S07.E05: HIGH HOPES

[GreatKazu]

Right. I think productivity is the key. It wasn't as if Maci needed a break from anything. There was certainly nothing she was doing that she needed a break. It is like how C&T and Amber sound when they blabber on about needing vacation time. Vacation from what exactly? 

[ReadMeLattice]

On 12/26/2017 at 11:41 AM, ginger90 said:

I think Twitter and such have influenced both Cate and Tyler as far as the adoption. The comments they get are insane.

This! The comments they get are mind blowing. I truly had no idea so many people believed such ludicrous things about adoption. 

[WhosThatGirl]

6 hours ago, GreatKazu said:

Right. I think productivity is the key. It wasn't as if Maci needed a break from anything. There was certainly nothing she was doing that she needed a break. It is like how C&T and Amber sound when they blabber on about needing vacation time. Vacation from what exactly? 

This. Like the special they aired Monday night and they’re all like “a kid free vacation to Greece!” Like all their other vacations?

Have we seen Maci Cate or Amber take their kids on a vacation? I can’t rexall. I know Farrah has. At least once. That vacation with David and her mother and Sophia. Also there have been others and they’re going to Italy in next weeks episode but I can’t recall if the other moms have taken their kids anywhere. At least on the show.

[GreatKazu]

4 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

This. Like the special they aired Monday night and they’re all like “a kid free vacation to Greece!” Like all their other vacations?

Have we seen Maci Cate or Amber take their kids on a vacation? I can’t rexall. I know Farrah has. At least once. That vacation with David and her mother and Sophia. Also there have been others and they’re going to Italy in next weeks episode but I can’t recall if the other moms have taken their kids anywhere. At least on the show.

Maci can't take Bentley on vacation because it would mean she would have to watch him and that means it would get in the way of her drinking and going to bars. 

[ghoulina]

15 hours ago, Tatum said:

Did Farrah ever really even go out that much? I honestly can't remember. I remember one or two guys she dated in the first season, and then the guy she briefly called a boyfriend who dumped her after she insulted his friends, his stepmother, and his hometown, but I don't remember her really going out much. I think this had less to do with being responsible and more to do with her not having any friends or dates to go out with.

 

Wouldn't it be kind of funny though to find out that Farrah, who had this reputation for being wild and always pawning her kid off on her parents, was actually the parent who most frequently stayed home with her child, while Sanctimommy Maci was the most guilty of leaving her kids to go drink and hang with her friends? (I don't know if this is true, but it's not impossible).

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. I think Farrah went out a lot. She may not have been the "partier" that Maci was, but she wasn't into being home. She still isn't. She's been leaving Sophia with her parents since day one. It's a lot easier to take, because she finished school and owns several businesses and works. But I've never really seen her being that attached to her daughter; she seems like more of a fun accessory, to me. 

[Tatum]

18 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. I think Farrah went out a lot. She may not have been the "partier" that Maci was, but she wasn't into being home. She still isn't. She's been leaving Sophia with her parents since day one. It's a lot easier to take, because she finished school and owns several businesses and works. But I've never really seen her being that attached to her daughter; she seems like more of a fun accessory, to me. 

Agree Farrah is no Mother of the year, I just thought it would be kind of funny if it came out that the wild child porn star was actually something of a homebody, while the one who was depicted as "the responsible one" was actually the one most frequently out around town while her kids stayed home. I don't necessarily think it's true.

[teapot]

3 minutes ago, Tatum said:

Agree Farrah is no Mother of the year, I just thought it would be kind of funny if it came out that the wild child porn star was actually something of a homebody, while the one who was depicted as "the responsible one" was actually the one most frequently out around town while her kids stayed home. I don't necessarily think it's true.

I remember Farrah shrieking at Deborah & Michael in their kitchen that even though she was a mom, she was still a teenager so it was her right to go out.  I mean, sure...?

[StayingAfterSunday]

On 12/22/2017 at 3:59 PM, lampwick said:

Jen and Larry enable and coddle Ryan to the point where they have zero credibility regarding Ryan’s deterioated state and/or their own angst about visitation with Bentley. So Ryan stole from Larry to feed his heroin habit, and Larry said that he wouldn’t piss on him if he was on fire and kicked him out..... but then they set him up in a lakehouse free of charge?!?  Well I guess Larry showed him.  That's just one example that led to Ryan's extreme arrested development.  Jen and Larry’s parenting style prevented Ryan from achieving any independence whatsoever.  They really did him a disservice because they solved all of his problems throughout his life and prevented him from learning how to problem solve on his own.   Ex. "Oh, you're going to be a father?  Don't worry, we'll raise your kid so that you don't have to face the responsibility of being a parent - ever.  It will be like we're Bentley's parents and you can keep on doing nothing."  Let's not forget Ryan's exasperated rant to Jen: "Can you believe Maci and Taylor make Bentley do chores?!  I couldn't imagine you would make me do that."  Right...because god forbid, you might have ended up a productive member of society instead of an irresponsible junkie bum.

Jen and Larry don't get to complain that there is nothing that they can do when they are actually intentionally assisting Ryan in avoiding life's responsibilities.  Throughout all of this, Ryan didn't develop the two most important skills in life:  being self-sufficient and resourceful.  If you have those skills, the sky is the limit even without an academic education.   

For Ryan's part, it is inexplicable to me that he has lingering dad issues from Larry's temper but chooses to stay living with his parents!  Here's a novel idea, get a job and move out asap.  In fact, he does get paid from the show, so he should have moved out long ago.  I don't think he strategically stayed living with his folks to have them on the tv show, so it doesn't make sense....... until I'm reminded that he doesn't have the life skills to live on his own because of Jen and Larry's parenting...and we come full circle.  I suppose he stayed with them so that they could clean and cook for him and more easily handle his visitation responsibilities with Bentley while he was at the bank.  

It's a codependent mess that amounts to a big bowl of wrong.

It is a codependent situation, but my opinion is probably not the popular one.  

I think there are many young people like Ryan out there, people who should STAY living with their parents if that's what the parents want and if that's what the "child" wants.  There are myriad reasons why a living arrangement such as this might occur.  There are some people who are insecure and anxious and can't live alone.  Some of them actually prefer their parents' company to that of people their own age.  There are others who live with parents due to financial hardship.  The list goes on.... 

I think Ryan's issues go deeper than what we're seeing.  His mother knows him best.  It's possible Ryan had psychological/emotional issues early on, which may have contributed to the "coddling" by his parents.  As for his addiction, well, he's not a special case. He's part of a mind-boggling, unprecedented opiate epidemic in America.  His parents didn't cause his addiction (not that anyone said they did), but they did enable it to continue.  

