S19.E14: Chasing Demons

[ForeverAlone]

02/28/2018 (09:00PM - 10:00PM) (Wednesday) : A doctor (guest star Lorenzo Scott) arrested for sexually abusing his patients is set free after Cassidy's (guest star Dean Winters) testimony causes a mistrial. Also guest starring Kylie Bunbury.

Edited March 1, 2018 by WendyCR72
Just fixed episode formatting

[dttruman]

Is it me or is this the "Most Hypocritical of All Episodes". How many times have we seen Benson over the years telling possible perps, witnesses, other cops, and her own co-workers to be straight with her. How many times has she chastise these same people or even arrested them. In this episode Benson thinks she is justified in breaking the law and she also has time to make one of her little testimonials about her and her son Noah to Stone.

Everybody on that SVU squad but Fin was being hypocritical. It looks like next week Carisi is nailed as a hypocrite.

Question: Can Stone fire or suspend (at the beginning) Cassidy? I thought only the police review board can do that.

[CleoCaesar]

That was some of the worst acting I have ever seen. Dean Winters is terrible. He spoke his lines like it was his first time rehearsing them. And no one was immune this episode. I've seen better acting in elementary-school plays.

Mariska, stop whispering.

[mtlchick]

I see Dean Winters and my immediate reaction is to say "Hey Dummy" (it doesn't help I watched 30 Rock with him in it earlier today.)  

 

That was...I don't know.  Didn't get to watch Barba's swan song, but the Chicago Justice transplant bugs me.  There's something in his line delivery that makes it clipped and annoying at the same time.  At least Kylie Bunbury was solid (oh what Pitch could have been.)  

[WendyCR72]

13 minutes ago, dttruman said:

Question: Can Stone fire or suspend (at the beginning) Cassidy? I thought only the police review board can do that.

I think it is a police board. But then, reality left the franchise a long, long, long time ago.

[Diana Berry]

Since the sun rises and sets on Noah, I'm surprised that Liv would risk criminal charges, possibly going to jail, possibly losing custody of her child, and ruining her career for that dude.  It did not seem reasonable.

 

So far , I'm liking Stone and the actor that portrays him ( never watched the other show he was on).

[balmz]

cassidy calling olivia out and saying what we have all been saying, the great olivia benson was awesome, that alone gets the episode a prefect score 

 

 

in all seriousness the episode was ok, the holiday detective was annoying, also brian should have made it very clear it wasn't about race, it was the fact that the man was a child rapist

[ChristiKRN]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I actually liked Stone so far.  I hope that he can maintain his professionalism, ie not turn into Barba of the last 1 1/2 seasons.  I think that his eyes were opened as to how SVU can roll when it suits them.  If Cassidy was just some unknown male suspect, there would be no benefit of the doubt from Benson.  

Personal highlights for me in the episode were when Cassidy called out Benson in the bar for her almightiness and Rollins for her hypocrisy.  

[SuzieQ]

27 minutes ago, balmz said:

cassidy calling olivia out and saying what we have all been saying, the great olivia benson was awesome, that alone gets the episode a prefect score 

 

 

11 minutes ago, ChristiKRN said:

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I actually liked Stone so far.  I hope that he can maintain his professionalism, ie not turn into Barba of the last 1 1/2 seasons.  I think that his eyes were opened as to how SVU can roll when it suits them.  If Cassidy was just some unknown male suspect, there would be no benefit of the doubt from Benson.  

Personal highlights for me in the episode were when Cassidy called out Benson in the bar for her almightiness and Rollins for her hypocrisy.  

Loved that Cassidy pointed out how hypocritical Benson and Rollins are, but besides that, it was pretty laughable.  Dean Winters used to be at least a passable actor but he was so bad in this episode.  Maybe doing Allstate commercials has really lowered the bar.  He made me laugh at all his serious scenes.  That ending with him calling Benson the love of his life was really comical.  Toss up who was worse in that scene, her or him.

I can't seem to stop watching but it has turned into a hate watch for me.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Did they do something to make Mayhem look older? He looked at lot rougher than I remember him looking before.

The love of his life? Oh come on. Does the Olivia propping ever end?

I'm liking Stone so far too but that could be because I was a big fan of Strike Back. At least PW isn't using an awful British accent here.

[Gigglepuff]

Fin: "You stick around long enough, you'll see." 

Stone: "What? That you're all criminals?" 

 

Boy, he catches on fast. 

