S02.E04: Beryl

[formerlyfreedom]

 

Quote

When Elizabeth and Philip throw a grand party for their 10th anniversary, both Margaret and the new Prime Minister experience romantic tribulations.

 

[formerlyfreedom]

Lord, is Matthew Goode dreamy to me. And I don't usually like men with that thin build, but, WOW.

Beautiful episode for Margaret. It makes my heart hurt to think about her, she just was looking for a place to belong, which didn't really exist, did it?

[Roseanna]

47 minutes ago, saoirse said:

Beautiful episode for Margaret. It makes my heart hurt to think about her, she just was looking for a place to belong, which didn't really exist, did it?

 I can feel no sympathy towards Margaret: she always complains and blames her sister although she herself could have made a different decision. Many people have suffered much more than Margaret without groveling or feeling sorry for themselves.

Margaret's real problem is that she was spoilt by her father and now she has no work, so she can spend all her nights with drinking and then sleep late. She is really much like Uncle David!

Spoiler

Also Philip has experienced much more hardships than Margaret when he was young and had no home nor family to help him (S2 ep 9).         

[Bananna]

Am I the only one who was bored stiff by the Margaret/Antony scenes? I don't know if it was the performances, the writing or the way the scenes in the photography studio were shot, I couldn't keep my attention going. Also, I'm continue to struggle to feel much sympathy for Margaret.

Wish we could have seen more of the Macmillans' situation; I found it infinitely more interesting than the Margaret/Antony saga.

[Renee in CA]

Yeah, there wasn't enough happening in the studio to catch my attention. Loved the MacMillans' story, I'm sure there's more to come!

[allonsyalice]

Honestly? Margaret blasting Ella Fitzgerald and getting super way too drunk is the biggest mood of 2017.

[Mindthinkr]

The costuming and set designs were beautiful in this episode. 

[Helena Dax]

Elizabeth may be the Queen, but Margaret is my Queen. She was amazing in this episode and I can understand why she feels trapped in her world. Loved her awkwardness at the party, which is interesting because I bet she'd feel more comfortable having dinner in a foreign country with foreign mandataries than having dinner in England with regular English people. And what she did in the end was absolutely awesome, I couldn't stop laughing. Everyone's reaction was priceless. And of course Uncle Edward and Aunt Wallis were delighted, hah. Although, tbh, my favourite one was Philip's. Did he have a good relationship with Margaret in RL? I have the feeling that they would understand each other quite well, they seem to have the same naughty streak. 

[Peace 47]

19 hours ago, saoirse said:

Lord, is Matthew Goode dreamy to me.

I’ve never paid attention to him before other than to know that he was on Downton Abbey (which I’ve never seen), but he sure looked striking in this episode.  Blonde-ish hair really suits him.  Great chemistry with the actress who plays Margaret, too.

I was actually captivated by the photo session scene and aftermath:  how it was juxtaposed with Cecil’s stuffy session at the beginning, how it exposed Margaret’s sense of feeling lost and off-balance.  And how she got that sense of freedom riding on the motorcycle with complete abandon while Elizabeth and Philip were bogged down in stuffy, unsexy governmental duties and a strained marriage.

[TaurusRose]

On 12/8/2017 at 6:05 PM, Bananna said:

Am I the only one who was bored stiff by the Margaret/Antony scenes? I don't know if it was the performances, the writing or the way the scenes in the photography studio were shot, I couldn't keep my attention going. Also, I'm continue to struggle to feel much sympathy for Margaret.

Wish we could have seen more of the Macmillans' situation; I found it infinitely more interesting than the Margaret/Antony saga.

No. I fought falling asleep most of the episode.

[WatchrTina]

On 12/8/2017 at 5:05 PM, Bananna said:

Am I the only one who was bored stiff by the Margaret/Antony scenes?

Nope.  I'm right there with you.  His wandering about knocking over chairs and making random noises, keeping her waiting, struck me as just obnoxious.

