S04.E05: I Love Her

[Bort]

Quote

Bonnie’s suspicions about Annalise’s big case drive her to surprising lengths to get answers, while flashbacks reveal the genesis of the two women’s long and complicated history; and the flash forward reveals the shocking whereabouts of one of the Keating 4.

[helenamonster]

On 10/25/2017 at 3:00 PM, kariyaki said:

Quote

while flashbacks reveal the genesis of the two women’s long and complicated history

I'm stoked, y'all.

[Neurochick]

Damn.

And WTF Asher!

[truthaboutluv]

Wow, the writers are really on a mission to make Laurel the most unlikable person on this show, and as I've always noted, that's saying something since it's a show filled with murderers. So let's see, first she lays around fucking Frank with her big ass pregnant belly that she says is Wes', the guy she's so broken up over and demanding justice for, because that's not icky. All the while demanding and expecting Michaela and now Oliver to potentially screw over an amazing career opportunity for the both of them, especially after all the shit they've all been through. Then we find out that lo and behold she did fuck Frank the night he spent at her place and lied to Wes about it. Then she acts all righteous and offended when Frank questions the possibility of the baby being his because according to her it was the single biggest mistake of her life and how dare he bring it up.

Oh but apparently the huge mistake wasn't enough to not go back to fucking him on the regular because she's oh so horny. Oh and this while we all had to put up with her over the top grieving girlfriend routine over Wes, acting like Connor was some evil monster simply for not admitting that he found Wes already dead. Man, at this point, I almost don't even care where the baby is since I hate Laurel so much. I'm also now convinced that the baby really is Frank's since I see no other reason for the writers to drop that bombshell that they did sleep together last season. Her reaction to Frank's asking if the baby is his also lets me know that Laurel herself really doesn't know, since she was sleeping with Wes too at the time. It's obvious that after Wes was murdered, Laurel convinced herself the baby was his as part of her dramatic grieving girlfriend narrative. Not saying that was consciously her reason for doing it but it's how it comes across.

Wow Bonnie and Annalise have a fucked up history. I mean we've all suspected as much since we've seen hints and signs of it almost from the start of the show but damn tonight was fascinating. Interesting that the therapist figured out who Bonnie really was so quickly. Wonder where things will go from there. And now Asher seems to be slowly losing his mind. His insecurity over not having an internship and feeling like a loser is already plaguing at him and it's going to make his imagination go all over the place with the reasons Michaela may be lying to him. Curious to see where that's going and why he's in a jail cell. We know he didn't hurt Michaela and Oliver's fine. More and more it's not looking good for poor Tegan. 

I knew as soon as Connor showed up at Annalise's that she would get him to help her with her class action lawsuit because she's right, she needs help and Connor really needs to get off his ass and do something. Okay he dropped out because he's going through his whole emotional stuff but sitting around an apartment doing nothing is bound to just make him even crazier, as evidenced by tonight. And once again - why is Nate still on this show? Like his role seems to have officially become dropping some sage words on Bonnie and Annalise and then dramatically walking away. The hell? 

Much as Oliver got on my shit list after last season, I did laugh when he was adamantly against helping with breaking into Tegan's computer because he liked the firm so much because they have snacks and heated toilets. Seriously, Oliver needs to hold onto his heated toilets and Michaela her Louboutins and tell Laurel do her shit her damn self. On a side note though, Aja could not walk very well in those heels. Sort of killed the whole boss bitchness of the moment. 

Edited October 27, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[rollacoaster]

Whoa! That was HEAVY!

It was so refreshing to see Viola Davis portray a moment of unabashed joy. I was devastated right along with her as Bonnie unravelled her lawsuit. 

I am late to the HTGAWM party. I watched briefly in the first season, and stopped after the scene where it appeared Annalise was being forcibly held down during sex. I had no idea about Annalise and Bonnie's tortured relationship. Seeing how it all began was fascinating. Anybody think Bonnie and Annalise might join forces?

I don't even get the how and why of Laurel's behavior. Michaela is nuts for putting her budding career on the line for her. THEM SHOES, THO'! She ain't ready for them. Be damned if Michaela's boyfriend doesn't have her number. 

Edited October 27, 2017 by rollacoaster

[stonehaven]

• Damn Viola continues to be the best thing on my TV each week....the rest..eh..until the end....wow..Asher...but Laurel needs to just shut up...

[Annber03]

5 minutes ago, rollacoaster said:

It was so refreshing to see Viola Davis portray a moment of unabashed joy. I was devastated right along with her as Bonnie unravelled her lawsuit.

Agreed. 

Everything with Annalise and Bonnie tonight was just...dang. The scenes with Annalise trying to question Bonnie about her accusations were heartbreaking and unsettling, and Bonnie trying to come to terms with the warped nature of her relationship with Annalise towards the end. It's moments like that that show why I've always liked and been interested in Bonnie. There's just something about that vulnerable side of her that gets to me (I always compare her to Norma from "Bates Motel", they have some similar personality traits). 

And that flash forward with Asher crying. WTF?! So anxious to learn more about that. Be interesting to see how he confronts Michaela on her whole "lying to him" thing. 

I'm also quite intrigued to see how Annalise and Connor working together will play out. I'm glad she's making him get involved in something-I completely agree he needs to get up and get motivated again. 

Edited October 27, 2017 by Annber03

[Lady Calypso]

That was good. I love that we explored Annalise/Bonnie's relationship in depth. I thought Liza Weil did a phenomenal job in the therapy scenes. I think a lot of Bonnie's backstory was briefly mentioned, but it was good to have it all coherently put together in this episode, and it explains why Bonnie feels so close to Annalise. I am surprised that Isaac figured out Bonnie so quickly, mostly because of that flashforward of her alias being in his phone. Also the fact that he got so irrationally upset over it, and I think it's more than conflict of interest.

So, Asher/Michaela are heading for a rocky path, with her lying to him and him catching her in it. Long gone are the days where Asher was on the outs and blissfully unaware. I'm actually glad that we might get less comedic Asher for a while. They default him to the clown of the group too often, so I'm always good with a little more Matt McGorry stretching his acting chops. Thinking about that flashforward, my first thought was that he really did kill Simon and that had to be proof....but maybe he would be that hysterically upset if he did end up killing Tegan or something. I guess assuming that he actually did it. 

Urg...Laurel and Frank. And of course they slept together that one time that makes him a candidate for the baby daddy. What was Laurel going to do if Wes was still alive and the baby came out white? I mean, sure, she might have been able to try to explain away genetics to Wes, but then Frank would have most definitely gotten involved in finding out the true parentage. 

