S01.E03: eXodus

[Bort]

Quote

In an effort to reunite with one another, Reed cuts a deal with the Sentinel Services and Caitlin and the kids seek help from someone outside the compound. Meanwhile, Thunderbird begins to teach Blink how to control her powers.

[SimoneS]

I am really loving this show. I hope that it hangs in there. The ratings aren't that great. I am not surprised that Reed was actually going to betray the mutant network. I knew he would. However, I give him credit for changing his mind and not going through with it. Stephen Moyer was so good as the conflicted Reed in the back of the van. I can't get over how good he is in this role.

So now Sentinel guy has to make a difficult decision about the fate of those kids.

Caitlin is such a naive fool. I did like Andy and Scotty's scenes. The cousin is silly, but a good kid. Andy is very powerful. When he learns to control his power, he will be dangerous as hell.

A tip for Dreamer, when a guy says that you shouldn't be together because you have to work together, he just isn't that into you.

In the preview, it looks like a mutant is working with Sentinel to neutralize the mutants' powers.

[stealinghome]

Aside from that last shot, I thought tonight was a downgrade from the first two episodes. There was too much of Reed out on a storyline island that is still so not compelling at all, and they made Caitlin too dumb and Andy too serial killer-ish. Seriously, that kid needs to chill the fuck out. This is how Magentos get made.

On the other hand, that last shot? Caitlin is getting her badass on. I fucking LOVE it. Caitlin/John/Marcos is the show's Power Trio, you can already tell. I hope the writers have recognized this and lean into it bigtime.

The John/Dreamer/Blink thing is gonna get messy. The Proudstar actor was pretty bad in that last scene, but in general he and the Marcos actor have improved A LOT from the pilot, where both were pretty weak.

I feel like the first scene with Lorna and Marcos kinda encapsulates this show. The idea of the Aurora Borealis is wonderful--genuinely inventive--but the scene would've been much more poignant if they had just stopped it there and shown Lorna and Marcos emotionally connecting. Instead, the writers have them make out (of course). This show has good ideas, but then swerves back into conventionality in a way that defeats its good ideas.

[AimingforYoko]

7 minutes ago, stealinghome said:

This is how Magentos get made.

And maybe that's the point.

[Lantern7]

More mutant angst fun! And with a lynch mob to boot! Only things missing were the Friends of Humanity berets and t-shirts, and you'd have the first episodes of the animated series.

I'm handling the show a little better each week. The tropes are there, and the magic can be a little forced, but there's making of a good series. It just suffers in comparison to the other superhero series airing on Mondays (Supergirl) and Fox's acclaimed art house mutant show (Legion on FX).

Whatsherface whammed Clarice. That's not gonna end well. Also, it looks like the kids' cousin as a power of his own: being a really, really, REALLY dumb kid. I mean REALLY. The other guy swore he wouldn't show anybody the warped statue, and you believed him? DUMB.

[tennisgurl]

I am still really liking the show. Things are moving along faster, and I like getting to know the characters more.

I liked getting to know some more of the mutants, and I still really love Blink, and she and Thunderbird/Johnny seem to have a nice chemistry going on. That being said, its going to be SUPER awkward now, even if the memory mutant changes her memories back. I also liked the flashback to Polaris and Marco kissing with their powers surging, that was really striking imagery. I give the actors credit, they're selling me pretty hard on this romance, even if we haven't seen them together much. 

Caitlin did something really stupid, but I can understand why. She really did still believe that this whole thing could be dealt with within the law, and she thought that the system was there to help, not to hurt people. Even seeing first hand last week how mutants are treated, I think this is a good beat for her character and the needed wake up call. It would have been a bit much to have her go from suburban mom who fully supports the oppressive system (out of ignorance, but still) to freedom fighter without some extra drama. I was also glad that the uncle and cousin didn't turn them in, even if the cousin was a dumbass kid, and the uncle was quick to jump to "you let mutants in here!!!". I give them credit for still sticking with their family (especially the cousin, who seemed to think that being a mutant was super cool) though, and maybe they could be a resource later. After what we`ve seen, not telling your mutant family to instantly fuck off is something to celebrate. I also liked that Marcos wasn't mad at Caitlin, and understood why she did it, and Caitlin apologized. Even if it probably wont turn romantic (they both seem very in love with their respective partners), I like the friendship they're building. 

I am a bit surprised that Reed was actually going to betray the Mutant Underground, but I am really glad he didn't go through with it. Again, like Caitlin, I think its a good character beat for him to hit, especially if he starts working with the mutants. He needed to have a chance to betray the people he used to fight against, but after seeing them as people, he didn't. Maybe Reed and Lorna can bond in mutant jail, and when they get out, they can go on double dates with Marcos and Caitlin! 

This show isn't reinventing the wheel or anything, but I really enjoy it. Theres a reason these tropes exist, because many of them work. 

[benteen]

Continuing to really enjoy this show.  I like the characters and the storylines.  Enjoy how the don't make the Sentinel Services guy, Jace, a one-dimensional villain, there's a lot of shades of gray there.

Edited October 17, 2017 by benteen

[Irishmaple]

I agree that separating Reed from the family wasn't the best decision. It really isn't a very compelling element. I don't feel that he's in any real danger nor did I believe he would betray the Rebel Alliance. Maybe next week they'll surprise me and shoot the guy, but I doubt it. 

As soon as Caitlyn's brother opened the door, I knew she was screwed. I've seen that actor way too often and he cannot be trusted. The scene with the kids was cute though. It was nice to see them in their natural element for a few minutes. The vigilantes seemed like Darwin Award candidates. The kid blew the door into matchsticks and they tried to give him another chance to kill them?

Lorna is seriously badass, and is definitely my favourite character right now.