Was I the only one who was confused by Margaret's change of clothes?  I don't recall her brining a second outfit (and why would she?) but when she came downstairs for the foreplay by the developing chemicals she had on different clothes than what she wore during the photo shoot.  That was . . . confusing.

 

On 12/8/2017 at 5:05 PM, Bananna said:

Wish we could have seen more of the Macmillans' situation; I found it infinitely more interesting than the Margaret/Antony saga.

Oh me too.  I know nothing about that historical figure so I'm interested to see where that is leading but, alas, it may simply have been another example of upper-class marriages of convenience like the one Princess Margaret narrowly escaped.

[Eri]

Margaret's downward spiral was both interesting and sad to watch but the actress is so good! The next day when the Queen Mother was cheerfully trying to set her up with someone else and Margaret's yelling at her to stop to no avail had me in stitches. You can hear her screaming internally just from the facial expressions alone.

I've seen Matthew Goode in other films and he was rather dashing in those too - it's just weird seeing him as a blonde as he always plays the "tall, dark and handsome" role.

As spoiled as Margaret was, she can definitely hold her own - watching her lay the verbal smack-down on Billy Wallace and dumping him was most gratifying. She was definitely born before her time, I can picture her doing so much better had she been allowed to use her intelligence and charm outside of royal duties.

Edited December 10, 2017 by Eri

[dubbel zout]

On 12/8/2017 at 3:53 PM, saoirse said:

Lord, is Matthew Goode dreamy to me. And I don't usually like men with that thin build, but, WOW.

More like Matthew GOD, He's Good-Looking. Yowza. 

Margaret always wanted it both ways: to be treated like a princess and to be treated like a nonroyal. It doesn't work that way. That said, I think Vanessa Kirby is doing a fantastic job showing that dichotomy. 

[ProudMary]

Margaret's gold necklace worn at the dinner party was absolutely stunning.  I'm not normally a big jewelry person but I couldn't take my eyes off it!

[Cheezwiz]

Interesting episode - it's hard for me to have much sympathy with Margaret as I've read too much about her real life personality. She was actually quite a horrid woman in real life - forget the fairy tale about her being an interesting bohemian with a wild streak - although capable at times of charm and wit, she was a mean drunk, and apparently LOVED lording her royal status over others. I have a feeling that if she HAD married Captain Townsend, she would have eventually gotten bored with him and dropped him like a hot potato.

On 12/8/2017 at 1:57 PM, Roseanna said:

Margaret's real problem is that she was spoilt by her father and now she has no work, so she can spend all her nights with drinking and then sleep late. She is really much like Uncle David!

  Reveal hidden contents

Also Philip has experienced much more hardships than Margaret when he was young and had no home nor family to help him (S2 ep 9).         

Yep, THIS. They were both dissolute and feckless. However, damn, Vanessa Kirby is doing a bang-up job playing her!

I looked up the story of Prime Minister McMillan, and the menage-a-trois with his wife and a rival politician. Very sad story.

Sets and costumes this episode were gorgeous. Loved the close-out song "I Only Have Eyes For You".

Eye candy bonus! I didn't know Matthew Goode had been cast as the future Lord Snowden. SWOON. Although I much prefer him with dark hair as it sets off his blue eyes.

I've only gotten as far as this episode, so I'm curious to see if they'll depict Margaret's wedding. She had one of the most beautiful wedding gowns ever.

[spaceghostess]

Really enjoyed this episode; the chemistry between Margaret and Tony definitely worked for me.

This, I believe, is The Photo.

 

ETA: Yup, I was completely wrong about this photo; it's actually a portrait from 1950, and therefore pre-dates Tony altogether. Apologies, and carry on!

Edited December 12, 2017 by spaceghostess

[dubbel zout]

11 hours ago, ProudMary said:

Margaret's gold necklace worn at the dinner party was absolutely stunning.  I'm not normally a big jewelry person but I couldn't take my eyes off it!