I....I am actually so, so excited for this Annalise/Connor teamup. Jack is by far my favourite actor of the Keating 4 now and his few scenes with Annalise have always been riveting to watch. Never did I expect this to happen, but here we are, and I'm looking forward to it, especially since he already has his boyfriend lying about his activities. Now, Connor did some lying with what he was doing on that dating app, which I'd hope is another strike against their relationship lasting...but I'm afraid of them getting married by the end of the season. They have almost done a good job at breaking up couples and keeping them apart...well, until Frank/Laurel happened again. 

[Annber03]

3 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Also the fact that he got so irrationally upset over it, and I think it's more than conflict of interest.

Yes! That was an interesting reaction from him.

Quote

I'm actually glad that we might get less comedic Asher for a while. They default him to the clown of the group too often, so I'm always good with a little more Matt McGorry stretching his acting chops. 

I'd be all for this, too. The moments when he's been able to show his serious (and sometimes creepy/ruthless) side really gave his character some fascinating complexity.

Quote

Urg...Laurel and Frank. And of course they slept together that one time that makes him a candidate for the baby daddy. What was Laurel going to do if Wes was still alive and the baby came out white? I mean, sure, she might have been able to try to explain away genetics to Wes, but then Frank would have most definitely gotten involved in finding out the true parentage. 

Yeah, suffice to say I'm not wild about this turn of events. I actually liked Wes and Laurel together, I thought they gave each other some much needed stability, so this new reveal messing that up...eh. 

Meant to reply to this earlier, too...

19 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

On a side note though, Aja could not walk very well in those heels. Sort of killed the whole boss bitchness of the moment. 

LOL, yeah, it was hard not to notice her wobbling about in them. 

[Dee]

Tonight's episode was Liza Weil's Emmy reel.

[HunterHunted]

8 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Urg...Laurel and Frank. And of course they slept together that one time that makes him a candidate for the baby daddy. What was Laurel going to do if Wes was still alive and the baby came out white? I mean, sure, she might have been able to try to explain away genetics to Wes, but then Frank would have most definitely gotten involved in finding out the true parentage. 

I'm so over Laurel. I'm over her nonsense that seems to endanger everyone, but her. I'm sick of her using people. I'm done. And I think she's an asshole for continuing to have sex with Frank. I do have to provide some clarification about the baby appearing White. Laurel is a White Latina. Wes is half Black and half White. There's a decent chance that the kid would appear to be White even if Wes is his parent. Jessica Alba has a Mexican American father. Her husband is half Black. They have a White appearing daughter with red hair. I don't know that Frank would rock the boat about the kid's parentage. I think he's afraid of making proactive moves on his own because that's only made people hate him more.

[Hazel55]

My first thoughts: just when I thought my opinion of Laurel could not get any lower, it sinks down several more points. Ugh. It was pretty classless of her to do that to Wes.

One continuing problem that this episode made clear was this: due to the structural changes this season, some of the shows characters are blatantly no longer essential to the plot. And I couldn’t help but feel that in this episode, several characters either acted out of character or got shoehorned in “twists” to integrate them into the plot. The revelation that Frank might be Laurel’s babydaddy; Annalise’s sudden urge, after firing everyone, to hire connor (of all people) to help with her quest; Asher being locked in a jail cell—were any of these twists believable in terms of the past actions of these characters? Or were they simply a way to shoehorn certain characters who’ve been useless this season (Frank, Asher, Oliver, Connor) back into the action?

So, Annalise fired everyone. Great. It shook up the show, allowed the Keating four room to grow and acquire their independence, and gave Anaalise room for further development. But it also left the show with a surfeit of superfluous characters, some of whom I find completely likable and great, but whom I’d rather not see effing around with nothing to do.

Annalise (and her taking on of the justice system) is the center of the show. Meanwhile, Laurel’s search for Wes’s killer connects her to the main action (as insufferable as I’m finding her at this point.) Michaela’s new internship closely connects her with Laurel’s quest to find Wes’s killer, thus making her play an important role. And Oliver (I guess) remains somewhat useful in that he apparently remains the only tech with hacking abilities in town. (Never mind the fact that everyone calling Oliver for help hacking everything is beginning to strain credibility at this point. That’s another issue for another day.) Bonnie’s work at the DA’s office (and employment of Laurel) also connects her with the search for Wes’s killer, though it is unclear whose side she is going to choose at this point. And now that Connor’s been recruited to help Annalise, I guess he’s been shoehorned…erm, I mean, integrated… into the action at this point.

But almost everyone else is pointless. Asher has virtually nothing to do but compliment Michaela and show off has butt at this point. Nate, who has been pretty pointless since season two, also does virtually nothing but hang around the DA’s office obsessing over Annalise, something that does not really jive with his previous “decent guy” characterization. Frank, apparently Asher’s doppelgänger, has nothing to do but hang around a female who is important to the plot, Bonnie. Oh, and now they’re having him be the lover and possible babydaddy to another female essential to the plot, despite the fact that he’s still not contributing to the plot himself in any way.

And now, suddenly, in the past episode, all of these characters save the eternally useless Nate are brought into the action. However, was it done believably? Would Laurel, as we knew her in the past, have cheated with Frank on Wes, despite the fact that she truly loved the latter? Why in God’s name would Annalise go to any of her former associates for help, after working so hard to disassociate herself from all of them?  The only thing that possibly makes sense is Asher being in the jail cell, since we simply don’t know why he’s there at this point. I’ll keep an open mind, but I’m really struggling with the rest.
Anyway, good episode, with some excellent twists. However, I don’t really feel the episode revealed anything about Annalise, Bonnie, or there relationship that wasn’t revealed back in the late season two flashbacks. Furthermore, though I’m enjoying the show as much as ever, I can’t help but feel that there are some issues with plot structure and character integration that are leading to some increasingly unbelievable behavior by characters we’ve come to know over the past four seasons.

Edited October 27, 2017 by Hazel55

[possibilities]

I get that lying to Wes was bad. But if Laurel thinks that's worse than the way they disposed of Sam's body, or any number of other things that she's been part of, well... she really is this season's villain.

Oliver and Michaela are being really stupid. Guilt and grief make you do crazy things. Connor might be the sanest one of the bunch, actually. I love the idea of him and Annalise working together on reviving the class action.

I used to think they kept Nate around for eye candy, but he's not even shirtless this season. Clenching his jaw and growl whispering isn't enough.

The Bonnie-Annalise backstory was worth the wait. Isaac scared me a little when he flipped out on her. "You need a lot more help than I can give you"? Wow. It's one thing to say he can't be her therapist. It's a whole other totally unprofessional thing to react the way he did.

