S03.E12: The Fillorian Candidate

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

The political situation in Fillory comes to a head. Julia makes amends and Alice makes a confession.

Promo:

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Clip:

[The Companion]

I may never recover from that bunny saying "Eat my ass." I loved the way so many things came together in this episode. I will say I did not see Margo winning on the bestiality ticket. Long live high king Margo!

I enjoyed Julia, the goddess. It was nice to see her fix the destruction she caused. 

The Penny-Kady angst was sad, but I appreciated that Penny 23 totally got it. Poor excluded Penny, original flavor.

[Philbert]

Another glorious episode. High King Margo (does that make Elliott High Queen?) is a wonder to behold. Finally the most badass character in the group gets her due. Lovely stuff between Kady and Penny23. Absolutely delicious karma getting distributed to Reynard, after all the devastation he's caused it's still not enough but it's a good start. Loved Julia making her amends for burning down the Forest in S2-she's grown so much as a character in the last year it's hard to remember how she was when the show started. Best part though was Josh running Penny23 through the "previously ons" in the opening. That was exactly what I've come to expect from this show. I'm really psyched for the season finale next week.

[MissL]

Yay Margo!

I don't remember, why does Qs dad have cancer if there is magic? And did he already know about magi? because he seemed to accept Qs story pretty easily considering Q started this show in a mental hospital. Up until this season Q was actually kind of low on my list of who I liked (so glad I stuck with this show anyway) so I have very little memory of what happened with this storyline. 

[festivus]

I don't know why Quentin's dad's cancer is magical, I don't think they've ever said. I do know why he believes him about magic, because of that one time Quentin flew the pieces of his dad's broken toy plane in the air and put it back together.

[TiffanyNichelle]

I was so happy for Margo. She deserved that role as king and now she has an eye again! I laughed when Fen asked about her toes because I was about to say the same thing out loud.

I hate that they tied Q's father's cancer with magic. That was such a sad scene. I love having Penny 23 around because it's nice to see Penny in something other than a suit but this is just torture for Kady.  I wish 23 Penny wasn't in love with Julia. I can take Julia more this season but sometimes I still roll my eyes at her stuff.

I guess "our" Penny is gone for good? Booo!

Abigail the sloth and her speaker?? Who knew, lol.

[LocimusPrime]

Julia and Alice are my favorite characters. 

[wayne67]

Well it was nice that Elliot saluted the new high king, he's understandably disappointed that he didn't win a popularity contest but still was willing to accept his loss graciously. It was good of Margo to get a reward for all the sacrifices she's made on behalf of Fillory even if it wasn't appreciated at the time or in some cases ill advised. 

Does this mean the Fairy Queen is subservient to Margo since Margo is the Queen of Fillory and she's going to be a subject? It will be nice to see the Fairy Queen in a less antagonistic position as a member of the Fillorian Government/council.

Julia is making great strides in atoning for her previous actions, though I do wonder if that forest is going to be sentient or not, or whether the sentient trees are still extinct. That arborcide ranks second in things that still haunt me... the first of course being Penny throwing out the 8th Fillory book in season 1 (I think it was) just because he didn't like it or some other equally nonsensical reason. 

[AudienceofOne]

5 hours ago, Philbert said:

Another glorious episode. High King Margo (does that make Elliott High Queen?) i

That was my first thought and my second thought was "perfect".

I really loved this episode. It wasn't as funny or as witty or as intellectual or as experimental as the others in this season. But so many shows have lacklustre penultimate episodes to a season because it's all set up. But this didn't feel like that. It was powerful and emotional but felt like the culmination of so many plot threads rather than the precursor to them. 

Margo has had such amazing character development. I used to watch this for Q and Alice with the odd sprinkling of Elliot but now it's Margo I want to see.

While the writers this season are finally writing Julia well, I still can't get over the feeling that all of this is unearned. I feel like she's been awarded for victimhood while Alice was punished for sacrifice. And something in that equation just seems wrong to me.

PS - Chekhov's Bullet is finally going to go off! It's about time. I've been annoyed about that all season. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

That moment when Eliot swallowed his disappointment to congratulate Margo is why I love their friendship. And who knew about Abigail? "You really love that sloth." Ha!

When they announced that neither Eliot nor Tick had won the election, I thought that maybe the Fillorians had chosen Julia because they saw her bringing back the forest. I'm glad it was Margo though. She has worked very hard to do right by Fillory. I will miss her matching eyepatches, but I'm glad she got her sight back. I can't wait to hear about what else she can see with her fairy vision.