The attention to detail spent on the jewelry for this series has been amazing. I wonder how much of the reported $100 million budget went to that.

7 hours ago, spaceghostess said:

The Photo.

I had to laugh at the Queen Mother's pearl-clutching "She looks naked!" Not really; bare shoulders in a portrait wasn't unusual.

[Roseanna]

It was a splendid idea to begin Margaret and Tony's story with a wedding formula: the wrong and good reasons to marry. 

Spoiler

They chose the wrong reasons in ep 7.

[NeverLate]

Margaret came to our school, and she was absolutely beautiful Seeing her downward spiral is so sad. I recall when Antony, wore a pin strip suit. It made headlines,, because that was not the thing to wear!.  He took a beautiful photo of her though.. he caught her vulnerability , in that photo.., handsome devil..LOL( the real one and  Matthew Goode ) They had great chemistry..she's alone, and Elizabeth is alone. It's truly sad, and Foy is looking more and more like the queen, its uncanny!

What a great show, well done Netflix

[Cheezwiz]

38 minutes ago, NeverLate said:

Foy is looking more and more like the queen, its uncanny!

What a great show, well done Netflix

Agree! In contemporary clothes, I would probably never see a resemblance, but in costume, she is totally convincing as the young Queen. She has the same clear blue eyes. What I find especially uncanny is how well she's managed to imitate the Queen's speaking voice. She's not just doing a generic upper-crust accent - she's totally managed to modulate her voice to sound like the Queen's. 

I understand this is Claire Foy's final season - she totally knocked it out of the park. I understand Olivia Colman (who I LOVE) will be taking over as the middle-aged Queen. Olivia has big brown eyes, so I'm wondering if they are going to give her blue contacts? One thing I associate with the Queen's look is her blue eyes.

Anyhow, I'm burning through the episodes, and am going to be bummed that I'll probably have to wait another year to watch more! Even I managed to get thoroughly sucked into a soap-operized show about stuffy royals!

[NeverLate]

14 minutes ago, Cheezwiz said:

Agree! In contemporary clothes, I would probably never see a resemblance, but in costume, she is totally convincing as the young Queen. She has the same clear blue eyes. What I find especially uncanny is how well she's managed to imitate the Queen's speaking voice. She's not just doing a generic upper-crust accent - she's totally managed to modulate her voice to sound like the Queen's. 

I understand this is Claire Foy's final season - she totally knocked it out of the park. I understand Olivia Colman (who I LOVE) will be taking over as the middle-aged Queen. Olivia has big brown eyes, so I'm wondering if they are going to give her blue contacts? One thing I associate with the Queen's look is her blue eyes.

Anyhow, I'm burning through the episodes, and am going to be bummed that I'll probably have to wait another year to watch more! Even I managed to get thoroughly sucked into a soap-operized show about stuffy royals!

I love her stance, she holds herself just like the queen, and her walk, she has that down pat. It will be very interesting to see Coleman, especially after Foy.

When Elizabeth was watching the ballet dancer, I could of cried for her, she wasn't about to, she held it all in.

I've googled a lot of Lord Snowden, the rascal! 

[txhorns79]

Quote

And how she got that sense of freedom riding on the motorcycle with complete abandon while Elizabeth and Philip were bogged down in stuffy, unsexy governmental duties and a strained marriage.

I honestly wished they were a little more subtle with everything.  I wanted to be like: "I get it.  Liz and Philip's life is boring and duty bound, while Margaret's life is exciting."  The only thing they didn't do was have Elizabeth wear a facemask, curlers and perhaps read the Bible in bed. 

[irisheyes]

On 12/8/2017 at 4:57 PM, Roseanna said:

 I can feel no sympathy towards Margaret: she always complains and blames her sister although she herself could have made a different decision. Many people have suffered much more than Margaret without groveling or feeling sorry for themselves.

Margaret's real problem is that she was spoilt by her father and now she has no work, so she can spend all her nights with drinking and then sleep late. She is really much like Uncle David!

