S30: Evan & Henry

[ProfCrash]

I don't think the other teams resent their career paths, I suspect that the other teams would hate the type of jobs Evan and Henry are likely to end up in. I do think that the other teams all have different interests and that there is not much in common between Yale and the others. I am not sure why the other teams are underselling Yale's physical abilities. It is clear that Evan and Henry are not as buff as a the professional athletes and a Marine but they have been able to keep up just fine.

When it gets down to it, Evan and Henry are used to diving in and learning about complex problems in a short amount of time and being able to make an informed argument one way or the other. They value books, debate and more academic pursuits. They are, for lack of a better term, nerds. And the nerds tend not to have much in common with the jocks. I doubt that there were too many overlapping interests and I suspect that Yale was more intense in how they approached making decisions. I don't think that the other teams dislike Yale, I think they all value different things and there is little overlap.

[Special K]

I'm sure the fact that they don't socialize with the others has nothing to do with envy or money jealousy. 

I find them to be fine and harmless but clueless and unaware in the ways that young people often are (yet thinking they are super-self-aware and on top of things - this seems more true of Evan, but maybe only because she talks more).  This kind of immaturity is probably, more than anything else, what is isolating them.  I don't feel especially like "bonding" or hanging out with the just-graduated at my workplace.

They'll be fine in time, and might/might not stay together, who cares.  I'm glad I wasn't filmed performing stunts under duress when I was 22, but of course they signed up for it.

ETA:  I bet they work for McKinsey.

Edited February 16, 2018 by Special K

[gibasi]

On 2/15/2018 at 3:56 PM, Mumbles said:

She seems the type to quit work after she gets her "MRS degree" but sweetie ain't gonna be giving it up for some scrub.

I don't see her as that at all and honestly don't know what gave you that impression.

I don't know where the resentment of this team comes from and if it were the earnings potential then why not the same resentment towards the athletes that are competing?  Even in a not mainstream sport like the Extreme team's skiing there is a lot to be made in endorsements.  I think it is may be that they are young and have that college thing going where they still like to use all of the multi-syllable words and try to prove their intellectual superiority.  I happen to like them despite all that and figure as they mature and their working relationships develop they see that not everyone who is smart has to do it the same way.

And maybe they don't mix with the other teams that much because they feel out of their element and don't know how to.

I hate the way it seems a lot of viewers are piling on for no real reason.

[Swingdancefan]

Was I the only debate geek who noticed the closeup on Evan doing the classic pen spin this week?

Yes?

Okay, carry on.

[scrb]

At the mat, they both threw out buzz words.  Henry said something about enjoying the process.  Evan said something equally ridiculous, all from the language of business consultants.

Oh well, they'll make their money by probably advising corporations to layoff thousands of people and then make their millions that way.

 

They weren't terribly methodical in the last two legs.  They tried guessing 3-digit numbers on both legs, which they have to know is not going to work.  Then they made too quick a decision on who'd do that climb up the bridge without realizing it.  Seems like as they approached the bridge anchoring, they realized what it was and just after Evan started climbing, one of them second guessed whether she should be doing this one.

[ProfCrash]

3 hours ago, scrb said:

They weren't terribly methodical in the last two legs.  They tried guessing 3-digit numbers on both legs, which they have to know is not going to work.  Then they made too quick a decision on who'd do that climb up the bridge without realizing it.  Seems like as they approached the bridge anchoring, they realized what it was and just after Evan started climbing, one of them second guessed whether she should be doing this one.

Or maybe they thought that Henry would be better at a final memorization task and were saving that for him? Evan did not take that much longer to complete that task and they got to the final task in front of Jessica and Cody so that decision was not a big deal. I have no clue why they did not look to find out the number of home runs before they go into the kayaks but Cody and Jess made the same bone headed mistake and it ended up not hurting anyone. Jen and Kristie did not have that much of a lead on the other teams.

[DEL901]

49 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

Or maybe they thought that Henry would be better at a final memorization task and were saving that for him? Evan did not take that much longer to complete that task and they got to the final task in front of Jessica and Cody so that decision was not a big deal. I have no clue why they did not look to find out the number of home runs before they go into the kayaks but Cody and Jess made the same bone headed mistake and it ended up not hurting anyone. Jen and Kristie did not have that much of a lead on the other teams.

