S25.E08: Week 7: Halloween Night

[Toonces464]

22 minutes ago, Bridget said:

Hi Folks. I literally created my account to comment on the Nikki/Vanessa issue. I've been killing myself laughing at so many of the messages on many of these boards, but my red hair is on fire and I've got to say what's in my heart.

1. So glad about Vanessa leaving.

Vanessa Lachey aka "I'm just livin' the normal mommy life when I'm not going to events for publicity and swag bags with my husband" has been auditioning for a job (Erin's) that has and was not available from Day Freakin' One.

Did anyone else notice how she always had something to say when she was within two feet of a microphone, especially before scoring whether it was what she deemed a "witty quip", a retort or a joke about herself and/or the dance? It came off as super obnoxious and in my opinion, she tried WAY too hard to be Erin. It was cringe worthy and awkward. I wanted to yell at her through the screen that she'll never be BFFs with Tom Bergeron (my dream!) and have a natural banter with him. I know many people don't care for Erin, but I love her. (I also want to know why she's not been shown a lot this season. Early stages of pregnancy perhaps? She's been open about her IVF plans, maybe she's taking it easy this season?)

Bruno told Vanessa to work on finishing her lines and she didn't. She also had balance issues as well and I know I've seen her dance in several different lengths of heels, so it can't be the shoes' fault she went home (heehee). If she'd had balance issues in longer length costumes, then she should have requested shorter versions if that would have helped her on her quest for the Mirror Ball.

While I have been anti-Vanessa since Day One, even I thought that Maks was cray-cray last night with his choreography - and not in a good way! Anyone else think he chose to really get into his Frankenstein character with that continual "come near my hands and I will choke you" posture as an excuse not to have to dance with her as much as possible? I just thought it was so damn odd because while he's got his haters (I'm not one of them), he is the King of the Paso Doble. 

Go home to your "Group of Mommy Friends" and continue to show up to the opening of an envelope. Please and thank you.

2. Bummed about Nikki Bella (NOT "the wrestling chick" as some people call her), but she really grew as a dancer in this competition. We saw her become more graceful each week, especially last week (minus the balance issue, of course) and Guilty Pleasures week.

I suspect that people had expectations of her due to her athletic skills, and as a proud fan of hers, even I had high hopes. I knew she wouldn't make it to the semi-finals, but she took what the judges said and used that to improve.  Her kicks n flicks weren't the best last night, but she was a hell of a lot better than she was on Disney Night. 

I began to see early one that she doesn't have some of the basics that can't be taught: musicality and timing. For all of those people who stated her routines were "paint by numbers", I don't disagree, but I think Artem had a challenge on his hand when it came to choreo that didn't highlight her inability to move naturally to music.  When Artem realized (probably early on) that she doesn't naturally bounce/step/hop naturally to the music, and those are the nuances that make certain people stand out, he did the best he could with that he had to work with...and he lasted a hell of a lot longer this season than he had before, which speaks to his talent. 

I think Nikki's growth was a hell of a lot better than Frankie's. I just don't see what everyone sees in him or Victoria. During the team dance last night, I know I'm not the only one who saw Victoria lift up her dress and see her count out the steps (and pray to God that she was getting them right). I understand she's beaten the odds. I get it, I do. However, I think she's hit the wall with as far as she can come. If she cannot feel her feet, she's not got the gift of musicality either - and that's what makes a dancer stand out.  She cannot dance without Val and it showed last night.  I have worked closely with the participants of Project Walk and have seen the miracles they perform. There is no other word for it. It's mind blowing. What most people don't know is that many of the PW patients attend the local community college as students and take on the world like no one I've ever seen. I admit that the Corn Field Crew had a mixed bag of abilities (and Nikki wasn't that great either), but I would have like to have seen Nikki stay at least one more week.

Here come the haters in 3,2,1...

Welcome! Loved reading what you had to say.

I especially liked all the references to Mommy Vanessa. I said to a friend during the show that I wondered if she could ever get through a sentence without referring to herself as Mama. We get it.....you found a guy to give you kids. You're still allowed to have a life and interests outside of that but it doesn't seem she does.

Whatever my feelings then or now about Maks, I usually love his Pasos. This week was a total letdown because I was expecting much more out of him. He's miserable and he can't hide it.....but I don't think he even put any effort into this dance.

I loved Erin when she was on the show but she gets on my nerves now.....but I still like her very much as co-host. Vanessa, much like Leah Remini, would probably make me stop watching the show if she were co-host. 

I've commented all season on Erin's lack of screen time but said friend had a good point. They waste so much time waiting for them to go up the stairs and then hug/high-five everyone up there, and then Erin can't stop talking, especially when she's got Maks, Val or an athlete up there with her. They already run out of time as it is, so keeping them downstairs with Tom for one quick question does save them a lot of time. And even then, they still manage to run out of time.

As for Erin being pregnant, I don't think so. Not only has she been in tight outfits most of the season, but she can't keep her mouth shut about anything and is constantly seeking attention, especially on social media, and I think she would have given something away. Hell, I knew she was going to Greece for her honeymoon before I think even she did LOL. I also hope she's thinking long and hard about starting a family with this guy she married because he's a known playboy and a known cokehead. That doesn't bode well for her long-term goals.

[Annber03]

Just now, Bridget said:

13 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Is it lame that I shed a few tears when Tom went into "Dad Mode" and sat down with Lindsey after her dance? His character is EVERYTHING.

Not at all! I liked that moment, too. I was hoping that somebody would suggest she sit down after that dance! I remember Marie fainting, didn't want a repeat of that with Lindsey. 

Quote

I encourage everyone here to Google their website and watch the videos of what they do there. What many people don't know is that patients move from ALL over the country to a beachside city in San Diego County. Parents (rightfully) uproot their entire families and move here to get the therapy and help needed for their loved one to make as much progress as much as possible.

Wow. That's dedication, indeed. That's good they have that kind of familial support. I'll give the site a look, see what all's involved. 

[FilmTVGeek80]

16 minutes ago, Andie1 said:

Frankie on the other hand says he can't remember his past. That's convenient. 

Probably not for him.

 

3 minutes ago, Andie1 said:

It is a sad world when speaking properly is somehow considered not being genuine. 

Did you see anyone say that the reason they think Jordan isn't genuine is that he speaks proper English? It's not about that. He just seems like he's putting on a role and isn't being his real self with canned answers. 

