S01.E05: Choose Your Pain

[starri]

Quote

While on a mission, Lorca unexpectedly finds himself in the company of prisoner of war Starfleet Lieutenant Ash Tyler and notorious intergalactic criminal Harry Mudd. Burnham voices her concerns about the repercussions of the spore drive jumps on "Ripper".

As I said in the Media thread, I'm GOING to choose my pain!  I NEED my pain!

[marinw]

A Clockwork Orange: The gift that keeps on giving.

I like this version of Harry Mudd.

So in this era Starfleet is ok with prison labour and enslaving alien creatures to do things against their will.

A futurey toothbrush!

Does Doctor Boyfriend have a name? He and Stamet are a cute couple.

Edited October 16, 2017 by marinw

[CanadaPhil]

Yes... 

Oh... and also drop F-Bombs... two at a time!!

[Clare]

I think this was my favourite episode.  People were being likeable and very little Klingon.  I was almost out after last week but I'm still hanging on.  Stamets and the doctor are cute.

I'm interested in Rainn Wilson's character.  Finally I'm finding something to enjoy.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Here's a question -- if the Discovery can go anywhere in the known galaxy with it's fungus-powered version of the Blink drive from 'Dark Matter', why wasn't the Discovery within transporter range of the space station for the confab with the Admiral ?  That seemed like a really lame reason for Lorca to get kidnapped -- Klingons warp in and intercept the transporter beam, now maybe hat I could buy.  And the Discovery couldn't detect the incoming warp trail ?

The Klingons need to learn a little about effective prisoner mgmt. from the modern day Romans from the TOS episode 'Breaad and Circuses' -- who should lingering around on a planet somewhere.

How did the Klingons even learn Lorca's name -- didn't the Discovery destroy all the Klingon ships at Corvan 2 ?  So who was left to phone home to the Klingons ?
 

33 minutes ago, CanadaPhil said:

Yes... 

Oh... and also drop F-Bombs... two at a time!!

That was surprising.  Especially in the 8 o'clock hour.

Wasn't big fan of Saru's pity party/jealousy of Burnham.

And I guess the tardigrade injection did have one lingering side-effect on Stamets -- quite literally a mirror universe version of himself.  In his bathroom mirror.
 

42 minutes ago, marinw said:

Does Doctor Boyfriend have a name? He and Stamet are a cute couple.

Doctor boyfriend's name is Dr. Hugh Culber.

Edited October 16, 2017 by ottoDbusdriver

[marinw]

3 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Doctor boyfriend's name is Dr. Hugh Culber

Thank you for that. I thought I heard him say something about the CMO. I though Dr. Culber was the CMO.

5 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

The Klingons need to learn a little about effective prisoner mgmt.

And not letting the puny human prisoners beat them up. 

Edited October 16, 2017 by marinw

[Florinaldo]

So the ST universe now has an official gay couple amongst its cast of regular characters. I wonder how writer David Gerrold feels about seeing this finally happening; at the time ST:TNG was being planned he lobbied Gene Roddenbery for the inclusion of gay characters or some gay-related storylines in the "egalitarian" future ST depicted. Despite assurances, it never happened. I suppose he may console himself with the fact that with a lot of patience, one can eventually get one's wish.

As creator of the Tribbles way back in his script for the original series, he may also be pleased to see a specimen of that species featured on the new captain's desk.

I liked the way the reveal that they are in a relationship was treated, with no major dramatic writing and very matter of factly.

This was probably the most engaging episode of the series, delving deeper into many of the characters and developing the concept of the new drive system, which humans can operate as it turns out; perhaps the double in the mirror is a side effect that will be one of the reasons it is eventually abandoned and does not survive later in the ST chronology. And it was nice to see at least some Starfleet officers find their ethical roots when it comes to the treatment of another sentient species.

Harry Mudd is much less garrulous and effusive than his later self, more cynical also (after spending time in a Klingon prison, who wouldn't be); I am sure he will come back to make more trouble and I look forward to it.

