S03.E20: The Angel of San Bernardino

[enoughcats]

7 hours ago, Rushmoras said:

Do you mean they do not have 10 PM slot (

Fox, INC, made the decision to air local late night news an hour earlier everywhere they broadcast.  They listened when people complained that they couldn't have local news and weather on so late that the audience were already in bed, asleep.   They took into account that commuter morning times start a lot earlier than they did in the 50s, etc. If you start your drive at 6am, you are up at least half an hour before that and watching news that ends at 11:30 only gives six hours sleep.  

[CheshireCat]

8 hours ago, CuddlerOfDragons said:

It's that who's to blame?  The showrunner.  Right, OK then, I'll say sorry to the writers, if it's not their fault.

I don't know. I just know that the showrunner decides the overall plot for the season and he's ultimately deciding where every character goes that season/what stories the characters have. (Considering, those must have been really short talks he had with each actor before the start of the season...)

 

11 hours ago, enoughcats said:

Wasn't there a scene in a past Lucifer when he talked about how it was not possible for him to get drunk?  Or at least he couldn't get ton on a bender stage?  If booze wouldn't have impaired the Lucifer of previous seasons, why should we believe that cocaine etc. would do much beyond giving him a short lived buzz?

Yes, there was. I was wondering about that myself. It was in the episode in which the bride was killed. Lucifer shows up drunk or high or both. He's a little tipsy, I guess, but he tells Chloe that he can't get drunk or something because of his celestial metabolism.

[hoopznyo]

10 minutes ago, CheshireCat said:

Yes, there was. I was wondering about that myself. It was in the episode in which the bride was killed. Lucifer shows up drunk or high or both. He's a little tipsy, I guess, but he tells Chloe that he can't get drunk or something because of his celestial metabolism.

I only watched bits of this episode so far but was wondering the same thing. Which also led to me wondering --  does Lucifer need to sleep as a celestial immortal being? In season 1, when they showed him in bed -- the humans were sleeping but he was lying there awake (unless I am mis-remembering)

[Gummo]

2 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

he tells Chloe that he can't get drunk or something because of his celestial metabolism.

 

1 hour ago, hoopznyo said:

does Lucifer need to sleep as a celestial immortal being? In season 1, when they showed him in bed -- the humans were sleeping but he was lying there awake (unless I am mis-remembering)

Consistency, continuity, character, who needs'em! 

This show does, that's who.

Season 1 Lucifer would have curled his lip at this season's sad-sack Lucifer, pummeling him with one hand while playing smooth cocktail jazz at the piano with the other, all while solving a murder and fucking his therapist.

I miss that Lucifer.

[Loandbehold]

12 hours ago, Rushmoras said:

Um, care to elaborate? Do you mean they do not have 10 PM slot (no one is letting them to have it, which is absurd, because in my country, every TV Channel can decided on their own in which hours of the day/night to air something) or they do not have a 10 PM slot available, cause they are airing something else at that time?

In the US, Fox only runs 2 hours of shows on Prime Time Monday - Friday. On the east coast, that's 8-10 PM. The other three major networks run prime time from 8-11 PM I believe FOX does have 3 hours of prime time on Sundays, from 7-10 PM.

[CuddlerOfDragons]

3 hours ago, Gummo said:

 

Consistency, continuity, character, who needs'em! 

This show does, that's who.

Season 1 Lucifer would have curled his lip at this season's sad-sack Lucifer, pummeling him with one hand while playing smooth cocktail jazz at the piano with the other, all while solving a murder and fucking his therapist.

I miss that Lucifer.

Nice image.  I miss him too.

[JonasArm]

On 18/04/2018 at 10:19 AM, jhlipton said:

So, Amenadiel says "people can't handle being shown divinity".  Bull.  Yes, it threw her for a loop at first, but Linda has seen but Lucifer and the Goddess Mother and has survived.  Obviously people can handle it if shown right.