Henry kept trying to discuss the symbols with Evan, but she kept putting him off.  

I like to think Henry knew that he had the answer and deliberately didn't ask for a check before making a change, just to passively aggressively stick it to Evan.

[AUJulia]

Her face after the loss said it all. She thought she was better than the other players, period. Henry deserves better. 

[Mumbles]

6 hours ago, scrb said:

Oh well, they'll make their money by probably advising corporations to layoff thousands of people and then make their millions that way.

But those people will deserve their layoffs because they didn’t attend Yale. I’m sure that is how that bitch rationalizes it.

Quote

 Henry deserves better. 

If there’s any benefit to them appearing on this show, it’s that now he and his family/friends can see what a bitch she is. Move on, Henry!

Edited February 22, 2018 by Mumbles

[amazingracefan]

I think she was very competitive but that's what you want on the race, I hope they get invited back.

[hendersonrocks]

Evan is obviously tightly wound and has a way of thinking and communicating that can rub some folks the wrong way. I have no problem with people disliking her and/or criticizing her for that. What I am struggling with - and am trying to find appropriate ways to voice - is the vitriol that seems to be aimed at her for going to Yale or having the job she has, especially when her partner seems to be getting very little criticism for sharing those same qualities. 

I wouldn't be down with dragging another racer for where they did or didn't go to school or what their job is or isn't. It's just disappointing to see that happening here, I guess.

[Roccos Brother]

I'm okay with them not winning if it increases the likelihood of them returning in the future. Fingers crossed!

[Mumbles]

There are plenty of people who have competed on this race with great credentials and had gone to good schools. (One of the Hippies had gone to Harvard).

But the only people I know who made it part of their "thing" was that jerk Scott from last year (who bragged about going to Harvard for grad school) and Bitch here. Obnoxious little snot.

[Chick2Chic]

I don't mind Evan. She can be type-A about things but for the most part she did not bother me. I think she and Henry will be fine. He seemed to take her strong personality in stride and spoke up when he felt the need. They don't need stereotypical gender roles in their relationship as they've been together for a while and seemed to be doing perfectly ok with things. Not sure about all the speculation and projecting about her feelings or his without substance but I'll be curious to see any post-race interviews featuring them or blogs from them to get how they actual felt/feel. 

[Scatterbrained]

5 hours ago, Mumbles said:

There are plenty of people who have competed on this race with great credentials and had gone to good schools. (One of the Hippies had gone to Harvard).

But the only people I know who made it part of their "thing" was that jerk Scott from last year (who bragged about going to Harvard for grad school) and Bitch here. Obnoxious little snot.

They were recruited for the show.  The network specifically wanted two people from Yale who did debate and were a couple.

https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2018/01/22/yale-alumni-star-on-reality-tv/

[Mumbles]

Interesting. Did the show force the uppity little Bitch to wear a Yale hat all the time?

Edited February 23, 2018 by Mumbles

[biakbiak]

55 minutes ago, Scatterbrained said:

They were recruited for the show.  The network specifically wanted two people from Yale who did debate and were a couple.

https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2018/01/22/yale-alumni-star-on-reality-tv/

What an extremely specific casting call!

[Mumbles]

5 hours ago, biakbiak said:

What an extremely specific casting call!

Strange, right? This account came from them and not the show. Makes me wonder if it's not true and they don't want to to admit they auditioned for the show on their own, that would be so un-Yale.

Quote

The amount of vitriol aimed at Evan and Jessica is troubling.   I feel like some are nearing school shooter levels of hate.  

First off, I think most people like him just fine. Second, it is very irresponsible to compare any of this to a tragedy like a school shooting. Nobody wants anything bad to happen to them. It is just some venting about a snotty elitist attitude by a person a year out of school. 

Edited February 23, 2018 by Mumbles

[biakbiak]

1 minute ago, Mumbles said:

Strange, right? This account came from them and not the show. Makes me wonder if it's not true and they don't want to to admit they auditioned for the show on their own, that would be so un-Yale.

It's more likely that they put out the casting call to other Ivy League/top rated universities debate associations and Evan and Henry were the ones cast because they still went through the audition process.

