S06.E06: Promises Kept

[Hiveminder]

10 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Sadly, I agree. But I still want to know what they come up with! Haha.

Either he'll find out about Diggle and feel compelled to come back OR he'll get William's permission or something.

I hope William doesn’t have to give him some inspirational speech. The actor is serviceable considering he’s a kid, but he can’t handle that. 

[Cthulhudrew]

Looks like Deathstroke has been raiding Oliver's bad wig closet.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Good Lord, they are pretty! Also, the smiling. Sigh.

I love that while Felicity looks over at William Oliver just keeps staring at her for a little bit longer.

They need to put a bell on that kid :P

Also, the height difference is so apparent in this scene.

Edited November 17, 2017 by SmallScreenDiva
Add comment on height difference

[Belinea]

54 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

Slade had Rose Wilson as his daughter in the comics. I guess she happens when they run out of Mysons 2.0 storylines.

Well, Diggle's daughter got changed to a son for no reason. That is how much they care about daughters. They'll probably give Slade more sons before they'd make his daughter appear. (sorry, the bitterness came through)

They managed to make Slade boring to me, how is that possible?

Also SA has very little chemistry with the kid who plays William. Maybe it is supposed to be this awkward. 

[Richness]

I wasn't bored by this episode as most seem to be. While I had hoped we'd be free of flashbacks this year, most of these were welcomes, including the flashback's flashbacks. I avoid the horrid opening voice over introduction and previouslies, so it was good to get it in the show itself. Plus, my memory is horrible and I could use the refresher.

 

Speaking of which, what's Black Canary's big secret? I didn't notice what the item was that she was holding. And frankly, I still don't remember what the secret is after being told it was a matchbox.

 

2 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Did Oliver just have a dirty mind or does the term happy ending mean sex stuff these days?

Actually, it does. A happy ending is the actual climax in sex. It's usually applied to men climaxing, but it could apply to women as well. As to why that type of happy ending is alluded to, even in a passing jest, I have no clue.

[JamieLynn832002]

Dinah said last week that Vincent used to leave roses in matchbooks (I think there was more to it than that but I don't remember) and then when she went to her car after saying there was nothing of him left in Vigilante, there was one sitting on the hood.

[Soulfire]

 

 

 

Edited November 17, 2017 by Soulfire

[Hiveminder]

10 minutes ago, Richness said:

 

Actually, it does. A happy ending is the actual climax in sex. It's usually applied to men climaxing, but it could apply to women as well. As to why that type of happy ending is alluded to, even in a passing jest, I have no clue.

As far as I’m aware, it started out as a coded way to ask for/advertise a hand job (or other kind of job, probably) at the end of a massage at ‘massage parlors’ that mainly operate as fronts for prostitution. The happy ending to your massage is getting off. How it becam so widely used in popular culture I’m not sure. 

Edited November 17, 2017 by Hiveminder

[Mellowyellow]

Thanks @Richness

Am annoyed I can't use happy ending in the context of a fairytale/story happy ending!

***

I love how unfazed William is by Olicity canoodling! 

[thegirlsleuth]

I watched tonight, and I wasn't sure if the fact that I missed it last week meant I lost some detail, but this was really boring. I wondered if it was because I went and saw Thor this afternoon which had more complicated family relationships in a much more entertaining setup, but this episode ended up making Slade dull, which is hard to do. 

I was talking about the Kreisberg situation with a friend a few days ago, and we ended up discussing the comments last year from Marguerite Sauvage, the writer of the comic Bombshells.  Generally, we were talking about how when female writers are shut down you get really lopsided stories, and personally, I really care about the way female heroes are written. The episode tonight with the fathers and sons and more sons and possible sons who might show up and be evil made me think of her quote:

"One thing I done learned writing BOMBSHELLS-- You can write your blustering virile fantasy series and talk endlessly of “I shall be a legend for fathers to tell their sons!!” "Kings and princes shall sing forever of my name! We shall conquer villagers, enslave the women!! The All-Father’s warriors shall blah blah"... but if you drop so much as one line that reads “I will be a story for mothers to tell their little girls”--gentlemen with and without children will stand in line to inform you that you, miss, oh ho, YOU are SEXIST. And the bros up in my mentions with "this doesn't happen" and "examples please" yeah, I fucking see you. Bros in my own industry @'ing me yeah, I fucking see you. 

