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S08.E08: The Big Question

Lisin

By Lisin
in 19 Kids And Counting [V]

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zebra2013

zebra2013

I make my husband watch this with me all the time and although I've attempted to explain the Duggar/Gothard/Patriarchy culture terminology, he just constantly says that is isn't 1920 whenever they use the phrase "courting."  It is so quaint and cheesy.  And my husband is 60.  So he's "heard" of courtships in literature or cultural terms, just not Duggar. 

  • Love 1
wanderwoman

wanderwoman

One odd thing is the language that the girl "courts" the boy. I always thought the boy courted the girl, trying to win the favor of fair lady. 

In all reality, the girls don't actually do anything remotely suggestive or active until THE MEN decides that she can.  Remember, in their own words, the girls should be content with where they are and prepare themselves for the on God has for them.  All four of the older girls said that the way to their heart is through daddy.  They even admitted that liking someone didn't mean they would pursue the guy, they said that, if that guy was meant for them, God would lead them to talk to Jim Bob.  That's the infuriating part-  it's a man deciding not only if they want the relationship, but also a man (the father) dreaming the worthiness of the suitor.  

  • Love 5
wanderwoman

wanderwoman

Derrick is great, for as much as we've seen.    But, isn't it kind of weird that we're essentially meeting him while Jill is?  Even with the "video conferences"  and daily phone calls, I think committing to marry someone after the slight contact they've had is scary.  It's a good thing Derrick seems like an independent, stand up guy.  One only needs to look at Ben to see how lucky Jill is.

 

Omg! Michelle drives me nuts.  She needs the excuse of a slingshot to justify spending time with James?  I don't think she gets it.   If she were any other mom of 19, she wouldn't have the J'slaves who are happy to take on the parental responsibilities so you can  claim a half hour of quality time with your son.    In some ways, the fact that they are going out of their way to show Michelle's one-on-one activities, and her stating that she could do it NOW because she's not expecting, only proves what everyone already knew: the kids she had/has are second in priority to the pregnancy and newborn she wants.  Sad.

  • Love 1
DangerousMinds

DangerousMinds

In all reality, the girls don't actually do anything remotely suggestive or active until THE MEN decides that she can.  Remember, in their own words, the girls should be content with where they are and prepare themselves for the on God has for them.  All four of the older girls said that the way to their heart is through daddy.  They even admitted that liking someone didn't mean they would pursue the guy, they said that, if that guy was meant for them, God would lead them to talk to Jim Bob.  That's the infuriating part-  it's a man deciding not only if they want the relationship, but also a man (the father) dreaming the worthiness of the suitor.

But isn't the woman the only one who can end a courtship or engagement? Surely there has been a man who wanted to break one off in fundie history.

Laura Jane

Laura Jane

But isn't the woman the only one who can end a courtship or engagement? Surely there has been a man who wanted to break one off in fundie history.

 

This rumor keeps popping up but it isn't true.  Either person can break off the courtship.  I wonder if there is some confusion with the old Victorian standards of courting when a man could be sued for breaking an engagement?  P.G. Wodehouse, for one, wrote several comedies based around a man writing letters to an unsuitable woman (i.e. a chorus girl) and then being blackmailed.

  • Love 2
wanderwoman

wanderwoman

But isn't the woman the only one who can end a courtship or engagement? Surely there has been a man who wanted to break one off in fundie history.

I think either party can end the courtship.  I think it's probably less likely, in these patriarchal families, that the guy would break it off since the stakes are so high and the guy is the one who instigated the relationship.  If God, supposedly, led him to the girl, that's saying something more than the passivity of the girl (who sits and waits for the guy to approach dad and then approach her).  The girl can always say that she got to know him and prayed about the relationship and feels its not progressing.  The guy....what can he say?  A guy ending the relationship would suggest that God misled him.

all4mom

all4mom

In last night's episode, Jerrick said, on the webcam, "Thanks for letting me borrow Dill!" and one of the sisters -- I suspect outspoken Jana -- retorted, "As long as you give her back!" under her breath.  I'm sure they resent the childcare duties and especially when one breaks free and the others have to shoulder additional burdens as a result.  Poor Joyless Anna making that sad wheat and honey bread!

  • Love 3
drafan

drafan

(edited)

I never liked Jill before, but she and Derick are so darn adorkable, that I can't even be snarky.

 

I think she's a hopeless romantic to the core. I hope things work out well for them. But I do think she's going to have tons of babies....and soon. The Kool-Aid's in her veins.

