S01.E09: Into the Forest I Go

[starri]

Midseason finale.

Quote

Bypassing Starfleet's orders, Lorca uses the USS Discovery crew's ultimate asset, the ship itself, in an effort to end the war with the Klingons once and for all.

[CanadaPhil]

Nice!.. looks good.

[MissLucas]

Just checked what's with the title - full quote by John Muir: “And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.” That does not sound... reassuring for a variety of characters.

[starri]

Well, that was just...great.

[CanadaPhil]

Wow!... just... Wow!

In the more than half century of Trek on TV, that was one of the best episodes ever!!....

and Stamets eyes!! Does that remind anyone of something from TOS?... think God like and all powerful. 

They have really kicked this series up ten notches. The story possibilities!! :D

Can't wait for it to return. 

[marinw]

I knew that they were doomed when Stamets and Hugh made their Opera date. Why couldn’t they just warp to the Starbase like normal people? *sob*

1 minute ago, CanadaPhil said:

Does that remind anyone of something from TOS?... think God like and all powerful. 

 

Gary Mitchell in "Where No Man Has Gone Before."

[starri]

1 minute ago, marinw said:

I knew that they were doomed when Stamets and Hugh made their Opera date

It was the kissing that tipped me off.  Although, I may be almost 40 years old, but I can't believe how much I needed to finally, FINALLY, see myself in the Trek universe.

And cheeky, with them deciding to see La Boheme.  

What you did there, I see it.

[MrWhyt]

Yeah i think the "Tyler is a Klingon sleeper" theory is pretty much confirmed now.

[CanadaPhil]

I guess we (as the audience) now have a definitive answer to the Ash/Voq thing... but the crew is in the dark.

I am happy the Admiral made it... well, at least back in the "Prime" Universe???

[starri]

I may have audibly cheered a few times.

[CanadaPhil]

15 minutes ago, marinw said:

 

Gary Mitchell in "Where No Man Has Gone Before."

Ding!

[Emily Thrace]

Well that was interesting, and a lot. 

There was a lot of joint Starfleet and Klingon wreckage there. I wonder if they haven't jumped in time. It would be a hell of mind screw for the crew if they jumped into the middle of the Dominion war where the Klingons and Starfleet were allies. I have this vague idea of them being hailed by Martok and everyone being very confused.

1 minute ago, MrWhyt said:

Yeah i think the "Tyler is a Klingon sleeper" theory is pretty much confirmed now.

I think it could be but I also think it could be that he colluded  with her while he was captive. That would certainly explain why  they kept him alive. Of course I could be giving the writers to much credit. Also turning Voq into Ash complete with memories seems a little head of the technology at least as far as I can remember.

Michael is awesome I know this is gonna start the Mary Sue haters up again but she was truly awesome.

Kol cannot be dead. He's Dax's buddy. Unless we were always in a mirror universe which would explain a lot.

Stamets and Hugh killed me, I wish I could believe he was gonna be okay.

[starri]

3 minutes ago, Emily Thrace said:

Kol cannot be dead. He's Dax's buddy.

Kor is Dax's buddy.

[marinw]

8 minutes ago, Emily Thrace said:

There was a lot of joint Starfleet and Klingon wreckage there. I wonder if they haven't jumped in time.

Wolf 359 maybe?

T'Rell is the only Klingon I find interesting. The rest of them sort of blend together.

I though Ash/Voq’s PTSD flashbacks were very visceral and well done.

Edited November 13, 2017 by marinw

[CanadaPhil]

16 minutes ago, Emily Thrace said:

 

.....Unless we were always in a mirror universe which would explain a lot.

I think this is the angle at play here. 

They began this new series in a Universe in which the real story was not meant to to take place. It was just meant to give us a little context.

Now, going forward will be the "real" deal.... if that makes sense.

It could be one Hell of a mind trip. 

But I think "Mirror" Lorca is back at home now. ;)

PS: Maybe Georgiou is even still alive! ... and Michael does not have life in prison hanging over her head?

Edited November 13, 2017 by CanadaPhil

[starri]

Given Lorca's creepy "Time to go home" comment before they jumped, and the fact that he overrode the pre-set coordinates as well, I think they're exactly where he wanted them to be.

I saw some speculation a while back that the scar on his back that Cornwell didn't recognize was from an Agonizer.

