Announcers we love and/or hate

[Silver Raven]

NBC has dumped Joshua Cooper Ramo after his comments on Japan and Korea.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/off-air-nbc-pulls-commentator-105936326.html

[surreysmum]

I'm very much enjoying the Kurt Browning/Carol Lane/[Brenda Irving?] combo on CBC TV coverage.  Lane is completely upfront about her conflict of interest (being the coach of Gilles & Poirier), and I think she manages to be both fair and appreciative at the same time.  She doesn't go full-technical, but is very good at pointing out the almost invisible factors that lead to ice dance outcomes the casual viewer doesn't expect or understand (me included). She's also solid on singles & pairs basics; have never caught her misidentifying a jump, and her experience with choreography cuts across all disciplines. Kurt, of course, is a wonderfully knowledgeable and friendly doofus with an enthusiasm for the sport that doesn't descend into the inarticulate shrieking that characterized his pal Scott Hamilton. I partly credit Sonia Rodriguez (Kurt's wife and prima ballerina in the National Ballet of Canada) for his pretty sophisticated understanding of dance and body expression generally, while of course, being Mr. 1st-Quad himself, he also has a very good understanding of the moment-to-moment dynamics (pacing, breathing, recovering from disasters) of the delivery of a program. He's also far less self-conscious than he used to be, which means we get fewer foot-in-mouth moments.

The fact that I can't remember whether the person in the traffic-director and ordinary-viewer-standin position is actually Brenda Irving or not is a testament to her efficiency and non-intrusiveness in that role. 

I have always wished that North American announcers wouldn't burble so much, especially with the "human interest" stuff (shut up! I'm listening to the music! you know, that noise that the really good ones actually interpret?), and that hasn't changed. But Browning and Lane are a distinct improvement over clueless patriotism (looking at your grave, Johnny Esaw) or sulky, drawling resentment at being forced into patriotic platitudes (looking at your grave, my beloved Toller).  The current team root for the Canadians, low-key, but give due credit to everyone. And the CBC producers indulge them every so often when they say, "let's just sit back and enjoy this", which is absolute music to my ears.

I can't abide Johnny and Tara because they make it all about Johnny and Tara. But then again, I haven't watched them for a while, so maybe they've improved?

[blackwing]

First time for alpine skiing today.  Bode Miller is certainly knowledgeable and I appreciate his insights.  I do think he adds a lot to the commentary.  He's great at pointing out differences and things that aren't easily to see if you aren't an expert.  

But gee, I really don't like his voice.  Such a flat affect, it is fairly sleep-inducing.

[voiceover]

1 minute ago, blackwing said:

But gee, I really don't like his voice.  Such a flat affect, it is fairly sleep-inducing.

Good lord, I'd put it on CC, just so I wouldn't have to listen.  

But I love that ski-scraping-on-crusty-snow sound.

*sigh*  

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Bode's voice is off putting.  It felt to me like he was talking so much about how the racers needed to perform he was missing the race right in front of him.  Hey Bode, there's a guy hurtling down a hill really fast.  Could you pay attention?  I know it's old hat for you but some of us don't see it that often.  Of course I may have primarily been reacting to the droning quality of his voice.  He is the least colorful color announcer. 

[MyAimIsTrue]

8 hours ago, blackwing said:

First time for alpine skiing today.  Bode Miller is certainly knowledgeable and I appreciate his insights.  I do think he adds a lot to the commentary.  He's great at pointing out differences and things that aren't easily to see if you aren't an expert.  

But gee, I really don't like his voice.  Such a flat affect, it is fairly sleep-inducing.

Same.  He's interesting and informative but does not have a voice made for broadcasting.

[tanyak]

Ha. I was telling Mr. Tanyak the same thing about Bode's voice. I jokingly said he needed to go to the Rowdy Gaines School of Color Announcing. lol 

[Flarking Schnit]

Because it can never be said enough: SHUT UP AL!!! (watched a little cross country skiing this AM)

[voiceover]

Upfront: unabashed Apolo fangurl here.  But I'm really liking his color commentary for short track.