[starri]

I was kind of iffy when the news of the F-bomb leaked a while ago, but I have to admit, given Tilly's overwhelming enthusiasm towards everything, it worked in context.  The moment was apparently an improv with Mary Wiseman and Anthony Rapp, and it actually felt...natural, somehow?

I am biased, because I am also a gay doctor, but in the bathroom mirror scene, Paul and Hugh rocketed past Trip/T'Pol and Riker/Troi to come very close to Miles and Keiko as my favorite Star Trek couple.  Rapp and Cruz have real chemistry.

Ash is...so much pretty.

Nice scenes between Michael and Saru.

I really, really liked Rainn Wilson's Mudd.

I guess to be a great Starfleet captain, you either have to command the Enterprise or be Georgiou.

Edited October 16, 2017 by starri

[CanadaPhil]

26 minutes ago, Clare said:

I think this was my favourite episode.  People were being likeable and very little Klingon.  

And.... The Klingons spoke English!

I was first thinking that Ash was a plant.. as in an agent of the Klingons. But the way he backed up Lorca and acted selflessly in the escape was very badass. I assume he will be Discovery's gung ho crewman going forward.

And Stamets also acted selflessly in going against Saru and putting himself on the line instead of hurting "Kitty" .

I am liking the way these dynamics are taking shape as they flesh out who these characters are and what makes them tick. 

Edited October 16, 2017 by CanadaPhil

[Irishmaple]

I'm giving the episode kudos for coming right out and saying the male Starfleet prisoner was being raped by the Klingon (female) captain. I had huge issues with the way Agents of SHIELD failed to handle a similar storyline. I hope the character stays on and his experience isn't just brushed under any convenient rugs.

I really liked Stamets in this one. He and Tilley were adorable in their eureka moment. He essentially experimented on himself to save his captain, his crew and the Ripper. I liked him with the doctor too. 

It was a dark episode but I liked it. 

[aemom]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around a 2nd Stamets and whether or not he actually exists in the same phase of space or what. Can the crew actually see him? I guess we'll find out. 

This was the first episode that I really found interesting. 

I would really like to learn more about some of the bridge crew that we see each week. 

Stamets and the doctor are cute together. 

[TV Anonymous]

Ah, two firsts in the Star Trek universe, I see. First "fuck" and first homosexual relationship.

How does the tardigrade get to warp speed? Granted that that creature is virtually invincible but what kind of propulsion does it have?

1 hour ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Here's a question -- if the Discovery can go anywhere in the known galaxy with it's fungus-powered version of the Blink drive from 'Dark Matter', why wasn't the Discovery within transporter range of the space station for the confab with the Admiral ?  That seemed like a really lame reason for Lorca to get kidnapped -- Klingons warp in and intercept the transporter beam, now maybe hat I could buy.  And the Discovery couldn't detect the incoming warp trail ?

(...)

That was surprising.  Especially in the 8 o'clock hour.

1. Has that not been established that Ripper was already in distress? Maybe they chose to utilize it sparingly, only when emergency arose.
2. This show is streamed. AFAIK, streaming is treated like premium cable, everything goes. Bad language and nudity and all...

Edited October 16, 2017 by TV Anonymous

[CanadaPhil]

6 minutes ago, TV Anonymous said:

....

This show is streamed. AFAIK, streaming is treated like premium cable, everything goes. Bad language and nudity and all...

That is probably the case, but I believe that poster is also in Canada and referring to the fact that here it is NOT streamed and it airs in an 8pm time slot. 

[Emily Thrace]

14 minutes ago, CanadaPhil said:

That is probably the case, but I believe that poster is also in Canada and referring to the fact that here it is NOT streamed and it airs in an 8pm time slot. 

Canadian rules are different though BSG aired unedited in the same slot. There are no specific rules about language and words that can't be used in prime time. Its all evaluated on a case by case basis. Fuck has been used on Canadian tv before in the same timslot. The torture would probably be more likely to get flagged than the language. Since the violence was pulled back the episode as a whole was probably okay with the Canadian sensors.

[aemom]

As for the language allowed on Canadian TV, if memory serves, it would not be okay on any of the "free" channels (CTV, CBC, and Global) except possibly late at night. However, I remember taping Season 1 of Dexter on CTV at midnight years ago, and the language was dubbed over.

