S02.E04: Chapter Four: Will the Wise

[Clanstarling]

23 minutes ago, rove4 said:

Not fond of rebellious Eleven, even though I understand where her frustration comes from.  The memory of running in terror for your life doesn't last long, it seems.

Well, a year is a pretty long time. A year without real contact with anyone but Hop, and without any obvious threat. It's not hard for me to believe that she's feeling the cabin is just as much a prison as the lab at this point - despite the significant improvement of the adult taking care of her.

[Mattipoo]

Does anyone else think the older brother of Mad Max is the most annoying character ever on this show? He just walks around looking angry all the time with absolutely no other emotion.

 

Poor kitty! I really like Dustin and his mom so I hope nothing happens to either of them.

[LeGrandElephant]

Oh wow too many things to say...

 

Didn’t the bad guys make a fake Will body last season? Why not do the same for Barb, just to give her parents some closure? At least she’s actually dead, unlike Will. Why didn’t her mom show up at the park to meet with Nancy?

 

That fight between Hop and Eleven - I 100% blame him, he’s the adult, he’s the one with any kind of life experience, he should have been the one to realize locking a kid up for almost a year in a cabin without exercise or education or companionship or anything isn’t fair or sustainable. Why didn’t he try to disguise her or get her to some kind of normal life elsewhere? Why couldn’t they have her in foster care and then come back for some reason? I guess they want to keep the character in suspended animationwith no social skills between seasons and had to fill up the last year somehow... but it makes Hop look pretty bad. Also can’t believe he just jumped in that tunnel alone without getting backup or even telling anyone where he was going  

 

Dustin is an idiot. I forget the details, but I think he actually saw the demagorgon and maybe some of the upside down last year, right? So why isn’t he more suspicious of this baby monster he found? He’s gotta feel really guilty that it ate his cat, let alone who knows what else it’s giong to do or how it connects to what happened to Will.

 

 I want to know what the deal is with Max and her maybe step brother. He suddenly hates Lucas - is he racist, or is he part of some evil conspiracy (or both)? He’s definitely abusive. I wonder if they have parents at all. Maybe for some reason it’s just the two of them hiding out from something and pretending to be a family. 

[Kel Varnsen]

29 minutes ago, LeGrandElephant said:

That fight between Hop and Eleven - I 100% blame him, he’s the adult, he’s the one with any kind of life experience, he should have been the one to realize locking a kid up for almost a year in a cabin without exercise or education or companionship or anything isn’t fair or sustainable. Why didn’t he try to disguise her or get her to some kind of normal life elsewhere? Why couldn’t they have her in foster care and then come back for some reason? I guess they want to keep the character in suspended animationwith no social skills between seasons and had to fill up the last year somehow... but it makes Hop look pretty bad. Also can’t believe he just jumped in that tunnel alone without getting backup or even telling anyone where he was going  

 

Dustin is an idiot. I forget the details, but I think he actually saw the demagorgon and maybe some of the upside down last year, right? So why isn’t he more suspicious of this baby monster he found? He’s gotta feel really guilty that it ate his cat, let alone who knows what else it’s giong to do or how it connects to what happened to Will.

As for Hopper it is a shitty situation but I am not sure there was a good one. Just think back to how many Hawkins Lab goons that Eleven killed last year. Knowing that and what lengths they will go to get her back, can you let anyone see or talk to her. The only real option is moving far away, but even then he is a middle aged man coming to a new area with a young girl for whom he has no identification. Becuase no one would find that suspicious or creepy.

As for Dustin, he did stupid things, but keep in mind he is like 12 years old and 12 year olds in general do a lot of stupid things.

[EarlGreyTea]

6 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

As for Hopper it is a shitty situation but I am not sure there was a good one. Just think back to how many Hawkins Lab goons that Eleven killed last year. Knowing that and what lengths they will go to get her back, can you let anyone see or talk to her. The only real option is moving far away, but even then he is a middle aged man coming to a new area with a young girl for whom he has no identification. Becuase no one would find that suspicious or creepy.

As for Dustin, he did stupid things, but keep in mind he is like 12 years old and 12 year olds in general do a lot of stupid things.

I'm not even sure why Eleven even needs to be protected or hidden. We saw her take out all those agents in last year's finale and we saw her take out the Demogorgon. And she's supposed to need protection? She could easily zap anyone who attempts to capture her and take her back to the lab. I supposed you could make the argument that she needs to be hidden to protect her from a media frenzy, but in that case, just keep her quiet, but let her see her loved ones.