I think what this episode shows is that Margaret needed a cause/job. She was raised by a Victorian mother who taught her that her mission in life was to marry, run a household, and carry on discreet affairs. Unfortunately, the world changed, and yet Margaret (nor her mother) changed with it. Previous “spares” married European royalty, and that was that. Sadly, for Margaret, she never found a purpose, which is sad, because it seems that she was the brighter of the two sisters, and there was so much good she could have done in this world. Instead, we see her wasting her life with an endless round of parties. 

[rubyred]

38 minutes ago, irisheyes said:

I think what this episode shows is that Margaret needed a cause/job. She was raised by a Victorian mother who taught her that her mission in life was to marry, run a household, and carry on discreet affairs. Unfortunately, the world changed, and yet Margaret (nor her mother) changed with it. Previous “spares” married European royalty, and that was that. Sadly, for Margaret, she never found a purpose, which is sad, because it seems that she was the brighter of the two sisters, and there was so much good she could have done in this world. Instead, we see her wasting her life with an endless round of parties. 

Margaret may have needed a cause/job, but I don't think we've seen any indication that she wanted one.

Spoiler

When Elizabeth tells her flat out that Margaret liked being a princess to much to give it up, I actually cheered out loud.

Additionally, I would have preferred to have been shown rather than told that she was such a sparkling wit. For me she veers from spoiled brat to rude bitch, barely civil to anyone who doesn't anticipate her every wish. She was fascinated by Tony Armstrong-Jones because he negged her and that turned her on; there's nothing particularly modern or earth-shattering about being a poor little rich girl who runs off on the bad boy's motorcycle.

That said...Vanessa Kirby is really doing an amazing job. While I still don't like Margaret much (and I don't necessarily think the show is trying to make me like her), Kirby really infuses a lot of layers into her performance. I get right to the verge of empathizing with Margaret...and then she says or does something so very...Margaret... and I'm right back where I started. Kirby is killing it. 

I was a little bemused by the amount of time they spent on Armstrong-Jones. Was it just because they got Matthew Goode for the role? He comes across as about as trifling as you could imagine.

Spoiler

And the sex scenes, I was like, what the hell show am I watching? Not because I don't like sex scenes but because tonally it felt jarring for this show.

Also...this show is about the Crown, I am not as interested in what is going on with the manchildren in this family, please let me watch Claire Foy convey complete emotional devastation without so much as the flicker of an eyelash.

Edited December 11, 2017 by rubyred
Added spoiler tags just in case I've conflated episodes.

[Eri]

On 12/10/2017 at 7:11 PM, rubyred said:

Spoiler

And the sex scenes, I was like, what the hell show am I watching? Not because I don't like sex scenes but because tonally it felt jarring for this show.

 

Spoiler

I agree - it threw me off balance to see those risque scenes because I'm so used to watching stuffy English aristocrats holding onto their conservative values with a little innuendo here and there.

Edited December 13, 2017 by saoirse
Spoiler tags

[Linderhill]

Quote

I was actually captivated by the photo session scene and aftermath:  how it was juxtaposed with Cecil’s stuffy session at the beginning, how it exposed Margaret’s sense of feeling lost and off-balance. 

I wasn't because the darkroom scenes threw me out of the scene.  I'm a photographer and have worked in darkrooms, the tongs were wrong (that struck me first), it was too bright, etc.  I also was put off by the idiocy of him banging around uselessly over her head.  What an ass.  I remember seeing Matthew Goode on the Good Wife, and he's doing a great job despite those photographic errors.  

[NeverLate]

My uncle was a photographer, and growing up I was able to go in his darkroom. He had tongs..as for being bright, I think that's so we the viewer could see..

Quote

Spoiler

I agree - it threw me off balance to see those risque scenes because I'm so used to watching stuffy English aristocrats holding onto their conservative values with a little innuendo here and there.

