S06.E02: Tchaikovsky

[jjj]

Elizabeth was more concerned that her tolerance would increase to the point that the morphine would not work, which is a concern.  And there are multiple hospice nurses helping the artist -- so Elizabeth covers only a few of the shifts, so it is hard for Elizabeth to know what is happening in the other shifts.   Sounds like the are setting up the artist to stay alive for two more months and in terrible pain.  

6 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

3.  So Elizabeth is torturing her, I was a bit confused about that.  However, I've NEVER heard of a hospice nurse, or the equivalent EVER caring if a dying patient might become addicted to pain killers.  That was bullshit, they are there to keep them out of pain as much as possible.

Edited April 5, 2018 by jjj

[Tetraneutron]

1 minute ago, Umbelina said:

3.  So Elizabeth is torturing her, I was a bit confused about that.  However, I've NEVER heard of a hospice nurse, or the equivalent EVER caring if a dying patient might become addicted to pain killers.  That was bullshit, they are there to keep them out of pain as much as possible.

Deliberately withholding morphine and getting Glenn to do the same is pretty torturey to me. And fake nurse Elizabeth didn't care about Erica becoming an addict, she cared about her building a tolerance, which would worsen the pain in the long run. The point is Elizabeth will bond with her and learn to appreciate beauty and then Erica will hardcore suffer. Just like Elizabeth's friend the last two seasons. Also, now that we know Claudia likes classical music, we know that everyone on this show has a hobby or interest in something besides spying and communism, except Elizabeth. 

[RedHawk]

Stan so did not want to play marital counselor to Gennadi!  How Sandra would laugh to hear about him being put on the spot in that way. I was wondering if Stan was going to tell him to take flowers to her or something. Funny how we jumped from their initial "in love" introduction to the "she's always angry" end of the relationship.

[jjj]

Henry did have a good imitation accent.  I could hear him imitating Roossian Boris and Natasha chasing after "Moose and Squirr-rrell".  But worried that Philip might "jump out the window" -- and what, get gum on his shoes by exiting at street level window?

They certainly are upping Elizabeth's wig game this season -- I guess they have excess wig budget because Philip needs so little.  (None this week, and just the one for meeting with Oleg lastg week.)  

I did think it was stupid to get up from the cafeteria table and draw attention to herself.  But what do I know, it worked!  I kind of liked the garrulous, gregarious older man -- I know men like him, just puppy dog eager to talk about what fascinates them, and for him, it is the international politics.  He was actually giving Elizabeth good career advice, but for a different career than she has!  ("Get a Ph.D. and come back, they will look at you differently."  "Or come work for me."  And I was not getting any sense of a come on with this; he was just being professionally excited for her possibilities.  I'd have lunch with him!)

[PinkRibbons]

I had to sympathize with Paige in the park. If, God Forbid, I heard gunshots coming from where I knew my own mother was, it would take the hounds of hell to stop me from running to her. Would probably scream "Mama" several times while I was at it.

Poor Elizabeth. She made the mistake of raising a child who loves her.

[SusanSunflower]

Gee, I thought Nurse Elizabeth was anxious that the patient did not go gently into that good night before the summit .... because that would complicate the mission by ending her pretext for being in that house (inconvenient for her and the KGB). God only knows how E. intends to keep her alive with manageable pain, particularly if she's decided she's done. Watching someone in pain is also excruciating. I'm guessing she may turn up with some off-the-book magic elixer which will make E. the savior, maybe??? 

[jjj]

BY THE WAY:  Was Aderholt a divorced man last year?  I always just thought he was single, but tonight he mentioned "leaving his wife," and assume it was not the one we met with the little baby last week.

Must be tough for the real Keri and Matthew to compare notes in the evening -- they are in hardly any scenes, so are having very different work days.  "How was your day"  "SUPER, I spent the day line dancing and had a blast."  "SUPER, I had to have someone's BRAINS on my face for half the day while we shot the scene in the wet leaves."  

[CaliCheeseSucks]

1 hour ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Can someone remind me if we have seen McCleesh in a previous season? I felt like I was missing information during that meetup scene in the bookstore.

I thought McCleesh was the guy we got the glimpse of the in the hotel last week and this was revealing who he was and why Elizabeth slept with him.

[jjj]

4 hours ago, CaliCheeseSucks said:

I thought McCleesh was the guy we got the glimpse of the in the hotel last week and this was revealing who he was and why Elizabeth slept with him.

