S03.E06: A. Malcolm

[Athena]

Quote

After decades apart, Jamie and Claire finally reunite and rekindle their emotional and physical bonds. But Jamie's new business dealings jeopardize the couple's hopes for a simple life together.

Reminder: The is the book talk thread. This can include spoilers for ALL the books. If you wish to remain unspoiled for any of the books, please leave now and head to the No Book Talk episode thread.

[Quickbeam]

Did the episode cut in and out a lot? Or was it just me/ my area?

Enjoyed it, kind of languid pacing. Felt like a solid reflection of the book. 

Edited October 22, 2017 by Quickbeam
Typo

[areca]

I had no trouble.  It was a very slow episode.  I didn't mind.  I didn't love it, but felt like it should be awkward.  You know?

[GHScorpiosRule]

They kept Geordie’s “I QUIT!” and “It’s not even noon!” Lines!!??????

Oh that was EVERYTHING and MORE!!!

If I have a quibble it’s that they didn’t have Jamie hold Claire while he cried after seeing those pictures of Bree. I can’t recall when Claire finds out about Willie in the buik, but I don’t think it was from Jamie? But I liked how they changed that from the buik. I wish they had kept to the appearances of Ian, then Fergus and then Wee Ian (whose hair should be DARKER!?). But it was still a nice scene. 

I liked how they handled Willoughby, but did NOT like how they ended the episode. Really? Another attempted rape???

But the best part was the ❤️?❤️?❤️REUNION!!!❤️?❤️?❤️ I loved the hesitancy from both.

But I was totally??that “scar” that should have been fuglier and more grotesque AND higher up near his groin!

Must rewatch!

Oh! And I loooove grown up Fergus!!???

[toolazy]

I'm not wild about the very end but I'm happy enough with everything that went before it.  

[unlfan03]

It was very languid, my first impression was I liked most of it. Slow and awkward as like meeting an old flame at a school reunion is. I had the captioning on so I know one of the men was Hayes but I am wondering who the other smuggler was. I do like Willoughby so far, it gives me hope he will not be so much of a caricature as in the book, if nothing else because his English is not as broken and Claire seemed to like him. If they stay with this portrayal it would be great. Young Ian was great, the glass face so you can tell he knows something that would put a damper on things.  And grown up Fergus was good too, all around everything but Madame Janine was good. I will say that I didn't like Madame Janine, I think she knew that the man was up in Jamie's room and sent Claire up on purpose.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I was hoping for a 90 minute episode. But it was roughly 75 minutes.

On a PURELY SHALLOW note: I am hating Jamie’s hair! The style. But the rest of him makes up for it!???

3 minutes ago, unlfan03 said:

And grown up Fergus was good too, all around everything but Madame Janine was good. I will say that I didn't like Madame Janine, I think she knew that the man was up in Jamie's room and sent Claire up on purpose.

Agree about Madame. In the buik, she was more confused about Claire and not upset or suspicious. I didn’t care for her attitude at all.

[Rilla-my-Rilla]

4 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I can’t recall when Claire finds out about Willie in the buik, but I don’t think it was from Jamie? But I liked how they changed that from the buik. I

Lord John tells her at the party in Jamaica. Then, when they get back to where they're staying, Jamie tells Claire before she says anything and before he knows she knows. I did like him telling her basically right away in the show.

[theschnauzers]

My first impression is that this is a fantastic episode. This is the first episode where Sam is playing a Jamie who is older than himself.

I also especially like the pre-credits bridge that shows the print shop scene from Jamie’s POV as the bookend to Claire’s POV at the end of the last episode.

Spoiler

I’ll hold off about the end of this episode, as the show has only two episodes before locales shift dramatically and clearly that period in the book is being condensed.

And yes, the equal “confessions” approach works better for me, too.

[Dust Bunny]

That'll do, Matthew B. Roberts. That'll do.

Cold opens are best kind of opens.

I was sort of stunned that Jamie told Claire about Willie right away. Yet, I'm glad the writers did that, since it's such a huge thing for Jamie to hide from Claire for so long in the book.

I think there was more sex in this one episode than in all of season 2. It's the chemistry and longing that is so beautiful.

The later photos of Brianna were exactly as described in the book. It felt a little literal to me, but I'm sure some readers will appreciate it. I loved hearing Jamie's "Bree-ana".