 

Not me, the English are not uptight about sex!..lol

Edited December 13, 2017 by saoirse
Spoiler tag

[Linderhill]

not those tongs.  The ones Margaret was playing with are the ones you use with film, not the prints in trays.  Those are different.

[Spotlight]

Funny how she mentionned she thought he was a queer. Were there any rumours about him being gay?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Although MacMillan is annoying (interrupters and overtalkers are THE WORST), I felt sorry for him when he overheard his wife saying that she's repelled by his weakness and can't stand to have him touch her. That's gotta hurt.

I had to laugh at the contrast between Billy's honorable description of what happened during the duel and the sniveling mess we saw him actually being. Margaret was better off without him!

We've seen that Margaret loves being social and the center of attention, so it was strange to see her so awkward at the dinner party. Poor Margaret - she deserves better than someone who, in her own words, "has contempt for her." It appears that Margaret was so desperate to break the rules that she fell for the first pick up artist she met.

On 12/10/2017 at 8:12 AM, dubbel zout said:

I had to laugh at the Queen Mother's pearl-clutching "She looks naked!" Not really; bare shoulders in a portrait wasn't unusual.

I know, right? I remember when we did our senior high school portraits, all the girls were given this piece of black fabric that looked like an off the shoulder dress (which, in reality, was only a few inches long because we were being photographed from the shoulder up). The photographers had us turn at different angles so there were a few shots where one shoulder was turned all the way to the front and the other shoulder was in the back (often covered by hair) so it looked like we were naked. But no one actually assumed that any of the girls were actually naked.

22 hours ago, Spotlight said:

Funny how she mentionned she thought he was a queer. Were there any rumours about him being gay?

From wikipedia:

Quote

To most of the women who worked in his Pimlico Road studio, there seemed little doubt that Snowdon was gay or bisexual; he said about such rumours, "I didn't fall in love with boys — but a few men have been in love with me." In his 2009 memoir, Redeeming Features, British interior designer Nicholas Haslam claimed that he had an affair with Snowdon before the latter's marriage to Princess Margaret and that Snowdon had also been the lover of Tom Parr, another leading interior designer.

Edited December 12, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo
Weird formatting issue

[Roseanna]

6 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Poor Margaret - she deserves better than someone who, in her own words, "has contempt for her." It appears that Margaret was so desperate to break the rules that she fell for the first pick up artist she met.

Well, Margaret chose him herself and is responsible for her choice just as much he. 

Why would Margaret "deserve" a better man (as if that mattered in life)? So self-centered she is, she would probably have made him unhappy.   

She is pretty and HRH, but we haven't seen nothing special and admirable her in her. She is spoiled, pities herself and blames others for her unhappiness, is jealous of her sister and full of glee when she is notices that also she is unhappy.   

6 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Although MacMillan is annoying (interrupters and overtalkers are THE WORST), I felt sorry for him when he overheard his wife saying that she's repelled by his weakness and can't stand to have him touch her. That's gotta hurt.

Yes, but why would he stay married? She has had an affair for years and all know it. Eden and several ministers have divorced,  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

30 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

Well, Margaret chose him herself and is responsible for her choice just as much he. 

Why would Margaret "deserve" a better man (as if that mattered in life)? So self-centered she is, she would probably have made him unhappy.   

She is pretty and HRH, but we haven't seen nothing special and admirable her in her. She is spoiled, pities herself and blames others for her unhappiness, is jealous of her sister and full of glee when she is notices that also she is unhappy.    

 

25 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

Yes, but why would he stay married? She has had an affair for years and all know it. Eden and several ministers have divorced,  

Because in both cases (and as far as I'm concerned, in ALL cases for everyone in the world), no one deserves to be with someone who looks down on them or doesn't want to be with them.

People change. Maybe MacMillan's wife was a nice person when they got married. Or maybe she hid what a terrible person she was until after they were married.

Just because you choose someone doesn't mean you deserve to be treated with contempt. Eileen chose Mike, but she certainly didn't deserve a husband who was gone all the time and cheating on her whether he was in the country or gallivanting around the world for his job.