No, it was an entirely different guy in the bed.  (kind of gross)  And different wig/glasses on Elizabeth for the bookstore/cafeteria guy!  

Edited April 5, 2018 by jjj

[tennisgurl]

So, in news that is not super shocking, Paige is a pretty crappy spy. I think the KGB really backed the wrong horse on this one. Henry is thriving in some smart kid boarding school, while Paige is still bumbling around doing spy grunt work that Hans used to do after about a month. She really is just hilariously naive, about spying and about the world in general. I mean, do spy's use sex in their work? Have you never just seen a James Bond movie, Page? Yeah they arent documentaries, but maybe you can pick up some clues?

Not nearly enough Philip or Oleg or their team up this week. I still feel like the KGB is playing some long game with Philip, letting him have his normal life for awhile before they pull the rug out from under him. And any episode without Oleg gets docked a few points by me. He and his beard are still my favorite character in the show (which is still really weird considering how much he bugged me at first) and if he dies, then I riot. I will be sending many angry tweets damn it! But, considering this is his One Last Job or whatever, it dont look good. Just, no one talk about having just one more day before retirement! Seriously, they better not. Also liked Philips conversation about him. 

It was so nice seeing Henry and Philip having a good conversation, and Henry getting right away that Philip was upset, and trying to cheer him up. With things so weird with Liz and Paige, its good to see some members of the family Jennings are doing well. Elizabeth talking to Paige about the world not being black and white is kind of hilarious, considering how Elizabeth has followed the party line for so long. And now she is bringing her daughter in, and for what? Its honestly kind of sad. She has no idea that the home she has idealized is falling apart (neither of them have done much research, or I guess just write everything bad off as propaganda) and in a few years, wont even exist in the way she knows it. I swear, I am half convinced the writers skipped ahead a few years just to watch Elizabeth's face watching the Berlin Wall get knocked down while David Hasslehoff rocks out in a jacket covered in Christmas lights. I thinks thats how it went, right? I wasn't actually born yet, thats just what I remember from clips :)   

The true hero of the show returns...MAIL ROBOT! 

Edited April 5, 2018 by tennisgurl

[jjj]

For everyone as confused as me about the bathroom caper, here is the diagram they showed in the "previouslies".  I still don't get what an x-ray machine would be able to read inside a pouch.  But note also that there is an "X-ray plate inside false partition", so presumably someone else would come by to pick up the exposed plate and take it someplace for analysis.  The bathroom was also supposed to be "Closed for Maintenance" -- did that happen, and was that the reason for the long line of men nearby?  

Edited April 5, 2018 by jjj

[Dev F]

9 minutes ago, jjj said:

The bathroom was also supposed to be "Closed for Maintenance" -- did that happen, and was that the reason for the long line of men nearby? 

To me it looks like the original plan was for one stall to be closed for maintenance -- in other words, for the FBI to remotely operate an X-ray machine mounted in what would appear to be an out-of-order stall. Maybe they later decided it needed to be manned for logistical or security reasons?

[Umbelina]

Well, they must be hoping for a prototype of some kind being in that bag.  Still, it's hard to see what real use xraying it would be.  ??

[Bannon]

2 hours ago, kikaha said:

In the fantasy world of The Americans, that's a good expectation.  The fight scenes are about as likely as when Rambo, carrying only a bow, takes on and defeats 100 enemies armed with machine guns.  Blechh. 

Yeah, that was just awful writing, like an Austin Powers scene......let's talk talk talk about why I'm going to shoot you, instead of just shooting you. Blechh indeed. Is Liz next week going to make a demand from someone of one MILLION dollars? Live in a hollowed out volcano? Have frickin' sharks with laser beams?

[Umbelina]

Well,  to be completely fair, not everyone goes around killing people left and right in real life, and the guy DID take time to comment on what his last murder did to him.

So there's that.

We can't all be Liz and Phil, calmly and efficiently whacking people at will.  I can buy his hesitation and even his need to explain, or tell her off, "I am not a traitor!"

Edited April 5, 2018 by Umbelina

[Bannon]

Is the goal this season to have Liz kill one schlub per episode? Does Paige ever read the papers, and sees that the Navy guy who took her school i.d. was murdered? Does she figure out that Mom is running the D.C. franchise of Murder Inc.?