[Xeliou66]

My main takeaway from that episode is that Peter Stone is exactly what SVU needs. He isn’t a spineless bitch who bows to Benson, and he will call people out on unethical behavior. I loved when he ripped into Benson and Cassidy, he doesn’t give a fuck about their feelings and doesn’t like inappropriate behavior from the detectives, I also loved when he called in Fin to take Cassidy to interrogation and then ordered Benson to call Holiday, it’s nice to see someone put the bitch in her place. 

When Benson asked Stone if he was going to prosecute everyone there, and Stone replied “If they keep killing people”, I jumped out of my seat and cheered! It’s about time someone called out SVU on all the bullshit they’ve been doing lately, and Stone did it. Some friction between Stone and SVU, especially Benson, is exactly what we need, Benson and “Rafa’s” relationship was unprofessional and nauseating, Barba had become a dickless puppet who when Benson said jump he said how high, it’s very refreshing to see an ADA with a pair of balls. 

Cassidy reached his all time stupidest tonight, and that’s certainly saying something, as it was pointed out, he does stupid shit all the time. What in the flying fuck was he thinking having a meltdown like that on the stand, he’s supposed to be a professional but he behaved like a Keystone Kop. I really wasn’t surprised with the reveal that Cassidy was molested at the end, it made sense for his character, I remember in the episode in season 1 when he transferred out he talked to Cragen about how difficult it was for him dealing with SVU cases and he’s always seemed extremely squeamish and uncomfortable about sex crimes, so it makes sense. But nothing excuses his tantrum in court, he should be fired, they had that piece of shit nailed and Cassidy’s mayhem in court let a pedophile out.

And yeah Stone does have the authority to suspend Cassidy, remember Cassidy is no longer a cop, he works for the DA and Stone is his superior, and he was right to chew him out and immediately suspend him. Ultimately the decision to fire him or not would come down to Jack McCoy, I’m sure Stone would have some input, but the decision would be McCoy’s and I hope Jack fires him. Speaking of Jack McCoy, I was glad he got mentioned and it was explained he had given Stone Barba’s job. 

Benson looked like a massive hypocrite once again, she’s routinely berated her investigators for doing the exact same thing she did tonight, she thinks she is above everyone else and the rules don’t apply her, her ego is massive and she treats the people under her like shit, she doesn’t care if she ruins their careers, she’s going to further her agenda regardless. She’s a terrible boss, Fin is so much more professional and should be in charge. At least Benson was much more respectful to Stone in this episode after treating him like dog shit in the last one.

Rollins is a hypocrite as well and it shows she hasn’t changed much from her previous sleazy self, but I did like when she told Cassidy to stop being a pussy. 

I was honestly glad Fin and Carisi didn’t get as much for once, because I was glad they didn’t get dragged in to Benson’s unethical behavior, they came out looking good as usual, and I loved that it was Fin’s observation that solved the case, it was nice to see his detective skills again, and I liked him and Carisi working together. I really hope they get more screen time in the future.

I thought the killer was going to be the mom’s boyfriend, it was strange how he got the one line in the scene and then left, I didn’t think it was going to be the older brother.

Detective Holiday did seem to have a stick up her ass and was bringing in race when race had nothing to do with the case, she could’ve been more respectful to Carisi and Rollins but I did like how she didn’t bow at SVU’s altar.

Good episode and a breath of fresh air, Peter Stone is exactly what this show needs and I was thrilled to see him ripping people for their unprofessional behavior, I’m hoping he stays this way and doesn’t get castrated by St Olivia. 

[LittleIggy]

It’s Mayhem! ?

[ForeverAlone]

Hmmm...my first impression of this episode was "too much yelling." It's like everybody was trying to drown out the other characters, and there didn't seem to be much of a need for it. Sure Cassidy is a hothead and has a tendency to shoot his mouth off, but if the ADA doesn't want to object to attacks on his credibility, why put him on the stand in the first place? I guess the implication is that Stone probably wouldn't have, but he inherited the case from Rafael and had no choice (so does that mean Cassidy worked for Rafael, since apparently he now works for Stone? That would have to be awkward). But in any case, the introduction of the homicide detective was a bit over the top as well. Just flat out and out hostility from everybody. Not exactly the best look from a show that often gets criticized for a dearth of characters that are PoC. 

Then of course Olivia gets drawn into this entire mess. It's a wonder she is able to keep her job, with all of her conflicts of interest. But everybody just wants to swear at how amazing she is. I was glad to see the tension between Olivia and Stone, because that was much needed after the writers botched Rafael over the past couple seasons by making them too close (basically pandering to a subset of the Barson fans. Here's hoping there isn't some loud shipping of Olivia and Stone, because that would probably be the death of his character and his professionalism). 