Part of me was with Penny23 - never leave a bad guy alive! Movies and tv shows have taught us that if you leave your enemy alive, he will come back for revenge! But I hope that Julia and Kady's decision was due more to their experience since the last time they faced Reynard. The last time one of their friends killed a god, magic got turned off so there's no telling what would happen if they killed Reynard. Living a crappy life without any powers is a pretty big punishment for someone like Reynard.

I was hoping that Julia would hit Reynard with some kind of truth spell to make sure that he wasn't lying about the castle. Part of me is glad that he showed his true colors. I didn't believe his "but I've changed!" for a second so it was nice to have it verified.

[Kathira]

Quentin is often my least favorite character on this show, but I was really touched by his scene with his father. It felt like Quentin finally came into himself as a man, as an adult, having an adult conversation with his father. Not asking permission for what he was going to do, but discussing it openly and honestly. Especially when they led into it with the scene where he says he thought quests were supposed to change people. I need to rewatch this season, but I think they've all really changed and grown up this year. Julia is becoming a goddess, whatever that means, OG Penny has accepted his role in the library, and I guess you could say he's literally changed, since we seem to be sticking with Penny23 at least for now. Josh has grown up a bit. And seeing Elliot and Margo accepting their roles as the leaders of Fillory has been great. Elliot kneeling to Margo as high king was a great cap to everything they've been through this year.

I also loved seeing the development of the Fairy Queen over these last episodes, as her plan to save her people by taking over Fillory was thwarted. Breaking the fairy deal to save the slaves seems to have been a real turning point for her, as she was willing to accept that the Children of Earth might not be all bad.  And now in this episode, accepting that she and her people could be a real part of Fillorian society, not just the evil scary "other." Giving Margo the fairy eye was a terrific touch and I can't wait to see what happens with that next year. I've never been super impressed with Candis Cayne as an actress, but she has really sold it in the second half of the season.

[festivus]

I think Fen was my favorite thing last night. From telling Eliot why she was staying with him to asking why couldn't she get some fairy toes. <3

[TiffanyNichelle]

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

When they announced that neither Eliot nor Tick had won the election, I thought that maybe the Fillorians had chosen Julia because they saw her bringing back the forest.

I had the same thought and not even a Fairy eye could stand up to the eye rolling from me that would have caused.

[The Companion]

11 hours ago, TiffanyNichelle said:

I was so happy for Margo. She deserved that role as king and now she has an eye again! I laughed when Fen asked about her toes because I was about to say the same thing out loud.

 

Fen's comment was hilarious. I am glad for her that she has a new and improved eye but I am really going to miss her fierce matching eyepatches. I need the costume designer to come design my daily wardrobe. 

8 hours ago, wayne67 said:

Does this mean the Fairy Queen is subservient to Margo since Margo is the Queen of Fillory and she's going to be a subject? It will be nice to see the Fairy Queen in a less antagonistic position as a member of the Fillorian Government/council.

I am a bit confused by the Fillorian Government concept anyway. There are other kingdoms and other kings and queens, which would make Fillory a country, rather than the entire world. However, it did sound like there was going to be a cooperative council. I think there is room for a story where everyone learns how to live with one another (including the talking animals).

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Inside the episode:

[Philbert]

7 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

 

While the writers this season are finally writing Julia well, I still can't get over the feeling that all of this is unearned. I feel like she's been awarded for victimhood while Alice was punished for sacrifice. And something in that equation just seems wrong to me.

 

 

I'm not sure I buy the argument that they were ever writing Julia "badly." They were certainly showing her in a somewhat unsympathetic light at times but I'm not convinced that was a mistake. I know Stella Maeve got a lot of shit (that I think was frankly, very unfair) for the way she played Julia through season one and half of season two but I think that's exactly what they were going for. Julia (the Hermione Granger of Brakebills in just about every other timeline) was seriously messed up for a while and I suspect it was due to the decision to leave her out of Brakebills this time around-thus leading to her current character development. I can't prove that of course but the writing this season is too good to be just a fluke in my opinion. I haven't followed anything the showrunners have said about this (because I learned my lesson the hard way with "Buffy") I think this interpretation at least makes sense.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I felt bad for Penny when he realized that Kady was using the unity key to try to talk to Penny40 and she told him in no uncertain terms that Penny 40 is the real Penny and Penny 23 is the other Penny. I understand what she's saying because she is in timeline 40 and she knew Penny40, but that doesn't make Penny 23 any less real. The poor guy is already trying to adjust to timeline 40 and adjusting to all of these relationships with people who he knew different versions of in timeline 23.

Don't get me wrong - I understand why Kady is so salty with Penny. She's looking at someone who looks like the person she loves but isn't actually the same person who she fell in love with and has a history with. I just wish she would remember that the same is true for Penny 23, not just with Julia but with everyone else he knew in his timeline.