Any other Canadian channel is considered cable, and they can get away with swearing and nudity at any time.

I might not be 100% right, but that's been my viewing experience. 

[Florinaldo]

33 minutes ago, AEMom said:

Any other Canadian channel is considered cable, and they can get away with swearing and nudity at any time.

Although amusingly, the word "fuck" and a few others get beeped out of The Daily Show airing late at night in Canada on The Comedy Network, which is owned by the same conglomerate as Space and CTV. But the word went out in its full glory tonight, in an 8 PM time slot. I think it is implied that Tilley has Asperger's (mixed with a little Tourette perhaps), which sort of excuses her profanity, but has that been confirmed in her previous appearances?

Space did run an advisory before tonight's episode and I suppose it mentioned language and violence but I tend to tune these out. Since this is the first episode of this new series that I am looking forward to watching again, I will pay closer attention to the advisory when Space reruns it a few times over the next week.

Incidentally, restrictions on language and sexuality are much less strict on the French-language Canadian basic networks.

 

42 minutes ago, Emily Thrace said:

Since the violence was pulled back the episode as a whole was probably okay with the Canadian sensors.

Do you mean an official TV censorship body in Canada? I am not aware of any, except the standards and practices departments of individual networks. And I believe they mostly tend to rely on warnings and do not resort to cutting out violent material.

 

2 hours ago, starri said:

Ash is...so much pretty.

Indeed.

Edited October 16, 2017 by Florinaldo

[DrScottie]

1 hour ago, starri said:

I guess to be a great Starfleet captain, you either have to command the Enterprise or be Georgiou.

Yes, that will technically apply to Commodore Decker too as he assumed command of the Enterprise very briefly in "The Doomsday Device" although that hadn't happened yet.

No other choices? Garrovick (Kirk served and spoke highly of him)) or Garth of Izar? Someone from Captain Archer's time? 

[UNOSEZ]

This better be the last episode saru is so damn pissy with Michael... After this a d he'll deserve a tounge lashing and an ass whipping... Also poor Ash... HE was raging out on his rapist.. That's prib gonna be an issue for him going FWD. 

[DavidJSnyder]

This ship is full of Klingons who are are bad at fighting.

Also, they're in a Klingon cell. The Klingons can have listening devices everywhere. They don't need to work with Harry or put one on a spider.

[TV Anonymous]

46 minutes ago, AEMom said:

As for the language allowed on Canadian TV, if memory serves, it would not be okay on any of the "free" channels (CTV, CBC, and Global) except possibly late at night. However, I remember taping Season 1 of Dexter on CTV at midnight years ago, and the language was dubbed over.

Any other Canadian channel is considered cable, and they can get away with swearing and nudity at any time.

I might not be 100% right, but that's been my viewing experience. 

Sorry for gong a bit out of topic.

Sorry, but you are wrong. The last season of 19-2 just wrapped up this summer on CTV and it is full of "fuck" That show played during primetime.  Season 1 of Dexter on CTV was a simsub from CBS. It was aired on CBS with censor from Showtime because of the writers strike. The word censor came from CBS, not CTV.

[KimberStormer]

I dunnnnnnoooooo guys.  This was another episode where nothing made sense to me, from Lorca being kidnapped in a targeted raid and then left in a regular prison ship with a few completely incompetent Klingons to humans being the only sentient species related to mushrooms -- which must mean that the Intergalactic Space Fungus comes from Earth originally, or it's just that weird a thing to claim, because surely almost every alien species is exactly as related to the other species on their planet as we are to mushrooms.  There were things I liked, but the basic plot just seemed so bizarre.

It was nice to see people other than Michael get to do things, though.  Stamets got to be the hero (I was expecting it to be Michael in that spore tank thing) an have a romantic conversation and an evil mirror doppelganger or something.  The fact that he sacrificed himself in order to not torture the tardigrade was refreshingly Star Trekky.  Ash, who will presumably be returning, will hopefully be cool, though I still can't forgive killing off Landry.  I would have liked it better if Mudd was less totally terrible a human being, especially as it undermined his entire thing about the Federation -- which seems to be a theme they are going to keep at on this show, but DS9 did it better, so far.

