S19.E16: Dare

[dttruman]

14 minutes ago, sugarplum said:

Long time viewer of SVU - since the beginning. Never commented here. This episode pushed me over the edge, however. 

 

So much wrong with this episode. My sister was a 2 time heart transplant recipient. I’m a huge advocate of organ donation and spend much of my time volunteering for Donate Life and dispelling rumors about organ donation. This episode single handedly counteracts every bit of that. NOTHING in this episode about organ donation was true. Do they not do any research? I’m so angry. Organ donation is 100% anonymous - unless the donor and recipient BOTH choose to be made known to the other. There is no was the doctor at the time of death would know who the donor organs would go to. All organ donation is arranged anonymously through UNOS and are matched through very specific, strict criteria, including, but not limited to: severity of illness, status on waiting list, blood and tissue type, age, weight, cavity size, just to name a few. The boy represented may have sounded good in theory, but to be as in need of a heart as they said he was, his criteria would have required him to be in patient, and most likely on life saving devices. Again - my sister has received 2 of these. I have intimate knowledge. The doctor WOULD NOT know the names of the patients who received the organs she harvested...because in real life...she would not be the doctor harvesting the organs. The way things work is, once a patient is declared brain dead, but still has viable organs - and next of kin has signed consent forms, UNOS is notified with the patients information (including blood/tissue type, age, size, lifestyle, etc). UNOS then notifies the programs for the next patients who match those organs - they may or may not technically be the next on the list, they are just the next on the list that match. Those programs send THEIR procurement teams to harvest the organs - so these are doctors who have never seen or worked on the patient (who has already been declared brain dead) to remove the organs. Each hospital who will transplant the organs comes to get their own organs. And each team may decline an organ - it may be too large for their patient, for instance, if so, it will go to the next on the list. NO doctor who is trying to save a patients life is the one who procures the organs. And never would a potential donor and recipient meet the way they showed. 

 

What kills me even more is April is National Donate Life Month. While Donate Life America does all they can to try to get more people to donate, SVU just took us back 30 years by making people think a doctor is going to harvest your organs without consent. Someone is added to the transplant waiting list every 10 minutes. EVERY TEN MINUTES. Not enough people are signing up to be organ donors already. I’m so disgusted with SVU. How dare they. 

I want to thank Sugarplum for providing us with precise factual procedures for organ transplants. The only thing I could provide was "It just doesn't sound right". Since Hargitay probably makes the most money, she needs to have her pay cut by 5%. They should then use this 5% and hire an accurate researcher.

[sugarplum]

2 minutes ago, dttruman said:

I want to thank Sugarplum for providing us with precise factual procedures for organ transplants. The only thing I could provide was "It just doesn't sound right". Since Hargitay probably makes the most money, she needs to have her pay cut by 5%. They should then use this 5% and hire an accurate researcher.

No problem. I consider it my mission to get the word out about organ donation. Without it, I would have missed out on 21 years with my sister. 

 

And I vote dock her pay by 15%. 5% to a researcher, 10% to organ donation outreach. ?‍♀️

[dttruman]

1 minute ago, sugarplum said:

And I vote dock her pay by 15%. 5% to a researcher, 10% to organ donation outreach.

I think Hargitay would fight you on that. She would then take the incident and turn it into an SVU episode, where Benson would take your stance (the moral high ground) and have someone else play the overpaid narcissist who won't spend a little extra for quality purposes.

[sugarplum]

20 minutes ago, dttruman said:

I think Hargitay would fight you on that. She would then take the incident and turn it into an SVU episode, where Benson would take your stance (the moral high ground) and have someone else play the overpaid narcissist who won't spend a little extra for quality purposes.

Haha! Touché 

[Gigi43]

I try not to get too judgemental about medical stuff having spent a lot of time in hospitals.  But this is the second episode  recently where they botched basic medical stuff and it's annoying  me.

 

The doctor didn't ask for consent and the parents were in the waiting room. They mentioned the rules in Europe  that didn't even apply to this situation. Knowing all the recipients was BS. The fact that she did track all of them made her seem stalker-ish. No one doctor handles it all. When Barba pulled the plug on the baby all the interesting aspects of telling a story about life support goes out the window because it wasn't  his place and the father wasn't there. Plus they flip flopped in the beginning as to how bad the babys breathing was and there was no mention of attempts to revive him as if you can turn off machines and the ICU will just stand around and say okay it's done.

 

I get this is a crime show. I appreciate more than just he said/she said rapes. But I think when you are writing something  medically based (and presumably looking for credit for being topical ) you should get the basic things right or not do it at all.

