Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[statsgirl]

In other words, Barry/Patty was a much stronger relationship than Felicity/Malone because Felicity couldn't even bring herself to call Malone her boyfriend, and didn't want to even introduce him to her friends.

[SmallScreenDiva]

On a slightly different topic ...

It's around the 8:15 mark, the Supergirl director talks about having to match what Arrow does in scenes where maybe Arrow shoots first. So when Emily decided to have Felicity be wearing Oliver's jacket, that had to be matched over at the end of Supergirl. I love that EBR came up with that detail for Oliver & Felicity. 

[tennisgurl]

In the interest of the holiday season, I will now begin thinking of my favorite little moments of the crossovers. Little holiday gifts from the CW to me, the proverbial stocking stuffers of the Arrowverse. Here are a few: 

The expression on Saras face when Alex admitted that the person who was upset about breaking up with was a she. You could almost see Sara quickly texting Mick/Martin/Jax and telling them not to wait up tonight. 

The looks of total bafflement and disgust on the heroes faces whenever Evil Oliver and Evil Kara were being all couplely. Just like their brains could not even handle what they were seeing.

Jax sitting with Clarissa and Lilly at the rehearsal dinner. 

That break dance looking move Wally did when the Nazis invaded at the wedding. 

Mick taking a beer from Cisco (that he was clearly about to drink) and Cisco's confused expression. 

Barry's Captain Cold impression, and Leos reaction to it. 

Amaya putting her hand on Rays shoulder after Martins death. 

More to come! Tis the season to be Pollyanna! Anyone else have a favorite moment, large or small? 

Edited December 4, 2017 by tennisgurl

[Trini]

2 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

"Murder" is the wrong word to use in this particular context from both a legal and a factual standpoint, because it implies that Oliver deliberately killed Billy knowing that it was Billy and not Prometheus.  It would actually be involuntary manslaughter at the very worst because it was an accidental killing. Using the word "murder" to describe what Oliver did renders the word meaningless in its proper context.  If anyone was guilty of actually murdering Billy, it was Prometheus, not Oliver.  Oliver was simply the unwitting murder weapon of choice for Prometheus.  Saying that Oliver murdered Billy is like saying that the arrow through Billy's heart "murdered" him.

 

2 hours ago, WindofChange said:

This isn't true at all. Everything about Billy's scenes with Felicity screamed temporary. She didn't love him, she didn't think it was real, she wasn't in it 100%. So no, the writers didn't have Oliver inadvertently pull the trigger on Billy (thinking it was Prometheus) just to get rid of a romantic rival. They killed him to for multiple other reasons like jump starting Felicity's storyline. 

Saying the writers killed off Billy because they wanted Oliver/Felicity to get together is like saying they'd still be together now if he were still alive and they most definitely wouldn't have if you watched their scenes (considering you said you don't stick with Arrow I'm guessing that you probably haven't). 

Either way, still problematic, and I stand by my opinion.  Oliver 'Murder Weapon' Queen, mazel tov Felicity!

Edited December 4, 2017 by Trini

[Velocity23]

Didnt Iris then technically also kill a version of Barry, who wanted to kill her first. 

Edited December 4, 2017 by Velocity23

[Mellowyellow]

6 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Didnt Iris then technically also kill a version of Barry, who wanted to kill her first. 

Not technically, she shot him in the back. He totally deserved it and I was cheering. 

That Barry was an actual version of Barry with the same memories. They had him say in an episode that he remembered singing his proposal to her, has all of Barry's memories but yup he spent a season plotting to skewer Iris.

Oliver for all of his faults can't kill any version of Felicity.

Edited December 4, 2017 by Mellowyellow

[Trini]

2 hours ago, Trini said:

But character exit via murder seems typical for the show, which is why I couldn't stick with Arrow.

I don't like it. (And yes, on other shows too.) If you like the grey area, that's fine.

Edited December 4, 2017 by Trini

[Velocity23]

Just now, Mellowyellow said:

Not technically, she shot him in the back. He totally deserved it and I was cheering. 

That Barry was an actual version of Barry with the same memories. They had him say in the episode that he remembered singing his proposal to her but yup he spent a season plotting to skewer Iris.

