Previous Episodes Discussion

[jhlipton]

After the stat of non-black men rejecting black women around 80%, I think), I wondered how many black men reject black women.  I would expect it to b e at least 25% but wouldn't be surprised if it was higher.

On 3/8/2018 at 10:52 PM, possibilities said:

I hated Mr CoolFace schooling Zoey on How Art Happens.

And he didn't even use the piece Zoey (rightly) objected to,  My wife and I hated the finished piece.  The pattern was too subdued to work, and it didn't make sense as a garment:  If for cold weather, fur, but no open front; if for warm weather, open front but no fur.

On 3/10/2018 at 2:21 PM, Neurochick said:

they all had a good conversation the next day. 

I thought it was interesting that Sky ended up with the black guy putting her in somewhat the same category -- choosing people more by race than anything else -- as the people she was complaining about.

Also, Jazz stating that her dad would be mad as a reason not to date the white guy kind of jumped out at me.

6 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I agree with this because I felt the twins were nearly the same complexion as the girls Aaron was attracted to.

I see the Baileys as much darker that Aron's "queens".  As seen here

they are darker than everyone except Aron.

[Raja]

On 3/11/2018 at 12:37 PM, Neurochick said:

I agree with this because I felt the twins were nearly the same complexion as the girls Aaron was attracted to. 

The list was interesting because when I was in college (in the late 70's), Asian women would not be as high up as white women, and Hispanic women might not even register.  When I was in college, most of the white men were into women who looked like Farrah Fawcett/Cheryl Tiegs.  I had a roommate who was half Asian, half white and the white men wouldn't look at her twice.  I had a roommate who was Afro-Latina who realized the white men weren't checking for her.  She married a black man.

Plus one on the twins issue.

 

 I was in a Black high school with Asians as the minority in the late 70s and entered state colleges in the early 80s the perception was that Asians, from multi generational Chinese and Japanese Americans to Vietnamese refugees were the least likely to be as free for pre and extra marital sex as the other major racial and ethnic groups. It was a bit later that the mail order bride and Asian sex tourism thing followed the publications and movies inspired veterans war and R&R memoirs.

Edited March 13, 2018 by Raja

[jumper sage]

I am always pleased with the topics on this show.

With that being said, I didn't date anyone in college who went to my school.  I don't like my worlds colliding.  School is for school and dating is outside of work and school.  I did appreciate the content but seriously shouldn't they be more worried about school and classes?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

The crew gets ready for Freshman Formal, and Zoey, Aaron, and Luca confront their issues with modern-day relationships. Meanwhile, Jazz revels in a new relationship and Ana realizes she's the tamest of the group in a game of "Never Have I Ever."

[jumper sage]

Love the theme of kids being on social media needing a safe place.  

The girl with Cuban descent drove me crazy too.  She is a conservative and her story is that her grandfather is in prison in Cuba for speaking out.  I still don't get the connection to conservatism in this country because it's not like he can come here.  He would be one of those barred from this country.   I don't get it at all.

I did understand how the other kids told Zoe she didn't understand as well as they did because she is from a wealthy background.

Edited March 15, 2018 by jumper sage

[TVForever]

I liked the episode, and appreciated that Zoey was dealing with a "privilege" of her own. This show dips into some very real topics, and I often find that the episodes end too soon. 

But why does the show insist of following the path of every teen-oriented show ever made and making the adults such idiots? Between Charlie (the professor, a crossover from blackish that I STILL don't understand) and the Dean, I would choose the Dean as the worst character, but only because we see him more. 

[jumper sage]

Ha ha.  I think Charlie is acting as shady as his character is in Black-ish.

[tennisgurl]

Oh my God, Zoe and her Facebook filter activism was so real, I was dying. I totally have used, like, all of those filters she used. "There has to be a filter to make this better." That and Nomis #woke drink orders were just killing me. I really want to try some Rose Parks wine and a 40 acres and  Moscow Mule. 

I liked the whole discussion about Safe Spaces, and their pros and cons. I think I come down close to how I think Zoe did in the end, that places like Hawkins are great places for students have similar backgrounds to come together and understand each other, but its also good to get out of your safe spaces sometimes and get to know people from different backgrounds as well, and maybe find some common ground. Even when it means having some awkward conversations. At least it must be less awkward than the two dorky white guys who keep not reading the Facebook event clearly. 

