S13.E13: Devil's Bargain

[catrox14]

7 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

forgive me, i found this episode boring as all hell but ,was that Richard Speight as Gabriel? The hair threw me.

Yes, it was.

[Morrigan2575]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

Yes, it was.

Thanks. I thought it kind of was then I said nah this guy looks too young LOL. I thought they just found someone that looked like him. ?

[trudysmom]

This was bad, just bad.  I thought Danneel looked lovely, but her voice was weird.  I like Lucifer in short bursts, but not enough to carry a whole episode.  He wasn't funny enough to keep around for laughs, sympathetic enough to make me care what happened, or evil enough to scare me.  His squeezing the breath out of Sam and Dean he was just a mean bully, hurting for hurt's sake, knowing that was about all he could do.  Sad.  I hope when they come back in March it's with something lighter, a moment here or there to bring a smile to the guy's faces.  I'm tired of them looking worried and constipated. 

[catrox14]

58 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Maybe since the keeper of the Empty woke up, some others woke up and he kicked them out, too.  Then, Lucifer won't have to make more angels.

That is related to one of my specs that when Jack woke up Cas he woke up the others and that's why Empty!Cas would want to come to Earth and would be interested in the AU shenanigans.

[BoxManLocke]

46 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I'm so confused with the Cas stuff. Misha is playing Cas so oddly this season for me. There's too much smirking on his end. So when Amodeus appeared briefly as Cas, I was like "oh, so Amodeus has been Cas this whole time and our Cas is somewhere else." But....apparently not? Maybe it's just me? 

 

He barely gets any screentime yet they sometimes want to act as if the character has evolved psychologically. Misha has to do that with about 4 minutes every five episodes, and with his evil doppelganger running around.

 

I wouldn't know how to portray my character either in that situation.

[SueB]

6 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

forgive me, i found this episode boring as all hell but ,was that Richard Speight as Gabriel? The hair threw me.

I guessed Speight from the shaving people video BECAUSE of the hair.  His mouth was sewn shut.  Gross.  

The Good: 
- TFW. And their cards are on the table. No secrets.  I'm so happy about that.
- Donatello reading the tablet. I hope this goes well.
- Well, I would have never thought they'd support Lucifer, but their WINGS.  That was a good bribe.  I hope Duomo (?) gets stabbed in her dismissive face. First dissing a "lesser" angel and now bending the knee for Lucifer.
- At least they wanted to kill Ketch.
- I LIKE Cas' sassy attitude.
- Gabriel!  I don't care what McPlotonium I have to swallow.  I wanted him back.  But he needs to get rescued and get his sass on.

The Bad:
- Lucifer has too central of a story. He wasn't awful (I mean, of course he's AWFUL). His lines were reasonably funny and I was never worried they were going for redemption so that was good.
- Ketch is alive and smarming.
- 82 storylines, must be a B-L episode.

The Ugly:
- Sexy scene w/ LUCIFER and Sister Jo.  Just, nope.  Skin crawling nope. 

Don't get me wrong, Daneel sells the sexy.  But Lucifer is so nope.  

On Sister Jo: well, she's interesting.  Not happy that she's enabled Lucifer but she's got a few layers to her. The 'low-level functionary' finding her place on earth.  Kind of having a bit of a human addiction thing going.  

Bottom Line: More set-up than payoff but Team Free Will is back together in the bunker and Gabriel lives.  I'm actually hoping the angel storyline GOES some where.  It seems like they are down to the weasels who survived.  What they need is someone with a sense of humor ... what they NEED is Gabriel.  

[BoxManLocke]

The angels are supposedly going extinct yet Lucifer finds two of them within walking distance in a few hours.

 

What a lucky guy !

[dfsutter]

Why does SPN recycle women's names?  Amelia 3 times, Jo twice, Jamie twice, Charlie twice, and those are just the ones I remember.  It's not a huge deal, I guess, but it pisses me off that there's now a second Jo.

[ZennyKenny]

So was this the backdoor pilot for the spin-off show, Wayward Brothers, featuring Dean and Sam Winchester?

[bethy]

3 minutes ago, ZennyKenny said:

So was this the backdoor pilot for the spin-off show, Wayward Brothers, featuring Dean and Sam Winchester?