4 hours ago, starri said:

Riker/Troi to come very close to Miles and Keiko as my favorite Star Trek couple.  Rapp and Cruz have real chemistry.

Here I thought we had some similar taste but jeez man, Riker/Troi, Miles/Keiko??  Yes, Rapp and Crus have chemistry, unlike the aforementioned!  Miles and Keiko could not possibly have less!

[thuganomics85]

I see this was the episode for them to be all "Yeah, we're on CBS Access, so we don't give a fuck!" about their foul language.  Two fucks in a row!  Nice!!  I know I shouldn't be that amused by it, but the way Mary Wiseman and Anthony Rapp delivered those lines were perfect.

Also got confirmation that Stamets is gay and in a relationship with the doctor.  I thought they were giving off vibes last week, but I wasn't sure if they were an item or exes.  Hopefully they won't use this as some kind of angst, and actually have them be a solid couple throughout it all (just one that snarks on each other and occasionally fights!)

Damn, so in his last command, Lorca basically blew up his ship and killed all of his crew, because he knew that would be actually be kinder then becoming prisoners to the Klingons.  Dude is hardcore!

So, this Ash Tyler character is who this Shazad Latif actor in the opening credits is playing.  I'm guessing Lorca will recruit him for his mission.  Curious to see how he'll play off the rest of the cast.

Really hope Michael and Saru slowly, but surely start making peace with one another.  Their relationship is fascinating though, and I really like how Sonequa Martin-Green and Dough Jones play off one another.

Rainn Wilson was having fun as Harry Mudd.

Enjoyed seeing both Jonathan Archer and Christopher Pike's names in the list of the "best" captains that Saru was trying to learn from.  Even if I'm not sure I fully agree with the former, since; with respect to Scott Bakula; I always found Archer to be kind of a dick, who was lucky that his crew were much better (and more interesting) then him.

Glad the creature got released.

All in all, probably the best episode so far.

[dwmarch]

Agreed, best episode yet!

I'm still wondering about "we don't even have the right number of organs for you!" Did Lorca just inform us that Klingons have two dicks?!?! (It is established canon that Klingons have two hearts, etc. so if they have multiple vital organs they might just have multiple... organ organs.) I always wondered what Troi saw in Worf...

Again with the database weirdness. They're searching for a replacement for the tardigrade and they don't start with humans? Also we have a main computer that will outright suggest murdering one's problems.

I see Capt. Lorca was abducted by the Klingon ship G'lassJaw. I have never been under the impression that a human could break a Klingon's neck bare-handed.

I appreciated that Capt. Lorca knows what a Canary Trap is and used it to figure out who he could trust.

Hey Captain, why don't you get your eyes fixed? Because it's fun jamming needles into them on a daily basis! Way less hassle than trusting a doctor!

The F word is canon now! (We did have the Beastie Boys' "Sabotage" playing on Kirk's radio when he stole his uncle's car back in Star Trek 2009 and the line about 'This fuckin' thorn in my side' is very clear but we've never had a character drop it yet.)

[KimberStormer]

Surely Rapist Klingon Spy Natasha who now has a half-burned face because the phaser didn't disintegrate her like all the other Klingons is going to be a recurring villain now, right?  How do we feel about that?

[starri]

5 minutes ago, KimberStormer said:

Surely Rapist Klingon Spy Natasha who now has a half-burned face because the phaser didn't disintegrate her like all the other Klingons is going to be a recurring villain now, right?  How do we feel about that?

That was L'Rell.  She's already a recurring villain.

[KimberStormer]

Really??  Are you sure??  She seemed completely different to me, voice, look, everything.  I guess it was the language.  She didn't come with Voq on his quest to get brains and da noive from the Villainous Matriarchs then?

[starri]

It was she, although I wasn't sure at first either.  Maybe it's the difference with her finally being well-lit.

Regarding your second question 

Spoiler

A lot of people are speculating that Ash is actually Voq, although I don't know how they could manage that unless Hugh is REALLY bad at his job.