I officially have no idea what's going on with Asher in the jail. I hope it's a misdirect and he just got drunk and was picked up for disorderly conduct, and he's crying because he thinks Michaela is losing interest in him. Really don't want him to snap and kill someone again, and can't imagine any scenario where he has anything to do with Laurel's missing baby.

I hope no one is actually dead at the law firm. That was a lot of blood, but still... is it too much to ask that no one be dead?

But Oliver has terrible judgment. Last week with not respecting Connor's boundaries about his dads, and now buddying up to the guy who posted those posters about Annalise.

[tennisgurl]

Wow, the Bonnie and Annalise backstory was seriously intense. That scene between them on the witness stand was just brutal to behold. We have known Bonnies backstory for awhile, but seeing more of how its affected her, and what it meant for her strange but intense relationship with Annalise was totally worth the wait. Liza and Viola are just incredible, and this was them at the top of their game. 

Laurel...kind of sucks. Being all heartbroken and angry about the murder of Wes, while also boning a guy she has nothing but disdain for, apparently, doesn't look great, but finding out that she was screwing Frank while Wes was still around, and lied to him about it, and has no idea who the babies dad is? And being all angry at Frank for even asking if he could be the dad? That really puts a new spin on her whole widow act, doesn't it? Not that she didn't love Wes (and I did like them together), but she has been so judgmental of everyone who is saw as being involved in the murder, even people who really did nothing wrong, or being disrespectful towards Wes, when she was screwing around on him, and even after his death, she CONTINUES to screw the same guy, it makes her look pretty hypocritical. Maybe you could say she is so angry and revenge obsessed because she was projecting out of guilt, but it still doesn't make her look good. And then, why is she STILL with Frank? And this is a show where almost all the main characters have killed people, or covered up other peoples killings! 

Also, Michaela  and Oliver seriously need to cut the strings with laurel and not let her ruin their careers with her obsession. Not that Wes doesn't deserve justice, but Laurel badgering her friends into getting involved in something super dangerous that could ruin their careers or lives, while shes just off boning Frank, is just shitty. Keep your warm toilets and fabulous shoes! 

Very interested in seeing Connor and Annalise teaming up on the lawsuit. I really like their relationship, and I think it will be great to see Jack and Viola play off each other. Connor needs something to do, badly, and I think this could help him find something that he is actually passionate about. Being alone just screwing around was just making Connor crazier, and he is rather mentally unwell in general, so having something to do is a good call. Of course, people who work with Annalise dont always turn out so well, but who knows? 

Asher!?! What did you do? I dont think he actually killed anyone, but something definitely went down. Maybe Michaela was crying in the flashforward because the guy Asher attacked had died, and now Ashers life is ruined? I am glad that it looks like Asher is getting a meaty story. 

[Dee]

When did Michaela begin considering Wes a friend? When he was alive, she disliked him nearly as much as Connor.

[blackwing]

I thought this was a particularly boring episode, but that's because it was heavily focused on Bonnie.  And I don't give a rat's ass about Bonnie.  I'm here for Michaela, Connor, Asher, and Viola Davis.   And there wasn't enough of the first three tonight.

Don't care about Bonnie.  Don't care about Nate.  Don't care about Laurel.  Don't care about Laurel with Frank.

The two best moments of the episode were 1) when Tegan exuberantly encouraged Michaela to "try them on!" and had this huge smile.  It was so refreshing to see Iron Lady Tegan laughing and smiling.  And 2) Annalise getting her groove on when she got that phone call from Claudia.  So awesome.  I admit to having a moment like that.  I was in an awful job and got a call saying I got the new job I had wanted.  Went immediately to the restroom, was overcome by the moment and just started busting a move right there, so happy and without a care in the world.   Unfortunately for Annalise her joy was short lived, but still.

Is Simon gay?  Have we always known that?   Why else would he be calling Oliver "girl" and going out with him to "Cocktails and Catan"?

I'm thinking Asher accidentally killed Simon at the firm?  Oliver and Simon are close, that's why Oliver looked grief stricken.  Simon finds out that Oliver and Michaela hacked Tegan's computer, but he gets blamed for it and gets fired so he shows up there late at night with a gun.  Asher shows up, he sees Simon about to shoot Michaela, there's a struggle, gun goes off.  Asher tells Michaela to leave, so that's why we see her at the hospital.

[tennisgurl]

5 minutes ago, blackwing said:

The two best moments of the episode were 1) when Tegan exuberantly encouraged Michaela to "try them on!" and had this huge smile.  It was so refreshing to see Iron Lady Tegan laughing and smiling.

Yeah I really loved that, and I thought it was a great little moment for Tegan. We have mostly seen her as this tough, bad bitch lawyer lady, and it was great to see her smiling and laughing and being super happy for a young women she is mentoring. Plus, those shoes were fabulous!

[Jodie Landon]

1 hour ago, truthaboutluv said:

On a side note though, Aja could not walk very well in those heels. Sort of killed the whole boss bitchness of the moment. 

I read way too much into that walk. I thought it was an acting choice. I thought that they were trying to show that even with all her confidence Michaela is still just playing dress up. She wants to be Tegan (and even still, Annalise), but she just isn't at boss bitch level yet. 

 

1 hour ago, rollacoaster said:

It was so refreshing to see Viola Davis portray a moment of unabashed joy. I was devastated right along with her as Bonnie unravelled her lawsuit. 

I'm pretty sure that was the first time we'e ever seen Annalise dance sober, and I was happy for her. I hate that Bonnie ruined it.

[Milaxx]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

I....I am actually so, so excited for this Annalise/Connor teamup. Jack is by far my favourite actor of the Keating 4 now and his few scenes with Annalise have always been riveting to watch. Never did I expect this to happen, but here we are, and I'm looking forward to it, especially since he already has his boyfriend lying about his activities. Now, Connor did some lying with what he was doing on that dating app, which I'd hope is another strike against their relationship lasting...but I'm afraid of them getting married by the end of the season. They have almost done a good job at breaking up couples and keeping them apart...well, until Frank/Laurel happened again. 

....

For reasons I can't fully articulate, the "relationship" between these two has always grossed me out, even before the infidelity angle came along.  In addition to the fact that there was initially a great power imbalance between the two (with Laurel as Analise's grunt and Frank as a higher ranking, significantly older man), they've always both seemed to using each other in disturbing ways. It always seemed to me that Laurel was a rich girl who saw Frank as her "bit of rough," fun for being uneducated and less cultured than her usual B.F.'s, but not a serious long term love interest. He, meanwhile, seemed to view her as a sex object/ unattainable rich girl to be seduced and subsequently "humbled." Even when he "fell in love" with her, it seemed to me his feelings weren't much deeper than a lust for her body.