Some people think marriage is forever. I'm not one of those people. I think that life is too short to be in an unhappy situation, so if that means getting a divorce, do it. But some people are very decidedly against divorce. I don't know anything about MacMillan or his religious views so I have no idea why he stayed married to his cheating wife. Maybe he didn't want to deal with the scandal. Maybe he believed her when she said she would end the affair. Maybe, like Dickie, he's in love with his cheating wife. Maybe his family is very religious and would disown him for getting divorced. Maybe he thought a divorce would ruin his career.

[Spotlight]

7 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Although MacMillan is annoying (interrupters and overtalkers are THE WORST), I felt sorry for him when he overheard his wife saying that she's repelled by his weakness and can't stand to have him touch her. That's gotta hurt.

I had to laugh at the contrast between Billy's honorable description of what happened during the duel and the sniveling mess we saw him actually being. Margaret was better off without him!

We've seen that Margaret loves being social and the center of attention, so it was strange to see her so awkward at the dinner party. Poor Margaret - she deserves better than someone who, in her own words, "has contempt for her." It appears that Margaret was so desperate to break the rules that she fell for the first pick up artist she met.

I know, right? I remember when we did our senior high school portraits, all the girls were given this piece of black fabric that looked like an off the shoulder dress (which, in reality, was only a few inches long because we were being photographed from the shoulder up). The photographers had us turn at different angles so there were a few shots where one shoulder was turned all the way to the front and the other shoulder was in the back (often covered by hair) so it looked like we were naked. But no one actually assumed that any of the girls were actually naked.

From wikipedia:

Thank u for the quote dear

[MarysWetBar]

I have a rather juicy story about Margaret. Back in the 70s, my father was the general manager of a hotel. Margaret stayed there while in the city on royal duty...i believe it was the opening of the university. My dad got a call at home one evening asking him to come to the hotel ASAP. I remember him telling my mother later in hushed tones that there had been a "situation" that required discretion, so they called him for direction. 

Turns out Maggie had passed out in the hallway outside her room...pissed to the gills. Had gone looking for ice and couldn't quite make it all the way back to her room. Was pretty combative and swore like a sailor when they woke her moving her into her room. ?

The funniest part was i can remember my mom was almost a bit jealous about it, as I think Margaret was a bit of a party girl back then and likely didnt like the thought of my dad in her hotel room. 

Edited December 12, 2017 by MarysWetBar

[Cheezwiz]

2 hours ago, MarysWetBar said:

I have a rather juicy story about Margaret. Back in the 70s, my father was the general manager of a hotel. Margaret stayed there while in the city on royal duty...i believe it was the opening of the university. My dad got a call at home one evening asking him to come to the hotel ASAP. I remember him telling my mother later in hushed tones that there had been a "situation" that required discretion, so they called him for direction. 

Turns out Maggie had passed out in the hallway outside her room...pissed to the gills. Had gone looking for ice and couldn't quite make it all the way back to her room. Was pretty combative and swore like a sailor when they woke her moving her into her room. ?

The funniest part was i can remember my mom was almost a bit jealous about it, as I think Margaret was a bit of a party girl back then and likely didnt like the thought of my dad in her hotel room. 

Wow! Fab story @MarysWetBar! Not to mention you have a subject-appropriate user-name! Thanks for sharing!

[NeverLate]

21 hours ago, Spotlight said:

Funny how she mentionned she thought he was a queer. Were there any rumours about him being gay?

Not that I had heard or read- he just hung with a very artsy crowd( even after they married) 

[Cheezwiz]

21 minutes ago, NeverLate said:

Not that I had heard or read- he just hung with a very artsy crowd( even after they married) 

The story seems to be that he was bisexual - numerous affairs with both women and men. He also had a couple of children with side-flings during his marriage -later confirmed with DNA testing.  A couple of prominent men have come forward since his death and claimed to have had affairs with him. It wasn't public knowledge during their marriage, but Armstrong's sexuality was something Margaret frequently goaded him about.