[CelticBlackCat]

Thank you sugarplum for your contribution to the forum and letting us know the true facts.  In this fictional scenario, I think Dr. Donna was a rogue physician and she must have other people in cahoots with her for her to get away with being a fraud for so long.

[sugarplum]

I totally get that it’s a fictional scenario. My problem is the negative light it puts on the true issue of organ donation - which couldn’t be farther from the truth that this episode portrayed. 

[shapeshifter]

@sugarplum's post^^ also explains why there was no PSA to go with this episode, which might reflect the "fake" information times in which  we live, but is in no way a reflection of anything that could actually happen IRL.

[txhorns79]

The episode made me so angry.  No, a doctor cannot decide for herself to presume consent for organ donation.  No, it doesn't matter if the organ is going to an adorable child (and there would absolutely be no way a potential donee would be testifying at that trial, as it's not relevant and extremely prejudicial).  And no, the parents are not selfish for not wanting their dead child's illegally harvested organs to be donated.  I couldn't even when the father of the dead girl took it upon himself to apologize to the other family (and even worse, he apologized on behalf of his wife when she didn't even want him to engage them.)  Flames on the side of my face!

[WendyCR72]

If gross misrepresentation and no basis of reality is what the franchise has been reduced to (and I realize it was tweaked before, but come on now), time to pull the freaking plug, since it sounds like neither the writers, EP, or even the cast gives a damn anymore.

But that's just me.

[Xeliou66]

This show still has good moments and some of the episodes this year have been interesting and decent, but Mariska’s huge ego and some preachy writing gets in the way and prevents an episode from being all around good. Last nights was pretty good but instead of being able to explore the plot a bit more we had to get a few minutes of Mariska overacting and spewing her 2 cents on the issue. There have been several pretty good episodes and a couple that come close to being very good but the overfocus on Benson fucks it up. It’s not time to throw in the towel yet IMO, the show would be good if it wasn’t for Mariska’s raging massive ego.

Edited March 16, 2018 by Xeliou66

[WendyCR72]

50 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

There have been several pretty good episodes and a couple that come close to being very good but the overfocus on Benson fucks it up. It’s not time to throw in the towel yet IMO, the show would be good if it wasn’t for Mariska’s raging massive ego.

I get what you're saying, but I don't see Hargitay's influence being curtailed. So I can't see how the show can turn around if that isn't.

To bring this back to the show, thanks to @sugarplum for the post about real organ donation procedure! Who says PTV isn't educational?  :-)

[Gigi43]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

If gross misrepresentation and no basis of reality is what the franchise has been reduced to (and I realize it was tweaked before, but come on now), time to pull the freaking plug,

 

Where's Barba when you really need him?! (....couldn't  resist....)

[WendyCR72]

1 minute ago, Gigi43 said:

 

Where's Barba when you really need him?! (....couldn't  resist....)

I see what you did there.  :-)

[Raja]

12 hours ago, Maximona said:

That was the high point of the episode for me!

Dreadful, dreadful, dreadful episode in oh, so many ways!

First of all -- why was the Sex Crimes Unit following up an organ harvesting scandal?

Secondly, Dr. Donna admitted she forged the signatures!  I'm no lawyer, of course.  But wouldn't that be grounds for discontinuing the trial?  Saving some of the taxpayers' hard-earned money?  My understanding is that the "necessity" cited by the defense lawyer is limited to proximal events.  Am I wrong?

Finally, the new ADA could take first prize in an Abraham Lincoln impersonator contest with a little bit of help from Just For Men.  Nothing wrong with that per se, I guess, but I find it awfully distracting.

Special Victims is more than sex crimes they also handle crimes against children. Since they had the case until it was decided it was not a homicide they were the detectives on the scene. Why didn't the police and DA's office reassign the case? Maybe they just are not that busy and you spread the workload. Coming from The Closer/Major Crimes franchise with their focus on LAPD budgets that was often the case when they caught a normal crime that characters asked why are we here, there is nothing "major" about a case.

[wknt3]

17 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

If gross misrepresentation and no basis of reality is what the franchise has been reduced to (and I realize it was tweaked before, but come on now), time to pull the freaking plug, since it sounds like neither the writers, EP, or even the cast gives a damn anymore.

But that's just me.

I think that we are being a bit hard on the show sometimes this year when it comes to realism, perhaps as a sort of allergic reaction to the terrible writing of last season where there was no coherency whatsoever to a lot of episodes. The show hasn't been particularly grounded in realism on matters of medicine, law, cops investigating cases they are personally involved with, etc. since the earliest seasons. I think the biggest problem is that the insistence on extensively focusing on Benson's personal life, how the case affects her deeply emotionally, her relationship with the ADA, etc. sometimes doesn't leave enough time to properly handle plot mechanics so it's a little more obvious than it used to be. Or perhaps it just lacks the self-awareness of the later Baer years. But I do agree it's time to end it gracefully (I won't say "pull the plug" because it's obvious that the show doesn't associate that phrasing with a respectful and dignified ending given recent events) since it's obvious that Mariska simply isn't going to change and those in charge can't or won't force her to.