[Indy]

3 hours ago, Flarking Schnit said:

Because it can never be said enough: SHUT UP AL!!! (watched a little cross country skiing this AM)

When we had cross country on this weekend...

Al: ...words...

Me: SHUT UP AL!

My husband, confused: What’d he say?

Me: It doesn’t matter. He just needs to shut up

 

...though I will say he’s minorly less offensive when he calls CC. I didn’t hear him say anything awkward, racist, or derogatory...

[NUguy514]

8 minutes ago, Indy said:

...though I will say he’s minorly less offensive when he calls CC. I didn’t hear him say anything awkward, racist, or derogatory...

Well, the athletes are all white men, and he doesn't like anything else, so...yeah, he's best-suited to CC.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

21 hours ago, Flarking Schnit said:

Because it can never be said enough: SHUT UP AL!!! (watched a little cross country skiing this AM)

They announce Al's name - me:  "shut up,  Al!"

Al starts to speak - me: "shut up, Al!"

Al mentions the temperature - me: "shut up, Al!"  

At this point I am afraid I will meet someone named Al and immediately say, "shut up,  Al!"

[Indy]

I feel like someone needs to do a parody version of “You Can Call Me Al” called “Shut up Al!”

[mtlchick]

Aside: welcome back Steve Armitage (CBC) who had to skip Rio because of what turned out to be a virus instead of "chronic heart failure."  

[PrincessPurrsALot]

11 hours ago, PrincessPurrsALot said:

They announce Al's name - me:  "shut up,  Al!"

Al starts to speak - me: "shut up, Al!"

Al mentions the temperature - me: "shut up, Al!"  

At this point I am afraid I will meet someone named Al and immediately say, "shut up,  Al!"

Clearly I jinxed myself with the above post.  I have been at my current job for 5 weeks.  We need to swap a resource on a project.  Actual Google Hangout discussion:  

Manager - How about Peter?

Me - I don't think Peter is a good fit for this client.

Manager - Have you worked with Al?  He may be available.

Me - (Desperately trying not to type "shut up, Al!" or "do you mind if I constantly tell him to shut up?" or simply "Nooooooooooo!")
         type - No, I haven't worked with Al.  

Crisis averted . . . for now.  

[Ohwell]

I listened to Bode Miller last night and I think he sounds fine.

Edit:  I'm listening to Bode now and, yes, his voice is annoying now.  I don't know if it has to do with the mic, because when he was talking on the slopes yesterday he sounded different than he does now in the studio. 

Edited February 15, 2018 by Ohwell

[SophiaD]

Did that announcer really describe Tessa Worley as "little Tessa Worley?"  Ugh.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Bode does seem to be getting better about announcing the race he is watching and commenting on what is happening rather than continuing to speak in generalities during the run. 

[festivus]

I don't mind Bode but yeah his voice is like Ambien.

[kittykat]

On 2/14/2018 at 4:44 AM, PrincessPurrsALot said:

They announce Al's name - me:  "shut up,  Al!"

Al starts to speak - me: "shut up, Al!"

Al mentions the temperature - me: "shut up, Al!"  

At this point I am afraid I will meet someone named Al and immediately say, "shut up,  Al!"

Lol and the thing is that Al is somewhat tolerable in cross country commentary but just his voice is grating enough to flash back to annoying gymnastics commentary.  I wish I only had to tolerate him every four years.

[Tanichka]

On 12/02/2018 at 5:02 PM, surreysmum said:

But Browning and Lane are a distinct improvement over clueless patriotism (looking at your grave, Johnny Esaw) or sulky, drawling resentment at being forced into patriotic platitudes (looking at your grave, my beloved Toller).  The current team root for the Canadians, low-key, but give due credit to everyone. And the CBC producers indulge them every so often when they say, "let's just sit back and enjoy this", which is absolute music to my ears.

I can't abide Johnny and Tara because they make it all about Johnny and Tara. But then again, I haven't watched them for a while, so maybe they've improved?