[Primetimer]

And apparently smoking is sexy again.

View the full article

[NeverLate]

7 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

The story seems to be that he was bisexual - numerous affairs with both women and men. He also had a couple of children with side-flings during his marriage -later confirmed with DNA testing.  A couple of prominent men have come forward since his death and claimed to have had affairs with him. It wasn't public knowledge during their marriage, but Armstrong's sexuality was something Margaret frequently goaded him about.

I knew about his other children, Polly and Jasper,I hadn't heard he was bisexual, it wouldn't surprise me though

[spaceghostess]

3 hours ago, PreviouslyTV said:

And apparently smoking is sexy again.

View the full article

First of all, thank you. The Fug Girls are brilliant, and I'm thrilled beyond measure to be able dive into hilarious, incisive recaps again. Clearly, my donation went to a good cause! Secondly, I will stoop to quote to myself in support of my theory that the Armstrong-Jones photo of Margaret linked in the recap isn't "the one".

On 12/10/2017 at 3:15 AM, spaceghostess said:

Really enjoyed this episode; the chemistry between Margaret and Tony definitely worked for me.

This, I believe, is The Photo.

ETA: Okay, back to say that I'm officially retracting my theory, having more thoroughly researched this photo and learned that it's from 1950, so TOO early, and Armstrong -Jones couldn't have taken it.  Also, the Armstrong-Jones portrait Jessica posted is so much more beautiful and artistic, and most probably the inspiration for the one taken in the episode. Will now skulk away to wallow in my wrongness . . .

Edited December 12, 2017 by spaceghostess
Being totally wrong

[Runningwild]

9 hours ago, PreviouslyTV said:

And apparently smoking is sexy again.

View the full article

I don’t think it’s sexy at all. I was quite distracted by all the smoke in the air. All I could think was how horrible that room must smell and how hard it would be to breathe in there. 

 

Am I the only one who has trouble with the main site? I always get an error. 

Edited December 13, 2017 by Runningwild

[lafcolleen]

I disagree with Jessica's comment that Margaret liked Tony because he was honest.

I was struck by that comment because Jessica recognized his interactions as negging.

He isn't honest abegging.

And he was negging her.

I disliked Tony a lot. (But Goode is excellent in the role).

His flirting with her is everything I hate in a come on.

*his questions were mocking and borderline cruel (if you thought someone was still in love with an ex, why would you disparage the ex? He is not her get a grip friend);

*his questions weren't about getting a honest reaction from her - they were loaded with judgment so that she would perform to get his approval;

*his whole "I know you better than you know yourself" is classic gaslighting;

*he was very self protective of himself and yet thought nothing of demanding that she be emotionally vulnerable;

*he seems like the type that will be a verbally vicious fight and use any vulnerability against you.

For all those reasons, I really really hate the character. I find him distinctly unchanging.

Billy was just an idiot.

Tony is mean.

[lafcolleen]

I disagree with Jessica's comment that Margaret liked Tony because he was honest.

I was struck by that comment because Jessica recognized his interactions as negging.

He isn't honest abegging.

And he was negging her.

I disliked Tony a lot. (But Goode is excellent in the role).

His flirting with her is everything I hate in a come on.

*his questions were mocking and borderline cruel (if you thought someone was still in love with an ex, why would you disparage the ex? He is not her get a grip friend);

*his questions weren't about getting a honest reaction from her - they were loaded with judgment so that she would perform to get his approval;

*his whole "I know you better than you know yourself" is classic gaslighting;

*he was very self protective of himself and yet thought nothing of demanding that she be emotionally vulnerable;

*he seems like the type that will be a verbally vicious fight and use any vulnerability against you.

For all those reasons, I really really hate the character. I find him distinctly unchanging.

Billy was just an idiot.

Tony is mean.

He isn't honest at all. Stupid tiny phone keyboard.