We also got a round of the good old "which group has suffered worst" circle jerk. "Hitler!" "Slavery!" "Cant all these atrocities get along?" I liked the argument between Ana and Aaron, and I could understand where they were both coming from. Also chucked at "We need a sponsor who will willingly give an investment for something that is insanely risky with little reward" and immediately cutting to Charlie. 

[Dee]

I like Zoey and Luca's relationship. But him listening to, and/or heeding her advice, in a few episodes would be a nice change of pace. I know the show is trying to position him as The Awesome Guy™, but his Black Yoda bit is growing stale.

The Twins & Nomi continue to be delightful. "Slavery!" "So, can we get back to the Jews?!"

I love Zoey's friends continuing to, lovingly, call her out about her flaws.

That said, she was 100% right that Ana & Aaron were both being jerks.

No Vivek this week. Boo.

[tennisgurl]

It really is weird watching an episode of Black-ish, and being like "yeah yeah, I cant wait to see what Zoe and her friends are up to". Definitely not a sentence that I ever expected to say!

[jhlipton]

On 3/15/2018 at 9:27 AM, jumper sage said:

The girl with Cuban descent drove me crazy too.  She is a conservative and her story is that her grandfather is in prison in Cuba for speaking out.  I still don't get the connection to conservatism in this country because it's not like he can come here.  He would be one of those barred from this country.   I don't get it at all.

OMG, the ricos.  The Cubans who fled before Castro took over and have forgotten what a hellhole Cuba was under Batista...  They are possibly the most conservative group in the US and one of the major reasons Florida votes GOP.  They use Cuba's horrid human rights abuses (and Zoey didn't get the memo that Che Guevera isn't a hero anymore) to push it further and further from the US.  That part of her speech rang very true.

But I'm sorry.  Every VFW hall or NASCAR race, to name just two of many,  is a safe space for conservatives.  

On 3/15/2018 at 3:58 PM, tennisgurl said:

It really is weird watching an episode of Black-ish, and being like "yeah yeah, I cant wait to see what Zoe and her friends are up to". Definitely not a sentence that I ever expected to say!

Same here. grown-ish isn't quite to the level of Dear White People, but it's much better than the "mother show".

[possibilities]

Maybe someday they'll do an episode on false equivalences.

[jhlipton]

4 hours ago, possibilities said:

Maybe someday they'll do an episode on false equivalences.

They kind of, sort of danced around that a bit, with Ana saying there were no specific safe spaces for conservatives.  But they didn't get into it in any great depth.

[Neurochick]

14 hours ago, jhlipton said:

OMG, the ricos.  The Cubans who fled before Castro took over and have forgotten what a hellhole Cuba was under Batista...  They are possibly the most conservative group in the US and one of the major reasons Florida votes GOP.  They use Cuba's horrid human rights abuses (and Zoey didn't get the memo that Che Guevera isn't a hero anymore) to push it further and further from the US.  That part of her speech rang very true.

But I'm sorry.  Every VFW hall or NASCAR race, to name just two of many,  is a safe space for conservatives.

Quite true.  But I think the episode did raise a good point.  Who deserves to have safe spaces?  Now, I don't look to hang out with conservatives, but I have a boyfriend who has some conservatives views.  Being conservative doesn't make you alt.right.

[DearEvette]

5 hours ago, jhlipton said:

They kind of, sort of danced around that a bit, with Ana saying there were no specific safe spaces for conservatives.  But they didn't get into it in any great depth.

This is what frustrates me a bit about this show.  It really gets into some good discussions, just the kind that should happen in college, and they can;t really explore them in any good depth because 22 minutes and bloop it is over. It could easily be longer.  Oh well.

I liked what they were trying to say and on some level I agree. A safe space should be a place where you feel comfortable espousing your views without the fear of judgement.  So in that sense, Ana is right that she has a right to a safe space, but that would depend on what the majority make up of the student body is.  If there are more conservative women there than not, then she de facto has a space space because she would be part of the majority and isn't marginalized. 