[Andie1]

1 minute ago, boyznkatz said:

I agree, I would just like to know more about him on a personal level. A lot of child actors are guarded when they give interviews.

I think he's given a lot of himself on this show, I am more interested in his dancing.  He does share on social media,  I do know he has a very sweet little girlfriend who was in the audience, they are lovey dovey on instagram and she's going to graduate school and can't be at the show very often.  I know that Lin-Manuel loves the guy, and his adopted parents adore him, they go to all of his appearances, they were in the audience for the Ellen show.  Other than that, I think that's pretty healthy stuff for a 23 year old. 

2 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

Probably not for him.

 

Did you see anyone say that the reason they think Jordan isn't genuine is that he speaks proper English? It's not about that. He just seems like he's putting on a role and isn't being his real self with canned answers. 

Yes it is imho the reason.  His answers are genuine. He's 23. What do you want from him?

As far as role, well Frankie should be more forthcoming about his years away from the public.  What the hell happened to him, or does he not want anyone to know?

[Bridget]

3 minutes ago, Toonces464 said:

Welcome! Loved reading what you had to say.

Thanks! I have to admit that putting feelings/thoughts into CyberSpace is a bit unnerving - I feel kind of like the new girl at school without any friends!

I especially liked all the references to Mommy Vanessa. I said to a friend during the show that I wondered if she could ever get through a sentence without referring to herself as Mama. We get it.....you found a guy to give you kids. You're still allowed to have a life and interests outside of that but it doesn't seem she does.

Whatever my feelings then or now about Maks, I usually love his Pasos. This week was a total letdown because I was expecting much more out of him. He's miserable and he can't hide it.....but I don't think he even put any effort into this dance.

Right? I was so bummed because I love his Pasos and wanted to see a good one before he (eventually) left very soon!

Vanessa, much like Leah Remini, would probably make me stop watching the show if she were co-host. Couldn't agree with you more. Not even the power of my beloved Tom Bergeron (who IS old enough to be my father) would make me tune in.

They waste so much time waiting for them to go up the stairs and then hug/high-five everyone up there, and then Erin can't stop talking, especially when she's got Maks, Val or an athlete up there with her. They already run out of time as it is, so keeping them downstairs with Tom for one quick question does save them a lot of time. And even then, they still manage to run out of time. Never thought of it that way, but now I get it. I always feel sorry for the ones who just danced a jive because they've got those damn stairs to RUN up and then are expected to enunciate clearly during an interview!

 I also hope she's thinking long and hard about starting a family with this guy she married because he's a known playboy and a known cokehead. That doesn't bode well for her long-term goals. Agree! I was even shocked she married the guy after he was arrested in Vegas. NOT Daddy/family material at all for me. In all seriousness, it makes me think about "celebs" and how normal they really are....and not in the "Look at them! They pump their own gas!" as US Magazine points out.

Her age + wanting babies + married to her jobs that have her flying all over the country = does she say yes to the first guy who asks/has been heavily hinted to on national TV?

[boyznkatz]

9 minutes ago, Andie1 said:

I think he's given a lot of himself on this show, I am more interested in his dancing.  He does share on social media,  I do know he has a very sweet little girlfriend who was in the audience, they are lovey dovey on instagram and she's going to graduate school and can't be at the show very often.  I know that Lin-Manuel loves the guy, and his adopted parents adore him, they go to all of his appearances, they were in the audience for the Ellen show.  Other than that, I think that's pretty healthy stuff for a 23 year old. 

Yes it is imho the reason.  His answers are genuine. He's 23. What do you want from him?

As far as role, well Frankie should be more forthcoming about his years away from the public.  What the hell happened to him, or does he not want anyone to know?

I don't follow any of these folks on social media, so I can only judge what I see on the show. If they want to win, they need to show us who they are, and no one has really done that IMO except TO.

Even if Frankie has a shady past, why would he need to talk about it? Letting people know you doesn't mean you need to drag all your skeletons out of the closet.

[Andie1]

20 minutes ago, Toonces464 said:

Bummed about Nikki Bella (NOT "the wrestling chick" as some people call her), but she really grew as a dancer in this competition. We saw her become more graceful each week, especially last week (minus the balance issue, of course) and Guilty Pleasures week.

On this I agree wholeheartedly.  She was growing as a dancer.  I really enjoyed her Argentine Tango and thought the partnership with her and Artem was inspired.  Jordan, Lindsey, TO and Nikki were the ones that I watch the entire package having a lot of respect for their pros and their abilities.  Victoria I think she's a great girl, I think she would be better served with another pro.  Drew is just a disaster regardless of Emma trying to find the right vehicle,  and Frankie is running on the fumes of a past child acting stint.

4 minutes ago, boyznkatz said:

I don't follow any of these folks on social media, so I can only judge what I see on the show. If they want to win, they need to show us who they are, and no one has really done that IMO except TO.

Even if Frankie has a shady past, why would he need to talk about it? Letting people know you doesn't mean you need to drag all your skeletons out of the closet.

Right.  I am just perturbed that people want to knock a young man for being who he is.  He reminds me of the character Randall on This is Us.  He's who he is, probably a theatre geek and that's how they communicate.   As far as Frankie is concerned I could care less about him, I just don't vote for that. 

Edited November 1, 2017 by Andie1

[Bridget]

9 minutes ago, Andie1 said:

16 minutes ago, boyznkatz said:

I agree, I would just like to know more about him on a personal level. A lot of child actors are guarded when they give interviews.

I think he's given a lot of himself on this show, I am more interested in his dancing.  He does share on social media,  I do know he has a very sweet little girlfriend who was in the audience, they are lovey dovey on instagram and she's going to graduate school and can't be at the show very often.  I know that Lin-Manuel loves the guy, and his adopted parents adore him, they go to all of his appearances, they were in the audience for the Ellen show.  Other than that, I think that's pretty healthy stuff for a 23 year old. 

There's also the information we now know about him having two younger siblings that were mentioned during Most Memorable Year. Perhaps there was a time period in his life that he doesn't wish to talk about. Maybe an unstable mother who was in/out of his life while she was popping out more babies that she couldn't take care of freaked him out because he didn't know where he would end up? Perhaps he had abandonment/fear issues? Add that to any kid's life and chances are they won't want to talk about it, and definitely not in a 30 second video package right before he takes the floor.

