S14.E10: Personal Jesus

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

A young boy is admitted to Grey Sloan Memorial and his case has a profound impact on the doctors. Meanwhile, April is faced with a surprising patient, and Jo continues to deal with her estranged husband.

Promo:

[Chas411]

We're back online at last :)

[Flynn]

I feel so bad for Matthew... He's a great guy that didn't deserve anything of what has happened to him. I'm wondering if April will go completely off the rails now. 

And how the drama with Paul ended... it was too easy to just kill him off! Disappointed with the writers here. But a good thing that they donated his organs, at least.

[Guest]

Quote

And how the drama with Paul ended... it was too easy to just kill him off! Disappointed with the writers here. But a good thing that they donated his organs, at least.

Maybe I misunderstood, but didn't Amelia say Paul might be brain dead.  Then they immediately jumped to deciding to donate his organs.  I kind of hope some relative of his shows up saying they pulled the plug prematurely.

[Laurie4H]

I didn’t care too much for the heavy handed  political issues.  Cops, religion etc....

[readster]

9 minutes ago, RogerDodger said:

Maybe I misunderstood, but didn't Amelia say Paul might be brain dead.  Then they immediately jumped to deciding to donate his organs.  I kind of hope some relative of his shows up saying they pulled the plug prematurely.

Amelia said that in an hour or two they would know if he was completely brain dead, but at that point it made the most sense. Something I also wonder with abusers is what really motivated them to become it in the first place. Sometimes it's ego, sometimes as we saw with Paul, he has real control and anger issues. Even his commitment to his health. Other times, he was treated in some way in the past. However, I do feel it was too easy to have it be a random drunk driver and have him die. After all the build up and stuff for years and that's how it ends. Of course he was screwed when he jumped up to attack the other woman and Merideth was right there. With a few doctors and nurses about 20 feet away. As for Mathew's wife dying, that was too much plus how Arizona was: "I was in an emergency surgery and she was fine when I left." I didn't blame April she did what she was suppose to do, now for Dr. Roy and the other woman who acted like a horndog and not knowing how a woman's body is suppose to work. That was too much, also Meredith talking about running out of the country, I mean come on. 

[llewis823]

Maybe April and Matt will reconcile with their two babies...

[readster]

3 minutes ago, Laurie4H said:

I didn’t care too much for the heavy handed  political issues.  Cops, religion etc....

Considering the cops and FBI on Grey's for the past 14 years have been depicted as complete idiots who won't shoot to kill a person who is mowing down people. But a 12 year old trying to open his window, no shoot him in the neck. Station 19 looks interesting for the spin off, but I'm glad Baily finally stopped being mad at Ben when she realized this could happen to Tuck.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Despite all the deaths that occurred in this episode, the saddest thing this week was Bailey and Ben having to have The Talk with Tuck.

I get that April is losing her faith and all that, but ugh, why that lame intern to hook up with? Realistically, I know the answer is because he was right there, but still. After hearing all the stupid things he said, no thanks.

My only regret about Paul's death is that Meredith wasn't recording on her phone when he was ranting at Jo and his fiancée. I totally get why she's upset that now she doesn't get to expose him for the monster that he was and he will die with everyone thinking that he was a nice guy.

Edited January 26, 2018 by ElectricBoogaloo

[jabbi]

I didn’t care for the way Paul’s story ended, either. Also, am I really expected to believe that Paul would haul off the rails in front of THE Meredith Grey? Isn’t he supposed to be a general surgeon as well? For someone who seems really concerned about his career, he sure doesn’t mind showing his a** in front of one of the most prestigious surgeons in the country right now. 

 

I really don’t like how everyone on this show still treats Kepner like an incompetent fool. She is written to be a good trauma surgeon, but everyone still acts like she’s an idiot. It’s annoying.

 

I cried at the end when Bailey and Ben had that talk with Tuck. That was the most powerful part of this episode IMO. The kid who played Tuck really did a great job in that scene, too. 

Edited January 26, 2018 by jabbi

[UNOSEZ]

Whew.. That was a tough one… April had a bad day indeed… And even before reading this I figged she was abt to spiral out.. She just looked burned out at the end if the epi.. As for the “talk”.. That’s pretty much how mine went.. I kept trying to say I’d be ok cuz we lived in a nice neighborhood and we knew police… But my moms was like.. Don’t ever think that.. We talked abt tone.. Abt even if my white friends were poppin off I should stay quiet with my hands in sight… All too real… And in a few years I have to have that talk with my nephew.. Smh

[Pallas]

35 minutes ago, jabbi said:

I cried at the end when Bailey and Ben had that talk with Tuck. That was the most powerful part of this episode IMO. The kid who played Tuck really did a great job in that scene, too. 

Agreed: I thought The Talk was a terrific scene, and the topic long overdue on Grey's.