[FormerMod-a1]

I thought L'Rell looked so much better in the prison uniform, and w/o her white armor on.  

All the references of alt universes in this, you know they are no longer in "their" universe.  But which one now?  I like all the theories mentioned above.  Sigh But now I have to wait to find out.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Aw geez, it's not gonna be some 50 Shades of Star Trek with Ash and L'Rell, is it?

Great mid-season finale. I started out not feeling too hopeful about Discovery but I am all in now. Is it January yet?

[ottoDbusdriver]

18 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Aw geez, it's not gonna be some 50 Shades of Star Trek with Ash and L'Rell, is it?

In Ash's PTSD flashbacks, I'm pretty sure there was L'Rell toplessness.  Is that a first for Star Trek ?  I know DS9 had Dabo girls with a lot revealing outfits, but not actual nudity.  I suppose since this show is setting all sorts of other Star Trek firsts, why not ?

I'm still unsure if Ash is Voq.  Tortured -- for sure.  Did whatever he did to survive -- probably.  But is Ash remembering his body manipulation as torture ?

Since the Discovery jumped in 2 different directions in the 'Last Jump', does that mean we will have 2 parallel story lines ? 

Edited November 13, 2017 by ottoDbusdriver

[CanadaPhil]

6 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

In Ash's PTSD flashbacks, I'm pretty sure there was L'Rell toplessness.  Is that a first for Star Trek ?  

Yes we sure did get some Klingon boob there... but I think the "first" would have to be credited to an early episode of ENTERPRISE where Trip and Reed are admiring two clearly nude alien dancing girls where their only covering was body paint. 

[DrScottie]

1 hour ago, starri said:

And cheeky, with them deciding to see La Boheme.  

Of course,it would be La Boheme. I'm surprised they didn't ask him to make 525,600 spore jumps. 

[marinw]

31 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

But is Ash remembering his body manipulation as torture ?

The Klingons aren’t fans of anaesthetics, so maybe. 

“Cut off her legs.” That is harsh even for Klingons.

The Admiral gets the prize for best composure under tough circumstances. Even after being injured and tortured herself, she is able to help Ash.

Edited November 13, 2017 by marinw

[UNOSEZ]

Enjoyed this finale.. Maybe they were always in a mirror uni... Or maybe they were in prime.. And now have jumoed somewhere else and thats why spock doesn't talk abt his foster sis... And the federation doesn't use the spore drive... Who knows lotta places they can go... Didn't even speak on time travel... As much as i loved the arc i wouldn't mind some well done lighter stand alones  when we pick it back up... Also more tilly and more bridge crew

[Frozendiva]

Well, that was a good episode!

The eyes did remind me of Gary Mitchell. Wonder if he will suffer a similar fate - marooned or buried on some unknown planet. Stamets and Hugh seem star-crossed.

I thought L'Rell wanted to defect?

Maybe Ash had some sort of Stockholm Syndrome type connection with her? Or had false memories implanted? Might be interesting to see how it plays out - perhaps L'Rell has some long con going on.

Discovery cannot keep making those jumps forever. The power will run out. I did find it cool to see the Klingon ships uncloaking.

And we are in the middle of.... nowhere. Perhaps Talos IV is in the vicinity.

[Unusual Suspect]

I quite liked it. But there are a few nitpicks. So, those first:

1. The Vulcan admiral made the point that Cornwall was back safe, but that Discovery still had all the data on cloaking devices ... so, that's dumb. If you're worried about intercepting transmissions, fine, but at least put a datachip on the darn shuttle.
2. When a cliffhanger is that telegraphed, is it even a cliffhanger? Seriously, "one more jump, then I'm retired"? While we bring home our only copy (which, see above) of vital data for the war effort? After talking about how we now have the option to explore beyond our own universe? Can we lay it on any thicker?
3. The bright blue glow on those sensors Burnham and Tyler had is a little much.
4. I wanted a little more effort on the Klingon's part to deal with Discovery jumping around like a jack-in-the-box.

