S11.E07: I Love Candy!

[SMama]

The begging is rather normal with post institutionalized children (foster care applies). As much as it hurt at the time we had to put a stop to it. But it was after we felt on more solid ground with the bonding process. Like your parents, once is asking, twice she doesn't even bother to ask anymore, she knows she crossed the line. Also toy throwing results in the toy taking a long vacation. She understood that very quickly. This may come across as sexist, but Jen works long hours, and that mommy guilt is all too real (tried it twice). As the SAHM I do more of the enforcing, so should Bill as the SAHF. Not because of the SAH status, but because we interact more with our children.

Edited November 2, 2017 by SMama

[bichonblitz]

11 hours ago, Foghorn Leghorn said:

I also notice Jen’s makeup!  Wow!

Is that a good wow or a bad wow? lol. I don't remember her lips being so big and her huge super white teeth, either. She's adorable, though. 

[Chalby]

20 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I was dying laughing though when Zoe declared her room a girl's only zone. She's so adorably prissy.

Will not listening at the aquarium, big shocker, lol. He did much better with the speech therapist. 

I tell you, the last couple of shows I've watched, I can't help but smile because these kids are so darn cute. I also feel that they are going to turn out okay. I remember initially being worried that William would be a bossy, selfish little boy, and he is anything but that. Bill and Jen have done all right considering they entered the parent game at a later date.

11 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

Is that a good wow or a bad wow? lol. I don't remember her lips being so big and her huge super white teeth, either. She's adorable, though. 

She's always had those great lips (I am jealous)!

[Sasha888]

20 minutes ago, SMama said:

Also toy throwing results in the toy taking a long vacation.

For some reason, the phrase "the toy taking a long vacation" really tickled my funny bone! :-) Made me picture a toy, at a spa, saying "Thank God, now I can finally get some rest!" Very descriptive! Thanks for the laugh, I needed it!

[Chalby]

10 hours ago, Tikichick said:

I thought it was an enjoyable episode and am not bothered by the things that seem to be off for other people.  The insight we got into the visit with Jen's friends and her children was appropriate.  IMO we saw "conversation" that was presented for the cameras. 

I found it very enjoyable as well. I have a friend whom I consider my bestie, although it's been 17 years since we've connected. I would have no problem with her and her family coming to stay with me for a weekend. Even on the phone, it's like we never were apart.

[viewer]

That was something very normal and cute for Zoey to do.   I really don't think she is very fat behind.   I do think she is a handful for her parents. 

That was something very normal and cute for Zoey to do.   I really don't think she is very  far behind.   I do think she is a handful for her parents. 

Edited November 2, 2017 by viewer
double comment delete first

[viewer]

Gee, I need to learn how to delete!    I just wanted to correct fat to far!   

[Kohola3]

I got a chuckle out of Zoey not wanting to feed the rays.  Not only did she refuse to do it she put forth quite an elaborate explanation as to why she chose not to.  I think she's a hoot.  I can see her arguing a case in court.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

40 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

Is that a good wow or a bad wow? lol. I don't remember her lips being so big and her huge super white teeth, either. She's adorable, though. 

It is just so professionally done and I watched their first couple of seasons when the show was introduced without kids of course and she wore very little makeup so it is like a before and after for me.  Her eye makeup and her lipstick do emphasize certain aspects of her face.  She is Hollywood now!  LOL.  

[AmandaUnbidden]

7 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

I got a chuckle out of Zoey not wanting to feed the rays.  Not only did she refuse to do it she put forth quite an elaborate explanation as to why she chose not to.  I think she's a hoot.  I can see her arguing a case in court.

I know! That whole head tilt to the side with the arms crossed. I could see her doing very well in drama class too. lol

I think it would be easier to understand Will's behavior if you don't try comparing him to an average child his age. Will is not at the same level developmentally so Will will not act the same. You can't ask a special needs child to behave or perform at the same level as their "normal" peers. It's not fair, and the child will not be able to do it.

It may be jarring to see a child acting so much younger than his age but it is not his fault or his parents in this instance. 

[Bridget]

8 hours ago, Sasha888 said:

 

What might simplify your mornings and get you out the door on time would be to discipline a little, and MAKE your kids listen! No counting to three where there's no consequence, no begging them with please please please, and you don't have to "thank" a child for simply doing what they should've been doing in the first place, with no big hassle. Maybe save the "thank you" thing for times when they respond to a simple request the first time.

I realize breakfast time when trying to get them out the door for school may not be the ideal time to START discipline, but if you did it in other situations (and followed through with consequences), things would be clicking along a lot better by now.

JMO but I think there's a lot of "respect" missing in that household.

I noticed that the kids roam around in the mornings and aren't getting ready when they should be putting on socks/shoes/maybe helping to set the table. Will was preoccupied with something in the playroom instead of putting his shoes on and no one appeared to lay the smack down (not literally) on him or remind him of HIS obligations: whatever he needs to do to be ready for school. Kids his age should have their own independent routines in the AM such as getting dressed from head to toe and be ready when breakfast is ready.

Bill and Jen are also missing a basic staple of getting kids on task and on target: a freakin' timer! As a teacher, I have five of them in one classroom. It not only keeps ME on track and committed to staying on topic/meeting deadlines, but it's one of THE best teaching tools an adult should use for time sensitive things like Time Out (and perhaps Jen will learn to STOP TALKING to the kids when they're in Time Out, which ruins the whole point of being in Time Out) as Supernanny Jo Frost herself suggests!

Kids need to have time broken down for them because they DO NOT understand how time operates (even with my beloved knuckleheads in my high school classroom). If Bill and Jen set a microwave timer (or another timer) and made those kids stick to deadlines, everyone would start to understand the importance of sticking to school day AM schedules. For example: "This timer is set for 5 minutes. You have that much time to put your shoes on and be seated at the table or there isn't time for pancakes. Once you hear that timer go off, and you're not at the table, there will be only time for __________ (insert portable breakfast meal here)."