And now that Bonnie's in the picture, the whole thing is 10 times creepier. Frank is heartlessly betraying Bonnie;  and Laurel is using Frank as her human "meat stick" due to post anti deppressant horniness (or... something. Kinda having trouble even listening to Laurel's drone, self pitying monologues at this point.) Just... no thanks to this whole "relationship", at this point.

And since I'm kind of on a role being rude, I must say I loathe Laurel this season. Yes, she's been through hell. but unlike all of the other Keating kids, she has yet to truly develop or grow as a character. Connor, Michaela, and Asher have both deepened and changed trhoughout the course of the show; now all three are complex, interesting characters, which makes them continue to be compelling, even when they are acting whiny, rude or insufferable. (Michaela and Asher in the past; Connor this season.) Yet Laurel has barely changed at all from episode one, remaining the vaguely nice, vaguely pretty, vaguely good, vaguely liberal guilt young woman she's been from episode one. Everything we now know about her-- she's from a privileged background; suffers from guilt from said background; has a corrupt criminal father; claims to care about social justice while rarely caring about clients and remaining stunningly self involved-- have been true since the first few episodes. The only thing that's changed in the fourth season is that she is now slightly whinier and self pitying; but this hardly makes for an interesting character. 

I was beyond grossed out. Last week's  car sex was squcky enough.  Frank is staying in Bonnie's house and screwing Laurel while she's at work? I just hope/pray he's staying in the guest bedroom and not doing the deed in her bed. I had nearly talked myself into believing Laurel & Wes were "wuv twu wiv", but now I think her whole weeping widow routine was just guilt. I'm also back to questioning if she's really pregnant. It's odd that that AK brought up the subject of hysterical pregnancy in that young Bonnie flashback. My guess is she had an abortion because it was Frank's and then had a breakdown over her Wes guilt.

So Michaela gets Oliver a job at C & G so he can help her hack them t find out about Antares Technology. I'm still unclear on how proving her dad's company is dirty will prove he had Wes killed. Somehow I think Asher's temper is why he ends up in jail because he thinks Michaela is cheating on him. (sidebar - Has Asher ever been to Wes's apt?)

Connor just turned himself into the new Bonnie.  Yay! for not sexing away your feelings, but Boo! for getting back in cahoots with AK.

Bonnie called her Mae as in AnnMae, AK's real name. Didn't Isaac break confidentiality by divulging AK's name? What if the point of Simon is he's the baby Bonnie had when she was 14? It would explain the anger/resentment at not being one of AKs chosen ones.

33 minutes ago, Dee said:

When did Michaela begin considering Wes a friend? When he was alive, she disliked him nearly as much as Connor.

They really weren't that close. They said as much in one of the flashbacks last season. I think she's doing it more for Laurel and also guilt for blaming Wes so they could get out of the mess they were in last season.

18 minutes ago, blackwing said:

...

Is Simon gay?  Have we always known that?   Why else would he be calling Oliver "girl" and going out with him to "Cocktails and Catan"?

I'm thinking Asher accidentally killed Simon at the firm?  Oliver and Simon are close, that's why Oliver looked grief stricken.  Simon finds out that Oliver and Michaela hacked Tegan's computer, but he gets blamed for it and gets fired so he shows up there late at night with a gun.  Asher shows up, he sees Simon about to shoot Michaela, there's a struggle, gun goes off.  Asher tells Michaela to leave, so that's why we see her at the hospital.

Yes he's gay. He teased Connor last season about Oliver when they were broken up. I also got the impression he tried to hit on Oliver or liked Oliver last season and never did anything about it.  He offered to help Oliver when they were working on a case last season. Connor noticed enough to ask if Oliver was seeing Connor at Wes's bday party. Simon shot u o my list of suspects as to who is dead/injured at C & G this week.

[twoods]

Fuck you writers for crapping all over Wes yet again, even after he's dead. He died a horrible death, his girlfriend has a vengeful vendetta against his killer, and now it turns out that she slept with Frank while they were together. All this retconning is making my head hurt.

Annalise and Bonnie made my heart hurt.

Poor Asher. Is he going to accidentally kill someone else on this show?

[Milaxx]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

Now, Connor did some lying with what he was doing on that dating app, which I'd hope is another strike against their relationship lasting...but I'm afraid of them getting married by the end of the season.

Connor didn't lie to Oliver or AK. Oliver knew he was on humpr fooling around and did't think much of it. Even though he made the date with the guy, he went to AK instead. As much as a I am pro Coliver, I don't see them getting married anytime soon. I think the writer's want to get more mileage out of exploring the ups and downs of the relationship.

14 minutes ago, twoods said:

Poor Asher. Is he going to accidentally kill someone else on this show?

I think so.

Edited October 27, 2017 by Milaxx

[NUguy514]

4 hours ago, Hazel55 said:

I’m not sure whether I fully buy Oliver’s “suicidal impulses”—was this a plausible character development, or simply a way to shoehorn Oliver in to the plot in a way that did not involve some sort of hacking? Because on the one hand, yeah, he is one of the more empathetic and decent characters on this show. But on the other, he is also one of the more mentally healthy, and seemed fine as late as last episode.  

One continuing problem that this episode made clear was this: due to the structural changes this season, some of the shows characters are blatantly no longer essential to the plot. And I couldn’t help but feel that in this episode, several characters either acted out of character or got shoehorned in “twists” to integrate them into the plot. Oliver’s sudden suicidal urges; the revelation that Frank might be Laurel’s babydaddy; Annalise’s sudden urge, after firing everyone, to hire connor (of all people) to help with her quest; Asher being locked in a jail cell—were any of these twists believable in terms of the past actions of these characters? Or were they simply a way to shoehorn certain characters who’ve been useless this season (Frank, Asher, Oliver, Connor) back into the action?

I'm confused: do you mean Connor's "suicidal impulses"?  If so, those aren't sudden at all.  He's struggled with guilt and depression throughout the run of the show and seemed nearly suicidal until a few episodes ago when he confessed his guilt to Laurel.

Speaking of whom, I am done with Laurel.  What a fucking dickhead.  Do your own dirty work, asshole, and stop trying to ruin Michaela's and Oliver's cool new gig by getting them to do it for you.  Furthermore, you just suck in general, girl bye.

Oliver, hon, you're also a dickhead.  Simon is the worst; you know this.  Like, between that and having no respect for your fiancé's wish for distance from his dad(s), what the fuck are you doing?  I guess I shouldn't be surprised since you've been doing this shit for over a season now.  Maybe Connor's dad Joe McCoy was right that you aren't good for Connor; you certainly don't deserve him (and I can't believe I'm saying that; it's a total reversal from the first season).