I love the pace of this season. It's not rushed. Season 1's pace was really uneven, largely due to the need for the window scene break. Here, we're getting a lot of quiet character moments.

It was nice to have an episode with minimal plot, allowing Jamie and Claire to simply appreciate each other's company.

Well done, show, for hitting all the right notes on an iconic episode.

Edited October 22, 2017 by Dust Bunny

[GHScorpiosRule]

Okay, another quibble. Only because it was so Game of Thrones-ish: Fergus is supposed to have a hook where his left hand was, not that cheap ass dirty goldish fake hand.??

That hook comes in handy when fighting, ye ken?

[Ziggy]

Jamie telling Claire about Willy completely threw me for a loop.  Huge change from the book!

I liked the episode overall, but I was kind of hoping for the plot to move forward a bit more.  I was not at all expecting that ending!

[GHScorpiosRule]

Did I forget tae mention how SEXAY Jamie looked when wearing his spectacles??

SWOON!!!!

[areca]

Jamie's hair looks awful, and they didn't age him anywhere near well, or enough.

Quote

cheap ass dirty goldish fake hand

I think it was wood.

[Rilla-my-Rilla]

So, was Young Ian lying about his age or are we supposed to pretend he wasn't born 14 years ago?

[theschnauzers]

4 minutes ago, areca said:

Jamie's hair looks awful, and they didn't age him anywhere near well, or enough.

 

Jamie’s has his hair so as to blend in in Edinburgh being a printer and businessman.

As to Fergus’ hand why couldn’t he also have a hook when he needed it. The wooden hand better fits in with the cover Jamie has adopted.

Also, now that I think about, the men threatening Claire at the end clearly we sent by the “businessman” or tax collector earlier in the episode. And I have little doubt Jamie’s errand involved Ned Gowan (that was referenced earlier in this episode).

[theschnauzers]

8 minutes ago, Rilla-my-Rilla said:

So, was Young Ian lying about his age or are we supposed to pretend he wasn't born 14 years ago?

Young Ian’s birth was referenced during Jamie’s Dunbonnet period, and as his arrest was at least 12 years before that, and Jamie was in that cave 7 years, young Ian could be 14, 15 or 16; so if he says he is 16, then it does not contradict the show’s timeline. It wouldn’t surprise me if the writers wanted Young Ian to be a couple of years older than in the book. 

Spoiler

IIRC, this aging of the character will avoid the sexual implications of his capture and being taken to Jamaica.

[Rilla-my-Rilla]

2 minutes ago, theschnauzers said:

Young Ian’s birth was referenced during Jamie’s Dunbonnet period, and as his arrest was at least 12 years before that, and Jamie was in that cave 7 years, young Ian could be 14, 15 or 16; so if he says he is 16, then it does not contradict the show’s timeline. It wouldn’t surprise me if the writers wanted Young Ian to be a couple of years older than in the book. 

  Hide contents

IIRC, this aging of the character will avoid the sexual implications of his capture and being taken to Jamaica.

The start of that episode says it's 1752 and Jenny is heavily pregnant. And we're supposed to be in 1766 now. Even if we just go by Roger's research.

[Cloudberryjam]

Snooooooooooore....Okay im up!! Im up!! Please tell me i dreamt that Jamie DID NOT SEEM AT ALL SURPRISED TO SEE CLAIRE (besides the faint). Fergus at least showed some emotion and shock! Could they not at least embrace??? It was like a business associate came back after 20 years.  I expected 20 years of longing streaming down their faces, people! This is not the acting—Sam and Cat rule and at this point are the only reason  Im still watching this mess—i feel like its the writing and the direction. The sets are beautiful. The casting and costumes are grand. 

Jamie—grab a towel or something dude, ya dinna need to take yer pants off for a bit of ale. (I know its in the book). Maybe ask Claire how the hell she got there?  

Super anticlimactic (har) buuuuut for non book readers probably it will work. Ian cute. Seems like they will handle Willougby well.  And finally: God bless Sam Heughan—his 40ish Jamie is hotter than ever.

