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S04.E20: A Dark Knight: That Old Corpse

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Chaos erupts at the GCPD, sending Gordon on a wild goose chase for the culprit behind the mass takeover. Meanwhile, a friend of Bruce's becomes paranoid, resulting in rash and destructive behavior.

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Ok I was paying attention and I am not sure I got the twist.   Jeremiah planned the whole thing to get Jerome's followers to follow him and see how much of a failure his brother actually was and to trick Bruce and possibly kill Jim.    Ok.  Whatever.

I don't care what anyone else says I ship Lee and Riddler....and possibly Penguin and Grundy.  

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What has been Gotham's problem of late? Well, it has too many characters, too many storylines and simply way too many things happening at once.

Too many times episodes are weird pastiches of events that, more often than not, just don't make sene at the end because it's just a blur...and not a good one.

So what made tonight work?

It's simple- instead of going in 100 different directions with 300 different events, they stuck with Jerome's followers taking over the GCPD and Jim having to scramble to save Bruce and its resultant implications. Sure, there were side plots involving Ed and Oswald, but they were rather insignificant.

No...this was about Jerome metaphorically rising from the dead...maybe literally, if that video is to be believed.

Jeremiah looks like he could be a lot of fun, and he and Ecco make a fine pair. Harley and The Clown? We'll see.

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He was a plot follower for most of the episode, in the background when he did appear. That said, there were flashes of that good old fashioned Bullock charm while he was handling the weapons, and I could probably watch Bullock electrocute villains all day.

Looks like next week he'll get heavier focus with Jim in trouble, so that may be Bullock's moment.

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Yeah, really good episode tonight I thought. I know there are people out there who don't like the Jerome/Jeremiah storyline but I think they're in the minority. Cameron Monaghan is really nailing both roles-and yeah, there are serious differences between the two characters. Jerome reminds me more of Nicholson's Jack Napier/Joker while Jeremiah seems closer to Heath Ledger's "The Dark Knight" Joker. I've been loving both performances and I look forward to seeing how that storyline progresses.

Probably in a minority here but I really love Riddler/Lee as a 'ship.' At this point, I'm not sure if it's her playing him, him playing her, or both of them playing each other but it's really fun to watch.

Jim remains the least interesting character on this show but at least he's showing the signs of somebody with a talent for command. He's easily the most productive of "Gothams" police captains in recent memory.

The storyline with Jeremiah and Bruce was clever and very well done and reminds me of the Joker's speech to Batman in "The Dark Knight" about Batman completing him. I actually believe Jeremiah when he said that Bruce was his best friend. It's going to create a really interesting dynamic over the course of the rest of this show. Assuming of course we get any more.

9/10

Edited by Philbert
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As crazy as it is, I do think that Jeremiah thinks of Bruce as his best friend, which certainly lines up with a lot of iterations of the Joker. He ends up being obsessed with Batman, wants to keep their "game" going forever, and I can see how that happens here. I really do love Cameron Monaghan in these roles, its really fascinating to see the different ways he plays Jerome and Jeremiah. The crazy gas REALLY messed him the hell up. 

The weirdo minions are so weird, even the Riddler thinks they're too much. I admit it, I can kind of get behind Lee and Ed. Just a little bit. I got weird taste, what can I say.

Stuffing chicken bones into a guys nose is such a weirdly specific way to torture someone. 

"Looks like my old apartment!" Oh Harvey, always there to give perspective. 

Edited by tennisgurl
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1 hour ago, Philbert said:

Cameron Monaghan is really nailing both roles-and yeah, there are serious differences between the two characters.

I agree. It's really showing his acting depth- the kid has a bright future by the looks of it.

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Definitely seems like they're making Jeremiah less like Jerome's crazed, Heath Ledger-like Joker, and more of a cool, collective, but still psychopathic one.  Cameron Monaghan really is doing a great job at nailing the differences.  And I like that he seems to have a bizarre obsession with Bruce, just like the Joker did with Batman.