Now, aside from that, I really enjoyed this episode. I liked the use of the spore drive to triangulate various readings. I continue to be happy to have Stamets and Culver. I like that the women and the gays are the badasses that made the victory possible. I like that Cornwall lived, and I like how she's treating Tyler emotional distress while still badly injured. I love the use of the communicator as translator, I thought it was really cool in Star Trek Beyond, hearing both languages at the same time. Burnham was awesome. Both her insistence on going on the away mission, and her duel with Kol were pretty good.

So, I'm taking this episode as confirmation that Ash is Voq, but I like that it's not as simple as Voq is just pretending to be Ash. There's more going on here, and that's interesting. Plus, the torture/rape memories, whether true or false, were truly harrowing, and I'm glad Discovery isn't shying away from those. That said, I think we needed more signs that Ash wasn't quite over his experiences, that part seemed fast-tracked.

[dwmarch]

Great episode overall but of course there are some strange aspects to it.

First and foremost, they detected the cloaked Klingon ship before they did all the spore-jumping... so that they would be able to detect the cloaked Klingon ship.

The sensor kits they used for the mission beep loudly and flash the entire time they're operating. I realize they probably didn't have time to customize the equipment so it looked like Klingon pottery but they still could have shut the audible alert off. Those beacons must be made by the same people who make the next of kin containers that also constantly beep until you open them.

These Klingons are going to lose for their lack of discipline if nothing else. They drag the Admiral off to a room full of dead Klingons but they never check to make sure she's dead. They leave L'Rell in there too. When they discover hostiles they send two guards who could have cleared that room in a second if they had thought to toss a grenade in there. Starfleet weapons fire doesn't trigger an intruder alert nor does the disintegration of crew members. The Ship of the Dead also doesn't seem bothered by two new crew members appearing out of nowhere. Also, forget the Starfleet ship that's kicking your ass, there's some tusslin' going on on the bridge!

Speaking of that room, there's a dead Klingon in there whose intestines are spilled all over the floor. Now it's established Star Trek canon that Klingons do not smell good under the best of circumstances so that dead one that's been sitting there should smell like a sackfull of Targ buttholes with all the good ones picked out. The human crew should not have been able to function in that room because of the smell.

The Starfleet brig on the Discovery isn't much better, there are no guards in it. Walk up to a prisoner and confess your secrets, no one minds.

As cute of a couple as Stamets and Culber are, is it appropriate for Culber to be Stamets' doctor? There is more than one doctor on the ship.

Burnham, I know your old Captain's insignia has a lot of sentimental value but you saw nasty-ass Kol using it as a toothpick. Wash it first!

I loved that Lorca put eye drops in so he could stare at the explosion. I also loved how he manipulated Stamets into the jumps by getting him all excited about the science.

[ottoDbusdriver]

15 minutes ago, Unusual Suspect said:

I quite liked it. But there are a few nitpicks. So, those first:

1. The Vulcan admiral made the point that Cornwall was back safe, but that Discovery still had all the data on cloaking devices ... so, that's dumb. If you're worried about intercepting transmissions, fine, but at least put a datachip on the darn shuttle.
2. When a cliffhanger is that telegraphed, is it even a cliffhanger? Seriously, "one more jump, then I'm retired"? While we bring home our only copy (which, see above) of vital data for the war effort? After talking about how we now have the option to explore beyond our own universe? Can we lay it on any thicker?
3. The bright blue glow on those sensors Burnham and Tyler had is a little much.
4. I wanted a little more effort on the Klingon's part to deal with Discovery jumping around like a jack-in-the-box.

How come the Klingons didn't .... oh, I don't know .... move their ship after they cloaked ?  The tip off that the Discovery knew where they were would have been the fact that it jumped 133 times all around the cloaked ship.  And yeah, it seemed like the Discovery could already track the Klingon ship pretty well while it was cloaked.

So does this mean that Kol is dead ?  Who will fill the power vacuum with this death ?

And yeah, those sensors weren't big enough, bright enough or loud enough. </sarcasm>

[Miles]

So how did the jumping around help cut down the time it took to gather sufficient sensor data? I think I might have missed something.

3 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

There was a lot of joint Starfleet and Klingon wreckage there. I wonder if they haven't jumped in time. It would be a hell of mind screw for the crew if they jumped into the middle of the Dominion war where the Klingons and Starfleet were allies. I have this vague idea of them being hailed by Martok and everyone being very confused.

I think they jumped to a different universe, since they talked about that being a possibility just before the 130 jumps.