[mjforty]

Wow, cloudberry, you and I had completely different experiences watching this episode.  I loved it, thought it was near perfect.  And I also felt like Sam Heughan and Caitriona Balfe were amazing.  Their faces showed everything.  The longing, the desire, the hope, the awkwardness, the embarrassment and eventually the joy of reuniting.  I loved how the producers took their time with it, not rushing anything.  Sam Heghan’s acting when he was looking at Bree’s pictures brought me to tears.  I cannot believe the job he is doing this season.  He better at least be nominated for an Emmy.  

Other than the way it ended, I could not have been happier with this episode.

[Petunia846]

Nope.

[katville]

I am very much in the Yep camp and cannot wait to watch it again. Wonderfully done. Am especially impressed at how S & C are playing the characters older. They are still Claire and Jamie, but they are not the same. Bravo for some subtle and marvelous acting. 

[maryle]

I loved overall the episode sam and cait really did a good job! We could feels the hesitation, the love, and the passion still there between jamie and claire!

I am mostly fine with the change from the book concerning william but I will love a bit more focus on the emotions jamie felt about learning about Bree at first it was really good! But, they should have stay with this emotion a little longer than immediatly jamie almost casually bring william cause it diminish a bit one of the scene I loved the most in voyageur! They probably thought the wedding with leoghaire was enough conflit! They just should have gave the Bree moment its time! But, I am also one who does love Bree and Rodger!

I loved the adult Fergus and the others characters happy we will see more of them the one exception was the Madame I just thought they were going for red herring for the non book viewers and after they kinda play her like she had a bit of jealousy toward claire. I just didnt care for that  the ending too was not what I wanted but they sure up the drama but the ensemble was very lovely!

[Ziggy]

It looks like I'm going to be in the minority on this one, but I was really disappointed by this episode.  I thought the actors did a great job.  That wasn't my issue.  It was the writing. I remember so many of those scenes from the book, and the humor was gone!  I know they don't have time for everything, but I loved the morning after the reunion and Claire meeting Ian (and hiding under the covers) and then Fergus and then Young Ian (who thought she was a prostitute and had been sleeping with his dad).  The reunion was good, I guess.  At times it felt a bit wooden.  But I really missed the humor from the book.  Also, I really thought the plot would move along a little further.

[FnkyChkn34]

I've watched this episode twice already, and I am torn.  I definitely see both sides of the argument. 

I acting was good, but it was slow; more could have happened. Fergus and Willoughby were great; I like that Willoughby is not such a caricature, but yes, Fergus needs a hook not Jaime Lannister's hand. I agree that they should have had more emotion when first seeing each other - but! that's the way DG wrote it, so... let's blame her. 

I love that Jamie was honest right away about Willie. But the hints about Leghair were annoying and I bet they'll just confuse non book readers. 

I give the episode a 6.5 out of 10. I give Sam a 10 out of 10 for obvious reasons. ;)

6 minutes ago, Ziggy said:

It looks like I'm going to be in the minority on this one, but I was really disappointed by this episode.  I thought the actors did a great job.  That wasn't my issue.  It was the writing. I remember so many of those scenes from the book, and the humor was gone!  I know they don't have time for everything, but I loved the morning after the reunion and Claire meeting Ian (and hiding under the covers) and then Fergus and then Young Ian (who thought she was a prostitute and had been sleeping with his dad).  The reunion was good, I guess.  At times it felt a bit wooden.  But I really missed the humor from the book.  Also, I really thought the plot would move along a little further.

 We were posting at the same time... I agree. 

[BryroseA]

This episode reminded me a bit of the first half of S1, where I found on-screen Jaime a bit inscrutable and hard to connect with. Even thought this ep was from his POV I didn’t really *feel* the reunion from him as much as I did from Claire (Cait did an amazing job with the hope/fear/trepidation/uncertainty combo she rocked for most of the ep.) 

 

Also, whoa did some of Jaime’s direct-from-the-book lines to Claire about her body, her breast, her hair come off WAY cheesier out loud than on the page. I cringed a bit a few times. 

 

OTOH, I’m glad my favorite random line from the brothel girl (stick a finger up his bum/I’ll save you a bannock) made the cut. I laughed just as much here as in the book. 

[Petunia846]

27 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

I agree that they should have had more emotion when first seeing each other - but! that's the way DG wrote it, so... let's blame her.