[SimoneS]

31 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

It just suffers in comparison to the other superhero series airing on Mondays (Supergirl) and Fox's acclaimed art house mutant show (Legion on FX).

I enjoy Gifted way more than both those shows and think it stands on its own. Legion, I think is self-indulgent claptrap.

[roctavia]

This was another great episode. Things are moving without moving to fast, sure Reed and the family are still exactly where they were at the end of the first episode, but so much has changed. I like to see the learning and conflict for the parents as they expand beyond just being together as a family.

Reed clearly just wanted to protect his family, to get them safe.... without thinking about everyone else... but of course he had his eyes opened wide and realized that this is much bigger than just him and his family.

Caitlyn once again seeing how things are for mutants in the world was also a great way to show us the current climate for mutants instead of some exposition about how hard things are.

Definitely Blink is going to be extra messed up thanks to her new memory... I do like Johnny and I think Marcos is growing on me.  Lorna was pushing the limits of her collar, but nice to see that she can still use her powers without dying.

I hope Fox isn't stupid (like always) and gives this show a good chance, it's entertaining and not just some police/crime/medical drama.

[stealinghome]

Right now The Gifted is Fox's fifth-best rated show, on an insanely competitive night, and both weeks it built from a weaker lead-in. My understanding is that it has done well so far in delayed viewing as well. I do want the ratings to stabilize soon, but I think Fox would be nuts not to give it a full season pickup.

Edited October 17, 2017 by stealinghome

[Sandman]

21 hours ago, stealinghome said:

... and they made Caitlin too dumb and Andy too serial killer-ish. Seriously, that kid needs to chill the fuck out. This is how Magnetos get made.

Seriously -- that kid is at 4.5 Anakins on the Skywalker Scale of This Will Not End Well. I wish the actor playing Andy were just a hair less annoying. He's mostly just scowling.

Does Elena Satine only play sketchy characters? This Dreamer seems like a mess waiting to happen -- to other people.

Johnny and Marcos are both growing on me and I agree that Caitlin and the two of them are the core of the show so far. Turns out I missed having Amy Acker on my tv.

Edited October 17, 2017 by Sandman

[SimoneS]

24 minutes ago, Sandman said:

 I wish the actor playing Andy were just a hair less annoying. He's mostly just scowling.

I don't agree at all. I think that actor is doing a great job showing a range of emotions and most young actors can't pull that off. 

59 minutes ago, roctavia said:

  Lorna was pushing the limits of her collar, but nice to see that she can still use her powers without dying.

I think that it is just a matter of time before Lorna will be able to use her full powers and overcome the collar. 

Edited October 17, 2017 by SimoneS

[Sandman]

1 hour ago, Irishmaple said:

The vigilantes seemed like Darwin Award candidates. The kid blew the door into matchsticks and they tried to give him another chance to kill them?

Yeah, not a lot of frontal lobe action happening in that bunch. Andy was more restrained than I thought he'd be, even blasting the door into slivers.

To be clear, I shouldn't say Andy's mostly scowling all the time -- I thought Percy Hynes White was much better in the pilot than in the two episodes that have followed; maybe the scripts aren't giving him as much to do.

[KaleyFirefly]

Will every episode depend on a teenager doing something stupid? I really hope not.

So if Reed had not encountered the cutest little mutant girl on the planet, he totally would have betrayed them.

About Dreamer altering Blink's memories -- I really hope this will not lead to a boring/annoying love triangle. And I don't understand why Dreamer & John can't be a couple and work together like Marcos and Lorna were doing. 

This episode was OK but seemed mostly a setup for next week's episode. The stuff with the mutant-hating neighbors was a bit heavy-handed. And that kid Andy is going to kill someone soon.

[Sandman]

9 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I think that it is just a matter of time before Lorna will be able to use her full powers and overcome the collar. 

I am certain that she will overcome the collar shortly, but it appears massively taxing to her physically, and I'm sure her baby won't be allowed to survive. Enter Pissed-Off Polaris, Crazy Badass!

9 hours ago, KaleyFirefly said:

And I don't understand why Dreamer & John can't be a couple and work together like Marcos and Lorna were doing. 

Huh. I immediately assumed "It's better if we just work together" was the Mutant Underground version of "It's not you, it's me." Johnny is a sensible boy, and let the mind-rapey whammy-slinger down easy.

Edited October 17, 2017 by Sandman
Though in the case of Dreamer, it's probably more "It's not me; it's totally you."

[Raja]

28 minutes ago, KaleyFirefly said:

 

About Dreamer altering Blink's memories -- I really hope this will not lead to a boring/annoying love triangle. And I don't understand why Dreamer & John can't be a couple and work together like Marcos and Lorna were doing. 

This episode was OK but seemed mostly a setup for next week's episode. The stuff with the mutant-hating neighbors was a bit heavy-handed. And that kid Andy is going to kill someone soon.

Because Johnny was a Marine and learned their principles and now as the commander he can't allow it to go there. One of the many burdens he carries.

The hate is part of the franchise, the bounty hunting nature unwilling to give up after the demonstration of Mutant power was goofy.

[Mysteris]

Pretty good episode. I have to agree with the others who said this Dreamer chick is bad news. Also, I loved the interaction between Andy and his cousin, bonding over Medal of Honor. They really nailed the teenage vibe there.

 

As for Andy versus the Darwin Award winners? I say the kid had a point. They want to bring shotguns and a lynch mob to a superpower fight, I say let the kid show them why that's a dumb idea. Proudstar and Eclipse could handle that bunch of clowns without killing anyone. Sure, they'll fear and hate mutants even more, but in the immediate term they'll know not to mess with these particular mutants.