I liked the collision of stories with real content, one seen through a long-simmering story around a series regular (domestic violence and Jo); one through the surprise sequel to a long-ago story (April, Matthew and his wife), and one through a patient-of-the-week (the unarmed pre-teen at home, and his family). And how all of these issues were presented through April's frame, which is not social but religious. Not inequality and injustice, but sin. 

ETA: In no way does a social or religious perspective need to contradict the other; the greatest leaders of human progress have combined the two. Just as April said herself, about the supposed science/religion dichotomy: "Both." But we haven't seen April address social questions, and this episode made the point that she hadn't taken the initiative in exploring Jackson's experience with him. 

Edited January 26, 2018 by Pallas

[ElectricBoogaloo]

For once, I didn't mind DeLuca's sister. I'm all for her telling a teenage boy that it's totally normal and healthy to masturbate. No need to cut your hand off, dude.

[anna0852]

I about broke down crying watching Bailey and Ben give Tuck The Talk. It must have just broken her heart to have to teach her son how to put his hands on his head and how to keep from getting shot. An incredibly powerful scene. And I absolutely hate that this is a reflection of reality in our society. The fact that parents have to have this kind of talk with their children is horrifying.

 

I thought it was very well done to do this through April's eyes. And showing her having hooked up with the intern at the end of the episode is probably the best way they could have chosen to truly show how much she was struggling with her faith. It's just so out of character for her that it is indicative of major problems. I'm starting to think she could really benefit from some intensive counseling. The last few years have just been a slugfest for her over and over again from losing Samuel to divorcing Jackson to a very traumatic C-section. April is most certainly no longer the perky, energetic and optimistic person that she was when we met her.

[Pallas]

2 hours ago, anna0852 said:

 

I thought it was very well done to do this through April's eyes.

As her day progressed -- that is, fell apart, as patient after patient was smote down -- April's responses changed. She went from an almost breezy frustration when telling the young fanatic that "When God made the world, he also made metaphors," to her increasing difficulty in just swatting back his earnest questions, even as she offered up some rote responses that had served her in the past. And how she silently took in another standard reaction -- "God doesn't give us more than we can handle, right?" -- as if she were hearing it for the first time. Or doubting it. Or finally perceiving a context, a larger motive at work within the stock phrase, and doubting that.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Pallas

[NeverLate]

I replayed Paul hitting himself on the bed, twice. It was for me a moment, abuser kills himself, bravo! 

Bailey and Ben, giving Tuck, ' the talk' heartbreaking. but sadly necessary, and it shouldn't be.

I thought this episode was done very well, seen through April's eyes, and how ones faith is tested..

[Laurie4H]

I thought the talk with Tuck was completely contrived for a political agenda.  As was the whole episode.  It wasn’t heartfelt.  

Edited January 26, 2018 by Laurie4H

[WhosThatGirl]

I’ve actually enjoyed the last two episodes a lot. This was a good episode. Kind of interesting to me though that these last two episodes that to me have been really good have like little of our title character Meredith.

This was a really good episode. I wasn’t bored and wishing the story to move forward like I feel like I’ve been in episodes lately. I don’t know. I just really liked it. 

[funnygirl]

Miranda and Ben having "the talk" with little Tuck was one of the most powerful and affecting moments this show has ever had. The reality of it is heart wrenching, and it's execution was beautifully done. 

I'm all for April's crisis of faith but I don't think sleeping with a random intern was necessary for whatever journey she's going on. Didn't care for that. 

Sister Deluca needs to STFU about orgasms and sex already. She shouldn't have even been in the episode, once again highlighting what a waste of time she is.   

The appearance of Matthew made me wonder: why isn't he part of the spin-off? Paramedics are first responders and work closely with firefighters. Including him would've been another tie to the flagship. 

Edited January 26, 2018 by funnygirl

[anna0852]

I think it was mentioned right after the wedding-that-wasn't, that Matthew had changed jobs. He's still a paramedic but wherever he's working out of does not routinely bring their patients to Grey Sloan. For obvious reasons he did not want to keep running into April.

[Lady Calypso]

That was a rough episode to watch, in terms of the race storyline. I felt really bad for Bailey and Ben to have to teach Tuck about his actions when confronting the police, That Talk should really never happen, and yet, it has to. What a powerful scene, especially for Grey's, to have. So much so that I didn't feel like it was a scene from Grey's. 

Jesse Williams also did a great job in this episode. It was clear the subject matter touched him, and it brought a different layer to Jackson. 

So, I guess that's one way to end Paul's story. Sure, it wasn't wrapped up in the way that I hoped, but it did wrap up better than it could have. I would have loved to see both Jo and Jenny to go after Paul in court, though. Either way, Matthew Morrison did a great job as Paul, in a way that'll probably affect how I watch him in his next role. 

Though, to be honest, I could have done with less Meredith in those scenes. I get why she was there and I think it was smart to have her there, but Paul losing his temper in front of her several times felt a little contrived. Plus, I was cringing at her advocating for Jo and Alex to run away to Canada. 