I think if it was, we'd've gotten to see more of Dean and Sam. You know, to introduce us to the characters.

[BoxManLocke]

2 minutes ago, ZennyKenny said:

So was this the backdoor pilot for the spin-off show, Wayward Brothers, featuring Dean and Sam Winchester?

You seem to be confused, this was the backdoor pilot for "A Match Made In Heaven", the new Freeform sitcom about a washed-up old musician with illusions of grandeur and his secretly ambitious secretary wife who must come to terms with their newfound celebrity after they've been made king and queen by aliens who came from space to bore us all to death.

[ZennyKenny]

27 minutes ago, SueB said:

The Ugly:
- Sexy scene w/ LUCIFER and Sister Jo.  Just, nope.  Skin crawling nope. 

Don't get me wrong, Daneel sells the sexy.  But Lucifer is so nope.  

Ok so it wasn't just me! What was it about that scene that was so uncomfortable? I thought maybe it was they were trying to turn the cutting into something sensual, but the whole thing was just so icky to me. But I couldn't put my finger on why.

[bethy]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

I'm so confused with the Cas stuff. Misha is playing Cas so oddly this season for me. There's too much smirking on his end. So when Amodeus appeared briefly as Cas, I was like "oh, so Amodeus has been Cas this whole time and our Cas is somewhere else." But....apparently not? Maybe it's just me? 

Not just you. If this character is actually Cas and not EmptyCas then I cannot figure out what Misha is doing. The smirking is over the top and so odd. And I had the exact same thoughts when it was Asmodeus. 

[catrox14]

6 minutes ago, bethy said:

I think if it was, we'd've gotten to see more of Dean and Sam. You know, to introduce us to the characters.

I legit laughed at this

[ahrtee]

I know I miss a lot of things lately, but how did they know that the angel tablet had a recipe for opening the rift?  I don't think they mentioned *where* Kevin got the spell (I just rewatched the short clip in spoilers, and all Cas said was "Kevin opened the rift using Lucifer's grace," but didn't say *how* he knew how to do it.)  But the first thing Sam says on hearing that Kevin created a rift was, "They have an angel tablet?"   That seems like a pretty big leap to me. 

20 minutes ago, dfsutter said:

Why does SPN recycle women's names?  Amelia 3 times, Jo twice, Jamie twice, Charlie twice, and those are just the ones I remember.  It's not a huge deal, I guess, but it pisses me off that there's now a second Jo.

They recycle a lot of names.  Supernatural Wiki has a list of characters: http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/index.php?title=Category:Characters and, just as an example, there are 5 Amandas, 7 Pete/Petey/Peters, and even (who knew?) 2 Gavins. :)  (They only list two Amelias, though...) 

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, ZennyKenny said:

Ok so it wasn't just me! What was it about that scene that was so uncomfortable? I thought maybe it was they were trying to turn the cutting into something sensual, but the whole thing was just so icky to me. But I couldn't put my finger on why.

It was intended to be sexual/sensual/squicky. I mean these are the writers who have zero problem with Lucifer committing actual rape, so I'm sure they wanted it to seem "hot" and "edgy". 

2 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

I know I miss a lot of things lately, but how did they know that the angel tablet had a recipe for opening the rift?  I don't think they mentioned *where* Kevin got the spell (I just rewatched the short clip in spoilers, and all Cas said was "Kevin opened the rift using Lucifer's grace," but didn't say *how* he knew how to do it.)  But the first thing Sam says on hearing that Kevin created a rift was, "They have an angel tablet?"   That seems like a pretty big leap to me

I bet it was in last week's episode along with Castiel escaping Lucifer and ending up in the woods....(this is a reference to the producer's preview in the spoiler thread.

36 minutes ago, SueB said:

he Ugly:
- Sexy scene w/ LUCIFER and Sister Jo.  Just, nope.  Skin crawling nope. 

Don't get me wrong, Daneel sells the sexy.  But Lucifer is so nope. 

Heh, now you know how I felt throughout the Dean/Amara crap.

[AwesomO4000]

Too. Much. Stuff.***

*** Where stuff = plot, exposition, characters, you name it.

Also poor Gabriel. Though I guess he might consider it just deserts? Still poor Gabriel.