I also have to admit that I was kind of...annoyed, I guess...that Rapp and Cruz were clearly told not to kiss in the bathroom scene.  You could tell they wanted to, and a real couple likely would have.  I guess physical affection is still a bridge too far for Trek.

[KimberStormer]

Spoiler

I guess it would explain why she had time to rape a Starfleet lieutenant for 7 months when she was stuck on Voq's broken ship eating Captain Georgiou for 6 months, if the whole thing was a lie/setup.

I agree with that, they were clearly about to kiss and then it was just like, well, nope.  Strange moment.

Edited October 16, 2017 by KimberStormer

[starri]

Also, check Michael pointing out that Ripper had an "All-Access Pass" to the mycelium network.

What you did there, I see it.

[Helena Dax]

6 hours ago, Florinaldo said:

 I think it is implied that Tilley has Asperger's (mixed with a little Tourette perhaps), which sort of excuses her profanity, but has that been confirmed in her previous appearances?

 

I don't think she's nothing but a bit nervous and over-excited about stuff. 

3 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Enjoyed seeing both Jonathan Archer and Christopher Pike's names in the list of the "best" captains that Saru was trying to learn from.  Even if I'm not sure I fully agree with the former, since; with respect to Scott Bakula; I always found Archer to be kind of a dick, who was lucky that his crew were much better (and more interesting) then him.

 

I totally agree. As much as I like Bakula, Archer was a terrible capitan. 

Loved the episode. I'm glad Lorca managed to get free. What happened to his crew... Well, he was probably right. I mean, klingons are supposed to be the worst, although no show has been able to make them really scary and imposing. 

Oh, Mudd... Back in TOS, I despised him, but I loved his chemistry with Kirk. Although it was played for laughs. I always had the feeling that he could become really dangerous in difficult situations. I like what they've done to him in Discovery. 

Okay, Stamet, you can stay, now. Loved that he was willing to put himself in Ripper's place. He's got a nice chemistry with his bae. They need to kiss at least once. Gay couples who don't kiss on screen belong to the 90s, not to 2017. 

I miss Michael, she's still my favourite character.

[Lokiberry]

Spoiler

OMG! It didn't even occur to me that Ash might be Voq. I didn't even know that the interrogator was L'Rell. If he is Voq, will Lorca's tribble be what outs him?

[DavidJSnyder]

Spoilers for the fan theory mentioned above that totally makes sense.

Spoiler

Crap.  I thought about Tyler being a spy, but didn't recognize L'Rell or peg him as that specific spy.  But it totally makes sense.   Actor credited for Voq literally has no other credits.  I bet it's a made up name and Shazad Latif has been playing him this entire time.

Well, I'm glad the Klingons are so poor at fighting because they were supposed to let the guys go.  Too bad for the ones that were disintegrated.

 

[Florinaldo]

3 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

I don't think she's nothing but a bit nervous and over-excited about stuff. 

In her first appearance Tilly mentioned her "special needs", with no explanatation, and was particularly fussy about which bed she sleeps in although she herself pointed out that they are identical; add to that her "allergy" to beddings made of artificial materials and general social awkwardness, so I think the implication of some form of autism may indeed be involved, just not spelled out.

 

5 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

Really??  Are you sure??  She seemed completely different to me, voice, look, everything.

Plus, as you point out there is a problem with internal chronology if L'Rell is supposed to have been stuck on the derelict Klingon ship for a long time. The actress playing L'Rell is not listed by IMDB in the credits for this episode, but of course the site is unreliable at times, especially right after broadcast until someone edits the listing.

Edited October 16, 2017 by Florinaldo

[marinw]

I can’t shake the feeling that Dr. Hugh is going to die horribly, since people on Star Trek are seldom allowed to stay in happy relationships.

[Helena Dax]

16 minutes ago, Florinaldo said:

In her first appearance Tilly mentioned her "special needs", with no explanatation, and was particularly fussy about which bed she sleeps in although she herself pointed out that they are identical; add to that her "allergy" to beddings made of artificial materials and general social awkwardness, so I think the implication of some form of autism may indeed be involved, just not spelled out.

