S01.E04: The Disappointment of the Dionne Quintuplets

[formerlyfreedom]

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Midge begins to move on from her once perfect life. Susie shows Midge the ropes while going on a tour of New York comedy clubs. Rose takes a bit too much pleasure in Midge's new living arrangements.

 

[MorganSte]

I really feel like we're seeing New York, 1958.  I love all the name checking of the old comics and Red at the Copa.  

I keep expecting Suzy to pull out some Kerouac, must be her hat.

[aradia22]

More Barbra!

I still don't get the point of the flashbacks. If they wanted to set up the whole relationship in chronological order and then devastate us with a breakup that would be one thing. And we're already on Midge's side. But unless they want us to want them to get back together I see no point in these flashbacks to when their relationship was good. It's not like we spent Gilmore Girls going over Lorelei's relationship with Rory's dad. 

Oy. Stop being so obvious. Flashing to her photos of Montgomery Clift, Rock Hudson, and Danny Kaye... fine. Obsessing over Liberace until we're sure everyone's got the joke. Awkward. Part of the enjoyment of a period piece is not hanging a lampshade on everything so we know you're making a reference.

Now Susie also suddenly has a black friend?

Parisian cocoa? That reminds me. What happened to her mom obsessing about weight and appearances?

I feel like the TV thing was just supposed to be a joke. And because beating/spanking a child for being a brat is not something that usually reads well in a comedy.

I felt like it was coming but I still enjoyed seeing Miriam's mom run to the bathroom to do the same nighttime routine. Still, I don't care what magazine article you can dredge up. I don't really believe all or even most women would have gone through that kind of nonsense. Sure, a lot of them didn't have to work. But they still had to cook and clean (unless there were maids) and take care of the children (unless there were nannies). And even then, what kind of idiotic man hasn't seen a woman without makeup?

Bing Crosby joke. Sigh...

Oh, see, of all the comics she picked Red Foxx. *eyeroll* With the clumsy way they're handling race, I'd almost rather they didn't bother. Curious if there are any POC on the writing staff.

Ugh... Kennedy reference. Stop writing from the future. 

Eyeroll at Miriam taking over the rally and temporarily becoming a leading voice in the advocacy of... something. Sort of feminism? Don't give me fake progressive characters. It is beneath you and it insults the viewer's intelligence to pander like that. You want to tell that story? Write a compelling show about an actual activist.

How did Joel afford such a nice apartment and furnishing said apartment so nicely? Did his dad really bankroll all of that? Why!?! 

It really does feel like it would be a harsh blow for Joel to recreate their life but just with Penny. Sure he's a bum and she's better off without him but saying he's dissatisfied with how his life turned out and then seeming to adopt most of that same life again... but without her and the kids? 

I'm enjoying the use of musical theater music as well as all the standards, jazz, etc.

Steve Rosen! I love spotting Broadway people.

I kept staring at the notebook. I was just waiting for her to lose it. 

I liked seeing the different clubs. The Copa was the most fun but I feel like it should have been a bit more glamorous. It looked like what it probably was... a cheap wedding hall venue. That stage was rough.

That... didn't seem like a great Red Skelton impression.

That moment when Midge pictured herself on stage seemed significant. It was like her ambition kicked in and suddenly she could see herself getting the fame and adulation. Because up to this point, aside from the confessional aspect, it hasn't really been clear why she's pursuing this. She told Susie that this had to work out for her but we've gotten no signal that she thinks this is a viable way to support herself and her children.

So she's 26. I've been wondering. Peggy does NOT look 21, btw.

[OtterMommy]

The scene that really got to me in this episode was when she was talking about Kennedy and Nixon with her father and disagreeing with him and her mother's immediate response was, "Why are you baiting your father?"  I wish I could say this was an outdated sentiment, but I've been in Midge's shoes in that situation more times than I can count.

I also felt the scene with Susie and Midge sharing fries was very touching and done with an appropriately delicate touch.

[neciamorris]

This episode was simply gorgeous. The opening sequence was beautifully filmed and masterfully scored. Streisand’s Happy Days should have been so on the nose you should I rolled your eyes, but when the transitioned from NYE to present day and she was wearing the same dress gazing at that painting. Just gorgeous

 

For me that opening was the foundation for another fantastic episode. Midge is moving forward in her way, intent on being good at this new version of herself: she’s studying the art of comedy, learning to live at home withOUT regressing to childhood habits and being justifiably angry with Joel. 