[Delphi]

Finally!  Fucking finally.  Margo deserved this episode so much,  she has been trying so hard for the past two seasons and has gotten nothing for it until now.   She deserves to be high king and she deserves her eye.   And I totally buy that the fairy queen saw something in Margo,  just like Jane did.   And sorry Elliot,  but let's be real,  Margo was basically running shit already.  

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that doesn't make Penny 23 any less real

He's not not real,  but he's an aberration that really shouldn't be there.  This isn't his world and he doesn't belong there. 

 

I'm glad Julia fixed the sentient forest and I'm equally glad that Persephone didn't just let Reynard off Scott free.  Because she shouldn't have.   Also, I spent some time curious as to why Reynard was so white when Our lady underground and Hades are not,  then I remembered he's possessing Richard's body. 

[iMonrey]

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Best part though was Josh running Penny23 through the "previously ons" in the opening.

Yeah - when he got to the part he was making up we saw "footage not available." LOL. That whole sequence was magical. 

Quote

I guess "our" Penny is gone for good? Booo!

I think it's a little early to say that for certain. They seemed to have left him on a cliffhanger so I'd be surprised not to see him again at some point. I think the point of Penny23 is so we don't have 2 separate stories going on in the finale and they can include Arjun Gupta in the main story somehow. (Ultimately, I believe both characters will eventually merge into one. I think that's the whole point of "solving" the problem of Penny40 no longer having a physical body.)

I'm getting a little worried about Julia. Her powers are really growing at a somewhat alarming rate. I'm afraid they might just take over completely, kind of like when Alice became a Niffin but in a more evolutionary way. Like she'll become non corporeal or something and maybe sacrifice herself for the greater good. I really don't want to lose her as a character, and I say that as someone who wasn't particularly interested in her story back in Season 1. How times have changed.

Last week's episode was a hard act to follow IMO so this one didn't quite have the same impact but man, they sure got a lot done! And I'm so glad Margo got her eye (or, an eye) back. Yeah, the eye patch was stylish but I couldn't help feel sympathy for Summer Bishil having to do all her scenes with one eye. That would bug the hell out of me. 

The campaign for high king was a not so subtle parody of our own democratic process so that was a fun storyline too. And I loved the resolution because it's consistent with the Fillory - Narnia parallel - humans are the minority, talking animals are the majority. Margo cracking wise with the bear was hysterical. 

[JonasArm]

28 minutes ago, Delphi said:

I'm glad Julia fixed the sentient forest and I'm equally glad that Persephone didn't just let Reynard off Scott free.  Because she shouldn't have.   Also, I spent some time curious as to why Reynard was so white when Our lady underground and Hades are not,  then I remembered he's possessing Richard's body. 

Reynard called Hades his step-dad. His foxy side must come from somewhere after all.

 

I don't see Margo being so much better than Elliot in the role. She has not done much good for Fillory as I recall. She's excellent at finding quick solutions for their personal problems but mostly I saw her starting a war and Elliot ended it.

She can still rock the role though.

 

Rafe calling Tick "Your Grumpiness"...

Edited March 29, 2018 by JonasArm

[festivus]

1 hour ago, Philbert said:

I'm not sure I buy the argument that they were ever writing Julia "badly." They were certainly showing her in a somewhat unsympathetic light at times but I'm not convinced that was a mistake. I know Stella Maeve got a lot of shit (that I think was frankly, very unfair) for the way she played Julia through season one and half of season two but I think that's exactly what they were going for. Julia (the Hermione Granger of Brakebills in just about every other timeline) was seriously messed up for a while and I suspect it was due to the decision to leave her out of Brakebills this time around-thus leading to her current character development.

Totally agree. I read the books so I knew her story. Frankly, I never posted here in the first season because of all the hate. 

I have been thinking about where her development can go from here. They can't really keep her at god-like status because it would make it too easy for her to just fix everything. There will have to be some limits on what gods can do or we won't have any story. I just hope it's not Alice managing to steal her powers for the library.

[call me ishmael]

26 minutes ago, festivus said:

Totally agree. I read the books so I knew her story. Frankly, I never posted here in the first season because of all the hate. 

I have been thinking about where her development can go from here. They can't really keep her at god-like status because it would make it too easy for her to just fix everything. There will have to be some limits on what gods can do or we won't have any story. I just hope it's not Alice managing to steal her powers for the library.

i'm quite concerned about the latter.  Although I suspect it won't work I was wondering if anyone else thought it was very suspicious that Alice didn't give Quentin the little thing that was supposed to tear Julia's magic out if she didn't go along?  I love libraries but I really hate The Library.