 

Poor Blink. Now she's got foreign memories to mess her up. I hope she'll be okay. I kind of like that Blink is not some hardened freedom fighter but is just a scared kid with teleporting powers.

Edited October 17, 2017 by Mysteris

[RachelKM]

I enjoyed this episode.  I liked the last two more, but this still kept up the pace.  And I agree with the comment above that it works to have Caitlyn and Reed take incremental steps toward being full TeamMutant after being fully part of the established regime just a week ago.  Learning their children are mutants and being on the run to protect them made them check some biases, but it wouldn't completely alter their world view until they got a real glimpse of the reality mutants live daily, beyond any one immediate crisis. 

It's probably too much to hope for, but I would really like the resolution of Dreamer's whammy on Blink to be more about consent and Blink dealing with the fact that she has feelings and memories that are not her own. The fallout from dealing with having your mind altered against your will and having emotions and memories that feel real, but you know are not yours is a far more intriguing concept than the insta-triangle option that seems more likely. 

Edited October 17, 2017 by RachelKM

[blackwing]

Still very much enjoying the show, although I would prefer if there was more Polaris and less Reed.  Some of the acting leaves a lot to be desired.  I still think Stephen Moyer is a mediocre actor and I find myself not really caring about his "inner conflict".  I find Coby Bell to be awful, he has this very flat affect and it just seems like he is playing his same Burn Notice character in a new setting.  Worst of all is the awful Jamie Chung.  She is horrible and it's annoying watching her saying "I can't" over and over again.

I'm liking the mom, the daughter, John and Marcos.

[BooBear]

10 hours ago, stealinghome said:

Aside from that last shot, I thought tonight was a downgrade from the first two episodes. There was too much of Reed out on a storyline island that is still so not compelling at all, and they made Caitlin too dumb and Andy too serial killer-ish. Seriously, that kid needs to chill the fuck out. This is how Magentos get made.

Yes, this was a slow episode. I kind of thought it was a step back for Catlin to still be thinking all this needed was a law suit.  The family vibe on this show is really strong. The kids acted like cousins and brother and sisters.  Catlin should have learned by now that these people know what they are talking about. 

I am surprised Reed was going to give up the underground. I am sure his kids wouldn't have been harmed if he gave that up. Right. Reed, wake up.

Felt bad for blink - dreamer lady is "that mutant" that usually ends up with the brother hood. Useless.  Mostly these guys need to sit down and work on figuring out their powers right now their inability to use them in this biggest liability. 

Plot hole.. why couldn't Reeds daughter put her forcefield in front of the car chasing them? She said she couldn't see but, come on... 

[Sandman]

11 hours ago, BooBear said:

I kind of thought it was a step back for Catlin to still be thinking all this needed was a law suit.  The family vibe on this show is really strong. The kids acted like cousins and brother and sisters.  Catlin should have learned by now that these people know what they are talking about. 

I think it's quite realistic for Caitlin to be relying on what she has known about her life up till now; I don't think it was ever only about "just a law suit" -- Caitlyn's used to having a certain amount of influence through people in the power structure -- certain powers of her own, if you will -- and had to experience directly that those powers no longer operate. The kids haven't been mutants very long -- at least, they haven't lived the marginalized existence that a lot of (most?) mutant kids their age have -- and they briefly went back to being "just normal teenagers" hanging out with their cousin, playing video games, ragging on each other. It must take a lot, I think, to completely re-sort your life around not just a new identity, but a whole new way of understanding the world. I'd have been disappointed if Caitlin immediately transitioned into "And Now I Am A Freedom Fighter."

I've never seen Coby Bell in anything else (that I recall), and I can't tell if he's terrible, or if Jace (which, ucch) is just a one-note d-bag. My money's on the writing for this character being thin. I don't think Jamie Chung's all that bad, actually. Those green contacts that make me wince, though. Aiiiee. I totally agree with blackwing about Moyer; I think he's very limited, and I find I don't care about Reed very much.

Edited October 18, 2017 by Sandman

[benteen]

11 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I enjoy Gifted way more than both those shows and think it stands on its own. Legion, I think is self-indulgent claptrap.

Thank you!  I really wanted to like Legion but it was a chore to try to get through an episode and I stopped trying during the second one.  Supergirl can be fun when they're not lecturing, telling us how great Kara, giving us inane plot and story points and not continuing their prolonged hissy fit about the election.

I liked how Lauren and Andy's cousin wasn't an intolerant asshole to them about their powers (like Bobby's parents in the second X-Men movie) and loved the idea that they had powers.  Then I wanted to immediately smack him upside the head for being stupid enough to send that picture to his friend.

I do love that they are using John Proudstar for this show and retaining aspects of his character, like having served in the Marines.

[SimoneS]

On 10/17/2017 at 8:51 AM, BooBear said:

I kind of thought it was a step back for Catlin to still be thinking all this needed was a law suit.  The family vibe on this show is really strong. The kids acted like cousins and brother and sisters.  Catlin should have learned by now that these people know what they are talking about. 

I am surprised Reed was going to give up the underground. I am sure his kids wouldn't have been harmed if he gave that up. Right. Reed, wake up.

I think that it is would have unrealistic for  both Reed and Caitlin not to try to resolve or negotiate a resolution to their situation within the system in which they have lived and prospered in their whole lives. After all, they both have an influential social network of family and friends who are prosecutors and politicians. They never gave a second thought to the mutants who Reed was rounding up, convincing themselves that the mutants would be fine as long as they worked with the judicial system. They are probably only vaguely aware about the experimentation that Sentinel is conducting on mutants. It is no wonder that they are having a difficult time accepting that they and their children are now the "others" and that their safe comfortable lives are permanently over. Until there is a political and societal change towards mutants, hiding, running, and fighting is all that is in their future .