[Myrelle]

Poor Danneel-stuck in  a Nepotism Duo script.

Now she knows how her hubby feels.

This episode was Awful just as most of their episodes are.

Someone's Lucifer fetish is ruining this show fast.

Edited February 9, 2018 by Myrelle

[flyinghigh]

3 hours ago, bethy said:

I feel like maybe they mistakenly believe that I care about Lucifer or Sister Jo or Amodeas or Ketch. I really, really don't.

Someone needs to inform the writers. And the directors, And the producers. And actors. And the cameramen. ...........Too many people. I suppose that is why this info too will be lost. And we will get another episode about angels and Lucifer.

Actually I do feel they have problems listening to us!!

This episode was ..... I don't know ..... about how important angels are???? Or how much the viewers like Lucifer and his brand of humour???? It was definitely something to do with angel story. But didn't that story end in season six or seven and then dragged in nine??? 

I am sure it was about something. My brain really hurts to think about it.

[flyinghigh]

2 hours ago, BoxManLocke said:

You seem to be confused, this was the backdoor pilot for "A Match Made In Heaven", the new Freeform sitcom about a washed-up old musician with illusions of grandeur and his secretly ambitious secretary wife who must come to terms with their newfound celebrity after they've been made king and queen by aliens who came from space to bore us all to death.

Agree!! 

+100000000 times 

No wonder I love SPN so much!! It can still amaze us with some sooooo unpredictable stuff. Or something???? I am sure I am capable of intelligent thoughts . Sometimes. Maybe.

[Jediknight]

DeVoe took over Becky, and Quentin is going down a seriously disturbing and dark path, but to close the week, Gabriel's back.  Finally, he's back.  How get the mouth open, and become the Gabriel we all know and love.

Are we sure that Daneel Ackles isn't a Panabaker.  She looks like one.

[auntvi]

Compared with every thing else that was wrong with the episode, there's one detail B-L got wrong that really irritates me. I guess it's supposed to be humorous - Lucifer reads the hotel room Bible and comments on all the things it got wrong. Cute. Except that Lucifer shouldn't have been able to hold onto the Bible. In ep. 12.08 Cass has the pregnant Kelly Kline put her hand on the Bible and it burns. If being pregnant with Lucifer's child is enough to burn it, then surely Lucifer himself would cause the Bible to go up in flames! Best thing is that B-L also wrote that episode! People have speculated that B-L don't bother to read other writers' episodes. Apparently they can't even remember their own episodes!

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, Jediknight said:

DeVoe took over Becky, and Quentin is going down a seriously disturbing and dark path, but to close the week, Gabriel's back.  Finally, he's back.  How get the mouth open, and become the Gabriel we all know and love.

Are we sure that Daneel Ackles isn't a Panabaker.  She looks like one.

Oh My Gods.. ? ?

[Whodunnit]

Oh Gosh, wouldn't it be nice if they used a keyword to let the other know that they have been kidnapped, or made sure to test each other by asking a question with false information like, I dunno, "Hey, Cass, do you remember that time Bobby's dog Ringo peed on Sam's leg?"

I seem to recall that they used to take those kinds of  precautions back in season 1. Sigh.

Edited February 9, 2018 by Whodunnit

[Katy M]

8 hours ago, SueB said:

- At least they wanted to kill Ketch.

Wanting to do it counts for nothing if they don't at least attempt to do it.  Ketch is just a human.  He's not going to be extra help. And, why, oh why, would they trust him to bring info from Asmo, instead of thinking the info is actually going to run the other way.  These guys are smarter than this.

 

8 hours ago, SueB said:

- Lucifer has too central of a story. He wasn't awful (I mean, of course he's AWFUL). His lines were reasonably funny and I was never worried they were going for redemption so that was good.

Yes, I'm glad Lucifer is bad.  But, in other aspects, what they were doing to him last night was way annoying.

[companionenvy]

I liked Sister Jo, in that she was slightly more intriguing than most baddies. The idea of someone who was a paper-pusher in heaven feeling liberated by the fall is a good one. Unfortunately, she exists in another iteration of the Heaven's Politics storyline, which has consistently been one of the weakest on the show.

I think SPN can accommodate multiple storylines. Plenty of shows do it, even shows with a clear lead or leads. But those stories have to be interesting, not endless repetitions of the same dynamics, mostly involving characters we don't care about. 

