Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[Midnight Lullaby]

I'm honestly surprised in a good way they are going with a mature way to solve their issues. They could have written them hiding their feelings, lying..drama..which I find fits the "soap opera" idea more than something like that.

Edited September 7, 2017 by Midnight Lullaby

[lemotomato]

Says a lot about their relationship when the one time Iris holds her ground against Barry instead of just unequivocally supporting him they need to seek professional help. 

[Velocity23]

Violett Beane cast in a new FOX show

[tv echo]

[Cleanqueen]

1 hour ago, ruby24 said:

Iris being mad at Joe was one episode and that was it. 

Which should've been longer, but this was caused by Barry in the first place so they had to forgive Barry in the first place.

 

They should've sold the counselling as something they need to deal with after the events of everything that iris went through last year and having her fiance gone for 6 months and her picking up the pieces. Instead they're selling it us man child Barry having an issue that his fiance liking to be in charge. I dont think she had a choice here, she was forced to be in charge to pick up the pieces.  

[ruby24]

Well, that probably has to do with the fact that it's going to be used for comedic effect.

[SmallScreenDiva]

So the Speed Force will pretty much cleanse Barry of his selfishness and douchery? LMAO. These Arrowverse writers really don't know how to write character growth, do they? It's like "we need our heroes to be in A frame of mind in episode 1 of the season so they can get to B frame of mind by the MSF, then C in finale." Which is how we got Oliver being "optimistic" in Season 5 despite having part of his city destroyed, an ex dead, his team gone and his love life in shambles after Season 4. 

[calliope1975]

23 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

Well, that probably has to do with the fact that it's going to be used for comedic effect.

That jumped out at me and not in a good way. All of the very real problems WA have had and will have and the way to address it is just jokes? I'm glad I quit this show last year. 

[Miss Dee]

2 hours ago, Chaser said:

Plot twist: At the end of the season, Barry changes time and WA never got married. They end the season broken up.

WHY WOULD YOU PUT THIS INTO THE UNIVERSE?!!

Please, take it back!! ?

[wonderwall]

15 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

That jumped out at me and not in a good way. All of the very real problems WA have had and will have and the way to address it is just jokes? I'm glad I quit this show last year. 

Well for at least the both of us the couple is a joke so... it fits the bill ;)

[apinknightmare]

2 hours ago, Chaser said:

Plot twist: At the end of the season, Barry changes time and WA never got married. They end the season broken up.

And then Barry tries so desperately to get her back that he basically obliterates everyone from existing, and the last vision of the Arrowverse is Barry standing on a charred earth, alone. 

[wonderwall]

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

And then Barry tries so desperately to get her back that he basically obliterates everyone from existing, and the last vision of the Arrowverse is Barry standing on a charred earth, alone. 

This intensified very quickly

[calliope1975]

2 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

This intensified very quickly

But that's a pretty good season ending cliffhanger!

[apinknightmare]

15 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

This intensified very quickly

I mean...he would though!

[wonderwall]

10 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I mean...he would though!

And then season 5 starts wiht Barry going to another world he hasn't fucked up and then proceeds to fuck it up.

[Velocity23]

[catrox14]

3 hours ago, tv echo said:

Well, that's....not ...good

[Primal Slayer]

1 hour ago, Velocity23 said:

And they have the potential to be spun off.

[Mellowyellow]

Yiiikes! Her acting is terrible.

She looks so much like Leighton Meester in that picture though.

[Starfish35]

I do not recall either Alan Ritchson or Minka Kelly being very good actors, but to be fair it's been a while since I've seen them in anything. Longer for Alan Ritchson - I don't think I've seen him in anything since Smallville.  Minka Kelly - I think it was Almost Human, so not that long ago.

[statsgirl]

6 hours ago, ruby24 said:

Perhaps. I think the longest one ever was Cisco because of what happened to Dante. Be that as it may, it's definitely the case, though. No West family conflict has ever lasted long, Wally being jealous of Barry in the beginning was very short-lived, Iris being mad at Joe was one episode and that was it. It's how they roll over there.

A big reason why I get so fed up with Barry, no one is allowed to be angry at the special snowflake for long and so there is never any real growth because of natural consequences.  Patty dumped his sorry ass but that was okay since he didn't care about her anyway.

Iris should have been allowed to be furious at Joe for lying to her for years about her mother, but Barry's specialness extends to him too.

Quote

“Barry and Iris keep comically clashing inadvertently because she’s used to being in charge, and he’s used to being in charge, and so they wind up going to couples therapy to work through it,” executive producer Andrew Kreisberg tells EW. “The two of them with the therapist is some of the funniest stuff we have ever done on this show, but it also leads to a deepening of their relationship.”