Reading The Dark Tower and everything, endlessly, about the face of your father, the reign of your father, his kingdom and his gun. Lord of the Rings and the endless lines of kings and princes that convey power and destiny and the right to the throne, and 3 women speak. A Song of Ice and Fire and every culture in it crushing the women underfoot, filled with abuse, constriction, and rape, and-- then OUTRAGE that Dany would say "All men must die, but we are not men"."

There a couple of more sentences in which she takes on Mary Sues, but I do like how she confronts how dominant the father-son dynamic is in literature/comics.  

[Mellowyellow]

2 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Maybe they're not the kind of nuts Felicity is allergic to?  There's tree nuts, and there peanuts and some people are allergic to only one kind (frantically trying to fanwank)

 

I liked the nut bit  because it bugged me not knowing whether Felicity could eat other nuts besides the one/s she's allergic to.

It all makes sense no need to fanwank! My son's BFF has a peanut, pecan and walnut allergy but can eat most other nuts. I always feel weird offering her friands and macadamia pie but she loves it and eats it just fine. 

[insomniadreams88]

Anyone else just confused by the layout of Oliver’s apartment? The apartment has roof access? Is there a back door to another hallway that leads to the access to the roof? Why didn’t they just go out the front door so I’m not left more confused than I already was about this apartment? 

[Featherhat]

19 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Thanks @Richness

Am annoyed I can't use happy ending in the context of a fairytale/story happy ending!

***

I love how unfazed William is by Olicity canoodling! 

I guess Oliver's mind automatically goes to the dirtiest meaning of the phrase when Felicity is talking? I'm sure if it was Dig asking he wouldn't have made that face and taken it more at face value.

It seems William may have walked in on a lot of canoodling between 6.03-4. Considering he's one day going to have to learn that his Dad got his Mom pregnant during a ONS when he was cheating on his then longterm girlfriend, not to mention the Gambit story and everything else I guess its a good thing he's unfazed by his Dad having a visible sex life. 

I have no idea about the layout of the apartment. In fact I am going to assume they really are living in converted City Hall empty offices.

[Mellowyellow]

I love love love how she's yammering on and Oliver is like "Come here you little cutie."

Soooooo smitten!

Established Olicity has delivered everything it promised to ?

[SmallScreenDiva]

I think this is the first Oliver/MySon moment that I actually liked. The kid's delivery is still a bit off. But MySon telling Oliver he wasn't gone that long to warrant such a tight and long hug is probably the most authentic piece of dialogue ever written for him. And Oliver's response is so dad-like. 

[immortalfrieza]

5 hours ago, Hiveminder said:

I’m not sure what they’re trying to do with Oliver’s motivation.  Oliver fully intended to stop being the Hood when he thought they were about to stop the undertaking in season one. He tried to give it up by secluding himself on the very island where he was tortured, nearly died, and watched people he cared about die between seasons one and two. He didn’t want to put the Hood back on in the beginning of season two until Thea was kidnapped. He spent season three hating his life and then gave up being the Arrow at the end of the season. He seemed content and happy in Ivy Town and had to practically be dragged back to Star City in season four. He tried to give up being GA in season five because Chase made him believe it was all based on that killer nonsense. Now he’s given it up for his son’s sake (a really, really good reason), and he seems really happy. 

This man does not want to do this.

I strongly disagree. Oliver may act like he wants to give up being the Hood or The Arrow or whatever it is he's calling himself that season and even seriously consider it, but in the end he just loves the rush he gets from doing it, loves saving people, and is too consumed by the guilt he gets from the fact that if he's not The Green Arrow people die to really give it up. Sure, he might be able to hold it off for a while like he did between season 3 and 4 but in the end he's ALWAYS will put the hood back on because at his core that's who he is, a hero. William is just the latest in a line of excuses he tells himself to keep him out of it for a while and eventually he will ditch that like the lip service it really is or it'll be rendered irrelevant. Slade needing his help this episode and last was little more than an excuse to get back into what he does best whatever he tells himself. All superheroes are like this, unable to give up being a superhero for any real length of time because the reality is they just don't really want to, even if themselves and others try to convince them otherwise.

As for the episode, I liked it and wasn't bored at all. Slade was a badass as usual and he was as Oliver said just a little bit too convincing, if I somehow didn't know that Oliver was the main character and thus there was no way in hell they'd ever kill him off I'd have bought Slade's act hook line and sinker. The Mirakuru Slade was as freaky as we've ever seen him by the end. Another kid? I'm interested in where the man's story will go from here.

