S07.E08: Winter of Our Discontent

[AmandaPanda]

Quote

Ally confronts Kai. Meanwhile, Winter must choose between Kai and Beverly when he makes a questionable decision.

[Spartan Girl]

Ivy is so dead.

I think the new fearless Ally joined the cult on purpose so she could take down Kai and Ivy herself to save Oz. Glad she didn't trust Vincent and sold him out to Kai.

[chillenout]

Going by next weeks previews it looks like there’s going to be a little Jim  Jones going on. 

[ShadowHunter]

Well that was a crazy one.

Winter sold out Beverly unless that was the truth.

I don't like Ivy so I am glad she is worried.

I thought Kai was going to kiss Winter for a second. That was a messed up scene. Shallow Evan looked good. Nice to see his Brown hair again.

Yes to Evan and Colton. We deserved more.

In the flashbacks Kai is not always as messed up as he is now. He saved all the people from evil Rick Springfield. Don't care they killed his character.

Ally is doing something it only took 8 episodes.

Bye Vincent glad you got sold out.  You were aware Mom and Dad are rotting upstairs.

I am going to go watch Evan on the Conan show nice to see him normal right after being Kai lol.

[TobinAlbers]

So all the name male leads on this show are dead-zo with the exception of Kai. Oh, this is about to get good.

Not sure Vincent deserved that gruesome a fate but it did show Winter that she most definitely isn't excluded from death at the hands of Kai.

Should've known that getting Samuel's backstory meant he was dead too. And no wonder he wasn't unpost about Harrison since he was into Kair first. In fact Kai was tapping almost everyone's ass and tried to simulate sex with his sister.

Speaking of that threesome- WOW. Kai's rationalization of how the child would be theirs and building a workaround for actual incest? Crazy and...well crazy but also smart.

Rick Springfield's House of Judgement was something else. That's definitely one for his actor reel! Don't know how the druggie was even able to stand.

So Ally joined to save her son but is really going to end up Kai's Queen and mother of the Messiah isn't she? 

[Pixel]

That was a batshit crazy yet compelling episode. When I see not-crazy Kai I feel almost sorry for Kai of today.  Although I guess even the not-crazy version of him is still a bit off. 

[GoneGirl]

20 minutes ago, ShadowHunter said:

Well that was a crazy one.

Winter sold out Beverly unless that was the truth.

I don't like Ivy so I am glad she is worried.

I thought Kai was going to kiss Winter for a second. That was a messed up scene. Shallow Evan looked good. Nice to see his Brown hair again.

Yes to Evan and Colton. We deserved more.

In the flashbacks Kai is not always as messed up as he is now. He saved all the people from evil Rick Springfield. Don't care they killed his character.

Ally is doing something it only took 8 episodes.

Bye Vincent glad you got sold out.  You were aware Mom and Dad are rotting upstairs.

I am going to go watch Evan on the Conan show nice to see him normal right after being Kai lol.

Is he on tonight?

[ShadowHunter]

3 minutes ago, GoneGirl said:

Is he on tonight?

Yes.

[mamadrama]

I loved every minute of that one. I'll never listen to "I Swear" in the same way again.

Looking forward to the Jim Jones and the Kool-Aid next week. 

I still don't really understand what Kai's endgame is and what he's hoping to achieve. 

[Pixel]

Stupid question -do places like Rick Springfield’s House of Religion and Pain really exist? That’s some serial killer crazy shit. 

[ShadowHunter]

4 minutes ago, Pixel said:

Stupid question -do places like Rick Springfield’s House of Religion and Pain really exist? That’s some serial killer crazy shit. 

I think it was real. Would show why Winter still felt loyal and love for Kai. He did stop the psycho from trying to get Winter.

I know Ally wants her son back she was able to watch someone be murdered really well.

Again Kai said the right thing in the City Council meeting. When he told the guy "he lived in a gated community" and had money.  What happens when you step outside? 

[pinkelephant3]

29 minutes ago, Pixel said:

Stupid question -do places like Rick Springfield’s House of Religion and Pain really exist? That’s some serial killer crazy shit. 

Yes I think in real life this type of thing really happens. The dark web is a real thing with some crazy shit...that I plan to never visit!

[mamadrama]

10 minutes ago, pinkelephant3 said:

Yes I think in real life this type of thing really happens. The dark web is a real thing with some crazy shit...that I plan to never visit!