In in the first season when rules where being established it was true, the man who saw Lucy's wwings could not come back. But they have since then thrown all their rules out the windows.

On 18/04/2018 at 11:30 AM, CuddlerOfDragons said:

Also, when Charlotte goes back to hell, she'll know where she is and that it's not real; will she be the first to just walk out?  She could end up running the place!!

If they remain consistent she won't be able to escape. Lucifer himself was trapped in there even if he knew it wasn't really his brother he was facing, guilt was too strong.

[CuddlerOfDragons]

Good point, then again, does Charlotte feel guilt?  She could probably argue her way out.

[xander874]

I am sure that landing Tricia Helfer was a "get" for the show, but I hope they write her off after this season. She serves no purpose except as the occasional love interest for Dan and her storyline is stupid. Sure, Charlotte gets to be let in on the secret of angels but Chloe is still left out in the cold. This makes no sense. Unless they have Charlotte and Pierce's story lines merge at the end, this season has been a whole bunch of dead air.

Show, please go back to basics next season and concentrate on Lucifer and not these random characters. I don't hate Chloe as much as others do, and really want them to just focus on what her deal is. Why they have delayed it for 3 seasons is beyond me.

[storyskip]

12 minutes ago, xander874 said:

I am sure that landing Tricia Helfer was a "get" for the show, but I hope they write her off after this season. She serves no purpose except as the occasional love interest for Dan and her storyline is stupid. Sure, Charlotte gets to be let in on the secret of angels but Chloe is still left out in the cold. This makes no sense. Unless they have Charlotte and Pierce's story lines merge at the end, this season has been a whole bunch of dead air.

Show, please go back to basics next season and concentrate on Lucifer and not these random characters. I don't hate Chloe as much as others do, and really want them to just focus on what her deal is. Why they have delayed it for 3 seasons is beyond me.

From your fingertips to the writers' ears!

That, actually, would be a good direction for those two characters, since we the audience appear to be watching the redemption arcs of these two characters.  It could be an interesting set up to hammer home the idea into Lucifer's thick skull that even he could be forgiven; no tricks as a step in his continued character development arc.

Though since I don't believe Pierce and Charlotte have every had any interaction beyond a very brief passing, I'm not holding my breath.

[NJRadioGuy]

Something's that's far more of an interesting possibility now is that Chloe slept with a biblical character (Cain), what happens if she's pregnant with celestial offspring? And how would that affect Luci? I hope this doesn't happen, but knowing American network TV, I expect precisely this.

[UNOSEZ]

1 hour ago, NJRadioGuy said:

Something's that's far more of an interesting possibility now is that Chloe slept with a biblical character (Cain), what happens if she's pregnant with celestial offspring? And how would that affect Luci? I hope this doesn't happen, but knowing American network TV, I expect precisely this.

I'd rather they do that with Linda if anyone... 

[theatremouse]

I don't think Cain is "celestial". He's just...undead....and cursed (or not anymore since the last five seconds of this episode).

[juliet73]

I'm so over this "love triangle" plot with Lucifer, Chloe and Cain. It's totally bringing down the entire show. Chloe is such a wet noodle - I don't understand the attraction. At this point, I'm just watching for Tom Ellis.  I think he is excellent!  He is so underrated!

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 4/17/2018 at 2:06 AM, Bobbin said:

How far have the storyline and the characters strayed from the source?

Not a spoiler: There is about a 1% relationship.  There are characters in both named Lucifer & Mazikeen, both of whom left Hell for earth.

On 4/15/2018 at 10:22 PM, DEL901 said:

Maze’s betrayal, Amenidial’s regrets, Pierce’s redemption, Chloe’s betrayal

Whom did Chloe betray?  Or do you mean someone betrayed her?

On 4/16/2018 at 9:28 PM, enoughcats said:

Starry eyed Chloe is risking her career and her livlihood; screwing her boss during working hours in a closet next to colleagues just gets them both fired.  Only one co-worker noticed?  Not bloody likely only one noticed.  