Good thing they didn't drag out the whole "Diggle is on drugs" plotline for most of the season and pointed out how Curtis could have probably solved the problem to begin with had Diggle simply told him. The storyline could have been done better but whatever, it was really about Diggle coming to grow into the role of Green Arrow more than anything, particularly the part about letting go of his pride and truly trusting the team.

Edited November 17, 2017 by immortalfrieza

[BkWurm1]

8 hours ago, Angel12d said:

I loved Oliver coming home to his little family. Dude had such heart eyes to see them together. That whole scene felt very natural. And of course Olicity! Love them.

I think the cuteness of the whole thing is lessening the kid's bad acting? IDK. Haha.

After watching the scene 4 or 5 times it starts to sound natural. I swear, lol.  

8 hours ago, DrSpaceman10 said:

I think the kid's best when he's in scenes with EBR, that's when he's the most natural. SA and the kid's scenes aren't quite clicking for me yet, which is odd because SA's a parent in real life and I thought it would come off more naturally for him. 

I can't believe I'm saying this, but the Felicity/William/Oliver scenes are one of my highlights of the season so far ?. If only they'd written it like this from the beginning :/

I think SA treats the kid at times too much like his very young daughter.  He gets a tone in his voice I associate with my mother whenever she'd talk to toddlers. His "Hey Buddy." frequently comes off like that, like not wanting to startle an infant or kid that still responds more to tone than anything.  

But I can get over it.  I'll just chalk it up to Oliver being a bit odd since it's still new.  So it's weird for others but natural for him, lol.  

8 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Did I hear right that they had rocky road ice cream? With nuts? Isn't Felicity allergic to nuts?

She was and I was pretty sure it was the same category of nuts that you'd find in Rocky Road (peanuts usually cause I HATE peanuts in my ice cream)  So for that, I offer two work arounds.  

Only William had Rocky Road and she had a different kind of ice cream but that wasn't an important detail so she didn't get around to sharing.  Or the one that I'm oddly more comfortable going with.  

Flashpoint.  

So maybe for once, Barry's meddling helped instead of hurt.  The showrunners have already embraced it to explain away contradictions on The Flash (Ralph Dibly was mentioned in season one on a list of people that DIED) so why not on Arrow erase a food allergy when clearly we know she used to be allergic to the kind of nuts commonly found in ice cream and Asian food. 

We are still trying to understand what causes some allergies so something Barry did saving his mom and also putting Eobard Thawne back loose in the timeline could have had ripples going back that changed whatever triggered her nut allergy.  

Last year it pissed me off, the get out of jail free card the writers could wave when they messed with continuity but now I kind of like having a clear cut reason for it to work.    Sames me time I would spend being annoyed.  

 

5 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Thanks @Richness

Am annoyed I can't use happy ending in the context of a fairytale/story happy ending!

***

I love how unfazed William is by Olicity canoodling! 

 

I think in most contexts you can still use a happy ending to talk about fairy tales, though you can always break out Happily Ever After if there is some concern, lol

I loved William's reaction to the cuddling too even if Both Oliver and Felicity were just the tiniest self-conscious.  I also loved that there was no hesitation about if Felicity would go to the bunker or spend time with her boys.  Looking forward to next week a lot.  

Edited November 17, 2017 by BkWurm1

[apinknightmare]

Remind me - why is Dinah keeping a secret about Vince from Diggle? He’s the one who told her to look for good in him...apart from plot, is there some reason that needs to be kept a secret? Is she still planning on offing him and doesn’t want judgment? I can’t remember what their convo was last week - I don’t think they left it at a place where she might possibly consider joining his crusade, did they?

[BkWurm1]

56 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Remind me - why is Dinah keeping a secret about Vince from Diggle? He’s the one who told her to look for good in him...apart from plot, is there some reason that needs to be kept a secret? Is she still planning on offing him and doesn’t want judgment? I can’t remember what their convo was last week - I don’t think they left it at a place where she might possibly consider joining his crusade, did they?

She let him escape last week.  Full on just let him run.  And while Diggle was up for finding the good in him, he probably wanted her to do it either while he was in a cage or at least brought in so they could reason with the dude.  Instead, she let him go and he gets to continue to target people they, in turn, will have to protect.  So she has that to feel guilty about. 