[MissL]

2 hours ago, call me ishmael said:

i'm quite concerned about the latter.  Although I suspect it won't work I was wondering if anyone else thought it was very suspicious that Alice didn't give Quentin the little thing that was supposed to tear Julia's magic out if she didn't go along?  I love libraries but I really hate The Library.

I thought the little thing was just a vial of crushed up fairy? That's what it looked like. I thought the library gave it to Alice so she'd have the juice to have magic to be able to cast a spell to subdue Julia.  But I guess that wouldn't make sense because she supposed to suck the magic right after it gets turned back on right?  I didn't really get how any of that was supposed to work.

[wayne67]

19 minutes ago, MissL said:

I thought the little thing was just a vial of crushed up fairy? That's what it looked like. I thought the library gave it to Alice so she'd have the juice to have magic to be able to cast a spell to subdue Julia.  But I guess that wouldn't make sense because she supposed to suck the magic right after it gets turned back on right?  I didn't really get how any of that was supposed to work.

So far my current guess is that during the first 30 seconds of magic being turned back on, a third party with enough juice can reroute the trickle of magic to another place, I just think of it diverting it like a river to somewhere more useful (a dam) to be allocated to the masses as necessary.

I'm not exactly a fan of the Library but their plan makes some sense considering how much chaos Magicians have caused, turning into niffins, killing Gods, losing their shades, casting black hole magic, mind control spells and creating God killing weapons and that's just the main crew. Josh makes weird magic drugs that could be used for all sorts of dubious purposes. 

I've always been a bit confused about the geography of Fillory, everyone always talked about Fillory but no one mentioned the other countries? provinces? till now, so it's unclear whether Fillory is a country and a region or if it's the entire magical world. So unclear. 

[tennisgurl]

All Hail Queen Margo! Coming in on a Bestiality Platform for the win! That was awesome, and its great to see a win for poor Margo. She has grown so much as a character and has had a real fuck of a time lately, so its awesome to see her being acknowledged as the awesome badass bitch that she is. And it was all because she refuses to judge people sleeping with magical talking animals. #tolerance. Also loved when Elliot immediately supported her. Their friendship is so lovely, they really are platonic (mostly) soulmates. 

Josh doing a recap of everything thats happened in the whole show while smoking magic pot (including footage not being found of him having a harpie three way!) was amazing, while 23 Penny is making snarky comments and looking confused. 

Whats my favorite line? The bunny sounding like a chain smoker saying "eat my ass" over and over, or Elliot approving of his not daughters inter-species love with "I will tell you what I wish my father had told me. I am so happy you found love with a bear." Snerk. The whole back and fourth of Tick and Elliot coming up with more and more ridiculous campaign promises and elaborate flyers and turning into a parody of our own democracy (complete with a leak!) was just that right combination of hilarious and interesting from a story perspective. 

Julia becomes a god! She even brought back the living tree forest Shadeless Julia killed (and Josh used it as a chance to do some campaigning) and is now taking prayer requests! Reynard is now a tiny little pizza guy who lives a miserable life, which is still better than he deserves. I used to loath Julia, and now she is one of my favorites. 

The scene with Quentin and his dad was heartbreaking. I also liked his supportive friendship with Julia, and him obviously being creeped out by being The Beast in another timeline, and worrying about becoming a colder, more ruthless person the way his 23 counterpart was. It was subtle, and I liked it. This show is nuts, but its also increasingly been engaging in more subtle character work thats become really rewarding. 

I think my favorite aside was finding out Bacchus had been kicked off Instagram for violating their terms and conditions due to excess boobs, so now no one can find him when they need a god to help out. Thats the Urban Fantasy details that I freaking come here for. 

I am not at all ready for the season finale next week! I know its probably for the best that the show only has so many episodes, but this season has been so good, I want more damn it! I dont want to have to wait a whole year to get more messenger bunnies and living ships with attitude and our favorite good looking magical hot mess grad students!

[call me ishmael]

2 hours ago, wayne67 said:

I'm not exactly a fan of the Library but their plan makes some sense considering how much chaos Magicians have caused, turning into niffins, killing Gods, losing their shades, casting black hole magic, mind control spells and creating God killing weapons and that's just the main crew. Josh makes weird magic drugs that could be used for all sorts of dubious purposes. 

I find it hard to put much faith in the Library.  They have killed when they pleased, controlled knowledge that might have avoided who knows what, happily used the bones of fairies, etc.  I certainly see no evidence that they would choose any better than anyone else.  And at least now there are different systems of knowledge and authority.  But yes, the Chatwins et al really messed up.