Edited March 16, 2018 by wknt3
typo

[dttruman]

3 hours ago, wknt3 said:

I think the biggest problem is that the insistence on extensively focusing on Benson's personal life, how the case affects her deeply emotionally, her relationship with the ADA, etc. sometimes doesn't leave enough time to properly handle plot mechanics so it's a little more obvious than it used to be.

Thank you for putting so succinctly, what I have been meandering about for the last few months.

[Xeliou66]

Right on point, because of the heavy focus on Benson and her personal life and personal views on cases, we don’t have enough time to explore the details of cases that would greatly improve the episodes and add clarity to them. A lot of the writers are actually good and the stories this season have been much more interesting than last season, but Mariska’s control over the show is preventing it from being good overall.

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, dttruman said:

 

5 hours ago, wknt3 said:

I think the biggest problem is that the insistence on extensively focusing on Benson's personal life, how the case affects her deeply emotionally, her relationship with the ADA, etc. sometimes doesn't leave enough time to properly handle plot mechanics so it's a little more obvious than it used to be.

Thank you for putting so succinctly, what I have been meandering about for the last few months.

 

I guess then that the viewers are supposed to identity with Olivia—and maybe many do, but not here, that I've noticed.
It might be because in trying to make the character all things to all people, she winds up being unidentifiable to most anyone. When she was on the scene in the gym, looking for and finding Zoe, I was trying to remember Cragen being similarly involved—and he may have been, but here it felt contrived.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

I guess then that the viewers are supposed to identity with Olivia—and maybe many do, but not here, that I've noticed.
It might be because in trying to make the character all things to all people, she winds up being unidentifiable to most anyone. When she was on the scene in the gym, looking for and finding Zoe, I was trying to remember Cragen being similarly involved—and he may have been, but here it felt contrived.

They are trying to appeal to one type of viewer, the type that identifies with Benson, almost all 20-30 year old upper-middle class white women with strong SJW leanings. That’s why almost all the victims on the show seem to fit this profile, although last season was much worse than this season in that regard. Mariska’s influence has turned the show into just as much of a pulpit for her to preach her views on and a PSA for her Joyful Heart Foundation as it is a crime show. A lot of the people who are the most outspoken on social media are the type that love Benson, but the majority of fans are sick of the show being all about Benson/MH.

[CelticBlackCat]

19 hours ago, sugarplum said:

I totally get that it’s a fictional scenario. My problem is the negative light it puts on the true issue of organ donation - which couldn’t be farther from the truth that this episode portrayed. 

sugarplum, I didn't mean to correct or remind you that this is fiction!  :D  I just meant that in this episode, which is fictional and not in keeping with the facts you presented, that I think Dr. Donna was a rogue operator who must've had accomplices along the way who let her get away with her fraudulent practices for so long.  In this epi, she was portrayed as doing everything on her own, but someone must have suspected something after over 30 procedures.  Since no one turned her in, I can only conclude that she had cohorts in her greater good campaign.

Thanks for explaining the true organ donation rules, regulations and practices to us!

[illdoc]

6 minutes ago, CelticBlackCat said:

Thanks for explaining the true organ donation rules, regulations and practices to us!

I actually saw an episode of Quincy (it was a couple of years ago on MeTV) which dealt with organ donation before the rules were in place! Scary!!! First, even though the 25-year old brain-dead donor had an organ donor card, his parents wouldn't let them take the organs because some minister said he wasn't really dead. So there was dealing with that (the whole "what is dead" concept). Finally the parents relented. The person who should have gotten the organs (kidneys, since this is how I discovered that for some patients eventually dialysis stops working) didn't, because the hospital decided to give them to a large hospital contributor. So Quincy was actually calling around hospitals trying to find a kidney for the guy (which, for the record, he eventually did). No national organ bank/registry, just whoever the hospital wants to give them too. Fortunately, a lot has changed in the 40+ years since that episode was made.