In theory, this could be funny with two characters who are equal but I'm sure that it's going to end up with Iris stepping back because she'll come to realize how special Barry is and I'm gonna rage.  (Again, if at the end Iris is allowed to be the head of the Team I'll reconsider my position.)

In contrast, David Ramsey said at FanExpo

Quote

-- DR: "What I really like about the show... what I like is, Felicity at the helm. Right? At the computers. And she can be there with Curtis now. Whatever... And the team out doing their thing. They meet a big brick wall. 'Felicity, we need you to move it.' She hits the [unintelligible word] button... The wall moves. We go in there. We do our Mission Impossible thing. And that's the fun of the show, I think... Just a street-level, braniac over here sitting on her remote-control thing, and we go out and we kick butt... And that to me is Arrow." 

That's why I like Arrow -- Felicity is allowed to be strong and to be her own person independent from Oliver.

[lemotomato]

13 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

That's why I like Arrow -- Felicity is allowed to be strong and to be her own person independent from Oliver.

As much as I would like more spoilers about the state of Olicity in season 6, I love that what little news we have about Felicity are about her company, her nemesis (Helix), and another potential storyline in 6B that's all her own, not Team Arrow or Oliver related. Arrow might not always succeed, but it has made an effort at giving Felicity independent character development. That's more than I can say about Flash, who can't ever mention Iris without immediately following up with how whatever's going on with her will affect Barry.

[wonderwall]

7 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

As much as I would like more spoilers about the state of Olicity in season 6, I love that what little news we have about Felicity are about her company, her nemesis (Helix), and another potential storyline in 6B that's all her own, not Team Arrow or Oliver related. Arrow might not always succeed, but it has made an effort at giving Felicity independent character development.

This is what it looks like when a group of writers respect and love a character :)

Edited September 8, 2017 by wonderwall

[Chaser]

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Well, that's....not ...good

Well I figure the blush is either second hand embarrassment over WestAllen or....Olicity gets caught fooling around at the wedding. 

Or both.

7 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

As much as I would like more spoilers about the state of Olicity in season 6, I love that what little news we have about Felicity are about her company, her nemesis (Helix), and another potential storyline in 6B that's all her own, not Team Arrow or Oliver related. Arrow might not always succeed, but it has made an effort at giving Felicity independent character development. That's more than I can say about Flash, who can't ever mention Iris without immediately following up with how whatever's going on with her will affect Barry.

So true.

What I love to is that Felicity is so ingrained with Oliver and the Team, they have put in thought to get her away for her own storyline. She's that important. In contrast, with Laurel they had the opposite problem. They had to work harder at making her matter to Oliver and Team.

[Trini]

Flash Relationships thread;

6 hours ago, wonderwall said:

So... Iris/Barry have to go through couples therapy because Iris has taken more control of her team and has more power? And Iris basically becoming the team leader is devolved into a WA storyline?

39 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

In theory, this could be funny with two characters who are equal but I'm sure that it's going to end up with Iris stepping back because she'll come to realize how special Barry is and I'm gonna rage.  (Again, if at the end Iris is allowed to be the head of the Team I'll reconsider my position.)

All the spoiler says is that they have an issue and they are taking steps together to resolve it. We are going to get Iris' POV, so I'm not going to interpret this in the worst way possible. Also this confirms that she's not the team leader "for one episode".

---

I still feel that there's some twist coming with this crossover wedding (which they STILL haven't said is Barry and Iris'); so I'm still not ready to celebrate yet.

[ruby24]

1 minute ago, Trini said:

---

I still feel that there's some twist coming with this crossover wedding (which they STILL haven't said is Barry and Iris'); so I'm still not ready to celebrate yet.

Okay, I think we should probably be ready to call it as this point. DR confirmed there's a wedding in the crossover. AK confirmed Barry and Iris are definitely getting married this season. I think it's happening.

[lemotomato]

5 minutes ago, Trini said:

Flash Relationships thread;

All the spoiler says is that they have an issue and they are taking steps together to resolve it. We are going to get Iris' POV, so I'm not going to interpret this in the worst way possible. Also this confirms that she's not the team leader "for one episode".

AK is quite clear about what their issue is:

Quote

“Barry and Iris keep comically clashing inadvertently because she’s used to being in charge, and he’s used to being in charge, and so they wind up going to couples therapy to work through it,” executive producer Andrew Kreisberg tells EW. 

Sounds like they have problems about who's in charge!

[Guest]

I'm still confused as to why DR (and to an extent SA) would tease WA's wedding to a bunch of Olicity/Arrow fans at that con a while back. LOL. It's so weird. I know he kind of backtracked at the latest con, but still...I am confusion. ?