I almost feel bad for Jim, at this point.  He was actually prepared that the GCPD attack was just a distraction, but he still ends up getting played.  Of course, I doubt he's actually dead, but he really is always five steps behind.

 At this point, I don't care: I totally ship The Riddler and Lee.  And for whatever reason, Morena Baccarin was looking extra great tonight, which is saying something since she's breathtaking in general.

I like that Oswald's approach now is basically "Lets just wait till the crazies do something crazy, and then take advantage of it!"  It really is like he's become the new Carmine Falcone-ish "reasonable criminal" of Gotham.

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Damn, this show is awesome. Just go Mach 2 and don't even think about the walls.

Seriously, how funny was it for Riddler to open up the GCPD truck, get information from some putz, then leave him and his prisoner pals behind. Next moment: Penguin does the same thing . . . dragging the dazed bastard out and closing the door. "Aren't you tired of being wrong?" Classic.

I got fooled to think that Jeremiah had a chance. Nope . . . he skids into the crazy, turns his girl Friday a psudeo-Harley Quinn, then plays Jerome's hardcore fanbase like a fiddle. And Bruce fell for it. Not that Bruce is dumb . . .he just tried to think of best in people. And now Jeremiah is gonna blow up Gotham City with revolutionary tech. Meanwhile, Ra's is watching, all, "Wow, why was I brought back from the dead? I am totally superfluous. Meanwhile I should give my Magic Light back to Barbara. She's crazy. That's more valuable here than experience."

What else . . . .Oswald and Butch hanging out like an old married couple. Ed immediately ordering his crew to a costume shop to infiltrate the "wake." Jim and Harv discretely shocking some asshole in a car trunk. And the unexpected delight that is Edslie. Edlee? Riddlee? Still though, Butch getting ready to shove chicken bones up a guy's nose, with Oswald looking really into the idea.

Edited by Lantern7
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This was pretty darn good. I loved that Jeremiah was pretty much faking it the whole time to line everything up for his plans. And I love how much inspiration this show takes from the Burton Batman movies.

I’m still not into what’s going on with Lee. Like, girl, just admit you enjoy being bad and quit acting like you have discovered some sort of new-fangled way to be a hero. I get there’s something Batman-esque about her “Look at what you can accomplish when you aren’t hobbled by the law!” approach, but it still sounds short-sighted and kinda stupid. You aren’t going to fix poverty and the myriad of social problems that come with it by robbing a bank.

But even worse is Jim. Again. Dude - she admitted to robbing a bank. Book. Her. Be a cop. But apparently you can get away with a crime if Jim Gordon is still hung up on you. Or, as another example, you can stab a guy in the head with an ice pick in front of several witnesses and Jim Gordon won’t even ask about it, but if the lady he’s donking accuses you of something with zero physical evidence, you’ll end up in the pokey for a crime you didn’t commit. Again. Like the last time Jim Gordon locked you up. Lee was right about one thing - the law doesn’t matter in Gotham and it’s because the GCPD sucks. Jim is the best one there and he is a seriously shitty cop.

Oswald and Butch are fun together. I had forgotten that they were kinda fun back in season two.

Didn't miss Barbara and her ninja army at all.

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I hated this episode. I'm so tired of CM's characters and all of their ridiculousness. I will never see either of these twins as The Joker.

I hate what CM is doing with his voice for Jerimiah.

Only part for me worth watching was Lee & Ed.

I hope Barbara is back next week.

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I was pleasantly surprised that when Lee was knocked out when she banged her head on the fire extinguisher, that she did not have amnesia.  I was also pleasantly surprised that her personality didn't change by hitting her head either.  Just temporarily knocked unconscious and woke up as good as new.

I did enjoy the prisoners that were locked in the van thinking that both The Riddler and Penguin were there to release them.  Nope, just looking for info.