[jjj]

Date of this episode:  from the New York Times article on the episode:  "The episode was time-stamped by the baseball game on Glenn Haskard’s radio: Oct. 4, the last day of the 1987 season. Glenn listened as Chili Davis of the San Francisco Giants tied the game, 4-4, with a home run off the Atlanta Braves’ Chuck Cary. (The Giants went on to win, 5-4)"

[Lily H]

Some of you are talking about how Elizabeth is "torturing" Haskard's wife. I don't see how she's doing anything of the kind, or have I missed something? She's supposed to be a nurse, who presumably can't just give the patient large amounts of morphine whenever requested, if there's a schedule she's supposed to be following. Doesn't she have to make sure the woman stays alive for as long as she needs to have access to the house? And after that, why would she care?

[jjj]

48 minutes ago, Lily H said:

Some of you are talking about how Elizabeth is "torturing" Haskard's wife. I don't see how she's doing anything of the kind, or have I missed something? She's supposed to be a nurse, who presumably can't just give the patient large amounts of morphine whenever requested

I think some viewers thought Elizabeth was withholding morphine with the excuse that the artist would become addicted, but she actually said rightly that she would build a tolerance for morphine if she got it too often, then it would not be effective. (True). But there is the spy plot portion of this story, which involves keeping her alive until the summit.  Elizabeth seemed to be saying to Claudia that because the artist would find the morphine less effective, she would be suffering more, but had to last until the summit.  (I might have misunderstood their conversation.) 

[RedHawk]

5 hours ago, jjj said:

BY THE WAY:  Was Aderholt a divorced man last year?  I always just thought he was single, but tonight he mentioned "leaving his wife," and assume it was not the one we met with the little baby last week.

Must be tough for the real Keri and Matthew to compare notes in the evening -- they are in hardly any scenes, so are having very different work days.  "How was your day"  "SUPER, I spent the day line dancing and had a blast."  "SUPER, I had to have someone's BRAINS on my face for half the day while we shot the scene in the wet leaves."  

Aderholt and Renee had a brief chat about their respective divorces when we saw them first meet in a bar with Stan. I think Aderholt asked her “How long did you serve?” meaning how long was her marriage. IIRC he also asked if she had children (no) and that was the end of the conversation. 

[RedHawk]

This episode didn’t do much for me although I realize it’s advancing the plot and sometimes these slower episodes are necessary. Paige Jennings, Jr. Spy, with her cute beret and “disguise” bores me and completely pulls me out of the show. It’s clear she really doesn’t get it and watching her earnestly question Elizabeth is laughable. As if Liz is going to tell her little protege “Yes, dear, I screw and murder for Mother Russia!” I simply don’t care if Paige lives or dies and yet I care about Henry’s fate. 

We see Elizabeth looking totally frayed and chain smoking, is Paige blind to her mother’s exhaustion? Even when I lived 3 hours away in college and visits were infrequent, I was aware of my mom’s mental state while caring for her sick father. Paige and E seem to see each other often, so I can’t believe Paige hasn’t noticed a change in her mother, even if E makes an effort (makeup, shiny hair, smiling attitude) to hide it. Having bloody brains all over your face kind of negates that. Will Obtuse Paige now ask harder questions?

[Chaos Theory]

What I found interesting was that  Elizabeth was willing to hand over training  of her daughter to the woman whose face she had once bashed in.

i am not going to get into Paige because my opinion of her differs then most and I don’t feel like fighting.

i like Philip’s storyline and how travel agencies are kinda going out of style. 

Edited April 5, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[paulvdb]

6 hours ago, chick binewski said:

The thing that stuck out most for me regarding Paige's non-existent spy skillz: you'd think Elizabeth might have stressed the importance of NOT running up to her yelling "MOM!". Elizabeth's omissions are so glaring it's tough to get invested in the Paige storyline.

There is a lot of criticism of Paige not doing a good job as a spy but I think you're right with this post. Elizabeth is trying to shield Paige from the worst parts of the spy game and because of that Paige is not prepared for this kind of situation. If Elizabeth wants to prepare Paige she'll have to tell her the truth about everything or else not have her go on these missions. After all, the plan for the second generation program was that Paige would be able to get some government job that would give her access to information. So she wouldn't even have to do these missions with Elizabeth.