How did Ella know that the disruption in her lab was cause by Pierce and Chloe in the evidence closet?  Has it happened before and she checked out the source through the closet's clear glass windows?  Gross.  Speaking of which, the "you have DNA on your shirt" fakeout was funny."

On 4/16/2018 at 9:43 PM, Ria said:

How tragic her heart was broken by a guy she’s dated for like a month. 

Speaking of which, is there no middle ground between "Trixie, I've been dating a guy named Marcus, and that's why I've been really happy recently, and he's coming over for chocolate cake so you can meet him" and "Trixie, how was the birthday party?  You know that guy named Marcus I told you I'd been dating, as a result of which I've been really happy recently? Well, this is him and he brought us a chocolate cake that  we're going to have for breakfast after he spends the night."  Trixie spends many nights with Dan; maybe half her nights.  Can't Chloe hold off until then? (I know that Pierce didn't wind up spending the night, but that was Chloe's plan.)

Edited April 22, 2018 by ItCouldBeWorse

[vavera4ka]

On ‎4‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 10:18 AM, headhoncho said:

well great, now I miss Bones! LOL

I might have googled to see where on my subscribed services I can binge on some Bones  episodes lol

On ‎4‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 6:19 AM, Ria said:

 

I really hate the idea that Cain, who has lived for thousands of years, has never truly loved before or performed a selfless act until the super special Chloe comes along. I’m not saying you’re wrong, the show might go that way. But I thought Cain wanted to die because he has continually lost all those he loved while he lives on. 

 

I think it wasn't a selfless act per se, but giving up THE MOST DESIRED thing for the sake of someone else. I'm sure he has done selfless stuff before, as character does appear to be caring enough with a healthy set of morals. But in never was consciously to walk away from what he'd think be his redemption.

[CheshireCat]

1 hour ago, vavera4ka said:

I think it wasn't a selfless act per se, but giving up THE MOST DESIRED thing for the sake of someone else. I'm sure he has done selfless stuff before, as character does appear to be caring enough with a healthy set of morals. But in never was consciously to walk away from what he'd think be his redemption.

This whole Cain thing lacks some logic, in my opinion. Cain's most desired thing is/was to die. He gave up Chloe and his plan but why would that automatically mean that he gives up his desire to die? I don't think he does. All that it means is that he gave up one plan to achieve his goal but he doesn't even know if his plan had worked. An argument can be made that he gave up his plan in order to spare someone, so Cain expressed feelings for Chloe when he decided to walk out on her instead of using her but are we really supposed to believe that he hasn't had some feelings/cared for anyone ever since he's been on earth?

Or did Chloe awaken a desire to live inside of him?

[vavera4ka]

1 hour ago, CheshireCat said:

This whole Cain thing lacks some logic, in my opinion. Cain's most desired thing is/was to die. He gave up Chloe and his plan but why would that automatically mean that he gives up his desire to die? I don't think he does. All that it means is that he gave up one plan to achieve his goal but he doesn't even know if his plan had worked. An argument can be made that he gave up his plan in order to spare someone, so Cain expressed feelings for Chloe when he decided to walk out on her instead of using her but are we really supposed to believe that he hasn't had some feelings/cared for anyone ever since he's been on earth?

Or did Chloe awaken a desire to live inside of him?

bolded 1

maybe that was enough? He thought he had it solved and gave up on it even though it was a wrong plan... maybe he never gave up on the plan... that he thought would work... for the sake of another human being (i'm trying here lol I agree logic is lacking... )

 

bolded 2

That's an interesting take on it too. He finally has someone to live for and he becomes mortal... but then again... thousands of years and Chloe is THAT special, that in all that time there wasn't one woman (or a man lol I don't judge) that he was glad to be alive for and wanted to live for?