Ed and Lee are both really good together.  I like those two a lot.  Even Ed's clown costume was all sorts of fun.  Yes, it was silly, but this show doesn't have to be totally dark and gloomy all of the time. 

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9 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Definitely seems like they're making Jeremiah less like Jerome's crazed, Heath Ledger-like Joker, and more of a cool, collective, but still psychopathic one. 

If they are going in that direction with Jeremiah, then I find that infinitely more watchable than the Jerome version of the Joker.  I hated the Jerome version.

Butch and Penguin were pretty good together this episode. 

I do hope Barbara comes back soon along with Selina and Tabitha.  

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6 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I was pleasantly surprised that when Lee was knocked out when she banged her head on the fire extinguisher, that she did not have amnesia.  I was also pleasantly surprised that her personality didn't change by hitting her head either.  Just temporarily knocked unconscious and woke up as good as new.

I thought the same thing.  I was like...oh no this is how they make bad lee good.  Booooo!!!!!

7 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Ed and Lee are both really good together.  I like those two a lot.  Even Ed's clown costume was all sorts of fun.  Yes, it was silly, but this show doesn't have to be totally dark and gloomy all of the time. 

I know a lot of people are stuck on the Penguin/Riddler pairing but that always seemed like a fun doomed to failure pairing to me.  I like Lee and Riddler because they understand each other and like each other’s dark bits.  

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So Jeremiah is essentially the Joker and Ecco is his Not Quite Harley Quinn. Don't they make for a lovely pairing?

I think if Jeremiah had been introduced earlier in the season and we had seen a friendship between him and Bruce further on, it would've really sold his 'reveal' at the graveyard all that bit more.

Still, props to Cameron Monaghan for continuing to make both Jerome and Jeremiah very different characters. Jeremiah's quiet menace is definitely selling him as a good threat too.

I assume it was his followers who attacked Alfred, unless it was something/one else.

Oswald and Butch are a good team and so are Leslie and Nygma at this point too, 8/10

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2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

If they are going in that direction with Jeremiah, then I find that infinitely more watchable than the Jerome version of the Joker.  I hated the Jerome version.

 

I'd be interested in knowing your opinion of Jack Nicholson's Joker then (assuming you've seen the 89' "Batman") because Cameron's Jerome really reminded me of that performance. On the other hand, his Jeremiah strikes me as being much closer to Ledger's Joker in "The Dark Knight," which I think is really awesome. This is a really talented actor who is taking a truly iconic role that's been played by some true acting legends and making it his own.

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53 minutes ago, Philbert said:

I'd be interested in knowing your opinion of Jack Nicholson's Joker then (assuming you've seen the 89' "Batman") because Cameron's Jerome really reminded me of that performance. On the other hand, his Jeremiah strikes me as being much closer to Ledger's Joker in "The Dark Knight," which I think is really awesome. This is a really talented actor who is taking a truly iconic role that's been played by some true acting legends and making it his own.

Jerome's Joker seems much more like Ledger's IMO. Brilliant, but steeped in anarchy. They don't really have a plan beyond causing chaos. It's all dynamite and gasoline. More so he seems very concerned with dragging Gordon and Bruce into the muck with him, very similar to how Ledger's Joker was seeking to corrupt Harvey Dent and Batman. He's big and brash and unapologetic.  

Jeremiah's Joker seems much more like the Joker from The Dark Knight Returns (the comic that partially inspired Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice). In that comic 

Spoiler

The Joker feigns sanity in order to get onto a talk show. He then murders everybody in order to set up a final confrontation with a 55 year old Batman, who he frames for murder by committing suicide. 

He's very clearly insane. But he has a very calculated and well thought out plan, something Ledger's Joker would never even bother with. He's understated and quiet and Machiavellian when the situation calls for it. He's also very practical, he's not going to act out a magic trick and shove a pencil in your eye socket, he's going to casually shoot you. 