[Quilt Fairy]

On ‎12‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 9:43 AM, aradia22 said:

I'm enjoying the use of musical theater music as well as all the standards, jazz, etc.

OMG, yes!  This is the era when I was familiar with all the songs of every Broadway show.  It's Cyril Richard!  It's Anthony Newly!  Etc., etc.  I'm in heaven.

[Clanstarling]

On 12/2/2017 at 7:43 AM, aradia22 said:

Now Susie also suddenly has a black friend?

Since we've known absolutely nothing about Susie up to this point, every new aspect of her is "sudden", so I don't think this is necessarily pejorative. I agree about the Red Foxx, but if they're going to go there, it would be good for her to see his less censored stand-up. The man was not a family friendly comedian.

On 12/2/2017 at 7:43 AM, aradia22 said:

Ugh... Kennedy reference. Stop writing from the future. 

Eh, the high profile and charismatic senator contemplating a run for the Presidency seems relevant to the time to me.  That is when Kennedy started preparing for the 1960 election.

On 12/2/2017 at 7:43 AM, aradia22 said:

That... didn't seem like a great Red Skelton impression.

It was a horrible impression, in my opinion. We used to watch him when I was a child, I loved him. He had a very specific way of talking - this fella was nothing like him. He should have watched some old performances.

I rather liked the flashback scenes - I've packed up and moved two houses (one because of divorce, one for a big move) and those kinds of memories are part of the process - painful and nostalgic both.

Joel moving in with PP (I can never remember her names) was a surprise, given the way he was ducking her call last episode. 

[aradia22]

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Eh, the high profile and charismatic senator contemplating a run for the Presidency seems relevant to the time to me.  That is when Kennedy started preparing for the 1960 election.

I think it was the way it was written, not that they brought it up at all. There's a way of writing about the past that doesn't take advantage of that position so much. 

[Guest]

I wish this show was funny.  I understand Midge's last two sets were supposed to be bombs but to me no one has really been funny since the pilot, including Lenny Bruce and Red Skelton.  I don't know if they're using actual period jokes for them, which I guess they'd have more of an excuse since a lot of what was funny then just isn't now.  But I think they could pick from their material that is still funny.  And they could make the show in its entirety funnier.  Even the jokes that are supposed to be funny leave me looking blank-faced like the recent Gaslight audiences.  

I'm basically watching for the costumes, sets and actors.  As usual, the writing has me underwhelmed.  

I'm also not entirely comfortable with the reliance on Jewish stereotypes, especially for the parents.  I wish they'd dial back that aspect now that they've sufficiently set the tone.  

[whiporee]

I'm confused. I think the love of the pilot and the crunch of watching an episode every day is working against me with this, because not a lot of what I'm seeing is making sense. 

Why did Midge move out of the apartment? The fathers reached an agreement -- it's not on the market -- so why isn't Midge still living there? There are still kids to consider.

How did Joel afford (or find) another apartment? Last episode his father said he was broke, living hand to mouth on handouts. So how did he afford another swank place? And if the money came from his parents, did they really allow him to move in with Penny? 

Did Midge really think she'd be able to come home at 2 in the morning while living with her parents? And with a baby? As much as I like her -- and want to like her even more -- there's a real callousness in regards to her kids and other people. Does she think it okay to just leave the baby with her mother whenever she chooses? In another episode thread, I said I thought they were rushing things -- it still feels that way but even more. Midge should be making choices here -- can she really do standup in her current life? What can she afford?

The cards gag went on too long. 

All that said, i don't dislike the writing, and there's an aura of Doll's House in all of this, and those little things are neat to see. But they really needed to put some more thought into a lot of this -- I know that's not ASP's style, but it would have helped a lot.  

Edited December 21, 2017 by whiporee
I included stuff from the next episode. Sorry.

[Clanstarling]

11 minutes ago, whiporee said:

Why did Midge move out of the apartment? The fathers reached an agreement -- it's not on the market -- so why isn't Midge still living there? There are still kids to consider.

How did Joel afford (or find) another apartment? Last episode his father said he was broke, living hand to mouth on handouts. So how did he afford another swank place? And if the money came from his parents, did they really allow him to move in with Penny? 

Did Midge really think she'd be able to come home at 2 in the morning while living with her parents? And with a baby? As much as I like her -- and want to like her even more -- there's a real callousness in regards to her kids and other people. Does she think it okay to just leave the baby with her mother whenever she chooses? 