I always enjoy Kurt - he's so knowledgeable & seems like a nice guy.  I find a lot of the American commentators are not really interested in non-Americans.

[blackwing]

14 minutes ago, Tanichka said:

I always enjoy Kurt - he's so knowledgeable & seems like a nice guy.  I find a lot of the American commentators are not really interested in non-Americans.

I think it's NBC that isn't interested in showing non-Americans.  Because their commentators Tara and Johnny certainly seem to be very appreciative of all the competitors.  They seem to have facts or anecdotes about each one and probably know many of them personally.  Johnny of course is obsessed with the Russians and his favoritism is obvious.  Tara said last night that she really wanted Aliona Savchenko to win the gold.

[gingerella]

Bode Miller is the poster boy for 'just because you can do, doesn't mean you can commentate about it' syndrome. He's monotone, lackluster and exudes an air of 'I'd rather be cleaning the grunge out of my bong than be here right now' attitude. I'd rather just have a professional commentator in that case because I dont need a blow by blow with my skiing, thanks very much!

As much as I still harbor resentment towards Tara for taking a gold medal I dont think she deserved, I think she has matured since then and I really like her and Johnny covering the skating. Dick Buttons, Scott Hamilton and company are soooooo damn boring that these two are a breath of fresh air, like double York Peppermint Patties. I love their humor, I appreciate their fashion flair, and I like that they prepare for their coverage with notes on various things related to the competitors, they dont feel like they're winging it or phoning it in. But Belbin, no thanks. She's dead boring and never shuts the fuck up. Tanith Babbler. I just watched a segment with her and Scott Hamilton - they were supposed to explain the difference between all the various jumps, and a shittier job could not have been done. If you're going to have people talk about the jumps, get people who can either DO the jumps, or better yet, just SHOW them in slow motion and explain with the magic highlighter what the difference is. They did that once for a previous Olympics and it was very helpful, but watching Scott try to show a jump on a plastic surface, and keeping his skates on the ground the entire time whilst holding a mic at the same time? Who thought that would go well?

And because it bears repeating, I *HUGE PUFFY HEART* miss Bob Costas so very much. It doesn't feel the same.

Also, where are the local customs and cultural packages this year?!?

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

Dick Buttons, Scott Hamilton and company are soooooo damn boring that these two are a breath of fresh air, like double York Peppermint Patties. I love their humor, I appreciate their fashion flair, and I like that they prepare for their coverage with notes on various things related to the competitors, they dont feel like they're winging it or phoning it in. But Belbin, no thanks. She's dead boring and never shuts the fuck up. Tanith Babbler. I just watched a segment with her and Scott Hamilton - they were supposed to explain the difference between all the various jumps, and a shittier job could not have been done. 

I liked Dick Button because he appreciated all the basics and was very critical of lazy skating.  And like Simon Cowell, Dick Button's praise MEANT EVERYTHING because he didn't appreciate most skaters. Tanith is everything you said--I call her Chatty Tanny!  But I think that ALL the US commentators are hearing us ... they've kept a LOT more quiet than usual.  I've been relentless about tweeting NBC/Terry Gannon (Terry, we don't need to know that a skater's mother is a welder in Gdansk and his father makes spaghetti every Saturday night) as well as the individual commentators.

[gingerella]

50 minutes ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

I liked Dick Button because he appreciated all the basics and was very critical of lazy skating.  And like Simon Cowell, Dick Button's praise MEANT EVERYTHING because he didn't appreciate most skaters. Tanith is everything you said--I call her Chatty Tanny!  But I think that ALL the US commentators are hearing us ... they've kept a LOT more quiet than usual.  I've been relentless about tweeting NBC/Terry Gannon (Terry, we don't need to know that a skater's mother is a welder in Gdansk and his father makes spaghetti every Saturday night) as well as the individual commentators.