3 hours ago, marinw said:

I knew that they were doomed when Stamets and Hugh made their Opera date. Why couldn’t they just warp to the Starbase like normal people? *sob*

It was pretty clear the second he said he'd do one last jump.

3 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

Also turning Voq into Ash complete with memories seems a little head of the technology at least as far as I can remember.

Yeah, it seems far fetched, but considering how long we haven't seen Voq and how much he was built up in the beginning, it's really the only explaination from a narrative standpoint.

1 hour ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

How come the Klingons didn't .... oh, I don't know .... move their ship after they cloaked ?  The tip off that the Discovery knew where they were would have been the fact that it jumped 133 times all around the cloaked ship.  And yeah, it seemed like the Discovery could already track the Klingon ship pretty well while it was cloaked.

The jumping around was also a dumb idea from the standpoint that had the klingons moved the ship, which the Discovery shouldn't have been able to detect, they could have jumped into the Klingon ship by accident, which would have destroyed both or lead to a "the fly"-type situation. Really this whole plan doesn't make much sense when you think about it too long.

Edit: I guess I could fanwank it with the probes on the ship giving them a location, but they needed the algorythm to find other ships. Ofcourse that doesn't work with the "we can see them now ending", but oh well...

Edited November 13, 2017 by Miles

[KimberStormer]

Stamets in the last 10 minutes of this episode:

 

It would be so much better if Ash wasn't Voq.  It would be like, you know, they take PTSD and rape of a man seriously, or something.  Still hoping this is all a big fakeout.  (At the beginning I was hoping it was going to be Stamets who turned out to be Voq, and the "I don't want Hugh to check me out" was just a smokescreen.  How Stamets could have been replaced by Voq I don't know, but if Ash being Voq seems almost as impossible.

Also, I wish Cornwell had stayed aboard.  For one thing it makes no goddamn sense at all for her to get to safety in a shuttlecraft quicker than the ship can, even leaving aside the spore drive.  There's just so much more they could do with the character in the "whoops we're trapped in a different universe" storyline.  SO MUCH!  And having a psychologist on board with all these damaged and/or wacky people would be so great!

Most of my nits have already been picked, but why belabor them; I will just say that in general, I too enjoyed this.

[thuganomics85]

Fighting!  Suspense!  Cliffhangers!  Explosions!  Drama!  A character's life hangs in the balance!  And, of course: Klingon boobs!  Yep, it is mid-season finale time!

Surprised that they actually took out Kol and the Ship of the Dead.  I figured he was going to be the main antagonist for at least the entire first season, but barring some time-traveling or other hijinks, he and the rest of his crew ain't coming back from this!  That being said, this is clearly not going to be the last we'll see of the Klingons.

I have know idea what to make of what happened with Tyler.  Part of me is down with the theory that he is really Voq, but if that ends up being the case, it seems like he no longer has his memories?  Either way, L'Rella clearly has done something to him and I'm curious to see where this goes.  Thought Shazad Latif did a great job to the point that I almost hope he is simply just Tyler, and they explore him having PTSD and being a torture and likely rape victim.

It was clear that Stamets was going to go too far after he agreed to "one last jump" and then him kissing Culber just sealed it.  I'm sure he'll pull through, but this isn't healthy.  And I totally think this wasn't an accident and Lorca deliberately did something.  Again, I don't think Lorca is flat-out evil, but he clearly has his own goals and doesn't matter who gets hurt to accomplish them.

Tilly's face when she accidentally blabbed Stamets having hallucinations to Culber was great.

Glad Michael was able to recover Philippa's badge at least.  Of course, since they've finally name-dropped parallel universes, I so hope this means another version of her and Michelle Yeoh will pop up eventually!

No new episodes till January.  Hopefully the wait won't feel too long.  The show is growing on me and I think it is finding its footing. 

[Miles]

1 hour ago, KimberStormer said:

It would be so much better if Ash wasn't Voq.  It would be like, you know, they take PTSD and rape of a man seriously, or something.

That should have been our first clue, that he's really Voq, because that is neeeeeever going to happen in a mainstream production. It's really sad, but that's just how it is.