[Emmierose]

With regard to the fuckery that is Catelynn and Tyler, I suspect the bullshit surrounding the "Carly's gonna have questions" is Dawn's fault.  I won't go back and watch the fuckery but from what I recall, Dawn was being all social worker-ish while attempting to offer up a reason WHY Brandon and Teresa are resistant to visits.  I think she was trying to be gentle (and trust me I think she sucks ass for the most part) by saying that maybe the reason why Brandon and Teresa are easing off the visits is because of Carly's questions post visit.   She couldn't actually say to those two fucktards, "Well basically you're the trashiest trash that ever trashed and B&T probably don't want to come near you with a 10 foot pole, never mind allow their precious and carefully raised daughter to be around you stinky, gross, smoke smelling, barely educated, trash losers and have her self esteem go down even a smidge by realizing she shares your DNA."  I doubt that would go over well and most logical and educated people can easily recognize that is the real reason, not that two educated and loving parents are challenged by answering a few questions.   Yeah, no. 

Catelynn and Tyler are absolute trash.   I really believe Teresa had a maternal soft spot for Catelynn for a long time, but Catelynn is now just a fatter April with more money.  She's SO concerned about the child she gave up for adoption yet condescendingly talks smack on national TV about her REAL parents?  Fuck that shit.  All while glaring at feral NotCarly for wrinkling some tissue paper for their crappy asshole baby hooker clothes? Mother of the year.  Have about 5000 seats there Catelynn because you SUCK.

Edited December 29, 2017 by Emmierose

[GreatKazu]

On ‎12‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 5:59 AM, Lm2162 said:

Co-signing on all of this. April, Butch and Kim have all had a major hand in making this situation as horrible as it is. And like I said in the other thread, I don't buy that Cate and Tyler in particular were told they'd be having brunch with Carly and B&T on the weekends or something. 

 

No, they weren't told anything about meeting up for brunch and such by Dawn, however, in the fourth season Theresa made a call to Tyler about meeting up in New York (it was their second visit) and she made the offer to meet up for brunch. I think that set the ball in motion for how their future visits would be. 

[ReadMeLattice]

14 hours ago, Emmierose said:

With regard to the fuckery that is Catelynn and Tyler, I suspect the bullshit surrounding the "Carly's gonna have questions" is Dawn's fault.  I won't go back and watch the fuckery but from what I recall, Dawn was being all social worker-ish while attempting to offer up a reason WHY Brandon and Teresa are resistant to visits.  I think she was trying to be gentle (and trust me I think she sucks ass for the most part) by saying that maybe the reason why Brandon and Teresa are easing off the visits is because of Carly's questions post visit.   She couldn't actually say to those two fucktards, "Well basically you're the trashiest trash that ever trashed and B&T probably don't want to come near you with a 10 foot pole, never mind allow their precious and carefully raised daughter to be around you stinky, gross, smoke smelling, barely educated, trash losers and have her self esteem go down even a smidge by realizing she shares your DNA."  I doubt that would go over well and most logical and educated people can easily recognize that is the real reason, not that two educated and loving parents are challenged by answering a few questions.

This. While I think Dawn probably sucks in a lot of ways, what exactly is she supposed to say? Your dad/former stepdad is a violent felon who went up to her at your wedding and you seem to think that's fine? You won't obey a single rule that's been set for you and you think you're her parents when you're not? She's probably said some version of at least the latter and I'm pretty sure Tyler would not let that one slide without a ton of drama. At this point, it's not anyone's fault but Cate's and Tyler's. Regardless of their initial adoption situation, I truly believe that Brandon and Theresa would be going above and beyond to allow them to see Carly if they had gone off reality TV or given the slightest indication of adhering to the boundaries set for them.  

[Caracoa1]

Are Catelynn and Tyler that dense?  Can they not read between the lines when Dawn speaks to them?  It is time to let go.  Live your lives as the "big time " reality tv stars that you believe you are and be satisfied with your yearly pictures and letter of the daughter you relinquished.

[FozzyBear]

On 12/19/2017 at 8:19 AM, Miasmomma said:

In all fairness, he did specifically mention the hair follicle test, which is used to be able to prevent users from cleaning up quickly for the test and that test does indeed continue to detect  heroin for 90 days so not a year but it could still be within the 90 day period since he got clean.

Is the hair test binary? Like a yes/no thing? Or does it detect levels? If it’s a binary test, ok I guess. But if it detects levels shouldn’t Ryan be able to take it to show he’s likely been clean since rehab? I’m really asking. I don’t know how the test works.

[FozzyBear]

On 12/25/2017 at 5:40 AM, Lm2162 said:

Yep. Ovarian cysts could also cause them, and irregular periods are far more common than we usually think. She's also underweight, as you mention. She could very well have PCOS, a lot of people do (and are able to get pregnant...), but I bet she just had rare or irregular periods and self-diagnosed. Just my opinion. 

I'm torn on the partying while Bentley was young thing. As with many things with Maci, I think her advertisement of it and her extremity are what make it bad. I've had two work trips since my baby was born and I took the opportunity to go out with friends during them and have some cocktails. I used them as breaks. I've also had a lot of family help. I don't feel bad about any of that at all. I think every parent needs a break. However, Maci was living IN A PARTY HOUSE with Bentley. She's always been very immature and striving way too hard to look "cool," and she's definitely not the best role model.

However, I would never, ever say she's as bad as Ryan. I don't think binge drinking should be supported, and she acts like a ridiculous self-righteous asshole in many cases, but exactly the same as neglecting your child from birth, then becoming a junkie and leaving rehab early? Not in my opinion. She has made some terrible decisions, but Ryan wasn't even there for Bentley for most of his life. The heroin is just the latest failure. 

I would say in all honesty, Maci is an average to slightly below average parent. Ryan is no parent at all.

[Rebecca]

On 12/19/2017 at 9:31 AM, Calm81 said:

I’m surprised nobody noticed that Mackenzie’s son looks like a child version of Father Mulcahy from the show Mash, actor William Christopher.

The right photo was hard to find, you’d have to see a video clip to see the similarities lol.

 

Wow, I already thought her kid had “old man face” and you proved it. I wonder if he will look 45 at 21 as well?

On 12/19/2017 at 0:04 PM, LotusFlower said:

It doesn't appear Jen and Larry called Maci to talk to her about anything or to request visits w/Bentley - it's all been through Ryan, which is part of the problem.  They know what Maci is going to say, and they don't want to hear it.  They'd rather stay in their bubble of denial ("Ryan did his stint, so what's the problem?") and complain about the demon Maci.

But more importantly, these relationships aren't quid pro quo, and your POV isn't taking into account how much Jen enables Ryan.  Based on what we've seen, Bentley's safety is truly a concern whenever he's in the care of the Edward's (b/c of Ryan).  

This. Jen isn’t going to risk “triggering” her baby (Ryan) and I could see her letting Bentley go off with Ryan “for just a minute” and it being bad.

On 12/19/2017 at 2:12 PM, GreatKazu said:

Jen talking to producer about Maci keeping Bentley from her home:

"If Ryan is doing anything, ANYTHING in this house, and I see one sign of anything, he's not gonna be here."

Sure, Jan.