Opening up an alternative worlds should have been energizing for an aging show, giving the writers the opportunity to play with all kinds of "what Ifs" and introduce us to meaningfully and interestingly different versions of characters. Instead, it has played out in just about the laziest way possibly. The extent of development in the primary AU verse has been, essentially "The Apocalypse Happened." We get another alt-world that is just a generic monsterland. Bobby gets a cameo, but could practically have been any other hunter. Kevin Tran shows up, and again, it is five minutes where his characterization is basically "perpetual caffine high." We meet alt Michael, but as we never really knew actual Michael all that well, he, too, is just another megalomaniac. 

Compare all of this to What is and What Should Never Be, where the writers took great pains to imagine where these characters might be under these different circumstances. Or even the one where Sam and Dean are corporate drones. Or "The End." Those episodes worked because they actually gave a damn about characterization. 

Imagine if Mary and now Jack were teamed up with an alt!Cas closer to the heavenly warrior version we first met, and we got to see that Cas's journey toward Free Will. Or imagine if we met an alt!Gabriel who had taken a different path from ours and, rather than escaping into his Trickster persona, was leading an earnest rebellion against the forces of Heaven, with the help of some familiar faces, like Balthazar or Charlie. Imagine if Sam and Dean wound up in that world for more than a hot minute, and we actually had a storyline set there. Or, alternatively, imagine if when Sam and Dean weren't on screen, we were getting something more than endless villain monologues, like versions of characters we cared about dealing with a different and interesting set of circumstances. 

Honestly, I've liked most of the individual episodes this season well enough. This one, like so may B-L episodes, was overstuffed with plot and uninterested in character. But it also clarified for me the larger problem of just how boring a set-up we're now left with, and the missed opportunities it took to leave us there. No matter how many interesting avenues open up, it seems like the show can't help returning to another installment in the celestial soap opera. 

Maybe Gabriel will shake things up, but given the precedent, I'm not holding my breath.

[DittyDotDot]

WOW, that was just plain bad, but oddly exceeded my expectations since I set them so very low for this one.

First, the whole grace vampire thing makes no sense. Eventually, the grace is going to go bad and make Lucifer weak again. Seems like a really pointless thing to do. And, since grace is replenish-able and Lucifer was never on empty, then why isn't his replenishing, while the lacky angel's grace was replenishing in a matter of minutes? What a crock!

Second, while I've always held out hope that Gabriel survived, but after the season of God and his angry sister it really doesn't make sense that Gabriel did survive. While I personally hold little interest in Michael, it would've made more sense to get Micheal out of the cage instead of this Gabriel mess. Although, then they would've had to deal with the issue of Adam and finding a suitable vessel for him, so... .

Third, Sam and Dean, don't let the manipulative psychopath monologue and make his case. You shoot him in the head, burn his body and bury the ashes in concrete just for good measure. He will never be helpful and all you're going to have to show for it is a bunch of regrets. Come on, you boys are better than this!

Oh, and the angels put Lucifer on the throne in Heaven? Sure. Whatever. You know, I really don't care if Heaven gets fixed--I actually think it's in a better state now than back when we met the angels in S4--but if anyone gets to fix Heaven, it should be Cass. Not that I think Lucifer can actually make more angels and/or that more angels will fix Heaven.

Anyhoo, typical Horrible Duo fare: over-packed nonsense.  I did, however, enjoy Cass's attitude quite a bit. Would've preferred he just stab Ketch in the face, but laughed at him basically being bored with the conversation. 

[belbar]

10 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

So many characters and plots...Sam and Dean are being crowded out of their own show.

This so much.

This is not their show anymore. It used to be their journey, their story. Now it's not. You may like the show or not, but it's just a different game IMO

[Commando Cody]

Generally, my thoughts on Ketch are, "I can't believe they brought that wretched character back".

My first thought was it was Adam/Michael locked up. Gabriel never came to mind - because he's dead dead. It must be some sort of new zombie/angel thing.  Or like others stated, sent back from the big empty. I guess if Cas can do it, other angels can as well. 

When Lucifer was looking through the Bible I wondered why it wasn't burning. Maybe it's his lack of grace that makes him mostly human. Still he is the devil. 