No, actually it's not how she wrote it. They skipped all the crying...the desperate, shaking tears, clutching at each other, tangled together on the floor when he wakes up after fainting, and more shaking and being unable to really speak and then more tears upon seeing the pictures of Bree. They even skipped the gasp when the pictures went from being in black and white to being in color and him seeing her red hair for the first time.

Edited October 22, 2017 by Petunia846

[AheadofStraight]

I actually stayed up to watch it last night and then was so disappointed by the lack of Jamie's breakdown over the Bree pics (one of my favorite parts of the entire book) and jumping into Willie that I actually turned it off and went to bed. I knew it would ruin the rest of the episode for me if I didn't let myself get over it. ? Glad I did that because I actually really enjoyed the actual reunion stuff. Jamie's wig kept reminding me of Lou Ferrigno in the old Incredible Hulk TV show when I was a kid lol. I look forward to watching it again.

And yes to Jamie with spectacles being hot!!

[ihartcoffee]

26 minutes ago, Petunia846 said:

No, actually it's not how she wrote it. They skipped all the crying...the desperate, shaking tears, clutching at each other, tangled together on the floor when he wakes up after fainting, and more shaking and being unable to really speak and then more tears upon seeing the pictures of Bree. They even skipped the gasp when the pictures went from being in black and white to being in color and him seeing her red hair for the first time.

I would have liked that level of emotion too.  They have longed to see each other for 20 yrs after all.  Other than that I enjoyed it.  Will watch again later.  

[FnkyChkn34]

27 minutes ago, Petunia846 said:

No, actually it's not how she wrote it. They skipped all the crying...the desperate, shaking tears, clutching at each other, tangled together on the floor when he wakes up after fainting, and more shaking and being unable to really speak and then more tears upon seeing the pictures of Bree. They even skipped the gasp when the pictures went from being in black and white to being in color and him seeing her red hair for the first time.

Thanks, I didn't remember that. I thought they were both pretty stoic.  I remember reading it and thinking he should have just grabbed her and kissed her; I've always thought DG making him ask was a bit ridiculous.  She's the love of his life and obviously risked everything to come back to him! Of course she wants to be there and be with him! I've always been a bit upset that DG didn't give them that unspoken connection where they both just knew that. 

[Petunia846]

They have their intense, shocked emotional grabbing at each other moment, and then after that they get shy and nervous. My take on it is that they both *know* it, but that they've built each other up as the long lost love for so long, that they just need that confirmation to be totally sure.

Plus, of course, Jamie needs to be completely sure of what Claire's expectations are so he knows whether he really needs to delve into dealing with that certain someone that he's just been ignoring up until Claire shows up. No point in getting deep into that mess if Claire is just popping in from a happy life with Frank to give him some pictures and an update.

[GHScorpiosRule]

46 minutes ago, AheadofStraight said:

Jamie's wig kept reminding me of Lou Ferrigno in the old Incredible Hulk TV show when I was a kid lol. 

Sadly, I’m pretty sure that's Sam’s own hair.

[Starla]

Okay, maybe I am a hopeless romantic but I freakin loved this episode. I cried through nearly the entire thing. I totally bought Jamie’s WTF look of astonishment at first hearing/seeing Claire, his expression of awe and reverence while looking through Brianna’s pictures, and his total devotion to Claire during their scenes in the brothel. Claire maintained her go-to "I am too overwhelmed to fathom this situation" teary, wide-eyed expression through all of it, which completely fits her personality. I don’t recall crying during these scenes during the book, so I attribute my reaction to the actors and their facial expressions, body language, and words. I buy pretty much anything Jamie says to Claire in that soft Scottish brogue, no matter what words he uses. I didn’t fully understand half of what he said, but I believe he meant every word of it.

I am so glad Jamie told Claire about William up front. I was angry with him in the books for neglecting to tell her about his WIFE and his SON. These are important tidbits that she should know right away. I can understand that he would tell Claire about William because he loves and cares about his son, and their daughter has a brother. He probably doesn’t find it as important to tell her about Laoghaire because he doesn’t really think of her as his wife, in the truest sense of the word. It’s just a legal thing to him, and Ned Gowan can take care it.

Grown up Fergus is gorgeous, and I didn’t mind his wooden hand. I didn’t recall that he had a hook in the book so the hand worked for me. Ian is adorable with his talk of Auntie Claire the Fairy. I was also relieved by Mr. Willoughby's portrayal so far. I thought Claire treated him with respect and dignity and I hope this trend continues throughout their interactions.