Edited October 21, 2017 by SimoneS

[Sandman]

22 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

They are probably only vaguely aware about the experimentation that Sentinel is conducting on mutants. It is no wonder that they are having a difficult time accepting that they and their children are now the "others" and that their safe comfortable lives are permanently over.

Well put.

I wonder, though, if Sentinel Services is only indirectly involved in any experimentation. Jace said something about not handing detainees over to "contractors" in his conversation with Dr. Creepy Campbell (Garret Dillahunt). Or maybe the distinction between Sentinel Services and those conducting any experiments is only for "official" purposes. The fact that Jace appears to be unnerved by Dr. Campbell intrigues me, if only because it seems to be rare for him to have an emotional response, no matter how muted. 

[Jlina]

Coby Bell was in a black sitcom where he was a football star tight ass with money....and eventually got injured or did roids or something.  I really like him, he's understated.  I think he and Moyer are great together. 

I looked at the change of heart as just a plot point to get to next week, although I really thought he'd just tell one of them about the tracker and they'd vanish it.  The vanishing van was cool.

Amy Aker is amazing!

Oh and Dreamer girl was real psycho in Revenge, she's got range she's not showing yet...

Edited October 18, 2017 by Jlina
Spellcheck changed words

[Irishmaple]

I remember Coby Bell from Burn Notice and before that as a rookie cop on Third Watch.  Both of his characters were straight-arrows and a bit tightly wound. I've always liked him though. He always looks like he wants to smile but the writing doesn't allow for it. 

[Jodithgrace]

Quote

As soon as Caitlyn's brother opened the door, I knew she was screwed. I've seen that actor way too often and he cannot be trusted.

But he does seem to be trustworthy. He took them in, albeit reluctantly, and didn't betray them as I feared he might. The son was a dingdong, but that wasn't his father's fault. I think the brother will end up being an ally, on the outside, which they can certainly use.

I am enjoying this show, also. That dreamer chick is heading for trouble. Apparently, she's already messed up a couple of times. No wonder Johnny wants to keep a "professional" relationship. 

[SimoneS]

6 hours ago, Sandman said:

Well put.

I wonder, though, if Sentinel Services is only indirectly involved in any experimentation. Jace said something about not handing detainees over to "contractors" in his conversation with Dr. Creepy Campbell (Garret Dillahunt). Or maybe the distinction between Sentinel Services and those conducting any experiments is only for "official" purposes. The fact that Jace appears to be unnerved by Dr. Campbell intrigues me, if only because it seems to be rare for him to have an emotional response, no matter how muted. 

Good point. It seems like Sentinel is using the products that result from the private contractors who experiment on the mutants. Jace's reaction to Campbell makes me think that he knows or has heard stories about the experimentation that they do on mutants and wants no direct part of it. I expect that he will have to make a moral choice about the Strucker siblings at some point. Is he willing to hand them over or will he let them escape. This is so typical of societies where a group is being treated immorally because of some characteristic. Everyone else turns the other way as the injustice is occurring so they can claim that they didn't know or that they didn't do it or that is being exaggerated. Reed, Caitlin, Caitlin's brother, and Jace are all having to face the truth about the society in which they live and make the difficult moral decisions. The Gifted is succeeding in its social commentary where Inhumans has completely failed. 

 

1 hour ago, Jodithgrace said:

But he does seem to be trustworthy. He took them in, albeit reluctantly, and didn't betray them as I feared he might. The son was a dingdong, but that wasn't his father's fault. I think the brother will end up being an ally, on the outside, which they can certainly use.

I agree. I thought that Caitlin's brother and nephew's reactions were going to be similar to Bobby's family in the X-Men movie. Instead the show went for a realist nuanced reaction. No one goes from loving their family members (even if they aren't close) to endangering their lives and freedom by turning them into the authorities. I thought the brother did the best that he could under the circumstances. He refused to use his contacts, but risked his life to protect Caitlin and kids by going out to confront the mob. When he realized how much danger they were in, he made the calls to his contacts, got money for them, and offered his cabin. There wasn't much more he could do. The nephew was a typical teen, excited about his cousins' mutant powers and stupidly sending a photo to a friend, but didn't act afraid, calling the cops. This is why I am enjoyed The Gifted so much. The writing is strong and the relationships are realistic. 

Edited October 17, 2017 by SimoneS

[Sandman]

2 hours ago, Irishmaple said:

... and before that [Coby Bell] as a rookie cop on Third Watch.  

THAT's where I've seen him before! I knew he looked familiar, but I never really watched that show. Thanks, Irishmaple!

9 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Jace's reaction to Campbell makes me think that he knows or has heard stories about the experimentation that they do on mutants and wants no direct part of it. I expect that he will have to make a moral choice about the Strucker siblings at some point. Is he willing to hand them over or will he let them escape?

That's what I thought as well.

Edited October 17, 2017 by Sandman

[Richness]

These Gifted mutants are so much better than the Inhumans. The had a slightly more hopeful aspect to this episode than in the previous two by showing us the joy they got when they first discovered their powers. Plus, the cousin was really impressed with the powers. I'm gonna need more of this good stuff if I'm to continue with this series. All the doom and gloom will make true enjoyment difficult despite how good the series may be.

[CooperTV]

Every uneven episode that had some great, moving scenes but seemed mostly like it didn't go anywhere. The opening with Lorna and Marcus was wonderful, I thought, and Lorna's constant struggle in the prison felt even more real after that. The dad dealing with the victims of the system he had been part of for so many years was also great. I think this part of the plot had the best acting out of all episode.

Kate running away to her brother for help seemed redundant but it was clear it was also to show how Andy was getting radicalized. The Poison Ivy or whatever she's called's story with the Teleport Girl and ~Johnny~ was meh. Those actors don't have enough charisma to bring together not very good script.