Also, so it was a drunk driver who hit Paul and not Jenny or Jo. Ok, then! At least they got to do some good with Paul at the end, even if he wasn't a good person. 

It did lean toward being an April episode, which surprised me. I didn't really expect the episode to turn that way, but it did. Sure, April is losing her faith now. I question her sleeping with random intern whose name I'll probably never remember. All I could think was that I wish hacker intern was around and not any of the other annoying interns that ended up in this episode instead. 

I didn't watch the Matthew saga, though I did catch a few clips last season when I was trying to catch up to some of what happened, but knowing about what a disaster their relationship ended up being by the end when April left him, I felt bad for Matthew to have to be around April so much. I bet it was hard, especially now that he lost his wife. 

[JTM]

32 minutes ago, Laurie4H said:

I thought the talk with Tuck was completely contrived for a political agenda.  As was the whole episode.  It wasn’t heartfelt.  

Although I can see where you're coming from -- in the sense that there's a whole 'ripped from the headlines' aspect to it -- I think what you're missing is this is and has been simply reality for a great many people for a very long time.

 

So, for example, if you didn't have the same reaction to the storyline where 'apparently delightful man is actually abusive', that's because you've come to recognize that as a thing that happens in reality and can therefore arise in a tv show at any time without carrying a specific political agenda (eg, #metoo). Which is great, because it does. 

 

But OUR experience and what WE recognize as happening in reality all the time and therefore toss-able into a tv show at any time, isn't necessarily the totality of that reality. So to dismiss something as having been added due to a political agenda is actually to deliberately discount its import as perhaps quite representative of the reality of a great many people. And therefore reasonably insert-able at any time. As reality.

 

The fact is, 'the talk' has been part of AA reality for centuries, in every generation. So to show it on a tv show is simply to show a piece of real AA life and parenting, comparable to showing any parents talking to their children about any other sort of vulnerability they have in relation to the world. It's just showing a piece of reality.

 

That makes it a pretty troubling impulse to immediately jump to deliberately discounting its import as being about a political agenda. Instead, why not allow its inclusion in the show to widen your understanding of what constitutes regular life for a great many people, if not for you specifically?

[LexieLily]

They kept saying how Paul is/was a big and successful doctor, and powerful. Since we learned that Jo was still legally his wife does this mean presumably she has scenes to look forward to of inheriting a great deal of money? 

[OtterMommy]

Ugh, I'm so conflicted about this episode.  There were things that I liked, things I hated, and things about which I still don't know how I feel.

First off, I loved Science Geek Maggie.  This is the sort of thing I liked about her--her adorkableness and her excitement about what she does.  I think it is interesting that she basically came on the show as a Cristina replacement because they are nothing like each other--except in this.  They both have great passion for what they do--at least Maggie did, before it became clear what direction the writers were going.

I cosign those of you who felt that Paul's story line was wrapped up too easily and quickly.  Of course, I think this was more along the lines of Vernoff trying to tie up a story line she didn't create.  Do I think it could have been done better?  Hell yeah.  Am I glad it's over?  Hell yeah.  Now we just have to wait for the next completely implausible and contradictory revelation from Jo's past. (as an aside, I did enjoy Meredith telling them they should go to Canada.  Not because I thought they should go to Canada, but because the dialogue was just spot on with that).

Jackson....ugh.  You know, I so could have gotten behind his speech at the end if he hadn't pissed me off so much earlier in the episode.  Dude, this is YOUR contest...that means YOU have to run it.  Not your step-dad, not your ex-wife...YOU!  And then to treat April as though it were his duty to do this for him? (Yes, I know that no one knows besides Bailey that he's behind this, but the audience knows, and that's something the writers should keep in mind).  I hope to all that is holy that he doesn't win this stupid thing.

So, April.  First off, that was some great acting from Sarah Drew and I was glad to see that she got an April-centric episode.  However, there were parts of it that were just...bad.  The kid trying to cut off his own hand because he masturbated.  Really?  If they wanted April to be confronted by a Devil's advocate, there were far better (and less ridiculous) ways to do it.  Also, this was April's really bad day and she got a lot of crap that she did not deserve (and where the hell was Owen?  Why was April the only person in the ER?), but it was hard to watch--and I do think that was the intention.  I think April confronting her faith is a story line with a surprisingly good amount of potential and I hope that they treat it with the care it deserves (since the site was down, I was nosing around twitter and instagram and April's crisis of faith seems to have really hit a nerve).

Then, the ending.  I've been saying for a while that April should double her sexual body count and she has, but Roy?? (Shudder).  On one hand, it makes sense--April's faith has always required her to live in a way where she didn't always behave the same way her peers did and, well, now she's "down to Earth" and one of them.  But, on the other hand...banging an intern?  Wow, that was...creative.  I don't think the show has ever done that before! (snort).  I wish they had come up with some way for April to make that fall that wasn't so...boring and typical.