May I also suggest that unlike the guy in OneDirection who got into a fight (WITH HIS girlfriend swinging at people as well) with paparazzi at LAX, Jordan leads a "boring life" compared to his "peers" and there isn't anything more to share? His talent, along with his humility and modesty, is what has kept him afloat, gainfully employed and the amazing opportunity to sing a selection on a Disney soundtrack.

[SuprSuprElevated]

[spanana]

1 hour ago, boyznkatz said:

She really doesn't seem like Val's type. Being an attention whore, you would think he would be happier with Amber Rose.

I think the issue with Val/Amber is Val needs to be the more famous one in the relationship and running the show.  Amber has too much of her own thing going on.  He wants someone that is going to follow him around and feed his ego.

As for Jordan, I don't have any problem with his personality or how he comes across.  I can see why some people complain about him being too much of a typical theatre kid and yes, perhaps he's a bit rehearsed, but I think he's mostly genuine.  I also don't really see the comparisons between him and Corbin besides both having Disney backgrounds and good dancers with a fair bit of training.  I don't even think their personalities are all that similar.

But really I don't have a problem with the personality of any of the remaining celebs.  Sure there might be some people I root for over others, but I've seen nothing from any of them to really turn me off.  Except TO at the beginning and he seems to have moved past that.

Edited November 1, 2017 by spanana

[MsJamieDornan]

2 hours ago, Toonces464 said:

Is anyone else still baffled about how one goes from Jenna Johnson to Amber Rose back to Jenna Johnson? LOL

Publicity baby !!!!!!

[spanana]

In re-watching the Phantom of the Opera group number, to me that is a prime example of what Frankie brings to the table.  While Frankie did seem to have the lead role in the number with both his speaking part at the beginning and the one left standing at the end in the mask, IMO he is the only celeb in that number that commanded any attention at all.  Vanessa, Victoria and Drew could have been swapped out with just about any one and the number would have felt absolutely the same.  They all did a decent enough job (though Victoria was off time at various points), but there was no presence or there there.  Every time I tried to watch what anybody else was doing, my eyes always came back to Frankie who was completely in character and commanded some sort of attention.  I'd also argue I think he danced the number better than the other three, though I realize in saying that the female and male parts are very different.  All the others had moments of looking unsteady and I didn't see that from him.

I also agree with what a previous poster said about actors on this show.  While you would expect actors to excel at acting the dances, that hasn't entirely been the case.  We've had many actors who actually struggle with that aspect.  I think it happens a lot because people are out of their comfort zone and so they probably are so focused on just learning and remembering and executing the steps and they get so in their heads that they can't lay a performance on top of all of that.  You have to be out of your head enough to be able to turn on the performance aspect.  Weirdly Frankie for as much of a self admitted headcase as he can be at times when it comes to freaking out before he goes on, he usually manages to put it out of his head as soon as the number starts.

Edited November 2, 2017 by spanana

[sab85]

Quote

The other argument I want to make to some extent is that acting and performance are a big part of dance.  You can be the best technical dancer in the world, but if you can't sell a performance what good is all the technique.  You need to be both a technician as well as be able to play various roles.  What Frankie is more skilled at than his other competitors is he knows how to act and sell a performance, with the exception of the troll number.  I guess it's expected to some degree since he's an actor by trade, but so is Jordan and I'd actually argue that while obviously Jordan is a more talented dancer, Frankie is better at disappearing into parts/roles.  Both skill sets are necessary so I don't exactly think it's fair to totally right off what Frankie is doing. What Frankie needs is for his technical side to catch up to his performance side, but it's still all a part of dance and self expression.

Yup. This actually reminded me a lot of Heather Morris who was the best technical dancer to ever be on the show (as she was, you know, a DANCER) but often danced completely blank-faced and did little to sell the dance for me. Frankie is the opposite- his technique could improve but he can really sell the dance.  

Quote

Exactly. She seems very childish and acts more like a 12 year old than a grown woman. That is weird to me. She is a lovely dancer, though.

I feel bad because I'm only a few years younger and am often quirky/childish myself but I really can't connect with Lindsey because of this. I really have no idea who she is besides the quirks.

Jordan is in a lose-lose situation. He is like Corbin and all the other Disney kids that their answers come off as faux humble and disingenuous. But if he were to say something that implied he was the best dancer he would be crucified for it. 

If you are a camera, Jenna Johnson will KNOW where you are and will eye-fuck you. 

Edited November 1, 2017 by sab85

[Annber03]

24 minutes ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

LOL, I like this :D.

20 minutes ago, spanana said:

But really I don't have a problem with the personality of any of the remaining celebs.  Sure there might be some people I root for over others, but I've seen nothing from any of them to really turn me off.  

Same here. 

[SnarkyTart]

Disclaimer: as I post seemingly ad nauseam every week, I watch DWTS to be entertained by dance performances, choreography, and staging.  So my own judging and critiques are skewed by what entertains me, which is purely subjective. 

Halloween week, historically my favorite theme on DWTS, gave me too little to be entertained by this week.  I’m disappointed about that.

All of the routines were too short, and too many of them were overly-crowded with troupe dancers.  It was a big disappointment that so many of the routines didn’t reflect the spirit of the Halloween theme, at least for me.  For instance, Jordan and Lindsay’s paso doble would have been exactly the same if Jordan hadn’t been wearing werewolf make-up.  Or, Val and Victoria’s viennese waltz would be exactly the same if they hadn’t bothered to have the first few seconds showing the graves.  Furthering my personal gripe with the lack of a true Halloween spirit, I felt the pro/troupe dances added almost nothing to demonstrate the unique scariness or spookiness of the theme, other than some of their costumes.

The team dance segment, or at least the Monster Mash, was like the nail in the coffin.  I’m not entertained by a Halloween night dance that’s pure corniness.  Of course, the team was ridiculously handicapped by the music they were assigned, which also ticked me off.  But surely at least Mark is capable of coming up with something more innovative in concept or costuming to bring a few chills and thrills?   

While I love all the stage props typically used on this night, I still insist that I be able to clearly see the actual contestant.  For example, while I’m pretty sure that Jordan delivered another nearly flawless routine, there were too many times I was distracted by the number of dancers on stage, as well as the bad camera work obstructing my view.