[AudienceofOne]

5 minutes ago, call me ishmael said:

I find it hard to put much faith in the Library.  They have killed when they pleased, controlled knowledge that might have avoided who knows what, happily used the bones of fairies, etc.  I certainly see no evidence that they would choose any better than anyone else.  And at least now there are different systems of knowledge and authority.  But yes, the Chatwins et al really messed up.

Regardless of my feelings about the Library beforehand, the giant briefcase of magic fairy dust was unforgivable for me. I wouldn't trust them with the future of magic.

[The Companion]

2 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

Regardless of my feelings about the Library beforehand, the giant briefcase of magic fairy dust was unforgivable for me. I wouldn't trust them with the future of magic.

I think this is where I fall too. The library seems to be so focused on what they believe to be the greater good, that they don't care about the impact on individuals. It is fine to kill people or have them sign contracts under duress. They don't share "dangerous" knowledge, regardless of the stakes. There is a better to 0 chance they decide magic is too dangerous for anyone other than librarians and lock it up like the books they have locked up.

[AngelKitty]

12 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I am not at all ready for the season finale next week!

Me either!

9 hours ago, The Companion said:

The library seems to be so focused on what they believe to be the greater good, that they don't care about the impact on individuals.

This is so true. I would not trust the Library to make decisions about magic and doling it out as they see fit.

I think Julia becoming more godlike is going to come in handy fighting the monsters at the end of the world.

I love this show so much!

[ProudMary]

It just occurred to me that we didn't see Marina23 in this episode.  We know from Josh that she went through also.  Where is she and what's she up to?  I wonder if we'll see her in the season finale or not until S4.

I truly hope we will get some inkling as to what's up with "our" Penny in the finale.  What happened after he chowed down on that cupcake?

[iMonrey]

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 I was wondering if anyone else thought it was very suspicious that Alice didn't give Quentin the little thing that was supposed to tear Julia's magic out if she didn't go along? 

Yup, I noticed that too. 

Quote

I've always been a bit confused about the geography of Fillory, everyone always talked about Fillory but no one mentioned the other countries? provinces? till now, so it's unclear whether Fillory is a country and a region or if it's the entire magical world. So unclear. 

I believe it's a world in the same sense that Narnia is a world. There are so many parallels it's obviously not a coincidence, and the fountains of the Neitherlands each take you to a different world, one of them being Fillory. Much like the ponds of water in the forest in The Magician's Nephew - a sort of world between worlds. 

What's confusing is that within the world of Fillory seems to be a country called Fillory, because there is at least one other country, Loria, as well as the floating island. But that seems to be much the same way with the world of Narnia, because there's a country called Narnia and a country called Calormen and another called Archenland. 

[ElleMo]

12 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Yup, I noticed that too. 

I believe it's a world in the same sense that Narnia is a world. There are so many parallels it's obviously not a coincidence, and the fountains of the Neitherlands each take you to a different world, one of them being Fillory. Much like the ponds of water in the forest in The Magician's Nephew - a sort of world between worlds. 

What's confusing is that within the world of Fillory seems to be a country called Fillory, because there is at least one other country, Loria, as well as the floating island. But that seems to be much the same way with the world of Narnia, because there's a country called Narnia and a country called Calormen and another called Archenland. 

It's like New York, New York (and there's actually three New York's in there because Manhattan in New York city is in the county of New York) or the island of Hawaii in the state of Hawaii or Nevada city  in the county of Nevada in the state of Nevada. There's a lot more, but I'm sure you get the idea

[Chris24601]

On 3/29/2018 at 7:13 PM, tennisgurl said:

Reynard is now a tiny little pizza guy who lives a miserable life, which is still better than he deserves.

I dunno, I think the fact that he explained he's still actually immortal and now can't even kill himself to escape because he lost the magic bullet... so he's stuck as an unlikable loser pizzaboy for eternity... is actually quite fitting.

 

On 3/30/2018 at 7:58 AM, AngelKitty said:

I think Julia becoming more godlike is going to come in handy fighting the monsters at the end of the world.

I'm starting to suspect that the Castle at the Edge of the World is a red herring/trap and the real solution to all this was actually spilled by Hades a few episodes back; Gods can turn magic on and off basically at their will. Goddess Julia just has to realize that she can turn the magic back on herself.

In other words, the real answer is that, just like all those classic quest stories, the thing you're actually looking for was actually inside you the whole time; you just needed the quest to let it out. Letting the magic out might also be how they resolve Julia's godhood plot in a way that keeps her from having to leave or be too OP; she releases the magic to the world so she's left no stronger than any other magician.

