S13.E13: Devil's Bargain

[gonzosgirrl]

Dean, Castiel and Sam search for Lucifer who, meanwhile, strikes an unlikely deal with a local faith healer named Sister Jo. Asmodeus gets closer to finding Jack.

[catrox14]

[bethy]

I feel like maybe they mistakenly believe that I care about Lucifer or Sister Jo or Amodeas or Ketch. I really, really don't.

[bettername2come]

Gabriel!

That is all.

[gonzosgirrl]

Just now, bettername2come said:

Gabriel!

That is all.

Did anybody guess that after the Shaving People video?

There was just waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much talking in this episode. And Sister Jo is just another dick angel. And BuckLemming's disdain for canon knows no bounds.

[catrox14]

Gabriel. Who had Gabriel in the pool for which character was in the puffy shirt. I think that might have been my second choice. 

I'm sorry but this episode IMO was not good

[bozodegama]

Jeez it’s really becoming a total ensemble show.  No real plot, just throw things against the wall and see if they stick.  Sam, Dean and  ass are like minor players in the show now.  Glad to see Gabriel though.  I hope he’s our Gabriel.

[MysteryGuest]

So, Gabriel is back.  I'm guessing that means our Michael won't be showing up.  Not sure where they're going with the story this season. There were already too many players on the field, and now they've added a few more.

I thought Danneel did fine.  I didn't know what her relationship with Lucifer was going to be, but I didn't really expect this.  There certainly was a whole lot of Lucifer in this episode, a bit too much for my taste, frankly.  Since the angels seem just as evil as the demons, I have no idea what his plans are for Heaven.  I've honestly never understood why the angels have been portrayed as such assholes, but at least they're staying true to form.

An Archangel Blade?  Seriously?  I thought at first he might have gotten his hand on Michael's spear somehow, but just how many magic weapons are they going to pull out of nowhere?  And Asmodeus still makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up.  Pretty funny scene with him dipping into the bucket of chicken, though.  Colonel Sanders indeed.

As usual, I'll have to watch again without the damn commercials to get a true feel for the episode.  It seemed like a whole lot of nothing was going on, but I guess the point was just to continue to put all of the chess pieces in place.

[Katy M]

How does this episode annoy me? LEt me count the ways.

1. Gabriel is dead. REally dead. Killed by Lucifer dead. Chuck confirmed it. Sigh. I will remove a sigh if he turns out to be an AU Gabriel.

2. why wouldn't they just kill Ketch when Cas knocked him out. He was following the same leads they were. There was no reason to think he could be super helpful and he's Ketch. Sigh.

3. Just a nitpick, but Dean complaining that Ketch let Lucifer get away was ridiculous. On what planet did he think that was anywhere close to having him contained?

4. Why was Lucifer hungry. He had grace. He wasn't full on human.

5. Lucifer can make angels now? Really? Seriously? And he's giving them their wings back? I guess we're going full on angels and demons again. Sigh. sigh. Sigh. Sigh. And triple sigh.

I do think I like Sister Jo, though.

[bozodegama]

2 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Gabriel. Who had Gabriel in the pool for which character was in the puffy shirt. I think that might have been my second choice. 

I'm sorry but this episode IMO was not good

Yeah Catrox, you called it.  Good job

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, MysteryGuest said:

thought at first he might have gotten his hand on Michael's spear somehow, but just how many magic weapons are they going to pull out of nowhere?

That's actually not out of nowhere.  The archangels have always had archangel blades.  GAbriel's was even called that specifically by what's-her-name in Hammer of the Gods.

[gonzosgirrl]

The Archangel blade isn't new. But goddamnit, Gabriel is dead. Burned wings, killed by Lucifer with and archangel blade dead.

[DeeDee79]

2 minutes ago, Katy M said:

That's actually not out of nowhere.  The archangels have always had archangel blades.  GAbriel's was even called that specifically by what's-her-name in Hammer of the Gods.

Kali the Destroyer! 

[Katy M]

Just now, DeeDee79 said:

Kali the Destroyer! 

thanks.  My mind went blank.  Old age, I think. Or the cold has frozen it.  One or the other.