On the other hand, it could also be argued that a safe space could be defined as a place available for people who otherwise might feel physically unsafe in other spaces under certain circumstances.  In that sense, a space for conservative women (based on political views) isn't on the same plane as a safe space for LGBTQ or POC or just women in general.

I did like that in the last couple of episodes the show has allowed the other characters to be more front and center with Zoe playing a teensy bit more of a support role.  Glad to see them moving in that direction.

[mehtotheworld]

18 hours ago, jhlipton said:

OMG, the ricos.  The Cubans who fled before Castro took over and have forgotten what a hellhole Cuba was under Batista...  They are possibly the most conservative group in the US and one of the major reasons Florida votes GOP.  They use Cuba's horrid human rights abuses (and Zoey didn't get the memo that Che Guevera isn't a hero anymore) to push it further and further from the US.  That part of her speech rang very true.

I have to say, I've really never heard of conservative Cuban Americans being called "ricos"--they're so many working class people in that category! For anyone curious, the whole Cuban American Democrat vs. Republican thing has roots in the Bay of Pigs, and the Elian Gonzalez issue unfortunately solidified that for a large group of older Cubans, to the point where it may have helped get Bush elected (Lord forgive us). And yeah, what was up with that Che Guevara nonsense? There's no '60s era civil rights figure she could mention? Zoey's Sinaloa comment was also particularly wince-inducing -- if they're going to go there, why not go with Scarface? I'm going to be kind and chalk it up to her lack of real political knowledge or experience, but really show, that's on you.

I'm not Jewish so this isn't coming from personal experience, but it kind of makes me wince when characters dismiss the Jewish experience when Nomi brings it up. 

I can't be the only one who finds Luca to be the most annoying human, just slightly ahead of Vivek. 

I think my favorite characters are the twins. 

[possibilities]

I also find Luca insufferable.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 3/13/2018 at 9:23 PM, jumper sage said:

I am always pleased with the topics on this show.

With that being said, I didn't date anyone in college who went to my school.  I don't like my worlds colliding.  School is for school and dating is outside of work and school.  I did appreciate the content but seriously shouldn't they be more worried about school and classes?

Except for occasional fashion projects, the twins' track, and some activism, their college life seems to be all about dating and partying. We should really have a midterms or exam week episode.

Edited March 19, 2018 by ItCouldBeWorse

[jhlipton]

11 hours ago, mehtotheworld said:

I have to say, I've really never heard of conservative Cuban Americans being called "ricos"--they're so many working class people in that category! For anyone curious, the whole Cuban American Democrat vs. Republican thing has roots in the Bay of Pigs, and the Elian Gonzalez issue unfortunately solidified that for a large group of older Cubans, to the point where it may have helped get Bush elected (Lord forgive us).

The "first wave" of Cuban exiles, including brothel and plantation owners and other "fat cats" (the one I heard called "ricos" somewhere that I don't recall), that left as the Revolution succeeded, tended to be fairly conservative.  The Bay of Pigs and Gonzales incidents amplified it more-so.

[Dee]

Zoey's milkshake brings all the boys to the yard.

I am totally shipping Nomi/Ana after this episode. They are just too adorable.

Jazz squealing about Doug buying her baby wipes had me on the floor. Whoever cast Chloe & Halle on this show should be given a raise.

No Vivek again this week. Boo.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

SEASON FINALE!

Quote

Zoey has a big decision to make about her love life, and everyone has an opinion about it.

[qtpye]

Oooh Zoey, being jealous of Jazz's relationship and the attention not being on you for a hot minute...not a good look.

[Mr. Sparkle]

Luckily, she was able to quickly make it about her. 

[Empress1]

I didn’t like Zoe’s formal dress. It felt very juvenile. I know she’s only 18 but I’d think she’d go with something more sophisticated. I loved Nomi’s suit though.

12 hours ago, Dee said:

Zoey's milkshake brings all the boys to the yard.

I am totally shipping Nomi/Ana after this episode. They are just too adorable.

Jazz squealing about Doug buying her baby wipes had me on the floor. Whoever cast Chloe & Halle on this show should be given a raise.

No Vivek again this week. Boo.

That really was funny. “There were baby wipes waiting for me!” Not the most romantic way to define a relationship, but hey!

