S06.E06: Promises Kept

[KenyaJ]

4 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I have to give SA credit -- he really sells the "Oliver reacts to Felicity" parts, and the hug with William.  He doesn't just stand around and let the action happen around him, he adds to the scene and make it more complex.

Ooh, I'm glad you mentioned this because it's one of my absolute favorite things about SA's performance. He's always so present in his scenes with EBR, and he always adds little reactions to her that clearly aren't scripted but really sell their relationship and make it feel real. His voice even changes when he talks to her. I love it so much.

As for the Great Nut debate, I always assumed Felicity is allergic to tree nuts, as am I. One of the reasons why is because peanuts are actually legumes, not nuts, and I feel like that's a distinction Felicity would note, LOL. So I assumed that William ate protein-adjacent Rocky Road and Felicity ate one of the 20 pints of Mint Chocolate Chip that Oliver stocked in his freezer after he and Felicity got back together. 

[Mellowyellow]

haha the great nut debate has gotten this thread to 3 pages!

I could say some more about it actually but I will stop! It is definitely one of the more interesting and scandalous things about the episode! 

[KirkB]

Since I avoid spoilers I didn't even know until I read it here the guy Diggle was dealing with was supposed to be a version of Richard Dragon. In spite of his street name I never would have made that connection.

[AudienceofOne]

Is this show so wedded to the flashback concept that they need to manufacture them for minor characters and then devote two episodes to them?

That was a yawnfest and I'm the one who didn't mind the first half. 

I was kind of excited at the idea of Oliver being off doing secret agent stuff because I always kind of liked that. But he barely did that either. Also I'm caught up so now I have to wait a week for an episode like everyone else. Boo.

[BkWurm1]

11 hours ago, ComicFan777 said:

According this:
http://deshelled.com/type-nuts-rocky-road-ice-cream/

The original rocky road ice cream used to have walnuts, but now generally have almonds but varies between brands.

 

1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

haha the great nut debate has gotten this thread to 3 pages!

I could say some more about it actually but I will stop! It is definitely one of the more interesting and scandalous things about the episode! 

1

The Great Nut Debate got me to break the wall of fandom and call my mother lol, and ask about the Rocky Road she used to buy us when we were growing up.  Yep, I was totally wrong with it being peanuts.  They were almonds which surprised me because I generally like almonds.  Now I think I just hate cold nuts. 

Long live Chocolate Marshmellow ice cream!  (the de-rocked version of the road)  

Something that struck me about the ice cream for dinner thing.  I realized later William is way too old to rat out Felicity to his dad about eating ice cream for dinner.  Little kids that were so excited about it and don't get the implication that they could get their benefactor in trouble would blurt it out, but a 12-year-old??  When his dad didn't even ask about dinner??  Yeah, I don't think so.  

[SmallScreenDiva]

2 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Something that struck me about the ice cream for dinner thing.  I realized later William is way too old to rat out Felicity to his dad about eating ice cream for dinner.  Little kids that were so excited about it and don't get the implication that they could get their benefactor in trouble would blurt it out, but a 12-year-old??  When his dad didn't even ask about dinner??  Yeah, I don't think so.  

I didn't get the sense that he was ratting her out, more of "this is what we had, yay!" He seemed intent on giving Oliver the "highlights" of his day(s) and having ice cream with Felicity was apparently one of them.

Lordy! I'm defending MySon. What the hell is going on?!?!

[way2interested]

Plus he already complained that Raisa made him eat granola, might as well rub it in Oliver's face that Felicity let him eat ice cream to spite Oliver's "it's good for you" comment.

16 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Lordy! I'm defending MySon. What the hell is going on?!?!

The power of Felicity and EBR's chemistry is strong.

[KenyaJ]

33 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I didn't get the sense that he was ratting her out, more of "this is what we had, yay!" He seemed intent on giving Oliver the "highlights" of his day(s) and having ice cream with Felicity was apparently one of them.

Yeah, I took it as more of a "Here's another reason I think Felicity is cool" comment than an attempt to rat her out.

[BunsenBurner]

My thoughts:

I think Manu was wearing a wig. 

When Dragon came on my brother said, “Look it’s the guy from Fringe who couldn’t act.” Waited a few seconds and said, “And he still can’t.”

SA had a good fight scene towards the end of the show. I may be wrong but I think he stabbed one guy then while fighting another guy pulled it out of the first guy and stabbed the 2nd guy. He fought like he did in Season 1-2. 

Whoever was SA’s stunt double tripped when he and Manu jumped out of the window.