[Ellaria]

This episode made it clear that we are watching the beginning of the end of the travel agency business. And with the end of the Cold War a few years away, P&E will soon be seeking a new family business (assuming that one or both survive). It is an interesting parallel, especially for Philip, because he is more of a pragmatist. I imagine that he is going to make a poor choice at some point.

[shura]

5 hours ago, Bannon said:

Is the goal this season to have Liz kill one schlub per episode? Does Paige ever read the papers, and sees that the Navy guy who took her school i.d. was murdered? Does she figure out that Mom is running the D.C. franchise of Murder Inc.?

She does not. She reads that paper and thinks "Wow, Officer Heimlich was right, that really is a bad neighborhood."

7 hours ago, jjj said:

Must be tough for the real Keri and Matthew to compare notes in the evening -- they are in hardly any scenes, so are having very different work days.  "How was your day"  "SUPER, I spent the day line dancing and had a blast."  "SUPER, I had to have someone's BRAINS on my face for half the day while we shot the scene in the wet leaves."

"Now I need sleep, Matthew. Let me SLEEP!"

I am actually bored with the travel agency story line. I liked the scene with Philip and Jeremy, it was well acted and you could feel the awkwardness of the situation, but that's not really the Philip I enjoy watching. All his moping and indecisiveness almost look like what they did to Stan's character in Season 2. I hope they don't drag this out.

[benteen]

Although it ended with a bang, I found this episode dull.  Especially compared with last week.  This is what's called methodically paced and the show shouldn't be taking its leisurely time this season.  Especially after last season's victory tour when they patted themselves on the back for 13 episodes.

Man, Elizabeth is really slipping.  It's not a surprise considering all the assignments she has going on at the same time, on top of training her inept daughter as a spy.  I don't know how the FBI on this show, inept as they are, don't start noticing that members of the military have been killed the past two weeks and that there's a pattern. 

My eyes just about rolled to the back of my head when Elizabeth feigned ignorance with Paige on the idea of spies using sex to get what they need.  Once again, Elizabeth is outright lying to Paige or concealing information from her.  Thankfully, Paige isn't too bright and isn't going to ask too many questions.

Speaking of Paige....maybe we should borrow something from the Arrow boards when it comes to her.  For many episodes of that show, posters would do a thread explaining how one of the characters failed as a hero/vigilante.  Maybe someone should start doing a How many times Paige failed as a spy in this episode post.  I counted two tonight, getting those books about espionage from the book store and breaking her assignment to see what happened with Elizabeth (which was completely understandable to be sure).  Paige is not cut out for this, particularly being a field agent (she also is way too small and it's very noticeable).

While it's nice to see Philip as an actual travel agent, it doesn't exactly make for enthralling television.

Good lord, I thought that Stan was loose-lipped but he's got nothing on the old State Department official who has a clear crush on Elizabeth.

I do remember that during this time, there were questions about Reagan's mental faculties but he quickly put that talk to rest.

Edited April 5, 2018 by benteen

[Trillian]

7 hours ago, jjj said:

BY THE WAY:  Was Aderholt a divorced man last year?  I always just thought he was single, but tonight he mentioned "leaving his wife," and assume it was not the one we met with the little baby last week.

Yes.  In the episode where he is interviewed by Taffett about the pen, he talks about the expensive pen his ex-wife gave him so he’d be less-inclined to lose it.

[Erin9]

This episode was a bit slow. I think it was the lack of Philip and Oleg. Next week about has to pick up though given how things ended and the time left. 

Is there a real point to dealing with Stan’s Russian assets? I get the parallel about marital trouble, but it doesn’t seem necessary to me. Seems like the airtime could go to more important  things. I can think of many things I’d like to see covered. 

I’ve always seen Paige’s story as really only important for how it impacts Elizabeth and Philip. My opinion hasn’t changed. I think we’re supposed to see that Paige is not the superspy her parents were, and Elizabeth isn’t helping matters by not training her properly. I don’t think Paige gets the seriousness of this either. It should be obvious, but it doesn’t seem to be. But Elizabeth hasn’t driven the point home either. 

This seems to be Philip’s episode to decide what to do. His conversation with Henry certainly emphasized that. And he seems headed back into the spy world. Which figures. The show ended with Philip getting out and is picking up with Oleg trying to pull him back in. He’s going to do something besides run the business. 

Regarding Stan- I’ve never really gotten a sense of doom about his fate. He may not make it. But you feel it with E,P and Oleg. Not him imo. 