I'm also expecting the monster contained within the Castle to be something completely out of left field in the same sort of way that the Fear Demon in the one Buffy Halloween episode was (i.e. totally not what you expected, but once you think about it for half a second makes total sense). Then again, that sort of switcheroo has been this shows SOP from the beginning so probably a pretty safe bet on my part.

[tennisgurl]

I can actually totally see them pulling a Wizard of Oz and having the Great Cock show up tell the gang “you had the power to save magic all along” or something. Then everyone will just be like “...are you fucking kidding me?!?”. 

[call me ishmael]

1 minute ago, tennisgurl said:

I can actually totally see them pulling a Wizard of Oz and having the Great Cock show up tell the gang “you had the power to save magic all along” or something. Then everyone will just be like “...are you fucking kidding me?!?”. 

Maybe they just have to click the keys together three times and say “I want magic home, I want magic home”...

[AudienceofOne]

3 hours ago, Chris24601 said:

I'm starting to suspect that the Castle at the Edge of the World is a red herring/trap and the real solution to all this was actually spilled by Hades a few episodes back; Gods can turn magic on and off basically at their will. Goddess Julia just has to realize that she can turn the magic back on herself.

Spoiler

The books didn't something really interesting with this quest. I'm hoping that's what they're aiming for here.

[Miles]

All hail high king Margo!

 

It's nice that Q mentioned his other life to his father. I hope next season we get some more scenes between him and Elliot. Those two have quite a few things to work through together and I'd love to see it.

 

Also loved Elliot saying "I will say what I wish my father had said to me... I'm so happy you're dating a bear." I knew something along those lines was coming from the start, but the execution was just brilliant.

 

On 29.3.2018 at 5:49 AM, MissL said:

I don't remember, why does Qs dad have cancer if there is magic? And did he already know about magi? because he seemed to accept Qs story pretty easily considering Q started this show in a mental hospital. Up until this season Q was actually kind of low on my list of who I liked (so glad I stuck with this show anyway) so I have very little memory of what happened with this storyline. 

When his father first got cancer and Quentin was looking for a magical cure he was told that there wasn't one and that there was a theory that cancer might actually be a very old, very powerfull curse that has plagued life since forever. I guess that theory was proven correct. I'm wondering if actually all cancer was caused by magic and what doctors made of it when everybody in the world went into remission.

Also yes, Quentin showed his father that magic was real and he could do it when it was still on.

Edited April 1, 2018 by Miles

[txvoodoo]

I just watched this week's episode, and all I can really say is that this season has been great. It feels like the show really found its heart. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Making magic:

 

Clips:
Democratic magic

Queen's way

[treasaigh]

Quentin's talk with his father at the end gutted me.  He's not paying attention if he doesn't see how he's been changed because of the quest.  A Quentin who is sure of himself and his path is something to behold.

One nit picky point.  If Margo won with the talking animals vote, why didn't they just go with Eliot?  He's the one who gave Fen his blessing.  Wouldn't the bear be happier with the one who actually gave his blessing to his daughter to date an animal, a real, tangible, immediate thing, over someone who agreed only in abstract with no consequences?  I have a hard time believing Eliot's statements would have swung the vote that much.  Just look at how many things people ignore on all sides of an issue?  If this was truly a reflection of our politics and elections, they still would have voted for Eliot.  That's my opinion anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I'm totally happy with Margo as King.  I truly think she wanted it more than Eliot.  I suspect it was done this way for dramatic effect, which is a thing that happens in TV shows.  And I love how each of them was so concerned about the feelings of the other.  They are truly the OTP of this show.

The whole Penny thing is weird.  I'm having a hard time warming up to Penny23.  Penny40 might have been a jerk, but he showed variation in emotion.  Penny23 is too flat I think.  Something.  He seems like a nice guy, but I'm just not feeling him.  That being said I would not be surprised to *not* see him on the last episode.  I think it might be something they revisit next season maybe?  Or they just drop it completely.  And if he does come back I'm not sure I see him coming back to earth.  He made a choice when he talked to Hades to move on with his (not quite) life.  I think they are going to stick with that.  This show likes its difficult decisions.

[ElleMo]

14 minutes ago, treasaigh said:

One nit picky point.  If Margo won with the talking animals vote, why didn't they just go with Eliot?  He's the one who gave Fen his blessing.  Wouldn't the bear be happier with the one who actually gave his blessing to his daughter to date an animal, a real, tangible, immediate thing, over someone who agreed only in abstract with no consequences?  I have a hard time believing Eliot's statements would have swung the vote that much.  Just look at how many things people ignore on all sides of an issue?  If this was truly a reflection of our politics and elections, they still would have voted for Eliot.  That's my opinion anyway.