I expect the judges’ scores to annoy me, but a few of them were extra annoying on this night.  If they want me to think they unanimously  believed that Drew’s charleston was deserving of the same unanimous 9’s that Lindsey’s paso received, I find that downright insulting.  And, if they want me to believe the Phantom group routine was as good as either Team Nightmare or Team Foxing Awesome, they can stick it where the sun don’t shine.   Still, I was more entertained by the Phantom routine than the Cornpone routine, and felt it delivered more of the Halloween theatricality I enjoy.  So, for that reason, I would give Team Phantom a 9 and Team Cornpone an 8.

The Frankie controversy bores me.  Yep, he can’t (imo) dance any better than the remaining second tier of Victoria, Drew, or TO.  But he is capable of delivering wonderfully-acted characters, which has certainly elevated the entertainment value (for me!) of a few of his routines, such as his Pirate argentine tango and definitely his killer/stalker routine last night.  I was more entertained by this routine than any of the others last night, and it captured the theme better than any of the others (for me!).  Even so, I wouldn’t give it a perfect 10, because his dancing doesn’t merit that. 

I’m not mad about the DE.  For me, other than Jordan and Lindsey, the contestants remaining prior to the DE were all pretty evenly matched for different reasons, so it could have been any two of them.  For this same reason, my vote for the final 3 is relatively unchanged: Jordan and Lindsey in either order for final 2.  For third place I might prefer Frankie just because,  of the remaining second tier, he’s the one most likely to deliver great entertainment for finale week.  Still, I wouldn’t be unhappy with TO in third place strictly on the basis of his obvious improvements and authentic enjoyment about being on the show. For me, Victoria delivers neither improvement or entertainment, so I wouldn’t mind seeing her gone next week.  If I had to choose between Victoria and Drew, I'd keep Drew simply due to his obvious improvements over the season.

Finally, I’ll miss Artem.    

[MsJamieDornan]

52 minutes ago, Andie1 said:

As far as role, well Frankie should be more forthcoming about his years away from the public.  What the hell happened to him, or does he not want anyone to know?

What is the difference what he was doing ?

[tessaforever]

14 minutes ago, spanana said:

I also agree with what a previous poster said about actors on this show.  While you would expect actors to excel at acting the dances, that hasn't entirely been the case.  We've had many actors who actually struggle with that aspect.  I think it happens a lot because people are out of their comfort zone and so they probably are so focused on just learning and remembering and executing the steps and they get so in their heads that they can't lay a performance on top of all of that.  You have to be out of your head enough to be able to turn on the performance aspect.  Weirdly Frankie for as much of a self admitted headcase as he can be at times when it comes to freaking out before he goes on, he usually manages to put it out of his head as soon as the number starts.

For sure. Frankie definitely taps into his acting talent (although even that couldn't save the troll dance lol). For example, Marilu Henner couldn't bring her acting talent to bear on her dancing for the most part. 

[Andie1]

7 minutes ago, MsJamieDornan said:

What is the difference what he was doing ?

Well he isn't very forthcoming about why he doesn't go to doctors and yet people think his poop doesn't stink.   I really don't care. I think his acting is crap and  I just think its rich to knock Jordan for being well spoken and matter of fact about what he went through as a kid.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Andie1

[MsJamieDornan]

1 minute ago, Andie1 said:

Well he isn't very forthcoming about why he doesn't go to doctors

That's his personal business. Who cares.

[Andie1]

Just now, MsJamieDornan said:

That's his personal business. Who cares.

I don't care about the guy not even a little. I know these types.  But it's also Jordan's personal style and business in how he addresses questions, which to me are fine.  So you shouldn't worry.

[sinkwriter]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I was mainly just responding to the question someone had about how they weren't sure why but they thought sometimes Jordan came off as faux humble. It's not a slam against theatre people - I LOVE theatre people. I AM theatre people. (LOL) What I'm saying is he IS a good guy, but sometimes he sounds super-rehearsed. Just like athletes often have their general stuff they seem to say after every damn game. So after a while you just want them to ditch the rehearsed statement and say something more spontaneous / in the moment. It has nothing to do with having good grammar or not, or speaking 'well' or not. It's about speaking without sounding like you're reading a script.

I like Jordan and root for him. I hope he makes it all the way to the finals (and I'd like to see either him or Lindsey win the whole thing). I just want him to loosen up a little when he answers questions and stop worrying about sounding perfect. 

The "Randall from This is Us" comparison's probably a good one. Not because I think Jordan is Randall (Randall is wayyyy more wound uptight), but because when Randall's trying too hard or being too super-formal, it's excruciating but when Randall loosens up and lets go of expectations, he's marvelous and funny and genuine and so sweet and I adore him so, so much. I think the same could be said for Jordan - if he could let go a little more in interviews, he probably wouldn't sound so rehearsed and we'd get to see more of who he probably is around his friends and theatre buddies.

[Chit Chat]

Quote

As far as role, well Frankie should be more forthcoming about his years away from the public.  What the hell happened to him, or does he not want anyone to know?

Wikipedia gives a pretty good run-down of his life, if you're interested.  I've always liked Frankie.  He was hilarious on Malcolm in the Middle.  I love his attitude and love of DWTS.  He's a joy to watch, IMO.  I hate that he's had the health issues to deal with.  That's got to be tough, but he seems rather resilient.  His attitude about the whole thing is very upbeat.

[Andie1]

22 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

Wikipedia gives a pretty good run-down of his life, if you're interested.  I've always liked Frankie.  He was hilarious on Malcolm in the Middle.  I love his attitude and love of DWTS.  He's a joy to watch, IMO.  I hate that he's had the health issues to deal with.  That's got to be tough, but he seems rather resilient.  His attitude about the whole thing is very upbeat.

Sure Wikipedia whitewashes his past.  Whatever, just not interested in this type of person.

[inandout]

4 hours ago, realdancemom said:

This is another reason why Jordan reminds me of Corbin.  They have similar backgrounds in terms of Disney, musical theater, and dancing.  Their personalities are also very similar.  To me, they are too polished and rehearsed.  I do think they are nice guys but it's difficult to know the real them.  And the reason why I think they give off a fake humble persona is because they are "supposed" to act humble.  In reality, they know that they are the best technical dancers during their seasons. 

OTOH, you also won't get votes if you're a jerk.  I didn't like TO at first.  In the second show, he said something about being way better than Barbara.  It was true but you don't say that.  He also sounded arrogant.  Now, I can see that he's a hard worker, compliments Cheryl, and has a sense of humor.