Otherwise, there wasn't much to this episode. I'm going with Erica Cerra is playing a new character and has nothing to do with the character back in season six in The Man Who Knew Too Much. 

I am aware I am one of the few who likes the character of Lucifer.  However, I got nothing out of the Lucifer hanging out with the angel angle. I would like to see the angels at full power again. 

Lucifer ruling heaven seemed like a logical choice for him. Sister Jo is enterprising though. I can see her trying to take over. She's already sure she can run heaven. 

Osmodeus or whatever his name is. When Lucifer said he was his weakest creation. I'm sure that was the writers commentary. Because as far as villains go, he is the lamest. He is almost as disinteresting as Beverly Barlowe on Eureka. 

This episode was a big nothing.  

[bozodegama]

Seriously, if your going to bring Gabriel back, why have him beaten up so badly and his mouth sewn open so he's almost beyond recognition.  . I know i was staring at the screen trying to make out who it was.  I had to wait for the end of the episode to see it was Richard Speight jr.  So either there's going to be some retcon where Gabriel somehow faked his death or he woke up in the empty and made it back to earth.  If it's au Gabriel and he''s not our Gabriel, that would just suck.  I mean, it's not that much fun seeing au Bobby not knowing our Boys.  Do we really need another iconic character we know not recognizing the Winchesters and Cass?  

[Commando Cody]

I did find amusing that when Lucifer found Sister Jo, she was standing in front of a large poster of the road. 

[Pondlass1]

Jensen looked so bloodshot-eyed dog tired.  And what is going on with Misha?  Were they fooling with him so much he couldn't get it together for a single scene? His expressions were all over the place.  Are audiences supposed to be thinking he's not proper Castiel?

Poor Danneel.  Not the greatest actress in the world, but what a dreadful plot to dump on her.  And the quantities of grace seem to change from episode to episode. Sister Jo has quite a lot to give it seems.  And suddenly it's all sensual to be drained by a smelly Luci.

And KFC guy and the chicken wings!!  Really???!!!  I haven't squirmed so much since the Glee episode (ok I know it's a favourite, but... oh bloody hell I'm annoyed ).

All those baddies, all that talking, and now Richard Speight.  I thought he had another show?   

The only bright spot - someone mentioned Dean's green plaid shirt.  It was nice, but I LOVED the dark blue denim he wore at the beginning.  Dean's been shopping (now that would've been entertaining)

I see the squee squad on twitter are raving about everything. And Andrew & Co are sucking it all up. Grrrrrr

[Aeryn13]

How can even the angels be so stupid? They let Lucifer in and agreed to follow him when he promised he could defeat Amara. Even though, logically, anyone had to know that he couldn`t defeat a being with the power level of God. Now, he promised another god-level feat. And they believe him, again. Why should he be able to create angels? Just because he saw it done? That doesn`t mean he can recreate thhe process. 

Gabriel had such a nice closure. An honorable, even heroic death. But nope, now we`re retconning it via newly introduced McGuffin weapon. Give me a break.

The Sister Jo/Anael character wasn`t bad and she certainly had Lucifer`s number. 

Asmodeus is just so hammy and annoying. Ketch feels shoe-horned in as well. 

Of the three of them, Dean, Sam and Cas, Cas had the only semi-good scene with putting Ketch to sleep. Dean and Sam were superflouus and pointless, not to mention needed to be saved once again. 

The episode is a hot mess of jumbled storylines and villains and no rhyme or reason. Half the Season is over and it is incredibly pointless. 

That said, at least the episode wasn`t really offensive or anything. In that regard, it was harmless so I consider it in the "okay, shrug" column. 

[gonzosgirrl]

So we're supposed to believe that a faith healer is curing disfigurements with glowing angel grace, for money, in the middle of the city - and it's not news? Not even The Enquirer? Okaaaay.

[Wayward Son]

3 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

So we're supposed to believe that a faith healer is curing disfigurements with glowing angel grace, for money, in the middle of the city - and it's not news? Not even The Enquirer? Okaaaay.

In a world where the Winchester’s still ride the impala and don’t have every law enforcement on their tail constantly, aren’t constantly recognised on the news as serial killers and Cas isn’t recognised for his Godstiel phase that’s a pretty minor suspension of disbelief IMO.