They had the agreement with the explicit purpose of getting the two back together. Once Midge's father saw her reject Joel, I imagine he reneged on the the agreement and Joel's father sold the place. 

Joel's new apartment is certainly a head scratcher. Maybe Penny comes from a well off family? Doesn't make any sense to me either.

Yeah, I think she's been pretty spoiled in her life and her parents have always given her pretty much what she wanted and she's pretty focused on herself. Her mother hasn't set boundaries about the kids before, so I don't think that it is even a thought in Midge's mind that it might be an inconvenience. 

As for staying out late, she is an adult and if it weren't for the kids, I'd say the parents were kind of overstepping. (based on my own experiences as a daughter and a mother, so mileage may vary). 

I'm not sure I'd say I like her as much as I find her entertaining. Which I probably wouldn't if I knew her in real life.

[OtterMommy]

36 minutes ago, whiporee said:

Did Midge really think she'd be able to come home at 2 in the morning while living with her parents? And with a baby? As much as I like her -- and want to like her even more -- there's a real callousness in regards to her kids and other people. Does she think it okay to just leave the baby with her mother whenever she chooses? 

There was precedent for this.  It seemed like they were leaving the kids with her parents every weekend so that Joel could do his stand up thing.  And, I think some families just have that sort of thing.  I had a friend who, from the time her daughter was 3 months old, would have her stay at her parents house for the weekend, every weekend, so that she could spend that time just with her husband (I met them when they moved out here--3000 miles away from her parents--and let's just say that it was quite the adjustment for her.  They moved back to the east coast less than a year later so they could be closer to her parents).

Now, I'm with you about this not working when Midge is living with her parents.  And it doesn't work on a number of levels.  I think the parents were happy to watch the kids so that Midge and Joel could be together, but that was clearly not happening once Midge moved back in with them.  Also, just coming in at all hours of the night is, well, really rude when you are staying with someone else.  But, her parents DID call her on it, which is important.  If they had just gone along with this behavior, I would have lost a lot of confidence in the writing.

[biakbiak]

15 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

Joel's new apartment is certainly a head scratcher. Maybe Penny comes from a well off family? Doesn't make any sense to me either.

I was wondering if Joel paid for it and that's one of the reasons they are broke because otherwise it doesn’t really make sense because regardless of how he got tge job he is still a VP at a large firm and should be pulling down a good salary and he didn't pay for their apartment, the kids aren't in school, she uses her parents for childcare, their maid to occasionally help her, and most of their nights are spent at The Gaslight so what the hell is he spending all his salary on?

[OtterMommy]

8 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

I was wondering if Joel paid for it and that's one of the reasons they are broke because otherwise it doesn’t really make sense because regardless of how he got tge job he is still a VP at a large firm and should be pulling down a good salary and he didn't pay for their apartment, the kids aren't in school, she uses her parents for childcare, their maid to occasionally help her, and most of their nights are spent at The Gaslight so what the hell is he spending all his salary on?

I also wondered if Joel had gotten that apartment....a while ago.  For Penny.  And THAT is why they were broke...

[orza]

Joel told Midge that they had been living above their means for pretty much their whole marriage. Midge spent money faster than Joel could earn it. They had the same lifestyle as Midge's parents but without the corresponding income. Joel may have been a VP at his uncle's company but he was probably not getting a real VP salary that a senior executive with 20 years experience would get. That's not unusual with such nepotism arrangements.

Midge didn't skimp on clothes or her household expenses. Even though Joel's father bought the apartment they still had monthly housing expenses such as utilities and co-op fees plus Joel has a mountain of consumer debt to pay off as a result of their overspending.

I know plenty of people who are affluent on paper but have such high monthly expenses due to excessive debt and other financial commitments like mortgages, lease agreements, school tuition they can't get out of without repercussions that they are pretty much broke all the time.

[biakbiak]

I just don't believe the show illustrated that they were overspending and she was shown using her parents as resources, the maid and childcare, not trying to kee up with them.

I also don't buy the fact that the Midge who micromanaged every part of their lives, including Joel's comedy career would have no idea about their finances. Yes, it showed that she implicitly trusted him not realizing that he used Bob Newhart's material but her not at least knowing about their finances didn't fit either character to me. 

Edited December 21, 2017 by biakbiak

[aradia22]

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Why did Midge move out of the apartment? The fathers reached an agreement -- it's not on the market -- so why isn't Midge still living there? There are still kids to consider.