[UNOSEZ]

9 minutes ago, JTM said:

Although I can see where you're coming from -- in the sense that there's a whole 'ripped from the headlines' aspect to it -- I think what you're missing is this is and has been simply reality for a great many people for a very long time.

 

So, for example, if you didn't have the same reaction to the storyline where 'apparently delightful man is actually abusive', that's because you've come to recognize that as a thing that happens in reality and can therefore arise in a tv show at any time without carrying a specific political agenda (eg, #metoo). Which is great, because it does. 

 

But OUR experience and what WE recognize as happening in reality all the time and therefore toss-able into a tv show at any time, isn't necessarily the totality of that reality. So to dismiss something as having been added due to a political agenda is actually to deliberately discount its import as perhaps quite representative of the reality of a great many people. And therefore reasonably insert-able at any time. As reality.

 

The fact is, 'the talk' has been part of AA reality for centuries, in every generation. So to show it on a tv show is simply to show a piece of real AA life and parenting, comparable to showing any parents talking to their children about any other sort of vulnerability they have in relation to the world. It's just showing a piece of reality.

 

That makes it a pretty troubling impulse to immediately jump to deliberately discounting its import as being about a political agenda. Instead, why not allow its inclusion in the show to widen your understanding of what constitutes regular life for a great many people, if not for you specifically?

In all seriousness... THANKS.. Eloquently put and 100% right sans any snark or vitriol...  Bravo

[UNOSEZ]

1 minute ago, OtterMommy said:

Jackson....ugh.  You know, I so could have gotten behind his speech at the end if he hadn't pissed me off so much earlier in the episode.  Dude, this is YOUR contest...that means YOU have to run it.  Not your step-dad, not your ex-wife...YOU!  And then to treat April as though it were his duty to do this for him? (Yes, I know that no one knows besides Bailey that he's behind this, but the audience knows, and that's something the writers should keep in mind).  I hope to all that is holy that he doesn't win this stupid thing.

I feel like you may be missing the point.. The entire reason Jackson Bankrolled this thing is so he can participate... He can't win a Harper Avery.. At least not without many claiming nepotism.. And as long as Bailey is the only other person who knows he can compete just as a regular doctor.. And no doctor worth their salt wants to Judge this thing as they are all wildly competitive.. And I think ur projecting if u think his attitude was ordering April to do it.. More like.. U got scammed into not competing and having to tell ur friends they lost I don't want any part of that.  At least how I saw it

[anna0852]

I didn't say it earlier because I wasn't really thinking about it but I really actually enjoyed the resolution to Jo's abusive husband. I loved how Jo seems so thrown by Meredith's reaction and her jokes about going to Canada. Alex is used to her of course but I don't think Jo has ever really seen the 'friend' side of Meredith and didn't really know how to respond. And I love that it was ultimately Paul's own hubris and ego that killed him. And I think that cuts to the core of what a dysfunctional personality he really was. A control freak who lost control and therefore revealed his real self. And I love watching Jo and Jenny bond. I'm actually hoping we see a bit more of Jenny. Paul being dead does not remove either of their traumas and it might be nice for Jo to spend some time with someone who truly understands what it was like.

[Guest]

Jackson's competing award to the Harper Avery is ridiculous. I remember when Harper Avery was depicted as a revered thing that was a once in a lifetime honor for the best of the best of the best.  Now they've portrayed Cristina competing for it as a resident, Meredith winning it, Jackson feeling life is unfair because he can't win it.  It's made it seem pretty common (though we're really supposed to think that Grey's characters are the best surgeons ever, but it isn't having that effect on me). 

[OtterMommy]

1 minute ago, UNOSEZ said:

I feel like you may be missing the point.. The entire reason Jackson Bankrolled this thing is so he can participate... He can't win a Harper Avery.. At least not without many claiming nepotism.. And as long as Bailey is the only other person who knows he can compete just as a regular doctor.. And no doctor worth their salt wants to Judge this thing as they are all wildly competitive.. And I think ur projecting if u think his attitude was ordering April to do it.. More like.. U got scammed into not competing and having to tell ur friends they lost I don't want any part of that.  At least how I saw it

No, I don't believe I'm missing the point. 

There is a large Fortune 500 company in my area.  I used to work for a utility that had an annual award that it would give to other local companies who made significant steps forward in a certain field.  Well, this big company could never win (I don't know if I can simplify this and have it make sense--basically, because it was so big and was worldwide, it's work in the area--which wasn't that great anyway and really could have improved--couldn't compare on a percentage basis with other companies).  So, then this company...Company X..."persuaded" my then employer to start a new award that it could win.  My company did this, calling it the Company X award.  The next year, they awarded the award to another company (because THAT IS HOW THESE THINGS WORK), but Company X threw a fit.  So, every year since then (at least as long as I was working there), the same company would win the award because it was THEIR award.