 

I think JB planned the courtship for Jessa as a way to keep ratings up, then the Jill/Derick thing kind of just cropped up unexpectedly.... thus Jessa/Ben is on the back-burner for now. I'm sure JB wants to spread out the wedding specials.

 

Ben does kind of have a nice body. (Can't believe I just said that. Guess I'm being defrauded by the tight t-shirts......good thing I don't read them.)

 

Why is Michelle admitting she was a tom-boy and little hooligan? Must be a long-term ulterior motive....hmmm.....JB must be plotting a redemption arc for her......

 

So now Jinger pawns off bread-baking to JoyAnna?  Maybe Jinger will become Jessa's lady-in-waiting. Must suck to be JoyAnna.

 

Jessa's day must consist of texting Ben, applying make-up, deciding what to wear, styling her hair, skyping with Ben, painting her nails, calling Ben, accessorizing, talking selfies, and going to Starbucks. How does this differ from a day (not night LOL)  in the life of Paris Hilton?

Edited by drafan
  • Love 6
Absolom

Absolom

Ratings this week: 2.236 M viewers and a .7 rating. I keep waiting to see Johannah taking up laundry duty in the new episodes. Isn't that one of the into jurisdictions? She's old enough by Duggar standards to step up. I don't think it's so much a matter of the two young women courting slacking off as it is reality hit Michelle that she'd been slacking off getting the next group trained.

MMLEsq

MMLEsq

So now Jessa pawns off bread-baking to JoyAnna?  Must suck to be JoyAnna. Jessa's day must consist of texting Ben, applying make-up, deciding what to wear, styling her hair, skyping with Ben, painting her nails, calling Ben, accessorizing, talking selfies, and going to Starbucks. How does this differ from a day in the life of Paris Hilton?

It seemed like bread-baking was Jinger's jurisdiction.  Jinger was definitely the one teaching JoyAnna how to make it.  I thought it was interesting that Jinger couldn't remember who first taught her how to make bread -- it was either Michelle or John-David.  I could understand if she couldn't remember whether it was Jana or Jill, but to not remember between Michelle and John-David struck me as somewhat odd.

 

I wonder if Jinger's moving up to take over some of the things that Jana, Jill and/or Jessa do now...otherwise, I don't know why Jinger would be passing off her stuff to JoyAnna.  You'd think JoyAnna would be learning how to do the things that the sisters that will be leaving first (most likely) are doing now. 

Marigny

Marigny

I never liked Jill before, but she and Derick are so darn adorkable, that I can't even be snarky.

 

I think she's a hopeless romantic to the core. I hope things work out well for them. But I do think she's going to have tons of babies....and soon. The Kool-Aid's in her veins.

 

I think JB planned the courtship for Jessa as a way to keep ratings up, then the Jill/Derick thing kind of just cropped up unexpectedly.... thus Jessa/Ben is on the back-burner for now. I'm sure JB wants to spread out the wedding specials.

 

Ben does kind of have a nice body. (Can't believe I just said that. Guess I'm being defrauded by the tight t-shirts......good thing I don't read them.)

 

Why is Michelle admitting she was a tom-boy and little hooligan? Must be a long-term ulterior motive....hmmm.....JB must be plotting a redemption arc for her......

 

So now Jinger pawns off bread-baking to JoyAnna?  Maybe Jinger will become Jessa's lady-in-waiting. Must suck to be JoyAnna.

 

Jessa's day must consist of texting Ben, applying make-up, deciding what to wear, styling her hair, skyping with Ben, painting her nails, calling Ben, accessorizing, talking selfies, and going to Starbucks. How does this differ from a day (not night LOL)  in the life of Paris Hilton?

Hippies & heathens hang at Starbucks. Way too much opportunity for Nike.

  

I think that Joy was assigned laundry duty a while back. I expect her to get dinner and/or lunch duty any day now.

  

If she goes to lunch duty, who would help Grandma in the laundry room that she's never allowed to leave?

Her main job is to remind the heathen masses she delivered all her nineteen investments err... children.  Plus the fact she gets to have sex with her horn dog husband and lords it over her children except for Smuggar

"Sooooo precious! Such a blessssing!" *J'Chelle voice

MrMattyMatt

MrMattyMatt

(edited)

Did we ever hear or see what kind of "Mission work" Derrick was doing in Nepal?  All Jill said was that he "helps people" and I never saw him doing anything. (Unless I blinked and missed it.)   Maybe filming it was not allow or else TLC felt it would be better to have endless talking heads regarding how nervous yet excited Jill is?