On 17.10.2017 at 5:05 AM, stealinghome said:

Instead, the writers have them make out (of course).

Lorna is currently pregnant with Marcos's child. The strictly friendship scenes between them don't exactly make sense at this point, imo, since the Aurora Borealis scene was Lorna remembering the good times with he boyfriend.

Edited October 18, 2017 by CooperTV

[shrewd.buddha]

On 10/16/2017 at 10:05 PM, stealinghome said:

... they made Caitlin too dumb and Andy too serial killer-ish. Seriously, that kid needs to chill the fuck out.

I lost sympathy for the family when the kid basically decided that it was okay to become bank robbers - but opted to just destroy property and steal money from parking meters. And the Mom just went along with it for the most part. Very bad parenting skills.
The mutants may be unfairly targeted, but now they are leaving behind a trail of crime and destruction. People are not going to care about treating them fairly if the mutants are burning down their houses and stealing things. 

It looks like the show is going to be a weekly "escape from the bad guys" event. There were about five other ways John and Marcos could have lost the anti-mutant militia guys chasing them -- but it had to involve Blink .. because : more drama. 

Everything is constantly desperate and dire, and there is no almost no downtime. Lorna, Reed, and the gang at MUH (mutant underground HQ) are still in the same situations they were in two episodes ago.  

Seeing characters from comics brought to life is enjoyable - but it's going to be hard to stick with a show that's not much fun. 

Edited October 18, 2017 by shrewd.buddha

[wayne67]

4 hours ago, shrewd.buddha said:

I lost sympathy for the family when the kid basically decided that it was okay to become bank robbers - but opted to just destroy property and steal money from parking meters. And the Mom just went along with it for the most part. Very bad parenting skills.
The mutants may be unfairly targeted, but now they are leaving behind a trail of crime and destruction. People are not going to care about treating them fairly if the mutants are burning down their houses and stealing things. 

I feel that if a government agency was hunting me down and trying to imprison and or kill me solely because of my potential for destruction, I wouldn't care about some minor property damage. As the saying goes "you might as well be hung for a sheep as for a lamb". At this point they're already on the run from homicidal agencies and their treatment isn't going to get better no matter how well behaved they are from now on. 

At this point Andy didn't hurt anyone even though with his power set he could have crushed every single one of those people in the mob. I'd say he's very far away from being an unrepentant criminal. 

That said I do wish the kids would use their down time more productively and get some training from Proudstar on how to use their powers more effectively. Telekinesis and Shielding could be an awesome combination if it wasn't pulled out randomly and incompetently. 

[Perfect Xero]

Stealing from a bank or an individual would be wrong (though possibly understandable given their circumstances), stealing from the government that is hunting you because of its racist policies is, at worst, a moral gray zone.

[shrewd.buddha]

I could sympathize more if the kids were working to get to Canada or Mexico or some place they could live and work in peace. But if they are going to camp out on the outskirts of the city and steal all their needed supplies, they are going to be a threat to other people whether they are mutants or not. They would basically be a gang of outlaws, which people would justifiably come to fear.

I hope the show doesn't continue with the heavy-handed attitude that all mutants are victims and all normal humans are jerks. Andy was being bullied at school before anyone knew he was a mutant - - so it's sort of a cheat to start saying the normal looking mutants are being targeted for being different. Both humans and mutants can be  jerks.

[wayne67]

8 minutes ago, shrewd.buddha said:

I could sympathize more if the kids were working to get to Canada or Mexico or some place they could live and work in peace. But if they are going to camp out on the outskirts of the city and steal all their needed supplies, they are going to be a threat to other people whether they are mutants or not. They would basically be a gang of outlaws, which people would justifiably come to fear.

I hope the show doesn't continue with the heavy-handed attitude that all mutants are victims and all normal humans are jerks. Andy was being bullied at school before anyone knew he was a mutant - - so it's sort of a cheat to start saying the normal looking mutants are being targeted for being different. Both humans and mutants can be  jerks.

I'm not 100% clear on the show's timeline but I think it's only been a few days since Andy's prom meltdown so the family is still holding out hope that they can be reunited with their lawyer dad/husband. The Mutant Underground is already being treated like a terrorist organisation despite having done nothing particularly violent for political purposes. So far all they're doing is the mutant equivalent of the underground rail road, getting people to places that suck less. As for stealing to survive, they haven't actually hurt anyone to get supplies so they're less of a threat and more of an inconvenience. 

I don't think the show has been making the case that humans suck and mutants are poor little victims. This episode we have a mind raping 'good guy' mutant and we had the Uncle and Cousin having generally positive interactions with the mutant siblings. I think they're doing a good job of showing how there's good and bad in both communities. 

[slf]

9 minutes ago, shrewd.buddha said:

I could sympathize more if the kids were working to get to Canada or Mexico or some place they could live and work in peace. But if they are going to camp out on the outskirts of the city and steal all their needed supplies, they are going to be a threat to other people whether they are mutants or not. They would basically be a gang of outlaws, which people would justifiably come to fear.

I hope the show doesn't continue with the heavy-handed attitude that all mutants are victims and all normal humans are jerks. Andy was being bullied at school before anyone knew he was a mutant - - so it's sort of a cheat to start saying the normal looking mutants are being targeted for being different. Both humans and mutants can be  jerks.

I don't think the show is trying to say that, in fact with Dreamer they have the perfect setup to explore mutants using their powers in immoral ways. But two kids stealing some money or food out of a vending machine isn't comparable to being a gang of outlaws. They're members of a persecuted demographic; the fairly minor crimes they've committed I would define as survival crime (which we see all the time in our world; homeless kids, for example, often steal to survive). I mean, can you unfairly target a group of people (especially to the degree we've seen on the show) and demand they be law-abiding citizens? I don't believe so. 