Edited by Maximum Taco
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I was laughing so hard at 'The Riddler! We're saved!' *shuts door* 'Penguin! We're saved!' *grabs the guy and shuts door* - That's what I love about this show, it can be dramatic, emotional and gory but also laugh out loud all in the same episode.

I also love that Riddler, who is very well known in Gotham, can just walk around in a bright green suit in front of the police station and lots of press and no one bats an eye.

I love how the cops threw tear gas into the station and then they just walked right into the gas without masks without suffering any ill effects.

Okay I'm liking new Joker Jeremiah - he seems much colder and more evil than Jerome which is saying something! I'm guessing he will be the cause of the no man's land event coming up. I am wondering though when he'll get his smile since that's obviously such a big part of the Joker character. Does something else happen to him?

Ecco is definitely Harley Quinn then. I quite like that.

I actually didn't expect the Jerome videos to have been Jeremiah all along so they got me there! I love that I just accepted that Jerome would have done something like that before he died.

What the hell happened to Alfred?!

And Bruce funded Jeremiah's energy bombs - that might explain why Bruce feels solely responsible for what happens to Gotham in the future.

Edited by superloislane
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15 hours ago, Philbert said:

Jerome reminds me more of Nicholson's Jack Napier/Joker while Jeremiah seems closer to Heath Ledger's "The Dark Knight" Joker.

I agree - I see Jerome as being like Nicholson's crazy 'let's spray paint paintings and use a laughing gas!' Joker, while Jeremiah is more Ledger's 'everything he does looks randomly crazy but is actually incredibly well coordinated for psychological torture' Joker.

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2 hours ago, Philbert said:

I'd be interested in knowing your opinion of Jack Nicholson's Joker then (assuming you've seen the 89' "Batman") because Cameron's Jerome really reminded me of that performance. On the other hand, his Jeremiah strikes me as being much closer to Ledger's Joker in "The Dark Knight," which I think is really awesome. This is a really talented actor who is taking a truly iconic role that's been played by some true acting legends and making it his own.

I haven't seen the Nicholson's version of the Joker in well over twenty years.  My memory has always been all kinds of horrible in general.  Going back twenty years plus is just impossible for me to remember anything when it comes to movies.  I apologize for that.  I wish my memory was better, but unfortunately I have to deal with the cards I have been dealt.

I never saw the Ledger version.

I just can't handle any version of the Joker where he goes off the rails all of the time.  Some level of chaos is fine, just not total chaos.  He has to have some points of stability and clarity.

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17 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

 

5aebba3cf0d22_BullockMeter5.png.cd58b49027116958b9cadead2c22b5e6.png

I thought this was referring to the number of times the GCPD main office was trashed by mobs this season.

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1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

 

I just can't handle any version of the Joker where he goes off the rails all of the time.  Some level of chaos is fine, just not total chaos.  He has to have some points of stability and clarity.

The point of Ledger's performance in "The Dark Knight" is that he NEVER goes off the rails. Everything he does is planned well in advance. I won't go into the details since you haven't seen it but while he's clearly a sociopath and an anarchist, he's not remotely psychotic. He's completely in touch with reality, he's merely trying to change it. 

Spoiler

And as many critics of the film have pointed out, he actually wins. He utterly destroys Harvey Dent and sends Batman into exile and by the beginning of the third film, Bruce Wayne is essentially a broken man.

Edited by Philbert
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2 hours ago, AAEBoiler said:

I thought this was referring to the number of times the GCPD main office was trashed by mobs this season.

I think the number is higher than 5 there. :P

It's the Bullock Meter, or the rating for how influential Bullock was in the episode. I sort of co-opted it from the Criminal Minds forum because someone there has a "Reid Meter" (for Doctor Spencer Reid) and since Bullock is my favourite (and also underused like Reid is), I brought it here. The guy who does the Reid Meter doesn't do a rating, he just makes a statement. I do a rating.

I decided a few weeks ago to represent it pictorially instead of writing it out because it looks nicer. I should add the text to make it clearer. 