The reunion with Felicity was a really good moment. 

[Hiveminder]

2 hours ago, BunsenBurner said:

 

Whoever was SA’s stunt double tripped when he and Manu jumped out of the window.

I noticed that. Like a quarter of his legs didn’t quite clear the window. Super awkward looking. 

[statsgirl]

3 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Something that struck me about the ice cream for dinner thing.  I realized later William is way too old to rat out Felicity to his dad about eating ice cream for dinner.  Little kids that were so excited about it and don't get the implication that they could get their benefactor in trouble would blurt it out, but a 12-year-old??  When his dad didn't even ask about dinner??  Yeah, I don't think so.  

So the "William is like a 4 year old" didn't come from SA then.

[BkWurm1]

2 hours ago, KenyaJ said:

Yeah, I took it as more of a "Here's another reason I think Felicity is cool" comment than an attempt to rat her out.

That's just it, I absolutely don't think he'd rat her out or try to or want to.  And I can't buy that as he was listing off what Oliver missed, he'd mention ice cream for dinner without being aware of what he was saying.  He's at an age where he'd find her cool letting him have ice cream AND be aware his granola loving dad might object?  If they'd played it off as if he was kind of rubbing it in in a teasing way with his dad, it would have IMO worked but William acted oblivious in a way I can associate with a much younger kid, but not a 12 year old.  

I guess I could convince myself William knows his dad is sooooo gone of Felicity he's positive there is NOTHING he could tell his dad that would really get her in trouble.  :D

Edited November 18, 2017 by BkWurm1

[Mellowyellow]

9 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

 

The Great Nut Debate got me to break the wall of fandom and call my mother lol, and ask about the Rocky Road she used to buy us when we were growing up.  Yep, I was totally wrong with it being peanuts.  They were almonds which surprised me because I generally like almonds.  Now I think I just hate cold nuts. 

Long live Chocolate Marshmellow ice cream!  (the de-rocked version of the road)  

Something that struck me about the ice cream for dinner thing.  I realized later William is way too old to rat out Felicity to his dad about eating ice cream for dinner.  Little kids that were so excited about it and don't get the implication that they could get their benefactor in trouble would blurt it out, but a 12-year-old??  When his dad didn't even ask about dinner??  Yeah, I don't think so.  

So are we agreeing that she ate the Rocky Road with almonds? 

It's funny thought I was on Twitter, being nosey and it seems like the ice cream thing has blown people's minds in the funnest of ways! My take from this is that Felicity eating nuts was very contriversial and ground breaking for 606!

Ok my head canon is that William misses his mum and now he's realising slowly that he's got Felicity. She's warm, she tutors him, she comes over to take care of him when he's sick of Raisa and she lets him eat ice cream for dinner. I think he's just so excited to have that kind of love again he couldn't help but blurt it out.

I LOVE nuts in my ice cream! Macadamia Caramel! Mmmmmm

[Angel12d]

This thread talking about Felicity's nut allergy instead of the actual episode. ? ? ?

[SmallScreenDiva]

5 hours ago, Angel12d said:

This thread talking about Felicity's nut allergy instead of the actual episode. ? ? ?

It's honestly more entertaining than that snorefest that was Slade Wilson and Son.

[bijoux]

I finally got around to watching this episode of All Slade's Children and I have to say, I'm confused on multiple accounts. So, one. Slade somehow got back to ASIS's welcoming arms where he was marginally normall for two years when he found out that Oliver was alive and that kicked the Mirakuru into gear and made it flame up again. I could sort of maybe understand this somewhat if Oliver hadn't showed up alive six, and not five years ago per the title card. Does ASIS geet news really late or were they showing reruns?

Two, Slade was never a gun for hire? Season 2 was a long time ago, but I thought he got the money he came to SC precisely as being a gun for hire.

Three, Joe Kane had enough initiative to slit a guy's throat at 13 (and presumably get a step stool to actually be able to reach that high), but it was his mother that changed his name after he had reunited with Slade and was presumably in his early 20s?

Four, I'm trying to figure out wherein lay Dig's stupidity. Was it that he actually thought that this was an experimental treatment delivered to a back alley nar you, or did he knowingly walked into a villain's lair and exposed his identity to the said villain and his henchmen? My God, what is Diaz going to do, use that 3D printer to make action figures of Dig and distribute them around to SC's worst to use as voodoo dolls? Come on, Dig! In all honesty though, I liked Dig's come to Jesus scenes, particularly the last one with Lyla. That, along with Olicity's scene and Rene go in the plus column for me.