Being too polished in this kind of competition can be a down fall.  Making mistakes, being frustrated, not always being confident are part of the growing process and makes the contestants more relatable.  And it's why those are the kind of contestants DWTS love.  I can't help but root for TO when he felt he was the weak link in his team.  Whereas with Jordan, it's obvious he has a lot of dance experience.  But the best technical dancer usually doesn't win.

Edited November 2, 2017 by ifoundit

[Chit Chat]

I forgot to mention that I loved Frankie & Whitney's dance.  It was so creepy, but yet so good!!  The singers on this show are excellent too.  I sat up and said "damn" after their Phantom of the Opera performance.  The dancers were pretty damn good too!  

[boyznkatz]

Phantom of the Opera is a great song, but it's not really good for a group dance. I would have loved to see Jordan or Lindsey do it solo.

I wonder who was the genius who wanted to use Monster Mash? That team was doomed from the start.

[LizDC]

12 minutes ago, Andie1 said:

Sure Wikipedia whitewashes his past.  Whatever, just not interested in this type of person.

You sure post a lot about him for someone so disinterested.

Enlighten us, what has Wikipedia whitewashed?

[sinkwriter]

Lindsey played the violin for that piece that she and Mark danced to, right? It sounded amazing. Does anyone know what the piece is called?

Edited November 2, 2017 by sinkwriter

[Callaphera]

53 minutes ago, Andie1 said:

Well he isn't very forthcoming about why he doesn't go to doctors and yet people think his poop doesn't stink.   I really don't care. I think his acting is crap and  I just think its rich to knock Jordan for being well spoken and matter of fact about what he went through as a kid.

47 minutes ago, Andie1 said:

I don't care about the guy not even a little. I know these types.  But it's also Jordan's personal style and business in how he addresses questions, which to me are fine.  So you shouldn't worry.

18 minutes ago, Andie1 said:

Sure Wikipedia whitewashes his past.  Whatever, just not interested in this type of person.

For someone who doesn't care, that's an awful lot of posts talking about him. 

[Andie1]

 

2 minutes ago, LizDC said:

You sure post a lot about him for someone so disinterested.

Enlighten us, what has Wikipedia whitewashed?

Not as much as people want to talk about him.  Google is your friend.  He's just somebody I would never ever vote for in a million years.

[kitcloudkicker]

6 minutes ago, sinkwriter said:

Lindsey played the violin for that piece that she and Mark danced to, right? It sounded amazing. Does anyone know what the piece is called?

Roundtable Rival

[sinkwriter]

Thanks, kitcloudkicker! I liked it.  :)  I'll have to check out all the music she's got listed on her website. Certainly makes me wish I'd practiced more, back when I used to play the violin. That's exactly the kind of awesome jamming I wanted to be able to do.

[SuprSuprElevated]

17 minutes ago, kitcloudkicker said:

Roundtable Rival

A music video for a violin soloist.  How happy am I!?!  (hint:  I am)

[FilmTVGeek80]

2 hours ago, Andie1 said:

Yes it is imho the reason.  His answers are genuine. He's 23. What do you want from him?

As far as role, well Frankie should be more forthcoming about his years away from the public.  What the hell happened to him, or does he not want anyone to know?

No, it's not the reason. I, and many others, have explained why we find Jordan to sound less than genuine in a lot of his interviews. I don't know what him being 23 has to do with anything. I'd like him not to sound like every answer he gives has been rehearsed a million times. I wish he seemed like he had some kind of authentic personality. He's probably very nice and sweet, but it's not showing up for me in his interviews.

 

1 hour ago, Andie1 said:

Well he isn't very forthcoming about why he doesn't go to doctors and yet people think his poop doesn't stink.   I really don't care. I think his acting is crap and  I just think its rich to knock Jordan for being well spoken and matter of fact about what he went through as a kid.

2

Why would him keeping his personal reasons for not going to the doctor affect how people like him and his dancing? How does that correlate? For someone who doesn't care about him you seem to post about him incessantly - and not just post about him, but go out of your way to make cryptic remarks about him and personally insult him. IMO that doesn't seem like someone that doesn't care.

I'd really love to know who has been knocking Jordan for speaking matter-of-factly about his adoption. I haven't seen that AT ALL.

[MsJamieDornan]

1 hour ago, ChitChat said:

Wikipedia gives a pretty good run-down of his life, if you're interested.  I've always liked Frankie.

Imdb also lists that he has been acting almost every year in something since Malcom went off the air. Impressive

Edited November 2, 2017 by MsJamieDornan

[OnceSane]

Knock it off.  Taking jabs at each other isn't okay. Snark the show, not your fellow posters.

[Uke]

7 hours ago, calipiano81 said:

It was particularly frustrating to me this week after seeing Lindsey power through in pain to accomplish that demanding paso doble. And for what? A big chunk of the audience doesn't even care...

Jordan and Lindsey are expected to dance well because of their dance experience. Why is Frankie's acting so impressive when he is famous for being an ACTOR?!!

 

FRANKIE has yet to reach the level of Lindsey/Jordan/Frankie.

It's frustrating to me that of course she only deserved 9s because she was in pain and we all could see her pain in every move (yes I'm being a bit sarcastic).  If she wasn't in pain then she could have gotten 10s.  But take away the mentions ahead of time about the injury, and only disclose it when she couldn't get up after the last move (which is after the dance and not supposed to be subject to scoring), would she have gotten 10s? Probably at least 1 or 2 10s.  Instead, she got the same as Victoria who only did a very simplified standard VW.

(Also, I hope you don't mind if I nitpick, her "dance experience" is bouncing around on stage. No prior dance training.)

[Emily-D]

4 hours ago, Bridget said:

Hi Folks. I literally created my account to comment on the Nikki/Vanessa issue. I've been killing myself laughing at so many of the messages on many of these boards, but my red hair is on fire and I've got to say what's in my heart.

1. So glad about Vanessa leaving.

Vanessa Lachey aka "I'm just livin' the normal mommy life when I'm not going to events for publicity and swag bags with my husband" has been auditioning for a job (Erin's) that has and was not available from Day Freakin' One.