I've spent quite a bit of time on the DW and haven't come across anything like this...yet. I am sure it's probably out there. I figured this particular one was based on the SAW franchise. 

[OldButHappy]

2 hours ago, Pixel said:

 

Stupid question -do places like Rick Springfield’s House of Religion and Pain really exist? That’s some serial killer crazy shit.

 

The scare houses that probably inspired RM's vision are more common than you think.....I remember that Studio 360 on NPR did a segment on a "Hell House" done by fundamentalist Christians, to show the consequences of sin (http://www.radiolab.org/story/106885-make-up-hell-house-skeletons/) - the biggest difference is that the "sinners" are actors, not unwilling victims.  I just found a good example: http://darkrailhellhouse.com/about/   (definitely not for me - the combo of religious zealots and gore - yipes!!)  

Edited October 25, 2017 by OldButHappy
added link

[Stringey]

57 minutes ago, OldButHappy said:

The scare houses that probably inspired RM's vision are more common than you think.....I remember that Studio 360 on NPR did a segment on a "Hell House" done by fundamentalist Christians, to show the consequences of sin (http://www.radiolab.org/story/106885-make-up-hell-house-skeletons/) - the biggest difference is that the "sinners" are actors, not unwilling victims.  I just found a good example: http://darkrailhellhouse.com/about/   (definitely not for me - the combo of religious zealots and gore - yipes!!)  

Yes a long time  ago I heard about a haunted house during Halloween put on by nutty extreme Christians somewhere. This one supposedly was supposed to depict hell for what they considered to be sinners.

On a completely random note it it is currently after midnight and still 84 degrees where I live in southern California. I cannot fall asleep in night heat. Lol

Edited October 25, 2017 by Stringey

[vb68]

Jeez Kai is one twisted piece of work. That scene with Winter and the cop. I was so glad Winter came to her senses and said hell no.

So Ally grew a brain and/or an evil spine in the mental hospital. Nice.  Where exactly is her son?

Speaking of Sam the cop, a little surprised he lived so long considering it did start out with him lording over Kai.

I'm thinking keeping Beverly alive may come back to get him. ( As might inviting Ally into the cult.)

[RalyWilmy]

2 hours ago, vb68 said:

Jeez Kai is one twisted piece of work. That scene with Winter and the cop. I was so glad Winter came to her senses and said hell no.

I'm not sure if that was intended to be comedy but my daughter and I were in stitches during that scene.  Don't get me wrong, we thought it was insane.  It was mostly the dialog.  "This is the song that will be played every time a messiah is conceived", "Isn't the whole point of a messiah is that there's only one?"

I thought it was a great episode.  The Judgement House thing was crazy.  And Ally is so much less annoying now that she's regained her sanity.

[Pixel]

5 hours ago, vb68 said:

Jeez Kai is one twisted piece of work. That scene with Winter and the cop. I was so glad Winter came to her senses and said hell no.

So Ally grew a brain and/or an evil spine in the mental hospital. Nice.  Where exactly is her son?

Speaking of Sam the cop, a little surprised he lived so long considering it did start out with him lording over Kai.

I'm thinking keeping Beverly alive may come back to get him. ( As might inviting Ally into the cult.)

Yeah, it’s starting to look like Adina Porter may be his franchise’s designated last girl. 

Edited October 25, 2017 by Pixel

[mamadrama]

4 hours ago, Stringey said:

Yes a long time  ago I heard about a haunted house during Halloween put on by nutty extreme Christians somewhere. This one supposedly was supposed to depict hell for what they considered to be sinners.

 

My own county actually puts one of these on at Halloween. It's as weird in person as you might think it is. 

19 minutes ago, RalyWilmy said:

I'm not sure if that was intended to be comedy but my daughter and I were in stitches during that scene.  Don't get me wrong, we thought it was insane.  It was mostly the dialog.  "This is the song that will be played every time a messiah is conceived", "Isn't the whole point of a messiah is that there's only one?"

It HAD to be intended comedy, right? Because I laughed until I was blue in the face: the song, the way Kai ripped off his robe, the outfits, the dialouge, the rolling of Winter's eyes...pure gold. 

[Chaos Theory]

Well Ivy ain’t that a kick in the nuts.

 

This episode in large parts shows why women don’t and can’t form allegiances against men.  Even with everything Winter knows about Kai she still loves him and wants to save him even though he pretty much wants to be the daddy to her baby.  She is willing to go against her own best interest and a friend rather then her increasingly malevolent  brother.