It's similar with Jackson--he can't win a Harper Avery, so he wants his own award.  When you start a competition like this, you actually have to run it and be one of the judges (if not the judge).  If you basically own the award, your winning it is an even greater (and more problematic) case of nepotism than if it were your family's award.  The Harper Avery is not the only award out there.  If Jackson wants to win something and wants to compete as a regular doctor, as you say, then he should enter another competition.  

I have a feeling that this award is a plot device to get all the doctors working against each other--and I kind of like that idea.  However, the show could have easily done this and not have Jackson be the one to start it.  Rich guy doomed to death is saved by surgeons at the hospital and, in thanks, starts this award.  Done!  Now, Jackson can be a regular doctor and spend all his plastics time doing ortho work--like he was in this episode.

[kurtz]

This was an extremely well written, well paced and well directed episode. All of the regular cast were included in an organic way, and the dialogue felt authentic to each character. 

I’m not an April fan, but Sarah Drew has always done a phenomenal job of portraying her. Last night was her best episode to date. 

Since I follow Jesse Williams on Twitter, I realize how personal this episode was for him.  My husband and I loved Jackson’s lines (paraphrased) “I didn’t say you were racist. I said you were biased. And bias can be changed.”  As a Latina, I appreciated that Jackson said “Brown” not black.  

And The Talk. Chandra Wilson, Jason George and the young man who played Tuck  were outstanding.  I watch very few network shows so I’m not certain that this hasn’t been broached before on another show in such depth and with such sensitivity by regular characters we know and care about. 

[Biggie B]

I thought it was an OK episode overall, a little predictable (the two deaths) but punctuated with several outstanding moments, namely:  The Talk with Tuck (tragically spot on and vividly true, not political in any way, shape, or form); the interaction between Jo and the fiancee (I was extremely relieved that despite the teaser from last week, she did NOT frame Jo, and really DID realize what was happening to her); and the look on April's face when Matthew said how great things ended up for both of them after all (NOT!). While it was a bit trite that April hopped into bed with that doofus intern (we get it -she's having a crisis of faith), I appreciate that they're moving her character to a different place in her life. She's going to struggle mightily now and I hope the writers don't go overboard with it. I don't want to see her now having one-night stands and trashing religion right and left. And I sure don't want her skills as a doctor to suffer either. 

The masturbating young man character was silly. I do hope they brought in the psych consult for him - or at least, a clergy person to talk some sense into him!

Not interested at all in Maggie's brief scenes. Yes, it's good that the two boys got some good science stuff, but - eh.

So now what for Jo/Brooke? She's now legally free to marry Alex, so let's see if that actually happens. 

Did April ever know that Paul was Jo's ex, and was abusive? If not, I hope she does find out, and also finds out how he died. She thinks she missed something and thus is perhaps partially responsible for his death, on top of Matthew's wife (the unusual blood pressure issue). At least if she knows that she had nothing at all to do with Paul's death - purely and fortuitously accidental - that might lessen the guilt or intensity she's feeling from it.

I haven't been paying attention to the award plot. Whatever I know about it comes solely from reading this forum. 

[How does one now "like" someone else's post? The little heart symbol is gone.] [Oh wait, there it is - moved all the way over to the right!]

Edited January 26, 2018 by Biggie B

[moonorchid]

There was so much in this episode and I was doubtful how it would all fit in and I am pleasantly surprised that it fit really well. 

I’m gonna start with April. 

Ive been wanting April to grow for a long time. The way she’s interpreted her own religion has always been on the immature side and while I don’t think sleeping around equals growth, what it did equate for april was Rock bottom, and this is how she’s acting out. 

April was hit from all sides emotionally this episode. From facing past mistakes in Matthew and facing how that all ended up, a Samuel mention which would prob trigger her, Matthews wife dying on her and the guilt from that even though she did all she could do. Sorry Arizona, you can lose me with your attitude and with your “sorry, HIPPA”, like you give a damn about hippa now. 

Then with the boy, oh my god it seems outlandish till you turn on the news and realize this is happening EVERY DAY! And why after it was proven he lived there did the cops continue to stand watch, TWO COPS! This is what’s wrong in this country! April was the observer and when she started with some “explainist” type stuff, she was shut down quick, and I appreciated that and how she didn’t belabor the point. A moment that gets overlooked for what contributed to her day, as Jackson is talking about his own experiences with the police april is completely horrified. Considering who april is and her background and how this show didn’t talk about race till last season, I do buy that she never knew, it’s like Jackson said, it doesn’t get brought up till it’s brought up. But seeing this boy and listening to Jackson, she was crushed that someone she cares about as deeply as she cares about Jackson WAS this boy. That is soul crushing. 

April has always been “why would God do this?” Sarah Drew in an interview talks about how there is room for doubt and anger in Christianity cause that’s hows faith works. Sarah Drew has always wanted a more nuanced faith for april and I think they are finally going to give that to April. Its growth and I am all for that. 