[Katy M]

2 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

while the lacky angel's grace was replenishing in a matter of minutes? What a crock!

I don't think it was a matter of minutes.  I think more time was going by than they were showing. The rest of your point still stands.

 

2 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

Second, while I've always held out hope that Gabriel survived, but after the season of God and his angry sister it really doesn't make sense that Gabriel did survive. While I personally hold little interest in Michael, it would've made more sense to get Micheal out of the cage instead of this Gabriel mess. Although, then they would've had to deal with the issue of Adam and finding a suitable vessel for him, so... .

Actually, if the actor is available, Adam could just be his vessel.  But, then, of course, Sam and DEan would be concerned about getting angel out of vessel, when they aren't usually. And, we'd have to deal with the fact that Michael is supposed to be quivering mass of Jell-O.  But, yeah, I think I would have preferred that, too.  Heck, I would almost have preferred a never heard of before archangel.  Named Pete.

 

2 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

Third, Sam and Dean, don't let the manipulative psychopath monologue and make his case. You shoot him in the head, burn his body and bury the ashes in concrete just for good measure. He will never be helpful and all you're going to have to show for it is a bunch of regrets. Come on, you boys are better than this!

Yes, yes, yes, 1000 times yes.

 

13 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

So we're supposed to believe that a faith healer is curing disfigurements with glowing angel grace, for money, in the middle of the city - and it's not news? Not even The Enquirer? Okaaaay.

I don't really mind stuff like that.  If the show were to be completely realistic (barring, of course, the fact that monsters can and do exist), it would probably be really difficult to account for everything and get bogged down in the details.

[catrox14]

Buc k Lemming make me dislike this show and they make it worse not better.

They are weirdly obsessed with creepy sexual situations which are either overtly  or implicitly non con. I will give them "points" for making the non con extend to, from, and between genders so... yay? No, it's not yay its still disgusting and they need to stop or let the characters acknowledge this shit is creepy shit and they don't like it. But they never do. I gave Meredith a point in Regarding Dean, for the annoying waitress at least acknowledging that she was worried that Dean had been ruffied and she unintentionally took advantage of him.

I'm sorry but they bring nothing worthwhile to the show. They seem to think they are oh so clever with the writing because they cut up and throw away canon and introduce nonsensical "lore". They shove too much into all their episodes and I think they do this because they don't give a crap about Dean, Sam, and Cas as characters. I don't even know why TFW was in this episode. Dean and Sam did nothing meaningful except look stupid because they didn't know it was Asmodeus, especially Dean, and listen to villains instead of shooting them in the face. Cas was angel radio and that's it. Sister Jo just easily tossed them around like rag dolls including Cas just so she could be a fake badass.

This episode was the fucking Lucifer show and I'm  pissed that it took up precious space and not end up with him dead by TFW.

I do not care about this Anael character. I would have traded Duma to be the manipulative angel over Anael because I think the actress is much better than Danneel. She has presence which I don't think Danneel does, who is  competent but doesn't hold my attention.

There are fun, wild, well maintained rides with stories and themes that scare you and take you down unexpected paths and around scary corners that don't traumatize the rider for life and even make you want to ride again and try other rides.

And there are cheap, gross, smelly, poorly maintained rides with bolts missing that do nothing but spin you in circles, veer sideways and backwards for no reason, and have missing parts that throw the entire ride into an unpleasant death spiral.And even that toy at the end doesn't change that you are still nauseated and never want go on that ride again much less try another ride.

Guess which  ones are the Buck Lemming rides. Gods forbid they ever become showrunners with complete creative control.

21 hours ago, Commando Cody said:

I did find amusing that when Lucifer found Sister Jo, she was standing in front of a large poster of the road. 

I found that annoying and absurd . There is good meta and bad meta. that was bad meta. IMO.

Edited February 10, 2018 by catrox14

[gonzosgirrl]

2 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I don't really mind stuff like that.  If the show were to be completely realistic (barring, of course, the fact that monsters can and do exist), it would probably be really difficult to account for everything and get bogged down in the details.

But this is the kind of thing that the unwashed masses flock to. They don't care about two guys on the run from the law, or the face of a guy who claimed to be God five years ago. But somebody working bonafide miracles for cash in the middle of a city? That's going to get noticed. It's no big deal in and of itself, but on top of all the other ridiculousness happening, it's one more thing.