[SimoneS]

1 hour ago, shrewd.buddha said:

I could sympathize more if the kids were working to get to Canada or Mexico or some place they could live and work in peace. But if they are going to camp out on the outskirts of the city and steal all their needed supplies, they are going to be a threat to other people whether they are mutants or not. They would basically be a gang of outlaws, which people would justifiably come to fear.

I hope the show doesn't continue with the heavy-handed attitude that all mutants are victims and all normal humans are jerks. Andy was being bullied at school before anyone knew he was a mutant - - so it's sort of a cheat to start saying the normal looking mutants are being targeted for being different. Both humans and mutants can be  jerks.

The theme of The Gifted as in the X-Men universe is that the persecution of mutants by the non-mutant society so this isn't a cheat.  Of course, there are bad and good mutants as there are good and bad non-mutants, however, it is the non-mutants who are capturing, imprisoning, persecuting, and experimenting on the mutants. Sentinel was going to take barely controlled teenage Andy and Lauren from their parents. How is that justice?  Also, the mutant network isn't "camped out" in the city to steal. They are running underground network to rescue mutants in dire situations to get them to safety. 

Edited October 19, 2017 by SimoneS

[stealinghome]

2 hours ago, slf said:

I don't think the show is trying to say that, in fact with Dreamer they have the perfect setup to explore mutants using their powers in immoral ways. But two kids stealing some money or food out of a vending machine isn't comparable to being a gang of outlaws. They're members of a persecuted demographic; the fairly minor crimes they've committed I would define as survival crime (which we see all the time in our world; homeless kids, for example, often steal to survive). I mean, can you unfairly target a group of people (especially to the degree we've seen on the show) and demand they be law-abiding citizens? I don't believe so. 

I hear what you're saying, but I have a mixed reaction to it. On the one hand, I fully agree that you can't persecute a minority to the degree that we've seen mutants be persecuted on the show and still expect those people to be perfect law-abiding citizens. On the other hand, imo part of what the X-men mythos has always invested in (that I think the show is trying to support) is the idea that even if others around you are doing bad things, you should still hold yourself to a higher standard and act in accordance with that higher standard. That you don't sink to the level of the people persecuting you, even if it would be fair for you to do so. I mean, that's part of why we root for the X-men, right? They show that they are heroes by being better on a moral level. They model the behavior they think the world should have. (Also, with great power comes great responsibility, two wrongs don't make a right, and all that jazz.)

Also, to me, there's a difference between Andy and Lauren stealing from the vending machine in the pilot--which I agree is normal, harmless teenager stuff--and Andy being like half a step away from "I should be able to rob banks willy-nilly whenever I want! Anyone who comes after us, let's kill them all!" I'm not saying Andy and Lauren and Caitlin and the Mutant Underground don't have the right to defend themselves, absolutely not. But, Andy was taking it beyond self-defense in his feelings and rhetoric in this ep. Note that Johnny and Marcos went out of their way to avoid killing (or even hurting) anyone, even when that would've been the most expedient way out. Johnny said several times "we need to get out of this without bodies." They were trying to find the most peaceful solution possible. We root for them because they've shown their moral superiority. So when contrasted with their "let's avoid harm as much as possible," Andy's bloodthirstiness is a little unsettling. The tone of Andy's speech wasn't "let's get out of this as fast and cleanly as possible, and if that means we have to crack a few eggs, regrettable but okay." It was "HULK SMASH PUNY HUMANS I WANT THEM TO BE SORRY." While I think that attitude is understandable (especially given that he was being bullied at school and so has a lot of strong feelings swirling around being persecuted), it's not acceptable. That's how little Magnetos are made. Same deal with the bank--the fact that "let's go rob a bank!" was an OTT sentiment was handily proven by the fact that they got along just as well by busting a few parking meters. Busting a few parking meters is more on the level of stealing from the vending machine. Robbing a bank is just a whole different kettle of fish (not least because of the potential for casualties).

Edited October 19, 2017 by stealinghome

[immortalfrieza]

On 10/17/2017 at 7:51 AM, BooBear said:

I kind of thought it was a step back for Catlin to still be thinking all this needed was a law suit.  The family vibe on this show is really strong. The kids acted like cousins and brother and sisters.  Catlin should have learned by now that these people know what they are talking about. 

I am surprised Reed was going to give up the underground. I am sure his kids wouldn't have been harmed if he gave that up. Right. Reed, wake up

Agreed. While I get that the two might still have some residual feelings out of habit that the system can actually be worked with, the last 2 episodes really should have been far more than enough to prove to both of them that the system is completely and utterly against mutants and anyone who associates with them. It's unbearably naive of both Catlin and Reed to honestly believe the government has anything other than a "capture or kill" mentality regarding mutants this episode, it was already pretty naive for either of them to believe that before the series started in the first place. I gave the two enough of a pass the first couple episodes because neither of them had actually personally been victims of the mutant persecution but now both of them have I have no sympathy for either of them.

In particular, I was SO sure last episode that Reed was just playing Mr. Sentinel and had some sort of plan to get free or screw them over before getting caught, but he was actually genuinely buying into their nonsense. After the lengths the Sentinel cops went to in order to try and capture Reed's family in the first episode and the lengths they then went to in order to get him to talk last episode he's a total moron to actually believe a word they say much less actually help them.

As mentioned by others Andy has "go crazy and become a villain" written all over him this episode, he even has those "I'm just one more person screwing with me away from snapping" eyes I often see on villains and soon to be villains, like they haven't slept in a week. Someone mentioned this is how Magnetos are made and it's obvious that's what the writers are going for, first he's using his powers for selfish if perfectly justified reasons, now he's all "if they want a fight, let's give them one!" The next step is for Andy to kill someone probably accidentally and then agonize over it, the last will be deciding to kill someone intentionally no matter how justified and then he'll suddenly decide that's cause to go full villain and start murdering people left and right just because he can. I sincerely hope they aren't going for that really really predictable route.