I was telling a friend as we were watching, tuck getting “the talk” was heartbreaking. That childlike glee when maggie was doing the science experiment was melting away as bailey went on. Tucks childhood has essentially changed forever. But the most heartbreaking part of all, he can do everything bailey and Ben said to do, to a tee, and he could still get shot by the police for “looking” threatening. That’s reality. 

(Side note: bailey mentioned how he can’t have a toy gun in public like his white friends and I immediately thought about tamir rice, whom I still think about a lot to this day)

Edited January 26, 2018 by moonorchid

[OtterMommy]

3 minutes ago, moonorchid said:

April was hit from all sides emotionally this episode. From facing past mistakes in Matthew and facing how that all ended up, a Samuel mention which would prob trigger her, Matthews wife dying on her and the guilt from that even though she did all she could do. Sorry Arizona, you can lose me with your attitude and with your “sorry, HIPPA”, like you give a damn about hippa now. 

Ah yes, HIPPA....the most convenient of Federal regulations!

I found it hilarious that this show violates HIPPA every single episode and then THIS is the situation where they start to apply it?

Yeah, I was frustrated with Arizona as well.  It was April's responsibility to care for Matthew's husband in so far as that she cared for while she was in the ER (which she did), she contacted Arizona (which she did, but Arizona was in surgery and then pretty lackadaisical about dealing with Mrs. Matthew), and getting her out of the ER (which she was working on).  However, what happened with Mrs. Matthew, was out of April's control and not her responsibility.  I think it was a bad situation, but if one has to lay blame, it would probably land on Arizona, not April.  After all, Arizona was out of surgery by the time that Mrs. Matthew started having problems.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

1 hour ago, JTM said:

Although I can see where you're coming from -- in the sense that there's a whole 'ripped from the headlines' aspect to it -- I think what you're missing is this is and has been simply reality for a great many people for a very long time.

 

So, for example, if you didn't have the same reaction to the storyline where 'apparently delightful man is actually abusive', that's because you've come to recognize that as a thing that happens in reality and can therefore arise in a tv show at any time without carrying a specific political agenda (eg, #metoo). Which is great, because it does. 

 

But OUR experience and what WE recognize as happening in reality all the time and therefore toss-able into a tv show at any time, isn't necessarily the totality of that reality. So to dismiss something as having been added due to a political agenda is actually to deliberately discount its import as perhaps quite representative of the reality of a great many people. And therefore reasonably insert-able at any time. As reality.

 

The fact is, 'the talk' has been part of AA reality for centuries, in every generation. So to show it on a tv show is simply to show a piece of real AA life and parenting, comparable to showing any parents talking to their children about any other sort of vulnerability they have in relation to the world. It's just showing a piece of reality.

 

That makes it a pretty troubling impulse to immediately jump to deliberately discounting its import as being about a political agenda. Instead, why not allow its inclusion in the show to widen your understanding of what constitutes regular life for a great many people, if not for you specifically?

I wish the forum software would let me like this post a hundred more times. Thank you for explaining this much more calmly than I possibly could have. I might need to print your post in its entirety and just start handing it to people as a response. 

[CED9]

8 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

Ah yes, HIPPA....the most convenient of Federal regulations!

I found it hilarious that this show violates HIPPA every single episode and then THIS is the situation where they start to apply it?

Yeah, I was frustrated with Arizona as well.  It was April's responsibility to care for Matthew's husband in so far as that she cared for while she was in the ER (which she did), she contacted Arizona (which she did, but Arizona was in surgery and then pretty lackadaisical about dealing with Mrs. Matthew), and getting her out of the ER (which she was working on).  However, what happened with Mrs. Matthew, was out of April's control and not her responsibility.  I think it was a bad situation, but if one has to lay blame, it would probably land on Arizona, not April.  After all, Arizona was out of surgery by the time that Mrs. Matthew started having problems.

I didn’t understand why that was Arizona’s responsibility, though. She’s a Fetal surgeon. Wouldn’t operating on a mother postpartum be a General Surgeon’s job?

[OtterMommy]

Just now, CED9 said:

I didn’t understand why that was Arizona’s responsibility, though. She’s a Fetal surgeon. Wouldn’t operating on a mother postpartum be a General Surgeon’s job?

Well, yes, this is true.  

But, this is Grey's and they spent this episode having their plastics guy do ortho...so....

[CED9]

2 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

Well, yes, this is true.  

But, this is Grey's and they spent this episode having their plastics guy do ortho...so....

I’ll just shrug and assume dramatic license because it was April centric and April and Arizona are supposed to be best friends or something.

[DearEvette]

No matter what you think of the plot lines of the various stories in this ep, I have to say all the actors really brought it.

Sarah Drew was the MVP.  She did a fantastic job of letting us see April's spiral in this episode.  How her patience and good cheer slowly moved to frustration and the look on her face when she realized that Matthew's wife had died was like "please not one more blow."  And her final look into the camera she did 'dead eyes' rally well.