[jumper sage]

I don't understand why Zoe wants to date the two guys in her crew.  You take a guy in your crew, as a friend, if you need a date for something.  To romance back and forth is pretty flighty.

[Sheenieb]

Zoey needs to forget about Luca. If she 'dates' him, she'll be the one doing all the emotional labor. I guarantee she'll ask the "what are we?" question, and he'll come back with, "why do we have to put a label on it? Why can't we just be?" Or something equally pretentious and fuckboy-ish. 

That dress looked like a comforter. Was it supposed to be an homage to Pretty in Pink? 

Nomi's suit was everything, though. 

[Empress1]

1 hour ago, Sheenieb said:

Zoey needs to forget about Luca. If she 'dates' him, she'll be the one doing all the emotional labor. I guarantee she'll ask the "what are we?" question, and he'll come back with, "why do we have to put a label on it? Why can't we just be?" Or something equally pretentious and fuckboy-ish. 

That dress looked like a comforter. Was it supposed to be an homage to Pretty in Pink? 

Nomi's suit was everything, though. 

He’ll also blow off the conventional stuff she likes as “not [his] scene” and probably mock her for liking them.

[allonsyalice]

3 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I didn’t like Zoe’s formal dress. It felt very juvenile. I know she’s only 18 but I’d think she’d go with something more sophisticated. I loved Nomi’s suit though.

 

The length was definitely wrong. It could have been just a little longer, maybe past her knees and it would have looked a lot better. anyway, I definitely agree with you there. that shade of pink really is Yara's colour, though. 

[HunterHunted]

2 hours ago, Sheenieb said:

Nomi's suit was everything, though. 

It was blazing; it was fire.

[tennisgurl]

Jazz squealing about Doug buying babywipes was so adorable. Yep, now its for real love! 

Really, Zoe should think twice about dating any of the guys in her friend group. If they have a bad break up, it could get awkward and screw up the group dynamic really fast. That being said, I think she would actually be better off with Aaron if he has to pick one. He at least would eventually get around to being upfront with her, and they have pretty similar personalities (add or take politics and fashion) that would work better. Luca is super detached and ironic about everything, and that would make being real with him a huge pain. 

Anna and Nomi were actually super adorable. And I love/am weirded out by Anna's crush on Nomis uncle. I thought all the girls looked great, but Nomi wins best dressed tonight. Sorry Zoe, but you looked kind of like a cupcake, and that suit was amazing. 

[jhlipton]

Luca is a big fat NO to me.  He's constantly putting her down and dismissing her ideas.  Fuck him with a 2 by 4, as the saying goes.  Aaron was better, but someone outside the "friendzone" might work better.

[luckyroll3]

On 3/22/2018 at 5:16 AM, qtpye said:

Oooh Zoey, being jealous of Jazz's relationship and the attention not being on you for a hot minute...not a good look.

Definitely not a good look, but so completely in character for her.  I'm really glad that they didn't try to change the character traits that were established on Blackish.

20 hours ago, Sheenieb said:

Zoey needs to forget about Luca. If she 'dates' him, she'll be the one doing all the emotional labor. I guarantee she'll ask the "what are we?" question, and he'll come back with, "why do we have to put a label on it? Why can't we just be?" Or something equally pretentious and fuckboy-ish. 

Yes, but he's so pretty though!  That's how they get ya.  But Aaron is just as pretentious with his politics and woke-ness.  

[qtpye]

11 minutes ago, luckyroll3 said:

Yes, but he's so pretty though!  That's how they get ya.  But Aaron is just as pretentious with his politics and woke-ness.  

 

7 hours ago, jhlipton said:

Luca is a big fat NO to me.  He's constantly putting her down and dismissing her ideas.  Fuck him with a 2 by 4, as the saying goes.  Aaron was better, but someone outside the "friendzone" might work better.

See, Luca is the type of brother that just does not do anything for me. Aaron was upfront about and apologetic about putting Zoey in the "homie" zone because he was afraid to share his real feelings.

Luca made Zoey a "pretty pretty princess" dress (seriously, for someone so cool, his dress was lame, though Zoey looks good in anything) and then gave her messed up signals and has to the nerve to be offended because she can't read his mind.