[ForeverAlone]

While I get that all of these type of shows are fictional, I wish there was some sort of grounding in reality with the particulars of their stories. Even if the writers don't give a rat's ass about realism for realism's sake, they should realize that they do a disservice to their story when fans can pick apart the stories, rather than talking about the issues they presumably want us talking about. So many fans pointed out that the organ donation procedures in the episode don't even remotely adhere to reality, or the giant plot hole about how 30+ families had zero clue this was happening before. It just makes the writers look either amaterish or unprofessional, or simply lacking in a shred of giving a damn. The writers SHOULD be able to write a realistic story, and if they are unable or unwilling to do so, then maybe that particular story should not be written. SVU writers aren't the only ones who do it, and I call out all the writers of all the shows who do this sort of jackassery, and so do many fans.

[mamadrama]

I don't have much more to add about the episode. Most everyone who's already posted has echoed my thoughts. I CAN, however, add something from the parents' perspective. 

I totally got the stuff they were saying about implied consent and how hard it is to make that decision at the moment. My son died unexpectedly in 2010. I was literally sitting there in the emergency room with him, at his bedside, watching lividity sink in and his skin discolor,  (I live in the mountains and it took them 4 hours to find the coroner and bring him in because it was deer hunting season), and trying to make phone calls to friends and relatives. In the middle of this, they came in and asked me if I wanted to donate his organs. It's not just for replacements but also for research purposes-you don't get to pick what happens with the organs. I immediately said yes because even though MY son was dead, if I could help someone else's kid (even through research) then I wanted to do it. However, that wasn't the end of it. They took me to the nurse's station and put me on the phone with the organ donation people (couldn't tell you who they were) and for the next hour or more I had to answer a list of questions about his health. A policeman came in at that time to ask me some questions (standard procedure here when a child dies suddenly) and he stood over me the entire time, handing me tissues while I cried. All of the questions were standard but some were nuts. (No, he didn't drink alcohol or smoke. He was 3 months old.) When I got off the phone, that policeman shook his head and said, "You don't know how many times I've seen that. It's insane that they make parents go through this like that." 

I mean, at that moment I didn't know my ass from a hole in the ground. I was in complete shock, just working on sheer adrenaline. I understand WHY I had to do what I did with the questions and stuff but it's really the last thing I wanted to be doing. They came in and took his body while I was on the phone. I didn't get to touch him or see him again until the funeral, though they let my mom pick him up and hold him one last time. I am resentful. 

I really wish that they had some kind of implied consent, that unless you expressively say "no", it's taken as a yes. And those questions...I wish there was another way of doing that. It truly was awful. 

[CelticBlackCat]

3 hours ago, mamadrama said:

I don't have much more to add about the episode. Most everyone who's already posted has echoed my thoughts. I CAN, however, add something from the parents' perspective. 

I totally got the stuff they were saying about implied consent and how hard it is to make that decision at the moment. My son died unexpectedly in 2010. I was literally sitting there in the emergency room with him, at his bedside, watching lividity sink in and his skin discolor,  (I live in the mountains and it took them 4 hours to find the coroner and bring him in because it was deer hunting season), and trying to make phone calls to friends and relatives. In the middle of this, they came in and asked me if I wanted to donate his organs. It's not just for replacements but also for research purposes-you don't get to pick what happens with the organs. I immediately said yes because even though MY son was dead, if I could help someone else's kid (even through research) then I wanted to do it. However, that wasn't the end of it. They took me to the nurse's station and put me on the phone with the organ donation people (couldn't tell you who they were) and for the next hour or more I had to answer a list of questions about his health. A policeman came in at that time to ask me some questions (standard procedure here when a child dies suddenly) and he stood over me the entire time, handing me tissues while I cried. All of the questions were standard but some were nuts. (No, he didn't drink alcohol or smoke. He was 3 months old.) When I got off the phone, that policeman shook his head and said, "You don't know how many times I've seen that. It's insane that they make parents go through this like that." 

I mean, at that moment I didn't know my ass from a hole in the ground. I was in complete shock, just working on sheer adrenaline. I understand WHY I had to do what I did with the questions and stuff but it's really the last thing I wanted to be doing. They came in and took his body while I was on the phone. I didn't get to touch him or see him again until the funeral, though they let my mom pick him up and hold him one last time. I am resentful. 

I really wish that they had some kind of implied consent, that unless you expressively say "no", it's taken as a yes. And those questions...I wish there was another way of doing that. It truly was awful. 

I am so sorry for the loss of your son.  I cannot imagine the shock and grief you suffered and have to deal with for the rest of your life.  The worst I've suffered is a miscarriage and I can't imagine losing a baby after he or she has been born, or stillborn.

I don't know if a 3-month-old or any minor would be subject to implied consent laws.  When you have a newborn, the last thing you're thinking of is what would I do with my baby in that situation.  What would happen if they just took off and harvested organs without your knowledge or consent and you didn't want that or had beliefs that did not go along with that?

I'm sorry for your pain.  Blessings to you and your little angel resting in Heaven.