[ZennyKenny]

"Hi I'm Lucifer and I just took an angel's grace but suddenly I'm hungry and cold because it's opposite day haha!"

[DeeDee79]

1 minute ago, Katy M said:

thanks.  My mind went blank.  Old age, I think. Or the cold has frozen it.  One or the other.

Happens to the best of us :)

[Katy M]

2 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

The Archangel blade isn't new. But goddamnit, Gabriel is dead. Burned wings, killed by Lucifer with and archangel blade dead.

Maybe since the keeper of the Empty woke up, some others woke up and he kicked them out, too.  Then, Lucifer won't have to make more angels.

[MysteryGuest]

I guess I haven't been paying attention.  I don't remember anything about an archangel blade.  Seems pretty damned convenient to me, but what do I know.  Gabriel doesn't exactly look to be in fighting form right now.

[bozodegama]

In Hammer of the Gods the archangel blade Lucifer used looked just like an angel blade, not something totally different.  Seemed like a retcon to me.

[Casseiopeia]

[BoxManLocke]

That was utter trash. BuckLeming just keep repeatedly crapping all over the show in their pathetic attempt to reenact season 5.

 

I am so, so sick of the constant jerking off over how awesome Lucifer is. He's not. He's a shadow of his former self with some sort of lame sitcom layer. He adds absolutely nothing good.

I am so, so sick of the UNEASY ALLIANCES™ with characters who should be killed on sight because the brothers are terrible at their jobs in certain episodes.

I am so, so sick of the terrible characters popping in every BuckLeming episode. Ketch is lame. Donatello AKA "Mr walking plot device" is lame. Asmodeus AKA "Mr I've got every single power you could imagine except an interesting personality" is lame. Sister Jo AKA "Rowena only younger and an angel" is lame.

I am so, so sick of the sex references (I KNEW they would put these on Danneel), the plot holes and contrivances (everything Lucifer-related basically), the epileptic pacing, the clichéd as hell writing, the absence of focus on Sam/Dean and Castiel when they'd just been reunited, so sick of angels who just won't gtfo, so sick of fucking everything.

But hey, we got a cool cliffhanger guys ! A characters that had been CONFIRMED DEAD BY GOD is back, because death has absolutely no meaning on this show ! Huzzah ?

The only part of the plot that's not creatively bankrupt right now is Mary/Jack and they are barely using these characters.

I welcome the sweet release of hiatus with open arms.

[MysteryGuest]

So we're going to get some epic Archangel battle with Michael, Lucifer and Gabriel?  I'm just so not interested in this.  What I wouldn't give for a nice ghost story right about now.

3 minutes ago, BoxManLocke said:

Asmodeus AKA "Mr I've got every single power you could imagine except an interesting personality"

Ok...this made me laugh out loud. 

[catrox14]

18 minutes ago, Katy M said:

1. Gabriel is dead. REally dead. Killed by Lucifer dead. Chuck confirmed it. Sigh. I will remove a sigh if he turns out to be an AU Gabriel.

This is my guess. Although Chuck said he could have rebuilt Gabriel with enough time. So this should be Not!Gabriel IMO although the archangel blade is not a special thing. It's been the blade that looks like angel blades but as I recall they had their own didn't they. And that's how Lucifer killed Gabriel was with his own angel blade.  But sure Gabriel didn't really die, Asmodeus just happened to know where he was. RME

Sorry, but I'm not feeling this Sister Jo character at all. She's just blah. It's not the acting FTR.  Meh.  But what I laughed at was she's all I KNOW HOW TO FIX HEAVEN BUT NO ONE WILL LISTEN TO ME WAHHHHH whatever RME 

OMG I hate these writers.

Dean apologizes for not picking up that it was Cas.  Sure.

I hate these writers so much

9 minutes ago, bozodegama said:

In Hammer of the Gods the archangel blade Lucifer used looked just like an angel blade, not something totally different.  Seemed like a retcon to me.

I literally just posted this same thing. That was how I understood it. This is definitely a retcon

Edited February 9, 2018 by catrox14

[Lady Calypso]

1 minute ago, ZennyKenny said:

"Hi I'm Lucifer and I just took an angel's grace but suddenly I'm hungry and cold because it's opposite day haha!"