5 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I did find amusing that when Lucifer found Sister Jo, she was standing in front of a large poster of the road. 

 

5 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I found that annoying and absurd . There is good meta and bad meta. that was bad meta. IMO.

Help me out - I can't for the life of me recall what is amusing and/or meta about this.

[DittyDotDot]

27 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

In a world where the Winchester’s still ride the impala and don’t have every law enforcement on their tail constantly, aren’t constantly recognised on the news as serial killers and Cas isn’t recognised for his Godstiel phase that’s a pretty minor suspension of disbelief IMO.

Actually, I can accept that Sam and Dean aren't on law enforcement's radar. It stretched incredulity some, but they are supposed to be dead and regular people tend to accept that more than miraculously being alive. Plus, Sam and Dean are supposed to be con men and that's what con men do, make you believe the unbelievable. The Sister Jo thing, though, I could accept if she had been being careful like moving around and not healing too many people at once. But, just the number of people we saw her heal on-screen seems hard to believe that she hadn't drawn some attention of some sort. 

17 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I don't think it was a matter of minutes.  I think more time was going by than they were showing. The rest of your point still stands.

Well, a little hyperbole on my part, but it seemed incredulous that she replenished her grace multiple times in the span of, what, two days while Lucifer's grace hasn't replenished at all in the months since some of it was taken from him.

17 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Actually, if the actor is available, Adam could just be his vessel.  But, then, of course, Sam and DEan would be concerned about getting angel out of vessel, when they aren't usually. And, we'd have to deal with the fact that Michael is supposed to be quivering mass of Jell-O.  But, yeah, I think I would have preferred that, too.  Heck, I would almost have preferred a never heard of before archangel.  Named Pete.

Right, like I said, they'd have to deal with Adam and the tricky angel vessel thing. That's why I don't believe we'll ever see our universe Micheal ever again. He'll always be the archangel who lost his mind and is useless to them. I just think it's easier for them to just ignore him than deal with the mess they wrote themselves into.

But I like your idea that there was another unknown archangel out there and I like the name Pete! ;)

10 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Help me out - I can't for the life of me recall what is amusing and/or meta about this.

Wasn't it the same backdrop the high school girls used for their play in Fan Fiction? I'm not sure why they used it for Sister Jo. She doesn't strike me as an "on the road" sort of character, but what do I know.

Edited February 9, 2018 by DittyDotDot

[catrox14]

20 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

Poor Danneel.  Not the greatest actress in the world, but what a dreadful plot to dump on her.  And the quantities of grace seem to change from episode to episode. Sister Jo has quite a lot to give it seems.  And suddenly it's all sensual to be drained by a smelly Luci.

 

Why is it poor Danneel? They wrote it for her per  EW article which said they pitched this to her.  I highly doubt she didn't know this was how the role would go. She signed up for this.

Edited February 10, 2018 by catrox14

[catrox14]

14 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Help me out - I can't for the life of me recall what is amusing and/or meta about this.

It was the same backdrop used on the stage in Fan Fiction which was all about the boys life and now it's benind  this brand new character played by the actress who happens to be married to Jensen IRL. Thats why I think it was a bit if meta and kind of annoying.

[gonzosgirrl]

Ah okay, I didn't recognize it. I get it now.

[catrox14]

20 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

How can even the angels be so stupid? They let Lucifer in and agreed to follow him when he promised he could defeat Amara. Even though, logically, anyone had to know that he couldn`t defeat a being with the power level of God. Now, he promised another god-level feat. And they believe him, again. Why should he be able to create angels? Just because he saw it done? That doesn`t mean he can recreate thhe process. 

If he could give them back their wings why didn't he do it then? That would have been the carrot needed. Because they hadn't though of it yet or were planning to make this the Lucifer show over two years.

 I hate that they are turning this into Lucifer wanting to rule anything. He never wanted that. I guess he only wants it now to impress Jack? that's the onky reason I can see for it.

I will say that I did note that Dean was flustered when he learned Michael was coming from alternate world. He bristled. I liked that moment from Jensen. I wonder if he will contact Billie about this threat.