Asher, babe, I need you to stop killing people, OK?  (And you realllllly better not have killed Connor.  Simon is fine to kill, though.)  Michaela will have to break up with you, and that will give me a sad.

Nate is not naked enough to justify his continued presence on this show.

Liza Weil was truly fantastic tonight.

Team Connor and Annalise?

[Star Aristille]

6 hours ago, rollacoaster said:

It was so refreshing to see Viola Davis portray a moment of unabashed joy. I was devastated right along with her as Bonnie unravelled her lawsuit. 

So was I.  I had to do everything not to wake up my parents by yelling a long, loud, anguished "Noooooooo!" when I realized what Bonnie had done.  Annalise was finally doing some good for the first time in such a long time, and Bonnie did everything she could to ruin it just out of some hurt feelings.  Shame on you, Bonnie.  Fucking shame on you.

1 hour ago, NUguy514 said:

Oliver, hon, you're also a dickhead.  Simon is the worst; you know this.

I get it.  Everyone hates Simon.  (I still don't, though.)  Doesn't mean Oliver has to.  He has the right to have whatever friends he wants.

1 hour ago, NUguy514 said:

Speaking of whom, I am done with Laurel.  What a fucking dickhead.  Do your own dirty work, asshole, and stop trying to ruin Michaela's and Oliver's cool new gig by getting them to do it for you.  Furthermore, you just suck in general, girl bye.

Four words that she once said (or, rather, shouted): "Go cry somewhere else."  As good of a job as Karla did with that rant, the moment she made said rant and ended it with those four words, I had a very deep, very bad feeling that they were going to totally wreck Laurel over Wes, and sure enough, they're doing an active job of doing that.  She's completely lost herself in Wes and is all but forcing Michaela and Oliver to lose themselves in him, too.  And then, while I didn't care one way or another about Wes, she actually cheats on him with Frank while possibly pregnant with his child?  Screw you, lady.

As for the episode itself, I really wanna see what lands Asher in jail.  No way he could kill anybody.  Just no way.

Still, good episode.

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, Star Aristille said:

As for the episode itself, I really wanna see what lands Asher in jail.  No way he could kill anybody.  Just no way.

Well, it's not like this would be the first time. He's already killed DA Smugface with his car.

I don't know if I want him to have killed someone or not. It seems obvious that he would and now with the flashforward being 2 weeks away in their time, which means it's not much farther away in episodes, I don't think I want another twist of him doing something ELSE, and have another revelation about another suspect in jail. So, I'm going to take the show at face value and believe that Asher is the suspect that Bonnie's talking about, and he is in jail for killing Simon or Tegan. I'm now betting it's Simon. Maybe Simon catches on to Michaela/Oliver and threatens to take their asses to jail himself, Asher shows up, as pissed as he is for lying, he defends Michaela, somehow kills Simon with a gun or whatever, and that is why Michaela is upset in the flashforward. Not only would Simon be dead, but her boyfriend would be going to jail. 

Though again, how the hell does this all connect with Laurel's baby? And is Connor with Annalise, then, and they have said baby? Do these two events have to be connected? I think they should, because why should I care about two separate events in a flashforward that will end at the midseason finale? Plus, we see Bonnie go from Annalise's place with the blood on the elevator to Caplan and Gold, so why would she be working two different cases at once?

[truthaboutluv]

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Well, it's not like this would be the first time. He's already killed DA Smugface with his car.

This. I read that comment a little confused seeing as we've already seen Asher very coldly and deliberately back his car over and kill someone. 

Edited October 27, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[Hazel55]

10 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Wow, the writers are really on a mission to make Laurel the most unlikable person on this show, and as I've always noted, that's saying something since it's a show filled with murderers. 

While to my mind Frank, pyschopathic murderer of 21 year old pregnant girls, will always be the most despicable character on this show, Laurel continues to get worse and worse with each episode. 

10 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

And once again - why is Nate still on this show? Like his role seems to have officially become dropping some sage words on Bonnie and Annalise and then dramatically walking away. The hell? 

Nate's uselessness (which I noted in my previous post) is almost comical at this point. He was relevant in season one; tenuously connected in season two. In season three he started out as Annalise's dull love interest with very little to do, only to disintegrate into Analise's ex with absolutely nothing to do. This season he literally pops up once or twice per episode, only to do one of three things: a. brood over Annalise; b. do something small to "betray" Annalise in order to foil her latest plan; or c. give Annalise some small piece of help or advice to help her latest plan. Never mind that these things don't really go together-- so long as Nate gets a scene. And he's not even shirtless anymore. Just kill him off already. 

8 hours ago, twoods said:

He died a horrible death, his girlfriend has a vengeful vendetta against his killer, and now it turns out that she slept with Frank while they were together.

Unfortunately, this is all pretty much in character for Laurel. Remember back in the first season, when she had her kind, loyal, supportive boyfriend, with whom she was fairly serious? She cheated on him with Frank, despite claiming to despise Frank and all he stood for. (Apparently sex with the beard was just too good to pass up.) After sleeping with both men for a while, she eventually broke up with the first guy for Frank, breaking his heart in the process. 

What made the whole thing so hysterically funny was that when Laurel found out that Frank had a girlfriend himself all along, she became indignant, and broke up with Frank self- righteously. The amount of selfishness, self indulgence, disregard for others, blatant hypocrisy, and lack of overall sincerity is something that's characterized Laurel from the first season, if one looks closely enough. It's just that in the past, she hasn't directly hurt anyone that we, the viewers, personally care about; and she has been tougher and all together less whiny.

Edited October 27, 2017 by Hazel55

[truthaboutluv]

Quote

Would Laurel, as we knew her in the past, have cheated with Frank on Wes, despite the fact that she truly loved the latter? Why in God’s name would Annalise go to any of her former associates for help, after working so hard to disassociate herself from all of them? How did Connor go from reasonably happy to contemplating suicide in the space of a single episode? The only thing that possibly makes sense is Asher being in the jail cell, since we simply don’t know why he’s there at this point. I’ll keep an open mind, but I’m really struggling with the rest.

YMMV but none of that read as so inconsistent to what we've seen from the start of the series. Laurel may have loved Wes, but she did have a relationship and seemingly real feelings for Frank as well. Remember she spent the whole summer, after he disappeared, trying to find him. So I don't find it so unbelievable that when he came to her place that night, vulnerable and alone, they slept together. It was the reason many viewers speculated that they did last season but she denied it when Wes asked. And as I recall, there were some posters on here who still didn't believe nothing happened. 