On 10/17/2017 at 0:12 AM, Mysteris said:

As for Andy versus the Darwin Award winners? I say the kid had a point. They want to bring shotguns and a lynch mob to a superpower fight, I say let the kid show them why that's a dumb idea. Proudstar and Eclipse could handle that bunch of clowns without killing anyone. Sure, they'll fear and hate mutants even more, but in the immediate term they'll know not to mess with these particular mutants.

It doesn't even matter that the Darwin Award Winners fear and hate mutants more anyway. The comics have repeatedly shown that humans downright fear and hate mutants to an absolutely psychotic extent no matter what they do and are obsessed with destroying mutants in every way they think they can get away with. With only a select few exceptions all related to the family of the Struckers that this show's universe has demonstrated it is no exception. There's a big BIG difference between turning the other cheek because you hold yourself to a higher moral standard and being a complete idiot that sticks to ideals that have shown to be completely against reality in every way. Especially after dealing with the mutant persecution themselves anyone that thinks that humans and mutants will ever end in anything other than one side completely annihilating the other down to the last man is an idiot, pure and simple.

[shrewd.buddha]

8 hours ago, immortalfrieza said:

Especially after dealing with the mutant persecution themselves anyone that thinks that humans and mutants will ever end in anything other than one side completely annihilating the other down to the last man is an idiot, pure and simple.

If I thought the show was taking this attitude, I would stopped watching immediately. In the real world we have people who are persecuted for their religion and their race. When extremists on either side think there is no way to one day live together peacefully we end up with suicide bombers and genocide.  In the movies, Magneto was a terrorist (and genetic racist). He killed hundreds (thousands) of innocent people. When one of his most loyal followers lost her mutant powers (Mystique), he abandoned her. I never understood why Xavier kept allowing him to do that. 
(Fun fact : according to the movies, the guy who tortured Magneto and killed his parents in the concentration camp was also a mutant - - not a human.) 

For this show, it seems as if Marcos and the Underground Mutants don't realize the climate of fear they are creating. Yes, it's okay to defend yourself when necessary and avoid an unfair arrest.
But when Marcos and Caitlin robbed from one of the few medical clinics that were helping mutants, they kind of ruined it for all the other mutants who might need to go there. After the shootout and all, it's mostly likely the clinic would become under constant surveillance. They could have left some money behind at least. 

Personally, if my house were robbed or my car was stolen, I wouldn't exactly be okay with it if the people who did it thought they had no other choice because of their circumstances. 

Edited October 19, 2017 by shrewd.buddha

[slf]

14 hours ago, stealinghome said:

Also, to me, there's a difference between Andy and Lauren stealing from the vending machine in the pilot--which I agree is normal, harmless teenager stuff--and Andy being like half a step away from "I should be able to rob banks willy-nilly whenever I want! Anyone who comes after us, let's kill them all!" I'm not saying Andy and Lauren and Caitlin and the Mutant Underground don't have the right to defend themselves, absolutely not. But, Andy was taking it beyond self-defense in his feelings and rhetoric in this ep.

I get that but that wasn't what I was arguing. I was arguing that a) I don't think the show is taking the stance that mutants are all victims who can do no wrong, and b) that the kids stealing things is comparable to them being some outlaw gang that locals might come to justifiably fear.

[Sandman]

20 hours ago, stealinghome said:

The tone of Andy's speech wasn't "let's get out of this as fast and cleanly as possible, and if that means we have to crack a few eggs, regrettable but okay." It was "HULK SMASH PUNY HUMANS I WANT THEM TO BE SORRY." While I think that attitude is understandable (especially given that he was being bullied at school and so has a lot of strong feelings swirling around being persecuted), it's not acceptable. That's how little Magnetos are made.

But I think the show is quite explicit in its expectation that the audience will both understand why Andy is as angry as he is, and be horrified by the potential of what he might become. Does Andy recognize that if he keeps making the angry, "they deserve this for what they've done to me" choices he will end up a monster? Not yet, I would say. I think there's some hope that he still might. He didn't try to crush or torture the neighbourhood vigilantes; he just wanted to drive them away. But Andy's moral choices are going to be an ongoing thread in the show, I'm sure. It may be that Dreamer's choices are, as well, but I'm not as cetain about that.

[wayne67]

12 hours ago, shrewd.buddha said:

If I thought the show was taking this attitude, I would stopped watching immediately. In the real world we have people who are persecuted for their religion and their race. When extremists on either side think there is no way to one day live together peacefully we end up with suicide bombers and genocide.  In the movies, Magneto was a terrorist (and genetic racist). He killed hundreds (thousands) of innocent people. When one of his most loyal followers lost her mutant powers (Mystique), he abandoned her. I never understood why Xavier kept allowing him to do that. 
(Fun fact : according to the movies, the guy who tortured Magneto and killed his parents in the concentration camp was also a mutant - - not a human.) 

In the movies, the future always end up with giant robots murdering mutants and humans because humans may eventually pop out mutant children. 

In the present of this show, they are sending killer robot spiders to murder any mutants and humans in the way whenever someone doesn't meekly submit to government capture. Once captured those mutants are collared and made defenseless against other human inmates who will happily beat them for the lols. Mutants are doomed regardless of how well they behave.

In reality, mutants would win because they have superpowers and their genes are far superior than those of the average human but because it's fiction, humanity has to create robots to try and counteract natural selection. 

