]

6 hours ago, PerfectlyObvious said:

I invite everyone to step back in time with me in the "way-back" machine to the wedding vows portion of Jon+Molly, and recall the introductory advice her family gave was (to paraphrase), "She likes her pants perfectly pressed". This was an obvious clue to Jon to turn and run before the vows were completed. All of Molly's farcical claims of being a wanton adventure seeker were exposed right there in that single statement.

Hah, very good for remembering that!  It's just more fodder for my theory that she is looking for surface things but cannot tolerate the inevitable flaws or allow herself to feel vulnerable.  Heaven forbid that someone see her looking less than perfect, or with a guy that looks less than perfect to the world.  To her Jon would make her have to be too "messy" and that's intolerable for someone whose pants have to be perfectly pressed.  She would probably be much happier with what we used to call back in the day "the strong silent type".  You know, the he-man that doesn't engage in messy "feelings" or a give-and-take relationship.  She wants an action figure that loves her from afar on her perfectly pressed pedestal, not someone with which she can share a close emotional bond.  That would feel far too out of control and crazy to her.  She only told the experts she was an adventure seeker so they would match her with someone like that.  I still think the profile of the person I'm creating in my mind that matches Molly's requirements is someone very specific - Too specific not to be patterned on someone from her past.  It could be her father.

[LuvMyShows]

I still cannot believe that Pastor Cal was trying to push Molly and Jon together.  It makes me despair for the advice he is giving in his pastoral counseling.  A pastor's words are powerful in a church, and I imagine there are some very sad and unhappy people being abused in all kinds of ways (especially the subtle and unprovable ways), but sticking it out in their marriage because Pastor Cal said so, and everyone around them buys into that.

[KateHearts]

20 hours ago, kira28 said:

Jon was completely in the wrong for starting a, fight then recording Molly's reaction. Yes Molly was  wrong for her drunken mocking of Jon for recording her bit  I still believe the disgusting was, that he was recording her.

From how it was presented, Jon made Molly aware that he started recording by saying, "so, Molly and I just had a big fight..." TO the camera. So to me, it isn't such an underhanded thing that he recorded the argument.  She was either too drunk or too confident to think that he would actually expose her the way he did.  

I don't think he actually berated her regarding the sex issue, but he definitely got a little whiny about it.  And it really wasn't the sex per se-it was her lack of genuine affection that translated into her almost physically recoiling near him.  Where I think the problem lies in this show: the "experts" pretty much say that with the marriage license comes the expectation that sex follows naturally.  And you can hear in the "expert" THs that they stupidly view these couples just as they would those who have years behind them before getting married. These people meet up as if they were on a first date and most need some time to warm up; the expectations shouldn't be the same as with "typical" newlyweds.   Jon, I think, was all in with the experts: I'm entitled to get laid since I'm married.  Their forcing the couples to do the ridiculous "fantasy" game further reinforced the narrative.  Molly put on a red wig because that's what the show producers and ridiculous experts cooked up.  Jon took it as an intro to sex.  The whole thing is way too contrived and forced.  

[aphroditewitch]

12 hours ago, Yeah No said:

With posts like this, you can jump in for me any time!  :)

I agree with you.  I stick to my theory that Molly was just trying to take the attention off of her bad behavior by insinuating that Jon's was somehow worse but hidden.  So then some take that to be the "real" story just because she said it, when she's a known liar to boot!  What gets me is that her bad behavior was not hidden and bad enough all by itself to in my mind justify Jon being a little pissy and angry in return, yet some people think that makes him the bad guy.  I don't think that makes him the bad guy.  I'm not buying into some Molly-generated conspiracy theory about Jon.  All the things I see theorized about why Molly might not have liked Jon are TRIVIAL and SURFACE.  If she took 5 minutes to get off her freaking high horse and get to KNOW him as a real human being she would see beyond those things to the person down deep and see the value in knowing him in spite of a few surface glitches.  But Molly is not interested in knowing anyone down deep, or accepting a person with flaws.  I see her as a dysfunctional person that is terrified of a deep emotional bond with anyone.  She has so many hurts and hang ups that she is not open to letting a real person close to her.  She may end up with someone that represents something to her, that she can fantasize is "perfect" because she can't get emotionally close enough to them to feel vulnerable; someone that doesn't mind that she's cold and distant and has trouble with intimacy.  But when presented with someone that wants more than that she is just not interested and worse, treats them like some kind of harasser or intruder because they *GASP*, wanted to get close to her.  I mean, how DARE a guy think he can do that?  In her mind every little flaw needs to be magnified and insulted beyond all reality to justify her feelings.

Come to think of it, I've known people like this who have done things like this to me.  I had a boss once like this.  The more I tried to please her and be nice to her the more she abused me and found fault with every little thing I did.  And I've been in my career a long time and know how to handle myself with bosses.  She did this to everyone in the department and half of the people left when she was boss because they couldn't take the abuse anymore.  

It is was actually Jon's behavior that led me to believe he has a side we didn't see on the show. And his continued actions since then have supported my opinion. The guy put a letter  to his fans about his experience on this show on his LinkedIn page. That is just massively unprofessional and I can't imagine that any HR professional would think that was a good idea.