I guess you could also make the argument - and it's a compelling one - that the lab agents would simply bump off those closest to her to get her to comply. That's probably the biggest reason.

Edited November 6, 2017 by EarlGreyTea

[LeGrandElephant]

5 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

As for Hopper it is a shitty situation but I am not sure there was a good one. Just think back to how many Hawkins Lab goons that Eleven killed last year. Knowing that and what lengths they will go to get her back, can you let anyone see or talk to her. The only real option is moving far away, but even then he is a middle aged man coming to a new area with a young girl for whom he has no identification. Becuase no one would find that suspicious or creepy.

As for Dustin, he did stupid things, but keep in mind he is like 12 years old and 12 year olds in general do a lot of stupid things.

Hopper’s a cop, he can make fake identification very easily. I feel like his plan makes no sense and if they weren’t planning for another season he’d either move far away with her and commit to being her father, or he’d find her foster care or similar in another state. This plot line seems like an excuse to keep her un-socialized between seasons, but it bothers me a lot more than the whole dart thing. It’s also not very plausible that Hawkins lab goons wouldn’t be watching him and eventually notice he goes to this isolated cabin every night. 

[Kel Varnsen]

3 minutes ago, EarlGreyTea said:

I'm not even sure why Eleven even needs to be protected or hidden. We saw her take out all those agents in last year's finale and we saw her take out the Demogorgon. And she's supposed to need protection? She could easily zap anyone who attempts to capture her and take her back to the lab. I supposed you could make the argument that she needs to be hidden to protect her from a media frenzy, but in that case, just keep her quiet, but let her see her loved ones.

I guess you could also make the argument - and it's a compelling one - that the lab agents would simply bump off those closest to her to get her to comply. That's probably the biggest reason.

I don't think she is bullet proof, and she can only use her powers on someone if she can see them. What if the government decides she is too dangerous to be walking around and has her assassinated. It is not really outside of the realm of possibility.  Plus as part of protecting her, part of it is probably protecting her from having to kill anyone.

[dju]

8 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I don't think she is bullet proof, and she can only use her powers on someone if she can see them. What if the government decides she is too dangerous to be walking around and has her assassinated. It is not really outside of the realm of possibility.  Plus as part of protecting her, part of it is probably protecting her from having to kill anyone.

I 100% agree with all of this but I also see why you could argue that her isolatation and protection weren’t necessary and that she wasn’t under much danger. We get hints that El is still being somewhat ‘hunted’ but I think the stakes needed to be a little higher or a little more apparent in order for Hopper’s complete flip out over her field trip to seem more justified. The more I watch that scene, the more I appreciate El’s anger and the complexity of their relationship and bond.

[The Companion]

On 11/5/2017 at 9:17 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

I don't think she is bullet proof, and she can only use her powers on someone if she can see them. What if the government decides she is too dangerous to be walking around and has her assassinated. It is not really outside of the realm of possibility.  Plus as part of protecting her, part of it is probably protecting her from having to kill anyone.

I can't imagine that the government would decide anything other than that. She can act as a untraceable spy and she can kill with her mind. She is incredibly dangerous in the wrong hands. They would absolutely kill or kidnap anyone they thought she cared about to get their weapon back and/or prevent her from using her powers against them. I suspect Hopper has taken things too far because he is so worried about losing her after losing his daughter, but I think we can assume that the danger is real as well.

[Taryn74]

8 minutes ago, The Companion said:

I suspect Hopper has taken things too far because he is so worried about losing her after losing his daughter, but I think we can assume that the danger is real as well.

Truly.  Plus, what reasonable person thinks 'Eh, if we have any problems with anybody I'll just have my 13 year old foster daughter kill them.'  That's not exactly a good solution LOL.

[Kel Varnsen]

4 hours ago, The Companion said:

I can't imagine that the government would decide anything other than that. She can act as a untraceable spy and she can kill with her mind. She is incredibly dangerous in the wrong hands. They would absolutely kill or kidnap anyone they thought she cared about to get their weapon back and/or prevent her from using her powers against them. I suspect Hopper has taken things too far because he is so worried about losing her after losing his daughter, but I think we can assume that the danger is real as well.