[Bannon]

25 minutes ago, shura said:

She does not. She reads that paper and thinks "Wow, Officer Heimlich was right, that really is a bad neighborhood."

"Now I need sleep, Matthew. Let me SLEEP!"

I am actually bored with the travel agency story line. I liked the scene with Philip and Jeremy, it was well acted and you could feel the awkwardness of the situation, but that's not really the Philip I enjoy watching. All his moping and indecisiveness almost look like what they did to Stan's character in Season 2. I hope they don't drag this out.

It just occurred to me; how did Liz explain to Paige that she didn't need to go on the date to get her ID back? "Paige, honey, the capitalist pig who stole your ID, in order to have anti proletariat sex with you, tripped and impaled his throat on shrubbery branches, so you don't need to meet him. I found your ID on the sidewalk, here it is"?

[becauseIsaidso]

Rather scary-sad episode imo.

First because Paige is just playing spy the same was she was playing Christian - she just doesn't have a very long attention span - or she is just so vapid that nothing penetrates below the surface. She will never come even close to the total dedication to any cause that has been the most important part (and burden) of her parents' lives. Her questions about sex and the teaser previews of the season strike me as Paige (because she knows it all) deciding to try using sex - without any training or knowledge of what she's getting into - to perhaps prove to mommy what a good little spy she is. Her panicked actions in the forest said it all.

Next, because Elizabeth knows this and has, by her demeanor, conveyed as much to Claudia - I can see the wheels already spinning as to when/where/how to deal with Paige before she makes a fatal error. The only saving grace (if it can be called that) is that she/Paige is so emotionally unstable that she'll probably shoot her mouth off to either/both P&E (best case) and not get the chance to do further damage.

Of P&E, Elizabeth has always been the killing machine, and I don't see that changing. I could really see this as playing out that she decides Paige has to either be taken to Russia (doubtful with her tendency to throw tantrums and not cooperate) or killed. I can see Elizabeth as leaving a coded message for Philip to either turn himself in (as he has in the past suggested doing) or run - with or without Henry - while she and Claudia take Paige to an out of town 'job'. And, once the deed is done, I could see Elizabeth choosing to take the pill, or maybe trying to do a solo run - but I think her rock-solid sense of realism would keep that from happening.

Or, on a somewhat happier note, maybe P&E will just drop everything and go back to the motherland, knowing that Henry will be fine (shocked if he really is as unobservant as he appears, but still fine when the dust settles- just without any hope of any FBI/CIA/Federal and who knows what else career ), and that whomever Paige blabs to (FBI, CIA, her college mentor, whatever) will get too little information, to late to seriously disrupt the illegals program.

Philip seems to have gotten a bit too complacent - in previous years, he never would have palmed off a long-standing client to an underling - that's a really stupid move unless you're retiring and are introducing 'your' clients to the new boss for their future needs so they know they're special. At this stage, I think he'd rather return to Russia than take the risks that would go along with any approach he might make to US authorities - Stan would be most likely - sort of a perverted character witness - but that could backfire spectacularly. At least in Russia, Philip (and Elizabeth if she chose to run with him) would have real value - for training future spies, at the very least. I think debriefing covering about 20+years of life in the US would take a great deal of time. A voluntarily returning 'hero' is the best sort of recruiting tactic. And he/they'd get to meet Mischa....and reconnect with the brother and family....at least that would help ease the pain of what they had to leave behind. But I don't think Philip would ever be able to accept what Elizabeth would have seen as the only possible way to solve the Paige problem.

So, happy ending? Not so much.

[kikaha]

6 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Well,  to be completely fair, not everyone goes around killing people left and right in real life, and the guy DID take time to comment on what his last murder did to him.

So there's that.

We can't all be Liz and Phil, calmly and efficiently whacking people at will.  I can buy his hesitation and even his need to explain, or tell her off, "I am not a traitor!"

There's no way she comes off her knees, knocks him down and the weapon out of his hand, pins him against the ground, prevents him from quickly reaching the gun, and then strong-arms him into shooting himself.  All the Elizabeth fight scenes are Hollywood delusion. 

With the general out of the picture, the Soviets are going to have to find another source for the technology now.  I wonder if this was the turning point in the Cold War, where the USSR had to expend ruinous amounts of resources on military/weapons it so desperately needed. 