And most importantly, as many of you have stated, they need to be consistent. Once an adult is consistent with the important things over and over again, it becomes automatic and the kids expect/wait for it. Kids need and crave structure as I'm sure many of you with your own children can agree. 

I've seen the Bates family actually practice how to act in public BEFORE they go out in public. Granted they have more children than Bill and Jen, but their kids (even when they're all together) are probably much better behaved than the two Klein kids. 

Edited November 2, 2017 by Bridget
grammar!

[alegtostandon]

I'm sure the college friend watches the show with her kids & has probably told them that she was once friends with Jen. In my mind, I imagined the friends kids almost feeling as if they "knew" Will & Zoey from watching them on television. 

I only know what I see televised, which I am sure is very scripted & edited. I can't help but wonder if they would be so accommodating to the kids if they were their natural kids.  I kind of get the feeling that they're afraid to get "mad" at the kids, either because of negative feedback from viewers or afraid the kids won't love them.

[floridamom]

Will needs to learn not to RUN ahead everywhere he's going. The parents need to teach him HOW TO WALK.  Take hold of the boy's hand. That will slow down his pace. I can't stand his screaming...I sound like an old crank, but it's true, sorry, I must confess. I could never stand children screaming for no reason or for a 'little excitement thing".

JUMPING ON THE BEDS????Never in my house.

On school morinings, there WAS NO toys, TV or playing around at all. It started when my boys were in pre-school, age 4. They knew they had a 'school focus'. I cooked a different breakfast for them each morning, ONE I DECIDED that I knew they both liked and that was their meal. They were NEVER late for school, PreK-12...EVER. It's called organization and focus. No fooling around. I woke them up in plenty of time for them to be ready without rushing or stress. It works...I was an at home mother at that time, so no excuse for the kids to be wandering around doing other things without parental supervision on a school morning. I like the Klein parents, but they need to focus THEMSELVES. Bill doesn't help the situation.

They also need to quit taking their children to 'age inappropriate' places and events. They simply are just too young for some of the things I have seen on this show.

[Bridget]

14 minutes ago, floridamom said:

Will needs to learn not to RUN ahead everywhere he's going. The parents need to teach him HOW TO WALK.  Take hold of the boy's hand. That will slow down his pace. I can't stand his screaming...I sound like an old crank, but it's true, sorry, I must confess. I could never stand children screaming for no reason or for a 'little excitement thing".

JUMPING ON THE BEDS????Never in my house.

On school morinings, there WAS NO toys, TV or playing around at all. It started when my boys were in pre-school, age 4. They knew they had a 'school focus'. I cooked a different breakfast for them each morning, ONE I DECIDED that I knew they both liked and that was their meal. They were NEVER late for school, PreK-12...EVER. It's called organization and focus. No fooling around. I woke them up in plenty of time for them to be ready without rushing or stress. It works...I was an at home mother at that time, so no excuse for the kids to be wandering around doing other things without parental supervision on a school morning. I like the Klein parents, but they need to focus THEMSELVES. Bill doesn't help the situation.

They also need to quit taking their children to 'age inappropriate' places and events. They simply are just too young for some of the things I have seen on this show.

Amen to all of this - especially the Will-needs-to-stop-running everywhere & kids who screech/yell for no reason! I swear I saw Will dart out into traffic at the airport when they were on their way to Scotland. A sky cap was the one who saw Will run INTO traffic during curbside drop off and had to grab him because his BFF Bill was not even aware of the kids or their surroundings, neither was Jen. They seem so clueless at times about where their kids are. I hope someone packed a backpack/leash device that Nicole on 90 Day Fiance brought for her toddler!

Will and Zoey should have been placed into a stroller in Scotland & England...perhaps the castle would not have been destroyed!

Is there a reason the Klein kids (or some kids) do not sit in strollers when out in public? My intent is Safety First & if kids who act like Will need to be "contained"  for safety, then stick them in one - or use the backpack leash! Will sat in a stroller when he was with his parents in China, so we know Bill can push him.

 I know strollers are a pain to get in/out of car, but if the kid refuses to stand with a parent, a collapsible umbrella stroller should be easy enough to use as a reminder of consequences (IF there was any follow through) for not walking. I also think a lot of their crazy behavior "in public" behavior stems from the kids needing naps and/or all of the additional energy it takes for them to walk as a result of having shorter strides. I know kids can unbuckle anything, but that does not mean Will & Zoey should not be given the option of using it as a tool.

Do any parents here know why Jen and Bill have not gotten to the "we are leaving now & you will have a Time Out in the car because of the choice you made" point yet?

Caught the first few minutes of the DC Trip and could NOT believe it when Jen alluded to how the kids will be able to look back one day and "remember this trip" blah blah blah. I was thinking that they can always watch the video, but the kids won't remember going to George W's home specifically.

i think it's fair to say most folks are in agreement that the kids are developmentally delayed and will most likely be "eligible for services" at school. That's teacher speak for Special Ed. As a teacher who also has SpEd credentials, 99.9% of the kiddos who end up having resource support in school (special ed services) all have memory issues. These kids will not remember this trip and it blows my mind that these two educated and smart adults don't comprehend that. I do wonder if TLC did not foot the bill, would Jen feel the same (i.e. "creating more memories for the kids")? 

[floridamom]

Bridget: Great post. I agree with you.