I should say I am also enjoying Terry Gannon as the literal straight man to the Tara & Johnny Show. In fact, I laughed last night as soon as I saw them in their VDay pink ensembles and Terry had a pink pocket square to match them...finally! I saw that Tara and Johnny also applied a single blingy crystal to Terry's mic, just so, yanno, he could sparkle along with them. But yeah, he needs to talk much less. Why cant they say all the "trains here and there" bullshit BEFORE the person begins their skate, so we can focus only on the skating part? Why is shutting up so difficult for these folks? There's a difference between commentating and commenting alllll the time.

And just because...it's awesome that the Philipines had someone to send to the Winter Games for skating, I love those sort of unexpected moments!

[Ohwell]

Bode Miller:  SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP!!!

SHUT. THE. FUCK. UP!!!!!

The man just does not take a breath, he's got diarrhea of the mouth.

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

I should say I am also enjoying Terry Gannon as the literal straight man to the Tara & Johnny Show. 

He was definitely silent when he worked with Dick Button.  But every now and then, he would get in a sly comment that would sort of puncture Dick's pomposity.  I DO like their interplay, but NOT WHILE THE SKATERS ARE SKATING.  I keep picture them in a bar, talking, while skating is on IN THE BACKGROUND.  

No wonder so many people are watching events on icenetwork WITHOUT COMMENTARY.

[voiceover]

I may be worn down, but Bode showed some improvement today.  I liked his "pterodactyl arms" take on one skier.

[walnutqueen]

My love for Johnny Weir was cemented when he described a skating fiasco "like throwing a cat into a bathtub, and he does the starfish".  I DIED!  ;-)

[AuntTora]

Here's an actual transcription of the Alpine announcers:

Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin Brief Mention of Other Skiier Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin Ways in Which This Skiier is Similar to Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin Hey a UFO Just Landed on the Slope! How Will This Impact Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin Only Eight Skiiers Until Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin Mikaela Shiffrin /vom

She may be the greatest thing on earth, but I devoutly hope she lays an egg in all the remaining events. Of course that won't change the narrative.

Aside from this, I'm finding the coverage a lot better than it's been in past years. I've actually seen SEVERAL events with no Americans in medal contention.

FYI, Mikaela Shiffrin  is five skiiers away as I type this, and I just counted the times her name was spoken in the last three minutes: eight

[halopub]

13 hours ago, gingerella said:

Also, where are the local customs and cultural packages this year?!?

I've been seeing a few when I've dipped into the Today Show. David Chang took the morning crew out to Gangneung Central Market to introduce some produce and dishes. Rutledge Wood got to visit a spa and experience the extensive skincare routine. 

I'm kind of okay with them doing fewer cultural packages and instead showing live sports in prime time - I remember finding CBS's exoticization of the Nagano Olympics to be pretty painful.

[absnow54]

I may be worn down, but Bode showed some improvement today. I liked his "pterodactyl arms" take on one skier.

I'm glad he put a name to it, because as that guy was going down the mountain, he was flailing around like crazy, and you could tell that there was something not right about his technique.

[greyhorse]

Hmm, I guess I'm in the minority because I really do like Bode Miller as a commentator.  Here's a guy who has been there before and competed on the biggest stage and had gold medal success.  He knows how to get down a mountain fast.  Heck, he could probably outski some of the sorry US men's skiers still.  I find his analysis insightful, helpful, and spot on. If you're not a skier, those nuances won't mean much to you nor would you really care.  I especially like when NBC does the two skiers superimposed on each other and Bode points out what is different in the two styles that makes the faster racer better.

I always kind of liked Julia Mancuso with the tiara thing and the ugly stepchild vibe that she was given because she was always being compared to Lindsey Vonn.  But as a commentator, so far I'm not impressed.  I wrote about it in the Alpine thread, but basically when she was standing on the hill and was asked her thoughts on slalom, all she could muster was that it was hard and that there are 60 gates which means you have 60 times to mess up.  Yeah, I think even a five year old could have made that assessment.  It would have been more insightful for her to tell us how she as a professional used to prepare for slalom and how that was different than a downhill.