You sat there with Ryan in your yard after his release from rehab as he drank beer. STFU Jen.

Maci has every right to feel scared because there is no way you did not know Ryan was doing drugs and you allowed Bentley to be around him when he was high.

This. Plus, if Jen was supposedly so ignorant and didn’t realize exactly what was going on, how the hell can she be trusted to see it now?

On 12/19/2017 at 4:20 PM, Tatum said:

I know, but Larry always gave off this happy go lucky vibe. While his anger came out in the previous season, it was not unjustified. But Larry's anger at Taylor and Maci seems SO out of left field. I mean, the guy has like, rage against them.

The guy knows his idiot son can't be trusted with anything, yet Maci is a scorned woman withholding Bentley because Ryan doesn't love her? Taylor is a cocksucker because he came to the defense of his stepson when the stepson's paternal grandfather was berating him in public and embarrassing him? WTF?

One word: alcohol.

On 12/20/2017 at 1:11 PM, Birdee said:

Someone up thread asked if the magical Edwards Wedding 2.0 had happened, and based on the pictures I'm guessing yes. Or they just got dressed up and took photos. Both are equally possible. 

 

Not flattering photos. And is she calling herself “holy hottttttt”? Lol.

On 12/20/2017 at 2:00 PM, Tatum said:

Also, see how it says 419 comments below the pics? I opened up this post to see what people are saying. About 99% of the comments are absolutely slamming her. Even Amber and Jenelle, two of the most worthless people ever to appear on a reality show, get about a 75/25 split on nice/mean comments. I bet Mack has done a scrub already and still can't beat 1%. Ouch.

I’ve checked her Instagram a lot, it’s always about 99% negative and the 1% positive comments seem to exist only to try and bait/piss off the other 99% or because they hate Maci. I’m not convinced ANYONE actually likes Mackenzie, Ryan included.

On 12/21/2017 at 0:33 PM, Tatum said:

Butch sought out Carly because he knew it would get him camera time. Not only did he blatantly disregard her parents' wishes, it wasn't even like he just had to see her and couldn't help himself. He did it to further his own TV exposure. 

I also think part of it was him thinking, dammit it’s MY grandkid, I’m obviously ENTITLED to go talk to her if I wish. Tyler, Kim and Butch are nothing if not entitled as hell.

On 12/21/2017 at 2:47 PM, WhosThatGirl said:

And the way he talked about B&T in this latest episode was so tudeZ “I don’t even care about my relationship with them anymore, it doesn’t matter” uh. Okay. 

And maybe that’s the fucking problem, Tyler? Can you imagine if B+T saidanything even close to similar about Catelynn and Tyler?! All hell would break out. Apparently “making a baby” is MUCH more important than RAISING said baby/child to Tyler. 

On 12/21/2017 at 4:16 PM, lezlers said:

Hearing about what happened at the little league game made everything crystal clear to me with respect to the Edwards family because there's a certain type of person who would act that way towards a child and not feel one iota of remorse about it (in fact, he'd go a step further and attack someone for pointing out that it was inappropriate.)  All the sudden I was able to figure out why Ryan is an addict and why Jen is a champion enabler.  If I were Maci I'd tell Larry to go fuck himself.  He can see Bentley when Ryan gets off his fuck-up ass and gets a court order.  In the meantime, Mimi Jen can meet up to visit with Bentley at mom's house.

Yes. I also think Larry’s glaring drinking problem plays a big role. 

On 12/21/2017 at 6:44 PM, ginger90 said:

Jen tweeted a link to this

http://starcasm.net/archives/380807

? What a bullshit article. I’m so glad many people are able to see past their good edit now.

On 12/22/2017 at 7:11 AM, Tatum said:

Have you called her, Larry? Have you asked her what she needs from you to feel comfortable about Bentley coming over? Have you suggested an alternate plan, like meeting for lunch or at a park or coming to her house? Have you fucking APOLOGIZED for losing your damn mind at a kid's little league game and bullying Bentley? Have you acknowledged that it was wrong and thanked Taylor for coming to Bentley's aid? Have you maybe acknowledged that Mack's letter to Maci was way out of line, and you do not support her line of thinking at all? Or have you sat in your little man cave with an ever present beer can stewing about Maci being so mean without doing a thing to improve the situation?

Alllllllll of this. I don’t even like Maci but Jen and especially Larry, are pissing me off with all of this. They’re so fucking entitled and so is their fuck up son.

7 hours ago, Lm2162 said:

This. While I think Dawn probably sucks in a lot of ways, what exactly is she supposed to say? Your dad/former stepdad is a violent felon who went up to her at your wedding and you seem to think that's fine? You won't obey a single rule that's been set for you and you think you're her parents when you're not? She's probably said some version of at least the latter and I'm pretty sure Tyler would not let that one slide without a ton of drama. At this point, it's not anyone's fault but Cate's and Tyler's. Regardless of their initial adoption situation, I truly believe that Brandon and Theresa would be going above and beyond to allow them to see Carly if they had gone off reality TV or given the slightest indication of adhering to the boundaries set for them.  

The first problem, and I know I keep saying this word, is entitlement. Catelynn and Tyler need a hard smack of REALITY that they have no rights, AT ALL, to Carly. Sometimes I wish B+T weren’t such quiet, respectful people. I really want them to go off about how they “don’t care” about having a relationship with C+T (ala Tyler about them) and how they’ve gone above and beyond what most would do at this point by even offering a visit to these trash bags who seem to relish in disrespecting B+T as much as possible.

Edited December 30, 2017 by Rebecca

[lezlers]

On ‎12‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 6:01 AM, ghoulina said:

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. I think Farrah went out a lot. She may not have been the "partier" that Maci was, but she wasn't into being home. She still isn't. She's been leaving Sophia with her parents since day one. It's a lot easier to take, because she finished school and owns several businesses and works. But I've never really seen her being that attached to her daughter; she seems like more of a fun accessory, to me. 

Right.  I don't get how Maci leaving Bentley with her parents for a few weeks years ago is egregious enough for everyone to still be talking about it here 7  years later yet Farrah constantly leaving for extended periods of time is just kind of glossed over.   Farrah barely raises Mowgli, she's away from her more than she's with her.  Say what you want about Maci, at least she's actively involved in her childrens' lives and is very much their primary caretaker.

Edited December 30, 2017 by lezlers

[GreatKazu]

33 minutes ago, lezlers said:

Right.  I don't get how Maci leaving Bentley with her parents for a few weeks years ago is egregious enough for everyone to still be talking about it here 7  years later yet Farrah constantly leaving for extended periods of time is just kind of glossed over.   Farrah barely raises Mowgli, she's away from her more than she's with her.  Say what you want about Maci, at least she's actively involved in her childrens' lives and is very much their primary caretaker.

Maci is the primary caretaker and she should be. She is not working. She is not in school. She is not running any businesses. And no, I don't consider stuffing a couple of shirts in an envelope a job for which she deserves a break from her children to the point she has two of them in daycare full-time. Her job is to be the SAHP. 