1 hour ago, KimberStormer said:

Also, I wish Cornwell had stayed aboard.  For one thing it makes no goddamn sense at all for her to get to safety in a shuttlecraft quicker than the ship can, even leaving aside the spore drive.  There's just so much more they could do with the character in the "whoops we're trapped in a different universe" storyline.  SO MUCH!  And having a psychologist on board with all these damaged and/or wacky people would be so great!

Yep that would have been nice. It really makes no sense how much they use shuttles for long distance flights in this show anyway. Were shuttles even warp-capable in TOS? I don't think so.

And you are right, it would have made for good story opportunities. They could have fixed her up on the ship and she could have been an interesting opposing force to Lorca.

[2727]

If Cornwell was still on board Disco, couldn't she have taken command in alt-wherever they are? She is ill but still could have been a buttinski order giver. I prefer to watch Lorca figure things out in his own cowboy way.

There were two stars in their new reality, but if they were back to binary I'd think it would be recognizable to the computer.

[DrBriCa]

4 hours ago, dwmarch said:

First and foremost, they detected the cloaked Klingon ship before they did all the spore-jumping... so that they would be able to detect the cloaked Klingon ship.

I wondered about that as well. I just figured that they were still using the technology from the planet's giant transmitter to track the Klingon ship (as was originally intended before the planet was at risk from attack). 

[starri]

6 hours ago, dwmarch said:

First and foremost, they detected the cloaked Klingon ship before they did all the spore-jumping... so that they would be able to detect the cloaked Klingon ship.

They established in the previous episode that they were able to detect if a cloaked ship was in the area, but couldn't tell precisely WHERE it was in order to target it.  Ash and Michael's enormous, loud sensors and all of the jumps were to give them precise location data so they could figure out how to use their sensor readings to figure out the ship's actual position.

Ah, arguing the minutiae of fictional technology.  NOW it feels like a ST series.

Another point, the music in the episode was PHENOMENAL.

[Vandy10]

Yay, Cornwell's alive! 

Has anyone figured out what Stamets meant when he said, "It all began in a clearing in the forest.." or something like that? I didn't catch it verbatim. 

I'm still on the Ash-is-Voq train. Tyler was telling Burnham that he stayed alive by going along with L'Rell's rapetorture for 227 days, but we know she was only captain of that prison ship for a few weeks, so he's either purposely lying about all that time, or he has false memories. I also don't know how the writers (or writers of any contemporary sci-fi/drama TV) can win. Either they lay the groundwork for big reveals, which savvy fans then pick up on and spread around the Internet, or they plant no seeds and fans revolt at twists, claiming they "came out of nowhere" and make no sense. Ah, modern-day fandom. No matter the outcome, I thought Latif acted the hell out of his material, and it was a very powerful performance.

Also, Lorca shady as hell. 

Edited November 13, 2017 by Vandy10

[Helena Dax]

3 hours ago, Miles said:

That should have been our first clue, that he's really Voq, because that is neeeeeever going to happen in a mainstream production. It's really sad, but that's just how it is.

Yep that would have been nice. It really makes no sense how much they use shuttles for long distance flights in this show anyway. Were shuttles even warp-capable in TOS? I don't think so.

And you are right, it would have made for good story opportunities. They could have fixed her up on the ship and she could have been an interesting opposing force to Lorca.

Yes, they were. There are several episodes where they use shuttles to travel through space: The Menagerie, Obssesion... Of course, shuttles can't go as fast as a starship, but they have warp-capability; otherwise the trips depicted in those episodes would have taken years.

Great episode. I think Ash doesn't really remember what happened to him and he has turned his memories from the surgery into memories from some kind of torture. Pity. This is going to break Michael's heart. And how awesome is she? 

Poor Stamets. I don't think he's being garymitchelled, it's like distances don't mean anything to him anymore and he can see everything at once. 

I love that they seem to have travelled to an alternate universe; I wonder which one. 

[CanadaPhil]

10 hours ago, Vandy10 said:

....I also don't know how the writers (or writers of any contemporary sci-fi/drama TV) can win. Either they lay the groundwork for big reveals, which savvy fans then pick up on and spread around the Internet, or they plant no seeds and fans revolt at twists, claiming they "came out of nowhere" and make no sense. Ah, modern-day fandom....

Hahahahaha.... So true!

I was a bit disappointed with how the Showrunners even began to get cheeky with the Ash/Voq thing, but I think what they have now done here in the mid-season finale actually works!