But I don't think anyone can deny that WA's wedding is happening tbh. AK confirmed it. It's what happens after that seems to be up in the air, IMO.

[Sakura12]

Iris getting her a POV. Hahahaha she didn't get a POV in her own death storyline or her mother being alive storyline. I don't see how she'll get a POV in the Barry's the Flash therefore the team leader storyline. She'll most likely get her usual line or two about it then everything will be all about Barry and what he wants or needs. 

Cisco basically forgave Barry because Barry said he can't change the timeline back so just get over it and move on. When everything that's happened on the entire series is because Barry can't just move on from his mother's death. 

[Trini]

On 9/7/2017 at 10:18 PM, Sakura12 said:

Iris getting her a POV. Hahahaha she didn't get a POV in her own death storyline or her mother being alive storyline. I don't see how she'll get a POV in the Barry's the Flash therefore the team leader storyline. She'll most likely get her usual line or two about it then everything will be all about Barry and what he wants or needs. 

Cisco basically forgave Barry because Barry said he can't change the timeline back so just get over it and move on. When everything that's happened on the entire series is because Barry can't just move on from his mother's death. 

Wow -- that's all untrue.

Edited September 11, 2017 by Trini

[BkWurm1]

55 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I'm still confused as to why DR (and to an extent SA) would tease WA's wedding to a bunch of Olicity/Arrow fans at that con a while back. LOL. It's so weird. I know he kind of backtracked at the latest con, but still...I am confusion. ?

But I don't think anyone can deny that WA's wedding is happening tbh. AK confirmed it. It's what happens after that seems to be up in the air, IMO.

We don't know that the first wedding they teased wasn't still about Olicity, but just not in the crossover, which works for me.  

54 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Iris getting her a POV. Hahahaha she didn't get a POV in her own death storyline or her mother being alive storyline. I don't see how she'll get a POV in the Barry's the Flash therefore the team leader storyline. She'll most likely get her usual line or two about it then everything will be all about Barry and what he wants or needs. 

Cisco basically forgave Barry because Barry said he can't change the timeline back so just get over it and move on. When everything that's happened on the entire series is because Barry can't just move on from his mother's death. 

Cisco finally forgave Barry after the crossover because he too played with the timeline and faced unexpected consequences (basically got the aliens to invade the planet, OOPS!)

But I do agree that Iris while maybe having a PoV in the above mentioned things, didnt' get to be the lead in her own stories.  The thing with her mom was just terrible.  I still can't believe they used Iris finding out her father lied to her about her mom being dead all these years to set up a storyline for her dad and Wally and occasionally Barry.  She didn't even get asked if Wally could move in.  Barry did though.  And all Iris was allowed to do with her impending death was cheer on Barry or Wally to save her!  She got to worry and be afraid or be rash and reckless but she wasn't even allowed to help track down the scientist that could stop Savitar.  She was just left out of so much.  They finally allowed her to shoot Savitar but first she had to try and offer to be BFF's with him.  

[Chaser]

I still believe Olicity is getting married. The crossover was always iffy. 

[Mellowyellow]

Huh? I'm confused! I thought EBR, SA and DR all teased an Olicity marriage. Nothing to do with the crossover.

Has something new come out?

SA signed a pic saying "This time it's for real" didn't he?

[BkWurm1]

4 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Huh? I'm confused! I thought EBR, SA and DR all teased an Olicity marriage. Nothing to do with the crossover.

Has something new come out?

SA signed a pic saying "This time it's for real" didn't he?

Was it "this" time or "Next" time?  Still, yeah, the tease happened with no crossover talk involved.  

[LeighAn]

10 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Huh? I'm confused! I thought EBR, SA and DR all teased an Olicity marriage. Nothing to do with the crossover.

Has something new come out?

SA signed a pic saying "This time it's for real" didn't he?

Yeah Stephen David and Emily specifically teased a wedding on Arrow and Olicity marriage. 

 

I'm just glad that they aren't the crossover wedding. WA enjoy your cramped into a crossover wedding :P 

[Trini]

I hope with this year's crossover they can have some good scenes/moments with characters who don't normally get interact - but really should because they have things in common, or similar personalities, or completely opposite personalities! I'd like to see Oliver/Joe (talking about fatherhood?), Iris/Kara (journalism), Alex/Diggle (strategies, how to deal with weird stuff, favorite guns), Winn/Cisco (PLOT TWIST - they end up antagonizing each other because they're so similar), and Cat Grant/Capt. Cold just because. :)

What other pairing or scenes do you all want to see in the crossover?