I don't care for Farrah, but if she is taking off to earn money, so what? I wouldn't bat an eye at Maci or any of the other girls if they were taking off to earn some extra money. Even Kail takes off now and then to earn money by doing podcasts and connecting with people for endorsements. I will snark the shit outta them for needing a vacation "away from the kids". Even Farrah takes Sophia now and then on trips. 

[lezlers]

1 hour ago, GreatKazu said:

Maci is the primary caretaker and she should be. She is not working. She is not in school. She is not running any businesses. And no, I don't consider stuffing a couple of shirts in an envelope a job for which she deserves a break from her children to the point she has two of them in daycare full-time. Her job is to be the SAHP. 

I don't care for Farrah, but if she is taking off to earn money, so what? I wouldn't bat an eye at Maci or any of the other girls if they were taking off to earn some extra money. Even Kail takes off now and then to earn money by doing podcasts and connecting with people for endorsements. I will snark the shit outta them for needing a vacation "away from the kids". Even Farrah takes Sophia now and then on trips. 

Wasn't that what she WAS doing though?  I believe she was touring and giving speeches, right?  Maybe she took one extra day to have fun with her friends at the end, but it wasn't like she abandoned Bentley for a month strictly to party. 

 

Found the original quote (not from you, I think it was Tatum):  "I think it was around that time as well that Maci left Bentley with her parents for 4 straight weeks so she could go on her multi city speaking tour which ended with the infamous beer bong pictures on some beach, when she was around 18-19. She took a lot of flak for that on TWoP (not so much the drinking- if taking a beer bong at 18 makes you an awful person then you guys probably don't want to know me, but the flak was more geared towards leaving your for a month to go party)."

I mean, if Farrah partying it up in clubs and porn conventions can be filed under "working" and saves her flak for leaving Sophia, then Maci can do a beer bong on a beach during a multi-city speaking tour and have that be filed under "working" as well.

Edited December 31, 2017 by lezlers

[SPLAIN]

2 hours ago, lezlers said:

Right.  I don't get how Maci leaving Bentley with her parents for a few weeks years ago is egregious enough for everyone to still be talking about it here 7  years later yet Farrah constantly leaving for extended periods of time is just kind of glossed over.   Farrah barely raises Mowgli, she's away from her more than she's with her.  Say what you want about Maci, at least she's actively involved in her childrens' lives and is very much their primary caretaker.

 

1 hour ago, lezlers said:

Wasn't that what she WAS doing though?  I believe she was touring and giving speeches, right?  Maybe she took one extra day to have fun with her friends at the end, but it wasn't like she abandoned Bentley for a month strictly to party. 

Oh, it was more than a few weeks, years ago. Maci has left Bentley behind to go out of state on numerous occasions.  She left to go to Texas to meet up with another guy named Kyle (Kyle 2.0), she headed out to Florida many times for spring break and other events, she was partying it up and chugging alcohol all before she was legally allowed to do so. I do take issue with minors drinking all day long especially those who have a child back home. Many of those times it had nothing to do with Maci specifically going out of state to give her phony baloney speeches about abstinence and birth control.

As for bringing up something she did 6 years ago, when it appears this girl has an issue with alcohol, I think it is fair game to bring up what she was doing as a minor with alcohol. No different than bringing up how Ryan was acting 6 years ago and how it pertains to his addiction today.

I don't think Maci OR Farrah has abandoned any of the kids to just party for a month. If there was work involved, so be it. I have yet to see or hear Maci declare she had to be away from Bentley for a month due to various work engagements. Porn and adult industry is a business. It may not be the business you, me, or anyone else would enter into, but if Farrah is doing it and it gives her a paycheck that covers her bills for six months and allows her to pay her taxes, I don't see the problem with her going away and having her father care for her child. If she had a husband who was there to fulfill that for her, I don't think people would declare it to be a problem. If Farrah had a husband whose job took him out of town for weeks at a time, I don't think it would be seen as an issue. Jeremy Calvert is away from his child for weeks at a time due to his job. I am not seeing him being blamed for abandoning his child.

I will continue to talk about Maci's life for as long as she continues to be on my screen and for as long as this board exists. The only difference between her life then and now is, she had two trap babies, she is married, and I am sure her liver is paying the price for all that alcohol she is ingesting and her lungs are black like the night sky. She is still sanctimonious as hell.

ETA: I am not about praising Maci for the very thing she should be doing which is being a mother to her children. That is like praising Jo and Gary for being great dads to their kids. They are doing the job they should be doing. I will praise them for having to co-parent with some shitty people.

Edited December 31, 2017 by SPLAIN

[ReadMeLattice]

2 hours ago, SPLAIN said:

 

I don't think Maci OR Farrah has abandoned any of the kids to just party for a month. If there was work involved, so be it. I have yet to see or hear Maci declare she had to be away from Bentley for a month due to various work engagements. Porn and adult industry is a business. It may not be the business you, me, or anyone else would enter into, but if Farrah is doing it and it gives her a paycheck that covers her bills for six months and allows her to pay her taxes, I don't see the problem with her going away and having her father care for her child. If she had a husband who was there to fulfill that for her, I don't think people would declare it to be a problem. If Farrah had a husband whose job took him out of town for weeks at a time, I don't think it would be seen as an issue. Jeremy Calvert is away from his child for weeks at a time due to his job. I am not seeing him being blamed for abandoning his child.

This is very true. Jeremy going away isn't any different. The industry doesn't matter. It's legal work. 

And thank you @Rebecca for pointing out Larry's obvious drinking problem. There's a reason Jen is so well practiced as an enabler. Ryan ain't her first enabling rodeo. 

Edited December 31, 2017 by Lm2162

[Kb60]

On 12/23/2017 at 5:14 PM, lezlers said:

PCOS is what Maci claimed to have to cover up for another trap baby.

LMFAO!

[mamadrama]

So was the "trip to see Matt in Las Vegas" and the visit to his "therapist" code for Marriage Boot Camp? It's going to be kind of jarring to go from THIS episode, where they're mean to be "working it out" and she's saying that she doesn't want to meet anyone else to the editing-time fuckery of NEXT episode where she's already with NewMatt. 

[lezlers]

14 hours ago, SPLAIN said:

 

Oh, it was more than a few weeks, years ago. Maci has left Bentley behind to go out of state on numerous occasions.  She left to go to Texas to meet up with another guy named Kyle (Kyle 2.0), she headed out to Florida many times for spring break and other events, she was partying it up and chugging alcohol all before she was legally allowed to do so. I do take issue with minors drinking all day long especially those who have a child back home. Many of those times it had nothing to do with Maci specifically going out of state to give her phony baloney speeches about abstinence and birth control.

As for bringing up something she did 6 years ago, when it appears this girl has an issue with alcohol, I think it is fair game to bring up what she was doing as a minor with alcohol. No different than bringing up how Ryan was acting 6 years ago and how it pertains to his addiction today.