Annalise going to Connor makes sense because she clearly needs help but she's broke, so she can't afford to hire help. Connor coming over to her place proved that much as he bitches and gripes about her and on some level truly does despise her, like all these twisted people, he also still has this weird attachment to her. And he's clearly floundering and having him help with something that could do some good is not a bad idea. It's just that nothing on this show ever remains so simple. As for Connor's suicidal thoughts, that is very consistent with what we've seen of the character since Sam's murder. Sure, he's had moments and flashes of being happy with Oliver, but Connor has been an emotional wreck since Sam's murder and he's never been the same since. And how was he reasonably happy before this episode when he dropped out of law school and was seemingly drinking, partying and self pitying his days away. 

And regarding Asher, well as others have stated, Asher has already murdered someone, so seeing him in a jail cell, hardly rings false to me in any way. 

 

Quote

I'm also back to questioning if she's really pregnant. It's odd that that AK brought up the subject of hysterical pregnancy in that young Bonnie flashback. My guess is she had an abortion because it was Frank's and then had a breakdown over her Wes guilt.

We saw her naked belly tonight when she and Frank were creepily getting it on. I can't imagine Frank is so dumb as to not recognize a fake belly.

 

Quote

I'm still unclear on how proving her dad's company is dirty will prove he had Wes killed. 

It won't prove he killed Wes but it will get him arrested and that's her end goal. She said that if they can't get him for killing Wes, which she realized would be difficult, they could at least get him locked up another way. Not that I disagree that this is really a stupid plan that's going to screw everyone else over. 

Edited October 27, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[Lovecat]

18 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

We saw her [Laurel's] naked belly tonight when she and Frank were creepily getting it on. I can't imagine Frank is so dumb as to not recognize a fake belly.

But if they're going for a hysterical pregnancy storyline, then Laurel is really convinced she's still pregnant, and her body is manifesting the symptoms.  That's the definition of a hysterical pregnancy. 

[bantering]

Er, are we supposed to like Laurel?

I'm beginning to think we're not supposed to.

Edited October 27, 2017 by bantering

[blackwing]

I agree that Laurel is having a hysterical pregnancy.  There's no reason why the term would have been so conveniently brought up during the flashbacks to the councilman's trial from 15 years ago. 

Still no clues about the blood in Annalise's apartment building though.  How many weeks until winter finale?  Seems like the flash forward gets advanced by 1/2 week per episode... so, 4?

[Milaxx]

8 hours ago, Star Aristille said:

As for the episode itself, I really wanna see what lands Asher in jail.  No way he could kill anybody.  Just no way.

 

4 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

This. I read that comment a little confused seeing as we've already seen Asher very coldly and deliberately back his car over and kill someone. 

3 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Quote

I'm also back to questioning if she's really pregnant. It's odd that that AK brought up the subject of hysterical pregnancy in that young Bonnie flashback. My guess is she had an abortion because it was Frank's and then had a breakdown over her Wes guilt.

We saw her naked belly tonight when she and Frank were creepily getting it on. I can't imagine Frank is so dumb as to not recognize a fake belly.

Joining the chorus here. Asher has not killed. His murder wasn't even in the midst of some shoving match gone horribly wrong. He backed over her, calmly called Bonnie and sat there waiting. It's also been firmly established that Asher has a temper.

 

As for Laurel, a hysterical pregnancy can have physical manifestations.

 

Bonnie's story also reminds me of that case where the man was keeping a bunch of women in his basement and woman no#1 turned him in.(ep1.11).  Turned out one of the women had gotten pregnant and she told everyone the baby died and she got rid of her but really she was hiding the child in her aunts cabin. I bet Bonnie's dad, knocked her out and they out the baby up for adoption. These were city councilmen. They could have connections with child protective services.

Edited October 27, 2017 by Milaxx

[harmfulhazards]

5 hours ago, Hazel55 said:

Nate's uselessness (which I noted in my previous post) is almost comical at this point. He was relevant in season one; tenuously connected in season two. In season three he started out as Annalise's dull love interest with very little to do, only to disintegrate into Analise's ex with absolutely nothing to do. This season he literally pops up once or twice per episode, only to do one of three things: a. brood over Annalise; b. do something small to "betray" Annalise in order to foil her latest plan; or c. give Annalise some small piece of help or advice to help her latest plan. Never mind that these things don't really go together-- so long as Nate gets a scene. And he's not even shirtless anymore. Just kill him off already. 

 

My guess is that it is supposed to represent that he is upset with Annalise and wants to quit, but deep down he is so strongly in love that he can't help himself getting drawn to her again and again. Somewhat like what is happening with Bonnie. The only difference is that the writers actually bothered to give Bonnie a personality and history with Annalise that makes her feelings and actions understandable and relationship that is interesting to watch, even if messed up. Nothing we saw about Nate so far really warrants this kind of obsession, making his behavior not complex but inconsistent. If the previous iterations of this storyline are any indication, there should be shocking and totally unexpected plot twist soon enough where he becomes Annalise's boyfriend again with shirtless scenes and all that.

 

Is it bad that at this point I'd rather watch a spinoff about Annalise, Teagan and Michaela running off and opening a law firm together? Couldn't care less about the baby drama.

Edited October 27, 2017 by harmfulhazards

[wanderingstar]

Interesting episode. The origins of the Bonnie/Annalise relationship were as traumatic as I had suspected, but it was still good to get some insight into their dynamic. Based on what we saw of them in this episode, I doubt these two will ever truly be free of each other.

I'm glad Isaac figured out who Bonnie is. But what was up with his reaction? 

Connor and Annalise teaming up is intriguing. They have an interesting dynamic, so I am curious to see how they work together minus the rest of the K4.

Laurel has always been selfish and entitled, but she is rapidly turning into a cartoon character. This plan to take down her father is not very well thought out, not to mention It's putting Michaela and Oliver's tenuous fresh starts in jeopardy One of the things I liked about Laurel in previous seasons was her smarts, but all that seems like a distant memory now. Plus, the reunion with Frank is gross and drags down both characters.

So, we know where Asher is in the flash forward. But what about Connor and Annalise. Also, I hope that's not Teagen's blood on the floor at C&G.

Edited October 27, 2017 by Gillian Rosh

[helenamonster]

I've been waiting over three seasons for the Annalise and Bonnie Origin Story and they did not disappoint. Holy crap. I know this is The Viola Davis Show but Liza Weil more than holds her own, and I hate that she's constantly overlooked every Emmy season. Maybe this will be the year? Please? Also, I hope we don't have to wait another three seasons for the flashback that shows us where it started to go sour. I still have a feeling it had something to do with Sam.