I thought at first that maybe, because he took Cupid's grace, that it was affecting him as Lucifer hates love. Nope, apparently not.

I did like Sister Jo. I thought Daneel did a great job with what she was given. It's just a real shame I couldn't give two craps about her weird thing with Lucifer. Lucifer is the worst. Oh no, he's having the feelz about his son that hopefully will never care for him and only considers him the sperm donor. I know I'm going to be disappointed when Jack is inevitably forced to love Lucifer because the show wants it to be. 

I'm so confused with the Cas stuff. Misha is playing Cas so oddly this season for me. There's too much smirking on his end. So when Amodeus appeared briefly as Cas, I was like "oh, so Amodeus has been Cas this whole time and our Cas is somewhere else." But....apparently not? Maybe it's just me? 

Yeah, as much as I love Gabriel and love Richard's portrayal of him, and as much as I assumed they'd bring back Gabriel somehow since they have the actor on board, he is supposed to be dead. So what, are we going to learn that there's now a way to bring back dead angels and not just Jack resurrecting Cas? Seriously?

That's all I got for now. 

[catrox14]

9 minutes ago, BoxManLocke said:

I am so, so sick of the sex references (I KNEW they would put these on Danneel), the plot holes and contrivances (everything Lucifer-related basically), the epileptic pacing, the clichéd as hell writing, the absence of focus on Sam/Dean and Castiel when they'd just been reunited, so sick of angels who just won't gtfo, so sick of fucking everything.

 Danneel has played sexpots before so I'm not sure why it's an issue.

[Katy M]

I guess I wasn't paying that close of attention. Did it look different?  It just looked like an angel blade to me.  But, I have very bad visual memory.

[MysteryGuest]

I actually feel sort of bad for Danneel.  I thought she was good, and the character wasn't uninteresting.  But to be paired with Lucifer in such a way doesn't really do it for me.  I was thinking her character would be a bit more ambiguous...not good, but not necessarily bad, either.  I suppose she could still go either way.  I'm not so sure she's so much enamored with Lucifer as she is a survivor.  

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, MysteryGuest said:

I'm not so sure she's so much enamored with Lucifer as she is a survivor.  

That's what I'm getting. She said she's a "businesswoman."  She's just out for whatever it is she wants. Control of Heaven probably.  She'll rule by Lucifr's side until she can doublecross him and rule for herself.

I forgot.  I had another complaint.  Cas said he would be able to tell if Lucifer is lying.  What on earth is he basing that assessment on.  Cas is the most naïve and trusting character on the show.  He's always being manipulated and hoodwinked.  OK, maybe tied with Sam. But, still.   

[BoxManLocke]

4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

 Danneel has played sexpots before so I'm not sure why it's an issue.

 

Because it's tacky as hell, clichéd and keeps showing BuckLeming have no respect for female characters. They show off their mediocre kinks on the show all the time when no other writer does because they aren't terrible writers. Danneel may have portrayed this kind of character in other stuff, I wish she wouldn't have been subjected to this crap IN HER FIRST EPISODE.

Edited February 9, 2018 by BoxManLocke

[catrox14]

22 minutes ago, bozodegama said:

Yeah Catrox, you called it.  Good job

I honestly don't remember if I formally said it or it, but it was in my mind and I sort of dismissed. Michael!Adam was my first choice. I remembered thinking that Dick had been on set to direct and I thought well who else would the hide and make such a big deal of other than Michael. And I landed on Gabriel. I'd have to go back and look at my posts. LOL

[Pondlass1]

So many characters and plots...Sam and Dean are being crowded out of their own show.

[MysteryGuest]

16 minutes ago, bozodegama said:

In Hammer of the Gods the archangel blade Lucifer used looked just like an angel blade, not something totally different.  Seemed like a retcon to me.

That was my point.  We've never seen a blade like this one before, at least I never have.  So if they've used one before, it was never shown to be anything special, physically.  This blade looked completely different.