I also noticed during the breakfast/school morning fiasco that Jen had absolutely NO EYE contact with Zoey when she was ASKING her to sit at the table to eat. There was a lot of other noise and distraction going on and Jen was looking down at the counter doing something when speaking to Zoey. I thought to myself that Zoey most likely didn't even notice that her mother was speaking to her. Jen and Bill need to STOP WHAT THEY'RE DOING and exude some eye to eye contact with their children when giving a 'command'. Then those children will know that they are being spoken to. Distance isn't a good thing when trying to deal with those two children. Zoey will develop quite a temper if they don't reel her in NOW, and Will will not be obliged to listen to his parents at all when he's older. They shrug their parents off IMO. It will only get worse.

Remember, please that I like Bill and Jen as people very much, but as a mother myself, I see a lot of fear in them when it comes to losing 'their childrens' friendship'...but they aren't their childrens' friend..they are their parents...big difference. Will and Zoey don't respect them.

[Kohola3]

Quote

Is there a reason the Klein kids (or some kids) do not sit in strollers when out in public?

Because they are not infants?  Would you suggest putting a normal-sized developmentally-delayed 6 year old in a stroller?  People were criticizing Bill's mom for carrying Zoey around like an infant and now you want them in a stroller?  Good lord.

[SunnyBeBe]

15 hours ago, Sasha888 said:

Breakfast - "Zoey, come sit down." (nothing happens) "Alright, I'm going to count to three" (counts to one, stops counting) "Zoey, can you please sit down?" (nothing happens) "Zoey, you MUST sit down" (Zoey lays on the floor)

When she finally sits down, Jen says "Thank you". In between all of this, we get the TH of Bill saying they're not 19 yr olds in the Army, how the kids don't appreciate the fact that it might make them late for school, etc. In other words, excuses for their behavior.

What might simplify your mornings and get you out the door on time would be to discipline a little, and MAKE your kids listen! No counting to three where there's no consequence, no begging them with please please please, and you don't have to "thank" a child for simply doing what they should've been doing in the first place, with no big hassle. Maybe save the "thank you" thing for times when they respond to a simple request the first time.

I realize breakfast time when trying to get them out the door for school may not be the ideal time to START discipline, but if you did it in other situations (and followed through with consequences), things would be clicking along a lot better by now.

And I agree with several of you who said getting cranky over the pancake was a little OTT. If I made any kind of "yuck, I don't want this" face at the table, I got a talking to immediately from my Dad...which usually ended with "Your mother worked hard to put this meal on the table, and YOU will show a little respect!" 

JMO but I think there's a lot of "respect" missing in that household.

I've stopped watching, due to how annoying I find it to see the parents avoiding their duties, but, come here to be nosy and see what happens.  lol I did land on the channel at the part where Bill was making excuses for his children's inability to behave.  lol  Oh boy. While the Johnston parents are not prefect, I wish Jen and Bill would watch a couple of their episodes. (Seven Little Johnstons) At least they have the ability to say something to their kids and meant it. 

[AZChristian]

2 hours ago, Bridget said:

Will and Zoey should have been placed into a stroller in Scotland & England...perhaps the castle would not have been destroyed!

1.  Many of the historical sites we visited in Scotland and England did not allow strollers. 

2.  Will and Zoe really are too old for strollers.  How can they learn to act in an age-appropriate manner if they are treated like babies?

In an ideal world, parents should monitor their children's behavior.  To be honest, in our four trips to the UK, we never saw children (British or visitors) behaving the way the Klein kids do.  I mentioned in another thread about the double-decker bus tour of London that the family did.  Will and Zoe were both sitting down on seats on the bus.  Not standing on the seats.  Not sitting on an adult's lap.  That's because the rules on that bus tour (I've been on it) are that every passenger over the age of two must SIT in their OWN SEAT.  No standing, no sitting on laps.  And that's what the kids did because (I suspect) someone in authority told them that if they didn't sit in their own seat, they could not stay on the tour.  It was the only time on the UK trip that the kids were sitting quietly and behaving in a way that everyone else was behaving.  So I suspect the "someone in authority" was not Bill, Jen, or the grandparents.

Bottom line is, if Bill and Jen haven't learned how to be effective parents at this point, THEY need training.  Many of the earlier points you made - attentiveness to where your kids are, eye contact, etc. - are great points.  The onus is on the adults to learn how to keep their children safe, and to teach the kids acceptable and appropriate behavior for wherever they are.  If their parents don't rein the kids in, the kids will see no reason to monitor their own behavior.

Edited November 2, 2017 by AZChristian

[Kid]

52 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

Would you suggest putting a normal-sized developmentally-delayed 6 year old in a stroller?  People were criticizing Bill's mom for carrying Zoey around like an infant and now you want them in a stroller?  Good lord.

The question I constantly have is why they just do not hold Will’s hand?????  The kid has no impulse control in public and he runs toward traffic, he runs out of their site line, he just about destroys historical artifacts, and he does not obey.  In addition to everything else, there are crazy people out there that grab kids. And this is a famous kid. I would make sure he was never out of my line of sight. Holding his hand when they’re in public should solve that problem. Yet they never do it. He could’ve fallen into that tank of stingrays. I know he knows how to swim but he could’ve gotten into trouble because he could panic under those unique circumstances.  Also, I think the filming makes his impulse control worse because he is “mugging” for the cameras.  He’s trying to be a comedian like his dad.

And the constant counting to three, with no consequences at the end of it, is not helping matters.  Both of those kids need to learn to obey the first time. They are as cute as can be but their behavior is not. Will should’ve been told that if he keeps carrying on about the cotton candy, he would get none. And then follow through on the consequence if he chooses to carry on.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Kid

[Absolom]

2 hours ago, Bridget said:

"creating more memories for the kids"

I think that's a TLC line given to Jen.  Kate Gosselin used to say it all the time.  It seems to make the fans feel that cancelling the show would then "deprive" the children.  It's also cover for we're dragging these children around just to make episodes of a TV show.  

[Kohola3]

2 minutes ago, Kid said:

He could’ve fallen into that tank of stingrays.