I will say I enjoyed her hypocrisy after how much she went at Diggle when he was hiding something.  (while also hiding Lance's secret) 

And oh, I hadn't realized just how much I missed Lyla!!!  Dyla was just lovely.  If I'm not getting Olicity making out, I'll take Dyla. 

Diggle's storyline was pointless because I have a hard time even believing Diggle would have hidden his injury in the first place let alone try to find a cure outside of all the resources he had at his fingertips.  BUT if we were going to have to have it, this was probably the best resolution to it.  He came clean and he figured it all out on his own and offered no excuses or denials.  And everyone was gracious and they are going to try and help him using all the resources he should have tapped in the first place. 

I also can't imagine there being much of a rift between Diggle and Oliver once the truth comes out.  Maybe an episode-long one at most.  Maybe not even that.  This Diggle is too ready to take his punishment and Oliver too aware of the gift Diggle gave him by taking up the hood from him to be too mad.

Setting aside KA's Twitter escapes, the guy didn't make much of an impression.  He could have been any generic crime boss.  The only moment I liked with him ( or even really remember) was when he was testing Diggle's muscles.  A tiny bit of humor, plus he looked so tiny, lol. 

  The Slade story flashbacks make a nice follow up to what happened after he was on the Amazo and I might have been more interested in season two.  I guess what it did here was sell the moment where we didn't know for sure if Slade would try to betray Oliver or not.  

I think if we never see Manu again, they set his kid up as the replacement complicated villain since Oliver is still not going to want to kill him.  Though given he was a murder before he could drive, I have deep doubts about Joe being up for reform. Also, now he knows Oliver has a kid and has put him on his own hit list.  So good luck Oliver.  Once again, he didn't seem to take the threat to his kid's life very seriously.   

It wasn't my favorite episode by far but there have been many that were so much worse so I'll just take the small bits of good and look forward to the rest of the season.  

About Oliver once again affirming how right he felt about not still wearing the hood.  I'm sure next week William will affirm how important it is that he wears it and that it's what people need and makes him proud to be his son blah, blah blah, but it's more complicated from Oliver's standpoint now.  He's heard the tale of Slade's kid seeing him kill and emulating him in the worst way, so William giving the big speech to let Oliver go back to the hood isn't enough.  Oliver has to be assured that he's not corrupting William's mind or tainting his sense of right and wrong and has to be sure he's not going to leave William without a parent. 

I have a hard time imagining the show actually managing to do that.  More likely Oliver will simply have to start wearing it again because he's needed and there's no other option and all the reasons why he's good not doing so now will be glossed over. 

 

I'm torn as to if I believe he wants to quit or not. 

I think he could live very happily if he didn't have to be the GA but that he also is someone that feels if he can do it, he should be doing it.  So Diggle taking over was the ideal solution except for the part where Diggle can't.  But Oliver also hasn't really ever managed to not get back involved this time around. 

Even in the episode where he was mostly focused on William getting a good grade on his math test, he still risked his job to prevent the Anti vigilante law be invoked.  He's still fighting in his own way.  And he couldn't help but get involved when Felicity was out in the field and he may have told Felicity he wanted her to tell him to stay but he'd already picked out all he was going to bring on the trip.  He was ready to go and once there, even when he had an out and Slade told him twice to go home, he dived back in. 

So I'm not sure just how much he mentally is out this time even as I totally believe he could be fine only indirectly getting involved from time to time. 

 I don't think I've ever followed a hero that has tried to quit as much as this Oliver.  Occasionally hanging up the mask sure, all heroes occasionally have done that, but he's tried to quit or had quit in every season.  No one, not any of the support characters on Arrow or any character on any other Arrowverse show or any superhero show of any kind that I recall has ever had the hero trying to quit as much as he has.

I think Clark on Smallville ran from what he could be for a long time but putting off going full-time hero seems really different than retiring every chance he gets. 

The closest comparison is Sara but when she'd walk away, it was because of bigger reasons, like not being able to manage her bloodlust or selling her soul back to the LoA to save the city.  Even this last time when she was working retail, she still talked about patrolling at night.  

The only other one trying to quit is the guy that is actually past retirement age.    