Plus there is still the mountain of guilt he probably feels for turning her over to the government to save Will, which is also affecting his judgement. Because even if the government didn't get her, it resulted in her having to kill a bunch of people then being sent  to the Upside-down then escaping and having to live in the woods for months where she probably could have died multiple ways.

[SparklesBitch]

Poor Mews! =( I’m very curious to see how Dustin is going to explain this to his mom and the other boys. 

The fight scene between El and Hop was so well done, I was blown away. I loved the shot of him waiting on the porch for her, hidden in darkness except for the glowing tip of the cigarette. El is totally a bratty teen....because she’s 13 and she’s supposed to be....but Hop isn’t exactly doing her any favors by keeping her locked up in a cabin in the middle of nowhere without any human contact or exercise for almost a year. And taking away her TV on top of that? Not a brilliant move. What else is she supposed to do all day, exactly? I get that he doesn’t realistically have many options for what to do with her and he’s trying to get through to her that the danger she’s in is still very real, but....yeah. El needs some companionship. That being said....how have the people from the lab NOT found out about him keeping El in that cabin by now? They seem to know everything else. 

Also, El all alone and crying over her mom...my heart broke for her. Poor kid. 

I was so proud that Nancy and Jonathan’s plan worked, but how did nobody at that lab think to pat them down or search Nancy’s purse? That tape recorder was huge. 

Like other people said, I’m getting really sick of Billy. He’s an abusive bully who is also now a racist or something. Either that or he knows something about what Lucas and the rest of the boys are involved in....or maybe both? Either way, I hate him and no amount of sad, dark and scary backstory is going to fix that. You don’t get to be a racist who also calls someone as young as Max a “piece of shit” and be redeemed. Ugh. What kind of adult leaves a kid like Billy alone with or in charge of a kid like Max? Poor Max needs some friends and a hug. Hopefully she’ll be fully incorporated into the group soon enough, because what she said to Lucas was true, they DID seek her out, after all. 

Also, it’s good to know that other people were picking up on homoeroticism from that shower scene with poor Steve. I hope it doesn’t go that way, mostly because Steve can do SO much better than Billy. 

And poor, sweet Will. He just can’t catch a break, and Joyce was great. I love that she took him seriously and was really listening and trying to find the best way in which he could communicate what he was experiencing. 

The acting in this show is almost always top notch, but this episode should definitely have these actors scooping up Emmys left and right, especially Millie, Noah, David and Winona. Just wow. 

[Tyro49]

El is at an age when Hopper will soon need Joyce to talk to her about "something" that is likely to happen soon; and Joyce will probably come up with a better plan for her.

If the other numbered girl is out there, why can't El get away as well?

Why did El's (Jane's) mother "vanish" when El touched her? And why didn't Hopper take her back to her mother in the first place?

How is Dustin going to get Dart out of the house?

[knaankos]

I have to say. This was the first episode of the entire series that I thought was an overall bad episode. There were too many over the top reactions to things from all characters. 

[CeeBeeGee]

On 11/2/2017 at 11:56 AM, The Companion said:

The cast is really spectacular. I don't know where you find this many exceptionally talented kids. All I need now is a cameo by Lady Mormont. 

From your mouth to the Duffer Brothers' ears! Imagine Lady Mormont glowering at the Bullet in the parking lot.

[Hanahope]

Oh man, the poor cat.  Dart must move pretty fast and/or Mews got a bit chubby and lazy, because normally I'd think cats are pretty good at sensing out danger and avoiding it.  I hope Dustin now finally realizes that Dart is not a pet,  but is growing into a real dangerous creature.

I really chalk it up to Nancy and Johnathan for apparently having a decent plan to get the admission of Barb's death out of them.  Now what will they do with it.  Just play it for Barb's parents, or something more?

Incredible scene with Hopper and Eleven.  Normal teens of biological parents is hard enough, it must really be near impossible for a teen with super powers with a non-biological, not even adopted, adult ..... supervisor?  sort of parent?  authority figure?  And too bad Eleven couldn't act more "normal" with the mom and kid that they had to go and call the police on her.  And Eleven's calling out Mama was heartbreaking.  How did Hopper get a whole box of stuff from the lab about Eleven's mom (and others)?

And yes, Billy is a racist.  Why else would he take an instant hatred of Lucas on sight?

[secnarf]

6 hours ago, Hanahope said:

And yes, Billy is a racist.  Why else would he take an instant hatred of Lucas on sight?