That was poorly explained. I think their agreement was to both pay the rent but I don't understand why they wouldn't let Midge and her kids move back into the apartment. It was a secret deal so no one else knows that Abe is now paying half the rent besides the two of them. But it doesn't explain why it had to be a secret or how this helps them get Midge and Joel back together or whatever the plan was. 

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How did Joel afford (or find) another apartment? Last episode his father said he was broke, living hand to mouth on handouts. So how did he afford another swank place? And if the money came from his parents, did they really allow him to move in with Penny? 

Yeah, I didn't get this either. I had no idea why his dad would give him so much money to buy and furnish another apartment, especially one that clearly cost a lot of money like that. What other people have suggested about him having two apartments the whole time makes sense. 

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Now, I'm with you about this not working when Midge is living with her parents.  And it doesn't work on a number of levels.  I think the parents were happy to watch the kids so that Midge and Joel could be together, but that was clearly not happening once Midge moved back in with them.  Also, just coming in at all hours of the night is, well, really rude when you are staying with someone else.  But, her parents DID call her on it, which is important.  If they had just gone along with this behavior, I would have lost a lot of confidence in the writing.

Yeah, I think she was irrational to think they'd be totally cool with it. She's going out by herself. She doesn't tell them where she's going. She comes back super late. And she's not taking care of her kids. It makes sense for them to call her on that. 

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I also don't buy the fact that the Midge who micromanaged every part of their lives, including Joel's comedy career would have no idea about their finances. Yes, it showed that she implicitly trusted him not realizing that he used Bob Newhart's material but her not at least knowing about their finances didn't fit either character to me. 

I agree. I believe she might have spent more than usual thinking that they were comfortably well off. That is, she wouldn't be scrimping and saving. But especially at that time a housewife's role would be managing the household expenses. I don't think they had the kind of maid her parents do to manage all of that. 

[biakbiak]

1 minute ago, aradia22 said:

That was poorly explained. I think their agreement was to both pay the rent but I don't understand why they wouldn't let Midge and her kids move back into the apartment.

Joel's dad owns the apartment, the agreement was that Abe would buyout half of Moishe's share not pay rent. 

[LisaM]

I worried the whole time Midge took her eye off of Ethan in the park so she could attend the rally. 

Given the grandchildren, I can't believe that Moishe and Abe wouldn't have worked out an arrangement even after Midge said No to Joel coming back. 

[aradia22]

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Joel's dad owns the apartment, the agreement was that Abe would buyout half of Moishe's share not pay rent. 

Regardless, what does that have to do with her and the kids moving back in?

[biakbiak]

10 minutes ago, aradia22 said:

Regardless, what does that have to do with her and the kids moving back in?

I can't imagine Abe would want to be tied financially to Moishe with such a big commitment if that life and Joel are not what she wants and he didn't want her to feel the pressure of getting back with Joel which such an investment might imply.

[shapeshifter]

On December 18, 2017 at 8:10 PM, Winston9-DT3 said:

I wish this show was funny.  I understand Midge's last two sets were supposed to be bombs but to me no one has really been funny since the pilot, including Lenny Bruce and Red Skelton.  I don't know if they're using actual period jokes for them, which I guess they'd have more of an excuse since a lot of what was funny then just isn't now.  But I think they could pick from their material that is still funny.  And they could make the show in its entirety funnier.  Even the jokes that are supposed to be funny leave me looking blank-faced like the recent Gaslight audiences.  

I've only laughed maybe 3 times so far, and I think 2 of those times were at Tony Shaloub's lines.
But then I rarely laugh out loud at comedy.
But maybe it isn't just me? Divorce is not amusing. Dialogue can be entertaining for its clever wittiness without making us laugh.
Given that old Vaudeville derived humor is not going to amuse most modern audiences (us), just having actors perform that material with a laugh track is kind of boring; the Lenny Bruce and not-Red Skeleton bits might have been better if they were interspersed more between the characters' dialogue or facial reactions.

[SongbirdHollow]

On December 2, 2017 at 10:43 AM, aradia22 said:

 

It really does feel like it would be a harsh blow for Joel to recreate their life but just with Penny. Sure he's a bum and she's better off without him but saying he's dissatisfied with how his life turned out and then seeming to adopt most of that same life again... but without her and the kids? 