Also it's far easier for the Xmen to maintain the moral high ground when they live in a mansion and the solution to most of their problems involve killing the 'bad mutants'. It's far harder to be morally righteous when you're separated from your loved ones, being chased by oppressive government institutions and have no money. 

Edited to add: When Andy wanted to 'rob' the bank, I assumed he was planning on ripping the ATM that was in the background from out of the wall, or just smashing it open from the inside. Were we supposed to assume he wanted to rob the vault or something ? through a bunch of bystanders ? Because I didn't get that impression at all. 

Edited October 20, 2017 by wayne67
follow up

[SimoneS]

People keep suggesting that Andy could turn into Magneto if he gives in to his anger, but he could easily become Logan or Mystique who both have had significant anger issues with non-mutants, yet managed to find a balance. Andy's anger issues add drama to what could be a predictable story.

Also, I don't get why some people expect the mutants to sanguine about being persecuted, locked up, tortured, and experimented on. If you were a mutant, you wouldn't give a toss that the non-mutants who are persecuting you were afraid or upset that you stole some drugs to save someone's life or their car when you are desperate to survive.

 

2 hours ago, wayne67 said:

In the present of this show, they are sending killer robot spiders to murder any mutants and humans in the way whenever someone doesn't meekly submit to government capture. Once captured those mutants are collared and made defenseless against other human inmates who will happily beat them for the lols. Mutants are doomed regardless of how well they behave.

I have always blamed Charles' a bit for the mutants always being on the backfoot. If he teamed up with Eric (reigning him in), the mutants would probably hold their own and at least there would be a draw with the non-mutants.

Edited October 20, 2017 by SimoneS

[Perfect Xero]

2 hours ago, SimoneS said:

People keep suggesting that Andy could turn into Magneto if he gives in to his anger, but he could easily become Logan or Mystique who both have had significant anger issues with non-mutants, yet managed to find a balance. Andy's anger issues add drama to what could be a predictable story.

Also, I don't get why some people expect the mutants to sanguine about being persecuted, locked up, tortured, and experimented on. If you were a mutant, you wouldn't give a toss that the non-mutants who are persecuting you were afraid or upset that you stole some drugs to save someone's life or their car when you are desperate to survive.

 

I have always blamed Charles' a bit for the mutants always being on the backfoot. If he teamed up with Eric (reigning him in), the mutants would probably hold their own and at least there would be a draw with the non-mutants.

Erik usually isn't one for being reigned in when he goes into 'Kill all humans' mode though, his response tends to be, "Okay, I'll paralyze you for life then."

[thuganomics85]

Found this episode to be a bit slower and filler-like compared to the other two, but I still enjoyed it and I am intrigued over what is being set-up.

So, Elena Satine's character is called Dreamer, and her mutant power is that she can implant memories into people's heads?  Does it have to be her memories (like she did with Clarissa/Blink) or can be fake ones, too?  Either way, I have a feeling they are setting things up to make her shady somehow.  Granted, that could just be because Elena Satine tends to play those types of roles.

Knew Kate's plan was going to backfire (although Danny did come around at the end, I guess), but I guess she's still at the stage where she believes (or wants to) that the law can protect them, even though that clearly isn't going to be on the table.  Good think the mutants stepped things up.  But Andy does seem to slowly be getting more violent-happy now.  Magneto would approve!

Surprised Reed actually did intend to betray the Mutant Underground, until he met the mutant mom and daughter, and felt guilty about it.  Glad he changed his mind, but now his and his family's fate is in Jace's hands, who really is not coming off like a nice guy, heh.

Another scene of sinister Dr. Garett Dillahunt with his sinister beard being sinister!  Can't wait till we find out what his deal is.

[Sandman]

10 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

So, Elena Satine's character is called Dreamer, and her mutant power is that she can implant memories into people's heads?  Does it have to be her memories (like she did with Clarissa/Blink) or can be fake ones, too?  Either way, I have a feeling they are setting things up to make her shady somehow.  Granted, that could just be because Elena Satine tends to play those types of roles.

I don't think they are setting her up to be shady -- she's there already. Her mutant power may not be as explosively destructive as Andy's, but it is by its nature at the very least potentially immoral. (Its only ethical or moral use, as far as I can see, would be to get someone's consent before altering their memories, which we have not seen her do.) Messing with someone's memories seems like a fundamental violation, and might even have the potential to alter not only their relationships with others, and their motivations (as we saw with Blink), but also alter the basis and structure of their personality. Are we even sure that Dreamer's relationship with Johnny is based on actual events? Can he be sure? 

(One of the fundamental differences between Xavier in the movies and the (early) conception of the character in the comics, is that Charles refused, for ethical reasons, to alter other people's memories or convictions, or to control the minds of others. One the clues that Charles has that Jean is gradually being corrupted by her Phoenix-level power is that she begins to alter the moods and responses of the humans around her to avoid trouble. He tries to get her to see how inappropriate this is, and she blows him off, basically. Such an ethical stand is never even hinted at by Movie Charles. I always found that disturbing.)

Edited October 20, 2017 by Sandman

[immortalfrieza]

6 hours ago, Sandman said:

I don't think they are setting her up to be shady -- she's there already. Her mutant power may not be as explosively destructive as Andy's, but it is by its nature at the very least potentially immoral. (Its only ethical or moral use, as far as I can see, would be to get someone's consent before altering their memories, which we have not seen her do.)

Well, there's the "I did what I had to do" thing during this episode, or altering an enemy's memories to render them a nontheat or make them forget things that would keep Dreamer and the other mutants safe, but those are a more morally grey area. However, Johnny heavily implies there's far worse consequences to the use of her power than false memories simply altering the person's personality or the trauma they might experience from realizing their head was screwed with.

Edited October 20, 2017 by immortalfrieza