While that was my immediate thought - I was hoping to see his reaction to one of the other boys as well. It could potentially just be that he doesn't want his sister hanging out with boys. I think racism is a more likely explanation, but was watching for anything that could confirm that. I don't think Billy ever really sees Max with the other boys, though.

[Hanahope]

10 hours ago, secnarf said:

While that was my immediate thought - I was hoping to see his reaction to one of the other boys as well. It could potentially just be that he doesn't want his sister hanging out with boys. I think racism is a more likely explanation, but was watching for anything that could confirm that. I don't think Billy ever really sees Max with the other boys, though.

Except that he didn't tell Max "stay away from boys", it was "stay away from HIM" which made it sound more personal.

[Absurda]

I don't really have any major issues with Billie being a character with no other purpose than being a bully and a-hole. It's fairly realistic that even though these kids are going through something major, the petty everyday problems like bullies don't just go away. I will say, though, that Billie is a bit more like an over the top cartoon villain than a realistic bully.

I don't think trying to put El in foster care or place her with a "nice family" would be a very good idea. She has no socialization and no impulse control. All it would take is one argument for her powers to come out and her cover to be blown. If Hopper, who knows who and what she is, had trouble with her imagine what a civilian family would go through.

[LilJen]

On ‎10‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 1:47 AM, Last Time Lord said:

I just knew where it was going to go when Dustin's mother was calling the cat for its dinner.

I was slow on the uptake here. That was some seriously GROSS CGI.

 

On ‎10‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 2:28 PM, KatsaKriid said:

I also don't understand how Hopper has managed to keep her whereabouts on the down low, considering the fact that the Hawkins Group has eyes everywhere. How has she not been discovered? I know Hopper is working with them now, but considering how they are keeping a close eye on potential liabilities, a secluded cabin doesn't seem like a good enough explanation, no matter how isolated he is trying to keep her. I guess this storyline is about to get interesting now that Eleven has made a connection with her mother. That was such a heartbreaking scene! ? 

Yeah, and when she's screaming and breaking windows? The lab people HAVE to have followed Hopper home at SOME point!

On ‎10‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 10:01 PM, nodorothyparker said:

I am going to need there to be some kind of point to Billy soon other than being a random douche with hair band hair. 

I am with you all on this one. Billy NEEDS to have a point. I am in on the theory that Billy and Max were also 'test subjects' like Eleven.

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, LilJen said:

I was slow on the uptake here. That was some seriously GROSS CGI.

 

Yeah, and when she's screaming and breaking windows? The lab people HAVE to have followed Hopper home at SOME point!

And yet, it wasn't quite as gross as I expected. 

I don't believe they were at Hopper's home, but in his father's cabin. That being said, they could have followed him to the cabin, but I don't think there was any reason to tie Hopper to El after the events of last season (if I recall correctly). 

[Athena]

On 11/29/2017 at 9:35 AM, Clanstarling said:

I don't believe they were at Hopper's home, but in his father's cabin. That being said, they could have followed him to the cabin, but I don't think there was any reason to tie Hopper to El after the events of last season (if I recall correctly). 

Yes, it was some cabin of his father's or grandfather's. I think the events of season one would make Hopper even less suspicious than anyone else in the team because he gave up Eleven last season to save the others.

[festivus]

On 10/27/2017 at 8:32 PM, ghoulina said:

That final shot of Hopper under the pumpkin field was awesome. Very Twilight Zone. 

I LOVED that shot. I may have squee-d a little.

Edited February 19, 2018 by festivus

[jhlipton]

On 10/28/2017 at 1:57 PM, DEM said:

They have to be careful with the Hollands, but that is so upstanding of them to be concerned for their well-being.

That is apparently due to the fans of the show.  The Duffers were surprised when they got a flood of Tweets demanding #JusticeForBarb.

[supposebly]

27 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

The Duffers were surprised when they got a flood of Tweets demanding #JusticeForBarb.

That surprises me. Wasn't this supposed to be a show about the underdogs, the weird and the bullied? Does Barb not count?