Did anyone else notice how she always had something to say when she was within two feet of a microphone, especially before scoring whether it was what she deemed a "witty quip", a retort or a joke about herself and/or the dance? It came off as super obnoxious and in my opinion, she tried WAY too hard to be Erin. It was cringe worthy and awkward. I wanted to yell at her through the screen that she'll never be BFFs with Tom Bergeron (my dream!) and have a natural banter with him. I know many people don't care for Erin, but I love her. (I also want to know why she's not been shown a lot this season. Early stages of pregnancy perhaps? She's been open about her IVF plans, maybe she's taking it easy this season?)

Bruno told Vanessa to work on finishing her lines and she didn't. She also had balance issues as well and I know I've seen her dance in several different lengths of heels, so it can't be the shoes' fault she went home (heehee). If she'd had balance issues in longer length costumes, then she should have requested shorter versions if that would have helped her on her quest for the Mirror Ball.

While I have been anti-Vanessa since Day One, even I thought that Maks was cray-cray last night with his choreography - and not in a good way! Anyone else think he chose to really get into his Frankenstein character with that continual "come near my hands and I will choke you" posture as an excuse not to have to dance with her as much as possible? I just thought it was so damn odd because while he's got his haters (I'm not one of them), he is the King of the Paso Doble. 

Go home to your "Group of Mommy Friends" and continue to show up to the opening of an envelope. Please and thank you.

2. Bummed about Nikki Bella (NOT "the wrestling chick" as some people call her), but she really grew as a dancer in this competition. We saw her become more graceful each week, especially last week (minus the balance issue, of course) and Guilty Pleasures week.

I suspect that people had expectations of her due to her athletic skills, and as a proud fan of hers, even I had high hopes. I knew she wouldn't make it to the semi-finals, but she took what the judges said and used that to improve.  Her kicks n flicks weren't the best last night, but she was a hell of a lot better than she was on Disney Night. 

I began to see early one that she doesn't have some of the basics that can't be taught: musicality and timing. For all of those people who stated her routines were "paint by numbers", I don't disagree, but I think Artem had a challenge on his hand when it came to choreo that didn't highlight her inability to move naturally to music.  When Artem realized (probably early on) that she doesn't naturally bounce/step/hop naturally to the music, and those are the nuances that make certain people stand out, he did the best he could with that he had to work with...and he lasted a hell of a lot longer this season than he had before, which speaks to his talent. 

I think Nikki's growth was a hell of a lot better than Frankie's. I just don't see what everyone sees in him or Victoria. During the team dance last night, I know I'm not the only one who saw Victoria lift up her dress and see her count out the steps (and pray to God that she was getting them right). I understand she's beaten the odds. I get it, I do. However, I think she's hit the wall with as far as she can come. If she cannot feel her feet, she's not got the gift of musicality either - and that's what makes a dancer stand out.  She cannot dance without Val and it showed last night.  I have worked closely with the participants of Project Walk and have seen the miracles they perform. There is no other word for it. It's mind blowing. What most people don't know is that many of the PW patients attend the local community college as students and take on the world like no one I've ever seen. I admit that the Corn Field Crew had a mixed bag of abilities (and Nikki wasn't that great either), but I would have like to have seen Nikki stay at least one more week.

Here come the haters in 3,2,1...

Only one thing I don’t agree with in this post, I think your doing a disservice to Frankie. I think he has grown certainly the most out of the men IMO. His problem is he can be inconsistent, a great dance one week, a not so great dance the next but his workrate and attitude is unquestionable. I’ve enjoyed watching him far more than I have Jordan and I hope and expect that he makes it to the final three. Fully agree about Victoria though, I wouldn’t have even been upset had she gone and Nikki got another week but that was never going to happen with her backstory.

[calipiano81]

1 hour ago, Uke said:

(Also, I hope you don't mind if I nitpick, her "dance experience" is bouncing around on stage. No prior dance training.)

Oh yes, I try to be careful and make the distinction between "experience" and "training" when it comes to Lindsey. It is hard to deny she has dance "experience" (even though it's just mostly bouncing around on stage, and that one video with Derek), but, as you said, she has had no prior dance "training".

Edited November 2, 2017 by calipiano81

[calipiano81]

3 hours ago, sinkwriter said:

I can't speak for anyone else, but I was mainly just responding to the question someone had about how they weren't sure why but they thought sometimes Jordan came off as faux humble. It's not a slam against theatre people - I LOVE theatre people. I AM theatre people. (LOL) What I'm saying is he IS a good guy, but sometimes he sounds super-rehearsed. Just like athletes often have their general stuff they seem to say after every damn game. So after a while you just want them to ditch the rehearsed statement and say something more spontaneous / in the moment. It has nothing to do with having good grammar or not, or speaking 'well' or not. It's about speaking without sounding like you're reading a script.

I like Jordan and root for him. I hope he makes it all the way to the finals (and I'd like to see either him or Lindsey win the whole thing). I just want him to loosen up a little when he answers questions and stop worrying about sounding perfect. 

The "Randall from This is Us" comparison's probably a good one. Not because I think Jordan is Randall (Randall is wayyyy more wound uptight), but because when Randall's trying too hard or being too super-formal, it's excruciating but when Randall loosens up and lets go of expectations, he's marvelous and funny and genuine and so sweet and I adore him so, so much. I think the same could be said for Jordan - if he could let go a little more in interviews, he probably wouldn't sound so rehearsed and we'd get to see more of who he probably is around his friends and theatre buddies.

Again, people say they want Jordan to not sound so polished and rehearsed, but the second he says something that could even be slightly twisted in a negative way, everyone will pounce on it. 

Also, who knows, maybe Jordan is an introvert in real life and needs to prepare what he says in public (I would definitely relate to that) to avoid sounding boring, awkward, or filling the conversation with a ton of "ums," "likes," "you knows" and other useless fillers. Cause those types of personalities are not appreciated on this show either.

And frankly, DWTS history has shown that the personality criticisms and "can't connect" comments always come out when people can't find anything else to criticize about a dancer. If Jordan danced like the other male celebs this season, his personality would not be an issue.

[tessaforever]

1 hour ago, Uke said:

It's frustrating to me that of course she only deserved 9s because she was in pain and we all could see her pain in every move (yes I'm being a bit sarcastic).  If she wasn't in pain then she could have gotten 10s.  But take away the mentions ahead of time about the injury, and only disclose it when she couldn't get up after the last move (which is after the dance and not supposed to be subject to scoring), would she have gotten 10s? Probably at least 1 or 2 10s.  Instead, she got the same as Victoria who only did a very simplified standard VW.