[ProfCrash]

I really don't understand the Evan hate. She is clearly an A-Type personality who is driven and comfortable stating her opinion. She didn't yell, she didn't hit. She encouraged Henry when he was working a task. She encouraged him too much and stopped when he asked her to stop. There were times that she was clearly wrong, like telling Henry that they didn't need to discuss the stickers, but she wasn't even close to abusive. Henry seemed to be just fine with Evan. He encouraged her and didn't show any type of body language or verbal language that he was unhappy with what Evan was saying or how she was acting.

I am sure that Production instructed them to wear Yale hats as part of their team uniform. Just like Production instructs teams to wear similar colors. I suspect that Production encouraged Jessica and Cody to wear lots of cami type clothing and Brittney and Lucas to wear their Ocean Rescue hats. I am sure that Production brought Yale up in all of their interviews with the teams. I am sure that Production encouraged Evan to discuss their process for approaching tasks and making decisions.

Evan and Henry strike me as smart young people who are well educated and very focused. I suspect that they will do fine in whatever careers they choose because they do not strike me as the type of folks who are willing to fail. I suspect that Evan will grow quite a bit as she ventures out from school and starts her career, just like most young people do when they leave college. I hav eno clue if the two will stay together. Evan does seem more vocal then Henry and more enthusiastic in many areas. I am not sure that they are a good fit but they will determine that. I wouldn't be surprised if they stop dating, that happens a lot with couples in their early to mid 20's.

[scrb]

Yeah Evan is not half as bad as Jessica.

[fishcakes]

2 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

I really don't understand the Evan hate. She is clearly an A-Type personality who is driven and comfortable stating her opinion.

Sadly, I understand it. If the last couple of years have shown us anything, it's that to a lot of people, the worst thing you can be is a smart, driven woman with opinions.

I think Evan can be a little pretentious, but so are a lot of 22-year-olds. I expect she'll grow out of it. She's more intense and Henry is more easy-going, but together, they were a good team and were kind and respectful to each other. We saw them have maybe three flashes of frustration total between them in the whole season. When I think of mismatched, miserable TAR couples, one of whom needs a FreeThisPerson hashtag, Evan and Henry don't come close to making that list.

[chaifan]

Totally agreeing with those that do not see where the intense hate for Evan comes from (I think someone used the word vitriol, and I think that's spot on in this situation).   Evan is smart and confident in her smarts.  I don't see any pretension about her - I think that has been projected by others because she doesn't hide her abilities.  And, yes, sometimes the way she expressed herself could be a bit sharp or annoying, but I'd take that any day in a TAR episode over Rachel (previous season and BB contestant) who had to pout and cry "I can't do it!" at every task.  I also don't see Henry at all as the trodden on boyfriend some people make him out to be.  These two really worked well together - most teams did this season, we saw very little intra-team bickering. 

Edited February 23, 2018 by chaifan

[fishcakes]

I find her way of speaking a little pretentious (the show poked some mild fun at her over it at the Bahrain mat, punctuating her comments with the falcon taking a dump), but I don't hold it against her.

[ProfCrash]

23 minutes ago, chaifan said:

Totally agreeing with those that do not see where the intense hate for Evan comes from (I think someone used the word vitriol, and I think that's spot on in this situation).   Evan is smart and confident in her smarts.  I don't see any pretension about her - I think that has been projected by others because she doesn't hide her abilities.  And, yes, sometimes the way she expressed herself could be a bit sharp or annoying, but I'd take that any day in a TAR episode over Rachel (previous season and BB contestant) who had to pout and cry "I can't do it!" at every task.  I also don't see Henry at all as the trodden on boyfriend some people make him out to be.  These two really worked well together - most teams did this season, we saw very little intra-team bickering. 

Seriously, people complain if a woman behaves like Flo or when Jess is useless catching the frogs but when a woman is confident and focused for the entire race they are pretentious and awful. Henry was willing to tell Evan when to calm down and she listened. Henry seemed fine when she said they agreed to take mass transit and not a cab. Henry never seemed to be annoyed by Evan. So she was the more vocal partner who was more forceful and that makes her a villain?

[scrb]

It's not polysyllabic words, which I wouldn't mind.

 

It's the buzzwords of their profession, talking about "process" this and "process" that.

They touted how they're methodical.  Well they weren't always.  Maybe they'll learn from that in their lives.