[Iju]

my little brother and sister were watching the fight scene again and i wish i could say i was surprised at the amount of people on eleven's side but nope. the amount of people here even lowkey encouraging her brattines by using the reason "She has powers". and? so you shouldn't do anything that gets her mad? unlike perhaps some of you, hopper is not afraid of eleven. that's not punishing your child because you're afraid he or she will hit you (which can happen). to act like hopper had it coming is ignorant.

also, people are taking her isolation out of context. "Papa" isolated and abused her without reason other than his selfishness. hooper explained to her why she needed to stay hidden. the only mistake he did was that he didn't explain how hard his job would be and he would come home late, and the promise he did was pretty big. however, eleven may be uneducated but she's not stupid. she understands what hopper means for her health as well as his. and to say that it was stupid to stop her TV privileges because "it was the only thing keeping her entertained and occupied" is so blinding to eleven's side since she left in the first place even with loads of hours of TV. so please.

Edited March 2, 2019 by Iju

[Ambrosefolly]

On 3/2/2019 at 12:51 PM, Iju said:

my little brother and sister were watching the fight scene again and i wish i could say i was surprised at the amount of people on eleven's side but nope. the amount of people here even lowkey encouraging her brattines by using the reason "She has powers". and? so you shouldn't do anything that gets her mad? unlike perhaps some of you, hopper is not afraid of eleven. that's not punishing your child because you're afraid he or she will hit you (which can happen). to act like hopper had it coming is ignorant.

also, people are taking her isolation out of context. "Papa" isolated and abused her without reason other than his selfishness. hooper explained to her why she needed to stay hidden. the only mistake he did was that he didn't explain how hard his job would be and he would come home late, and the promise he did was pretty big. however, eleven may be uneducated but she's not stupid. she understands what hopper means for her health as well as his. and to say that it was stupid to stop her TV privileges because "it was the only thing keeping her entertained and occupied" is so blinding to eleven's side since she left in the first place even with loads of hours of TV. so please.

 

 

Yep, I was low key encouraging her. You want to know why? Because Hopper kept her in that state for a year! She knew why she needed to be hidden; that is why she never sought out Mike in that month she was living in the woods for fear of the "bad men" taking her and hurting Mike and his family. She was  understanding that Hopper had to work and thus leave her alone during the day and part of the night.  It seemed that Hopper didn't have huge issues with her until the year anniversary approached.  In a perfect world with a completely even keel person, who would totally understand that for a fucking year she had to stay in a locked isolated cabin from civilization with the curtains drawn at all times with no end in sight. However El is  1) a child going through puberty 2) again been following Hopper's actually insane rules for a year 3) the equivalent to the prisoner from Plato's Cave Allegory after he/she discovers what was casting the shadows. This is a case where the girl's feelings does trump the larger picture in my mind.  It doesn't matter whether or not Hopper intentions were purer than Brenner's-it matters that El was feeling like she was stuck in an isolated room with no kids to talk, all the more diffcult because the very first person she every made a true connection with she is unable to contact, so it some ways it was worse than being in the lab. I don't think El was as mad that Hopper forgot  their Halloween plans, since she reluctantly accepted his make up tripple decker Eggo breakfast. She was upset that Hopper couldn't give her a straight answer as to when she could see Mike again. By the by, the television, which not only provided entertainment allowed to see Mike (how good that was to see but not contact the object over affection, is a debate for another time)  and did work for a year. 

[stonehaven]

I rarely get physically ill from watching a TV show but the death of the cat did it for me. I knew it was coming but I am shaken by it..not sure why but I am....and something like that stops me from wanting to watch any more for awhile. They really didn't have to show the eating....hell, they could have shown a bloody furball and that would have been just as well...but the whole cat????

Ewwwww...a million times...ewwwwwwwwwwww........

[foxfreakinmulder]

On ‎10‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 6:32 PM, ghoulina said:

That final shot of Hopper under the pumpkin field was awesome. Very Twilight Zone. 

I agree, that was such a cool shot.

I want Joyce's brown sweater.

When I was high school we had to shower and it was run through spin around to get front and back wet and your out. You didn't wash your body with soap and you differently didn't wash your hair. It was just to rinse off the sweat from PE.

Poor Will :-(

Poor Mews :-(

I wish Billy would get locked in a room Dart.

Nothing will replace the Christmas Lights!

[Taryn74]

Does anyone "get" the brief scene where Joyce takes a drag on Hop's cigarette and kind of sputters and says "Hop!" in this chiding tone, and he just shrugs apologetically? We've seen Joyce smoking many times already, so it's not like she's not used to it. Was he supposed to be smoking a gross brand or something? It was obviously an actual cigarette and not a joint. I don't get it and it's driving me crazy.

It's the little things that bother me the most when I can't figure them out.