I don't think Maci OR Farrah has abandoned any of the kids to just party for a month. If there was work involved, so be it. I have yet to see or hear Maci declare she had to be away from Bentley for a month due to various work engagements. Porn and adult industry is a business. It may not be the business you, me, or anyone else would enter into, but if Farrah is doing it and it gives her a paycheck that covers her bills for six months and allows her to pay her taxes, I don't see the problem with her going away and having her father care for her child. If she had a husband who was there to fulfill that for her, I don't think people would declare it to be a problem. If Farrah had a husband whose job took him out of town for weeks at a time, I don't think it would be seen as an issue. Jeremy Calvert is away from his child for weeks at a time due to his job. I am not seeing him being blamed for abandoning his child.

I will continue to talk about Maci's life for as long as she continues to be on my screen and for as long as this board exists. The only difference between her life then and now is, she had two trap babies, she is married, and I am sure her liver is paying the price for all that alcohol she is ingesting and her lungs are black like the night sky. She is still sanctimonious as hell.

ETA: I am not about praising Maci for the very thing she should be doing which is being a mother to her children. That is like praising Jo and Gary for being great dads to their kids. They are doing the job they should be doing. I will praise them for having to co-parent with some shitty people.

I totally agree with you on the going away for work thing.   That was kind of my whole point.  I was under the impression the trip people were giving her grief for was work related.  My point of discussing Farrah in the clubs was that Farrah is partying as part of her work, Maci was on tour and partying.  The partying aspect alone shouldn't be what differentiates them if they're both out of town on business.  If it was purely pleasure and not business, that's a whole nother thing. 

[Ashand11]

Larry and Jen don't seem to realize that they didn't notice Ryan's drug use for how many years so how can she trust that they will notice it now? Not to mention Ryan might be at their house with them and she wouldn't know.  Maci is actually a really good parent these days and I haven't really liked her much.  Why is it so hard for Ryan to share with Maci that these drugs take that long to get out of his system and ask if there is some way to work things out?  Also, why can't Tyler and Cate just fly out for the day in the middle of their vacation and then go back.  Its not like they don't have money.

 

it's nice to see that Farrah actually has a good relationship with one of her parents these days.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Ashand11

[DangerousMinds]

Maci was just pictured driving with her feet up while texting. Not such a good parent these days, IMO.

[GreatKazu]

3 hours ago, lezlers said:

I totally agree with you on the going away for work thing.   That was kind of my whole point.  I was under the impression the trip people were giving her grief for was work related.  My point of discussing Farrah in the clubs was that Farrah is partying as part of her work, Maci was on tour and partying.  The partying aspect alone shouldn't be what differentiates them if they're both out of town on business.  If it was purely pleasure and not business, that's a whole nother thing. 

Maci was also a minor who was ingesting liquor. Farrah is an adult. To me, that is another difference. Farrah is allowed to drink, party and travel since she is taking care of her business. Maci was a teen living with her parents and wasn't working and was lackluster with her education. 

Very true @SPLAIN and @Lm2162 about the guys being able to venture out of town for work, but if Farrah does it for her adult businesses, it is looked upon differently. 

 

1 hour ago, Ashand11 said:

Larry and Jen don't seem to realize that they didn't notice Ryan's drug use for how many years so how can she trust that they will notice it now? Not to mention Ryan might be at their house with them and she wouldn't know.  Maci is actually a really good parent these days and I haven't really liked her much.  Why is it so hard for Ryan to share with Maci that these drugs take that long to get out of his system and ask if there is some way to work things out?  Also, why can't Tyler and Cate just fly out for the day in the middle of their vacation and then go back.  Its not like they don't have money.

 

it's nice to see that Farrah actually has a good relationship with one of her parents these days.

Larry and Jen admitted recently they were aware of Ryan's drug use. That is the problem. They were aware of it for how long, is the question. Maci can take a seat herself since she knew Ryan was in rehab back in 2012. I think she should have put her foot down back then and demanded testing before shipping off Bentley to Larry and Jen's home, but then that would mean she would have not had free babysitting while she took her jaunts to go out to party with friends out of state. 

I don't know what constitutes being a good parent nowadays, but anyone who texts while driving while putting their children in harm's way has no room to point fingers at others for putting any child in danger. 

Me thinks Larry and Maci are butting heads because they both have an issue with their drinking and they are both ready to out each other. 

Edited December 31, 2017 by GreatKazu

[heatherchandler]

On 12/28/2017 at 3:24 PM, GreatKazu said:

I think what got blurred was the comparison of Maci not putting the safety of her children first while she is behind the wheel. One can be a danger behind the wheel without having an addiction to any particular drug. 

I received a FireStick for Christmas. Aside from binge-watching Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, I was enjoying watching the earlier seasons of Teen Mom. 

Yes- thank you!!

Oh I have a firstick- how do I get to the old tm seasons??  

 

22 hours ago, Rebecca said:

 

? What a bullshit article. I’m so glad many people are able to see past their good edit now.

 

 

This is the only site I’ve seen where there is such inexplicable anger towards Jen and Larry- everywhere else I’ve seen nothing but compassion and understanding.  

[GreatKazu]

2 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

Yes- thank you!!

Oh I have a firstick- how do I get to the old tm seasons??  

 

 

This is the only site I’ve seen where there is such inexplicable anger towards Jen and Larry- everywhere else I’ve seen nothing but compassion and understanding.  

I will PM you about the FireStick. 

[Rebecca]

3 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

This is the only site I’ve seen where there is such inexplicable anger towards Jen and Larry- everywhere else I’ve seen nothing but compassion and understanding.  

Really? It’s hard to have a ton of compassion and understanding when they want to blame everything on other people and continue to coddle their THIRTY year old son, some might say at the expense of their grandson but definitely at the expense of the son himself.

Larry is not such a good person, IMO, and I’ve always thought this. He has drinking and anger issues. He thought nothing of calling Taylor a “cocksucker” for having the “nerve” to stick up for an 8 year old being screamed at during a game by his drunk grandfather. They’ve allowed and flat out enabled Ryan to be a bullshit father. He’s not a real adult because his parents never gave him the skills to be. They sit there with him talking shit about the parent who is raising their grandchild because Ryan won’t while Ryan, fresh from a whole 20 days in rehab, sucks down a beer. They’re full of crap. I’d feel totally difffently if they seem to be growing in any way from this experience. Let’s not forget that Ryan has been through rehab before but they don’t even acknowledge that. They’re clearly not taking any of this that seriously. It’s all about appearances. 

[lezlers]

5 hours ago, GreatKazu said:

Maci was also a minor who was ingesting liquor. Farrah is an adult. To me, that is another difference. 

It's hard to debate when the goalposts keep moving.   Here's a quote from you from the previous page:

 

"I don't think I remember having an issue with her drinking alcohol. I had my fair share of alcohol before I was 21 years of age."