But she still shot him. And the person she shot had the face of Barry. So everytime she looks at him she will be reminded of that fact that Barry in the future wanted her gone. 

[Mellowyellow]

Just now, Velocity23 said:

But she still shot him. And the person she shot had the face of Barry. So everytime she looks at him she will be reminded of that fact that Barry in the future wanted her gone. 

This is why I have trouble with WestAllen after that season. I like the actors and I think they're pretty cute but Barry totally wanted to murder her at some point. It was the big plot of the season.  Leaves a rather unsavoury note to put it mildly. 

[Trini]

4 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

But she still shot him. And the person she shot had the face of Barry. So everytime she looks at him she will be reminded of that fact that Barry in the future wanted her gone. 

That 'Barry in the future' doesn't (can't) exist anymore. She's fine! ?

[Mellowyellow]

No one brings it up either. Golden standard my ass! They had footage of him stabbing her in the recap every week. 

Turns out he stabbed HR instead but he did it thinning it was Iris because HE had her face *shudders*

[Mellowyellow]

It's also jarring that the only time Barry "I'm not a murderer" Allen wanted to murder someone he wanted to murder Iris.

Gawd that bothers me. 

[WindofChange]

1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

It's also jarring that the only time Barry "I'm not a murderer" Allen wanted to murder someone he wanted to murder Iris.

He'll probably murder anyone if it's in his own best interest... But he'll let a Nazi roam free to likely kill hundreds of others because it doesn't affect him right now! What a hero! Congrats Iris! You really landed a good one there.

Edited December 4, 2017 by WindofChange

[Velocity23]

Just now, Trini said:

That 'Barry in the future' doesn't (can't) exist anymore. She's fine! ?

Well technically Eobard should not exist on this show either and yet he keeps coming back. Nothing is set in stone in the future. Just like the by-line that was originally by Iris. 

You keep calling out that Oliver has killed people. Well then so did Barry and Iris. No one on Arrow is pretending Oliver didnt kill people, but there is a difference in killing someone in cold blood and being set up by a villain with a trick. And from the teases in the premiere Barry might just be set up also for killing someone. Or it will be a play/trick from Reverse Flash who played the Nazi Mengele on another world and Barry set free. 

[Velocity23]

Anyway SmoakWest is beautiful 

[InsertWordHere]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

More to come! Tis the season to be Pollyanna! Anyone else have a favorite moment, large or small? 

• Barry's "damn" when he saw Oliver in the tux.
• Snart calling Oliver Ollie and Oliver and Sara's retorts.
• Barry telling Snart that he usually just wings it and Snart's reaction.
• Just everything Snart really.
• Also, everything Mick, and his reaction to Snart's story of how Mick-X died.
• And his realization that Sara hit that. 
• Ray's Mengele moment.
• Nate's corny/awesome line.
• The Ray and Mr. Terrific's superhero names discussion.
• Felicity wearing Oliver's tuxedo jacket. 
• Felicity standing in front of Kara. 
• Diggle finally appearing after I waited 3 hours and 57 minutes for him! Also, the reminder that he is the number one Olicity shipper.
• Paul Blackthorne's performance of Lance-X. Even though it was hard to watch, it was hard to watch because he was so good at it.
• Felicity recollecting that she once tracked a serial killer with face cream. 
• The amount time they allowed for everyone's reaction to Stein's death. Some shows might have just glossed over it, especially in a busy crossover. 
• Oliver and Kara fistbumping instead of hugging.

I have more but this is getting long. I feel like I'm missing some Cisco and Harry moments. 

[Mellowyellow]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

That break dance looking move Wally did when the Nazis invaded at the wedding. 

Are you talking about when he caught the bullets? Because that was such an AWESOME stunt!!!!!!! One of the best stunts of the crossover for me!

[BkWurm1]

Cisco's face smushed against the glass wall in his cell while passed out.

[bijoux]

3 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Cisco's face smushed against the glass wall in his cell while passed out.

Wells annoying him.

25 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Are you talking about when he caught the bullets? Because that was such an AWESOME stunt!!!!!!! One of the best stunts of the crossover for me!

That was cool, particularly the way he sent the bullet back into the rifle and it exploded.

Speaking of KL, he was also at Berlanti's wedding, as was CP.