[catrox14]

7 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I guess I wasn't paying that close of attention. Did it look different?  It just looked like an angel blade to me.  But, I have very bad visual memory.

It looked completely different. It was shorter, it was gold I think kind of twisty design. Much fancier than the angel blades.

3 minutes ago, BoxManLocke said:

 

Because it's tacky as hell, clichéd and keeps showing BuckLeming have no respect for female characters. They show off their mediocre kinks on the show all the time when no other writer does because they aren't terrible writers. Danneel may have portrayed this kind of character in other stuff, I wish she wouldn't have been subjected to this crap IN HER FIRST EPISODE.

 

If she didn't want to do it, she could have said no. I'm not trying to be an asshole here, but Danneel was kind of in the driver's seat since they wrote something specifcally for her. 

I doubt she had no idea of the sexual nature of the character when they wrote it for her. That's all I'm saying.

Edited February 9, 2018 by catrox14

[Lemuria]

27 minutes ago, Katy M said:

3. Just a nitpick, but Dean complaining that Ketch let Lucifer get away was ridiculous. On what planet did he think that was anywhere close to having him contained?

I'm probably wrong--hey, I wouldn't want to wreck my perfect record.  lol--but it struck me that Dean, who really, really, really doesn't like or trusts Ketch, suspected that Ketch intentionally "missed."

 

1 minute ago, MysteryGuest said:

That was my point.  We've never seen a blade like this one before, at least I never have.  So if they've used one before, it was never shown to be anything special, physically.  This blade looked completely different.

Definitely.  That's why I was surprised when Assy said it was any kind of an angel blade, much less an archangel blade.

[Katy M]

Just now, catrox14 said:

It looked completely different. It was shorter, it was gold I think kind of twisty design. Much fancier than the angel blades.

I won't consider it a retcon if it's an AU blade.  AU blades could look different.  I'm not so much worried about the blade as I am that I'm getting sick of the dead coming back with no good explanation.  And, no, annoying Empty Keeper so much that he tosses you out does not meet my definition of "good."   Nor does God's sister doing Dean a favor.  Mostly because it seems odd that she brought back Mary without John.  I can't see it being that much more trouble for her.  I don't even think the next reaper to die after Death becomes DEath makes a heck of a lot of sense, but I can roll with that one better.

[MysteryGuest]

8 minutes ago, Katy M said:

That's what I'm getting. She said she's a "businesswoman."  She's just out for whatever it is she wants. Control of Heaven probably.  She'll rule by Lucifr's side until she can doublecross him and rule for herself.

I'm not sure that ruling Heaven is in her plans, but staying alive is certainly her motivation.  Lucifer would have just drained her grace and killed her like he did the cupid, but she talked him into a deal instead.  She lied about just how strong Lucifer was, so she obviously had an interest in keeping him alive, as well, but to just what end, I have no idea.  

Edited February 9, 2018 by MysteryGuest

[bozodegama]

Plus Gabriel showed us the fake one in Hammer of The Gods.  It was a normal looking angel blade.  He said he made it out of a can of diet orange slice.  (Amazing what you can remember if you watched the episode 20 times). I did think Daneels character was pretty good.  She’s really very beautiful too.  Looks so much better than when she was younger on One tree hill.  Good for her.

[BoxManLocke]

3 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

 

If she didn't want to do it, she could have said no. I'm not trying to be an asshole here, but Danneel was kind of in the driver's seat since they wrote something specifcally for her. 

I get what you're saying and I'm not trying to portray this thing as if she was degraded as an actress or something.

It's just that the moment we learned Danneel would be on the show and who would write the episode, I had called that she'd get some sexy crap. And I hate to be right because the show deserves better than this.

Female characters deserve better than SPN. Thank God for Wayward Sisters.

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, MysteryGuest said:

I'm not sure that ruling Heaven is in her plans, but staying alive is certainly her motivation.  Lucifer would have just drained her grace and killed her like he did the cupid, but she talked him into a deal instead.  She liked about just how strong Lucifer was, so she obviously had an interest in keeping him alive, as well, but to just what end, I have no idea.  