I thought her special needs were her allergies and the snoring. I agree that she's a bit socially awkward, but I am too and that doesn't make me autistic. And if I were used to sleep in a specific bed, well, I would be a bit territorial about it, too. Most of us would be, I think. I don't know, I need something more explicit than that. 

[Florinaldo]

16 minutes ago, Helena Dax said:

she's a bit socially awkward, but I am too and that doesn't make me autistic.

The definition of autism covers a wide spectrum these days and is far from limited to the extreme cases of people who are withdrawn from the world and are uncommunicative. Social awkwardness is not a surefire symptom of the condition, but it can be part of the range of symptoms and behaviours, just as skin irritation for example is common to different illnesses. We'll see if they revisit the issue or just have her continue behaving the way she has until now with no further elaboration.

[aemom]

I just can't shake the feeling that Ash is shady.  He just seemed like such a plant at first.  The subsequent scene of him having the fight with the woman Klingon would tend to dispel that feeling, but I'm still bothered by him.  I can't quite put a finger on why.

[mrspidey]

8 hours ago, dwmarch said:

Also we have a main computer that will outright suggest murdering one's problems.

To the computer's defense, Saru didn't specifiy that his problem was a living being. 

[tpel]

When I saw a klingon female, L'Rell came to mind. But the more I saw of her, the less I thought it was her. She looks different (could just be makeup or lighting though) and sounds different (then again, she was speaking English). More compellingly, there is the time issue: Ash has been there 7 months, and his longevity is due to her interest in him, which implies that his rapist has been there for at least much of that time. L'Rell has been occupied elsewhere. Finally, L'Rell strikes me as fairly smart. This klingon woman, not so much. Despite having him at her mercy, Lorca owned her in their conversation.

[tennisgurl]

Hold on now...Archer is one of the most decorated Starfleet officers ever? Did he get extra points for his commitment to dog care? 

We get our first confirmed gay cuple AND our first confirmed F Bomb! Awesome! I like how the relationship between Stamets and the doctor was shown so nonchalantly, and I like their chemistry. It seemed very real, it was cute. It was a good episode for them in general, especially with Stamets experimenting on himself so he wouldn't have to hurt the creature. That was very classic idealistic Trek. 

I also like that we got more about Lorca, both his friendship with the other captain (which he seemed a bit more open than usual) and why he is the way he is. He is definitely the most straight up morally ambiguous captain so far (at least, on purpose), but I like and am interested in him a lot more. He seems to really think that mercy killing his crew was right, but still risked his life to save Ash and get back. I also kind of love that while everyone else on the Discovery were bickering, Lorca just ran off and saved himself. Dude really is hard core. 

I like the new guy, it'll be interesting to see more of him. I was suspicious of him at first, but his rage at the female Klingon seemed really damn real, so who knows now? I also am glad that the show was clearly taking his repeated sexual assaults by the female Klingon seriously, and didn't play it for "yeah bro, sex with a chick!" or anything. I mean, I dont like that it happened, but you know what I mean. Too many shows play those situations for laughs or that its somehow the guys fault. 

Interesting stuff with Michael and Saru, I think they're building a really good dynamic between them. They have issues, but also a real foundation of respect. 

This is the best episode of the series so far, I hope they build on this more. Also, as fun as it was to hear real cursing on Star Trek, I feel a bit bad for the past characters who were barred from swearing. Especially at DS9. You know Kira would have loved to throw round some choice language. Oh, and...Mirror Universe?!?!

Edited October 21, 2017 by tennisgurl

[sarthaz]

This episode refutes all the whining about Trek fans being babies for not liking a dark show.  This was dark AF, but instead of being obnoxious and sucking, it was pretty darn good.  Stamets did something other than be a prick.  Saru, while still acting like a moron, at least acknowledged his motivations for acting like a moron.  And that rape-victim rage was intense!  The circumstances of Lorca's capture strain credibility, and pretty much every episode of this show so far has been all about people in authority refusing to listen to expert subordinates trying to save their lives, but this was totally a step up in quality.