[Miss Dee]

Good Lord, bearded GG is, like, ten million times hotter than non-bearded GG. Want Oliver to whistle "Damn" when you walk out in a tux, Barry? Keep the facial fuzz.

[bettername2come]

6 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

More to come! Tis the season to be Pollyanna! Anyone else have a favorite moment, large or small? 

* Barry's reaction to watching Sara and Alex doing shots.

* Kara and Iris hug

* "I'm actually incapable of talking about anything else"

* Singh sitting next to Mick Rory 

* Wally throws the bullet back in the gun

* Oliver jumps through a breach firing an arrow

*Supergirl's sonic clap

* Oliver talking to Evil Tommy

* Oliver needing 2 minutes in the middle of Nazis to discuss why Felicity won't marry him

* Iris and Felicity dropping from the ceiling, hitting Nazis in the face, and bumping guns

* Iris and Felicity carrying Kara

* Felicity refusing to give up Kara, Kara refusing to let Felicity die for her

* Felicity's speech to Evil Oliver, while protecting Kara again

* Olicity kiss while he's in the suit

* "General, care to step outside?"

* Killer Frost, Amaya and Zari floating on ice onto the ship together and kicking ass

* Susanna Thompson voice cameo

* "Mitt's off, Mengele!"

* Snart

* Rory

* My couples are married!

[BkWurm1]

6 hours ago, bijoux said:

Wells annoying him.

 

Wells annoying him also annoying the B team.  Wells' use of a ball beats Curtis'

[Cleanqueen]

7 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

Anyway SmoakWest is beautiful 

The caption should be "Out on the town with bae while the hubbies stay home taking care of the kids"

[tv echo]

LoT panel at HVFF-San Jose yesterday - I only transcribed a few bits, but this whole panel was good (especially the ending comments by BR)...

-- Funniest part of this panel (imo) was when CL joked about the number of times Sara has died and then come back. She and BR then both joked about Sara and Laurel having another sister - an evil twin that Quentin kept secret. BR then dubbed her: "Gray Canary."

-- Biggest "eyeroll" question, but great panel responses. Fan asked both BR and CL, as their characters, to choose between Felicity and Hawkgirl. BR said, "Felicity," because he thought she was a better match for Ray and because their story got more development than the Ray/Kendra storyline. Same question to CL, who also picked Felicity because then Sara could go up to Oliver and go, "Yo, I got your girl."

-- CL was very upset about the elimination of Baby Sara, who was named after Sara.

Heroes & Villains Fan Fest San Jose 2017: DC Legends of Tomorrow Panel
Published on Dec 2, 2017, by steven alvarez

Edited December 4, 2017 by tv echo

[jay741982]

1 hour ago, Cleanqueen said:

The caption should be "Out on the town with bae while the hubbies stay home taking care of the kids"

Hahaha Yes! 

[Aeryn13]

Quote

More to come! Tis the season to be Pollyanna! Anyone else have a favorite moment, large or small? 

So many fun moments in the x-over.

That entire church fight was awesome, with everyone getting a moment to shine. But Mick going "best wedding ever" in the aftermath was a riot. 

Iris going "you got to be kidding me", then Oliver`s confuzzled "Nazis?", followed by Kara, Barry and Ollie simultenaously going "I hate Nazis."

Kara`s big grin when Sara revealed the one-night stand. Alex` almost panicky "do you know what I did" and Kara laughing "not the specifics, no."  Gold. 

Oliver being Batman by having a Kryptonite arrow. Ahahahaha.

Everything Snart. 

Barry`s "Snart"-like dialogue. 

Atom`s entrance. 

Evil!Lance` test with X-Felicity. Damn, that guy was dastardly. And there was no way to win, too.

The aftermath of Stein`s death. We saw the relevant people taking a moment to grieve. Ray looking at their Western picture. Sniffle, I, too have allergies.

Barry`s  "Fewer Nazis that way" in deciding to just get a Justice of the Peace. 

Fantastic casting and spot-on portrayal for possibly Dawn Allen.   

Metallo getting smashed by their combined powers.  

The musical cues throughout. The slow-mo walk scene and the Metallo-destructo scene were especially memorable. 

Also, when X-Tommy was revealed they played the same piece of music as when original Tommy died. 