Edited April 20, 2018 by vavera4ka

[CheshireCat]

57 minutes ago, vavera4ka said:

That's an interesting take on it too. He finally has someone to live for and he becomes mortal... but then again... thousands of years and Chloe is THAT special, that in all that time there wasn't one woman (or a man lol I don't judge) that he was glad to be alive for and wanted to live for?

It might not be Chloe he wants to live for although, I don't know why she'd change his outlook on life, really. To be honest, it was more of a confused suggestion than one that I think makes more sense because it all seems flawed at the moment. Maybe it'll make more sense in the coming episodes but with the way the show has been going, I'm not holding my breath. And it kind of pains me to say that because it was such a good show. But I guess, that happens when you decide to withhold a key detail from one of the characters for no other reason than to draw it out/no obvious plot points. Inevitably, it starts to turn in circles and everything else stagnates because the story just can't move forward.

[thuganomics85]

Finally got around to this episode.  I remember when this show used to be something I counted down too and was bummed whenever I couldn't watch it live, but the thrill really seems to be gone this season.

At this point, anything involving Chloe and Pierce is a fail for me.  It feels like they only barely started dating, but now they're not only into the "bang in the evidence room" phrase of their relationship (because the by the books Chloe from previous seasons would totally be cool with just having sex at the workplace), but even at the point where they are falling in love?  Which causes Pierce to suddenly not want to go through with his plan, so he dumps her, and that now made her all depressed?  But then his mark goes anyway?  Sure, show.  Whatever you say.

Meanwhile, Lucifer is spiraling out of control because he thinks he's sleepwalking.... err, flying, and saving people and basically thinks his dad is fucking with him again, only for it to actually be Maze, because she's still pissed at him for not taking her back to Hell.  How lame.

Charlotte has also just decided to say "Fuck it", now that she knows the truth and is acting a fool, because she thinks she's going to Hell no matter what.

Dan briefly shows up for about two scenes.  Poor Dan.

Case of the week: I called the killer early on, but I did get a kick out of the idea of an agency that is made up of actors who are hired to play roles of friends, spouses, and whatnot in real life, and that the actor Lucifer recognized from an episode of Bones, was actually the real actor.

Definitely at the phrase were I've accepted this season is going to be a disappointment, so my hope is to power through this and, if it gets renewed, the TPTB will go back to the drawling board, and shake things up for the better next (potential) season.

[jhlipton]

On 4/21/2018 at 2:02 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Charlotte has also just decided to say "Fuck it", now that she knows the truth and is acting a fool, because she thinks she's going to Hell no matter what.

This points out one of the BIG problems of the "fire-and-brimstone" Hell:  If you commit any sin, no matter how small, and don't (or can't) repent, you're getting the same punishment as the person who committed HUGE sins all their life.  If fear of Hell is all that's keeping you on the straight and narrow, why not do whatever you want, regardless of whether it is a sin or not.

[Pindrop]

If you have to have a love triangle plot, as these shows invariably do, there was an interesting premise at the core of this, it is just a shame it all felt so rushed that none of it rang true. Why Chloe Anti-charisma gets so much attention I will never understand; we are constantly told how special she is, but we are only every shown a one-dimensional tedious, disapproving straight-man; she has become a plot device around which the antics of the other characters can revolve, and nothing more.

On a positive note, all of the supernatural characters actually got some of their threat back, which is long over due. Even Amanediel was enjoyably casually dismissive of humans in his brief appearance. 

As usual there are too many characters and too many B-plots, which just gives the impression of scenes being shoe-horned in to remind you that certain characters still exist.   

Edited April 23, 2018 by Pindrop

[wilnil]

On ‎4‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 5:02 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Charlotte has also just decided to say "Fuck it", now that she knows the truth and is acting a fool, because she thinks she's going to Hell no matter what.

Her problem was the opposite: She thought that knowing two angels meant they could get her into Heaven regardless of how she acted, until Amenadiel and Lucifer told her that isn't how it works. Now she's back to having to worry about her actions again.