[BkWurm1]

16 hours ago, bijoux said:

Was it that he actually thought that this was an experimental treatment delivered to a back alley nar you, or did he knowingly walked into a villain's lair and exposed his identity to the said villain and his henchmen?

I think he thought it was black market but legitimate treatment, just one still pending approval.  But I'm fuzzy who he thought he was dealing with.  Diaz acted like a drug lord vetting his clientele, making sure he wasn't a narc but talked like he had one foot on the legitimate side of things when he talked about just waiting for that approval.  But even if Diggle thought he was getting a drug that would eventually be legit, what did he think about all the other drugs this guy was making or did he think there were so many people taking black market drugs for nerve damage that was all Diaz made?

[AudienceofOne]

58 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I think he thought it was black market but legitimate treatment, just one still pending approval.  But I'm fuzzy who he thought he was dealing with.  Diaz acted like a drug lord vetting his clientele, making sure he wasn't a narc but talked like he had one foot on the legitimate side of things when he talked about just waiting for that approval.  But even if Diggle thought he was getting a drug that would eventually be legit, what did he think about all the other drugs this guy was making or did he think there were so many people taking black market drugs for nerve damage that was all Diaz made?

I think it was a case of ignoring his instincts because he was desperate to believe this was merely "experimental and waiting approval" rather than black market. It is actually illegal to sell a drug that doesn't yet have approval because it means it's still being tested. This is the equivalent of illegal human testing and, yes, if a lab is doing this they could get busted for it. Approval can take years so there is a market here. Your final point is where his wilful blindness came in. If he'd thought about it, he would have taken ten seconds to realise something was wrong. So he didn't think about it.

Forgetting Dig for the moment, I admit that I was a bit confused about what Diaz's operation actually was. Even though Felicity delivered some exposition to explain it, it wasn't clear at all. He was using 3D printers to illegally manufacture drugs, that's true. And with US drug patents the way they are, printing cheap generics would be easy money if you could do it well enough. But if Dig's drug was a legitimate drug that Diaz was printing then why did Dig need Diaz when he could have bought it legally? And if it wasn't a legitimate drug then where did it come from in the first place? Was Diaz also developing drugs? Because that is super expensive (which is why only large legitimate labs do it). It seems the drug actually worked for Dig with minimal side effects, which means it worked as advertised. So where did Diaz get the recipe? That's what confused me.

[BkWurm1]

2 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

I think it was a case of ignoring his instincts because he was desperate to believe this was merely "experimental and waiting approval" rather than black market. It is actually illegal to sell a drug that doesn't yet have approval because it means it's still being tested. This is the equivalent of illegal human testing and, yes, if a lab is doing this they could get busted for it. Approval can take years so there is a market here. Your final point is where his wilful blindness came in. If he'd thought about it, he would have taken ten seconds to realise something was wrong. So he didn't think about it.

Forgetting Dig for the moment, I admit that I was a bit confused about what Diaz's operation actually was. Even though Felicity delivered some exposition to explain it, it wasn't clear at all. He was using 3D printers to illegally manufacture drugs, that's true. And with US drug patents the way they are, printing cheap generics would be easy money if you could do it well enough. But if Dig's drug was a legitimate drug that Diaz was printing then why did Dig need Diaz when he could have bought it legally? And if it wasn't a legitimate drug then where did it come from in the first place? Was Diaz also developing drugs? Because that is super expensive (which is why only large legitimate labs do it). It seems the drug actually worked for Dig with minimal side effects, which means it worked as advertised. So where did Diaz get the recipe? That's what confused me.

3

No, I understand that a drug that hasn't gotten FDA approval is an illegal drug.  But I'm saying that Dig is convinced it is a drug specifically made to address his issue rather than some drug meant to get people high that had the happy side effect

of steadying his hands.  But that's where i get confused as well because not only like you asked, where did he get the formula, but WHY would this guy be making it?  What's his market? It would make more sense if it was also some kind of street drug.  It's not like he was only making just enough to meet Diggle's needs (like I originally expected.)  He had boxes and boxes.  So who was he selling them to? And why?  I can't believe there would be enough people in Dig's situation that would hit the underworld for a solution.  

[AudienceofOne]

Printing generics would make way more cash than narcotics if you could get production right, especially with drug prices in the US. So that makes sense. But while there would be a good market of people with permanent nerve damage who couldn’t afford a new drug and so would happily buy from Diaz, I find it hard to believe Dig couldn’t afford the drug at its retail price. That’s why the setup didn’t make sense to me. 