I can't know for sure if this is true, but I feel like even if nothing had been said about Lindsey's injury, I could just tell something was off. Her last few dances have been downright incredible, and Monday night felt stiff and strange. Also I'm tired of her wearing full face make-up or masks. I want to see her pretty face. It's making it hard to connect with her dancing. 

22 minutes ago, calipiano81 said:

Again, people say they want Jordan to not sound so polished and rehearsed, but the second he says something that could even be slightly twisted in a negative way, everyone will pounce on it. 

Also, who knows, maybe Jordan is an introvert in real life and needs to prepare what he says in public (I would definitely relate to that) to avoid sounding boring, awkward, or filling the conversation with a ton of "ums," "likes," "you knows" and other useless fillers. Cause those types of personalities are not appreciated on this show either.

And frankly, DWTS history has shown that the personality criticisms and "can't connect" comments always come out when people can't find anything else to criticize about a dancer. If Jordan danced like the other male celebs this season, his personality would not be an issue.

He speaks like he has media training. Reminds me of the gymnasts and ice skaters who have been on this show. It's not prepared ahead of time, per se (at least, not scripted), but there's a feeling that he knows what the interviewer is looking for and he'll deliver. It's much better than ums, likes, and you knows, but it doesn't always feel real. It's not just about the content of his answer, it's in the phrasing and body language. And I'm a Jordan fan and wouldn't mind at all if he wins. It's just noticeable, that's all. 

Edited November 2, 2017 by tessaforever

[Carousel]

On 10/26/2017 at 11:50 AM, OnceSane said:

Quote

A Halloween-themed night with scary and chilling performances.

This has been the best season in a long time.  My personal favorites are Drew and Emma.  I loved it when Jonathan joined the dance a few weeks ago.   Drew’s dance this week was adorable  he’s getting quite good  

My pick to win:  Jordan and Lindsay.  They are spectacular and it’s about time for Lindsay to take home that mirror ball. 

I didn’t think Whitney and Frankie deserved those 10s.  All he did was walk around and pose and catch her while she was throwing herself all over the place.  

Glad Nikki went home. Terrell should have been the other one. 

[Uke]

1 hour ago, tessaforever said:

He speaks like he has media training. Reminds me of the gymnasts and ice skaters who have been on this show. It's not prepared ahead of time, per se (at least, not scripted), but there's a feeling that he knows what the interviewer is looking for and he'll deliver. It's much better than ums, likes, and you knows, but it doesn't always feel real. It's not just about the content of his answer, it's in the phrasing and body language. And I'm a Jordan fan and wouldn't mind at all if he wins. It's just noticeable, that's all. 

I think you just hit the nail on the head for me.  The gymnasts are taught to speak in sound-bites.  They "read" into the question as the interviewer is speaking and deliver the "correct" response in a nice neat little sound-bite that is easily quotable and not likely to be misconstrued. This is how Jordan sounds to me. MMV

[calipiano81]

Honestly though, wouldn't most of us answer what we think people want to hear if we were asked a question publicly? Don't many of us do that (try our best to give "correct" answers) in our own personal and professional lives as well?

[Bridget]

9 hours ago, Andie1 said:

Thank you.  Frankie can't dance and his acting is boring to laughable.  The massive overscoring of this guy is pathetic.

This is mainly aimed at Frankie, but also for many of the "legit bad dancers" that we've seen come and go, and for those who will grace our TV screens in the future:

If you have eight hours a day and are training with a professional dancer, there is NO excuse to suck as much as some of these people suck! I'm assuming it's a minimum of eight hours to train- would love to really know if anyone else out there does. I have three herniated discs in my back and still took dance/ballroom classes. Yes, I was in pain, but yoga (and my meds) alleviated the chronic pain. When I saw Frankie hunched over on the stationary bike and pounding away on the treadmill, I winced in pain for him. Those are two things that every person with back injuries/pain knows to stay away from. He needs to be swimming and practicing yoga to physically prep for the show AND to preserve his back. 

I would give a kidney to train with Artem or Sasha for eight hours a day during a season! I shake my head sometimes during the show and think "what the hell did they do all week? They sure as shit didn't learn a routine with a freakin' professional dancer. They definitely didn't practice their steps while brushing their teeth! They didn't hum the music in the shower to get in sync with an unfamiliar tune or song." It almost feels like a huge waste of the pro's time when they bust their arses to choreograph a routine, work with staging/lights, costume dept, make up dept, teach the routine to their partner during their week long practice and the celeb busts out something along the lines of what Wynonna Judd, Master P, Tom DeLay and Barbara Corcoran did: make it look like they never spent a minute in rehearsal! I know not everyone is a dancer, but there are some folks who have literally walked on the floor instead of dancing on it. I'm not saying Frankie's a "walker" versus a "dancer", but at this point, he should have figured out a way to get out of his head, combat his stress and show everyone how hard he is working because I just don't see it on my TV.

I also think having so many troupe dancers in the routines and at rehearsals this season throws off the celebrity and their ability to really learn. Is it me or are they doing too many routines with the troupe for no logical and/or obvious reason? Whatever happened to watching only two people dance, not 22?

I know I'd be intimidated if I had to learn a dance with the troupe in the room because it would totally throw me off...and I teach high school, so it takes a lot to do that! I imagine it's a lot like when my principal pops in for a surprise observation. I know what I'm doing, but their mere presence in the background throws me off my game because those natural nerves and adrenaline kick in and I want to make sure my boss likes the lesson plan/objective for the day. Then I start to stumble over my words or forget to explain XYZ because I'm trying to impress my boss. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

17 hours ago, sinycalone said:

I love Frankie's enthusiasm and acting skills...but he is an erratic dancer.  Some weeks I think he's broken through, then makes a lot of mistakes.  The Halloween "story" was clever...and once again, he nailed the acting.  However, there really wasn't a whole lot of dancing involved.

There was dancing but Witney was doing 99% of it. This was just a better version of the dances we normally see with the male celebs who can’t dance so the female pro dances around them for most of the routine. I think Witney, like several of the other pros, sometimes gives in to her desire to showcase herself and her dancing skills instead of her partner’s. The biggest difference is that she used the Halloween theme and stalker song to make it seem more appropriate, which is more than I can say for the pros who have their celebs strike a pose for 10 seconds while the pro literally dances circles around them. But that is on the pros, not the celebs. No matter how much Frankie “helped” with the choreography, ultimately it’s still the pro’s job to create a routine that shows the celeb off to their best advantage, ESPECIALLY when they’re given the freebie of contemporary. 