Well, since there were about 50 people in close proximity including the guide and the side of the tank was over his head, I do think that would have been highly unlikely.  I do think he does things for a laugh.  He's definitely an exuberant kid.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

I have seen Will holding Jen’s hand in some of the episodes and have noticed Jen is paired more with Will this season than Zoey.  She sits beside Will on the bus, in the restaurants etc.  I think that is her way of controlling the problem of Bill and Will together acting out.

I think it would be very hard on the full sized adults to be in a bent over position and walk for any distance while holding their hands so that is probably why they get picked up and carried a lot more.  And if Will decides to bolt while Jen is holding his hand there is little she can do about it as she is simply not strong enough.  I am not sure if Bill could do any better with his back and being caught off guard by Will who has no impulse control.  

Discipline is a joke in the Klein household.

Pet Peeve: Jen always wanted a William in the family, she at one time wanted Bill to call himself William and he refused.  That was covered way back when the show first started.  So once she got Will she wanted him to be William....it wasn’t sticking however this season I notice even the grandparents are often calling him William instead of Will. He is Will to me and always will be!!  LOL

[Ina123]

50 minutes ago, Absolom said:

I think that's a TLC line given to Jen.  Kate Gosselin used to say it all the time.  It seems to make the fans feel that cancelling the show would then "deprive" the children.  It's also cover for we're dragging these children around just to make episodes of a TV show.  

I say it all the time when we are out somewhere. Just the other day I was trying to jostle my sister into us taking her grandchildren to a museum. I actually said, "C'mon. We'll make a memory".

[Chalby]

59 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

 (Seven Little Johnstons) At least they have the ability to say something to their kids and meant it. 

The Johnstons are my hands-down favourites. Love that family.

[camom]

I would LOVE to see Jo Frost visit the Kleins.  I have a feeling that Bill would be quite resistant to her suggestions.

[AZChristian]

4 minutes ago, camom said:

I would LOVE to see Jo Frost visit the Kleins.  I have a feeling that Bill would be quite resistant to her suggestions.

Because Jo would sit Bill and Jen down and point out the problems in THEIR behavior with the kids.

[Bridget]

4 hours ago, AZChristian said:

1.  Many of the historical sites we visited in Scotland and England did not allow strollers. 

2.  Will and Zoe really are too old for strollers.  How can they learn to act in an age-appropriate manner if they are treated like babies?

In an ideal world, parents should monitor their children's behavior.  To be honest, in our four trips to the UK, we never saw children (British or visitors) behaving the way the Klein kids do.  I mentioned in another thread about the double-decker bus tour of London that the family did.  Will and Zoe were both sitting down on seats on the bus.  Not standing on the seats.  Not sitting on an adult's lap.  That's because the rules on that bus tour (I've been on it) are that every passenger over the age of two must SIT in their OWN SEAT.  No standing, no sitting on laps.  And that's what the kids did because (I suspect) someone in authority told them that if they didn't sit in their own seat, they could not stay on the tour.  It was the only time on the UK trip that the kids were sitting quietly and behaving in a way that everyone else was behaving.  So I suspect the "someone in authority" was not Bill, Jen, or the grandparents.

Bottom line is, if Bill and Jen haven't learned how to be effective parents at this point, THEY need training.  Many of the earlier points you made - attentiveness to where your kids are, eye contact, etc. - are great points.  The onus is on the adults to learn how to keep their children safe, and to teach the kids acceptable and appropriate behavior for wherever they are.  If their parents don't rein the kids in, the kids will see no reason to monitor their own behavior.

I totally agree with you 1000%. The roads aren't ideal for strollers, it was just part of the fantasy world I live in where people who are on expensive holidays don't have to be disturbed by random screeching...although perhaps there are now plenty more non-English speakers who are able to count to three that we don't even know about! (it's a joke before anyone thinks I'm xenophobic!) I am still livid at their behavior in the castle in Scotland AND that Bill called a kilt "a skirt." (MacDonald of Clan Ranald in the house!)

In all seriousness, I have used many of Supernanny's techniques to wrangle many of my students at the secondary level. How amazing would it be for Jo Frost to show up and tell Bill and Jen how to discipline?!?! Again, this is in my fantasy world - I know it would never happen, which is too bad.)

[abbey]

I used to love this show and never wanted to miss it.  Now not so much.  The lack of discipline makes me crazy.  I don't expect the kids to behave perfectly.  However I do expect the parents to hold them up to some standards of behavior.  The kids are old enough to listen to their parents and obey them, at least some of the time.  Will is a distraction to the rest of the kids in his karate class and it isn't fair to them or to their parents who paid for their participation in the class.  Zoe giving looks to her parents is not acceptable.  I don't want (or need to know) about any developmental delays they may be suffering from but I would like to see attempts made to instill good behavior in them.  Heaven forbid Jen or Bill was ever anywhere alone with them and the kids decided to take off on a run to see something.  For the kids' safety alone their behavior needs to be improved.

[PradaKitty]

Okay folks,

Let's remember that these episodes were filmed one year ago.  We don't know how much the kids have matured.  It might be a whole new ball game now.

[BW Manilowe]

6 hours ago, Bridget said:

Amen to all of this - especially the Will-needs-to-stop-running everywhere & kids who screech/yell for no reason! I swear I saw Will dart out into traffic at the airport when they were on their way to Scotland. A sky cap was the one who saw Will run INTO traffic during curbside drop off and had to grab him because his BFF Bill was not even aware of the kids or their surroundings, neither was Jen. They seem so clueless at times about where their kids are. I hope someone packed a backpack/leash device that Nicole on 90 Day Fiance brought for her toddler!

Will and Zoey should have been placed into a stroller in Scotland & England...perhaps the castle would not have been destroyed!