I wasn`t that convinced plot-wise but the entire x-over was peppered with fantastic little moments for all the characters.    

[tv echo]

They better finish up The Ray pretty fast...

[tv echo]

[Delphi]

9 hours ago, InsertWordHere said:

•  

I have more but this is getting long. I feel like I'm missing some Cisco and Harry moments. 

• Everything involving The Ray and Leo Snart.  Literally everything. 
• "I have a Maggie too."  Yeah you do Sara,  it's too bad Katrina is so busy with all her success. 

Edited December 4, 2017 by Delphi

[tennisgurl]

More moments:

"You hit that?" *smacks upside the head* "shut up". 

Zari got a costume because she didn't want to be the only one without one! 

Earth X Winn is badass and ridiculously hot. 

"Tell Ronnie I miss him" 

Mick trying to scare Killer Frost into coming out. 

Ray cheerfully asking Iris about the wedding after kicking the crap out of several Nazis. 

Mick thinking that Leo is another Snart hallucination. 

Lance X and his gambit against Oliver. The guy was all kinds of scary. 

Ray riding on one of Curtis's flying balls (heh). 

Cisco creating a portal for Oliver to jump through at the wedding.

Oliver's portable bow and arrow set. 

When Martin was about to talk to Jax and Caitlin and Harry leave the room, Caitlin practically drags Harry out "This isn't about you".

[Velocity23]

Supergirl sneak peaks

[statsgirl]

For me the best thing was that the show made it clear that our heroes are heroes.  And that finally Iris and Felicity got to be action heroes too.

When did GG have time to grow a beard?  Isn't Flash still shooting?

Re the Supergirl preview:  Mon El forming the Legion because he was inspired by Supergirl was too saccharine for me.

5 hours ago, tv echo said:

-- Funniest part of this panel (imo) was when CL joked about the number of times Sara has died and then come back. She and BR then both joked about Sara and Laurel having another sister - an evil twin that Quentin kept secret. BR then dubbed her: "Gray Canary."

Book it!  Is her name Dinah Sara Lance?

14 hours ago, Trini said:

But character exit via murder seems typical for the show, which is why I couldn't stick with Arrow.

As opposed to character exit via suicide (Eddie) or disgust at the hero's dishonesty (Patty).  Have to get rid of those barriers to the OTP somehow.

You can call it murder but that doesn't make it so.

14 hours ago, Trini said:

That 'Barry in the future' doesn't (can't) exist anymore. She's fine! ?

That Barry in the future may be gone but now we know that the Barry in the present has the potential for it.

[ruby24]

We're speculating on GG's beard over in the Flash forum.

He did an ig story last week acknowledging that he has the beard because he's not working. Apparently he didn't film all last week, but the rest of the cast did. So yeah, no idea what's going on, but I guess Barry must not be in much of episode 12. 

What's weird is that I'm pretty sure he had the scruff during the filming of episode 11 too, he's had it for a while now. And coincidentally, he's also had a lot more time off recently while the rest of the cast has been filming, so I don't know. Some people think Barry's been arrested and they're doing the famous Trial of the Flash storyline, so he's growing a beard in jail or something. 

[Velocity23]

Didnt Grant mention in an interview with comicbook. com that things will turn dark on the Flash in the middle of the year? 

[way2interested]

I love listening to video essays on tv and movies, and this one came up which I thought was actually pretty spot-on (and articulated beyond "x was great" and "y sucks")

 

It also made me realize that this year's crossover (unlike the others) didn't interrupt the other shows' stories and actually embraced them (to an extent, as in the relationship dynamics from the crossover stemmed from plots going on their own separate shows already) and used them as the emotional support for the 4 episodes, which I think was one of the keys to why it worked out so well this year.

[Morrigan2575]

51 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Didnt Grant mention in an interview with comicbook. com that things will turn dark on the Flash in the middle of the year? 

What? Is Barry going to try and Kill Iris again?! 

[quarks]

16 minutes ago, way2interested said:

It also made me realize that this year's crossover (unlike the others) didn't interrupt the other shows' stories and actually embraced them (to an extent, as in the relationship dynamics from the crossover stemmed from plots going on their own separate shows already) and used them as the emotional support for the 4 episodes, which I think was one of the keys to why it worked out so well this year.