You know, it was probably a good thing we had a three week break from the departure of Rafael and this episode. If they were back to back, I think I would still be in full on mourning mode (though I was glad to see Raul flee the scene while he could), and it would make my head spin to watch Rafael tell Olivia one week that she has opened his heart and turned him into her, only to follow it up with Cassidy confessing to Olivia that she is his soulmate and the love of his life. Weird I tell you. 

I did like that one scene at the end between Cassidy and Stone, because people finally stopped yelling and it gave a little bit of character window into someone that is not Olivia (and jibes well with how Cassidy responded back in season 1 to the death of a boy in "Uncivilized." It didn't feel like a retcon that completely remade the character, but added in some shading. 

[wknt3]

The Good:
An ADA acting like a ADA, standing up to Benson and looking out for the case, regardless of how Benson feels. This is the single element of the episode that gives me the most hope for the future. Given that he's Chernuchin's pet project and looking at the past the show should be off the air before he becomes the squad's ally willing to bend the law however Liv wants to.
Good acting throughout the episode. They pulled off some shaky material quite well IMHO and even Mariska seemed a bit more restrained than usual. Of course there was some that was so over the top that we'd need Meloni and a time machine to bring us Ice and Mariska from 10 years ago in order to pull it off, but for the most part the cast elevated the script.
Carisi and Fin. They didn't get a lot to do, but what they got was pretty good. Some moments of humor and solid police work. And Fin as the voice of blunt honesty and team loyalty. If they had just managed to make his one on one with Stone about the job and not about how Liv saved him...
A COTW that we didn't know the perp, solved by good old fashioned police work. It was a refreshing change of pace.
It was good to see them acknowledging some of the hypocrisy that usually gets brushed under the rug. I know we've kind of reset Rollins and we need to ignore some of the stupid plot choices they made with her character, but yeah somebody needs to call her out when she starts moralizing. And it's nice to see some criticism of Benson this season even if it's usually minimized by having it delivered by characters who have credibility issues.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but they did actually did a good job with Benoah. It was integrated with the main plot and they didn't focus on it too much.

The Bad:
A shaky premise and some poor plot choices. As has already been said this is OTT even for Cassidy. And then the homicide detective dialing everything up to 11. And the retcon at the end. Although personally I suspect the real reason for Cassidy's behavior over the years is he's bipolar...
Yet again Benson gets away with unprofessional behavior. It's nice she was called out for it, but I want to see some consequences. I know - baby steps and all that, but still...

Overall this was OK/good. Another decent execution of a flawed idea. It reminds me of the transition from the peak years of SVU to the camp era, being grounded in something like reality, but still a little too out there and a little too much soap. If the solid COTW and the reset of Benson and the squad's relationship with the ADA are the template for moving forward it's a good plan, provided we can move her personal life even more into the background. I guess we just have to keep hoping.
 

Edited March 1, 2018 by wknt3
acc

[dttruman]

7 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

And yeah Stone does have the authority to suspend Cassidy, remember Cassidy is no longer a cop, he works for the DA and Stone is his superior, and he was right to chew him out and immediately suspend him. Ultimately the decision to fire him or not would come down to Jack McCoy, I’m sure Stone would have some input, but the decision would be McCoy’s and I hope Jack fires him. Speaking of Jack McCoy, I was glad he got mentioned and it was explained he had given Stone Barba’s job. 

Thanks for the info, but that makes me wonder even more why the D.A.'s office would take him on as an investigator considering his past. Wouldn't you want someone beyond reproach otherwise every defense attorney would be using this strategy to get an acquittal? I was a little disappointed in Stone for not objecting to some of the statements made by the defense attorney concerning race.

[dttruman]

1 hour ago, wknt3 said:

COTW

Forgive me for my ignorance, but what does this mean? I tried to look it up, but there were 34 definitions or meanings.

[MaryHedwig]

Case Of The Week.

Edited March 1, 2018 by MaryHedwig

[HunterHunted]

2 hours ago, wknt3 said:

An ADA acting like a ADA

Excluding when Cassidy and Stone were tanking the initial case, the thing is that no one is that unprepared for trial. This show is stupid.

Edited March 1, 2018 by HunterHunted

[sockii]

10 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

My main takeaway from that episode is that Peter Stone is exactly what SVU needs. He isn’t a spineless bitch who bows to Benson, and he will call people out on unethical behavior. I loved when he ripped into Benson and Cassidy, he doesn’t give a fuck about their feelings and doesn’t like inappropriate behavior from the detectives, I also loved when he called in Fin to take Cassidy to interrogation and then ordered Benson to call Holiday, it’s nice to see someone put the bitch in her place. 