[mamadrama]

2 hours ago, CelticBlackCat said:

I am so sorry for the loss of your son.  I cannot imagine the shock and grief you suffered and have to deal with for the rest of your life.  The worst I've suffered is a miscarriage and I can't imagine losing a baby after he or she has been born, or stillborn.

I don't know if a 3-month-old or any minor would be subject to implied consent laws.  When you have a newborn, the last thing you're thinking of is what would I do with my baby in that situation.  What would happen if they just took off and harvested organs without your knowledge or consent and you didn't want that or had beliefs that did not go along with that?

I'm sorry for your pain.  Blessings to you and your little angel resting in Heaven.

I think it's a very gray area. It's hard for me to answer that because I would be okay with it since it doesn't go against my beliefs and I am a full supporter of organ donations. I know others who would not be okay with it, though, and that would be a real problem for them. In the case of a minor, implied consent would fall to the guardian, like most everything else does for those underage. In my situation, I WISH they'd just harvested the organs without asking, and that's what I was saying in my post. I'd have rather that been done and taken care of instead of me having to sit there for an hour, answering questions on the phone, when I was literally experiencing the worst pain I'd ever had. Having to sit there and go over all that information, when I could have been spending that time with my family or holding my child for the last time, and actually listening to them as they talked about the procedures that they'd do to remove the organs was awful. I WISH they had just quietly taken him away and done it. I'm glad that I donated his organs-it was the steps I had to go through that I didn't like. 

[shapeshifter]

Reading your posts, @mamadrama, makes me think that your experience is the real story worthy of an episode, especially since this show does like to do PSAs, and clearly they missed the mark for being able to do that with this episode. 

[Kel Varnsen]

On 3/15/2018 at 7:45 AM, sockii said:

No other nurses or staff present noticed that something wasn't right? Forget jail time, this doctor would have her ass handed to her by losing her license and facing multiple civil lawsuits - the hospital as well - for what happened here.

That part kind of bugged me. They only mentioned her medical license at the end, and that she would lose it as a result of a felony conviction. But I would have to think that forging medical documents (especially since she admitted to it) would be a pretty huge ethical violation and result in instant license loss, even without a conviction.  I thought it would have been nice to bring that up before the end of the episode.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Anyone here remember the Angel episode, when he told Buffy to take her ass home?

 

Pointing out that everything isn't always about her.

Oh God, if only somebody on SVU would......

[sugarplum]

On 3/16/2018 at 3:51 PM, CelticBlackCat said:

sugarplum, I didn't mean to correct or remind you that this is fiction!  :D  I just meant that in this episode, which is fictional and not in keeping with the facts you presented, that I think Dr. Donna was a rogue operator who must've had accomplices along the way who let her get away with her fraudulent practices for so long.  In this epi, she was portrayed as doing everything on her own, but someone must have suspected something after over 30 procedures.  Since no one turned her in, I can only conclude that she had cohorts in her greater good campaign.

Thanks for explaining the true organ donation rules, regulations and practices to us!

I’m so sorry! I truly didn’t think you were trying to correct me, but I definitely came across that way, and I apologize. This is just a sensitive subject for me, and at a sensitive subject - we just recently lost my sister due to an infection. Because of the immunosuppresion drugs you have to be on following a transplant, her body just wasn’t able to fight it, even though she fought hard. She left behind a 4 year old. So this episode was really a gut punch for me. 

[sugarplum]

On 3/16/2018 at 7:59 PM, mamadrama said:

I don't have much more to add about the episode. Most everyone who's already posted has echoed my thoughts. I CAN, however, add something from the parents' perspective. 

I totally got the stuff they were saying about implied consent and how hard it is to make that decision at the moment. My son died unexpectedly in 2010. I was literally sitting there in the emergency room with him, at his bedside, watching lividity sink in and his skin discolor,  (I live in the mountains and it took them 4 hours to find the coroner and bring him in because it was deer hunting season), and trying to make phone calls to friends and relatives. In the middle of this, they came in and asked me if I wanted to donate his organs. It's not just for replacements but also for research purposes-you don't get to pick what happens with the organs. I immediately said yes because even though MY son was dead, if I could help someone else's kid (even through research) then I wanted to do it. However, that wasn't the end of it. They took me to the nurse's station and put me on the phone with the organ donation people (couldn't tell you who they were) and for the next hour or more I had to answer a list of questions about his health. A policeman came in at that time to ask me some questions (standard procedure here when a child dies suddenly) and he stood over me the entire time, handing me tissues while I cried. All of the questions were standard but some were nuts. (No, he didn't drink alcohol or smoke. He was 3 months old.) When I got off the phone, that policeman shook his head and said, "You don't know how many times I've seen that. It's insane that they make parents go through this like that." 