[AUJulia]

21 hours ago, Chick2Chic said:

I don't mind Evan. She can be type-A about things but for the most part she did not bother me. I think she and Henry will be fine. He seemed to take her strong personality in stride and spoke up when he felt the need. They don't need stereotypical gender roles in their relationship as they've been together for a while and seemed to be doing perfectly ok with things. Not sure about all the speculation and projecting about her feelings or his without substance but I'll be curious to see any post-race interviews featuring them or blogs from them to get how they actual felt/feel. 

For me it's not about stereotypical gender roles. It's about her nonstop chiding him on camera. If she were a guy I'd find it just as objectionable. Ironically, after her sternly and repeatedly telling him, with what I saw as barely-concealed anger, that he needed TO COMMUNICATE WITH HER, she essentially told him to shut up while they were collecting plane pieces and he wanted to discuss how the various stickers came into play. If she'd allowed this COMMUNICATION WITH HER, they probably would have won. 

[Roccos Brother]

I will say that while Evan does seem to act as though she believes she's smarter than everyone else in this competition... She would probably be correct in that assessment.

[Mumbles]

2 hours ago, Roccos Brother said:

I will say that while Evan does seem to act as though she believes she's smarter than everyone else in this competition... She would probably be correct in that assessment

Maybe but it would behoove her to adopt a less presumptive attitude. When you're lucky enough to meet truly smart people, it's amazing how many of them have an unassuming demeanors of people always willing to learn more and to acknowledge the limits of their knowledge. Read any random Nobel prize lecture.

Sadly there is no Nobel for management consulting so we will never be treated to her Nobel lecture. Alas, all that wisdom about core competencies, team efficiencies, and PowerPoint tips lost to the world.

[biakbiak]

I never got the impression that Evan thought she was superior to anyone. In fact unlike most of the other teams I can't remember either Evan or Henry making critical comments of any other team.

[Blissfool]

I don't mind how blunt or "unfriendly" Evan was with the other racers. Hey, she's not there to make friends and she had no obligation to help other racers. What I didn't like is that she spoke to Henry as if he was a child. She put him down and scolded him several times in each episode. (Ha! I wonder what would have happened if he was the one who lost the passport. Of course, we know that would never happen because we all know she's in charge of all that.  No way  does Henry get is paws on those important documents. )

Oh, and I don't like her up-speak.

[AUJulia]

18 hours ago, Roccos Brother said:

I will say that while Evan does seem to act as though she believes she's smarter than everyone else in this competition... She would probably be correct in that assessment.

Not when she's so immature. 

11 hours ago, biakbiak said:

I never got the impression that Evan thought she was superior to anyone. In fact unlike most of the other teams I can't remember either Evan or Henry making critical comments of any other team.

You don't think the "Y" caps, the repeated explanations of their skill sets and her side eyes count? I do. 

[Mumbles]

Quote

and I don't like her up-speak.

How could have anyone endured listening to this bitch debate for any period of time? Given that it’s a team, I have to think she was carried by the team. Can you imagine some client listening to this bitch tell them how to improve their business?  

[biakbiak]

28 minutes ago, AUJulia said:

ou don't think the "Y" caps, the repeated explanations of their skill sets and her side eyes count? I do. 

She actually reserved the Yale for the producer driven talking heads. RIghtly or wrongly they tended to comcentrate on what they viewed as their strengths but not in relation to other teams. Team Indy called them Wizards in I believe the Iceland leg and she was shocked, taken aback and delighted and i found it charming how she reacted because she was happy people thought they were a competitive team.

Edited February 24, 2018 by biakbiak

[Rinaldo]

41 minutes ago, AUJulia said:

You don't think the "Y" caps, the repeated explanations of their skill sets and her side eyes count?

No, I don't (not that I was the one asked). The caps are the sort of "team logo" on which production insists, and I'm aware of seeing them mostly in the close-up interviews. Likewise, production runs those "explain why you're strong" interviews to death and stages them often. I long since stopped giving such moments any weight, for any team. I judge a team on how they actually behave in the race, and it would take a saint to refrain from an occasional side-eye at these other teams. I know I would be guilty of it.

[Mumbles]

Quote

She actually reserved the Yale for the producer driven talking heads.

Actually she wears it in some challenges out in the sun, like the Bahrain episode.  Can’t fault her for wearing a hat in the sun, but I guess the poor little lamb couldn’t find another hat in the world without the Y on it.