20 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Ah okay, I didn't recognize it. I get it now.

It looked a little different color wise but thamight ha e been the lighting.

Edited February 10, 2018 by catrox14

[Commando Cody]

32 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

1 hour ago, Commando Cody said:

I did find amusing that when Lucifer found Sister Jo, she was standing in front of a large poster of the road. 

I found that annoying and absurd . There is good meta and bad meta. that was bad meta. IMO.

Well, "amusing" wasn't really the word I was looking for. It was just more of an observation. I was trying to get the comment in before someone else posted - so it would merge with my post and I wouldn't have to edit, but I was too late. 

[Katy M]

40 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I hate that they are turning this into Lucifer wanting to rule anything. He never wanted that.

Well, what was the Apocalypse all about if he didn't want to rule over everything?  

[catrox14]

9 hours ago, Katy M said:

Well, what was the Apocalypse all about if he didn't want to rule over everything?  

His goal was to destroy humanity because he was cast into hell for not loving them as God commanded. I don't know why people think he wanted to rule humans. He wanted them dead. He still does which is why he decided to start breaking all of Daddys toys and making Dean and Sam watch.

He didn't care about ruling Hell either back in S5. He wanted humans wiped out. That's why he turned them into demons. To destroy God's new children.

Edited February 10, 2018 by catrox14

[Bobcatkitten]

I liked Sister Jo being an angel and using her business skills to align with Lucifer to take over heaven. At least they aren't trying to redeem Lucifer, which is a big no. A big no.

 

But that's all I can find from this episode I liked. I thought Cas had stabbed Lucifer but they started the show like it didn't even happen and made me think I have amnesia or something. I mean, what the fuck was that? Dean and Sam were useless in this episode. We get the return of yet ANOTHER FREAKING CHARACTER when so many are floating out there already with nonexistent storylines. I am a glass half full kinda girl and this season is making batty. It's crap. P.S. This might be the flu talking but really it's crap.

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

l. His goal was to destroy humanity because he was cast into hell for not loving them as God commanded. I don't know why people thi k he wanted to rule humans. He wanted them dead. He still does which is why he decided to start breaking all of Daddys toys and making Dean and Sam watch.

He did t care about ruling Hell either back in S5. He wanted humans wiped out. That's why he turned them into demons. To destroy God's new children.

What fun is it just to destroy and then be completely on your own, alone forever with nobody to lord it over.  I think he did want to rule over the angels. I'll agree he didn't care anything about Hell. Complete and utter disdain for demons and humans

 

24 minutes ago, scribe95 said:

But that's all I can find from this episode I liked. I thought Cas had stabbed Lucifer but they started the show like it didn't even happen and made me think I have amnesia or something. I mean, what the fuck was that?

I found that odd, too that they clearly showed him stabbing him at the end of last week's episode, and then they cut that part off of the "Previously" part.  Maybe we'll find out that Cas just wishes he had done that?  And is there a reason he was out in the woods alone?  If he did stab Lucifer, I can certainly see him, beating him to a pulp and leaving him on his own, but dragging him out into the woods seems like it's too time consuming and unnecessary.

[Wayward Son]

I’m convinced based on the preview with Dabb and Singer prior to this episode that the post production team majorly screwed up and cut out scenes they should not have. 

[DittyDotDot]

29 minutes ago, scribe95 said:

But that's all I can find from this episode I liked. I thought Cas had stabbed Lucifer but they started the show like it didn't even happen and made me think I have amnesia or something. I mean, what the fuck was that?

Wasn't there a flashback where he stabbed Lucifer and Lucifer stabbed Cass? My theory is that they were both injured enough to crawl away to lick their wounds, but not enough to be deadly to either of them.

1 minute ago, Wayward Son said:

I’m convinced based on the preview with Dabb and Singer prior to this episode that the post production team majorly screwed up and cut out scenes they should not have. 

I actually thought that when they were discussing the angel tablet. It was weird based on the information Cass gave Sam that he leapt to the conclusion that AU Micheal had an angel tablet. That felt totally out of the blue. But, the episode was over-packed--as is the Horrible Duo's want--so maybe they were over on time and had to do a bit of a hatchet job to some scenes? I have a hard time believing that Dabb didn't sign off on the final product and knew this happened though.