Is there a reason the Klein kids (or some kids) do not sit in strollers when out in public? My intent is Safety First & if kids who act like Will need to be "contained"  for safety, then stick them in one - or use the backpack leash! Will sat in a stroller when he was with his parents in China, so we know Bill can push him.

 I know strollers are a pain to get in/out of car, but if the kid refuses to stand with a parent, a collapsible umbrella stroller should be easy enough to use as a reminder of consequences (IF there was any follow through) for not walking. I also think a lot of their crazy behavior "in public" behavior stems from the kids needing naps and/or all of the additional energy it takes for them to walk as a result of having shorter strides. I know kids can unbuckle anything, but that does not mean Will & Zoey should not be given the option of using it as a tool.

Do any parents here know why Jen and Bill have not gotten to the "we are leaving now & you will have a Time Out in the car because of the choice you made" point yet?

Caught the first few minutes of the DC Trip and could NOT believe it when Jen alluded to how the kids will be able to look back one day and "remember this trip" blah blah blah. I was thinking that they can always watch the video, but the kids won't remember going to George W's home specifically.

i think it's fair to say most folks are in agreement that the kids are developmentally delayed and will most likely be "eligible for services" at school. That's teacher speak for Special Ed. As a teacher who also has SpEd credentials, 99.9% of the kiddos who end up having resource support in school (special ed services) all have memory issues. These kids will not remember this trip and it blows my mind that these two educated and smart adults don't comprehend that. I do wonder if TLC did not foot the bill, would Jen feel the same (i.e. "creating more memories for the kids")? 

As another poster said, they probably don't use strollers because they may have physically grown out of them. I mean, even state laws & car manufacturers say that at least most car seats have a certain age &/or weight/size limit after which the product is no longer recommended for use by your child(ren). I would assume the same goes for strollers. And, again, there's the whole thing about someone with at least a chronological age of 6 still being in a stroller whether his/her emotional &/or physical ages may not be at the same 6-year-old level.

As for the backpack leash, while that may be a better ("less babyish") option than the stroller, in regards to the kids' chronological age(s), it may come to feel demeaning to the kid(s); especially if they run into school or other friends while wearing the leash & their peers make fun of them because they're being, basically, walked around by the neck like they were a dog. Or the other parents may gossip about Jen &/or Bill walking their kid(s) around on leashes while pretty much none of the other parents do it.

Yes, Will sat in a stroller when he was with Bill & Jen in China & we know Bill could push him in it then. And Will & Zoey sat in a "double stroller" while Bill pushed them in India between when they got Zoey at the orphanage & when they, & Kate the Nanny, flew home from India (after Jen flew home early due to illness & got her cancer diagnosis). The thing about all of that is, Will was 3 at the time of his "Gotcha" Day in China with Jen & Bill, & Zoey was 2 at the time of her "Gotcha" Day in India. And Bill had to have fairly necessary back surgery, to fuse some herniated discs, soon after Zoey arrived home or he'd risk paralysis & the inability to walk &/or to help care for the kids.

On the kids' "Gotcha" days (which were 3-4 years ago now, or more; Will was 3 & Zoey was 2, & 1 of the trips to get them was over Jen's Birthday while the other was over Bill's), each of them, separately & together, probably didn't weigh what they do now, given how much time has passed since they came into Bill & Jen's lives. Also with Bill's now fused discs, he may not be as able to push whatever the added weight is without maybe risking more, possibly worse, back trouble.

Basically, I'm saying whatever Bill was physically capable of, regarding assisting with the kids' mobility, when they got the kids--thanks to the passing of time, his increased age, his back surgery, & the kids growing up, getting at least a little taller & definitely gaining more weight--Bill may not be as physically capable of doing stuff like pushing the kids in strollers, etc., anymore.

Which may be another reason why some of the grandparents &/or Kate (when she was around--she was supposed to have come back to work for the family after her honeymoon, but who knows when that was in relation to when the family moved to Tampa/St. Pete) are invited to go along on (at least some) trips Bill & Jen take with the kids; the grandparents maybe are still able to push the kids in a mobility aid, if used; if not, they can at least be "grandchildren wranglers"--run off after them if they get away from the family & haul them back to the group before they get too separated (like Nainai Judy, I think it was, said she'd tackled Zoey somewhere & brought her back to the group after she got away somewhere. I wanna say it was on the trip we just saw where Jen, Bill, their kids, & Jen's side of the family went to Charlotte, NC, to meet Jen's new baby nephew & attend his baptism, where Bill & Jen were named Godparents & then they celebrated the birthday of 1 of Jen's brothers (who may or may not have been the same person as the father of the baby).

[BitterApple]

BW Manilowe, I agree with every word of your post, but in a way that makes me feel bad for the grandparents. They're not spring chickens themselves and running after unruly children all day has to be exhausting. I guess the trade-off is they're getting appearance fees and free trips, but I wonder how long that will last before they've had enough and can't do it anymore. 

I'll give a pass on a lot of things, but Will sprinting off whenever something shiny catches his attention needs to stop, delays or no delays. That sort of thing could get him or one of his parents killed. 

Edited November 2, 2017 by BitterApple

[calpurnia99]

I know Jen says to Zoey: Can you please sit down?  Tell her, sit the fuck down!  Counting- then stopping? Terrible! I'm going to count to 3? Then she doesn't?. They treat them like toddlers because they look like toddlers so now they act like toddlers. Will is 6 they treat him like he is 3. Zoey is so tiny, she is the size of  a 1 year old. They treat her like a 2-3 year old as well.  They need to raise their voices in a firm way, and Tell them what to do and not put in a request. They should be treating them at their age level and not as toddlers. It's sad. They should know better being Little People themselves.