This show is trying to get me to hate Laurel but I can't, I won't! I hate that they're piling crappy twist on top of crappy twist with her story right now. Did Karla Souza kick Pete Nowalk's dog, what the hell is going on? While I hate the revelation that she did sleep with Frank and he could be the baby daddy, it does explain a lot of her behavior since Wes died. I think she's just so unbelievably consumed with guilt that she's put on the grieving widow act to a) divert everyone's attention from the fact that she's a trifling harlot and b) doing everything she can to avenge Wes's death, hoping that if she can put her father away it'll make up for what she did. Because not only is she clearly guilty about cheating on him (and the guilt is definitely exacerbated by his death, as she lied about it and the last conversation they had was an argument about Frank), I think she feels guilty that her father was the one that killed him. Even though she had nothing directly to do with it and still doesn't know why it happened.

My question is though: why did Frank wait so long to ask? Was it because Wes had died and he didn't want to make the situation any messier?

I don't think Laurel is having a hysterical pregnancy (I did wonder though, when that was dropped into the trial in the flashback). Isn't that something an OB would have been able to detect by now? She's almost seven months along, as we're two in-show weeks away from catching up to the flashforward. Also, in the preview for next week, there was a scene with her in a doctor's office, and an ultrasound with a 3D image of a fetus on it in the background.

Asher in a jail cell, huh? After we've seen him catching Michaela in a lie? Someone definitely lost his temper again. Guess it remains to be seen if that loss in temper resulted in murder number two for him. I'm in line with a lot of others who think that him being in jail means either Simon or Tegan are dead. Please be Simon, Tegan is too awesome to lose so soon.

Why is Michaela lying to him about the Wes thing? He's not on the fringes of the group anymore, he's all in. Him knowing certainly wouldn't hurt anything.

Agreed that Annalise's unabashed joy was a delight to see. Wish it could have lasted longer. I'm intrigued about her and Connor teaming up. I still don't know what's going on in the flashforwards or how things are connected (they must be, because Bonnie visited both crime scenes), but is it possible that Annalise and Connor aren't even involved? It would be kind of different if maybe they were off in Harrisburg or something for the class action and had nothing to do with it.

Did I just not see correctly, or did the show mess up its timeline a little bit? On the document that Michaela and Oliver found, it was dated April 2016, which Laurel said would have been right before Trent Stockton died. But it's still early 2016 for the show; last week I appreciated the nod to continuity when Annalise wrote a check and dated it February 2016. This week's episode is a month later (Isaac said he'd been seeing Bonnie for a month, and we went from a month and half until the flashforward to two weeks until the flashforward) so it should be March 2016. Or maybe the document said 2015 and I misread.

[Milaxx]

I don't hate Laurel even though I find what the character is currently doing annoying and nasty. I also don't think PN is punishing Enoch or Karla. Most actors like playing the bad guy because it often gets them a chance to stretch their creative wings. They also often get more screen time. 

As for the hysterical pregnancy, unless they do an ultrasound and see there is no baby, the body actually mimics a pregnancy. It will grow and secret hormones and everything. I just think Laurel is lying to the K4 and possibly a bit deluded herself.  Group trauma aside I think Laurel is in the midst of a bit of a mental breakdown. Let's not forget her mother is mentally ill, so there is a heredity factor.

Frank is the king of self flagellation. I can easily seeing him not asking beforehand due to some of worthlessness, not wanting to interfere with the Wes/Laurel relationship. Now that Laurel has instigated this sexual relationship, perhaps he feels a need to ask.

As for the timeline. I think they may have caught u or nearly caught up to real time.  Let me double check and get back to this. It may be January 2017.

[helenamonster]

4 minutes ago, Milaxx said:

As for the timeline. I think they may have caught u or nearly caught up to real time.  Let me double check and get back to this. It may be January 2017.

They definitely haven't. Last week Annalise wrote a check and dated it February 2016. That was a month ago in show time, and they're still in the second semester of their second year. Plus if it was January 2017, then Laurel would have been pregnant (or faking a pregnancy) for over a year. I think someone in the production department just screwed up. The document should have been dated April 2015.

[Milaxx]

It may be December 2016 then. Wes's murder and midterms were year after the bonfire which occurs Thanksgivng-ish. There's a scene in season 3 where Oliver is on the computer job searching and another where he's googling Sam's murder/disappearance. I just need to find them and check. It's got to be after April 2016  and last season started in September. I'm scanning on netflix now.

Mmmm, they are playing this real close.

So far I've got the email regarding the slap from Barry Lewiston dated October 2015. 

Laurel's ICU chart the night of the fire list her age as 27 and the year of her birth as 1988. I think this means were still in 2015. Let's say midterms were in November/December. That puts us at late 2015.  The flashforwards started at 3mths ahead.  So maybe the season started at the beginning of the Spring semester in January/February. 3 mths ahead is March/April. That Trenton guy who died but Laurel's dad is using as a front to fund Denver's campaign dies in April 2016 . 

Laurel's says the Trent Stockton died under mysterious circumstances. 

The check AK writes for the file transcripts in 4.4 was dated 2/19/16

Connor's stepdad invites them down for Memorial Day weekend (last weekend in May)

Connor & Michaela find a cease & desist to Trent Stockton dated April 2, 2016.  "a week before he died" so March 26, 2016

I dunno. Math is not my strong suit. My best guess is 2016  late April/early May (ish) 

Edited October 28, 2017 by Milaxx

[Star Aristille]

11 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Well, it's not like this would be the first time. He's already killed DA Smugface with his car.

I completely forgot about that.  But still, after that, he wouldn't take another life, considering what that did to him.

[Milaxx]

15 minutes ago, Star Aristille said:

I completely forgot about that.  But still, after that, he wouldn't take another life, considering what that did to him.

It didn't do anything to him. He calmly sat there and waited for Bonnie, then helped her take that body and throw it off the roof to cover up the fact that he killed her. The only time he was upset was after his father died.

Edited October 27, 2017 by Milaxx

[Star Aristille]

Just now, Milaxx said:

It didn't do anything to him.

Given how shaken up and stone-faced he got after that, I disagree, but agree to disagree, I guess.

[Keepitmoving]

I'll say this, Asher is in jail, neatly in his suit, without a speck of blood on him; that's what stood out for me. I think every hair on his head looked to be in place too so I'm not sure whatever he did had anything to do with a lot of blood.

[Neurochick]

Asher was crying in jail and I thought there was dried blood on him, but I'm not sure.