Also, Luca is so for "living in the moment" that he will never be good boyfriend material.

[Dee]

I loved the color of Zoey's dress but hated the style. Her makeup and hair were wonderful though.

[Empress1]

2 hours ago, qtpye said:

 

See, Luca is the type of brother that just does not do anything for me. Aaron was upfront about and apologetic about putting Zoey in the "homie" zone because he was afraid to share his real feelings.

Luca made Zoey a "pretty pretty princess" dress (seriously, for someone so cool, his dress was lame, though Zoey looks good in anything) and then gave her messed up signals and has to the nerve to be offended because she can't read his mind.

Also, Luca is so for "living in the moment" that he will never be good boyfriend material.

Me neither. He's pretentious and self-absorbed (although Zoe is self-absorbed too) and you'd never really know where you stood with him. If anyone told me "Let me bless you with these hands," I'd roll my eyes, especially if he came back with the dress he made Zoe. (He'd totally be the designer on Project Runway who shits all over the model when they have to do the "regular person" challenge.) I don't even think he's that cute. As I said elsewhere, I value clear communication and I don't think you'd ever get that with Luca.

In college, my friend group was pretty incestuous so I get Zoe going there.

[QQQQ]

It's kinda awesome what the youth, beauty, and confidence can let people get away with fashionwise. Put this 47 yo Midwestern lady in 95% of Zoey's ensembles and I'd look like I drunkenly grabbed random items from the Goodwill lost and found bin during a power outage. 

[Dee]

Zoey is totally gonna pull a Kelly Taylor next week.

[QQQQ]

54 minutes ago, Dee said:

Zoey is totally gonna pull a Kelly Taylor next week.

I've forgotten most of what I  learned in college/grad school in 90s but am oddly proud to remember this, ha ha!!

[fredfreddy44]

I like this show and suspend reality when it comes to budgets for 18s clothes and makeup, dorm size, lack of actual classes.  But I can't get past 18 and 19 year olds paying for drinks in public places when the legal drinking age is 21 across the whole country.

[jhlipton]

On 3/23/2018 at 6:51 AM, Dee said:

I loved the color of Zoey's dress but hated the style. Her makeup and hair were wonderful though.

I couldn't see but it looked like her hairpins might have spelled something.  Did anyone catch it, or am I just making it up?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I was already annoyed with Zoey earlier in the episode for the same reasons that Nomi spelled out at the end. When you are choosing between two boys by seeing which one of them can be bothered to acknowledge having a relationship with you beyond friendship, you're looking at the wrong people to have relationships with. It should be YOUR choice, not whoever will deign to admit to you, himself, or his friends that you're more than just friends. For someone with such a high opinion of herself, Zoey has pretty low standards about what constitutes boyfriend material.

Luka talking about how corny the dance was reminded me of Jordan Catalano saying that he didn't make plans because "they blow," so I knew he would end up being at the dance.

I don't think Zoey should date either Aaron or Luka but if I had to choose between the two as a boyfriend for Zoey, I'd give Aaron the edge because at least he had the balls to be honest with her and say that he liked her (and he apologized for handling the situation awkwardly in the dorm).

Luka, on the other hand, said he wasn't going to the dance and basically said, "It's lame but if you like lame stuff, have a good time." Then he showed up and accused her of having Aaron as a backup plan, despite the fact that at this point, Luka still hadn't acknowledged that he had any feelings for her. USE YOUR WORDS. You're not allowed to silently like a girl and then get mad when she kisses someone else. Aaron can be obnoxiously preachy but at least he's willing to communicate with words whereas Luka is not. But hey,who cares? Cash is back!

On 3/23/2018 at 1:42 PM, Dee said:

Zoey is totally gonna pull a Kelly Taylor next week.

It became obvious pretty early in the episode that she was going to try to decide between the two so Mr. EB and I defaulted to our usual Kelly Taylor decision whenever love triangles are involved on tv. But later in the episode, Mr. EB decided to choose one of Kelly's later options: "I choose cocaine! And a shady art dealer!"