As for all the toys, Jen has to have every dumb stupid specialty item that comes out. The Halloween decorations I am sure were all her idea. She wastes so much money on unnecessary crap. I noticed this she got them all aprons and hats saying "baking cookies" for baking cookies. She buys things and they use them once. She got this fancy (expensive) chart to track their height. We just used a pencil on the wall in the laundry room- more fun! The kids are constantly getting presents. Zoey did not give a crap about the stuffed elephant. 

I know it's blasphemy to say I wish Zoey had longer hair. God she was so pretty in that long wig! 

As for Halloween, where I grew up in NY, the Long Island area, all the elementary school kids and little kids went trick or treating at 3 oclock after school. And they still do there.  The big kids came at night. I moved to Georgia and everyone waits until it gets dark before they go. I find it to be ridiculous! Like this year because it was not daylight savings over yet, they didn't come around until 7:15PM.  I never understood what was wrong with going around in the day light. It is easier on me I guess I only have to answer the door for a shorter period.  But these little kids should be allowed to go around in the day light. I think it is a weird tradition and it is different in different parts of the country. 

[Bridget]

23 minutes ago, BW Manilowe said:

As another poster said, they probably don't use strollers because they may have physically grown out of them. I mean, even state laws & car manufacturers say that at least most car seats have a certain age &/or weight/size limit after which the product is no longer recommended for use by your child(ren). I would assume the same goes for strollers. And, again, there's the whole thing about someone with at least a chronological age of 6 still being in a stroller whether his/her emotional &/or physical ages may not be at the same 6-year-old level.

As for the backpack leash, while that may be a better ("less babyish") option than the stroller, in regards to the kids' chronological age(s), it may come to feel demeaning to the kid(s); especially if they run into school or other friends while wearing the leash & their peers make fun of them because they're being, basically, walked around by the neck like they were a dog. Or the other parents may gossip about Jen &/or Bill walking their kid(s) around on leashes while pretty much none of the other parents do it.

Yes, Will sat in a stroller when he was with Bill & Jen in China & we know Bill could push him in it then. And Will & Zoey sat in a "double stroller" while Bill pushed them in India between when they got Zoey at the orphanage & when they, & Kate the Nanny, flew home from India (after Jen flew home early due to illness & got her cancer diagnosis). The thing about all of that is, Will was 3 at the time of his "Gotcha" Day in China with Jen & Bill, & Zoey was 2 at the time of her "Gotcha" Day in India. And Bill had to have fairly necessary back surgery, to fuse some herniated discs, soon after Zoey arrived home or he'd risk paralysis & the inability to walk &/or to help care for the kids.

On the kids' "Gotcha" days (which were 3-4 years ago now, or more; Will was 3 & Zoey was 2, & 1 of the trips to get them was over Jen's Birthday while the other was over Bill's), each of them, separately & together, probably didn't weigh what they do now, given how much time has passed since they came into Bill & Jen's lives. Also with Bill's now fused discs, he may not be as able to push whatever the added weight is without maybe risking more, possibly worse, back trouble.

Basically, I'm saying whatever Bill was physically capable of, regarding assisting with the kids' mobility, when they got the kids--thanks to the passing of time, his increased age, his back surgery, & the kids growing up, getting at least a little taller & definitely gaining more weight--Bill may not be as physically capable of doing stuff like pushing the kids in strollers, etc., anymore.

Which may be another reason why some of the grandparents &/or Kate (when she was around--she was supposed to have come back to work for the family after her honeymoon, but who knows when that was in relation to when the family moved to Tampa/St. Pete) are invited to go along on (at least some) trips Bill & Jen take with the kids; the grandparents maybe are still able to push the kids in a mobility aid, if used; if not, they can at least be "grandchildren wranglers"--run off after them if they get away from the family & haul them back to the group before they get too separated (like Nainai Judy, I think it was, said she'd tackled Zoey somewhere & brought her back to the group after she got away somewhere. I wanna say it was on the trip we just saw where Jen, Bill, their kids, & Jen's side of the family went to Charlotte, NC, to meet Jen's new baby nephew & attend his baptism, where Bill & Jen were named Godparents & then they celebrated the birthday of 1 of Jen's brothers (who may or may not have been the same person as the father of the baby).

I read you, loud and clear. I understand Bill's limitations increase as the kids gets older/bigger and how maneuvering a stroller with two kids would be next to impossible for him. I have three herniated discs myself (not a candidate for surgery, but I still have bad days where I can't even lift my 22lb dog) and have empathy for those who suffer from back pain. I do think they bring "kid wranglers" with them (grandparents, Kate) because they (Bill and Jen) know they are not physically capable of controlling their children, which makes me wonder if the kid wranglers (minus Kate, because she was hired help) are truly invited to spend time together on these trips or are they used as glorified babysitters (and maybe the grandparents are ok with that)? I'm sure TLC/the Kleins love to show their extended families together, and I understand that, I really do.

This will probably be an unpopular opinion, but I personally think Bill should have accompanied Jen to Scotland and left the kids at home with grandparents. Yes, there would be no "show" to see, and we definitely wouldn't get to snark on how horribly those kids acted in the castle (along with the other "OH MY GOD, is that for real?" stuff we love to snark on), but I think seeing this family in their own home, doing normal and daily things is what's most beneficial to the public if their true intent is to educate us. I want to see more of Bill at work. How does he handle customers (or their kids) who stare? Do they have any teachable moments for us like Trent from 7LittleJs did when his family was at the amusement park?

I also think Bill and Jen could use some time together, just the two of them, to re-connect and do whatever it is that new parents do after welcoming kids. Perhaps if they had more time together, they'd be able to communicate better about how they'd like to raise their kids?!?! Just a thought!

1 minute ago, BitterApple said:

BW Manilowe, I agree with every word of your post, but in a way that makes me feel bad for the grandparents. They're not spring chickens themselves and running after unruly toddlers all day has to be exhausting. I guess the trade-off is they're getting appearance fees and free trips, but I wonder how long that will last before they've had enough and can't do it anymore. 