I mean, at that moment I didn't know my ass from a hole in the ground. I was in complete shock, just working on sheer adrenaline. I understand WHY I had to do what I did with the questions and stuff but it's really the last thing I wanted to be doing. They came in and took his body while I was on the phone. I didn't get to touch him or see him again until the funeral, though they let my mom pick him up and hold him one last time. I am resentful. 

I really wish that they had some kind of implied consent, that unless you expressively say "no", it's taken as a yes. And those questions...I wish there was another way of doing that. It truly was awful. 

I am SO sorry for your loss. I have a toddler and can’t imagine. But as someone who has watched a heart recipient grow and thrive for 21 years, on behalf of your precious babies recipients - THANK YOU. My sister was 10 when she received her first heart. Within 3 months she was back at school, back in ballet, within 6 months she was back on the softball field. She graduated from high school with honors, graduated from college with a double major, got married, and had a beautiful daughter. Her mission was to live doing everything her donor couldn’t do. Thank you for allowing other children to do that for your sweet baby. I am so sorry for your loss. My prayers are with you. 

On 3/16/2018 at 4:42 PM, ForeverAlone said:

While I get that all of these type of shows are fictional, I wish there was some sort of grounding in reality with the particulars of their stories. Even if the writers don't give a rat's ass about realism for realism's sake, they should realize that they do a disservice to their story when fans can pick apart the stories, rather than talking about the issues they presumably want us talking about. So many fans pointed out that the organ donation procedures in the episode don't even remotely adhere to reality, or the giant plot hole about how 30+ families had zero clue this was happening before. It just makes the writers look either amaterish or unprofessional, or simply lacking in a shred of giving a damn. The writers SHOULD be able to write a realistic story, and if they are unable or unwilling to do so, then maybe that particular story should not be written. SVU writers aren't the only ones who do it, and I call out all the writers of all the shows who do this sort of jackassery, and so do many fans.

Thank you. Transplant surgeries are a relatively common surgery these days. This isn’t 30 years ago when it was something that wasn’t being done every day and they could get by with making up a story to fit their needs. 

[CelticBlackCat]

3 hours ago, sugarplum said:

I’m so sorry! I truly didn’t think you were trying to correct me, but I definitely came across that way, and I apologize. This is just a sensitive subject for me, and at a sensitive subject - we just recently lost my sister due to an infection. Because of the immunosuppresion drugs you have to be on following a transplant, her body just wasn’t able to fight it, even though she fought hard. She left behind a 4 year old. So this episode was really a gut punch for me. 

No problem at all, don't be sorry, no offense taken.  I am so sorry that you've lost your sister.  Prayers for you and your family to find peace and comfort in each other.  I understand wanting to take an hour from reality just to chill and then this episode was thrust at you!  My condolences to you and may your sister rest in peace after such a valiant fight.

[MaryHedwig]

On ‎3‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 7:18 PM, shapeshifter said:

@sugarplum's post^^ also explains why there was no PSA to go with this episode, which might reflect the "fake" information times in which  we live, but is in no way a reflection of anything that could actually happen IRL.

I was looking for a PSA at the end about bullying.

[Xeliou66]

18 minutes ago, MaryHedwig said:

I was looking for a PSA at the end about bullying.

What did bullying have to do with this episode, other than Benson bullying Stone? The PSA about bullying at the end of No Good Reason almost made me vomit BTW.

[MaryHedwig]

4 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

What did bullying have to do with this episode, other than Benson bullying Stone? The PSA about bullying at the end of No Good Reason almost made me vomit BTW.

I was referring to the middle-school dare game in the opening.

[Xeliou66]

15 minutes ago, MaryHedwig said:

I was referring to the middle-school dare game in the opening.

That was more just kids being brainless idiots than bullying. Unfortunately it’s not uncommon for kids to do idiotic and harmful “dares”, just look at the whole Tide Pod challenge stupidity. 

[TV Diva Queen]

On 3/14/2018 at 9:02 PM, CleoCaesar said:

What trite, manipulative shit. (Should I just copy-paste that sentence every week?)

I was watching old West Wing clips on YouTube today and saw the one where Donna calls her old teacher from the Oval Office and wondered what Janel Moloney was up to these days. Guess I have my answer.

I'm sorry, did I just miss whatever gray ambiguity the show was going for? That scumbag surgeon deserved to lose her license and a multi-decades jail sentence for stealing people's organs without consent.

Thank you......that was Donna.  I couldn't place her to save my soul, now can you be dear and tell me who the father of the deceased girl was?  Did he play a defense attorney on the mothership?  