[teddysmom]

2 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

What I found interesting was that  Elizabeth was willing to hand over training  of her daughter to the woman whose face she had once bashed in.

I find it interesting that they're pals now, I was thinking "Didn't Elizabeth beat the shit out of her back in Season 1 or 2?" 

Paige is going to get killed or seriously hurt. She doesn't have the motivation or cunning Elizabeth and Phillip had.  If she's stupid enough to believe the bullshit about Russia being this super awesome place where everyone lives in harmony, she's way too stupid to be a spy. 

Why doesn't she ever ask "why is everyone from Russia so miserable? You all seem to wallow in your sadness. Is this what you're fighting for?  Paige if you want to pick up a book about Russia, read Gorky Park, or watch the movie. It came out in 1983, and explained the corruption of the Russian government. 

[kokapetl]

The X-ray system was sort of explained in Darkroom. The diplomatic pouch has a lock that can only be opened once. In addition to top secret documents on microfilm, it contains stolen technology like circuit boards etc. X-raying it in a toilet stall isn’t the greatest plan since it could also have a cheap X-ray dosimeter inside that could be checked once it arrived in Moscow. Don’t know why Stan and the black guy were there.

Is Stan working on Marion Barry?

And Jesus God, Paige! How can you be so naive and just plain bad at your job? 

I think that guy pulled the trigger on himself.

Edited April 5, 2018 by Kokapetl

[Dev F]

38 minutes ago, kikaha said:

There's no way she comes off her knees, knocks him down and the weapon out of his hand, pins him against the ground, prevents him from quickly reaching the gun, and then strong-arms him into shooting himself.

It's a little less implausible than that. She started by throwing her purse at him, and only launched at him once it knocked him off guard.

[Chaos Theory]

I was half expecting that last fight to end with Paige’s first murder and a little disappointed it didn’t end like that.  

Paige running to see what happened an was understandable rookie mistake but calling out “mom” might be a problem in the long run.   

I am not going to debate her lack of insight or interest in looking into Russia because it just goes around in circles.   Plus there are only a few episodes left and I think the show has chosen to focus on other matters but still needs to tell Paige’s downward spiral.

Edited April 5, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[benteen]

2 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

I was half expecting that last fight to end with Paige’s first murder and a little disappointed it didn’t end like that.  

Paige running to see what happened was understandable rookie mistake but calling out “mom” might be a problem in the long run.   

Yes.  Need those codenames.

[Ellaria]

1 hour ago, Erin9 said:

Is there a real point to dealing with Stan’s Russian assets? I get the parallel about marital trouble, but it doesn’t seem necessary to me. Seems like the airtime could go to more important  things. I can think of many things I’d like to see covered. 

I'm sure that there is a point but they need to get to it quickly. My guess is that something goes awry (badly) with those assets and Stan is dragged back in because they were his assets. 

1 hour ago, Erin9 said:

I’ve always seen Paige’s story as really only important for how it impacts Elizabeth and Philip. My opinion hasn’t changed. I think we’re supposed to see that Paige is not the superspy her parents were, and Elizabeth isn’t helping matters by not training her properly. I don’t think Paige gets the seriousness of this either. It should be obvious, but it doesn’t seem to be. But Elizabeth hasn’t driven the point home either. 

I believe that the Paige-as-Spy story line is much more about Elizabeth and what she is willing to sacrifice for the cause.  Now that Philip is out of the game (temporarily, IMO), Elizabeth views Paige as someone that can carry on their commitment. It goes back to her comment to Tuan about needing a partner. However, I think that she needs someone more experienced than Paige working with her. At some point soon, she has to realize it.

Edited April 5, 2018 by Ellaria Sand

[Chaos Theory]

3 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

I'm sure that there is a point but they need to get to it quickly. My guess is that something goes awry (badly) with those assets and Stan is dragged back in because they were his assets. 

I believe that the Paige-as-Spy story line is much more about Elizabeth and what she is willing to sacrifice for the cause.  Now that Philip is out of the game (temporarily, IMO), Elizabeth views Paige as someone that can carry on their commitment. It goes back to her comment to Tuan about needing a partner. However, I think that she needs someone more experienced than Paige working with her. 