One of my favorite parts of the episode was the set of the print shop, including that catwalk on the second floor, and Jamie operating the printing press. It’s a fun tidbit that this set was also Master Raymond’s apothecary, one of my other favorite locations in the series. One of my favorite things in the episode was Jamie with his adorable spectacles, and his embarrassment at having to wear them. I totally get it, I am the same way when I have to put on glasses to read. 

Not sure about the ending yet, but we’ll have to wait and see what happens next week. Perhaps I am forgetting something, but I don’t recall who the man is in their room. All in all I am happy with the episode, and I am surprised others did not see all it as romantic and believable. I guess we each have different things that move us, which makes life interesting. ?

Edited October 22, 2017 by Starla
typos

[nodorothyparker]

What the hell was that?  For a reunion that's been hyped and hyped and then hyped some more, coming away from it feeling like "well, it was perfunctory enough in that they managed to do most of a greatest hits of the book scenes" doesn't quite cut it.  If I hadn't known better, I would have thought they hadn't seen each other since all of last summer.  Oh hey, Claire. It's you.  Haven't seen you in awhile.  But oh, they threw in some softcore from actors who aren't even going through the motions of pretending to be pushing 50, so it will be fine.

This episode is a terrific example in how in tweaking one thing to fix something from the page that doesn't quite work, you end up with a butterfly effect of following scenes that then become nonsensical.  I'm as happy as anybody that the showrunners wisely opted to make Willoughby less of a caricature, but now we have Jamie deliberately taking Claire to a brothel for no other reason than he apparently lives there, knowing full well the respectability of it and the questions that's going to open up.  While it's silly that Claire's dress is immediately ripped in the tavern scuffle that didn't happen here, now there's no reason for her to be gallivanting around a whorehouse in her shift being mistaken for being one of the working girls.   I know she's been gone awhile, but are we really supposed to think she's forgotten all sense of decorum and how people are in this time period?  That's before you even get to the prerequisite "you've been back in the past for 5 minutes already so let's throw in your first threat of sexual violence to remind you why this was a bad idea in the first place" ending.

The absolute worst though, as others have already said, has to be the complete underreaction to the pictures of Bree and immediately making the scene about Willie instead.  Up until this moment, Bree at best was a hypothetical to Jamie.  He didn't know whether she had lived to be born or even if she was a son or a daughter.  Seeing her grow up in still life should have elicited ... something beyond a that's nice, oh, hey, did I mention I had another kid I have at least met while you were gone?  While we can discuss for days what Jamie should or shouldn't have told Claire in those first heady days of her return, I never found it implausible that Willie would be an entirely separate subject that he wouldn't be quick to bring up.  He's so incredibly compartmentalized about what aside from losing Claire has to be the most painful thing in his life that he hasn't even told the sister he has clear boundary issues with.  He doesn't fully know Claire anymore and despite what he may say, can't fully trust that she won't disappear on him again.  We know this is his justification for not immediately coming clean about the Laoghaire marriage, which was at least nicely alluded to in his talk with Fergus about needing to speak to Ned Gowan.  So to just throw out Here's Willie! here clearly undermines what has happened to his character in Claire's absence or his motivations.

The episode did do a really nice job of conveying just how messy and almost seedy Jamie's life in Edinburgh in, compared to the laird of the manor/possible heir to the castle he was when Claire originally knew him.  The chemistry between the two actors, is of course, always lovely.

[Eureka]

I don’t like how he brought up Willie when he did. I understand they need to condense but come on! She’s supposed to have a bunch of little shocks along the way. I also think the looking at the photos scene was not as emotional as I was hoping. Oh well. They kept a lot of the same lines from the book though. I’m sure I’ll have more comments later after thinking more about it. 

[WatchrTina]

Not reading any comments.  I just stopped by to say I just saw it at and . . . 

OH. MY. GOD.

It was so good.  Soooooo very good.  And then, at the end. GOTCHA!

These wicked, wicked show-runners.  How I love them.

[toolazy]

I thought it was fine.  I didn't mind Jamie bringing up Willie when he did because frankly, that is what a normal person would have done.  A normal person would have also mentioned that he had a wife back at home, but at least they showed him almost telling her a couple of times.  