This happened in real life to someone I know and I can't wrap my head around it. He left her when she was pregnant with his kid and took up with someone who looks just like her and already has kids. It doesn't make any sense.

I found this episode pretty depressing for a comedy.

[aradia22]

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I can't imagine Abe would want to be tied financially to Moishe with such a big commitment if that life and Joel are not what she wants and he didn't want her to feel the pressure of getting back with Joel which such an investment might imply.

I skimmed through the episode again to re-establish the timeline. I failed to realize that it apparently all happened in one day. Moishe/Abe made their deal in the morning/afternoon and when Midge came home at night, Abe found out that she'd rejected Joel. So maybe they would have moved back in but that plan changed when she rejected Joel that night?

My confusion was thinking the plan the whole time was for Abe to pay half of whatever and then continue to hold on to the empty apartment for some reason and not let them move back in. Which seemed completely illogical.

[shapeshifter]

Is the significance of the titular line that the surviving adult Dionne Quintuplets would be disappointed in Abe giving his daughter a curfew because of the related mistreatment that the Quints endured and later campaigned against?

[Clanstarling]

15 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Is the significance of the titular line that the surviving adult Dionne Quintuplets would be disappointed in Abe giving his daughter a curfew because of the related mistreatment that the Quints endured and later campaigned against?

I think the mother said something about the Dionne Quintuplets being disappointed in Midge, but since I know very little about them (other than they were quintuplets), it didn't really register.

[Guest]

On 12/21/2017 at 10:57 AM, whiporee said:

As much as I like her -- and want to like her even more -- there's a real callousness in regards to her kids and other people. Does she think it okay to just leave the baby with her mother whenever she chooses?

I had this problem with Midge, too, but it happens with me and TV moms a lot.  Mindy springs to mind.  I have trouble liking a mother who is just constantly pawning her kids off on others, with no seeming interest in spending time with them or parenting them herself.  But that's TV.  I guess at least Midge was a full-time mother at the outset, not that we were really shown it.  Even in her comedy she seems pretty disdainful of her own kids.  

But I thought the parents were out of line treating her like a 16 year old coming in late.  Actually, the parents' anger and blaming over the divorce was also a big turn-off.  They may watch the kids when the babysitter isn't there but otherwise they're more part of the problem.  But it's also kind of funny because I do feel like parents decades ago had so much less thought to being emotionally supportive and so much more emphasis on turning out their kids to fit in a certain mold, at any emotional cost.  

[MYOS]

Can somebody explain why the Dionne quintuplets would be "judging" anyone? (There's another reference in episode 7 or 8 to Myriam having a picture or article about them on her wall).

[snarktini]

Not only was Joel's apartment baffling -- not only expensive but 100% decorated, not something he just threw together last week -- but his only asking to see the boy (Ethan?) also caught me off guard. I can handwave that divorced Dads might not have been expected or equipped to take a baby overnight back then. But he didn't say "I want to see the kids". He said he wanted to see the son. If the girl was the older child, would that have changed who he wanted to see?

[bijoux]

I didn't take it as sexist, just as him not knowing how to handle a baby on his own. 

[Atlanta]

19 hours ago, bijoux said:

I didn't take it as sexist, just as him not knowing how to handle a baby on his own. 

People need to realise we are watching a period piece. A man of that era may not have known how to change diapers. My child is a tween now, but my fab hubby changed diapers as did myself. In that era, prob not.

[jocelyn314]

On 12/17/2017 at 7:55 AM, Clanstarling said:

 

Joel moving in with PP (I can never remember her names) was a surprise, given the way he was ducking her call last episode. 

He ducked her call then, i believe, went back to ask wifey to come home. That didn't work. Then he returns to Penny.

[jocelyn314]

On 12/25/2017 at 3:38 PM, LisaM said:

I worried the whole time Midge took her eye off of Ethan in the park so she could attend the rally. 

Given the grandchildren, I can't believe that Moishe and Abe wouldn't have worked out an arrangement even after Midge said No to Joel coming back. 

I think there are two things to remember. I worried about Ethan too. Because it's 2018 and we're paranoid about our children now. But it's 1958. Friends and strangers 'looked out' for your wee one quite often. That lady did say she'd watch him for Midge just before she joined the rally. It was a completely different time in the 50s where people loved their kids; they just weren't paranoid. The second thing is that this show is not a gritty realism type show where you expect true life. This is a beautiful musical type genre where reality is displaced for awhile while we enjoy the swelling music and aesthetic placement of people and things. Don't get confused and expect it to be everything all at once.