[absnow54]

Hmm, I guess I'm in the minority because I really do like Bode Miller as a commentator. Here's a guy who has been there before and competed on the biggest stage and had gold medal success. He knows how to get down a mountain fast. Heck, he could probably outski some of the sorry US men's skiers still. I find his analysis insightful, helpful, and spot on. If you're not a skier, those nuances won't mean much to you nor would you really care. I especially like when NBC does the two skiers superimposed on each other and Bode points out what is different in the two styles that makes the faster racer better.

I think the content of Bode's commentary is very sharp and informative. I just wish that he would write it all down, and have someone with a less flat and monotone voice read it.

[MaryMitch]

I like Bode too, and I actually like his delivery. He knows what he's talking about, he's very informative, and he doesn't distract from the competition. 

[walnutqueen]

At first I was a little taken aback by Bode's voice, but I came to appreciate it quite rapidly.  He doesn't sound flat and monotone to me; just calm and competent.  I much prefer his delivery to the histrionics other announcers seem to exhibit, and the content of his comments are nothing like the inanities spewed by others who are just trying to fill air time.

When Bode talks - I listen.  ;-)

[Ohwell]

To me, Bode's voice is flat, monotone, and his speaking style consists of a never-ending stream of "word salady" commentary.  I'm not lying when I say that I did literally scream SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP!!! when he was going on and on and on.  I agree that what he's saying is informative, but it's how he says it that makes my teeth grind.  I think it would help if he took more pauses, longer pauses in his delivery.  

[gingerella]

1 hour ago, walnutqueen said:

At first I was a little taken aback by Bode's voice, but I came to appreciate it quite rapidly.  He doesn't sound flat and monotone to me; just calm and competent.  I much prefer his delivery to the histrionics other announcers seem to exhibit, and the content of his comments are nothing like the inanities spewed by others who are just trying to fill air time.

When Bode talks - I listen.  ;-)

If we're talking histrionics, let's talk about that guy who calls the Cross Country skiing events, he sounds like he's about to bust a nut. Reminds me of that GOALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL dude with soccer...drives me nuts. Cross country skiing is a brutally difficult sport, cardiovascularly speaking, but it's also got a quietness about it. Usually it's night when they race in the Olympics, and it's just a nice atmosphere, and then that guy calls the race and I feel like I'm sitting next to 'that guy' at a little league game.

ETA: I think I mentioned this after the Opening Ceremonies but I'm not sure..As a die hard Bob Costas fan, I felt that when I first heard Mike Tirico speak - I think it was Opening Ceremonies Day - I felt somehow reassured because it seemed like he had studied Bob's cadence and was speaking with the same cadence and intonation that is so Bob Costas. I felt hopeful that I wouldn't miss Bob so much. Alas, as nice a guy as Tirico appears to be, what he lacks is the passion of sport that Bob has. Bob always did his homework and had deeper insights into each athlete he spoke about - and he highlighted non-Americans as much as, I suppose NBC would allow for. I just dont get that same passion and knowledge pool from Tirico. I'm not sure if it's just me sensing this, or if it's a thing. And I'm not sure Tirico can change or not. It seems like it wouldn't be that hard to do more homework about the athletes, known and unknown. I also dont see the funny Mary Carillo segments or the wry humorous segments of Chris Collinsworth, the stoner dude of Olympic commentating. Maybe if they paired Chris with Body, Body would appear more animated? Also, I never cared for the tiara schtick of Mancuso, and I dont care for her commentating either. Maybe the problem is that most of these folks just seem like they're winging it, no actual professional prep at all. The only commentators that seem like they actually prepare - and they do because they showed them doing so on air - are Tara and Johnny. No offense to people here of a certain age but...Is it a Millenial thing?

Edited February 16, 2018 by gingerella

[walnutqueen]

^  I miss Mary, too.  And Bob, for that matter.  :-(

[Ohwell]

Night before last, some woman skier was on the slope and Bode mentioned that being married affected a person's skiing, and he said that since the woman was married it affected her skiing.  There was dead silence for about ten seconds because the other guy (can't remember his name) didn't know what to say in response, and I think it was because he wasn't sure if Bode was joking or serious because his voice was so flat.  I still don't know.  