Paige lacks experience.  Even season one we saw Elizabeth And Philip as long experienced well trained super spies.  Paige is neither.  Which is kinda interesting.  She isn’t stupid.  She just lacks Elizabeth single minded purpose (unable to even for a  moment give in and draw a stupid bowl) and her long and complicated training.  Of course Paige is going to have a lot of missteps.

i think the one thing that would ruin and outright kill the show for me would be killinging off Paige.  I know she is an unpopular character but she is an important one and killing her would do nothing for the show but be  fan service for haters.  And the show is better then that.

Edited April 5, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[SunnyBeBe]

Happy Birthday iii. (belated)

First of all.....OMG, I love this show.  Something about the cinematography, direction, setting, music, etc.  It's just superb.  I'll put aside my plot gripes from previous seasons for now. lol

My impressions and questions include:

Why did they seem to make P so intrigued with his bank receipt?  He was looking at it at the ATM before he saw old customer and then returned back to it. Then, he seems forlorned sitting in his office.  Is the business in financial straits? 

I don't buy Paige's act of not knowing spies use sex in their work.  To me, she didn't believe E and was just being polite by pretending that she did. 

Paige must have a lot of extra time on her hands.  Do you know how boring it is to sit in a car for hours just waiting?  And she enjoys it? Is she doing this for free?  I don't know....odd.

The death was called as suicide, but, really?  I mean.....the handgun went off several times.  So, wouldn't an investigation show that? Plus, the ground show a scuffle? 

Where was Hospice back then?  I thought they didn't worry about addiction in terminally ill patients who are near death.  

[Ellaria]

8 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Paige lacks experience.  Even season one we saw Elizabeth And Philip as long experienced well trained super spies.  Paige is neither.  Which is kinda interesting.  She isn’t stupid.  She just lacks Elizabeth single minded purpose (unable to even fora moment give in a draw a stupid bowl) nd her long and complicated training.  Of course Paige is going to have a lot of missteps.

i think the one thing that would ruin and outright kill the show for me would be killinging off Paige.  I know she is an unpopular character but she is an important one and killing her would do nothing for the show but fan service for haters.  And the show is better then that.

I stated that Paige lacks experience. And whether or not she is stupid is subjective and I will side-step that debate. Of course, a newby spy is going to make mistakes. We saw that brief discussion between P&E about Paige getting the Navy officer's name wrong. 

A successful spy program - one that doesn't get their agents killed or jailed - should have rigorous training and evaluation procedures. Right now, Paige's spy activities *may* need to get scaled back to only the basics. It seems that there are highly sensitive missions going on right now and perhaps Paige should not be part of them. For me, Paige's missteps and/or successes are a reflection of Elizabeth's judgement. Paige as a super-spy in training does not interest me. Elizabeth's failures to adequately assess whether her daughter is well-suited for this "profession" at this point in time is much more compelling.

Simply because I am critical of the "Paige as spy" story line does not mean that I want her to die. The fate of all these characters has to be organic and consistent with what we have seen for six seasons. If she does die, then I assume it will be because it has a profound impact on the end game (and not as fan service to haters). 

[Cheyanne11]

10 hours ago, kikaha said:

 

I also had to laugh when E told Paige the world is not black and white.  WTF?  Black and white is exactly how Elizabeth sees things and behaves. 

Seriously.  Can't get more black and white than "Russia, Good.  America, Bad."  Oh, Lizzie...

Paige's mistake this week was exponentially worse than her mistake last week.  At this rate she'll start a nuclear war by episode 5 because she dials a wrong number.  

Quote

Why did they seem to make P so intrigued with his bank receipt?  He was looking at it at the ATM before he saw old customer and then returned back to it. Then, he seems forlorned sitting in his office.  Is the business in financial straits? 

I think the storyline with the lost client was to show that Philip can't just pass responsibility off to someone else and then expect the same result.  He walked away from spying, but he can't just wipe his hands of what Elizabeth is doing.

Edited April 5, 2018 by Cheyanne11

[Luckylyn]

Paige doesn’t seem ready for this kind of work and is surprisingly naive for someone whose supposed to have been training for three years.  A big problem is that Elizabeth is the wrong person to be training Paige.  She’s too protective and by trying to shield Paige from the worst aspects of the job Elizabeth is not properly preparing Paige to handle the work.  One reason Paige is struggling is that Elizabeth is treating her as a daughter to be sheltered instead of a trainee who needs to understand how the job really works.   Elizabeth is simultaneously getting Paige deeper into danger while at the same time not really giving Paige all the tools she needs to handle the danger under the guise of protecting her.