[GalvDuck]

On 3/15/2018 at 4:43 PM, Gigi43 said:

I get this is a crime show. I appreciate more than just he said/she said rapes. But I think when you are writing something  medically based (and presumably looking for credit for being topical ) you should get the basic things right or not do it at all.

LOL, ever watch Grey's Anatomy or Strong Medicine?  ;)  

[dttruman]

On 3/16/2018 at 4:42 PM, ForeverAlone said:

It just makes the writers look either amaterish or unprofessional, or simply lacking in a shred of giving a damn. The writers SHOULD be able to write a realistic story, and if they are unable or unwilling to do so, then maybe that particular story should not be written. SVU writers aren't the only ones who do it, and I call out all the writers of all the shows who do this sort of jackassery, and so do many fans.

Should the writers be taking all the blame here, or should part of the blame go to the producers and executive producers? Is it the producers who come up with the story idea and the writers more or less fill it the blanks with situations and dialogue? I will be honest, I don't exactly know how an idea evolves into a story and the pitfalls it goes through with who approves what of a story.

[dttruman]

On 3/18/2018 at 3:03 PM, Xeliou66 said:

That was more just kids being brainless idiots than bullying. Unfortunately it’s not uncommon for kids to do idiotic and harmful “dares”, just look at the whole Tide Pod challenge stupidity. 

Could they have come up with a better story line using this "dare game"? Where maybe a teacher catches a glimpse of the girl kissing the older boy, but thinks it's the boy assaulting the girl. The reason the teacher misinterprets the situation, is because the boy is actually a new teacher (very young looking) and the whole thing gets blown out of proportion.

[Gigglepuff]

3 hours ago, dttruman said:

Should the writers be taking all the blame here, or should part of the blame go to the producers and executive producers? Is it the producers who come up with the story idea and the writers more or less fill it the blanks with situations and dialogue? I will be honest, I don't exactly know how an idea evolves into a story and the pitfalls it goes through with who approves what of a story.

I'm not sure either, but you'd think that somewhere along the way there'd be some sort of consulting with an expert on whatever the story is about. Then again, look at the whole Noah adoption fiasco. We were supposed to seriously believe that Benson was the ONLY person in the entire state of New York who was qualified to adopt him. I get that they had to shoehorn the story in somehow, but you'd think they'd go to some effort to make things a little bit realistic. Then again, if they did that,  just about the entire squad and most of the lawyers  (aside from Stone, so far), should have been each fired 10 times over by now, and quite possibly imprisoned as well. 

[Joe Hellandback]

You know, I sometimes wonder why we keep watching this show, it seems to annoy so many of us? 

Good; I'm going to go against the grain here and say I rather liked this one. It started off one way but then went another, it was largely a courtroom drama rather than a cop action show which was refreshing. For the first time in ages we had a genuine ethical dilemma and you don't know who's right or wrong, nor does everyone agree what's the right thing to do, especially liked Finn's hard as nails 'dead is dead'. A little cheesy that it's Olivia who has to find the injured girl and make the last second run to stop the chopper but actually a good scene, she's normally so self-righteous but here she genuinely wonders what the right thing to do is and we're right there with her, even the girl's parents aren't sure. Rather surprised the defence don't put her on the stand and try to make the jury see that even she had doubts. We also have Stone vs Olivia at the end and this can only be a good thing, personally I side with Stone as he's correct, you have to make an example of this Doctor however heartrending. Thought they were going to ruin it in the end when they go through her financial records and find something Stone 'needs to see' (how many times in SVU is the villain revealed to be a greedy Doctor who everybody previously admired?) but they resisted the temptation. The one question they should have asked her is did she consent to her son's organs being harvested?     

Bad; No one thought to search the community centre BEFORE they start thinking of kidnapping? To make sure she hadn't collapsed in the locker room from meningitis or whatever? When will they learn to separate witnesses up so they don't intimidate/influence one another? Carisi and Rollins are so taken with the story of the bike guy that they split up and don't even handcuff him? What if he's lying, he's the kidnapper and jumps Amanda (who doesn't even have her gun out) once she's separated from Carisi? Or search his flat properly in case he has her stashed somewhere? I realise it's for dramatic purposes but do we really believe the hospital will phone the SVU to tell them the kid in Buffalo died? Does Stone eat dinner in that same bar every night? Doesn't he own a stove? Also surely these 31 dead kids would have saved more than 31 donor recipients, you only have 31 hearts but you have 62 kidneys, 62 lungs etc and you can get by just fine with 1. 