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55 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

It's the Bullock Meter

Oh c'mon, I'm aware of the Bullock Meter. This isn't my first rodeo. :-)

Keep up the good work!

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1 hour ago, AAEBoiler said:

Oh c'mon, I'm aware of the Bullock Meter. This isn't my first rodeo. :-)

Keep up the good work!

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Bullock's best moment this week was grabbing himself a coffin beer. 

Ed and Lee is my ship now. I'm all aboard on the SS Nutbar.

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I've gotta say, I wasn't on board with this "meander around to a new Joker" thing at first--seemed like coals to Newcastle, to say the least. But I really do like how they pulled it off, with Jeremiah's take on his version of his brother's crazed outlook and how he's just decided that whatever he does isn't crazy because it isn't that. 

While Jerome was obviously dangerous and brilliant, he was also exhausting to be around and kept burning his own bridges while still standing on them because he couldn't control his own manias. Penguin was right in his diagnosis that Jerome, left to his own ends, would be either arrested or shot and then he could move in without having to spend all his resources trying to fight crazy. But Jeremiah? This dude is freaking SCARY. The contacts are especially upsetting: he looks like a moray eel who found a human suit. I hope Ozzy can think fast enough to maneuver around him. 

Jim Gordon, while outfoxed once again, at least didn't behave like the total dunderhead he's been in the past--his plan to trap the Jeromites was quite well thought out and it wasn't his fault he was being played. He's got to stop thinking like a cop, or team up with somebody who can move around in and do things with criminal elements that the cops can't. Who, oh who could that be, I wonder?

Harvey, never stop being you! Three great Harvey beats: 

The casual "eh, I've got the taser" shocking of the juggler in the trunk. Hee. 

The coffin beer--he snagged one for his fellow officer, too! Hee.

"This reminds me of my first apartment, where I still live." Hee. 

See, this is the Harvey we all love. I was really terrified during that first scene outside Lee's interrogation room where he was all "we could just sneak her out the back"; I literally yelled THIS IS EXACTLY THE KIND OF SHIT YOU CALLED JIM OUT ON! Seriously, you can't egg somebody on to be dirty and then bitch when they leave fingerprints around! But luckily we dropped that to move into the equally ridiculous/annoying "I get you want to be Robin Hood" thing with a woman who knowingly married into an organized crime family. Don't get me wrong, I love new Lee a thousand times more than I did her last whiny iteration, but man. She makes Harvey look like Mark Antony. 

But luckily we dropped THAT whole thing as well and got to see Riddler and his band of merry minions arrive to rescue her! Everything about this subplot was a delight: well plotted, hilarious, and a perfect antidote to the A story without dragging it down. Cory Michael Smith is a genius (so to speak) at playing the Riddler, and Lee is a genius at playing Riddler as well. The writers are doing a fantastic job of her showing just enough leg, metaphorically speaking, to keep Ed hooked while being just cynical enough to keep Riddler sitting up and wagging his tail. That kiss under the steps was great! Please don't blow this, show.

Like everyone else I adored the whole "The Riddler! We're saved! Oh. Hey, the Penguin, we're saved!" bit. That's the kind of humor the show does really well.

Bits I would like an explanation from the showrunners about:

How many damn times has the GCPD been attacked? Like, fifty? And yet they never, not once, do anything about beefing up security or even putting in a new damn door so they aren't relying on a two by four to save their lives! If I was the union rep I would be bringing this up during contract negotiations!

Jim, when you go through all the trouble of knocking out a crazy harlequin, could you PLEASE A) handcuff her, for God's sake and B) MOVE THE GIANT PAIR OF SCISSORS lying one inch away from her??? If she'd stabbed you you would have richly deserved it. 

Speaking of Ecco, what's with the no talking thing? I get not talking around the Jeromites for effect and all, but when she was alone with Jeremiah at the end why the continuation? She does talk: we saw her on her phone a few eps ago. 