[luckyroll3]

14 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

It became obvious pretty early in the episode that she was going to try to decide between the two so Mr. EB and I defaulted to our usual Kelly Taylor decision whenever love triangles are involved on tv. But later in the episode, Mr. EB decided to choose one of Kelly's later options: "I choose cocaine! And a shady art dealer!"

LMAO!  "I choose cocaine" Kelly was so much better than "I choose me" Kelly.

[sarkygal]

This entire episode was a rehash of episode 3. Haven't we already played this triangle with both boys dumping her and the storyline being dropped with the random Cash relationship? I want to like Zoe, but the other girls just seem like better people and friends.

 

I think the actress playing Nomi is underrated. She wore the hell out of that suit. Yara while beautiful is just not charismatic enough to carry the show and Zoe as a character bores me. 

 

Once again, the drug dealing kid is absent with no explanation.

[Mr. Sparkle]

I was just glad they didn't pull a cliffhanger for the big decision. 

[Empress1]

Ew, Luca?

[Artsda]

They should have kept Cash around.

[Dee]

I hollered at Cash assuming Luca was homeless.

[DearEvette]

Honestly, I like just having Luka and Aaron as boy members of their friend tribe.  There doesn't have to be a romance between any of them. 

I did not like this episode very much,  It devolved back into Zoey dating shenanigans which to me is the weakest part of the series.  Like I have said elsewhere, there is so much more story to mine about college life without it always being about Zoey's dating.  I loved the episodes with the twins and their dating/colorism issues and the safe space debates.  Even Vivek's drug dealing.   And I miss not seeing more of some of the Nomi's LGBTQ experiences.

There was this great episode of Dear White People where a group of them just did nothing all day except drift around campus -- they went to a tailgate party, they mooched food off a sparsely attended student club, they just hung around and ended the night at a big campus party.  We got a real sense of all the different groups on campus. 

Or there was this great episode of A Different World that was all about everybody cramming for finals.  It was so real because they got it exactly right -- people studying all night and sharing notes, they had dining halls open 24 hours for coffee and free donuts and snacks.  Then they'd roll out of bed with bad hair and sweats to make it to an 8:00 am final.  It was one of my favorite episodes of the first season.

They can do an episode of Parent's weekend so we could see everyobody's parents.  Or have them go on a road trip.  Dip a toe into Greek life.  Introduce some more faculty who are actually competent. Let us see them stressing about grades.  Introduce a rival posse.

As much as I am liking seeing all Zoey's dope outfits, it really isn't living up to the potential of the first few episodes.

[cuppasun]

well, I know I'm probably at the tiny, rickety minority Unpopular Opinion table here... but if they had to do a Love Interest at all (and it's young folks, in college, so that's not at all unrealistic), I've been Team Luca all the way, from the beginning. He's an artist, and seems to be least classically "masculine" of the bunch in most ways, and I like that. (Caveat: the way he handled the dance thing last week was a dick move, for sure. But of the three guys, I feel like he's most likely to learn from his mistakes, and not just in the sense of how it applies to him personally.) I never liked Cash, and Aaron seems like a poser (not slamming his activist heart, but he comes off more as a sound-bite activist than a truly educated, analytical, person-who-will-create-real-change kind of guy. Not to mention annoyingly, thoughtlessly guy, too, in sometimes subtle but decidedly sexist ways. Blech.)

Feel free to eyeroll in my general direction, folks! Heck, what do I know... I'm an old lady at this point, even my youngest child is a decade older than the kids in this show!

[tennisgurl]

I prefer Aaron/Zoe I think, but I like Luca too. I think he can be a pretentious ass, but he and Zoe do seem to get each other, and I dont think he is a bad dude. Really, I think Zoe should just be single for awhile (listen to Nomi!), but she seems like a girl who likes having a stead boyfriend, so she could certainly do worse. 

Gotta love the twins logic as to why she should pick Cash. "His name is literally Cash!" as opposed to Anna and Nomi, and their own thoughts as to who to pick. Also, I lost it when Cash said there was no way Luca wasn't homeless. 

Charlie gonna Charlie. I will actually miss this show, it was much better than I expected it to be, or more than the pilot. It reminded me a lot of first season Black-ish, where it dealt with real issues in natural ways, while also having lots of funny lines and scenes.