8/10

[Norma Desmond]

This was a good episode. As much as I liked Barba, for these past few years he became nothing more than Benson's lapdog, and Stone is bringing a much needed dose of testosterone (he's actually the only person with more testiosterone than Benson). Anyway, it wasn't sappy and, while slightly biased towards one side, made for good TV.

[Xeliou66]

On a second rewatch, this episode seemed to have a lot of flaws. 

First of all, the police not searching the whole school when Zoe went missing, had they taken that basic step they might’ve saved her. 

Also, the organ donations are completely confidential, the recipient wouldn’t be told who the organ was coming from and the doctors wouldn’t know either. 

The whole organ harvesting process seemed very rushed.

That being said I liked the episode, it was entertaining, and I loved how Stone didn’t bow to Benson and followed the law, and I agreed with his closing argument, the government and hospitals don’t get to decide what to do with people’s bodies. It’s interesting that Benson doesn’t see harvesting someone’s organs without their consent as violating them and a form of assault.

And Benson was incredibly irritating in this episode, she was on her moral high horse the whole time and her lecturing to Stone was beyond tiresome, and it was absurd at the end how she called Stone a bully and then threw in the cheap shot that Stone was trying to compensate for not being with his father when he died. If you want to see a bully, Benson, look in the fucking mirror! And why is Stone going to Benson’s office to discuss sentencing anyway? If he wants to talk to someone about sentencing he should talk to Jack McCoy, Benson’s role in the case is done, she has no role in the sentencing, so why is Stone talking to her? 

Edited July 27, 2018 by Xeliou66

[TD3000]

I'm still catching up on the last few seasons, so I'm just now watching this.

With the initial "crime", I was thinking it could be headed a couple ways. 1. I think we were all thinking the bike guy wasn't really involved, but I was wondering if they were going to have a different unsavory character nearby abduct the girl. 2. Not sure if anyone else thought this, but with the accidental gym death thing, I had thoughts of the Kendrick Johnson death, but with different demographics and outcomes among the chief players as shows often do.

But all that went out the window when the episode turned into "Something Else", which can be hit-or-miss. I do agree that no matter the emotions and sentimental feelings involved, the doctor was wrong and was rightfully punished (at least I'm pretty sure she was, as the episode ended before a sentence was handed out).

[CrazyInAlabama]

I hated all of the whining about prosecuting the doctor.      People like the doctor are why there are protocols in place for organ donation, and why there are laws about it.    I doubt UNOS (the organ donation coordinators) wouldn't have cancelled the program at the hospital involved in the theft of organs without permission.     So OB wanted the doctor to get away scot free, keep on stealing organs from patients who may or may not be really brain dead,?  I have to wonder if the doctor may have screwed up their treatment so she could keep on forging permissions, and stealing organs.   

In real life, she would have been stripped of her medical license, the hospital would have fired her, and called the licensing board on day one.    UNOS would have taken the ability to transplant from the hospital.  

[wanderingstar]

Just watching this episode. I really like the actor who played Dr. Franchetta, Janel Moloney (had to look her up).

This episode was kind meh. But what else is new with this show.

I did like that moment on the roof when Fin said "Liv, maybe we got here late." That felt real.

[Joe Hellandback]

On 11/27/2019 at 12:31 AM, CrazyInAlabama said:

I hated all of the whining about prosecuting the doctor.      People like the doctor are why there are protocols in place for organ donation, and why there are laws about it.    I doubt UNOS (the organ donation coordinators) wouldn't have cancelled the program at the hospital involved in the theft of organs without permission.     So OB wanted the doctor to get away scot free, keep on stealing organs from patients who may or may not be really brain dead,?  I have to wonder if the doctor may have screwed up their treatment so she could keep on forging permissions, and stealing organs.   

In real life, she would have been stripped of her medical license, the hospital would have fired her, and called the licensing board on day one.    UNOS would have taken the ability to transplant from the hospital.  

Then again if you had a loved one dying from a lack of transplant?

[Judiz]

Why did Olivia have to take the heart as evidence when she had the kidneys and other organs that were harvested but not waiting transplanting. 

[The Wild Sow]

On 3/26/2018 at 8:00 AM, Joe Hellandback said:

Also surely these 31 dead kids would have saved more than 31 donor recipients, you only have 31 hearts but you have 62 kidneys, 62 lungs etc and you can get by just fine with 1. 

That was what really bugged about the end of Season 6's "Parts" too!  

OK, so Amy Solway (Marlee Matlin) was next in line for a donor kidney (because the little boy's dad had tried to buy him one) -- but she gave up her spot to the little boy (right, his name was Kyle)  when the motorcyclist crashed and was a matching donor.  

That was the last we saw of Amy and the show left her fate up in the air.

But really -- didn't that motorcyclist have TWO kidneys?!