I'll give a pass on a lot of things, but Will sprinting off whenever something shiny catches his attention needs stop, delays or no delays. That sort of thing could get him or one of his parents killed. 

THIS! What happens when grandparents cannot travel with them or reach an age where they have to be careful themselves? It's been convenient for Jen and Bill to have "help" with two kids during their travels, but bottom line is that one day (probably very soon), it will just be the two of them taking care of their kids. Perhaps I'm wrong, and I will gladly own that. However, Will needs to be taught and practice listening to his parents AND self-control for everyone's safety.

[floridamom]

All of these posts above are the very reason that Bill and Jen need to get a handle on the discipline and behavior of their children. They need for their VOICES and FACES to be effective on their children. Asking 'please', always saying 'thank you' to the kids for really nothing is demeaning for the parents in my opinion. It's as if they are giving their children a choice whether or not to obey them....and thanking them for choosing to do so. Sorry, but when I was growing up, THE LOOK my parents gave me, while remaining silent spoke volumes to my sister and I. No need for conversation there. The Kleins need to step up and take the reigns of these kids before they 'don't have the option'.

[Bridget]

6 minutes ago, calpurnia99 said:

I know Jen says to Zoey: Can you please sit down?  Tell her, sit the fuck down!  Counting- then stopping? Terrible! I'm going to count to 3? Then she doesn't?.

Preach!! And this is how they SHOULD begin to be consistent with the EASY stuff, but they have shown us that they cannot even master that. Zero consequences and those kids know it.

They treat them like toddlers because they look like toddlers so now they act like toddlers. Will is 6 they treat him like he is 3. Zoey is so tiny, she is the size of  a 1 year old. They treat her like a 2-3 year old as well.  They need to raise their voices in a firm way, and Tell them what to do and not put in a request. They should be treating them at their age level and not as toddlers. It's sad. They should know better being Little People themselves.

THIS! I cannot stand it when parents/guardians end every single sentence/command/request with "...OK?"

You're not asking for their permission, you are parenting them! It's one of my pet peeves in life overall. (That and when people use the word "of" instead of  "have" in a sentence.)

As for all the toys, Jen has to have every dumb stupid specialty item that comes out. The Halloween decorations I am sure were all her idea. She wastes so much money on unnecessary crap. I noticed this she got them all aprons and hats saying "baking cookies" for baking cookies. She buys things and they use them once. She got this fancy (expensive) chart to track their height. We just used a pencil on the wall in the laundry room- more fun!

She should take some of that money and privately hire Supernanny! I know Jo Frost can fix those behaviors...and will probably have to check in on the parents once a week to make sure they're staying consistent!

I know it's blasphemy to say I wish Zoey had longer hair. 

I'll say what some might be thinking: she looks like a boy in certain shots/angles. She was perfect with her normal little girl haircut. Pixie cuts are very chic on women, not so much on little girls. (I LOVED Emma Watson's hair when she cut it off several years ago - stunning!) 

 

[BW Manilowe]

11 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

BW Manilowe, I agree with every word of your post, but in a way that makes me feel bad for the grandparents. They're not spring chickens themselves and running after unruly children all day has to be exhausting. I guess the trade-off is they're getting appearance fees and free trips, but I wonder how long that will last before they've had enough and can't do it anymore. 

I'll give a pass on a lot of things, but Will sprinting off whenever something shiny catches his attention needs to stop, delays or no delays. That sort of thing could get him or one of his parents killed.

Yeah, I hear you on the grandparents not being spring chickens anymore. But thank heaven it seems all of them (bio & step, both) still seem to be in good enough shape to help Jen & Bill when asked/needed.

Yeah, I also agree that Will just running off like that might get him, someone else in the family, a new nanny, friend of the family, etc., seriously injured or even killed someday. But the thing I keep hearing in my head is Jen when she mentioned (I think it was when they were with Bill's mom at Grand Central Station) that instead of being afraid of people they should be, they really aren't afraid of anybody (I guess Bill & Zoey, when she first met him, is an exception to that). I think Jen said it was because they meet so many people who might become their parents that they really can't let themselves be too afraid of anyone, & they'll go off with anyone at the drop of a hat (whereas other children will be more wary), which is scary. And I wonder if that attitude might be part of his boisterous nature.

[Libby]

1 hour ago, PradaKitty said:

Okay folks,

Let's remember that these episodes were filmed one year ago.  We don't know how much the kids have matured.  It might be a whole new ball game now.

We saw them in the post Houston storm episode, which was current.

I didn't see any improvement. (1)They were hanging on their uncle's legs. They seemed more like 2 and 3 year olds instead of 6 and 7 year olds. (2)Will was told to put the dog gently into his cage. He proceeded to throw him in. Of course, Bill laughed and thought it was funny. (3)When they returned to the Florida house and were looking around for damage, Will was whining incessantly. They repeatedly told him to just wait a minute. He totally ignored them. They are a few examples that I can remember. If I rewatched, I bet I could come up with more.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Libby

[Libby]

On the episode when they adopted Will, Jen said that she definitely wanted to stop Will from sucking his thumb. She said that he couldn't do babyish things because he was little. She said that people would tend to treat him younger than he was and that it was very important that Will didn't do anything to reinforce this tendency in people.

I think that in the very beginning, Jen knew what to do and did it with Will. The problem was that Bill was good time, fun dad and didn't back Jen up in anything. The result was that Will adored Bill and didn't like Jen at all. I think that this was very upsetting and embarrassing for Jen. Consequently, she went against what she thought was best so that the kids would like her. It's a shame. Now nobody is trying to teach the kids how to act. Bill is a horrible partner in child rearing.

[Snow8585]

I really thought Will was going to fall in the sting ray tank.