Camilla was a second runner up with Bethany Joy Lenz nipping at her heels.  This was the most I've liked Jo since. well, ever.  Her hysterical laughter followed by her sobbing was well done.  I also like how absolutely fried and jumpy BJL was. 

The talk with Bailey, Ben and Tuck was powerful in its simplicity.  And while I've drilled into the head of my older son everything that he should and should not do, it wasn't til Tamir Rice that I felt I needed to have that talk just yet to my 11 y.o.  So yeah, this fucking resonated!

Also really appreciated them trying to address the differences between racism and bias.  And Jesse Williams looked like he was totally tapping into the rage he felt when he delivered his memorable speech at the BET awards in 2016.

 I did like the lighter comedic touches too... Meredith's reluctance to take Paul's pulse,  the sheer absurdity of Paul conking himself on the head because of his anger.  Talk about an ignominious death.  This is also the first time I really liked DeLuca's sister.  She was speaking frankly and with sense and without all the nudgey-winky subtext we've seen from her when she talked about sex.  And Finally Maggie's 'It's Science!" scene was cute.

[marcee]

1 hour ago, OtterMommy said:

No, I don't believe I'm missing the point. 

There is a large Fortune 500 company in my area.  I used to work for a utility that had an annual award that it would give to other local companies who made significant steps forward in a certain field.  Well, this big company could never win (I don't know if I can simplify this and have it make sense--basically, because it was so big and was worldwide, it's work in the area--which wasn't that great anyway and really could have improved--couldn't compare on a percentage basis with other companies).  So, then this company...Company X..."persuaded" my then employer to start a new award that it could win.  My company did this, calling it the Company X award.  The next year, they awarded the award to another company (because THAT IS HOW THESE THINGS WORK), but Company X threw a fit.  So, every year since then (at least as long as I was working there), the same company would win the award because it was THEIR award.

It's similar with Jackson--he can't win a Harper Avery, so he wants his own award.  When you start a competition like this, you actually have to run it and be one of the judges (if not the judge).  If you basically own the award, your winning it is an even greater (and more problematic) case of nepotism than if it were your family's award.  The Harper Avery is not the only award out there.  If Jackson wants to win something and wants to compete as a regular doctor, as you say, then he should enter another competition.  

I have a feeling that this award is a plot device to get all the doctors working against each other--and I kind of like that idea.  However, the show could have easily done this and not have Jackson be the one to start it.  Rich guy doomed to death is saved by surgeons at the hospital and, in thanks, starts this award.  Done!  Now, Jackson can be a regular doctor and spend all his plastics time doing ortho work--like he was in this episode.

But that's not what's happening here. This was specifically spelled out in the episodes. Jackson donated the money anonymously to create a competition in which he could actually compete - fairly. He's not trying to buy an award. He just wants to participate in a competition that doesn't have his name on it, so he has an actual chance of winning without anyone believing it was a case of nepotism. That's why he donated anonymously. And he wants someone to run the competition fairly. And he wants to participate. The end. Full stop. Apparently, the joke here is that no one wants to run it because everyone wants to participate - which is silly (not everyone is working on some big award-worthy ground-breaking project) but whatever.

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, CED9 said:

I didn’t understand why that was Arizona’s responsibility, though. She’s a Fetal surgeon. Wouldn’t operating on a mother postpartum be a General Surgeon’s job?

Arizona is a pediatric surgeon/fetal surgeon/OB who delivers normal uncomplicated deliveries. Much like Addison was a fetal surgeon who by the end of her time at Seattle Grace was an OB.  Much like how Mark was the world's best plastic surgeon who spent most of his time doing ENT treatments by the end.  

The writers can't keep straight what the doctors do.

[OtterMommy]

1 minute ago, marcee said:

But that's not what's happening here. This was specifically spelled out in the episodes. Jackson donated the money anonymously to create a competition in which he could actually compete - fairly. He's not trying to buy an award. He just wants to participate in a competition that doesn't have his name on it, so he has an actual chance of winning without anyone believing it was a case of nepotism. That's why he donated anonymously. And he wants someone to run the competition fairly. And he wants to participate. The end. Full stop. Apparently, the joke here is that no one wants to run it because everyone wants to participate - which is silly (not everyone is working on some big award-worthy ground-breaking project) but whatever.

I understand that Jackson wants to compete fairly in a competition, which is why he should enter a competition that already exists (and that isn't run by the Harper Avery foundation).  There was no need for him to start his own award, other than he had half a billion dollars to get rid of (I'm pretty sure there are other ways to handle that).  I get that these other awards are not as prestigious as the Harper Avery, but I bet they are a hell of a lot more prestigious than this no name award that popped up out of nowhere and is in its first year.

The purpose of these awards is to recognize, but also to encourage, innovating work that advances medicine.  The purpose of Jackson's award is to stroke his own ego.  There has never been any pretense that it is anything but that.