[GHScorpiosRule]

11 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Cisco basically forgave Barry because Barry said he can't change the timeline back so just get over it and move on.

That didn't happen. Cisco forgave Barry after he realized his saving that one Dominator Alien had bad repercussions, same thing that happened with Barry. And he said as much when Barry was getting ready to sacrifice himself and turn himself over to the aliens. This happened in last season's crossover.

8 hours ago, Trini said:

Oliver/Joe (talking about fatherhood?), Iris/Kara (journalism), Alex/Diggle (strategies, how to deal with weird stuff, favorite guns), Winn/Cisco (PLOT TWIST - they end up antagonizing each other because they're so similar), and Cat Grant/Capt. Cold just because. :)

A big FAT NO! to Oliver and Joe; PUH-LEAZE. Kara knows jack squat about journalism. Show should have given her another career instead of again stealing/ripping off giving her skills/stories that are Clark's/Superman's. I would think Winn and Cisco would geek out together, and a HELL YEAH! to Cat and Michael Cold.

[Cleanqueen]

I'd like an Oliver and Joe conversation to start with Joe apologizing to Oliver and all the times he's misjudged him and called him names. Then they can have him offering Oliver some advice on fatherhood.

I want a scene with Winn/Cisco/Felicity-those three would be a hoot.

[Sakura12]

I do remember Barry telling the team to get over what he did though. Which was a dick move since he can't move on from his mother's death. 

Oliver should never take fathering advice from Joe. When Wally showed up that pissed me off so much to see Joe whining to Barry (his foster son) that he always wanted a son, because apparently he couldn't throw a football around with his daughter. Don't even get me started on what he said to Eddie. 

[LeighAn]

3 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

I'd like an Oliver and Joe conversation to start with Joe apologizing to Oliver and all the times he's misjudged him and called him names. Then they can have him offering Oliver some advice on fatherhood.

I want a scene with Winn/Cisco/Felicity-those three would be a hoot.

Correction: All the times Joe called him a mass murder and talked down on him to make his special snow flake Barry look good even though he either didn't know Oliver or barely knew him. 

[wonderwall]

I'd like to see:

• Felicity/Cisco/Winn as the tech squad
• Diggle/Alex idk why, but I feel like they'd get along well
• Barry/Oliver/Felicity or a variation fo two because I've always liked their interactions. They make Barry tolerable.
• Iris/Felicity (because obvs she'll be a bridesmaid right? lol)

I'm honestly not sure what the supporting cast's roles will be in the crossover since relationships are a big part of it. I'm  trying to figure this out to sorta guess how many shows these characters will cross over to.

• Felicity: Part of the Tech Squad and have her scenes with Oliver for the romantic aspect (4 shows)
• Cisco: Part of the Tech Squad (4 shows)
• Diggle: Part of the fighting team and have scenes w/ Lyla (I think she's in the crossover too) (4 shows)
• Dinah/Curtis/Rene: Part of the fighting team (1 show)
• Alex: will have her sisterly scenes with Kara (1 show)
• Iris: Get married (1-2 shows)
• Caitlin: Maybe show up as killer frost? (1 show)
• Winn: Part of the Tech Squad (1-3 shows?)
• Joe: Will attend the wedding and give Barry/Iris fatherly advice I guess? (1 show)

[SmallScreenDiva]

I really am not a fan of the split between fighters and tech squad so I hope there's not that delineation in these crossovers. Mix them up. Put some tech folks and fighters together in the group missions. I hate that Felicity gets left behind in this and I see way too much of Sara with Oliver and Diggle (as was the case in the last crossovers, which I hated).

• Give me Oliver/Felicity/Barry (because their friendship is fun to watch)
• Oliver/Diggle/Barry (so Diggle can smack Barry for erasing the Digglette; Oliver can try and stop him)
• Diggle/Joe/Stein (they can talk about what it's like to be the adults)
• Felicity/Iris/Kara (because I think they'd have a fun dynamic)
• Felicity/Barry/Kara (because they're sunshine)
• Felicity/Ray/Oliver (because I like Oliver being jealous of Ray and Felicity/Ray have a fun exes vibe)

[Oreo2234]

Quote

I'm honestly not sure what the supporting cast's roles will be in the crossover since relationships are a big part of it. I'm  trying to figure this out to sorta guess how many shows these characters will cross over to.

Felicity: Part of the Tech Squad and have her scenes with Oliver for the romantic aspect (4 shows)

Cisco: Part of the Tech Squad (4 shows)

Diggle: Part of the fighting team and have scenes w/ Lyla (I think she's in the crossover too) (4 shows)

Dinah/Curtis/Rene: Part of the fighting team (1 show)

Alex: will have her sisterly scenes with Kara (1 show)

Iris: Get married (1-2 shows)

Caitlin: Maybe show up as killer frost? (1 show)

Winn: Part of the Tech Squad (1-3 shows?)