It took eight episodes but Ally has finally come into her own and has finally begun playing the game.  I  wondering what she is actually up to or if she has actually said fuck it and aligned herself with Kai because it allows her to get close to her son and fuck with both Ivy and Winter. 

Edited October 25, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[luna1122]

That was pretty fucked up. It lost its way a little, for me...there was SO much batshit crazy in one episode, and seeing Kai at various points in time and levels of crazy didnt' really help to explain just what caused him to crack so wide open psycho, but maybe it wasn't supposed to. TheRick Springfield house of horror turned him for good? altho he was already crazy enough to have his dead parents hanging out upstairs. Or...were, they? I might have the timelines screwed up.

But aw. Pre horror house Kai was so cute and playful and silly and adorable.

Ally was willing for Vincent to be sacrificed to save Ozzy? Where IS Ozzy while his moms are being insane, anyway?

Did the horror house folks wind up being some of Kai's minions? And has Kai slept with pretty much everyone in his cult? (except Winter, tho not for lack of sort of trying, and Ivy, I guess?)

[darkestboy]

Best episode of the season.

Both Ally and Winter finally stepped up and became more interesting as characters. I did like the Winter/Kai 2015 flashback where they took out that Christian guy.

Kai has truly gotten more and more dangerous as a character as well and it seems like it could/will be Ally, Ivy and Winter who'll end up taking him out.

Rudy being an innocent in all this was a nice twist. Shame he had to die though.

Not sad to see Samuels getting killed. He was a terrible character. Gary will probably be next though, 10/10

[RedMal]

The last couple of minutes and the threesome scene ("THIS IS THE HOLY RITUAL!" - "You made it up this afternoon") saved it a bit, but I didn't like this episode. Sure it was better than last week, by a mile, but still...

I was surprised that Vincent wasn't actually part of the cult. However, Ally joining was obvious as soon as they showed Beverly being under the hood.

I still find Cult to be the best season, since the story is somewhat interesting. But I'm starting to lose confidence that it won't be ending in a satisfying way.

[SWLinPHX]

11 minutes ago, RedMal said:

I still find Cult to be the best season, since the story is somewhat interesting. But I'm starting to lose confidence that it won't be ending in a satisfying way.

I hate to say it, but most seasons of "AHS" end up less than satisfying, like they introduced too many characters and subplots without thinking it through, then are like, "Oh shit, we only have two more episodes left, we need to wind this all up some how!!"  It's like the story was never planned beginning to end.

[ZoloftBlob]

Again, the modern setting really hurts this series. 

I did love Rick Springfield's Hell House. I just had no idea why Kai and Winter's youthful adventures in crazy were relevant. I did find the creepy incest angle and messiah ceremony hilarious and a nice dash of just how cray Kai it

A city council meeting with ahem blue shirted storm troopers literally holding guns while the council is threatened into creating a private security army? Yeah that's going to get outside attention.

Likewise a bunch of blue shirted Nazi styled thugs setting up their own little beer hall in the Butchery. Beverly not working as a reporter but hanging around a restaurant cooking for the boys? Doesn't she have a job?

Generally Kai really doesn't seem so smart that I can believe he can mastermind a normal life let alone a rise to power and letting Ally into the cult after pointedly victimizing her is kind of a problem.

[RedMal]

22 minutes ago, SWLinPHX said:

I hate to say it, but most seasons of "AHS" end up less than satisfying, like they introduced too many characters and subplots without thinking it through, then are like, "Oh shit, we only have two more episodes left, we need to wind this all up some how!!"  It's like the story was never planned beginning to end.

I've only seen the first season all the way through, but yeah, I remember hating the finale.

[Chaos Theory]

I think the current setting both helps and hurts the season.  I think this is by far the best season (Sorry Asylum you had a good run) but I think a lot of people aren’t going to buy the “let’s take this to the worst possible possibility” even though I kinda enjoy when the show does it.  I do buy it because that is the kind of tv watcher I am.  I know full well a lot of people just aren’t.   I like the idea of today’s political climate being used as a backdrop of a larger story but I also understand that some people don’t.

 

Edited To add:  I loved the finale of Murder House for the most part.   