I mean the fact that the other teams call them Team Yale should tell us how they’ve presented themselves to the rest of the teams. Otherwise they would just be called “Debate Team.”

[biakbiak]

56 minutes ago, Mumbles said:

Actually she wears it in some challenges out in the sun, like the Bahrain episode.  Can’t fault her for wearing a hat in the sun, but I guess the poor little lamb couldn’t find another hat in the world without the Y on it.

I mean the fact that the other teams call them Team Yale should tell us how they’ve presented themselves to the rest of the teams. Otherwise they would just be called “Debate Team.”

But as we know from many previous seasons e.g. Alanta Falcoms wives production dictates even things like clothing.

Edited February 24, 2018 by biakbiak

[SomeTameGazelle]

2 hours ago, Mumbles said:

Given that it’s a team, I have to think she was carried by the team.

However Henry's comments during the show about her performance directly contradict this speculation.  Evan as an individual debater was ranked very highly overall at Worlds -- 7th (1st among female debaters) in 2016 and 6th in 2017, both times ranked higher than the other member of her two-person team or anyone on any of the other Yale teams attending.

[Mumbles]

Yikes. Makes me wonder if everyone in college debate has uptalk and vocal fry just like her.

[Hera]

Evan has a very direct and assertive communication style that is pretty common in corporate and academic environments, especially among men. She has an opinion, she thinks it's right, and she'll tell you. If your opinion is different, she is ready to argue her side. I imagine her debate training encouraged it, since the goal of debate is to win, not to form a consensus with your opponent. I'm not surprised that it puts some people off, since I don't particularly enjoy interacting with this style of communication, either; however, I don't think she's a bitch for it. Henry was presumably well aware of how she communicates before they started dating, so I doubt he was shocked by anything about her behavior toward him on the race.

Another thing that seems to be putting people off is the confidence of this team—but why shouldn't they be? Given that they're both alumni of Yale and are now employed, I would bet that both of them have achieved every major goal they have set for themselves so far. As for the race specifically, they won two legs and came in second in the end. I would say that overall they did really well and their confidence in themselves was justified. It's not like they pronounced themselves one of the three strongest and most deserving teams left in the race and then went out fourth.*

On 2/23/2018 at 7:59 AM, ProfCrash said:

I am not sure that they are a good fit but they will determine that. I wouldn't be surprised if they stop dating, that happens a lot with couples in their early to mid 20's.

Exactly. There are a lot of ways people can grow apart, especially when you're making the transition between university to your career (and possibly grad school).

 

* And actually, I think Alex and Conor were justified in their self-confidence as well. I'm just pointing out that it was a competitive field that Evan and Henry were in and—if nothing else—they kept up. Plus, I'm not sure it's fair to accuse them of looking down on other teams when, in the final four, all the other teams accused them of being the weakest ones left.

[HawaiiTVGuy]

On 2/22/2018 at 1:08 PM, Mumbles said:

There are plenty of people who have competed on this race with great credentials and had gone to good schools. (One of the Hippies had gone to Harvard).

But the only people I know who made it part of their "thing" was that jerk Scott from last year (who bragged about going to Harvard for grad school) and Bitch here. Obnoxious little snot.

What is with the name-calling?  And as was pointed out by someone in the other thread, the mentions of Yale were not that frequent, pretty much it was debate debate debate, which is something they both did.

I don't get it, on the one hand, people hate on Evan for not being supportive enough of Henry and shutting down some of his queries and suggestions, and on the other hand, those same people hated her for cheering him on too much. 

On 2/22/2018 at 6:35 PM, Mumbles said:

Interesting. Did the show force the uppity little Bitch to wear a Yale hat all the time?

 

Oh you mean the same hat that Henry wore?

 

On 2/23/2018 at 7:09 AM, fishcakes said:

I find her way of speaking a little pretentious (the show poked some mild fun at her over it at the Bahrain mat, punctuating her comments with the falcon taking a dump), but I don't hold it against her.

Yeah the horrors that she actually likes using a full vocabulary, rather than trying to tack on random suffixes to a three letter word or use the same adjectives over and over.

 

On 2/23/2018 at 10:46 AM, AUJulia said:

For me it's not about stereotypical gender roles.