[GreatKazu]

21 minutes ago, lezlers said:

It's hard to debate when the goalposts keep moving.   Here's a quote from you from the previous page:

 

"I don't think I remember having an issue with her drinking alcohol. I had my fair share of alcohol before I was 21 years of age."

No goal posts have changed. You just chose not to quote my entire post. 

I was pointing out that I won't be judgy about someone having alcohol before they were of legal age. Plenty of us have done just that, as many have pointed out.  However, I also did NOT have a child when I was a minor, like Maci. If I did, my ass would NOT have left behind a minor child with my family or any other family to care for while I chose to go out and illegally drink alcohol and chase down guys to marry me. Maci is on a show called Teen Mom not any show such as Jersey Shore. 

Edited January 1, 2018 by GreatKazu

[ReadMeLattice]

I feel for them as parents of an addict, I'm sure it's hard...but they come across as extremely toxic and coddling to me, and Larry (imo) seems like a total dick who needs to go to anger management very badly. His rage at everyone *except* himself is scary, as is Jen's willingness to blame everyone but Ryan for his own neglectful and abusive behavior. 

[GreatKazu]

8 hours ago, Lm2162 said:

I feel for them as parents of an addict, I'm sure it's hard...but they come across as extremely toxic and coddling to me, and Larry (imo) seems like a total dick who needs to go to anger management very badly. His rage at everyone *except* himself is scary, as is Jen's willingness to blame everyone but Ryan for his own neglectful and abusive behavior. 

I do feel compassion for them as well. It is not at all easy to deal with an addict especially if that addict is a relative. Some of us who have dealt with an addict know that we didn't have the answers in the beginning and we surely had a hard time with separating our love for the person from the disease. Addiction is a bitch and it can bring out the worst in the addict and the enablers. 

With that pointed out, this is the second time Jen and Larry's child has been in rehab. By this point they surely know what it entails to follow through with post-rehab therapy. It appears Larry and Jen are continuing the enabling.  To hear Jen later say to the producer if she saw Ryan do "ANYTHING", she would pounce on him immediately. Well, we know that is not true since Larry and Jen didn't utter one word about Ryan drinking beer fresh out of rehab. That shit just blew my mind. There still seems to be ignorance coming from Larry and Jen and it leads me to believe they haven't followed through with any sort of therapy or meetings or they are just ignoring all the advice they are being given. In some ways, Larry and Jen need their own intervention. Every single person connected in this situation is pointing fingers at others. 

Larry and Jen are probably recognizing through any post therapy or meetings that Larry himself may have an issue with alcohol and played a major part in why Ryan is where he is at today. They are not ready to deal with Ryan's issues because neither one of them is ready to recognize Larry's issues. 

Edited January 2, 2018 by GreatKazu

[Rebecca]

@GreatKazu and @Lm2162 said it way better than I did! 

 

(I should not post “under the influence!”)

[Tatum]

On 12/31/2017 at 1:31 PM, heatherchandler said:

 

This is the only site I’ve seen where there is such inexplicable anger towards Jen and Larry- everywhere else I’ve seen nothing but compassion and understanding.  

I don't think there is "inexplicable anger" towards Larry and Jen posted here. I don't think anyone is angry with them personally- none of us knows them, and none of us have been wronged by them.

 

Larry has chosen to make a number of inappropriate comments about Maci and Taylor on this season of Teen Mom. That is his own fault and his own doing. And he also is indirectly implying in that Starcasm article that Maci is "using" Bentley to punish Ryan, and that is a trigger for Ryan. So, in reality, he's preemptively blaming Maci (who has done far more for Larry's grandson than his worthless son ever did) for any backsliding Ryan might do. He also puts the onus of managing his relationship with his grandson entirely on Maci, as though there aren't a couple things he could do if he wants to see Bentley so badly.

 

The article to me just came off to me as Larry blaming Maci for everything that is Ryan's own fault. I don't think it's "inexplicable" to be annoyed by that.

[TheRealT]

On 12/25/2017 at 8:40 AM, Lm2162 said:

I'm torn on the partying while Bentley was young thing. As with many things with Maci, I think her advertisement of it and her extremity are what make it bad. I've had two work trips since my baby was born and I took the opportunity to go out with friends during them and have some cocktails. I used them as breaks. I've also had a lot of family help. I don't feel bad about any of that at all. I think every parent needs a break. However, Maci was living IN A PARTY HOUSE with Bentley. She's always been very immature and striving way too hard to look "cool," and she's definitely not the best role model.

However, I would never, ever say she's as bad as Ryan. I don't think binge drinking should be supported, and she acts like a ridiculous self-righteous asshole in many cases, but exactly the same as neglecting your child from birth, then becoming a junkie and leaving rehab early? Not in my opinion. She has made some terrible decisions, but Ryan wasn't even there for Bentley for most of his life. The heroin is just the latest failure.

My biggest issue with Maci is her self-righteousness. At best, she is a flawed and rather immature mother/person, but that is understandable/forgivable to me. But she acts as if she is some kind of paragon of strength, maturity and wisdom beyond her years, success, "coolness," etc., etc. IMO, she is none of those things. It's beyond obvious that Maci is a better parent than Ryan, but that's a very low bar. To me, Maci is a pretty trashy young woman who has accomplished little to nothing in life besides being a basically functioning adult. She got pregnant in high school; farted around in community college for years without getting so much as an associate's degree or training for any kind of career; spent years partying and looking for (just about) any random dude to marry her; and ended up conceiving 2 more kids out of wedlock before succeeding in locking down a pretty unimpressive guy who lives off of her and the business(es) she bankrolls. There's nothing there that impresses me.

So, to me, it grates that much more when she tries to lord her "superiority" over Ryan. The only thing I ever liked about Ryan was how he had her number and frequently called her on her shit. When the show is over, I think she'll do better than Amber or C&T, but I would expect that she'll have to downsize significantly and I wouldn't be surprised at all to see her working the register at a Walmart in Chattanooga within a few years.

[Scarlett45]

@TheRealT YES! I don’t think Maci is a morally corrupt human being or anything, and I think when her kids are grown and out of the house they will still love her very much and have great memories- BUT Maci is very average. She just is, the difference between her and someone like Chelsea is that Chelsea doesn’t “put on airs” that she’s the most AMAZING Mom/wife/business owner ever (I think Chelsea probably has a sweeter personality and a better disposition than Maci) and she loves to hoard her “functioning adult self” over Ryan.

Ryan is an addict and a horrible parent, Maci has to make decisions for Bentley based on this. Also there’s no excuse for Larry saying those things he said about Taylor etc. I do believe MimiJen and Larry love/care for Bentley, and have been very involved grandparents but now that Maci knows they enable Ryan the way they have I support her limiting visitation and outings to HER terms until (or if) Ryan gets sober. However, Ryan’s addiction shouldn’t be an excuse for Maci to pull the martyr act. 