[BkWurm1]

I'm also really curious to know who told Diggle to get this drug from him.  I mean, he didn't go to anyone to talk about his problem.  So where would he get his intel?

[statsgirl]

I also want to know why he needed an industrial grade 3D printer.  Wouldn't it be faster using the old-fashioned test tube way?

[ComicFan777]

A 3D printer would allow for customized concentrations/dosages in layers of meds, so if you think about it, it would actually be pretty smart for a drug dealer to apply this to street drugs.  Theoretically, he could develop a kind of drug that uses multiple layers of different drugs that would dissolve at different rates when taken - you could have an everlasting gobstopper of drugs for a continually changing high.

[statsgirl]

Wouldn't all the layers dissolve together in the stomach, unless parts were encased in slow-dissolving coverings like they have for time-release drugs?

But if It works, it sounds like it would be a good idea for regular medications too -- long term drugs for pain ADHD or other  illnesses.  I wonder why it isn't being used for that.

[ComicFan777]

Yeah, the layers would need to be encased for time-release.  I think when the first 3D-printed drug was approved by the FDA a couple of years ago, it was a big deal because this meant that they are one step closer towards streamlining an efficient process that would allow people to customize dosages and drug combinations specifically for each patient. 

[statsgirl]

So he's ahead of the drug manufacturers?  Cool.

[AudienceofOne]

This show is often ahead of the game in terms of the technology they represent. It's not as off the wall as you'd think and drug pirating through 3D printing is a fantastic example. Back when this was supposedly the show grounded in realism and they didn't destroy it with this mysticism bullshit, they often played 'what if' games with possible future tech like proper scifi.

Google pirating of generic drugs and you'll see this is an issue right now with countries like China and India trying to bypass US patent law to supply cheaper drugs. The development of 3D printing could revolutionise this. If you're interested, you could listen to the Flash Forward podcast episode Piraeceuticals.

https://www.flashforwardpod.com/2017/10/03/piraceuticals/

[ComicFan777]

I wonder if Felicity will end up using 3D printing to help Diggle repair his nerve damage.  It looks like there's been studies that have tested 3D printing to aid nerve regeneration:
https://3dprint.com/96504/3d-print-silicone-guide-nerve/
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/repairing-nerve-pathways-3-d-printing

[tv echo]

606 (Promises Kept) – No Oliver Queen voiceover intro.

606 (Promises Kept) – Team Arrow learns about a new player in town known as the Dragon:
Felicity: "Curtis, you were right. The thieves were after the components of a 3-D printer."
Rene: "Two innocent people get killed because some psycho wants to print plastic toys?"
Curtis: "This wasn't a consumer 3-D printer. This was military grade."
Rene: "You saying there's a printer that can print weapons?"
Curtis: "Or drones or chemicals."
Dinah (entering): "Sorry I missed the fun. Anyone want to catch me up?"
Diggle: "Break-in. Cadmus Tech."
Dinah: "You're thinking Cayden James?"
Curtis: "That's what we were assuming, but this crew doesn't look like the type he usually runs with."
Dinah: "That would track with some new street chatter S.C.P.D.'s been hearing lately."
Rene: "What kind of chatter?"
Dinah: "New player. No idea what his game is. All we have is a street name--Dragon."
Felicity: "Dragon. Heh. That's colorful."
Diggle: "Tomorrow's problem. Why don't we all get some rack time, hit this fresh in the morning?"