When Benson asked Stone if he was going to prosecute everyone there, and Stone replied “If they keep killing people”, I jumped out of my seat and cheered! It’s about time someone called out SVU on all the bullshit they’ve been doing lately, and Stone did it. Some friction between Stone and SVU, especially Benson, is exactly what we need, Benson and “Rafa’s” relationship was unprofessional and nauseating, Barba had become a dickless puppet who when Benson said jump he said how high, it’s very refreshing to see an ADA with a pair of balls. 

Cassidy reached his all time stupidest tonight, and that’s certainly saying something, as it was pointed out, he does stupid shit all the time. What in the flying fuck was he thinking having a meltdown like that on the stand, he’s supposed to be a professional but he behaved like a Keystone Kop. I really wasn’t surprised with the reveal that Cassidy was molested at the end, it made sense for his character, I remember in the episode in season 1 when he transferred out he talked to Cragen about how difficult it was for him dealing with SVU cases and he’s always seemed extremely squeamish and uncomfortable about sex crimes, so it makes sense. But nothing excuses his tantrum in court, he should be fired, they had that piece of shit nailed and Cassidy’s mayhem in court let a pedophile out.

And yeah Stone does have the authority to suspend Cassidy, remember Cassidy is no longer a cop, he works for the DA and Stone is his superior, and he was right to chew him out and immediately suspend him. Ultimately the decision to fire him or not would come down to Jack McCoy, I’m sure Stone would have some input, but the decision would be McCoy’s and I hope Jack fires him. Speaking of Jack McCoy, I was glad he got mentioned and it was explained he had given Stone Barba’s job. 

Benson looked like a massive hypocrite once again, she’s routinely berated her investigators for doing the exact same thing she did tonight, she thinks she is above everyone else and the rules don’t apply her, her ego is massive and she treats the people under her like shit, she doesn’t care if she ruins their careers, she’s going to further her agenda regardless. She’s a terrible boss, Fin is so much more professional and should be in charge. At least Benson was much more respectful to Stone in this episode after treating him like dog shit in the last one.

Rollins is a hypocrite as well and it shows she hasn’t changed much from her previous sleazy self, but I did like when she told Cassidy to stop being a pussy. 

I was honestly glad Fin and Carisi didn’t get as much for once, because I was glad they didn’t get dragged in to Benson’s unethical behavior, they came out looking good as usual, and I loved that it was Fin’s observation that solved the case, it was nice to see his detective skills again, and I liked him and Carisi working together. I really hope they get more screen time in the future.

I thought the killer was going to be the mom’s boyfriend, it was strange how he got the one line in the scene and then left, I didn’t think it was going to be the older brother.

Detective Holiday did seem to have a stick up her ass and was bringing in race when race had nothing to do with the case, she could’ve been more respectful to Carisi and Rollins but I did like how she didn’t bow at SVU’s altar.

Good episode and a breath of fresh air, Peter Stone is exactly what this show needs and I was thrilled to see him ripping people for their unprofessional behavior, I’m hoping he stays this way and doesn’t get castrated by St Olivia. 

I agree with most of what you said here. This was probably my favorite episode in a long, long time because it was so refreshing to see Stone and Cassidy calling out Benson for some of her crap. Stone is definitely the kind of ADA that SVU needs, and I just hope they don't "soften" him up too quickly and ruin his character the way they did with Barba.

Honestly, this show has always been strongest when there is a crew shake-up and someone new comes along to challenge the status quo. The sense of edginess that brings, the fresh perspective...and I also think the acting was a step up across the board compared to what we've been seeing for too long. I hope that too will continue for the rest of this season and that they weren't just bringing the "A game" to win over people skeptical about having a "new guy" come on board.

I do disagree on Holiday—I had no problems with her attitude and not wanting to see SVU "mess up" her case. Whether race actually had anything to do with the situation, it could certainly be seen that way to an outside point of view after what happened in court. Couple that with a dispute over whose case it was at this point and her response was not unwarranted, from my perspective. In fact I thought it brought a nice touch of complexity, reminded me a bit of how shows like Homicide LOTS and the original L&O used to deal with racial tension both within the police force and when dealing with the community.

[dttruman]

1 hour ago, MaryHedwig said:

Case Of The Week.

Aaaaah! Kind of like the case where the victim kills his molester with a golf club, except that the killer is unmasked at the beginning and the episode centers on a company selling toys containing lead.