I don't see Frank or Laurel as being awful.  Wes is dead; Frank isn't married to Bonnie.  I don't get what's "creepy" or "awful."  As I said, Wes is dead and Frank isn't married.  I'm not even sure what Frank and Bonnie are.  I think Bonnie is more in love with Annalise than with Frank; on second thought, both of them are in love with Annalise; in fact I think everybody's in love with her, Nate, Bonnie, Frank and maybe even Isaac; it's like everybody's torn between hating her and wanting her approval, wanting to kiss or, or smack that shit out of her.  

I realized that Annalise changed the direction of her life because of Bonnie.  They need to deal with the bond that they have.  

As for Laurel, what I don't like her doing is getting Oliver and Michaela to do her bidding.  Both of them should have told her "no" but hey, that was their choice.

[secnarf]

19 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Yeah I really loved that, and I thought it was a great little moment for Tegan. We have mostly seen her as this tough, bad bitch lawyer lady, and it was great to see her smiling and laughing and being super happy for a young women she is mentoring. Plus, those shoes were fabulous!

I read it totally differently. Maybe because we've only seen her tough persona so far, or because I'm so used to the manipulative Annalise (or both!), but I didn't trust her. It seemed a lot like Annalise's manipulation to me.

[Milaxx]

Fair enough. Awful may be the wrong word. I do find the current Frank & Laurel situation, let's say messy and a bit hypocritical. Hypocritical on Laurel's part because she keeps coming back to Frank. Hey, look, he may lay some serious pipe. {{shrug}}. He does something that makes Laurel cheat on her boyfriends. (Khan & Wes).  Her whole lashing out, weeping widow bit last season was probably part guilt, part grief. 

Spoiler

If the previews are to be believed in the flashback she finds out the baby is Frank's & has an abortion.

Frank is also hypocritical, perhaps to a lessor degree. Last season he's asking Bonnie run away with him, then dumping Bonnie & leaving her hanging. Overall messy because they both need to get their acts together and stop the collateral damage their "relationship" has on Bonnie & the K4.. Frank knows that Bonnie in particular would/will be hurt by all of this. I guess we're supposed to find the car sexy last week sexy, but it read as less than consensual. Covering someone's mouth saying "shut up and take it, it's just sex." is just not a good portrayal of lust in my eyes. I get this show is soapy drama. I'm not saying I'm not enjoying this season. In fact I find crazy acting Laurel quite entertaining. I even like horny Laurel, checking out Asher's bum. Oliver & Michaela playing Inspector Brown for Laurel? I'm fine with it.  The actual Frank/Laurel pairing this season? Not so enjoyable.

1 minute ago, secnarf said:

I read it totally differently. Maybe because we've only seen her tough persona so far, or because I'm so used to the manipulative Annalise (or both!), but I didn't trust her. It seemed a lot like Annalise's manipulation to me.

I agree. It made me wonder for the first time if she's being shady. Who buys their intern 1K shoes? Doesn't help that it made me think of the song lyrics. "These expensive, these is red bottomsThese is bloody shoes"

[Lady Calypso]

2 hours ago, Milaxx said:

It didn't do anything to him. He calmly sat there and waited for Bonnie, then helped her take that body and throw it off the roof to cover up the fact that he killed her. The only time he was upset was after his father died.

I don't think it didn't do anything to him. It's just that the show wanted to keep Asher as comedic relief so badly that they dropped the ball on it. As for his reaction, I attributed that to shock. As we've seen on this show, everyone has a different reaction to death. We've seen Wes and Annalise mostly calm at most of the deaths, though not unaffected, while people like Connor and Michaela have been crazy, emotional wrecks. It's actually fascinating, in a way, to see all these different types of reactions. 

2 hours ago, Neurochick said:

Asher was crying in jail and I thought there was dried blood on him, but I'm not sure.

I just rewatched. The whole scene of Asher in jail lasts about 5 seconds in total, but from what I could tell, there was no blood on him. What I did notice upon rewatch is that he's wearing a suit, which he wouldn't typically wear unless he was perhaps going to a work event with Michaela or some other reason for the professional attire. 

Also, I decided to rewatch the last episode's end scene. I knew they jumped ahead a bit, but I didn't realize they jumped ahead a full month between last episode and this one (last episode had the flashforward as 1.5 months later while this one is 2 weeks later). 

[possibilities]

4 hours ago, Star Aristille said:

I completely forgot about that.  But still, after that, he wouldn't take another life, considering what that did to him.

I think that this assumes he's rational and in control. But backing the car over Sinclair was impulsive and not considered. If he's the sort who loses it and does crazy things, he could do it again.

I don't have an opinion about whether he did or not, but I don't think it's impossible.

[Milaxx]

21 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I think that this assumes he's rational and in control. But backing the car over Sinclair was impulsive and not considered. If he's the sort who loses it and does crazy things, he could do it again.

I don't have an opinion about whether he did or not, but I don't think it's impossible.

I think those flashes of temper where he loses control (beating Connor, allowing Simon to provoke him at the job fair) are to remind us that there is a possibility that he can snap again.

[Fable]

I don't know how much I believe about the Annalise and Bonnie scene.  Annalise has always treated Bonnie like shit, and now she is claiming she never thought Bonnie was worthless.  BS, unless there is a complete retcon going on.  

[possibilities]

I do wonder what happened between the time when Anna quit her job and supported Bonnie as a mentor, and the toxic dynamic they've had ever since we met them in season 1. All I can think of so far is that Anna went deeper into her alcoholism, and became more and more bitter and angry and crazy after her miscarriage and what happened with Christophe/Wes/his mom, and also that Bonnie probably betrayed her in some way, possibly with Sam. But I definitely think we need to know, and not just wonder. Annalise being sober has seemed to really change her. She's hit rock bottom, but she's also been seeming to truly be trying to do right and see clearly. Her reaction to Connor was another thing that was a departure from how she used to be. She was always "tough love" before, except with Wes, and that scene when he came to her this episode she listened, acknowledged him, was gentle, showed compassion, and helped him with constructive engagement. It's way different than what she used to do. Losing everything + sobriety and therapy might actually be doing her some good. The way she was with Bonnie in the parking garage was similar to how she was in the flashback when she told her she'd quit her job -- not coddling, but genuine and honest and not manipulative.

[Fable]

48 minutes ago, possibilities said:

The way she was with Bonnie in the parking garage was similar to how she was in the flashback when she told her she'd quit her job -- not coddling, but genuine and honest and not manipulative.

You could well be right, but Annalise is so manipulative, and again, she is blaming Bonnie that she was failing at her class action lawsuit.  To paraphrase, she says “I was trying to do something good, but look what you have done.”  She is constantly degrading Bonnie. 

I love Viola Davis in this role, but honestly, if the K4, Bonnie, Nate and Frank all pushed her off of a cliff somewhere, it would be well deserved.