 

I'm glad Jill was able to volunteer at the birthing center in Nepal.  Her "heart" really seems to be in it, I hope she evenutally is able to pursue it as a career.

 

Was anyone else annoyed at J'Chelle's uber-affected baby-robot talk when she addressed Derrick on the video chat?  It just seemed to be ramped up for some reason.

 

I vote for the beard too.  The "Nepal Shave" seemed like it was some more TLC "filler" which allowed us to see Boob act like a baby.

 

Jinger seemed more than happy to pass along the bread making duties to Joyless-Anna. 

 

I also agree that Jessa is living the Paris Hilton lifestyle while courting infantile Ben.  Wait til that honeymoon is over!

Edited by MrMattyMatt
  • Love 1
drafan

drafan

(edited)

Jessa is becoming dangerously close to talking like a Valley Girl (or whatever it's called these days...Kardashian-speak??), pausing to say "Yeah" (Jill does it too), and inserting "like" into every sentence.

 

Maybe they will have to send her to BabyTalk Camp where she will learn to simper correctly. And use the toddler word for things whenever possible.....such as "tummy" for stomach, "ouchie" for hurt, etc, even when speaking to other adults.  And remember to never use pronouns while speaking. (Now, Josie, look at Mama. Mama wants Josie to take turns with brother. Mama is going to be watching Josie to make sure Josie does what Mama says.")

Edited by drafan
  • Love 2
SpaghettiTuesdays

SpaghettiTuesdays

I really liked the dynamic of Jill-Derrick in this episode, but there was still awkward moments.

I loved how JBoob switched seats with Jill. As PP said above, "FU INTERWEBZ". Like we believe you, JB.

Loved seeing more of Joy-Anna, though I wish we'd see her having fun like we did in the olden days. Poor girl.

LOL JChelle spends one-on-one time with one of her kids. So tv-worthy.

Marigny

Marigny

Jessa is becoming dangerously close to talking like a Valley Girl (or whatever it's called these days...Kardashian-speak??), pausing to say "Yeah" (Jill does it too), and inserting "like" into every sentence.

 

Now you see what happens when Boob forgets to activate the parental controls on the interwebs. 

 

I really liked the dynamic of Jill-Derrick in this episode, but there was still awkward moments.

I loved how JBoob switched seats with Jill. As PP said above, "FU INTERWEBZ". Like we believe you, JB.

Loved seeing more of Joy-Anna, though I wish we'd see her having fun like we did in the olden days. Poor girl.

LOL JChelle spends one-on-one time with one of her kids. So tv-worthy.

Joyless Anna is a spin-off reality series (Breaking Dugger: Life After Jumping the Fence) or Lifetime movie (she slowly poisons Boob & Mullet with the honey bread, Flowers In The Attic style) waiting to happen. 

  • Love 1
Absolom

Absolom

I almost forgot, did anyone else catch the nauseating talking head of Boob proclaiming how lucky he was to score J'Chelle considering all the Football players that could have gotten her?

That's the exact dynamic many people have called for the Duggars over the years.  Jim Bob caught the hot cheerleader and is still crowing about it over 20 years later.

  • Love 1
DangerousMinds

DangerousMinds

(edited)

Jessa is becoming dangerously close to talking like a Valley Girl (or whatever it's called these days...Kardashian-speak??), pausing to say "Yeah" (Jill does it too), and inserting "like" into every sentence.

 

Maybe they will have to send her to BabyTalk Camp where she will learn to simper correctly. And use the toddler word for things whenever possible.....such as "tummy" for stomach, "ouchie" for hurt, etc, even when speaking to other adults.  And remember to never use pronouns while speaking. (Now, Josie, look at Mama. Mama wants Josie to take turns with brother. Mama is going to be watching Josie to make sure Josie does what Mama says.")

Valley Girl speak, vocal fry, and leavin' the G's off her words. EWWWW. Makes her sounds less intelligent than she probably is.

 

I really, really wish they would redo the intro to this show with Michelle introducing the family, her baby voice is just cringeworthy! Time for a change, show.

 

Jill sounded like a 13-year old girl this episode. With all of her "likes," "awesomes" and "neats".

Edited by DangerousMinds
Ripley68

Ripley68

Just rewatched the episode.  Jill is totally wearing the heart necklace throughout her talking heads.  It's hiding under her shirt. She pulls it out in the talking head after he gives it to her.  Derrick was so nervous asking her to court, I thought he looked like he was gonna vomit.  MIchelle actually had some sensible questions for Derrick besides, "one day you guys might have monkeys," or "do you like each other?"

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