[ReadMeLattice]

13 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

@TheRealT YES! I don’t think Maci is a morally corrupt human being or anything, and I think when her kids are grown and out of the house they will still love her very much and have great memories- BUT Maci is very average. She just is, the difference between her and someone like Chelsea is that Chelsea doesn’t “put on airs” that she’s the most AMAZING Mom/wife/business owner ever (I think Chelsea probably has a sweeter personality and a better disposition than Maci) and she loves to hoard her “functioning adult self” over Ryan.

Ryan is an addict and a horrible parent, Maci has to make decisions for Bentley based on this. Also there’s no excuse for Larry saying those things he said about Taylor etc. I do believe MimiJen and Larry love/care for Bentley, and have been very involved grandparents but now that Maci knows they enable Ryan the way they have I support her limiting visitation and outings to HER terms until (or if) Ryan gets sober. However, Ryan’s addiction shouldn’t be an excuse for Maci to pull the martyr act. 

Yes, this 100 percent. I do think Chelsea has moments of self-righteousness, but Maci THRIVES on it. It's almost her main personality trait.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Lm2162

[Vandy10]

10 minutes ago, Lm2162 said:

Yes, this 100 percent. I do think Chelsea has moments of self-righteousness, but Maci THRIVES on it. It's almost her main personality trait.

I also think Chelsea benefits greatly from Adam's withdrawal from filming. Now we don't have to hear Chelsea talk about Adam, interrogate Aubree about Adam, or film scenes at the court. It definitely makes her seem more mature and put together to never hear her thoughts about Adam on camera, even though we don't know what's in her head or what she says to friends and family off camera. 

But with Maci, most of her segments are somehow related to Ryan (because he's still filming) and that does not help her come across well on camera.

[Scarlett45]

12 minutes ago, Lm2162 said:

Yes, this 100 percent. I do think Chelsea has moments of self-righteousness, but Maci THRIVES on it. It's almost her main personality trait.

Yes that’s the difference. I agree Chelsea has her moments, but her entire life’s purpose is not to show everyone she was superior to Adam. Even in the early days she admitted she chose him to be Aubrey’s Dad and Aubrey had to suffer for something that wasn’t her fault.....could you ever see Maci taking responsibly for ANYTHING? Even a simple “you know Larry/Jen, I perhaps willingly ignored Ryan’s addiction out of fondness for you guys and I was secure in your love for Bentley, I’m trying to do better now etc”. (Again, NOT excusing how Larry treated Taylor)

Anyone in this world can make a mistake, but an adult takes responsibility for their mistake and amends behavior going forward....not blame other people for their actions. 

[TheRealT]

20 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

@TheRealT YES! I don’t think Maci is a morally corrupt human being or anything, and I think when her kids are grown and out of the house they will still love her very much and have great memories- BUT Maci is very average. She just is, the difference between her and someone like Chelsea is that Chelsea doesn’t “put on airs” that she’s the most AMAZING Mom/wife/business owner ever (I think Chelsea probably has a sweeter personality and a better disposition than Maci) and she loves to hoard her “functioning adult self” over Ryan.

Ryan is an addict and a horrible parent, Maci has to make decisions for Bentley based on this. Also there’s no excuse for Larry saying those things he said about Taylor etc. I do believe MimiJen and Larry love/care for Bentley, and have been very involved grandparents but now that Maci knows they enable Ryan the way they have I support her limiting visitation and outings to HER terms until (or if) Ryan gets sober. However, Ryan’s addiction shouldn’t be an excuse for Maci to pull the martyr act. 

I actually think Chelsea is a better mother than Maci. Chelsea has never prioritized partying over her children and she waited until she was in a committed relationship to have a planned second child rather than having an oops, I mean miracle baby with a guy who wasn't committed to her, then another miracle baby to seal the deal. And she is certainly a nicer, more humble person than Maci. And less of a hypocrite. And I'm not even a Chelsea fan.

[Tatum]

11 hours ago, TheRealT said:

My biggest issue with Maci is her self-righteousness. At best, she is a flawed and rather immature mother/person, but that is understandable/forgivable to me. But she acts as if she is some kind of paragon of strength, maturity and wisdom beyond her years, success, "coolness," etc., etc. IMO, she is none of those things. It's beyond obvious that Maci is a better parent than Ryan, but that's a very low bar. To me, Maci is a pretty trashy young woman who has accomplished little to nothing in life besides being a basically functioning adult. She got pregnant in high school; farted around in community college for years without getting so much as an associate's degree or training for any kind of career; spent years partying and looking for (just about) any random dude to marry her; and ended up conceiving 2 more kids out of wedlock before succeeding in locking down a pretty unimpressive guy who lives off of her and the business(es) she bankrolls. There's nothing there that impresses me.

I SO agree with this. Maci is an average to above average mom, I would say. She does what she needs to in order to take care of Bentley, and Bentley is a well mannered, well adjusted, likeable child, and some of that credit must go to Maci. While she had help, she also did a lot of the parenting on her own. So I will give her some credit for that.

 

But as a person? She kind of sucks. From her condescending book titles (Lessons I've learned so you don't have to...), to her speeches on abstinence and birth control, which she clearly wasn't doing either, to her mean girl shenanigans with Farrah (talking a bunch of shit behind her back but not having the guts to say it to her face, backpedaling when confronted, and then encouraging Amber and Cate to confront her instead while Maci hides in the background, to bragging about her "three companies", to the various ways she has let the cameras know over the years what a shit father Ryan is (we can tell, Maci, you don't need to hammer that one home)- she's just a petty, immature bratty teenager in a lot of ways. Compared to Amber, Jenelle, Nathan, Adam, Ryan, David Eason, and even Cate and Tyler- yes she has some redeeming qualities the former do not have, but she's just not a likeable person.

[CofCinci]

Chelsea has grown through the years — Maci has not. She’s still the party girl we saw in her 16&P with big preggo belly, recklessly riding on a quad. 

[Tatum]

12 minutes ago, CofCinci said:

Chelsea has grown through the years — Maci has not. She’s still the party girl we saw in her 16&P with big preggo belly, recklessly riding on a quad. 

Agreed. I've long thought that she was emotionally stunted at 17. The weird thing is she was probably the most mature of all the girls in the beginning. But she never progressed past the emotional maturity of a 17 year old, while a few-but not all- of the other girls did. Being immature when you're 17 is forgivable. Not so much when you're approaching your late 20s.

 

The interesting thing about comparing her to Chelsea is that both sets of parents were probably the most functional in the entire series and gave the best advice and the most financial support. Chelsea seemed to immediately recognize, even in her teens, that her father had her best interests at heart and probably knew better than she did, and other than Adam, seemed to listen to him. Maci always had more of a "don't tell me what to do" attitude towards her parents. Had this show not been the success it was, she would have been forced to listen to them if she wanted their financial help.