[BitterApple]

30 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

Night before last, some woman skier was on the slope and Bode mentioned that being married affected a person's skiing, and he said that since the woman was married it affected her skiing.  There was dead silence for about ten seconds because the other guy (can't remember his name) didn't know what to say in response, and I think it was because he wasn't sure if Bode was joking or serious because his voice was so flat.  I still don't know.  

I think it just came out wrong. I believe he was trying to say that marriage affected her skiing in the sense that when it's no longer all about you, your priorities tend to shift and your time gets divided. Of course all the snowflakes got offended and called him sexist and he had to apologize, but I don't think he meant it as a personal insult.

[Ohwell]

18 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I think it just came out wrong. I believe he was trying to say that marriage affected her skiing in the sense that when it's no longer all about you, your priorities tend to shift and your time gets divided. Of course all the snowflakes got offended and called him sexist and he had to apologize, but I don't think he meant it as a personal insult.

I didn't know there was any fallout about what he said.  I didn't think it was sexist.  He started out talking about marriage in general, not just hers, so I never thought he was speaking specifically about women being married.  My point was that his voice was so flat and monotone, I just wasn't sure he was joking or serious.  

[absnow54]

Apparently he was trying to make a joke:

Miller later said he made an ill-advised attempt at a joke. "On Valentine's Day, I did not mean to throw spouses under the bus,'' he said.

[Quickbeam]

I like Bode's commentary. Even thought I've been watching the Winter Olympics for decades on TV, I still know nothing about skiing. I felt I could follow what he was saying. He's a good explainer even if his native vocal quality isn't all that.

I really miss Bob Costas. A lot. 

[Ohwell]

36 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

Apparently he was trying to make a joke:

 

Oh well, Bode.  There's an art to being witty.  

[greyhorse]

Maybe he is a little monotone.  But what do you expect from him, is he supposed to be screaming Dick Vitale style after every turn and made gate?  I think he gets appropriately excited when he needs to be.  I also don't agree with the "word salad" description.  He is an analyst.  He is supposed to talk and tell the viewers what he is seeing and thinking about each skier.  Is he just supposed to be silent until a skier falls and then he can describe why they fell?  Hate the man if you want to, but don't hate his performance as a commentator because I think he is just what the viewers need.

[Ohwell]

1 hour ago, greyhorse said:

Maybe he is a little monotone.  But what do you expect from him, is he supposed to be screaming Dick Vitale style after every turn and made gate?  I think he gets appropriately excited when he needs to be.  I also don't agree with the "word salad" description.  He is an analyst.  He is supposed to talk and tell the viewers what he is seeing and thinking about each skier.  Is he just supposed to be silent until a skier falls and then he can describe why they fell?  Hate the man if you want to, but don't hate his performance as a commentator because I think he is just what the viewers need.

I'm entitled to my opinion of him and his commentary, as you are to yours. 

[AshleyN]

So there's been some talk of Scott Hamilton here, and being Canadian my exposure to him is fairly limited (mostly to watching Youtube videos of old skating performances). Anyways, my lasting impression of him comes from when I was re-watching Alexei Yagudin's Salt Lake City performances, where after Yagudin's free skate Hamilton tried to claim that not only would it surely go behind Evgeni Plushenko but that the REAL question was whether he would place ahead of Timothy Goebel, only for Yagudin to receive first place marks from every single judge, including four 6.0s. I mean, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he was just trying to maintain some suspense, but the idea that Timothy Goebel would ever, even on his very best day, beat a clean Yagudin is...lol.

It was fun when some time later I found a version of that skate with Canadian commentary, where they're basically marveling over him and the second it's over are all "Yep, there's your gold medalist."

Edited February 17, 2018 by AshleyN

[Silver Raven]

Mikaela Shiffrin yesterday, Lindsey Vonn today.

[MaryMitch]

Scott Hamilton and Tanith White are doing a great job with NBC's "Olympic Ice".  I think Scott is much better suited to this format than the "play by play" of the figure skating competitions. He's just a nice guy, and was never able to be critical.  I kinda miss Dick Button; he could be so snotty but he knew his stuff.