[aradia22]

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People need to realise we are watching a period piece. A man of that era may not have known how to change diapers. My child is a tween now, but my fab hubby changed diapers as did myself. In that era, prob not.

Two points. One, I think because of the way this show is written sometimes it's a period piece and sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's very modern and sometimes it's firmly in the time period. And you can rationalize it however you want but I think that's a failure of writing. As ASP has said, she was a bit casual about the accuracy of some of the details. I would call it sloppy. 

Two, even if her behavior is not out of the usual for the time period, I think it does still gel with a reading of Midge as a somewhat selfish, self-involved, neglectful character. She says in her act (admittedly quite randomly) if she's meant to be a mother or if she even wanted children. Not unusually for a protagonist (though there are of course exceptions) she's very single-minded in pursuing her goals and self-interest. Look at the way she kind of blows things up in her stand up act (no spoilers because this is episode 4) but she hurts others and she hurts herself. As much as she likes to control things and make them perfect she's also kind of spontaneous and haphazard. I don't think it's wrong to read her relationship to her children as a part of all of that. 

[Nidratime]

I think the person with the funniest lines in this show is Suzy. *She* should have a stand-up act. That being said, I think Midge can be quite observant and witty and sarcastically funny, which was all in evidence when she was in Joel's new apartment confronting him and Penny. All of that part was funny to me.

As for Joe's new digs, I have no trouble at all believing that his father and mother bought or rented him another one. It looks like this guy -- like Midge -- has been pampered and catered to all his life. His job -- which he hates -- was something that was handed it to him. His first home was handed to him. Why is it hard to believe that his parents bought him another? Once the bluster is over, they cave. Just like Midge's dad did on the TV set, on a much smaller scale. I just want to know if they know Penny is living there too.

As for Midge's parents confronting her for coming in at 2:00 a.m., I'm mostly on Midge's side on this since she is a 26 year old adult. However, it was her fault for not warning her parents: "Hey, I'll be out tonight with a friend. I may be in late. I apologize in advance." But, of course, they'd want to know where she's going and why, etc. So, I can see why she wouldn't tell them, because they definitely wouldn't approve, even though she's trying to do something with herself that she knows (and they will adamantly point out) is a huge gamble. So, she has to be "slightly" dishonest or withhold from them to get on her feet, since all they seem to want is for her to get back with Joel ... or maybe any "decent" man who will allegedly take care of her 1950's style.

All I kept thinking as I watched that part is that she needs to get a job ... which is what she ultimately concluded. Whether she can get one that will allow her some independence from her parents and afford her the opportunity to keep "researching" and trying to break into stand-up is another thing.

And, yes, I agree. That Red Skelton impersonation was awful. I kept asking myself, who's that guy? The emcee? When is Red coming on? (Red was not that fat.)

Edited January 15, 2018 by Nidratime

[CherithCutestory]

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I also don't buy the fact that the Midge who micromanaged every part of their lives, including Joel's comedy career would have no idea about their finances. Yes, it showed that she implicitly trusted him not realizing that he used Bob Newhart's material but her not at least knowing about their finances didn't fit either character to me. 

I think Midge probably balanced the check books and paid the bills but didn't realize where the money was coming from. She thought Joel paid for the apartment not his father. She didn't know it was his father who put extra money in their account to make sure checks didn't bounce. She trusted him. Just like she managed the details of his comedy "career" but didn't know where the actual act came from.

The way I see it a perfect housewife is the Director of Operations to her husband's CEO.

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There was precedent for this.  It seemed like they were leaving the kids with her parents every weekend so that Joel could do his stand up thing.  And, I think some families just have that sort of thing.  I had a friend who, from the time her daughter was 3 months old, would have her stay at her parents house for the weekend, every weekend, so that she could spend that time just with her husband (I met them when they moved out here--3000 miles away from her parents--and let's just say that it was quite the adjustment for her.  They moved back to the east coast less than a year later so they could be closer to her parents).

My next door neighbors when I was a kid had a similar arrangement. They were a huge Italian family living in two two family houses near each other and the kids were basically communal. Usually with the grandmother or one of the aunts.

And, like you say, I think Midge thought it was OK because it had always been OK. She left her kids with the parents all night both times we saw her off with Joel.