I still remember at the end of Maci's 16&P episode, she's on the phone with her mother, who is telling her that she is 17 years old, raising an infant on a minimum wage part time job while trying to go to school and having a deadbeat partner, and she therefore has better things to do with her time and money than spend $400 on a tattoo commemorating the birth of Bentley. Maci snits that she and Ryan have been planning this for awhile and therefore can't cancel their plans now. I guess talking about getting matching tattoos with your baby daddy equals a firm commitment that must be carried out. Chelsea would have backed down if Randalicious had insisted.

Maci is stubborn and has bad judgment and won't listen to anyone who doesn't say what she wants to hear. The money has given her the option to continue this pattern of thinking. Therefore she is a perpetual teenager.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Tatum

[StayingAfterSunday]

2 hours ago, CofCinci said:

Chelsea has grown through the years — Maci has not. She’s still the party girl we saw in her 16&P with big preggo belly, recklessly riding on a quad. 

Chelsea has, no doubt, matured.  I think she's one of the only girls on TM-OG and TM2 who has such a caring, involved father, and I believe this has been a major factor in Chelsea's decision making and overall adjustment to adulthood.  Maybe because she comes across so "together" and because Adam is no longer featured in her storyline, I I now find her (and Cole) boring and non-essential to the show, in general.  Then again, so are most of the so-called storylines and the people in them.  Still, I watch...

About Maci:  I am awed by these allegations of her drinking so much.  I know pictures have been taken of her in the act, including during at least one pregnancy.  Even so, I am surprised she's able to stay so damned thin in spite of all the drinking (not to mention every other scene on TM shows the cast members eating out at a restaurant).  Another poster (I tried to find the post but could not) mentioned being able to spot an alcoholic a mile away. Does Maci fit that profile based on her thin build?  I know older adults who've been drinking for years often become thin and brittle looking, but I've always pictured younger ones to be more on the heavy side.  

[Tatum]

10 minutes ago, StayingAfterSunday said:

About Maci:  I am awed by these allegations of her drinking so much.  I know pictures have been taken of her in the act, including during at least one pregnancy.  Even so, I am surprised she's able to stay so damned thin in spite of all the drinking (not to mention every other scene on TM shows the cast members eating out at a restaurant).  Another poster (I tried to find the post but could not) mentioned being able to spot an alcoholic a mile away. Does Maci fit that profile based on her thin build?  I know older adults who've been drinking for years often become thin and brittle looking, but I've always pictured younger ones to be more on the heavy side.  

Bud Light doesn't have that many calories though, and if she's drinking a lot of it, she may not be eating because the beer makes her full.

 

In all honesty though, I don't know that she necessarily binge drinks on non special occasions. While frequently spotted with a beer in hand, she could just be drinking 1 or 2.  You can get drinks from Starbucks that pack a lot more calories than 1-2 beers, even if she was drinking them every day.

 

While I don't condone knocking back shots when you're 13 weeks pregnant, as Maci has been accused of doing, I don't know that I think she has an alcohol problem. I agree with what @CofCinci posted awhile back, that Maci drinks beers around Taylor because that's what he does, and she wants to project the laid back, sporty, I'm just a beer and pizza kind of girl vibe that she thinks guys find attractive.

[GreatKazu]

@StayingAfterSunday Maci is also a smoker. Some people who are chronic smokers tend to be thin because they are addicted to the nicotine and tend to smoke more than they eat. Her mother is not bony thin like Maci. Maci could also be filling up on beers as @Tatum pointed out and maybe her only meal is dinner. 

[Rebecca]

On 1/3/2018 at 7:28 PM, Lm2162 said:

Yes, this 100 percent. I do think Chelsea has moments of self-righteousness, but Maci THRIVES on it. It's almost her main personality trait.

But..but..she’s bulletproof!!! ? 

On 1/4/2018 at 6:52 AM, Tatum said:

(Lessons I've learned so you don't have to...)

She really has the douchiest book titles possible. And you know she thought of them herself.

On 1/4/2018 at 8:14 AM, Tatum said:

Agreed. I've long thought that she was emotionally stunted at 17. The weird thing is she was probably the most mature of all the girls in the beginning. But she never progressed past the emotional maturity of a 17 year old, while a few-but not all- of the other girls did. Being immature when you're 17 is forgivable. Not so much when you're approaching your late 20s.

I’ve seen it said that having a baby as a teen can stunt emotional growth and leave people “stuck” at that age, kind of like addicts do. Just based on the fact I knew a lot of girls who had babies as teens, I’d say it’s fairly true. This theory also applies to most of the TMs but I think they’re also influenced greatly by all the undeserved money and ass kissing fans, so they have multiple reasons for being so stunted. (I don’t think this theory applies at all to older generations of teens that had kids, just in the last 20-30 years or so.)

I literally think every single person from both TM shows could use therapy. 

[ReadMeLattice]

On 1/4/2018 at 0:11 PM, StayingAfterSunday said:

Chelsea has, no doubt, matured.  I think she's one of the only girls on TM-OG and TM2 who has such a caring, involved father, and I believe this has been a major factor in Chelsea's decision making and overall adjustment to adulthood.  Maybe because she comes across so "together" and because Adam is no longer featured in her storyline, I I now find her (and Cole) boring and non-essential to the show, in general.  Then again, so are most of the so-called storylines and the people in them.  Still, I watch...

About Maci:  I am awed by these allegations of her drinking so much.  I know pictures have been taken of her in the act, including during at least one pregnancy.  Even so, I am surprised she's able to stay so damned thin in spite of all the drinking (not to mention every other scene on TM shows the cast members eating out at a restaurant).  Another poster (I tried to find the post but could not) mentioned being able to spot an alcoholic a mile away. Does Maci fit that profile based on her thin build?  I know older adults who've been drinking for years often become thin and brittle looking, but I've always pictured younger ones to be more on the heavy side.  

I will say that on my pettiest days I'm a little jealous of this, lololol. I dropped all my pregnancy weight quickly but as soon as I started drinking wine again--and not nearly as much as Maci seems to drink-- I gained at least half of it back! That stuff is calorie-heavy!

[Phoebe70]

Catelyn and Tyler are the exact reason why I chose international adoption for both my daughters (China).  I don't believe in open adoptions.  The adoptive parents are the ones who raise the children because the bio parents could not or would not.  Adoptive parents are the ones who are there for everything, good and bad.  When the child is sick, when the child is sad, when the child is in the Thanksgiving play at school.  The bio parents are not.  I'm sorry, but you can't (shouldn't) have your cake and eat it too.  You can't expect people to raise a child you gave birth to, and expect to be in and out of their lives when it is convenient for you.  It shouldn't work that way.  I understand that open adoptions work for some, but it's not for me.  I underwent years of fertility struggles, failed in-vitros, miscarriages, and a stillbirth when I was 6 months pregnant.  There's no way I could emotionally accept an open adoption.  I wonder if Brandon and Teresa are regretting getting involved with MTV.  All they want is some privacy for Carly, which is completely understandable.

Edited February 13, 2018 by Phoebe70