Also, one thing I genuinely liked is that, unlike last year, where the crossovers really didn't seem to make much of an impact on any of the individual shows (except maybe in allowing Team Legends to recognize aliens this year, but...you know, I kinda think that even Team Legends could have worked that out eventually), this time, the crossovers did impact three shows in a big way - making it seem less like "hey, this is a cool team up thing" and more "hey, these are also important character moments."

[SmallScreenDiva]

This crossover put Oliver & Felicity at the center of the emotional stories, so that in itself was going to be a plus for me. What I didn't expect was how much I'd get invested in characters I didn't usually watch -- Kara/Alex (although, TBH, it really was Alex's story), Jax/Stein. I think that's what made the crossover work for me, unlike in the past where I didn't have an emotional stake in them.

[Velocity23]

Quote

"Yeah," Gustin said. "Again, what I touched on earlier, why Barry's starting to get obsessed that this is our guy, he realizes that it's going to get dirty quick, and before it gets dirty he wants to get ahead of this guy. And then they start to realize what a challenging foe he's going to be and different than any other speedsters we've faced in the past. He's not a speedster, he's something we've never seen before. Things are going to take a dark turn quickly in the middle of the year."

But even with the darker turn coming and Barry's DeVoe obsession being a little challenging for Team Flash, Gustin says that Team Flash is in a good place this season and will get through things with a minimum of issues, at least regarding team work.

"Again, Barry is trying his best to mature and I think a lot of it is happening naturally, so we'll see them start to butt heads," Gustin said. "He's still Barry and he's hot-headed and when he's sure he's right, he's stubborn. But the team is in a good place this year so we're not going to see any massive hiccups with the team at this point in the season. They'll recover."

http://comicbook.com/dc/2017/11/08/the-flash-season-4-grant-gustin-the-thinker/

[tennisgurl]

So, basically Grant is saying "its going to get dark again but its not as bad as last year PLEASE DONT BE MAD AT US!" more or less. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Since when is Barry hot-headed????

[JamieLynn832002]

I don't get that either. The part about being stubborn when he's sure he's right I can see but not the hot-headed. He can be impulsive but, other than when affected by Rainbow Raider in season 1, never what I'd consider hot-headed. 

[statsgirl]

I thought "hot-headed" did mean impulsive.  He gets an idea and carries it through without looking at the risks and possible outcomes, even against advice.

[JamieLynn832002]

I guess it does, I've just always seen it used more for the quick-tempered definition.

[catrox14]

Well, shit. That was a lot of stuff in Supergirl tonight

Lena and Jimmy RME W/E

Reign destroys Kara.

Honestly, totally expected Lena and Jimmy. Didn't expect Reign to beat the crap out of Kara

[JamieLynn832002]

I expected Jimmy/Lena but not this quickly. I knew Reign kind of had to win for now but I was also surprised by just how badly they had her beat Kara. I don't understand why neither J'onn or Mon-El made any attempt to intervene. 

[ruby24]

How is that she's bleeding though?

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, JamieLynn832002 said:

I expected Jimmy/Lena but not this quickly. I knew Reign kind of had to win for now but I was also surprised by just how badly they had her beat Kara. I don't understand why neither J'onn or Mon-El made any attempt to intervene. 

Yup, I didn't understand that either.

Just now, ruby24 said:

How is that she's bleeding though?

Reign is just that powerful?

[statsgirl]

Shouldn't Supergirl have beaten Reign though?  She's been fighting for over two years now while Reign just started.

I agree that it was stupid not to have J'onn and Mon El there to help her.  Wasn't the DEO even monitoring the fight?

[catrox14]

9 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Shouldn't Supergirl have beaten Reign though?  She's been fighting for over two years now while Reign just started.

I agree that it was stupid not to have J'onn and Mon El there to help her.  Wasn't the DEO even monitoring the fight?

Could this have all been Reign's fever dream? Like maybe when her daughter woke up and saw her in that state on Christmas morning, that she was having visions of beating Kara and none of that actually happened? It seemed kind of surreal to me. Like maybe that's why Kara was bleeding because it's what Reign saw?

Edited December 5, 2017 by catrox14