I am totally fine with Midge's level of involvement with her kids. I don't need to see the kids any more than we do. She's not a natural mother but we see her spend time with them. When she went to the record store her first thought was that Ethan would love these. Then she actually went way out of her way to bring him to that same store. She does put some effort in. But the fact is stand-up comics aren't infamous for being amazing parents.

What I want to know is when does she sleep?

[millennium]

I like the show okay, but the music choices can be fucking annoying.

I'm not 2 minutes into this episode and I already want to throw the TV against the wall just to end the seemingly endless "Happy Days Are Here Again" dirge.  

[BusyOctober]

I just assumed Joel’s new apartment was actually Penny’s.  It looked very nice and completely furnished. However, even if it wasn’t as big as Joel & Midge’s place, it still looked pricey to me.  So maybe Penny has rich parents that got her setup in her own place?  Or maybe her rent wasn’t too high and she could afford it?  But I never thought Joel found and furnished a whole new place, and got Penny moved in so soon after leaving Midge. 

[biakbiak]

1 hour ago, BusyOctober said:

I just assumed Joel’s new apartment was actually Penny’s.  It looked very nice and completely furnished. However, even if it wasn’t as big as Joel & Midge’s place, it still looked pricey to me.  So maybe Penny has rich parents that got her setup in her own place?  Or maybe her rent wasn’t too high and she could afford it?  But I never thought Joel found and furnished a whole new place, and got Penny moved in so soon after leaving Midge. 

I assumed he had set her up there months ago since they had been having an affair for awhile. 

[shapeshifter]

8 hours ago, biakbiak said:

10 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

I just assumed Joel’s new apartment was actually Penny’s.  It looked very nice and completely furnished. However, even if it wasn’t as big as Joel & Midge’s place, it still looked pricey to me.  So maybe Penny has rich parents that got her setup in her own place?  Or maybe her rent wasn’t too high and she could afford it?  But I never thought Joel found and furnished a whole new place, and got Penny moved in so soon after leaving Midge. 

I assumed he had set her up there months ago since they had been having an affair for awhile. 

I assumed the same as @biakbiak (that Joel provided the apartment) but now I'm wondering why didn't I consider what @BusyOctober said (that it was Penny Pan's own place). Was there maybe a line about Joel providing a love nest?

[biakbiak]

3 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I assumed the same as @biakbiak (that Joel provided the apartment) but now I'm wondering why didn't I consider what @BusyOctober said (that it was Penny Pan's own place). Was there maybe a line about Joel providing a love nest?

I can't find the ep but that lead me to think it so don't want to spoil it. Just from what we know about her job which was sharpening pencils so I was basing it on a lot of things based on lack of knowledge about Penny.

[BusyOctober]

2 hours ago, biakbiak said:

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I assumed the same as @biakbiak (that Joel provided the apartment) but now I'm wondering why didn't I consider what @BusyOctober said (that it was Penny Pan's own place). Was there maybe a line about Joel providing a love nest?

I can't find the ep but that lead me to think it so don't want to spoil it. Just from what we know about her job which was sharpening pencils so I was basing it on a lot of things based on lack of knowledge about Penny.

I forgot to add in my original post...Joel didn't have any money.  His father told everyone the couple was broke.  So, did Joel setup the love nest earlier and run the well dry trying to keep 2 houses going?  Or if he had no money of his own, then Penny must have had that apartment already.  

I know it's a moot point and silly thing to get stuck on, but the time lines of this show throw me.  Everything happened so fast.  Was ASP afraid she'd only get one season of this thing, so she rushed everything?

[Clanstarling]

43 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

 He is VP in a huge corner office and his dad paid for the apartment. All his income cant go for brisket to get a better timeslot. Until she starts working Midge and Joel don't even pay for childcare! His having no money makes no sense.

Depends on how he was spending it. Making bad investments, maybe? Midge's fabulous wardrobe and expensive furniture? His own suits? Buying the best of the best without thought to budgets can bleed you dry, even if you're pretty well off. 

[biakbiak]

23 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

Depends on how he was spending it. Making bad investments, maybe? Midge's fabulous wardrobe and expensive furniture? His own suits? Buying the best of the best without thought to budgets can bleed you dry, even if you're pretty well off. 

Of course but there was no context or explanation on the show so it still doesn't make sense. They apparently didn't own much of the expensive furniture because it didnt move with either of them and Midge often repeats items and her father in law is in the garment business so I still cant fathom where hiss salary went.