If she were a guy I'd find it just as objectionable. Ironically, after her sternly and repeatedly telling him, with what I saw as barely-concealed anger, that he needed TO COMMUNICATE WITH HER, she essentially told him to shut up while they were collecting plane pieces and he wanted to discuss how the various stickers came into play. If she'd allowed this COMMUNICATION WITH HER, they probably would have won. 

It may have helped for them to have stopped and discussed the stickers, the problem was they were so far behind the other two teams at that point that it was imperative to get the pieces first, then worry about the puzzle later.  Also, if the rules were they couldn't help with the puzzle at the plane, then they could only look at the pieces they were holding at a time.  I don't know at what point Henry brought up the symbols thing (first batch of pieces they picked up or some time later) but if it was later, by that point they couldn't collaborate on the symbols they already took to the plane building site.  

 

10 hours ago, AUJulia said:

Not when she's so immature. 

You don't think the "Y" caps, the repeated explanations of their skill sets and her side eyes count? I do. 

You mean stuff they are prompted to say in the THs?  Like how Indy Car and Team Xtreme drew on their sports backgrounds to give them an edge?  

9 hours ago, Mumbles said:

Actually she wears it in some challenges out in the sun, like the Bahrain episode.  Can’t fault her for wearing a hat in the sun, but I guess the poor little lamb couldn’t find another hat in the world without the Y on it.

I mean the fact that the other teams call them Team Yale should tell us how they’ve presented themselves to the rest of the teams. Otherwise they would just be called “Debate Team.”

I definitely can't fault her for not packing one more random hat just because you are offended by the fact she doesn't want to hide the fact she went to Yale.

Edited February 25, 2018 by HawaiiTVGuy

[AUJulia]

42 minutes ago, HawaiiTVGuy said:

What is with the name-calling?  And as was pointed out by someone in the other thread, the mentions of Yale were not that frequent, pretty much it was debate debate debate, which is something they both did.

I don't get it, on the one hand, people hate on Evan for not being supportive enough of Henry and shutting down some of his queries and suggestions, and on the other hand, those same people hated her for cheering him on too much. 

Oh you mean the same hat that Henry wore?

 

Yeah the horrors that she actually likes using a full vocabulary, rather than trying to tack on random suffixes to a three letter word or use the same adjectives over and over.

 

It may have helped for them to have stopped and discussed the stickers, the problem was they were so far behind the other two teams at that point that it was imperative to get the pieces first, then worry about the puzzle later.  Also, if the rules were they couldn't help with the puzzle at the plane, then they could only look at the pieces they were holding at a time.  I don't know at what point Henry brought up the symbols thing (first batch of pieces they picked up or some time later) but if it was later, by that point they couldn't collaborate on the symbols they already took to the plane building site.  

 

You mean stuff they are prompted to say in the THs?  Like how Indy Car and Team Xtreme drew on their sports backgrounds to give them an edge?  

I definitely can't fault her for not packing one more random hat just because you are offended by the fact she doesn't want to hide the fact she went to Yale.

1. Could you show us where the rules said they couldn't discuss the puzzle pieces as they collected them? TIA

2. No, she bragged, she was a snot, and she side-eyed. Henry didn't. 

[ItsJessMe]

Well, I am a confident, corporate, Ivy-educated (college and grad school) woman who generally uses poly-syllabic words if they are the right ones for the situation, and I couldn't stand Evan.  I thought she was self-satisfied and humorless.  And I hated not just the corporate speak but what I saw as overly therapized speak: "when you do this I...." and Henry's response "I hear you saying that....".  I wasn't a huge fan of Henry - too passive for my taste - but she bothered me more, from the first episode.

(My Harvard and Princeton educated husband liked them from the beginning and didn't understand my dislike - but by the last episode was pretty much on the same page I was on about her.)

[fishcakes]

12 hours ago, HawaiiTVGuy said:

On 2/23/2018 at 9:09 AM, fishcakes said:

I find her way of speaking a little pretentious (the show poked some mild fun at her over it at the Bahrain mat, punctuating her comments with the falcon taking a dump), but I don't hold it against her.

Yeah the horrors that she actually likes using a full vocabulary, rather than trying to tack on random suffixes to a three letter word or use the same adjectives over and over.