Edited March 1, 2018 by dttruman

[RollinsRollins]

It is right can have our own opinions but they are always the same opinions, I have read all the topics of past episodes and always write's the exact same things.
Regarding the friendship Benson /Rollins leaving out the 13/14/15 season from 16 onwards not seem to me that Olivia treated Rollins like dirt, immediately after Patton their dynamics had improved so it does not seem so unlikely this friendship.
Refresh my memories , after Season 15 when Olivia treated Rollins like dirt?

personally my worst enemy  become my best friend so it does not seem so strange to me.
 

[Monkeybball]

I really liked this episode lol. I'm in the minority it seems.

[Xeliou66]

I liked the episode as well, I don’t think you are in the minority. I thought it was incredibly refreshing to have an ADA who’s professional and to see Benson get put in her place by Stone, and I liked seeing some of the characters hypocrisy called out and the case was interesting enough, I liked that it was Fin who solved it and I liked seeing Fin and Carisi work together. The best part was Stone and how he stood up to Benson and called people out on unethical behavior and didn’t back down, nice breath of fresh air. 

[MarylandGirl]

40 minutes ago, Monkeybball said:

I really liked this episode lol. I'm in the minority it seems.

I liked it, too. It really held my interest and had a few twists. Some good acting by the guest stars, too, especially the mother and the brother who ended up killing the doctor.

Though it occurs to me that both last episode and this one ended with someone (Barba, Cassidy) telling Olivia how much she meant to him. And Cassidy telling Olivia that she wouldn't have opened up to him, when he clearly didn't open up to her either (after what he told Stone) doesn't make a whole lot of sense. And where was Amanda's kid?

[Gigglepuff]

1 hour ago, Monkeybball said:

I really liked this episode lol. I'm in the minority it seems.

I liked it quite a bit and think it was one of the best episodes in a long time. There was some good acting and this time and even Mariska toned it down. It was nice to see the entire cast and the guests get some good time on screen, and it reminded me of the days when this show was truly an ensemble   

I didn't mind the Benoah scene, it was actually relevant to the plot without overwhelming the episode. Benson didn't bug me as much as she normally does, I was happy to see her get some flak for once, especially the scene where Stone told her she couldn't be in the interview room with Cassidy. I also liked that she backed off instead of doing barging in and doing whatever the hell she wanted. It was almost like she knew he was right! The plot had a few holes for sure, but overall I liked the case and the fact that it kept me wondering, plus, no preaching. 

Edited March 1, 2018 by Gigglepuff

[dttruman]

5 hours ago, RollinsRollins said:

4) I follow SVU forever and from the beginning is always focused on Benson (and Elliot) why you are now annoyed?

A lot of us really enjoyed the early years of SVU. The early episodes focused on the investigation of the crimes and that made them very interesting, IMO. I keep watching them, hoping that they would return to that type of format or at least show a couple of episodes like that. Myself and a few others have pointed out that the producers of SVU have decided to focus almost entirely on the Benson character, by removing numerous regular characters and lowering the quality of the story lines of the investigation in order spotlight Olivia Benson. Someone has also pointed out the the TV ratings have declined steadily over the years.

[wknt3]

3 hours ago, Monkeybball said:

I really liked this episode lol. I'm in the minority it seems.

 

3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I liked the episode as well, I don’t think you are in the minority. I thought it was incredibly refreshing to have an ADA who’s professional and to see Benson get put in her place by Stone, and I liked seeing some of the characters hypocrisy called out and the case was interesting enough, I liked that it was Fin who solved it and I liked seeing Fin and Carisi work together. The best part was Stone and how he stood up to Benson and called people out on unethical behavior and didn’t back down, nice breath of fresh air. 

 

2 hours ago, Gigglepuff said:

I liked it quite a bit and think it was one of the best episodes in a long time. There was some good acting and this time and even Mariska toned it down. It was nice to see the entire cast and the guests get some good time on screen, and it reminded me of the days when this show was truly an ensemble  

I have to agree that it was a good episode and that seems to be the consensus. I liked this one too. It was probably a 7-8/10. Heck any episode where I praise Mariska's acting and the Benoah scenes pretty much has to be a standout! I think that the reason opinion seems to be mixed is that there were a few glaring flaws that were central to the plot and that many of the best parts of this episode are part of a steady trend of improvement so to some extent they've already been discussed and praised (a stronger legal side, better police work, use of the entire squad). And I don't think I'm the only one who is slightly frustrated that there hasn't been a single episode that has truly lived up to it's potential. It's not a complete mess like last season, but all the parts are there to do something on the level of the great episodes of early Season 17. So I liked it, but with just a few tweaks I would have loved it and I want to love this show again.