9 hours ago, boyznkatz said:

I don't follow any of these folks on social media, so I can only judge what I see on the show. If they want to win, they need to show us who they are, and no one has really done that IMO except TO.

Even if Frankie has a shady past, why would he need to talk about it? Letting people know you doesn't mean you need to drag all your skeletons out of the closet.

I don’t really care about the celebs’ personalities unless they’re being outright assholes because I watch this show for the dancing. I vote for the celebs who perform their dances well. I usually fast forward through all of the intro packages, rehearsal footage, and judging because none of that really interests me. 

But I agree that if (and I’m only saying IF because I am not assuming that any of these celebs are hiding shady pasts) there is anything in Frankie’s past that’s bad, why should he feel obligated to bring it up on DWTS?

This isn’t Celebrity Rehab so no one HAS to share any of their skeletons if they don’t want to. No one forced Nick Lachey to talk about his divorce from Jessica Simpson. No one is going to make Terrell talk about getting into a fistfight in the training room, spitting on another player, or his overdose. No one made Derek Fisher talk about his DUI, his stalker, or getting into a physical altercation with his former teammate. The celebs aren’t required to rehash every mistake they’ve ever made just because they’re learning how to waltz and foxtrot on tv. 

[Chit Chat]

2 hours ago, Bridget said:

I also think having so many troupe dancers in the routines and at rehearsals this season throws off the celebrity and their ability to really learn. Is it me or are they doing too many routines with the troupe for no logical and/or obvious reason? Whatever happened to watching only two people dance, not 22?

I agree.  Seems to me that in the early seasons of DWTS they didn't bring out so many extras until later in the season (I might be remembering this wrong).  It's distracting to have so many dancers on the floor with the celebrity.  I wish they'd wait until later in the season when the celebrities have a little more experience and confidence before putting on the high-production numbers around them.  YMMV.

[Brynnjk]

12 hours ago, ChitChat said:

Wikipedia gives a pretty good run-down of his life, if you're interested.  I've always liked Frankie.  He was hilarious on Malcolm in the Middle.  I love his attitude and love of DWTS.  He's a joy to watch, IMO.  I hate that he's had the health issues to deal with.  That's got to be tough, but he seems rather resilient.  His attitude about the whole thing is very upbeat.

This.  It's clear that everyone has picked their faves and are now fiercely defending them which is natural.  I used to be that passionate.  I remember the early days of SYTYCD and the endless fierce debates on TWOP.  But now I just try to relax re these types of shows.  Clearly the judging always has an agenda, it is a reality show after all, but if, at the end of the day, I've seen some fun dances and gotten to know a little bit more about the performers, I count it as a win.  I want to enjoy the shows I watch.  I love Frankie's sheer enthusiasm and joy at the whole process and his realistic assessment that yes he sucked during the troll dance but nailed it this week.  I love Jordan's fluidity and performance ability.  He is lovely to watch.  As the parent of a professional theater actress who is cast many times based on her dancing ability, I can realistically assess the talent the various stars show.  And yes, Frankie isn't in any way as talented as Jordan.  But I love watching them both.  They entertain me and they seem like nice guys.  And that's a win/win for me.   

[truthaboutluv]

6 hours ago, Bridget said:

I would give a kidney to train with Artem or Sasha for eight hours a day during a season! I shake my head sometimes during the show and think "what the hell did they do all week? They sure as shit didn't learn a routine with a freakin' professional dancer. They definitely didn't practice their steps while brushing their teeth! They didn't hum the music in the shower to get in sync with an unfamiliar tune or song." It almost feels like a huge waste of the pro's time when they bust their arses to choreograph a routine, work with staging/lights, costume dept, make up dept, teach the routine to their partner during their week long practice and the celeb busts out something along the lines of what Wynonna Judd, Master P, Tom DeLay and Barbara Corcoran did: make it look like they never spent a minute in rehearsal! I know not everyone is a dancer, but there are some folks who have literally walked on the floor instead of dancing on it. I'm not saying Frankie's a "walker" versus a "dancer", but at this point, he should have figured out a way to get out of his head, combat his stress and show everyone how hard he is working because I just don't see it on my TV.

Or some people, no matter how much they try are just bad dancers. Not to mention that some people choke from nerves when they go live. There have been countless celebrities throughout the years where the Pros state how good they were in rehearsals but as soon as the live show came, they would tense up, freeze, forget steps and essentially choke. Because when you're doing something that's not natural to you and then doing it with camera lights all in your face, an audience of almost 200 people and the knowledge that millions are watching, it can be incredibly daunting. All that being said, YMMV but it's simply just not serious. Some people will be awful, some okay and some great. None of them will be perfect ballroom dancers. This is the 25th season of this show and what its 12th year on air? None of this stuff is new or different. I say it all the time but this show is simply not that serious. They win some tacky trophy and a nice check and everyone moves on the day after. 

Edited November 2, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[boyznkatz]

5 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

 

I don’t really care about the celebs’ personalities unless they’re being outright assholes because I watch this show for the dancing. I vote for the celebs who perform their dances well. I usually fast forward through all of the intro packages, rehearsal footage, and judging because none of that really interests me. 

But I agree that if (and I’m only saying IF because I am not assuming that any of these celebs are hiding shady pasts) there is anything in Frankie’s past that’s bad, why should he feel obligated to bring it up on DWTS?

This isn’t Celebrity Rehab so no one HAS to share any of their skeletons if they don’t want to. No one forced Nick Lachey to talk about his divorce from Jessica Simpson. No one is going to make Terrell talk about getting into a fistfight in the training room, spitting on another player, or his overdose. No one made Derek Fisher talk about his DUI, his stalker, or getting into a physical altercation with his former teammate. The celebs aren’t required to rehash every mistake they’ve ever made just because they’re learning how to waltz and foxtrot on tv. 

I agree. I watch for the dancing and don't care about anyone's history or personality. However, this is a reality show and most casual viewers care. It is difficult for someone with a canned personality to win unless they have a built in fanbase like Meryl Davis or Kristi Yamaguchi.