So Alfred's the Highlander, right? HOW many times has this man been stabbed/punched/left in heaps of garbage/shot? He's lost more blood at this point than was ever inside his veins! 

Tear gas isn't as selective as this bunch of the best and brightest cops seem to think. Why establish gas masks for Ed and Lee while having the whole force stroll in breathing in the stuff like it's a fresh spring rain? 

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Loved this episode, and I am very impressed with Monaghan. 

 

I really do hope this show is renewed. Movies and other TV shows alike, Gotham is the best DC-based thing currently around. I also must say between this and Shield, I hope this is renewed more than I hope Shield is.

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10 minutes ago, Snookums said:

While Jerome was obviously dangerous and brilliant, he was also exhausting to be around and kept burning his own bridges while still standing on them because he couldn't control his own manias. Penguin was right in his diagnosis that Jerome, left to his own ends, would be either arrested or shot and then he could move in without having to spend all his resources trying to fight crazy. But Jeremiah? This dude is freaking SCARY. The contacts are especially upsetting: he looks like a moray eel who found a human suit. I hope Ozzy can think fast enough to maneuver around him. 

 

This is the perfect description. He really is like something else masquerading as a human. 

Oswald has been spinning his wheels and/or sidelined for the second half of the season, but I do think he is doing what he told Butch he was doing - he’s waiting for people to show their cards so he’s got a better view of the whole game. But Jeremiah is something else all together. 

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If Nicholson's Joker is point A and Ledger's Joker is point B,  Monaghan's is point C -- the next step along.  Ledger's Joker wasn't as frenetic as Nicholson's, but there was still a lot of manic energy which Monaghan doesn't have (yet???).

On 5/3/2018 at 7:23 PM, Philbert said:

I really love Riddler/Lee as a 'ship.' At this point, I'm not sure if it's her playing him, him playing her, or both of them playing each other but it's really fun to watch.

I definitely think they're playing each other -- and they both know it.

On 5/3/2018 at 8:57 PM, Lantern7 said:

Ed immediately ordering his crew to a costume shop to infiltrate the "wake".

I'm just sad that we never got to see what the fishing rod was for!

On 5/3/2018 at 10:43 PM, Kostgard said:

You aren’t going to fix poverty and the myriad of social problems that come with it by robbing a bank.

Not sure if it's true or not, but "Pretty Boy" Floyd was rumored to have destroyed mortgage records (saving the homes of the people "under water") as well as leaving money to the poor.  So, maybe, just a little.

On 5/4/2018 at 10:49 PM, Enigma X said:

Gotham is the best DC-based thing currently around.

I know it's comparing oranges and chinchillas, but I would say that Legends of Tomorrow is just as good, if not better.  It has levels of crazy that Gotham can only dream of, but it works (the season finale was AWESOME!).

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6 hours ago, jhlipton said:

I know it's comparing oranges and chinchillas, but I would say that Legends of Tomorrow is just as good, if not better.  It has levels of crazy that Gotham can only dream of, but it works (the season finale was AWESOME!).

Since these are the only 2 DC shows I still watch, I agree. 

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I'm glad other people liked this one, but I found it a little dull. For me, the trouble is they insist on threatening the main characters that we know are going to survive (Gordon, Bruce) as opposed to those who can die (Lee, Harvey)*. I mean, I can't see how Jim could possibly survive being that close to a (pseudo-)nuclear explosion, but I'm sure he will.
Was disappointed we got little development for Haley Quinn (at least I assume that was Harley Quinn). I have a vague feeling she's been around before, but for a character who canonically has one of the more interesting (if tragic) backstories, it was a bit disappointing.

On ‎04‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 4:36 AM, thuganomics85 said:

I almost feel bad for Jim, at this point.  He was actually prepared that the GCPD attack was just a distraction, but he still ends up getting played.  Of course, I doubt he's actually dead, but he really is always five steps behind.