The reveal has so far only been done for the us, the viewers. The crew is still in the dark as to there being something deeper going on with Ash and L'rel. As far as they are concerned, Ash is now just finally exibiting the real effects of PTSD from imprisonment and torture. 

And more importantly, we have been shown that as far as Ash himself is concerned, he REALLY believes he IS Ash Tyler and that he was tortured... but now he has these conflicting images in his mind that he cannot make any sense of.

I am going to give the writers credit for being able to still keep this issue intriguing and will just now trust that they are working towards something which will end up being very satisfying in the end. 

Edited November 13, 2017 by CanadaPhil

[The Kings Foot]

4 hours ago, 2727 said:

If Cornwell was still on board Disco, couldn't she have taken command in alt-wherever they are? She is ill but still could have been a buttinski order giver. I prefer to watch Lorca figure things out in his own cowboy way.

There were two stars in their new reality, but if they were back to binary I'd think it would be recognizable to the computer.

Depends on which part of the service she's in. If she's medical, then no she wouldn't take operational command from Lorca. 

[starri]

We’ve seen a woefully underprepared Troi take command in an emergency because she was the most senior officer. The only person we’ve seen who’s outranked Cornwell is Admiral Terral. 

Even if she didn’t assume direct command, she presumably could declare Lorca medically unfit, and then it would pass to Saru. 

[paigow]

16 minutes ago, The Kings Foot said:

Depends on which part of the service she's in. If she's medical, then no she wouldn't take operational command from Lorca. 

In TOS "The Deadly Years" Commodore Stocker - an administrator with no command experience- took control when Kirk & Spock were declared medically unfit. He intentionally violated the Neutral Zone [to save Kirk] and almost got Enterprise destroyed in combat.

[CanadaPhil]

11 hours ago, starri said:

Given Lorca's creepy "Time to go home" comment before they jumped, and the fact that he overrode the pre-set coordinates as well, I think they're exactly where he wanted them to be.

....

Yeah, I played back and paused that moment. The console screen clearly shows that he is manually overriding the pre-set coordinates.  

But, Lorca does seem genuinely confused following the jump.

I am thinking that he made a best guess estimate based on his own deduction after trying to interpret the data he had been collecting and analysing over time (He obviously could not enlist the aid of Saru and Burnham here)

It looks like it didn't go exactly as he had hoped. 

There are endless possibilities.

:)

[The Kings Foot]

2 hours ago, paigow said:

In TOS "The Deadly Years" Commodore Stocker - an administrator with no command experience- took control when Kirk & Spock were declared medically unfit. He intentionally violated the Neutral Zone [to save Kirk] and almost got Enterprise destroyed in combat.

Not a contradiction. As long as he was officially designated as  a line officer then regardless of experience he could take command. 

 

And the fact he was in command of a Starbase strongly suggests he was a line officer. 

[paigow]

1 hour ago, The Kings Foot said:

Not a contradiction. As long as he was officially designated as  a line officer then regardless of experience he could take command. 

 

And the fact he was in command of a Starbase strongly suggests he was a line officer. 

Source: Memory Alpha

Commodore Stocker was a 23rd century Starfleet flag officer, who as of 2267 had served his entire career behind a desk.

In 2267, Stocker was assigned as the commanding officer of Federation Starbase 10, to which he was soon transported aboard the USS Enterprise.

Just because regulations allow it, does not make it smart... 

[CanadaPhil]

I have been meaning to bring this up for a few eps. now but I never got around to it...

That Vulcan Federation Admiral... Terral?? Something just seems "off" with this guy, as if he works against what would seem are Federation interests?

We never did get answers as to who may have betrayed Lorca's shuttle run to the Klingons... or who L'Rel's supposed operatives already within the Federation are?

I don't know. Something just doesn't seem right with him. Even in yesterday's finale, his claim of recalling Lorca so that he can be presented with (what I think is) the Federation's highest honor seems like a ploy of some kind.

Edited November 13, 2017 by CanadaPhil

[Miles]

5 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

Yes, they were. There are several episodes where they use shuttles to travel through space: The Menagerie, Obssesion... Of course, shuttles can't go as fast as a starship, but they have warp-capability; otherwise the trips depicted in those episodes would have taken years.