Edited October 26, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[Pixel]

47 minutes ago, ZoloftBlob said:

I did love Rick Springfield's Hell House. I just had no idea why Kai and Winter's youthful adventures in crazy were relevant. I did find the creepy incest angle and messiah ceremony hilarious and a nice dash of just how cray Kai it

I think it's relevant in that it explains Winter's devotion even though even she's starting to give him the side eye.  She feels like he saved her life, and she remembers the Kai who wasn't crazy. She (like a lot of us women) thinks maybe if she loves him enough, she can save him from himself.

I don't really get why Ally sacrificed Vincent. It seems like there could have been a better way to play that.  Vincent could have been a good ally for Ally.

How the hell did that fucked up family produce an actual doctor? Or therapist, or whatever medical professional he was?

Edited October 25, 2017 by Pixel

[dolphincorn]

I think this might be the only series in the franchise that is getting better as it goes on. I'm enjoying it.

[SWLinPHX]

1 hour ago, SWLinPHX said:

I hate to say it, but most seasons of "AHS" end up less than satisfying, like they introduced too many characters and subplots without thinking it through, then are like, "Oh shit, we only have two more episodes left, we need to wind this all up some how!!"  It's like the story was never planned beginning to end.

 

1 hour ago, RedMal said:

I've only seen the first season all the way through, but yeah, I remember hating the finale.

 

1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

 I loved the finale of Murder House for the most part.   

I was going to add that "Murder House" was the least guilty of this (though some found the finale less than satisfying), but the series got more notorious for this with subsequent seasons.  They never seem to come together seamlessly where all the pieces fit or as if anything that happened earlier was planned to end up where it does at the end.

[vb68]

2 hours ago, ZoloftBlob said:

Again, the modern setting really hurts this series. 

Oh I don't know. I was thinking after it showed Ally in the cult that I need her going after Ivy in a Jill Stein mask! ;)

[Chaos Theory]

1 hour ago, Pixel said:

 

I don't really get why Ally sacrificed Vincent. It seems like there could have been a better way to play that.  Vincent could have been a good ally for Ally.

 

We know Vincent is innocent but Ally doesn’t.  All she knows is that BOTH of his sibling conspired with her wife against her.  Even if she believed him he really doesn’t make a very good ally.  He makes a much better sacrifice.  Someone to throw onto the alter of Kai as a show of her support of him regardless of it being real or not.  Right now it could go either way.   Ally is the only one who survived him.  That has to mean something.  It would be interesting to see them play mind games with each other both offering each other what they want most.   

Edited October 25, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[peacheslatour]

Quote

My own county actually puts one of these on at Halloween. It's as weird in person as you might think it is. 

With tax payer money? o_O

[ShadowHunter]

I think this has been one of the better seasons. The plot is all tied together for once. Some seasons had 15 different things going on.

As far as how it should like I said who have no true good guys.  People who are just less evil then Kai.

Keeping Beverly alive may become a mistake for Kai. Winter also will be on Bev's hate list.

In the scene where Kai is with the Sameuls his hair was bright blue. If you really look you cant see his roots. Then in other parts his hair is lighter and you see the roots lol.

I agree that Kai is getting crazier actually. This won't be good for anyone.

[ZoloftBlob]

I'm enjoying it but I wish it was better. It hasn't topped Asylum at all, for me, but hasn't raced Roanoke to the bottom.

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

We know Vincent is innocent but Ally doesn’t.  All she knows is that BOTH of his sibling conspired with her wife against her.  Even if she believed him he really doesn’t make a very good ally.  He makes a much better sacrifice.  Someone to throw onto the alter of Kai as a show of her support of him regardless of it being real or not.  Right now it could go either way.   Ally is the only one who survived him.  That has to mean something.  It would be interesting to see them play mind games with each other both offering each other what they want most.   

I wouldn't have called Vincent "innocent."  Even if he wasn't in on the plot against Ally, he was still complicit in Kai's actions and therefore someone not to be trusted.

[KatsaKriid]

1 hour ago, ShadowHunter said:

In the scene where Kai is with the Sameuls his hair was bright blue. If you really look you cant see his roots. Then in other parts his hair is lighter and you see the roots lol.

Yeah, the length of Kai's exposed roots is the show's timeline. lol

[iMonrey]

Well, crap - now they've killed off all the cute guys. Does this season have ten episodes, or thirteen? 

I'm still really distracted by Billie Lourd's flat effect. Her robotic, monotone delivery is the exact same affectation she employed in Scream Queens, so I don't know if this is just a character choice on her part, or if she is really just a lousy actress. 

In either case, I wouldn't be satisfied with an ending where she winds up the hero. After framing Beverly like that I'd prefer she be killed off at this point.