Edited November 17, 2017 by BkWurm1

[apinknightmare]

11 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

She let him escape last week.  Full on just let him run.  And while Diggle was up for finding the good in him, he probably wanted her to do it either while he was in a cage or at least brought in so they could reason with the dude.  Instead, she let him go and he gets to continue to target people they, in turn, will have to protect.  So she has that to feel guilty about. 

Ah, that makes sense. Clearly that scene was incredibly riveting for me!

[BkWurm1]

She also hasn't mentioned he's a meta that I recall at least.  

[Hiveminder]

I’m sure that Oliver does enjoy the adrenaline rush and feeling he gets when he’s able to actually help someone, but not to the degree that missing that would be enough to make him take up all the stress, danger, and disadvantages being GA comes with again. 

I’ve always seen his motivation for becoming a vigilante and going back to it after the many times he’s tried to quit as driven mainly by guilt, obligation, and a perhaps subconscious belief that violence is the only way he can help against the injustice he sees around him. 

He’s just tried to leave so many times, and they’ve never, imo, showed him craving the rush he gets in a fight or fighting against the urge to go suit up. If they’ve tried to show that, they’ve been unsuccessful. 

The way I see it, Oliver feels obligated to help people and never believed that he could do that in some other way or had something that truly gave him a reason to not be a vigilante other than his own personal desires(which he values fairly lowly). Now he can help people through being the mayor, and he has a son who needs him at home being a father instead of running around fighting criminals. 

[Mellowyellow]

Okay this episode bored the crap out of me so I went and watched the only good thing about it and had to laugh at her face here.

It is the naughtiest face! Oh what these two must get up to in their spare time!

 

[ladylaw99]

That episode was so boring.  The only good thing was how much work I got done during that hour.

I loved Slade in Season 1 and 2 but last night, I can't put my finger on it but I felt so out of sync with the episode.  

I was happy to see Lyla and have Diggle come clean even thou that was one of the stupidest stories to give Diggle (drugs).  He deserves better in my opinion and David Ramsey could handle a juicy storyline.

Of course I loved Olicity.  William is good in small dosage so as long as they do that I am ok with the kid.  I also loved William playing video games with Felicity, it was a cute moment.

This really should have been one episode arc not 2.

I am looking forward to next week hopefully things are back to normal.

[quarks]

2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Flashpoint.  

So maybe for once, Barry's meddling helped instead of hurt. 

I can accept quite a lot from these shows, but not this.

[Morrigan2575]

2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

 She was and I was pretty sure it was the same category of nuts that you'd find in Rocky Road (peanuts usually cause I HATE peanuts in my ice cream)  So for that, I offer two work arounds.  

Only William had Rocky Road and she had a different kind of ice cream but that wasn't an important detail so she didn't get around to sharing.  Or the one that I'm oddly more comfortable going with.  

I think Rocky Road has Walnuts not peanuts. I could be wrong or there are different variations.

Also an allergy to peanuts doesn't mean an allergy to walnuts (different types of nuts/family's) - I Googled this.

In theory she could eat Rocky Road with Walnuts and not contradict her Peanut Allergy.  Or she could eat Rock Road with Peanuts and not contradict a Walnut Allergy.

Did they ever specify which nut she was allergic too?

Edited November 17, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[ComicFan777]

According this:
http://deshelled.com/type-nuts-rocky-road-ice-cream/

The original rocky road ice cream used to have walnuts, but now generally have almonds but varies between brands.

Edited November 17, 2017 by ComicFan777

[Chaser]

When Felicitys peanut allergy is the most interesting thing about an episode...?

[Mellowyellow]

I'm going with she has a peanut allergy and can eat other nuts .

Although she had an attack from a brownie. Do people put peanuts in brownies? I usually see walnuts in recipes.

But as @ComicFan777 pointed out, rocky road is made with almonds usually so I'm sure she can eat it just fine! 

[bijoux]

11 hours ago, WindofChange said:

She helps with his science project (yes, she helped and there's nothing that will change my mind about this), gives him ice cream for dinner, plays video games with him, helps him with his math homework :') 

Next thing you know she and William are hiding a puppy together from Oliver :')

Well, you know Oliver will end up being the one to house train and walk him.

[tv echo]

9 hours ago, JamieLynn832002 said:

Dinah said last week that Vincent used to leave roses in matchbooks (I think there was more to it than that but I don't remember) and then when she went to her car after saying there was nothing of him left in Vigilante, there was one sitting on the hood.