The script hit so many of the little moments that I love that I can't fault it for not hitting all of them.  For whatever reason, I wasn't nearly the ball of teary tears that I expected to be but that's okay, too.  

I'm a bit confused by Ian's age myself - I can see wanting to age him up, especially if he gets to go with the second Mary but still.  

I think they did a great job of aging up Sam, especially with the spectacles.  He does not look like the boy that he was when Claire married him.  As for his hair, I think it's his hair with extensions.  

[nodorothyparker]

I will at least give show Claire credit for having a passable explanation that has an element of truth to it for WTH she's been all these years.  It makes me want me throttle her on every reread that for all of her tying up loose ends and planning, book Claire never bothers even attempting to figure out what to tell people.  Oh, Jamie will figure it out.  You know, while he's dealing with the dozen other complications that her sudden appearance causes and his own loose ends.

[AD55]

I was underwhelmed and even kind of bored by the episode. That's been my reaction to most of the series thus far, with the exception of the Helwater episode. I've watched that 3 times and will probably watch it again. I barely remember the other episodes, though I recall there were some nice moments. I think the problem is probably with me. I'm just not feeling the Jamie and Claire, one-love-for-all-time-relationship. I thought there was more chemistry between Jamie and John or even, dare I say it, between Jamie and Geneva. I found Jamie's fury at Geneva more convincing than his love for Claire. Perhaps it's because Sam and Catriona are such good friends in real life. I think that sometimes kills onscreen chemistry. This is all just my opinion. I loved the first season and watched all of the episodes, with the exception of the last two, several times. I didn't like season 2 as much, and I'm kind of limping along with season 3 because it takes a lot for me to bail on a show in which I have been invested. (I'm ashamed to say I watched 3 years of The Following, not that I'm putting Outlander in the same universe with that POS.) I didn't like the second half of Voyager, so I'm not looking forward to the rest of the season, except for the reappearance of Lord John.

Count me among those who was really disgusted that Claire is threatened with rape as soon as she arrives in the C18th, because as we well know, things were very rapey then, unlike today (*sarcasm*).

I wish the show/book did as good a job portraying female as it does male friendship. There are a disproportionate number of horrible and/or silly women in Claire's orbit (Jamie's too, for that matter). Plus Catriona is wonderful in scenes with other women--even short ones like the dyeing scene in the first season.

I did like the actors playing Fergus and Ian, and I was relieved that Willoughby was treated better than in the book.

Edited October 22, 2017 by AD55

[mrsjoe]

My guess is the Willie confession probably had more to do with the fact that they have so far been able to find any actors who even remotely look like Sam, let alone look so much like him that everyone who knows him would guess they are related. Lord John springing Willie on Claire really only works if the audience buys she could tell Jamie was the father the second she saw his portrait, which we all know would be complete BS. Seeing the portrait tonight my first thought was "wow, that kid still looks nothing like Jamie."

 

Just another workaround for the books. Sort of like how they confessed the glasses were a cheat to age Jamie, so we lost Claire joking he needed glasses and him saying his eyes were still great. The aging could be better, but lets face it, Jamie and Claire are both pretty unbelievably non-aged in the books, especially Jamie after what he's been through. Maybe having such a young actor playing an older Jamie will somehow make all the upcoming adventures more believable on screen.

 

I too am anxious to see where they go with Mr. Willoughby. It's always been a dark area of the books for me. I can't imagine them going there. Today seemed like a decent compromise. We get the casual reference to Jamie basically changing his identity without much thought, and we get to see Claire's treating him more respectfully than likely anyone else he has encountered in Scotland.

[Petunia846]

3 minutes ago, AD55 said:

Count me among those who was really disgusted that Claire is threatened with rape as soon as she arrives in the C18th, because as we well know, things were very rapey then, unlike today (*sarcasm*).

This so much. It's not even a case when they can fall back on "well, it was in the book..." because it's not. It's like, did you learn nothing from the commentary and critique on previous seasons?

I was already not feeling it, but that ending is what led to my rather inarticulate (though quite succinct) first post in this thread.

My favorite part of this episode is Jamie's glasses, but I'm sad that he's embarrassed by them.