Well, I don't know. But, she definitely wants something beyond staying alive.  Because she could have betrayed Lucifer to TFW.  Unless she figured they would fail. But, still, I think she's smart enough that if she just wanted to live she would have let him have one hit and then figured out something to make her escapae.

[bozodegama]

1 minute ago, Katy M said:

Well, I don't know. But, she definitely wants something beyond staying alive.  Because she could have betrayed Lucifer to TFW.  Unless she figured they would fail. But, still, I think she's smart enough that if she just wanted to live she would have let him have one hit and then figured out something to make her escapae.

I definitely agree with this.  She’s going to double cross Lucifer.  She seems too smart and ambitious to be his flunky. Anyway, Lucifer is only making angels so he can snack on them.  And since when do angels in heaven now to Lucifer.  That was really weird.

[catrox14]

36 minutes ago, Katy M said:

4. Why was Lucifer hungry. He had grace. He wasn't full on human.

5. Lucifer can make angels now? Really? Seriously? And he's giving them their wings back? I guess we're going full on angels and demons again. Sigh. sigh. Sigh. Sigh. And triple sigh.

4) Because they are creatively bankrupt and are stealing from Metatron and Castiel's previous SL
5) If he could give them their wings back why didn't he do that when he got out of Hell in the first place in s11. Why wouldn't he have made that offer before now? I legit LOL at that stupidity.

[MysteryGuest]

1 minute ago, Katy M said:

Well, I don't know. But, she definitely wants something beyond staying alive.  Because she could have betrayed Lucifer to TFW.  Unless she figured they would fail. But, still, I think she's smart enough that if she just wanted to live she would have let him have one hit and then figured out something to make her escapae.

He did seem to be feeding quite a bit, unless there was supposed to be a passage of time that I didn't notice.  I'm sure she does have an agenda, I'm just not sure what it is at this point.  She did say she had ideas about Heaven, so maybe she does want to run the show.  But she didn't seem particularly evil, just opportunistic.  Guess we'll find out.

[gonzosgirrl]

4 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Well, I don't know. But, she definitely wants something beyond staying alive.  Because she could have betrayed Lucifer to TFW.  Unless she figured they would fail. But, still, I think she's smart enough that if she just wanted to live she would have let him have one hit and then figured out something to make her escapae.

She must have something in mind because she chose to throw her lot in with Lucifer and make enemies of TFW. I liked her performance, but man I hoped for more than just another dick angel. Have they had any angels who weren't dicks (that weren't immediately killed for it) since hot-dog boy? Ugh. I just want them to close Heaven and Hell forever and get back to Supernatural.

[catrox14]

6 minutes ago, BoxManLocke said:

Female characters deserve better than SPN. Thank God for Wayward Sisters.

 

9 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I won't consider it a retcon if it's an AU blade.  AU blades could look different.  I'm not so much worried about the blade as I am that I'm getting sick of the dead coming back with no good explanation.  And, no, annoying Empty Keeper so much that he tosses you out does not meet my definition of "good."   Nor does God's sister doing Dean a favor.  Mostly because it seems odd that she brought back Mary without John.  I can't see it being that much more trouble for her.  I don't even think the next reaper to die after Death becomes DEath makes a heck of a lot of sense, but I can roll with that one better.

It can only be an AU blade if Asmodeus has a way into the AU or someone else does. So it's a good question but I didn't think it was implied that it was an AU angel blade. .

[ILoveReading]

My Observations

I wanted to like this because of Danneel.  But didn't because the episode was as dull as watching paint dry.  Way to much talking and not enough action.

I liked Sister Jo character but she's wasted being saddled with Lucifer.

The obvious "plot twist" of sister Jo being an angel.

Am I supposed to care becasue Lucifer is cold and hungry?  Because I don't.  Die Lucifer Die.

Since Sam, Dean and Cas were under the impression that Lucifer was weak, why didn't Dean stab him immediately.  Its one of the few times, I didn't see Dean.  I saw Jensen waiting for someone to yell action. 

Same thing with Ketch.  Why wasn't a bullet put into him immediately?