I like Evan and wasn't criticizing her, which I thought was pretty clear, so I feel like your response to me has a little more heat than necessary. Maybe I'm misinterpreting because you've quoted me along with posters who've been very negative towards her. But I do think she has a way of speaking that can be off-putting to some people, although it doesn't bother me personally.

[Swingdancefan]

19 hours ago, Mumbles said:

Yikes. Makes me wonder if everyone in college debate has uptalk and vocal fry just like her.

Maybe in natural conversation.  But people talk differently in competition. 

[Swingdancefan]

Henry and Evan talk about how they communicate, and more.

[Jillibean]

So here’s the thing. I didn’t like Evan. I thought she was critical of her partner above what was necessary, seemed insensitive to his feelings on multiple occasions, and clearly expected to get her way all the time. I very much did not want her to win. However, after reading some of the posts here, I actually feel like I need to defend her. Evan was irritating at times, but she didn’t, like, kill someone’s cat. She didn’t get herself arrested in Africa or say something culturally offensive. And I really, really don’t understand why it’s a problem for her to wear a Yale hat, even if production hadn’t asked her to bring and wear one, which I think we all know they did. (Racers have flat out said in the past that they are asked to wear certain colors or elements to identify their team, and I think production clearly assigned them to be team Yale, just as XGames wore pink and Big Brother wore camo.) People wear tons of college and university accessories, all the time. I just came back from a vacation where a third of the people I saw were wearing their Michigan/Nebraska/UNC/Penn state gear, to the extent that people were calling out to each other at the pool upon seeing alumni from the same school. I wear stuff with my college’s name on it all the time. Is there some sort of double standard wherein you’re not allowed to do this if the school you went to is particularly good? I’m sure Evan worked hard to get into Yale and worked hard once she was there. It’s a great school and she has every right to be proud. And they have such limited space to pack for so many climates and cirumstances—why on earth should she have to bring a second hat that doesn’t say Yale on it? I truly do not get why this is an offensive thing in any way.

[Lady Calypso]

5 hours ago, Swingdancefan said:

Henry and Evan talk about how they communicate, and more.

This was very insightful. It was nice to hear their responses to things that happened over the season, especially the response to Evan. I totally get how frustrating it can be around someone like Evan. But she never seemed like a bad person to me. Henry never seemed to mind Evan taking charge. Yes, she did talk down on him a few times. But Henry knows this about her. He's been her debate partner for years, so he knows what he can handle. He knows her in competitive situations, and he still chooses to be with her. I bet Amazing Race is far from a new type of environment for them in terms of stress and pressure. So chances are that he's come across this version of Evan many times, and he seems fully supportive of her, as she has of him. They have listened to each other and with both of them dealing with stress differently, it seems like when Henry's told Evan that he needs a break to think, she's listened. 

I particularly love Evan's answer to the question about their first Head to Head:

Quote

Evan: I think it was really important for us to realize that, because it was so early in the course of the race, we kept telling ourselves over and over again, “It doesn’t matter how many races we lose. We only have to win one.” (Laughs.) So we were pretty confident that we would be able to do that. [Also], I think recognizing the different things that give us energy was how we handled stress. I’m a pretty verbal person; I chatter and move around when I’m nervous. It got to a certain point when Henry told me that I needed to take a nap. (Laughs.) So he kind of just sat down, had some quiet time to himself. I had to step back and let him do that, but I appreciated that he was able to tell me that. And shortly after that was when he won the race, so it worked out well.

I think we have seen both Evan and Henry handle stress differently. Evan's right in that she does verbalize it, no matter what, while Henry tends to shut down. But I like them being able to explain that they do know that they handle stress differently and they are still capable of loving each other despite it. I only saw Henry get irritated twice, and that was the whole map situation from Bahrain and the final task (and to be fair, she was being annoying and irritating). Other than that, Henry managed to let everything roll off his back because at the end of the day, he knows Evan and he knows that she's not a bad person. 

As for Henry/Evan vs the other teams, it does seem like they had no idea how much the others disliked them (well, Evan). Maybe Evan thought that they were just being more anti-social, while the other teams seemed to believe she was being pretentious and rude. I think it's definitely a situational thing where both sides weren't communicating well. Evan/Henry, in particular, seemed to recognize it was still a race for money, and not a race for friendship. While Indy Car and Big Brother seemed to be literally offended that Evan was not trying to be friends with them. I think Kristi/Jen handled Team Yale the best, in that they didn't shit talk them in confessionals and they seemed to recognize that they didn't hate Henry/Evan, but they simply weren't close with them. 