Margo actually spoke to the bear, Elliot did not.  She is also the one who brought the issue up to Elliot.  

[treasaigh]

But if you listen closely the bear says "Thank you Fray's dad", or something very similar after Eliot gives his blessing.  So the bear knew that Eliot supported him.

Or I dreamed I heard that.

[The Companion]

2 hours ago, treasaigh said:

One nit picky point.  If Margo won with the talking animals vote, why didn't they just go with Eliot?  He's the one who gave Fen his blessing.  Wouldn't the bear be happier with the one who actually gave his blessing to his daughter to date an animal, a real, tangible, immediate thing, over someone who agreed only in abstract with no consequences?  I have a hard time believing Eliot's statements would have swung the vote that much.  Just look at how many things people ignore on all sides of an issue?  If this was truly a reflection of our politics and elections, they still would have voted for Eliot.  That's my opinion anyway.

The whole Penny thing is weird.  I'm having a hard time warming up to Penny23.  Penny40 might have been a jerk, but he showed variation in emotion.  Penny23 is too flat I think.  Something.  He seems like a nice guy, but I'm just not feeling him.  That being said I would not be surprised to *not* see him on the last episode.  I think it might be something they revisit next season maybe?  Or they just drop it completely.  And if he does come back I'm not sure I see him coming back to earth.  He made a choice when he talked to Hades to move on with his (not quite) life.  I think they are going to stick with that.  This show likes its difficult decisions.

I can see things swinging hard with a group of people who have never had a vote. They are not as cynical as voters are in our world because they haven't experienced broken campaign promises and they don't have long-held party beliefs with which a candidate is affiliated. Eliot appears to have given his blessing to the union but Margo actually sat and listened in a judgment free manner. 

Penny 23 is almost too nice. The contrast of the characters makes me immediately suspicious because I have clearly watched too much sci fi and horror. I am honestly not sure where they will go with Penny's storyline. At this point, basically all the characters have complicated relationships. I do appreciate that he seems to recognize that Kady is going through the same thing he is with Julia, namely seeing someone who looks like the person they love but who is actually a totally different person. I do wonder if it will set up some answers on the time loop vs. alternate reality discussion. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

Margo actually spoke to the bear, Elliot did not.  She is also the one who brought the issue up to Elliot.  

I think the point was that Margo tacitly agreed to legalize bestiality, if only inadvertently, and that's a big issue with the talking animals because they want to be allowed to inter-marry with humans. Eliot never specifically promised anything to the talking animal voters. I also think, obviously, it was meant for laughs that this happened the way it did. 

[treasaigh]

1 hour ago, The Companion said:

Penny 23 is almost too nice. The contrast of the characters makes me immediately suspicious because I have clearly watched too much sci fi and horror. I am honestly not sure where they will go with Penny's storyline. At this point, basically all the characters have complicated relationships. I do appreciate that he seems to recognize that Kady is going through the same thing he is with Julia, namely seeing someone who looks like the person they love but who is actually a totally different person. I do wonder if it will set up some answers on the time loop vs. alternate reality discussion. 

I think this is a whole YMMV thing, but "nice" isn't the vibe I get from Penny23.  It's his flat and slightly slowed, entirely too consistent, speech pattern.  It rubs me the wrong way.  Even when threatening Josh about hurting Julia a couple episodes ago (I think it was Josh) he never varied in his delivery.  It never feels like the volume, speed, or pitch changes.  Having seen Penny40, I know what the actor is capable of so this is obviously a choice, but it kind of drives me nuts.  That being said, I don't think he's actually evil or anything.  Just a mellower, nicer Penny.  But I hope he can find a way to be a little more varied in his speech in the future. 

On 3/29/2018 at 2:36 PM, call me ishmael said:

i'm quite concerned about the latter.  Although I suspect it won't work I was wondering if anyone else thought it was very suspicious that Alice didn't give Quentin the little thing that was supposed to tear Julia's magic out if she didn't go along?  I love libraries but I really hate The Library.

I just watched the scene to be sure, but she did give it to Quentin.  But what I did notice the second time watching it was how Quentin said they have 8 questers and 7 keys.  How many people want to lay bets that by the time it's done their are only 7 questers.  The question is who do they lose?  Goddess Julia seems an obvious choice.  Katy because she gives up over the loss of Penny40?  Alice and her agreement with the Library?  Josh due to his Quickening?