It might help if he didn't insist on repeatedly going into danger alone! Of course, given he's essentially indestructible, it does at least mean no cops gets killed.

On ‎04‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 3:23 AM, Philbert said:

Probably in a minority here but I really love Riddler/Lee as a 'ship.' At this point, I'm not sure if it's her playing him, him playing her, or both of them playing each other but it's really fun to watch.

Not sure who's playing who in that couple, but I'm sure Lee is playing Jim (I mean, that's why she agreed to be arrested last week). Who really should know that and shouldn't fall for it. But I do love that the first thing Edd wanted to find before rescuing Lee was a costume shop. Most businesses would have abandoned Gotham years ago, but the costumiers must be thriving (when they're not getting blown up/kidnapped/smashed by rioters at least)!

* OK, I know Lee was knocked out in the GCPD, but she was completely ignored by the rioters, apparently.

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Okay, this one really made my head spin!

1. My problem with Jerimiah and Echo as Joker and Harley Quinn is they're too dour, they're great but they just don't have the spark for those characters. She's sexy though, this series is just the one if you like kickass hotties and I was amazed how handsome Cameron is as Jerimiah when he wasn't as Jerome, maybe it's the glasses?

2. Of course Jim should really recuse himself from any investigation with his ex but TIG (and SVU do it all the time). Boy, Jim can pick them, 3 out of his 4 girlfriends became Gotham crime bosses, watch out Vale! Love her line, 'You nabbed me copper!'

3. I would love to know Ed's original plan and how he was to use the props he requested? He's oddly quite cute as the clown. 

4. "Open the armoury!", hell yeah! Personally I'd have let them come until they were in a lethal force situation then blow them all away, get rid of Jerome's maniacs once and for all. 

5. The Bruce/Jerome scenes are so tense, you just don't know what's happening especially when he turns the lights out, Jeremiah is so plausible, you thought Jerome was menacing but his brother is so much cleverer.

6. Love Oz/Butch as The Odd Couple, hope we see more of them.

7. Who strangles Jerimiah on the video? Echo? Doesn't look like her arms? Is she still under Tetch's spell or is she just that devoted to Jerimiah?

8. Jim really seems to have come around to Harvey's viewpoint on torturing prisoners, TIG.

9. So who took Alfred? We assume Jerome's followers but maybe Barbara's girls? He really should open that door with a lot more caution.   

On ‎04‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 2:40 AM, Chaos Theory said:

Ok I was paying attention and I am not sure I got the twist.   Jeremiah planned the whole thing to get Jerome's followers to follow him and see how much of a failure his brother actually was and to trick Bruce and possibly kill Jim.    Ok.  Whatever.

I don't care what anyone else says I ship Lee and Riddler....and possibly Penguin and Grundy.  

Lee and Ed or Lee and The Riddler?

Edited by Joe Hellandback
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On ‎04‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 2:49 AM, Danielg342 said:

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What has been Gotham's problem of late? Well, it has too many characters, too many storylines and simply way too many things happening at once.

Too many times episodes are weird pastiches of events that, more often than not, just don't make sene at the end because it's just a blur...and not a good one.

So what made tonight work?

It's simple- instead of going in 100 different directions with 300 different events, they stuck with Jerome's followers taking over the GCPD and Jim having to scramble to save Bruce and its resultant implications. Sure, there were side plots involving Ed and Oswald, but they were rather insignificant.

No...this was about Jerome metaphorically rising from the dead...maybe literally, if that video is to be believed.

Jeremiah looks like he could be a lot of fun, and he and Ecco make a fine pair. Harley and The Clown? We'll see.

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He was a plot follower for most of the episode, in the background when he did appear. That said, there were flashes of that good old fashioned Bullock charm while he was handling the weapons, and I could probably watch Bullock electrocute villains all day.

Looks like next week he'll get heavier focus with Jim in trouble, so that may be Bullock's moment.