Edited February 2, 2018 by biakbiak

[TV Diva Queen]

I think it was Penny's apartment and Joel brought along some of his acquired nic-naks.  Midge and her friend were referring to "shorthand girls"  taking the short cut in life.  To me this seems like a UES  term, mabe like Penny's dad knew Penny wasn't destined for much and he is probably successful and set up his daughter.  

[biakbiak]

2 hours ago, TV Diva Queen said:

I think it was Penny's apartment and Joel brought along some of his acquired nic-naks.  Midge and her friend were referring to "shorthand girls"  taking the short cut in life.  To me this seems like a UES  term, mabe like Penny's dad knew Penny wasn't destined for much and he is probably successful and set up his daughter.  

If Joel had brought some nic-naks which Midge would have been responsible for collecting she would have lost her shit even more and no one would have blamed her. To me her reaction wasnt that it was her stuff it was that it was a completely pulled together life  and that he was at home in, her reaction to seeeing it also  made me think that Midge at least thought he had paid and furnished that apartment.

Edited February 2, 2018 by biakbiak

[Eeksquire]

Quote

Midge's fabulous wardrobe and expensive furniture?

I, personally, would LOVE a feature on Midge and Joel's apartment so I can make a shopping list! Of course, I might also have to declare bankruptcy shortly thereafter because I can certainly not afford their lifestyle!

[bijoux]

On 02. 02. 2018. at 4:28 PM, biakbiak said:

Of course but there was no context or explanation on the show so it still doesn't make sense. They apparently didn't own much of the expensive furniture because it didnt move with either of them and Midge often repeats items and her father in law is in the garment business so I still cant fathom where hiss salary went.

I'm pretty sure that the furniture is in a storage along with the TV.

[bonniejmac]

On 1/11/2018 at 5:42 PM, MYOS said:

Can somebody explain why the Dionne quintuplets would be "judging" anyone?

The Dionne family was a pretty devout Catholic one and one of the quints even became a nun (or was on the way to becoming one when she died, unexpectedly, very young). So maybe that's where the judgement part came from?The quints would have been about the same age as Miriam - I forget exactly when they were born but it was in the early 30s and although they were Canadian, they were hugely popular in the US as well - they appeared in all kinds of ads and endorsements - perhaps they were always held up to her as a role model of sorts? 

(I have always been fascinated by the Dionnes' story. A cousin of mine lives in North Bay, ON, the city nearest where they were born, and back in about '93 we visited the house they were born in, which had become a museum. Just an incredible story, but so very sad too.)

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I liked that Miriam was so insistent on becoming friends with Susie and learning more about her. I think she genuinely enjoyed their night out and really wanted to get to know her better (as opposed to just being nosy about the details of her life).

On 12/21/2017 at 9:57 AM, whiporee said:

Why did Midge move out of the apartment? The fathers reached an agreement -- it's not on the market -- so why isn't Midge still living there? There are still kids to consider.

They did reach an agreement but it was for the Abe to buy half of the apartment from Moishe and then the two of them would hold on to the apartment (instead of Moishe selling it) until Joel and Midge reconciled and moved back into the apartment together.

Abe: I was wondering, is there any way I can get you to change your mind about taking back the apartment? 
Moishe: Nope. No way. I paid for it. I overpaid for it. It was mine to take back. My son knew this. 
Abe: I'm sure he did. 
Moishe: So what's the point here, Abe? Why are you even bringing this up? 
Abe: I want to get the kids back together. 
Moishe: Join the club.
Abe: And the apartment is a big piece of that puzzle.
Moishe: I've already put it on the market.
Abe: You can take it off the market.
Moishe: People are gonna love the layout, and it's so close to the park.
Abe: I'll pay for half the apartment.
Moishe: What do you mean you'll pay for half?
Abe: So we're each in 50-50. Co-owners. Then,we keep it available if and when Joel and Miriam get back together.
Moishe: Hmm. 50-50, huh?
Abe: Yes.
Moishe: Like we did the temple seats.
Abe: Yes. Just like we did the temple seats.
Moishe: And you can swing that? Place ain't cheap. 
Abe: I can swing it.

On 2/4/2018 at 5:54 AM, bijoux said:

I'm pretty sure that the furniture is in a storage along with the TV.

Yes, Rose told Midge that she had arranged with Mr. Zuckerman (the super of their building) to have all of the furniture from Midge and Joel's stored in the basement for the next two months.