[Ely]

I love how this show is really being different from any other Star Trek. It's not just the cursing or the gay couple - who is so adorable I'm afraid to like them too much because I never trust TPTB with a gay couple - it's also because the characters are so *human*. I've heard Garrett Wang say that during Voyager times TPTB specifically told the actors with human characters to tone it down and be as non-human as possible, which is just bizarre. I'm not happy with everything, they still need a bit more of humor, but! I feel like this show is improving by the episode and I'm really looking forward to see where they next take us.

ETA: So what's the deal with Stemet in the end?

Edited October 16, 2017 by Ely

[piequinn35]

The new guy that Lorca saved was in the main cast, Tyler, love interest for Michael?

[Charlesman]

5 hours ago, DavidJSnyder said:

Spoilers for the fan theory mentioned above that totally makes sense.

  Hide contents

  Actor credited for Voq literally has no other credits.  I bet it's a made up name and Shazad Latif has been playing him this entire time.

 

 

In fact:

Spoiler

The name of the actor credited for Voq has the same real life last name as the actor who plays Ash. His "stage name" is a shortening of his actual name. 

15 hours ago, DavidJSnyder said:

This ship is full of Klingons who are are bad at fighting.

 

Spoiler

Unless they wanted Ash to get away on purpose, and were willing to sacrifice a few klingons to make it happen, see spoilers above

[Charlesman]

17 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

How does the tardigrade get to warp speed? Granted that that creature is virtually invincible but what kind of propulsion does it have

 

From what I can understand, the tardigrade eats this plant that grows in sub-space. The roots actually spread throughout the physical universe. Its "spores" are released into "our" universe, but the actual plant grows in subspace. But because the tardigrade has absorbed so much of the subspace plant's DNA into its own, it is able to slip out out of our physical universe and drop itself into subspace at will. So, if it's in one spot in the universe, say, orbiting Earth, and wants to be somewhere else, like, the Delta Quadrant, it can just drop itself into subspace, then follow the roots of the plant along whichever path lets out in the Delta Quadrant. And, in our physical reality, this would actually take zero time to do from the perspective of the clocks in our universe.

[piequinn35]

12 minutes ago, Charlesman said:

In fact:

  Reveal hidden contents

The name of the actor credited for Voq has the same real life last name as the actor who plays Ash. His "stage name" is a shortening of his actual name. 

  Hide contents

Unless they wanted Ash to get away on purpose, and were willing to sacrifice a few klingons to make it happen, see spoilers above

Spoiler

 

Wow, I googled it, yes you're right

Shazad Khaliq Iqbal - real name of Shazad Latif - playing Ash Tyler

Javid Iqbal - playing Voq

 

[Florinaldo]

Spoiler

Perhaps the theory that Ash Tyler is in fact Voq was fed by the fact that the actor was initially cast as another Kingon.

The uncertainty as to whether L'Rell was the female captain of the prison ship is another consequence of the new Klingon make-up; it's not only unconvincing and inexpressive, it's also so generic that they all look the same. In the previous incarnations of the franchise, at least you could identify individual Klingons, even when the make-up was at its heaviest in the later series.

Also, the captain's costume made it look like she was on her way to perform in a kindergarten leather ballet production.

[FormerMod-a1]

2 hours ago, tpel said:

More compellingly, there is the time issue: Ash has been there 7 months, and his longevity is due to her interest in him, which implies that his rapist has been there for at least much of that time.

I don't know about 7 months, but there were indications of time passage - during the meeting with Lorca and the Admiral, she mentioned several wins the Discovery had using the mushroom drive, and how the mechanical pieces were being produced.  

[marinw]

1 hour ago, piequinn35 said:

The new guy that Lorca saved was in the main cast, Tyler, love interest for Michael?

Interesting theory. So far the only shippable couple on this show are Stamets and Hugh.

I actually find the lack of romance on this show interesting and refreshing. I can’t decide if Michael is asexual or just emulating a Vulcan. So far she has expressed no interest at all in anybody romantically.

[marinw]

Spoiler

Maybe Ash is a Klingon Agent who is one of those Klingons with Human DNA (It’s complicated)