[KaleyFirefly]

On 3/29/2018 at 12:43 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I felt bad for Penny when he realized that Kady was using the unity key to try to talk to Penny40 and she told him in no uncertain terms that Penny 40 is the real Penny and Penny 23 is the other Penny. I understand what she's saying because she is in timeline 40 and she knew Penny40, but that doesn't make Penny 23 any less real. The poor guy is already trying to adjust to timeline 40 and adjusting to all of these relationships with people who he knew different versions of in timeline 23.

Don't get me wrong - I understand why Kady is so salty with Penny. She's looking at someone who looks like the person she loves but isn't actually the same person who she fell in love with and has a history with. I just wish she would remember that the same is true for Penny 23, not just with Julia but with everyone else he knew in his timeline.

I totally agree! Penny23 is still actually Penny. The timelines diverged after they got into Brakebills. So Penny23 is the Penny who got into Brakebills, which means he is still Penny, just not the one with memories of the last several years of Timeline 40. But it irritates me that Kady is treating him as "not Penny" as if he's some stranger inside Penny's body. He is still the man she loved, because he is still actually Penny. Yes, he's not the Penny from HER timeline, but he's not a stranger either.

I'm sure we will see Penny40 again, he's not gone!

The Fillorian election definitely was a commentary on our 2016 elections, with Elliot saying, it doesn't matter what you promise, it doesn't have to be true, and Margo asking why Tick is trying to bore everyone to death droning on about economics and policy and his detailed plans for Fillory. (I'm glad they kept him alive at the end so he could help them)

High King Margo was a great idea, and her coronation dress was so pretty. And now she has a cool magic eye! (Poor Fen with her toes though, she can't catch a break).

If Elliot is no longer High King, does that mean he is now free to marry whomever he wants? Fen can stay at the castle, but Elliot can marry that guy he likes (forgot his name)

Those messenger bunnies are hilarious!

I'm glad that Julia is doing a lot of good with her powers, fixing the forest and Dean Fogg's eyes. I do like her character better but the actress still bugs me. With Alice it's the opposite -- I like the actress but her character bugs me.

[KaleyFirefly]

On 3/31/2018 at 12:50 PM, Chris24601 said:

I'm starting to suspect that the Castle at the Edge of the World is a red herring/trap and the real solution to all this was actually spilled by Hades a few episodes back; Gods can turn magic on and off basically at their will. Goddess Julia just has to realize that she can turn the magic back on herself.

In other words, the real answer is that, just like all those classic quest stories, the thing you're actually looking for was actually inside you the whole time; you just needed the quest to let it out. Letting the magic out might also be how they resolve Julia's godhood plot in a way that keeps her from having to leave or be too OP; she releases the magic to the world so she's left no stronger than any other magician.

I like this theory! I can picture this happening at the end.

[The Companion]

10 hours ago, KaleyFirefly said:

I totally agree! Penny23 is still actually Penny. The timelines diverged after they got into Brakebills. So Penny23 is the Penny who got into Brakebills, which means he is still Penny, just not the one with memories of the last several years of Timeline 40. But it irritates me that Kady is treating him as "not Penny" as if he's some stranger inside Penny's body. He is still the man she loved, because he is still actually Penny. Yes, he's not the Penny from HER timeline, but he's not a stranger either.

I'm sure we will see Penny40 again, he's not gone!

I think it's something interesting they have explored in a few different ways. Are Eliot and Q the same men they were at the end of their lifetime if they remember it but don't feel they lived it? Is Penny the same person if his experience diverged drastically from the current timeline? Is post-miffen Alice the same person? These Pennys should theoretically be similar because they diverge in the recent past, but our experiences definitely shape us. I do think it would actually be harder for Kady to think of him as the same Penny, because then he is the same man except that he doesn't love her. What I do find interesting is that both of them are struggling with the same thing. Penny lost Julia and getting a different version of Julia has not resolved the issue. The same is true for Kady.

Agreed on Penny 40. I don't buy that the last thing we see is him eating an ominous cupcake of doom.

[Hanahope]

11 hours ago, KaleyFirefly said:

The Fillorian election definitely was a commentary on our 2016 elections, with Elliot saying, it doesn't matter what you promise, it doesn't have to be true, and Margo asking why Tick is trying to bore everyone to death droning on about economics and policy and his detailed plans for Fillory. (I'm glad they kept him alive at the end so he could help them)

Yeah, that was pretty obvious.

I'm glad that they did finally address the talking/sentient animals, because I was wondering about them.  We hardly see them at all.  I suppose that includes the centaurs as well.  I too almost expected the vote to go for Julia, but very glad it was Margo.  She has proven to be a good ruler.  The fairy eye is a great twist.

Interesting that Renard's father was Hades.  I wonder if that will affect how Hades deals with Underworld Penny.