[Kid]

41 minutes ago, Snow8585 said:

I really thought Will was going to fall in the sting ray tank.

So did I.  

When I was a kid, whoever was in charge just had to give me “the look” and I toed the line.  The only person in that family that has “the look” down pat Is Zoey and the parents are towing the line every time she throws it at them.  Now, I understand the children sometimes don’t like food that is put in front of them. But to throw that nasty look just because the pancake wasn’t heart-shaped as her mother cut it up for her REALLY rubbed me the wrong way.  

Then again, I’m a survivor of child abuse so I really don’t understand children who get all bent out of shape over nothing. My daily life was a matter of life and death  navigation. And I am NOT recommending that is a way to raise children. There’s a big difference between abuse and discipline.  Abuse gives you a worldview that the world is not safe. Discipline instills security.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Kid

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Hugs Kid...

[winsomeone]

Even the speech therapist was running along behind Will, instead of telling him children should not run in the house, or indoors...something most of our mothers taught us at an early age. The same with our voices...indoor and outdoor voices. I have a handicapped son who is now an adult. From the many handicapped  children I have been around, ones who are 3-4 years behind their peers really never seem to catch up all of the way, or anywhere near to catching up.

[Kohola3]

Quote

I really thought Will was going to fall in the sting ray tank.

Seriously?  The side of the tank was up to his neck!

 

[Libby]

Judy wasn't in this episode. That picture is from another time. Will was on a stool and standing much higher in this episode.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Libby

[SMama]

The picture above is from the aquarium in NOLA. We visited shortly after the family was there. Now I don’t feel bad about how many aquariums we have visited since SDaughter came home. None in CA so far, but every state we have visited. Hey, that’s weird.

Edited November 3, 2017 by SMama

[Sasha888]

14 hours ago, floridamom said:

I can't stand his screaming...I sound like an old crank, but it's true, sorry, I must confess. I could never stand children screaming for no reason or for a 'little excitement thing".

If that makes us "old cranks", then go ahead and put me in the old crank category! :-) I can't stand it either. If a kid is on a roller coaster, has just received a gift that is a big surprise, etc...then fine. Some events a "screamable" (is that even a word? ha ha). But some kids scream just because they are running across the living room. To me that screeching is like nails on a chalkboard...but unfortunately, the "chalkboard" is my spine!!!! I can almost feel the squeal traveling up my spine, lol. 

I had some neighborhood kids I was friends with as a child, and they did a lot of running around screaming for no reason. My Mom said "Do their legs not work unless they are screaming? Seriously, can they physically not run if their mouth isn't going?" Cracked me up! 

There's a difference between laughing & having a good time, and actual screeching or screaming. There's also a difference between inside play and outside play. I don't like screaming for no reason anywhere, but when children are INDOORS, the noise is even more amplified. What happened to using your "inside voice"? 

This may be an unpopular opinion...but I saw no reason why Will had to be running and screaming in the waiting room at his speech therapy appointment. To me that was a real lack of boundaries (the parents' fault...not Will's). There are other people waiting, people working at the check in desk, etc. To me that's a clinical setting, not a playground. Just my opinion....YMMV.

[Kid]

1 hour ago, Foghorn Leghorn said:

Hugs Kid...

Thank you! 

[viewer]

Maybe, if they put the kids in a stroller and explained it was because they didn't behave  they would straighten up.    The embarrassment of being known as a brat is much worse.  Who in their right mind would invite Will over for a play date?   They are not doing these kids any favors by laughing it off.

[Bridget]

4 hours ago, Libby said:

On the episode when they adopted Will, Jen said that she definitely wanted to stop Will from sucking his thumb. She said that he couldn't do babyish things because he was little. She said that people would tend to treat him younger than he was and that it was very important that Will didn't do anything to reinforce this tendency in people.

I think that in the very beginning, Jen knew what to do and did it with Will. The problem was that Bill was good time, fun dad and didn't back Jen up in anything. The result was that Will adored Bill and didn't like Jen at all. I think that this was very upsetting and embarrassing for Jen. Consequently, she went against what she thought was best so that the kids would like her. It's a shame. Now nobody is trying to teach the kids how to act. Bill is a horrible partner in child rearing.

This!

I think it all started downhill when Bill became the stay at home parent, and Jen was the one who worked a million hours a week to keep food on the table and clothes on their backs. I'm not a mom, but from what I know about "mom guilt", I'd bet Jen gave up with trying to implement rules/routine (that's what I choose to tell myself!) at some point, stopped picking her battles, which is unfortunate, and the behavior of her children has become the result of these actions. I suspect that seeing Will bond with Bill instead of her was like a punch in the face since we all know how badly she wanted a child. Even when she had her "own child", Zoey, she still struggled, even after the cancer. 

I am not blaming Jen at all for her choice to work and have Bill stay at home - it's what makes sense financially, and keeps everyone living in the lifestyle to which they have been accustomed to. (I'm looking at you, Bill!)

 I know she works hard all day, fought cancer and probably tires easily. I think she's incredibly gifted at what she does, but when it comes to her kids, as many have pointed out, she literally cannot control them whether it's physically, verbally or non-verbally.

I'd be happy to teach Bill and Jen my "teacher look" - it gets the job done with kids twice as big as me!

Edited November 3, 2017 by Bridget
content

[Sasha888]

I've noticed several people mention "the look"...and it's a great idea, I agree with you all, but I just want to point out that "the look" works because there are consequences behind it. I know the look. I've gotten the look...but what snapped me back in line was what I knew would come after the look. With Bill & Jen, I'm not seeing the necessary consequences that make the look effective. 

For instance, when they were at the Dr appt last week, Jen said to Bill that Will was giving her "the stare down", and she said "I'll stare you down right back." That's fine Jen, but what are you going to do? Getting into a stare down competition with him does nothing, if she doesn't follow it up with any actual discipline.