Joe: Will attend the wedding and give Barry/Iris fatherly advice I guess? (1 show)

Kreisberg implied that Alex would be in all 4 shows though that could be him exaggerating as he tends to do. I assume Winn will probably cross over too but if Mon-el is back then he might take priority. 

Edited September 8, 2017 by Oreo2234

[wonderwall]

24 minutes ago, Oreo2234 said:

if Mon-el is back then he might take priority. 

No thanks.

[way2interested]

27 minutes ago, Oreo2234 said:

Kreisberg implied that Alex would be in all 4 shows though that could be him exaggerating as he tends to do.

Yeah, I took what he said to mean that Alex would at least crossover, but his quote about Alex and Kara's relationship being "at the center of the whole thing" made me side-eye his whole answer since that's exactly what the Flash EPs said about Iris' role in the musical episode.

[statsgirl]

I can't see Alex being all that significant if Mon El is back.  Kreisberg plays his favourites and Mon El is superher/love interest/male lead all wrapped up in one CW stamped  ball.

2 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I really am not a fan of the split between fighters and tech squad so I hope there's not that delineation in these crossovers. Mix them up. Put some tech folks and fighters together in the group missions. I hate that Felicity gets left behind in this and I see way too much of Sara with Oliver and Diggle (as was the case in the last crossovers, which I hated).

• Give me Oliver/Felicity/Barry (because their friendship is fun to watch)
• Oliver/Diggle/Barry (so Diggle can smack Barry for erasing the Digglette; Oliver can try and stop him)
• Diggle/Joe/Stein (they can talk about what it's like to be the adults)
• Felicity/Iris/Kara (because I think they'd have a fun dynamic)
• Felicity/Barry/Kara (because they're sunshine)
• Felicity/Ray/Oliver (because I like Oliver being jealous of Ray and Felicity/Ray have a fun exes vibe)

ITA completely.  The constant fighters vs comic-relief tech squad is making the crossovers boring in spite of whatever brilliant new idea they think they've come up with.

 

3 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I do remember Barry telling the team to get over what he did though. Which was a dick move since he can't move on from his mother's death. 

Oliver should never take fathering advice from Joe. When Wally showed up that pissed me off so much to see Joe whining to Barry (his foster son) that he always wanted a son, because apparently he couldn't throw a football around with his daughter. Don't even get me started on what he said to Eddie. 

The idea that Joe is a good father is one of the gaslighting things The Flash does.   He's a great father to Barry, his non-bio kid. And he's a pretty good dad to Wally.  But Iris gets a backplace

Although since Oliver has a son and not a daughter, maybe his advice wouldn't be so bad.

Edited September 8, 2017 by statsgirl

[Oreo2234]

Quote

Yeah, I took what he said to mean that Alex would at least crossover, but his quote about Alex and Kara's relationship being "at the center of the whole thing" made me side-eye his whole answer since that's exactly what the Flash EPs said about Iris' role in the musical episode.

Yeah the crossover certainly isn't going to center around the two of them, at most they will both be present in most/all the episodes with Kara obviously playing a much larger part. 

Quote

I can't see Alex being all that significant if Mon El is back.  Kreisberg plays his favourites and Mon El is superher/love interest/male lead all wrapped up in one ball.

IMO Alex absolutely should be more important than Mon-el but TPTB are in love with him so of the Supergirl crew he will get the biggest role besides Kara if he's back on earth. 

Edited September 8, 2017 by Oreo2234

[Sunshine]

Anyone remember Arrow 5.04? It was sold by the writer as a really big Oliver/Diggle relationship episode. There was very little Diggle in the episode. It was about breaking Diggle out of jail because Oliver couldn't lose him. Same thing could happen with Alex/Kara. Something happens with Alex in 1. Kara talks not stop about it in 2 & 3 to other characters (or it's her motivation).It works itself out and everything is resolved in 4.  Whatever their thing is (I quit watching mid S2) could be part of all 4 shows without Alex being in all 4 except for Previously On.

[Velocity23]

It could be problematic to do the Kara/Alex storyline in the crossover. Especially if they reference Supergirl plotlines from previous episodes or even season. At least last year with Barry/Cisco the consequences of Barrys action that resulted in the Flashpoint impacted  the three shows on Earth 1. Its always been obvious that not everybody who watches one show watches all other show that will be part of the crossover. 

[bijoux]

How did Flashpoint affect LoT?