Dinah (to Diggle): "He didn't always make bullets. Vince. He used to make this matchbox art with a tiny, little paper rose on the inside. He made me one the morning Sonos found out we were undercover. There is nothing left of that man anymore, John."

9 hours ago, thegirlsleuth said:

II was talking about the Kreisberg situation with a friend a few days ago, and we ended up discussing the comments last year from Marguerite Sauvage, the writer of the comic Bombshells.  Generally, we were talking about how when female writers are shut down you get really lopsided stories, and personally, I really care about the way female heroes are written. The episode tonight with the fathers and sons and more sons and possible sons who might show up and be evil made me think of her quote:

From Den of Geek's review of this episode: "Because this is a superhero show, father-son stories abound, and they are laid on thick."

Edited November 17, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

On this episode of Deathstroke Arrow...

Parts of this episode bored me, but not the entire episode. That said, there were things I liked and things I didn't like in this episode.

I kept waiting to see what Oliver's "big decision" was going to be (as promised in the episode synopsis)... and nothing. He made no big decisions in this episode, unless you count his concluding that he was right not to be the Green Arrow - which is really just affirming a past decision.

I also kept waiting for

Spoiler

Diggle's secret-keeping to come to a "tragic, tragic head" (as indicated by DR in interviews)... and nothing. He confessed to his wife and to the team, and that's it. They accepted his apology and moved on. Maybe that'll still happen in a future episode?

I thought Manu Bennett did an excellent acting job in portraying the different layers of Slade in this episode. I can see why he loved these two Slade episodes. It gave him a chance to show off his acting muscles. I also thought that Liam Hall did a decent job portraying Joe. In fact, I liked most of the scenes between Slade and Joe. However, it was hard to relate to or understand Joe because we have no history with him, whereas we are already very familiar with Slade. So there was an imbalance there.

I also wish there had been more closure for their relationship at the end, but I can understand why they left it so open-ended. That way, Slade can return in the future - or they've set up a future Deathstroke TV series about Slade and his two sons, Joe and Grant. (I really hope that Joe doesn't end up kidnapping William this season. William getting kidnapped has become a running joke.) The Ghost Shado parts were cringe-inducing, especially when Slade kept calling her "my love" - as if they had been lovers back on Lian Yu (which never happened). Also, the number of times that Slade said "kid" was like a drinking game.

Diggle's big confessions to his wife and to his team resulted in some rather anti-climactic scenes ('what?!' ... 'okay, cool').  I still liked the Diggle and Lyla scenes, although I thought Lyla's turnaround was rather quick, first being angry and then being accepting and forgiving. Team Arrow was also rather quick to accept and forgive.

I liked the long fight sequence of Oliver fighting the Jackals. It was nice to see him in action again. I miss that. I liked the scene where Felicity is basically supervising Curtis and Rene as they work on the computers. And I loved the ending scene with Oliver and Felicity - and, yes, William.

Edited November 17, 2017 by tv echo

[tangerine95]

That was pretty boring.I'm not a big Slade fan tho I enjoyed him in the first two seasons.Still two Slade centric episodes were too much and I can't even bring myself to care about Oliver's kid let alone Slade's psychotic son.I feel like it would have been more interesting if Slade was the supporting player and it was about Oliver,not this almost backdoor pilot kind of thing.Also I find the whole thing they're setting up annoying with Oliver needing to make sure William doesn't turn out like that.I'm over the sons and fathers storylines.

I'm surprised Digg came clean,I was really expecting that to come out at the worst,most dramatic moment.

I liked the olicity moment,they're so cute and happy together.It's even more amazing than in season 4.I don't really get the feels for the whole family thing with William but its not as annoying as I expected so I'm fine with it.The kid does seem to work better with EBR imo.I think it's because they have lighter scenes where SA gets the emotional ones where he's giving it his all while the kid is kinda blank most of the time.

Edited November 17, 2017 by tangerine95

[insomniadreams88]

3 minutes ago, tv echo said:

I kept waiting to see what Oliver's "big decision" was going to be (as promised in the episode synopsis)... and nothing. He made no big decisions in this episode, unless you count his concluding that he was right not to be the Green Arrow - which is really just affirming a past decision.

Oh yeah, I'd forgotten about that. I think it's kind of like how Felicity was the "surprising source" Oliver went to in 603 - it's great for a synopsis, but then once you see the episode, you go, "uh, not really?" 