Someone should have told Jared to remember to act scared of Lucifer.  That's why that whole,Lucifer has a scary face didn't work for me.  It seems Sam is as over Lucifer as I am.  Like with Jensen, I saw Jared standing around wondering what he was supposed to do?

Other the Jared and Jensen are signed as leads what was the purpose of them being in the episode?  They had no outcome on the plot of it what so ever.

Sam and (especially) Dean continue to be extras this season.  (Not meant as Bitch/Jerk, simply and observation).

There are too many plots and characters now.  We don't need two more. 

They should change the opening credits, instead of script by  (insert name here), it should read, Copy and pasted from the original script by (insert name here).

The whole Lucifer thing just felt copy and pasted from when Cas was human.  Sister Jo feels like a copy and paste of Bella and Anna.

There was no need to bring Gabriel back.  His story is done.  It feels like pure fan service.  Death really has become a punchline on his show.  Please bring back Crowley.  Mark P for Mark S is not a fair trade.  (Did Lucifer Die).

So while Michael, Lucifer and Gabriel are having a bitchfest about who daddy loved more what are Sam and Dean going to be doing?

Once again despite both Sam and Dean being guilty its only Dean whose made to apologize.  This is why I don't find Sam particularly empathetic no matter what the show tries to sell.

Amodeus has more ham and cheese than an entire Deli. .

When they wrote that exposition scene of Cas summing up the season spoken outloud, how was it possible that the writers didn't shake their heads and say 'is this season as stupid as it sounds?"

A couple of things I did like.

I would like to see more of sister Jo. 

I want Dean to wear that green plaid shirt more often. 

No mopey Sam.  Hopefully now that they have a plan that plot point is done.

Jensen is that green plaid was the best part of the episode.

I like Ketch.  I'm probably the only one.  LOL. Since he's still alive more scenes with Dean please

Danneel shined, and I want to see more of Sister Jo.  (Just not with Lucifer.  Did Lucifer Die)

Dean still looks so tired and done.  Give my boy a hug.  Props to Jensen for trying to maintain consistency. 

Did I mention Dean's green plaid shirt.

I don't think I mentioned Dean's green plaid shirt.

[bozodegama]

4 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

She must have something in mind because she chose to throw her lot in with Lucifer and make enemies of TFW. I liked her performance, but man I hoped for more than just another dick angel. Have they had any angels who weren't dicks (that weren't immediately killed for it) since hot-dog boy? Ugh. I just want them to close Heaven and Hell forever and get back to Supernatural.

Yeah Hanna was pretty good.  She lasted awhile.   But yeah, angels, except Cass are totally d bags.  

[Katy M]

7 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

 

It can only be an AU blade if Asmodeus has a way into the AU or someone else does. So it's a good question but I didn't think it was implied that it was an AU angel blade. .

I meant if it was AU Gabriel, then presumably AU blade would come with it. I'm really trying to hold on to my hope that there is no just a ridiculous resurrection or retcon of him not dying.  Leave me my hope for just a little while.

 

12 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

He did seem to be feeding quite a bit, unless there was supposed to be a passage of time that I didn't notice.  I'm sure she does have an agenda, I'm just not sure what it is at this point.  She did say she had ideas about Heaven, so maybe she does want to run the show.  But she didn't seem particularly evil, just opportunistic.  Guess we'll find out.

I think there was a passage of time.  She said "every time" so I feel like this had been going on for a while.  Couple of weeks, maybe?  

[catrox14]

Just now, Katy M said:

I meant if it was AU Gabriel, then presumably AU blade would come with it. I'm really trying to hold on to my hope that there is no just a ridiculous resurrection or retcon of him not dying.  Leave me my hope for just a little while.

I'm sorry!

[Casseiopeia]

6 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

When they wrote that exposition scene of Cas summing up the season spoken outloud, how was it possible that the writers didn't shake their heads and say 'is this season as stupid as it sounds?"

When the first 5 minutes is Cas explaning to the Winchesters what happened during the first eight episodes (not counting Wayward four), you know you are going to have issues with plot points

[Morrigan2575]

forgive me, i found this episode boring as all hell but ,was that Richard Speight as Gabriel? The hair threw me.