[Anela]

It isn't my favourite season, but this isn't one of my favourite shows, either. Hasn't been for a while. most horror movies don't scare me, now - I prefer chills up my spine, to people being killed with chainsaws. But most things don't spook me anymore. I think real life has just out-done anything on TV, for me. 

So Kai was getting into his brother's files. I wouldn't have trusted Vince either, after all of that. 

Doesn't Kai realize that all cult leaders die? I guess when you're crazy like that, you assume that it will be different for you. 

I liked the line, "I can't believe I was at the women's march, two months ago" and then Winter waking up, and stopping what would have been her rape. 

Beverly being kept working in a kitchen, would have been too weird for anyone who noticed. 

Edited October 25, 2017 by Anela

[ShadowHunter]

6 minutes ago, KatsaKriid said:

Yeah, the length of Kai's exposed roots is the show's timeline. lol

Yea I know thats what they are going for. Its just funny because some people complained about his roots showing. Then in the scene its like see no root problem lol. I feel they just tried to show Kai has not been keeping up with his hair ha.

[TattleTeeny]

So now I am wondering why Dr. Vincent even had those clown buttons on his desk. 

[RedMal]

1 minute ago, TattleTeeny said:

So now I am wondering why Dr. Vincent even had those clown buttons on his desk. 

It was either to throw audience off or they just weren't sure at the time who's part of the cult and who's not.

[TattleTeeny]

I mean in the context of the show's narrative as opposed to the show's production, i.e., why Vincent had them, not why production had Vincent have them. Maybe Kai left them there while snooping for all I know.  

Edited October 25, 2017 by TattleTeeny

[Anela]

7 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

So now I am wondering why Dr. Vincent even had those clown buttons on his desk. 

Maybe Vincent tried being a therapist for Kai, and that's where he got his ideas. 

[LoneHaranguer]

5 hours ago, ZoloftBlob said:

Likewise a bunch of blue shirted Nazi styled thugs setting up their own little beer hall in the Butchery.

It looked like a prison scene to me.

[TattleTeeny]

Of course, I am just using the scene between Vincent and Ally as "proof" that Vincent is innocent (or, rather, "innocent"--or VINNOCENT, haha!); I suppose anything could happen at this point. 

[Madding crowd]

I found the first couple of episodes really creepy, but in the last few season, Murphy and Co have always added  a campy element which takes all of the scare out it for me. On top of that, they are relying on gore, rather than seriously creepy storytelling. I liked the part with the RIck Springfield house, but it didn't really explain much to me either about Kai's motivations or why Winter is allowing herself to be treated like chattel. Kai seemed intent on saving the innocent people in the Judgement House, and in what must be a short time later, kills everyone in sight. I do like it that Ally and perhaps Beverly will be fighting back because a show where bad guys just kill and kill with no fight back is just dull.

The scene where Kai was in all seriousness playing "I Swear" as he hoped his sister would become pregnant was just too silly for words. I think people follow some strange stuff when they are isolated in a compound, but to be walking around in a city and still believe in stuff like this is a little much. As others have mentioned, City Council meetings are public venues, (I am a reporter and was just at one myself), and news of the nazi like security team would spread fast. They have to do a better job of telling why numerous connected murders, a blue haired councilman needing heavily armed men around him, and trucks spraying unknown chemicals etc doesn't get noticed at all. 

[Pixel]

4 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

I think people follow some strange stuff when they are isolated in a compound, but to be walking around in a city and still believe in stuff like this is a little much. As others have mentioned, City Council meetings are public venues, (I am a reporter and was just at one myself), and news of the nazi like security team would spread fast. They have to do a better job of telling why numerous connected murders, a blue haired councilman needing heavily armed men around him, and trucks spraying unknown chemicals etc doesn't get noticed at all. 

Oh, I don't know. There's a lot of unbelievable shit going on in politics in the US right now.  My mouth gapes in abject horror at least 5 times a day at actual events since the election. I'd believe just about anything at this point.

[Madding crowd]

I believe it could go on, but I also think it would be covered in the newspapers and TV, and the public would want some answers as to what is going on in their city. National politics is difficult for people to get close to in terms of getting answers, but city council meetings are public affairs and given the number of murders in that city, I would bet the public would show up demanding answers and asking questions. 

[TattleTeeny]

I think they might be tolerating his posse in light of the fact that he was recently shot at.