[KirkB]

I like Slade. However, two episodes focused on him and his family issues (as opposed to Oliver and his, since while I don't care about William myself this is supposed to be Oliver's show) confirms that I prefer Slade as a bad guy. An antagonist to Oliver. When the big guy in the mask shows up I want Oliver and the team's reaction to be "Oh crap!" not "Looks like Slade needs another favor."

Edited November 17, 2017 by KirkB

[SmallScreenDiva]

21 minutes ago, KirkB said:

When the big guy in the mask shows up I want Oliver and the team's reaction to be "Oh crap!" not "Looks like Slade needs another favor."

Agree. I feel like they defanged him a bit too much and removed that interesting tension between him and Oliver. 

[tangerine95]

Yeah I realized I like Slade more as a villain.Him and Oliver worked as friends on the island and were interesting because they were so opposite and Oliver was a different person so it created a different dynamic.I would have preferred Slade stayed a villain and maybe returned again to try to keep his promise.

[GHScorpiosRule]

God, what an interminable SNOOZEFEST.

Yeah, sure, Oliver. You're "convinced" you made the right decision to dump the Arrow onto John's shoulders. Yep. I believe you. For SUUUUUURE! You'll probably change your mind

after the crossover, when you meet your

Nazi Doppleganger

I guess.

[insomniadreams88]

I feel like the problem with Slade is that before 523, he was so obviously still a villain. Just look at 314! Then they realized, "hey, we can bring Slade back and give him 2 episodes next season, so let's just blame the mirakuru, forget that he wasn't on it in 314, even say that it faded in the flashbacks in 606 and hope that no one wants an explanation about it. They'll just be happy that he's there and we have at least one good action scene with him. Great!" 

[Belinea]

10 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Anyone else just confused by the layout of Oliver’s apartment? The apartment has roof access? Is there a back door to another hallway that leads to the access to the roof? 

Maybe they have access from Oliver's room? Weird apartement. What I thought was weird as well was the fact that the window showed all these raindrops and they'd go to the roof even though it is seemingly raining outside. 

[apinknightmare]

8 minutes ago, Belinea said:

Maybe they have access from Oliver's room? Weird apartement. What I thought was weird as well was the fact that the window showed all these raindrops and they'd go to the roof even though it is seemingly raining outside. 

Plus there's a balcony on the other side of that window - was it raining horizontally?

[strikera0]

LOL, this was supposed to be our introduction to the dangerous and formidable Richard Dragon? Geez, this dude came across like a dimwitted junkie to me. Ain't nothing threatening about him!

[statsgirl]

Maybe the excitement of the show has worn off for me but I can see the strings on the puppets more and more.  Unless there's more to Diggle's injury, it served to 1. introduce Dragon as an antagonist for him and 2. set up Felicity and Curti's new company with their purpose.  There were two Deathstroke episodes either because DC wants to push the character of Deathstroke in something or because the show needed filler.

Best thing:  they didn't drag out Diggle's secret.  (I'm find with Dinah's, I don't care about her and I want it to bite her back.)

It's hard to know how much Oliver wants to quit and how much he wants to be the Green Arrow because he's never really been given the choice.  At first it was his father's burden and after it was because it was expected of him or because he felt no one else was there to take on the job ().  season 4, they called him back because they couldn't handle DD on their ownHe probably felt good handing it over to Diggle because he could trust him to go a good job along with Dinah, Rene and Curtis and Felicity. 

On the other hand, Oliver is now 32 and feeling the effects of the past 11 years.  (SA is 36 and his body is definitely feeling the effects of the past five years of stunts.)  Tamara Pierce had a great line in Knight where Alanna says your body counts up the battles of the years and when you're thirty hands you the bill.

I could hope for Flashpoint doing some good for a change instead of just bad stuff.  Arrow only got bad repercussions from Barry,

11 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I love that while Felicity looks over at William Oliver just keeps staring at her for a little bit longer.

 

10 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

I love love love how she's yammering on and Oliver is like "Come here you little cutie."

I have to give SA credit -- he really sells the "Oliver reacts to Felicity" parts, and the hug with William.  He doesn't just stand around and let the action happen around him, he adds to the scene and make it more complex.