Maybe it's because I can relate to Evan that I can see her side to things. I think I would act similarly to Evan in those high stress situations (but also Henry, in that I shut down during confrontations of anger), so I think I'm biased in my opinions for the team. 

[HawaiiTVGuy]

On 2/24/2018 at 5:38 PM, AUJulia said:

1. Could you show us where the rules said they couldn't discuss the puzzle pieces as they collected them? TIA

2. No, she bragged, she was a snot, and she side-eyed. Henry didn't. 

I didn't say they couldn't discuss while collecting the pieces but what I said was at that point they were the last team to arrive at the task and by all accounts far behind.  Stopping to talk about the pieces would have taken precious time when it was possible that Henry could have figured out the puzzle the first time with no collaboration and if they stop and talk about it, then he conceivably wouldn't even have a shot because the other teams would be done.  I also said that depending on at what point he brings it up, whatever pieces are already at the plane can't be discussed since they can't stand there and talk so it is possible by that point he would still be working with incomplete information.

She bragged to who at what point?  The THs?  Side-eyed who?  Henry for saying they shouldn't check the math?  She acted like a snot to who?  Kristi and Jessica because they asked her for help?  And she said, not right now, we want to check it out first?  How rude of her that she wanted to make sure she didn't give out information that could decide who gets eliminated.  Or when she wanted to keep the last symbol location under wraps?  None of Indycars "friends" helped them with that last clue location.  How snotty of them.

On 2/25/2018 at 5:45 AM, fishcakes said:

I like Evan and wasn't criticizing her, which I thought was pretty clear, so I feel like your response to me has a little more heat than necessary. Maybe I'm misinterpreting because you've quoted me along with posters who've been very negative towards her. But I do think she has a way of speaking that can be off-putting to some people, although it doesn't bother me personally.

I honestly don't know if I meant to respond to your post but if I did, I think I meant my posting to be agreeable and sarcasm directed at those who view the use of big words so negatively.

Evan isn't a saint and can rub people the wrong way (especially with her communication with Henry) but I find her a lot more tolerable than other racers because she doesn't actively put down others and seems to get through any issues with Henry quickly and actively communicate what she has issues with rather than be passive-aggressive.

[AUJulia]

3 hours ago, HawaiiTVGuy said:

I didn't say they couldn't discuss while collecting the pieces but what I said was at that point they were the last team to arrive at the task and by all accounts far behind.  Stopping to talk about the pieces would have taken precious time when it was possible that Henry could have figured out the puzzle the first time with no collaboration and if they stop and talk about it, then he conceivably wouldn't even have a shot because the other teams would be done.  I also said that depending on at what point he brings it up, whatever pieces are already at the plane can't be discussed since they can't stand there and talk so it is possible by that point he would still be working with incomplete information.

She bragged to who at what point?  The THs?  Side-eyed who?  Henry for saying they shouldn't check the math?  She acted like a snot to who?  Kristi and Jessica because they asked her for help?  And she said, not right now, we want to check it out first?  How rude of her that she wanted to make sure she didn't give out information that could decide who gets eliminated.  Or when she wanted to keep the last symbol location under wraps?  None of Indycars "friends" helped them with that last clue location.  How snotty of them.

I honestly don't know if I meant to respond to your post but if I did, I think I meant my posting to be agreeable and sarcasm directed at those who view the use of big words so negatively.

Evan isn't a saint and can rub people the wrong way (especially with her communication with Henry) but I find her a lot more tolerable than other racers because she doesn't actively put down others and seems to get through any issues with Henry quickly and actively communicate what she has issues with rather than be passive-aggressive.

You: "Also, if the rules were they couldn't help with the puzzle at the plane, then they could only look at the pieces they were holding at a time.  I don't know at what point Henry brought up the symbols thing (first batch of pieces they picked up or some time later) but if it was later, by that point they couldn't collaborate on the symbols they already took to the plane building site." IIRC they collected them before taking them on deck. 

I get it, you like her. I found her condescending. I also think that a guy chiding his female partner nonstop the way she did Henry would be considered a bully. Apparently you have more time to discuss this than I care to spend.