[CheshireCat]

3 hours ago, Pindrop said:

If you have to have a love triangle plot, as these shows invariably do, there was an interesting premise at the core of this, it is just a shame it all felt so rushed that none of it rang true. Why Chloe Anti-charisma gets so much attention I will never understand; we are constantly told how special she is, but we are only every shown a one-dimensional tedious, disapproving straight-man; she has become a plot device around which the antics of the other characters can revolve, and nothing more.

This is what is bothering me the most about it, I think (apart from the fact that they characters stagnated). But I'm not seeing it. I'm not seeing her chemistry with Lucifer and I'm not seeing it with Cain, and we were told about the spark between Cain and Chloe instead of seeing a development. But if I don't see it, I can't believe that this is real, so it becomes even more ridiculous as the love triangle already is.

[Bruinsfan]

Is there anyone who doesn't think Lucifer and Pierce/Cain had better chemistry with each other than either have with Chloe?

 

On 4/17/2018 at 6:34 PM, CheshireCat said:

What bothers me is that at this point Chloe would either have to subconsciously believe Lucifer or think he's got a screw lose. But she can't not believe him and at the same time not do anything anymore. It's just not credible. So, there needs to be something that she does that shows that it's either or but she needs to do something.  

I liked it best during that Season 1 episode when the little hints and bits of evidence were rattling around in her subconscious; it looked for a minute like something she saw reviewing that videotape convinced her Lucifer actually is who/what he says and left her horrorstruck.

[CheshireCat]

6 minutes ago, Bruinsfan said:

Is there anyone who doesn't think Lucifer and Pierce/Cain had better chemistry with each other than either have with Chloe?

This! (And what would have been so bad if they had gone that route and solved Cain's problem that way?) If Lucifer is bisexual, why can't Cain be, too? It didn't occur to me before but it currently seems as if everyone but Lucifer and Maze (the beings from Hell) is straight.

 

6 minutes ago, Bruinsfan said:

I liked it best during that Season 1 episode when the little hints and bits of evidence were rattling around in her subconscious; it looked for a minute like something she saw reviewing that videotape convinced her Lucifer actually is who/what he says and left her horrorstruck.

Yes, that was great. They should have kept going that route and let the chips fall where they may. It would also have meant that they couldn't have avoided the supernatural aspects of the show as they are avoiding it now.

[Fireball]

4 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

Is there anyone who doesn't think Lucifer and Pierce/Cain had better chemistry with each other than either have with Chloe?

I'm right there with you. I thought Lucifer & Pierce had so much more chemistry; however, nobody really has chemistry with Chloe IMO.  

4 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

This! (And what would have been so bad if they had gone that route and solved Cain's problem that way?) If Lucifer is bisexual, why can't Cain be, too? It didn't occur to me before but it currently seems as if everyone but Lucifer and Maze (the beings from Hell) is straight.

I didn't notice this until you pointed it out and I don't like it. Are the writers trying to say something to the affect of only people from hell are bisexual? Not cool show not cool at all.

[Pindrop]

12 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

Is there anyone who doesn't think Lucifer and Pierce/Cain had better chemistry with each other than either have with Chloe?

 

I liked it best during that Season 1 episode when the little hints and bits of evidence were rattling around in her subconscious; it looked for a minute like something she saw reviewing that videotape convinced her Lucifer actually is who/what he says and left her horrorstruck.

Great. Exactly this.

Noone has chemistry with Chloe because she has become a plot device with no more personality than any other mcguffin, be it an inanimate object or otherwise.

The Lucifer/Cain (b)romance was so much more believable and entertaining than either of their relationships with Chloe.

Your second point: Lucifer was also a far more interesting character in season 1 because he had threat and was morally gray. Now he has become this strange fish-out-of-water bumbling but harmless buffoon, which was a horrible direction to take him.

Edited April 24, 2018 by Pindrop

[ganesh]

I don't watch Bones, but I know of the show, and that was a funny meta.