Yes, you are right. But memory alpha calls it "limited warp capabilities". http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Class_F_shuttlecraft

The german version says it could travel "short distances" with warp. http://de.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/F-Klasse

 

So it still couldn't bring the admiral back to federation space. I guess it's possible that Discovery has better shuttles, but it seems unlikely, since TOS is later in the timeline and the federation flagship.

Can we just agree that a shuttle bringing back the admiral, while the Discovery was going to head that direction anyway, with a far faster warp drive and it's spore drive, was duuuuuuuuuuumb?

[mrspidey]

16 hours ago, CanadaPhil said:

I am happy the Admiral made it... well, at least back in the "Prime" Universe???

Which it totally isn't.  The deviations from canon are far too numerous and big.

I'm calling it. Either Discovery is somehow gonna end up in the Prime Universe or we get a Star Trek version of Sliders. I'd be down with both options.

[KimberStormer]

10 hours ago, 2727 said:

If Cornwell was still on board Disco, couldn't she have taken command in alt-wherever they are? She is ill but still could have been a buttinski order giver. I prefer to watch Lorca figure things out in his own cowboy way.

This is exactly the kind of storyline I am talking about when I say there's a lot of potential having her around.  They're in some other world (I'm assuming).  Their ranks really don't mean anything in a different reality, except in their minds.  Will Lorca care if she tries to pull rank?  Who would the crew listen to?  On the other hand Cornwell knows Lorca is the man you need in charge during a crisis, and that the last thing they need when everyone's lives are in danger is a confused command structure.  They might argue, they might try to take over, they might work together... and of course there's all the personal stuff, and who better to discover if Lorca is really Mirror Lorca than his ex-girlfriend/FWB/whatever they are?  IDK I just see thousands of story possibilities that were just tossed aside in a throwaway line, without even giving the two of them a scene?  A single scene? 

6 hours ago, Vandy10 said:

 No matter the outcome, I thought Latif acted the hell out of his material, and it was a very powerful performance.

That is for sure!  Couldn't agree more.

[mrspidey]

On a more shallow note: Who would've thought that the first shown boobs in the history of Trek would be Klingon?

 

No, Uhura doesn't count. 

[Irishmaple]

That was a really strong episode. Ash Tyler’s PTSD flashbacks were very well done, so harrowing I felt anxious for him. I was concerned that the show would bypass Ash’s experiences as a POW but they didn’t. Regardless of whether or not he is Ash Tyler, the character has very traumatic memories and was completely incapacitated by them. Cornwell did a very professional job of guiding him back to reality despite her own pain and worry. Lorca’s going to have his hands full when she catches back up to him.

L’Relle may have outsmarted herself. If she did plant Ash on Discovery, her plan may not go as smoothly as she thought. Ash has formed a genuine bond with Burnham, has a position of status among the crew, and gets along well with Lorca. The non-Klingons have completely accepted him. The only one who can hurt him is L’Relle herself. 

I felt bad for Hugh and Tilley as they supported Stamets through the jumps. He and Lorca made an unlikely pair of allies, given the early episodes, but I liked seeing them on the same page. Lorca’s developing an interesting connection with all of his bridge crew. Ash and Michael argued with him, the pilot offered input, Hugh yelled at him, and he listened to all of them. The characters are all coming together nicely.

[tpel]

14 minutes ago, CanadaPhil said:

That Vulcan Fedaration Admiral... Terral?? Something just seems "off" with this guy, as if he works against what would seem are Federation interests?

We never did get answers as to who may have betrayed Lorca's shuttle run to the Klingons... or who L'Rel's supposed operatives already within the Federation are?

I don't know. Something just doesn't seem right with him. Even in yesterday's finale, his claim of recalling Lorca so that he can be presented with (what I think is) the Federation's highest honor seems like a ploy of some kind.

Terral was totally trying to play Lorca with the "come to the starbase and we'll give you a medal" ploy. And Lorca saw right through him. Presumably Terral chatted with Cornwell and learned her opinion about Lorca's mental state, and even if he didn't, Terral now knows first hand that Lorca is a wild card. Terral can calculate the odds of Lorca obeying an order to go to the starbase, and they're not pretty. So he tried to trick him with a prospective honor. Lorca has many problems, but stupidity isn't one of them.