The thing is Elizabeth is a necessary part of training Paige because her influence over Paige helps keep Paige in line with the cause but someone else should be taking over Paige’s training at this point.   I think Elizabeth’s protectiveness of Paige is going to lead to Paige either getting caught or killed.  

 It is also possible that Paige simply isn’t suited to field work regardless of who trains her.  She might be better at being in a Martha type position in working in an office and quietly gathering intel which is what Elizabeth wanted for Paige.  It really doesn’t make sense for Paige to be in the field.  She should instead be building an impeccable record and trying to meet the right people so she can get a well placed job in the government.  Using Paige in the field seems like an uneccessary risk to an asset that would be better used elsewhere.  

Also, Elizabeth is someone who tends to see what she wants to see to confirm what she already believes instead of adjusting her view when confronted with evidence that contradicts it.  That means she may be too close to Paige to be capable of seeing what Paige’s skills actually are.  Elizabeth wants to believe that Paiige will be her legacy and be a great spy and so that is what Elizabeth is going to see even when there are signs Paige may not be cut out for spy work.

Edited April 5, 2018 by Luckylyn

[Ina123]

10 hours ago, Umbelina said:

If anyone is wondering, Elizabeth's lip mole is not in that drawing. 

;)

That darn lip mole has kept me smirking for every season of this show. When describing her no one, not one, mentions that elephant in the room. They can remember the hair, the glasses, etc, but that darn mole never makes the cut. of course, mention mole on lip and Stan actually gets a clue...no more show.

[attica]

I super liked that the avuncular State Guide Guy was paying enough attention to notice which of his group had gone AWOL. Nice touch, show.

Also: All of E's disguises this week wore glasses. That seems to me to be bad? Shouldn't she be mixing it up more? Or is it because glasses make a (woman's) face forgettable?

[Dev F]

43 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

I'm sure that there is a point but they need to get to it quickly. My guess is that something goes awry (badly) with those assets and Stan is dragged back in because they were his assets.

 

In the episode, though, it served more of a thematic purpose. Like Philip, Stan gave up on his old mission for a less stressful existence, but this central figure from his old life still depends on him to keep his own life from falling apart. A lot of the episode is about looking at how much you can actually step away from something when you step away -- the thing with Philip and Stavos is about that too.

 

23 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Why did they seem to make P so intrigued with his bank receipt?  He was looking at it at the ATM before he saw old customer and then returned back to it. Then, he seems forlorned sitting in his office.  Is the business in financial straits?

My assumption was that Phil was using a little bit of tradecraft in his legit business -- deliberately lingering at the ATM so that he could "accidentally" run into his old client and find out why he'd left them. His later melancholy, I thought, was more about how the client situation reflected his troubles with Elizabeth, his fear that he was losing his connection to her through his absence and neglect just like he lost their client.

Edited April 5, 2018 by Dev F

[teddysmom]

47 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

If she does end up dead, I would like to see how both Philip and Elizabeth cope with it.

Is there anyway we could work the cougar from 24 into this season?  He's probably still itching to take out some dumbass teenage daughter. 

[JFParnell]

14 minutes ago, attica said:

I super liked that the avuncular State Guide Guy was paying enough attention to notice which of his group had gone AWOL. Nice touch, show.

 

Oh, right! When Liz slipped away, I was thinking, "Pfft. Watch, the tour group won't even notice." Shows have a way of dodging simple logic when it's convenient. But, yes, show didn't do that this time. Guide Guy was on his game.

[JFParnell]

8 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

Is there anyway we could work the cougar from 24 into this season?  He's probably still itching to take out some dumbass teenage daughter.

LOL. I've been critical of Paige, as so many have, but I think she has more brain power than Kim Bauer. A low bar, to be sure, but Paige is just ... inexperienced.

[teddysmom]

True. It shows what a terrible mother Elizabeth is that she would recruit her daughter into this nightmare.  I can't remember what were they going to do if Paige didn't agree?  THey couldn't kill her. Send them back to Russia? 

[benteen]

1 hour ago, Ellaria Sand said:

I'm sure that there is a point but they need to get to it quickly. My guess is that something goes awry (badly) with those assets and Stan is dragged back in because they were his assets. 

Agreed.  I found all the missions from last season to be boring so a return to this one with Stan's Russian contact doesn't excite me.  They need to wrap it up quickly or at least make it more interesting than a relationship squabble.