606 (Promises Kept) – Team Arrow identifies the Dragon as Ricardo Diaz and figures out his motive for the tech theft:
Rene: "Hey, anybody in the mood to stress-eat?"
Felicity: "Always. What you got?"
Dinah: "Quadruple cheese. Must be serious."
Rene: "What's going on here?"
Diggle: "Trying to get a line on this Dragon guy, find out what he and his crew are up to."
Felicity: "Well, at least we know where they are. Just got a security alert - Palmer Tech, bio division."
Diggle: "Good. Suit up. Stay sharp. Remember, these guys aren't afraid of dropping bodies."
*  *  *
Felicity: "I ran facial recognition over John's body cam footage. Meet Ricardo Diaz and his extensive criminal record. Does anyone want to guess what his street name is? Anyone want to guess? You guys are no fun. His street name is Dragon."
Dinah: "This jerk-wad's been out of prison less than a month. He's already racked up a body count."
Rene: "This guy was doing double jolts of life plus one."
Curtis: "What's that?"
Dinah: "That's life without parole."
Rene: "What's he doing walking around?"
Felicity: "State supreme court overturned his convictions due to technicalities. But before he was on the inside, he was running with a group called the Scorpions in the Glades. John, do you know anything about the Scorpions? John? John! John! Earth to John Diggle. The Scorpions?"
Diggle: "The Scorpions? Yeah. I know them. But Diaz is on something different - new muscle, new crew. They're way too organized."
Rene: "I wonder when he got himself a new crew and how he got to be the boss of it."
Dinah: "And why he needs a weapons-grade 3-D printer."
Curtis: "I think I have the answer to that. Drugs. High-end ones. I cross-referenced the two models that were stolen. What they have in common is their capacity to simultaneously print inert polypropylenes and soft material catalyst composites."
Rene: "Did anyone understand a word of that?"
Felicity: "You think Diaz is making reactionware?"
Rene: "Anyone normal."
Felicity: "With this equipment, Diaz cuts out the middle man. He can make designer drugs more cheaply and efficiently than anyone else on the street."
Diggle: "Yeah, well, the hell he is. Whatever science experiment he's got going on, we're shutting it down."
Felicity: "Curtis, let's work up a location for Diaz's operation."
Curtis: "Yep."
Dinah: "You okay, chief?"
Diggle: "Yeah. Been a while since a perp got the drop on me, that's all."
Rene: "We'll make sure Diaz pays for that."

606 (Promises Kept) – Diggle provides the team with the address of Ricardo Diaz's base of operations:
Curtis: "He doesn't show up on traffic cams. He doesn't leave a paper trail. Ricardo Diaz is good."
Felicity: "How's the research on his old associates going?"
Rene: "Going lousy. Everybody mentioned in his arrest records is either missing or dead."
Dinah: "That explains why no one's willing to talk to the department about Dragon."
Diggle (entering): "I got something - Diaz's address, his base of operations."
Rene: "How the hell did you get that?"
Diggle: "It's a contact. That's all I can say."
Felicity: "Got it. Thermal imaging shows a lot of activity inside."
Curtis: "Got to figure Diaz is in there."
Dinah: "Even if he's not, we can still disrupt his drug operation."
Rene: "Let's take this guy down."
Diggle: "Suit up."

606 (Promises Kept) – Oliver returns home to William and Felicity:
William: "I'm gonna win."
Felicity: "Nope! Oh, I almost got you. Come on! Gah!"
William: "Yes."
Felicity: "No!"
William: "Yes, yes, yes, yes."
Felicity: "Rematch? Rematch."
William: "All right."
Felicity: "I got you one."
Oliver: "Hi."
William: "Hey."
Oliver: "Hey, buddy, come here."
William: "Okay, ah, you weren't gone that long."
Oliver: "I know. I know. I'm happy to see you. It's allowed."
William: "So what happened with your friend?"
Oliver: "He found his son."
William: "That's good."
Oliver: "So what'd I miss?"
William: "Well, Raisa made me clean my room."
Oliver: "Good."
William: "Felicity and I ate ice cream for dinner, and I got an 'A' on my science project."
Oliver: "You got an 'A'?"
William: "Yeah."
Oliver: "That's fantastic. Is it here? Can I see it?"
William: "Yeah, sure. It's a bottle rocket. Went 300 feet, the farthest in the whole school."
Oliver: "Unbelievable."
William: "I'll go get it." (Leaves room)
Oliver: "All right."
Felicity: "Pretty cool. I hope you don't mind that I'm here. I mean, William said that he was kind of getting sick of Raisa. And the ice cream for dinner? It was Rocky Road, so, technically, the nuts should count as protein and -"
Oliver: "I'm so happy you're here." 
(He cups her face with his hands and kisses her.)
Felicity: "Me, too. Slade got his happy ending? (Oliver looks at her) Not - like that. Ha ha."
Oliver: "It's a long story. It's a - it's a sad story."
Felicity: "I'm sensing a 'but' -"
Oliver: "I learned something."
Felicity: "Hmm?"
Oliver: "I made the right decision to not be the Green Arrow... for William and for me."
Felicity: "Good." 
(They almost start kissing again, but are interrupted when William returns.)
William: "If we can go up to the roof, I can show you how it works."
Felicity: "Yeah."
Oliver and Felicity (simultaneously): "Yes."
(Felicity's cell phone rings. Screen shows text message from Diggle: “Not an emergency - but can you get to the bunker?" Felicity texts back: "Oliver home - catch me up later?")

Edited March 16, 2020 by tv echo