[Roseanna]

23 hours ago, PreviouslyTV said:

And apparently smoking is sexy again.

View the full article

Jessica wrote: "Meanwhile, Philip and Elizabeth go through a tedious nighttime routine -- prayers, flannel nightgown, a sexless goodnight and lights out. I almost don't know if we needed this bit; we've spent the last season seeing how totally passionless this marriage is."

While passionless is true in this episode because Margaret and Tony need a contrast (besides, every marriage has such nights), I don't agree that the claim is generally true about Elizabeth and Philip's marriage, Remember S1 ep2 and S2 ep. 1

Spoiler

And the end of Vergangenheit. 

There were two kinds of film stars: Marilyn Monroe radiated sex directly, Grace Kelly hid passion under a restrained apperance. Some like the former style, other the latter.     

In this case, to Margaret and Tony sex is a power play which is no guarantee to happiness. 

[rubyred]

Rewatching this (which was actually kind of a chore, which I find to be true of most Margaret-centric episodes) it occurred to me that the thing about Margaret and Tony is that while the actors have chemistry, the characters do not. There is no indication that Margaret and Tony like each other the littlest bit, they're always trying to score points. If Margaret isn't snapping at servants or sniping at her sister, she's trying to intimidate Tony with the perceived glamour of her "status"; meanwhile Tony Tryhard is being, oh, so bohemian, darling whilst working out his mommy issues.  Both actors are doing phenomenal jobs, and I'm fascinated by how Vanessa Kirby is deepening her voice, (no doubt in keeping with Margaret's chainsmoking,) yet maintaining that royal accent. But this show has so many more interesting things going on that I can cheerfully skip most Margaret, Tony and Philip stuff after one viewing, and re-binge everything else.

[Roseanna]

Quote

Was he really as dreary as he seemed?" he asks. Margaret looks very sad at this. "He was decent and old-fashioned," she says. "Easy qualities to mock. Easy to miss, too." At this, Tony stands behind her and slowly slips the straps of her dress off her shoulders, but goes no further. "Do you miss him?" he asks. Here's what else I think Margaret finds appealing about Tony: he (a) is honest and (b) really seems to want to hear truthful answers to the questions he's asking her. "Sometimes," she says. And...click. Got it.

If a person you have just met asks you about your ex, would you really trust him so much that you will answer honestly? Especially if you are a person about whose romance had been told in the press - wouldn't you be suspicious that your acquaintance doesn't sell his information to the press or at least gossip about it?  

[WatchrTina]

6 hours ago, rubyred said:

they're always trying to score points. If Margaret isn't snapping at servants or sniping at her sister, she's trying to intimidate Tony with the perceived glamour of her "status"; meanwhile Tony Tryhard is being, oh, so bohemian

If the Vanity Fair article that is linked to somewhere on this board is in any way accurate, that one-upmanship was a real thing.  The article (which is actually an excerpt from a recently released book) suggests that Tony and Margaret each assumed that THEY would be the dominant player in the relationship and neither was able to cope with the idea of being in the other's shadow.  That conflict built over time, leading to some very petty and hostile behavior between them and, ultimately, to divorce.

[Constantinople]

I hope someone told Lady Mary that her husband is hitting on Princess Margaret

[Cheezwiz]

4 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

I hope someone told Lady Mary that her husband is hitting on Princess Margaret

The Crown/Downton crossovers are quite funny.

[HeatherNC]

  On 12/12/2017 at 2:08 AM, NeverLate said:

Not that I had heard or read- he just hung with a very artsy crowd( even after they married) 

The story seems to be that he was bisexual - numerous affairs with both women and men. He also had a couple of children with side-flings during his marriage -later confirmed with DNA testing.  A couple of prominent men have come forward since his death and claimed to have had affairs with him. It wasn't public knowledge during their marriage, but Armstrong's sexuality was something Margaret frequently goaded him about.

That's what I've heard as well. I think today he'd probably identify as pansexual.