[MarylandGirl]

1 hour ago, dttruman said:

A lot of us really enjoyed the early years of SVU. The early episodes focused on the investigation of the crimes and that made them very interesting, IMO. I keep watching them, hoping that they would return to that type of format or at least show a couple of episodes like that. Myself and a few others have pointed out that the producers of SVU have decided to focus almost entirely on the Benson character, by removing numerous regular characters and lowering the quality of the story lines of the investigation in order spotlight Olivia Benson. Someone has also pointed out the the TV ratings have declined steadily over the years.

Agreed--I think it's really missing something by no longer having Warner (or any other ME) or Huang (or some other psychiatrist). Watching old eps, I see how important of a role they play.

[Kel Varnsen]

21 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

And yeah Stone does have the authority to suspend Cassidy, remember Cassidy is no longer a cop, he works for the DA and Stone is his superior, and he was right to chew him out and immediately suspend him. Ultimately the decision to fire him or not would come down to Jack McCoy, I’m sure Stone would have some input, but the decision would be McCoy’s and I hope Jack fires him.

Would it come down to McCoy though? If it did that would surprise me since some quick googling tells me that around 1,200 people work for the Manhattan DA's office. Would the elected District Attorney be consulted and have to make a decision on all staffing related issues?

[Xeliou66]

19 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Would it come down to McCoy though? If it did that would surprise me since some quick googling tells me that around 1,200 people work for the Manhattan DA's office. Would the elected District Attorney be consulted and have to make a decision on all staffing related issues?

Yeah it would ultimately come down to him about whether to fire someone, since he is the head of the office I’m pretty sure he would have the final say or whether or not to fire an investigator. 

[shapeshifter]

On February 28, 2018 at 9:36 PM, balmz said:

also brian should have made it very clear it wasn't about race, it was the fact that the man was a child rapist

Ah, but that would have required Brian to "bare [his] soul," and he wasn't about to do that with anyone just yet.

 

8 hours ago, Gigglepuff said:

The plot had a few holes for sure,

The one plothole that bugged me was that neither the mom nor SVU in all the months leading up to the courtroom scene had ever suspected that the older brother had to have been molested by his pediatrician too. I thought they did a great job of rehabbing Cassidy's character into the lives of the squad without it seeming like a retcon or otherwise inconsistent.

 

At the beginning they flashed the names of two writers on the screen that did not seem familiar to me. Maybe that's why the script was overall better than what we've seen as of late.

[CelticBlackCat]

I disagreed with Benson allowing Cassidy to hide out in her apartment for a couple of days.  She should have told him to go to a motel and they could talk by phone.  Noah doesn't need to see guys coming and going whatever the situation.  If Saint Olivia is the Mother of All Mothers of the Year, then she should have worried more about her son instead of ex-bf Mayhem.  Also, where was Amanda's daughter?  Amanda is available at a moment's notice to take over babysitting duties for Benson, but who took care of Jesse?

Cassidy declared that Olivia was the love of his life?  Oh, please.

[dttruman]

3 hours ago, CelticBlackCat said:

I disagreed with Benson allowing Cassidy to hide out in her apartment for a couple of days.  She should have told him to go to a motel and they could talk by phone.  Noah doesn't need to see guys coming and going whatever the situation.

Do you think there will be a soap opera episode in the (maybe near) future where Benson's custody for Noah maybe challenged again. They will use this situation to show she is unfit because she harbored a murder suspect?

[TV Diva Queen]

13 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Would it come down to McCoy though? If it did that would surprise me since some quick googling tells me that around 1,200 people work for the Manhattan DA's office. Would the elected District Attorney be consulted and have to make a decision on all staffing related issues?

God I hope not.  The Division Head or Bureau Chief would be responsible.  I work for the my state's Attorney General and she does not get involved in hiring and or firing (unless they're in her immediate Executive Office or have a straight reporting line to her on the Org Chart), and we have less employees than the Manhattan DA office.  

[Xeliou66]

Interesting, so then I guess Stone could fire Cassidy without any input from McCoy. Makes sense, although I figure the guy in charge of the whole office could get rid of or keep anyone he wanted, but McCoy has a lot of his plate so I guess he wouldn’t be involved closely in whether to keep or fire an investigator. No matter if it’s Stone or McCoy doing the firing, Cassidy deserves to get fired.

[CelticBlackCat]

12 hours ago, dttruman said:

Do you think there will be a soap opera episode in the (maybe near) future where Benson's custody for Noah maybe challenged again. They will use this situation to show she is unfit because she harbored a murder suspect?

Good thought.  The irony of it being that Cassidy was involved in the child protective services investigation (he denies he started it but I don't believe him) and this review of Benson's fitness to care for the child would be brought on by her bad judgement and violation of the law, i.e., harboring a murder suspect, of none other than Mayhem himself!