[MrWhyt]

I'm kind of surprised no one said "Hey Jo you kind of have a conflict of interest here, let's get one of his other family members to handle the decisions"

[OtterMommy]

4 minutes ago, MrWhyt said:

I'm kind of surprised no one said "Hey Jo you kind of have a conflict of interest here, let's get one of his other family members to handle the decisions"

I think that was a case of there not being any other family members around AND the fact that, legally, Jo (er, Brooke) is his next of kin.  I'm not sure the doctor's have the authority to make that call.  

Also, wasn't Amelia the doctor here...does she even know the history Jo had with Paul?

[UNOSEZ]

14 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

 

The purpose of these awards is to recognize, but also to encourage, innovating work that advances medicine.  The purpose of Jackson's award is to stroke his own ego.  There has never been any pretense that it is anything but that.

How.. He would've won that Harper a very with Meredith.. He was a part of that surgery and plan leading up to it.. A big part and had to take his name off so she could win.. And maybe there are other awards.. But we've never heard of them or they aren't funded the way his is abt to be.. So maybe this thing he's created will be the next Harper a very.. Except now he has a chance to compete.. I don't see that as stroking an ego 

[CED9]

19 minutes ago, deaja said:

Arizona is a pediatric surgeon/fetal surgeon/OB who delivers normal uncomplicated deliveries. Much like Addison was a fetal surgeon who by the end of her time at Seattle Grace was an OB.  Much like how Mark was the world's best plastic surgeon who spent most of his time doing ENT treatments by the end.  

The writers can't keep straight what the doctors do.

I think it’s show canon that Mark (Plastics/ENT) Addison (Fetal/OB) and Arizona (Peds/Fetal) are all double board certified, so that makes sense.

It’s when they’re doing random things outside their specialties that I kind of roll my eyes.

ETA: Although I guess you could argue that they’re all technically General Surgeons with sub specialties.

Edited January 26, 2018 by CED9

[NeverLate]

2 hours ago, LexieLily said:

They kept saying how Paul is/was a big and successful doctor, and powerful. Since we learned that Jo was still legally his wife does this mean presumably she has scenes to look forward to of inheriting a great deal of money? 

I don't think so, no, he abused his power, that was the takeaway for me. Nobody would believe the women over him.

27 minutes ago, MrWhyt said:

I'm kind of surprised no one said "Hey Jo you kind of have a conflict of interest here, let's get one of his other family members to handle the decisions"

She was his wife!

[ForeverAlone]

I enjoyed this episode, though as the episode progressed, I could see most of those deaths coming. The one I questioned the most was Matthew's wife. We know Arizona was her baby's fetal surgeon, but I presume she had another doctor as her OB? I only ask, because you would think that her chronically low pressure would be in her medical record and available. April might not have realized, because she was dealing with an emergency, but Arizona should have known. But yet,s she looked surprised when she was looking at her medical history. Her death SHOULD have been preventable, and it seemed like some sloppy doctoring on the part of someone. 

[OtterMommy]

2 minutes ago, ForeverAlone said:

I enjoyed this episode, though as the episode progressed, I could see most of those deaths coming. The one I questioned the most was Matthew's wife. We know Arizona was her baby's fetal surgeon, but I presume she had another doctor as her OB? I only ask, because you would think that her chronically low pressure would be in her medical record and available. April might not have realized, because she was dealing with an emergency, but Arizona should have known. But yet,s she looked surprised when she was looking at her medical history. Her death SHOULD have been preventable, and it seemed like some sloppy doctoring on the part of someone. 

Wasn't there also a shot of April looking through her medical record?  This wasn't a case of April having to make a snap decision in the moment.  Instead, she did what she needed to do and should have done and the information she needed was not there.  If it was sloppy doctoring, it was sloppy on the part of whoever had been putting information into the patient's medical record.

Again, where was Owen during this? Or, you know, anyone else?  I can buy that Owen may have had the day off.  I can't buy that April was the only doctor in the ER that day.

[ForeverAlone]

That was my point. Her low blood pressure SHOULD have been in her medical history, so April would at least be clued in. That's why I wonder who her OB was. Arizona seemed surprised, and that is the sort of thing that would have been known in advance, because it can be a serious medical complication. 

[anna0852]

What happened with Karen (Matthew's wife) actually underscores that Arizona is not qualified as an OBGYN. She is a fetal surgeon and a pediatric surgeon. She clearly knows how to do a C-section which I can see her needing to know how to do if a fetal surgery goes south but her management of a normal vaginal delivery apparently leaves much to be desired. It's my understanding that an OBGYN would have known to keep an eye on the blood pressure. Post-natal pre-eclampsia is rare but it can happen and somebody who is not trained in that particular specialty is probably not going to know to look for it. I would not be surprised at all if Matthew were to bring a malpractice suit. And unfortunately while April is essentially blameless in this I wouldn't be surprised if he tried to sue her as well. I certainly didn't read him as making any sort of peace with her, not that he's required to, and the death of his wife after April delivered their child would most certainly make most people in Matthew's position consider their legal options.