11 hours ago, thegirlsleuth said:

Reading The Dark Tower and everything, endlessly, about the face of your father, the reign of your father, his kingdom and his gun. Lord of the Rings and the endless lines of kings and princes that convey power and destiny and the right to the throne, and 3 women speak. A Song of Ice and Fire and every culture in it crushing the women underfoot, filled with abuse, constriction, and rape, and-- then OUTRAGE that Dany would say "All men must die, but we are not men"."

There a couple of more sentences in which she takes on Mary Sues, but I do like how she confronts how dominant the father-son dynamic is in literature/comics.  

I think when it comes to TV, I find the father/daughter dynamic more interesting and complex.  With a son it's pretty much will he take on the mantle of his father and be like him. With a daughter, there's the need to make her strong and independent at contrast with the need to protect her.  I remember when Magnum PI gave him a daughter rather than a son, I was surprised and pleased.

Likewise, it would have been interesting seeing Diggle trying to raise a daughter with Lyla for a mother.  Would he want her to be someone who joins ARGUS like her mother, or be protected?  So much lost storyline making Sara into JJ.

5 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

She let him escape last week.  Full on just let him run.  And while Diggle was up for finding the good in him, he probably wanted her to do it either while he was in a cage or at least brought in so they could reason with the dude.

Diggle's had experience -- leave the guy in a cage and work it out there even if he is someone you love.

[Angel12d]

20 minutes ago, strikera0 said:

LOL, this was supposed to be our introduction to the dangerous and formidable Richard Dragon? Geez, this dude came across like a dimwitted junkie to me. Ain't nothing threatening about him!

This! I can't even remember his scenes either, that's how much of an impression he made on me. And I had trouble understanding what he was saying tbh.

[apinknightmare]

21 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

And I had trouble understanding what he was saying tbh.

I've only seen him in a couple things - and neither were recent. He used to be very easy to understand. Last night he was talking like he had cotton in his mouth.

[tv echo]

What big decision?...

[ohjoy]

I got started on the episode late, but that's okay, because I FF'd through most  of it anyway.

16 hours ago, quarks said:

I realize there's some stiff competition, but this may have been the single most pointless episode in Arrow's history.

Truth.

 

16 hours ago, WindofChange said:

Best part:

This was totally a fanfic come to life. Felicity gives William junkfood and Oliver is unimpressed, Oliver coming home to see Felicity playing video games with William, William interrupting Oliver/Felicity's kiss :')

This and the Dyla scenes were the only moments I actually enjoyed.

Oh, plus Dig's confession to (most of) the team, solely for Curtis' "Hello, I gave a paralyzed woman the ability to walk" reaction. (Seriously, that's the most I've like Curtis in a solid year.)

 

I will say, this synopsis --

14 hours ago, Hiveminder said:

I’m not sure what they’re trying to do with Oliver’s motivation.  Oliver fully intended to stop being the Hood when he thought they were about to stop the undertaking in season one. He tried to give it up by secluding himself on the very island where he was tortured, nearly died, and watched people he cared about die between seasons one and two. He didn’t want to put the Hood back on in the beginning of season two until Thea was kidnapped. He spent season three hating his life and then gave up being the Arrow at the end of the season. He seemed content and happy in Ivy Town and had to practically be dragged back to Star City in season four. He tried to give up being GA in season five because Chase made him believe it was all based on that killer nonsense. Now he’s given it up for his son’s sake (a really, really good reason), and he seems really happy. 

This man does not want to do this.

sums up an aspect of the whole show I hadn't spent much time thinking about: why are they so obsessed with the idea of Oliver trying to get out of this life, only to be sucked back in?  Once or twice is fine, but wow, that's pretty much every season. Even the Winchesters gave up on trying to live a "civilian" life after a while. 

[Angel12d]

13 hours ago, Soulfire said:

 

This was too cute. ?

[SmallScreenDiva]

11 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

This was too cute. ?

There's an Olicity edit on Tumblr called "How to get out of trouble with your hubby" that has Felicity's reactions to Oliver. I'll put the GIFs in the Clock Tower thread.

[TwistedandBored]

I really liked seeing Dyla and Olicity together. EBR's natural chemistry with the young William actor is really making start to actually tolerate the Myson. Nice going there writers.

The rest just bored me.

Also, I am kinda of sad that is the entrance Richard Dragon gets. After all the hype about him being badass, I was expecting something better. Seriously, what an underwhelming entrance.

That is two episode in a row the writers have disappointed me with their reveals. First with Prometheus and now with Richard Dragon. Hope they do better with Dragon in the future at least.