[wknt3]

I'm pretty sure in real life, Stone could not fire or suspend Cassidy of his own accord, since the investigators are part of a separate unit of the DA's office than the individual trial bureaus and work with, not for ADAs. I know that the NYC borough DAs have a Chief Investigator and supervisors who would make the call about suspensions/termination in accord with civil service procedures. If anyone is going to fire Cassidy it should be Supervising DA Investigator John Munch who then tells Lt. Benson that it is unfortunate, but that is what happens when an investigator lets their emotions take over and that sometimes having command responsibilities means making tough calls. And then the rest of the episode is him going our for a drink with Fin...

[dttruman]

1 hour ago, CelticBlackCat said:

Cassidy was involved in the child protective services investigation (he denies he started it but I don't believe him)

I think I am on the same track with you here. Do you think he started that investigation because she would then run to him for comfort and support or did he do it out of some kind of revenge? I think this, because he is another one professing his love for Benson directly, unlike Barba who was indirect with his. Will Fin be the next one to tell Benson he loves her?

[CelticBlackCat]

I don't know why Cassidy came out of the woodwork and appeared at Saint O's door at night to "warn" her about the upcoming investigation.  I remember thinking he had a malicious look in his eyes and on his face when telling her that.  That's why I think he started the ball rolling, but why could just be revenge because she dropped him and moved on.  Him professing his love for Benson in this episode to me was to cover up his real feelings and intentions because she accused him of putting her through that mess.

[dttruman]

1 hour ago, wknt3 said:

I know that the NYC borough DAs have a Chief Investigator and supervisors who would make the call about suspensions/termination in accord with civil service procedures. If anyone is going to fire Cassidy it should be Supervising DA Investigator

Since you and others know more of this than I do, I will ask the same question I did before. Would the D.A.'s office hire a guy like this who carries a lot of baggage? Any defense attorney would call into question Cassidy's honesty and integrity, thereby easily creating reasonable doubt for his  (or her) client.

[UNOSEZ]

Was happy with the change of pace... Stone who was boring as hell on Chicago law is doing a good job here just not sucking up to the unit... I enjoyed set. Holiday but I'm wondering if this was a Paula Patton situation where she was here and gone in one episode or if its more like Michael beach where she may pop  up again.. Because the team needs some youth and someone who isn't a Benson sycophant.. But I know the actress just signed on for some ABC show so who knows 

[QueenMab]

The simple answer to your questions about whether or not anybody ( Cassidy, Rollins, Benson, even Cragen) would be hired  or kept on with NYPD or the DA's office is no. This show makes it look like both agencies have no problem with drunks, gambling addicts in hock for thousands to very bad people, or cops who have been repeatedly traumatized ( their fault IMO) working cases and keeping their ranks. The truth is they do. Rollins, even Cragen, would have been suspended until they cleaned up their acts, and then they would get a review and if given a chance, would have to go through a "probationary period" to see if they were suitable to continue in their jobs. NOBODY gets to just slide past their wrongdoing, even with the NYPD.....except on this show. Nobody in SVU would have been trusted to investigate fleas on a dog after the crap they've gotten themselves into. JUDGEMENT. An important word. All of them have showed very poor judgement in their decisions and actions. Neither NYPD or the DA's office are very popular and their poor judgement is constantly being questioned as recent news events have shown. ACLU, Project Innocence, and countless defense attorneys would have torn apart every case this show has had for the past seven or so years, because of their poor judgement and questionable actions. That all the wrong doing has been forgiven or tolerated and let skate with no real consequences proves....this show is a soap opera. They work for an NYPD and DA's office that only exists in Fantasyland.

[ChristiKRN]

I thought the episode was one of the better episodes of the past 2 season; there was actually some investigating going on!  It was good to see Fin pick up on the lead that led to catching the true killer but couldn't someone other than Benson have put the final piece of the puzzle together with the fidget spinner?  By the way, who brings a fidget spinner to a murder?

I was not inclined to like Stone because I loved Barba (well, before Benson neutered him), but was pleasantly surprised by how he handled Benson and company.  I really enjoyed his scenes; sensitive with victims and families but hard on SVU's rogue methods.   Hope he can maintain his objectivity and personal distance; it was refreshing to see.  Haha-how long  do you think it will be before fans of the show "ship" him with someone?