Oh I thought this was the best Bullock ep in a long time, his glee at opening the armoury, his snagging one of the coffin beers, his use of the trunk and taking charge of reclaiming the GCPD, his face off with Jim and suggesting they just let Lee go, the apartment gag.

Edited by Joe Hellandback

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On ‎04‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 6:49 PM, superloislane said:

I also love that Riddler, who is very well known in Gotham, can just walk around in a bright green suit in front of the police station and lots of press and no one bats an eye.

I love how the cops threw tear gas into the station and then they just walked right into the gas without masks without suffering any ill effects.

Ecco is definitely Harley Quinn then. I quite like that.

I actually didn't expect the Jerome videos to have been Jeremiah all along so they got me there! I love that I just accepted that Jerome would have done something like that before he died.

What the hell happened to Alfred?!

And Bruce funded Jeremiah's energy bombs - that might explain why Bruce feels solely responsible for what happens to Gotham in the future.

Well, TIG! Also the cops get CS'd every year as part of their training so they develop an immunity. Ecco as Harley? Let's hear her talk in a NY accent and say 'Puddin' first. 

On ‎04‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 10:38 PM, Danielg342 said:

I think the number is higher than 5 there. :P

It's the Bullock Meter, or the rating for how influential Bullock was in the episode. I sort of co-opted it from the Criminal Minds forum because someone there has a "Reid Meter" (for Doctor Spencer Reid) and since Bullock is my favourite (and also underused like Reid is), I brought it here. The guy who does the Reid Meter doesn't do a rating, he just makes a statement. I do a rating.

I decided a few weeks ago to represent it pictorially instead of writing it out because it looks nicer. I should add the text to make it clearer. 

Surely Reid must be the longest serving CM character by now?

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On ‎05‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 6:38 AM, Snookums said:

How many damn times has the GCPD been attacked? Like, fifty? And yet they never, not once, do anything about beefing up security or even putting in a new damn door so they aren't relying on a two by four to save their lives! If I was the union rep I would be bringing this up during contract negotiations!

Jim, when you go through all the trouble of knocking out a crazy harlequin, could you PLEASE A) handcuff her, for God's sake and B) MOVE THE GIANT PAIR OF SCISSORS lying one inch away from her??? If she'd stabbed you you would have richly deserved it. 

Speaking of Ecco, what's with the no talking thing? I get not talking around the Jeromites for effect and all, but when she was alone with Jeremiah at the end why the continuation? She does talk: we saw her on her phone a few eps ago. 

So Alfred's the Highlander, right? HOW many times has this man been stabbed/punched/left in heaps of garbage/shot? He's lost more blood at this point than was ever inside his veins! 

Tear gas isn't as selective as this bunch of the best and brightest cops seem to think. Why establish gas masks for Ed and Lee while having the whole force stroll in breathing in the stuff like it's a fresh spring rain? 

1. The Mayor probably wouldn't pay up to fortify the station house. 

2. Oh but that's such a TV/movie cliché, put people down and they stay down, I guess these shows don't have a police advisor? Equally you notice that people are allowed to walk in and look around at will?

3. I guess she doesn't talk because they want to do a big reveal when she does speak and comes up with a thick Brooklyn accent?

4. Alfred was Sass, Enough said.

5. In the  police/military you regularly get CS'd at yearly refresher training so you build up a tolerance.  

Edited by Joe Hellandback
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1 hour ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Surely Reid must be the longest serving CM character by now?

He is. He's the only regular character left from the pilot, "Extreme Aggressor". Garcia was in that episode too but she was only billed as a guest star.

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I'm glad Jeremiah's Joker is a tad different, but the transition was too quick.  I didn't buy that Bruce had become friends with him between this episode and the last.  Was he lying when he said Jerome's gas did nothing to him?  I suppose so, since he wasn't a psychopath before.  

Overall, the episode was alright.  

The Riddler dressing up as a clown was amusing.  I still like Lee and Riddler together.

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