Cassidy losing it on the stand was beyond ridiculous; he's not a newbie, so it should not have shocked him to be baited by a defense attorney.  Heck, the lawyer barely had to expend any energy to get Cassidy to lose it.  And, for God's sake, why would he think it was  a good idea to go visit the pediatrician at night? I LOVED when he called out Benson and Rollins, esp Rollins.  I guess Rollins thinks that she's beyond reproach now that she is Benson's BFF.

I couldn't help but think that Dodds Sr is somewhere in the background, keeping a running tally of all of Benson's bad judgement calls, poor leadership skills, refusal to listen to her superiors and refusal to abide by the law.  He's going to lower the boom at some point; it's just a mater of when, not if. 

[dttruman]

1 hour ago, QueenMab said:

They work for an NYPD and DA's office that only exists in Fantasyland.

This Flaw also follows the use of a fictional school where all the rapes, murders, cheating, gambling and assaults occur, Hudson University. If all this happened at a real (or even a made up)  place of higher learning, the university would have zero enrollment.  I don't know why they don't create more fictional universities. I just think this is sloppy story telling on their part.

[dttruman]

14 minutes ago, ChristiKRN said:

I couldn't help but think that Dodds Sr is somewhere in the background, keeping a running tally of all of Benson's bad judgement calls, poor leadership skills, refusal to listen to her superiors and refusal to abide by the law.  He's going to lower the boom at some point; it's just a mater of when, not if. 

That is a tough one to figure out. On various occasions he gives her a supportive pep-talk and other times he wants to nail her for his son's death. Your guess is as good as mine.

Do you think it is because of the different executive producers who take over, they also want to move the major plot lines around too? Dodd Sr. wants revenge in one season and in another he almost wants to be her best friend.

Edited March 3, 2018 by dttruman

[ChristiKRN]

5 minutes ago, dttruman said:

That is a tough one to figure out. On various occasions he gives her a supportive pep-talk and other times he wants to nail her for his son's death. Your guess is as good as mine.

Do you think it is because of the different executive producers who take over, they also want to move the major plot lines around too? Dodd Sr. wants revenge in one season and in another he almost wants to be her best friend.

I very well think that is part of the issue as well as different writers.  There has been some consistency issues over the years; for example, the difference between Warren Leight's vision of Barba was very different from the last 2 EPs.  I ultimately think he has not forgiven her for his son's death based on some comments that he had made to her, and  he will use whatever means or tactics  necessary, including buddying up to her,  to get his revenge.  

[Xeliou66]

Yeah the different writers can mix up the characters. I can never tell if Dodds likes Benson or not, it seems to change, but I think if he wanted Benson gone it would’ve been much more obvious by now as he could’ve done a lot more to try to push her out than he has, but they will always give Benson some great trial to go through just to make her look even more saintly, so they might make Dodds into a villain just because he’s one of the only characters who will criticize St Olivia.

Barba definitely changed after season 17, he became a weak little bitch who’s only goal was to please Benson, Barba was completely ruined by his weird relationship with St Olivia. Also, I think Carisi has sort of lost his characterization to a degree, he now seems to change frequently based on what political view the writers want him to spew, and his behavior in Intent was just incredibly OOC and made him look like a petty douchebag, fortunately that hasn’t been seen since. 

[WineCheeseChocolat]

I LOLed a little that while she may be “the love of his life,” that after knowing him for almost 20 years, St Benson, The Victim Whisperer, didn’t figure out the Cassidy had been molested as a kid but Stone figured it out in what, a month?

I thought I’d hate seeing Cassidy back again, but I actually liked the arc. It pulled together all of what made Cassidy seem “off” from S1 onward, with the immaturity, inappropriate reactions, recklessness, etc. His move from undercover to the DA’s office still makes no sense though.

i wish Fin would’ve put on his leadership hat and ripped Benson a new one instead of defending her. 

The new ADA is promising.

Edited March 4, 2018 by WineCheeseChocolat

[WineCheeseChocolat]

Quote

On 3/1/2018 at 12:18 PM, RollinsRollins said:

Regarding the friendship Benson /Rollins leaving out the 13/14/15 season from 16 onwards not seem to me that Olivia treated Rollins like dirt, immediately after Patton their dynamics had improved so it does not seem so unlikely this friendship.
Refresh my memories , after Season 15 when Olivia treated Rollins like dirt?
 

 

She was pretty bitchy to Rollins in the episode where mini Dodds leaked the video and she thought Rollins did it but they’ve bonded lots over momming so their friendship doesn’t feel forced.

I gotta say, I never thought Benson treated Rollins badly. She seemed indifferent to her at the start cuz she was pissy about having to work with anyone Not Elliott, but she was absolutely right to call Rollins out during her S15 shenanigans.

Edited March 3, 2018 by WineCheeseChocolat