[Clawdette]

Can I just watch Helwater again?  I know it's almost impossible for the show to live up to my book imagery and am not one of those folks who automatically rejects revisions and  compressions of timelines. I get the necessity of those. 

But holy cow, in an episode with more time they decided to breeze through the photograph scene?!  I had an almost  "Well isn't that nice," feel from Jamie's reaction.   Such a missed opportunity. 

A change I totally embrace is seeing the beginning of the day from Jamie's perspective. Just a man living his life with no clue of what's about to happen. 

Edited October 25, 2017 by Clawdette

[Kata01]

1 hour ago, nodorothyparker said:

What the hell was that?  For a reunion that's been hyped and hyped and then hyped some more, coming away from it feeling like "well, it was perfunctory enough in that they managed to do most of a greatest hits of the book scenes" doesn't quite cut it.  If I hadn't known better, I would have thought they hadn't seen each other since all of last summer.  Oh hey, Claire. It's you.  Haven't seen you in awhile.  But oh, they threw in some softcore from actors who aren't even going through the motions of pretending to be pushing 50, so it will be fine.

This episode is a terrific example in how in tweaking one thing to fix something from the page that doesn't quite work, you end up with a butterfly effect of following scenes that then become nonsensical.  I'm as happy as anybody that the showrunners wisely opted to make Willoughby less of a caricature, but now we have Jamie deliberately taking Claire to a brothel for no other reason than he apparently lives there, knowing full well the respectability of it and the questions that's going to open up.  While it's silly that Claire's dress is immediately ripped in the tavern scuffle that didn't happen here, now there's no reason for her to be gallivanting around a whorehouse in her shift being mistaken for being one of the working girls.   I know she's been gone awhile, but are we really supposed to think she's forgotten all sense of decorum and how people are in this time period?  That's before you even get to the prerequisite "you've been back in the past for 5 minutes already so let's throw in your first threat of sexual violence to remind you why this was a bad idea in the first place" ending.

The absolute worst though, as others have already said, has to be the complete underreaction to the pictures of Bree and immediately making the scene about Willie instead.  Up until this moment, Bree at best was a hypothetical to Jamie.  He didn't know whether she had lived to be born or even if she was a son or a daughter.  Seeing her grow up in still life should have elicited ... something beyond a that's nice, oh, hey, did I mention I had another kid I have at least met while you were gone?  While we can discuss for days what Jamie should or shouldn't have told Claire in those first heady days of her return, I never found it implausible that Willie would be an entirely separate subject that he wouldn't be quick to bring up.  He's so incredibly compartmentalized about what aside from losing Claire has to be the most painful thing in his life that he hasn't even told the sister he has clear boundary issues with.  He doesn't fully know Claire anymore and despite what he may say, can't fully trust that she won't disappear on him again.  We know this is his justification for not immediately coming clean about the Laoghaire marriage, which was at least nicely alluded to in his talk with Fergus about needing to speak to Ned Gowan.  So to just throw out Here's Willie! here clearly undermines what has happened to his character in Claire's absence or his motivations.

The episode did do a really nice job of conveying just how messy and almost seedy Jamie's life in Edinburgh in, compared to the laird of the manor/possible heir to the castle he was when Claire originally knew him.  The chemistry between the two actors, is of course, always lovely.

Agree.

I think the change in itself of Jamie himself telling Claire about Willie was good. That being said, I’m shocked and appalled at Jamie’s lack of emotion toward Bree and her photos to the point where it marred the rest of the episode for me. This is where the exclusion from the show of the prayer Jamie says throughout the 20 year separation, “Lord, that she may be safe. She and the child” comes home to roost. The lack of emotional connection or resonance from him to the point where Claire may as well have been showing him photos of a child created with Frank.

Jamie (looking at the photos): Nice (yawns). NOW, let me tell you about MY son!!! The most awesomest being to have ever walked the planet!!! 

I felt incredibly heartbroken and insulted on Bree’s behalf.

I’m also questioning how on earth that scene made it through the process of production to the final edit? Did no one find it incredibly off and off-putting? 

There is a troubling and puzzling lack of consistency as far as details with this production team. Careful minute attention to some, while letting some major ones (like the scene with the photos) drop like lead balloons.

Edited October 22, 2017 by Kata01

[Eureka]

2 hours ago, Petunia846 said:

No, actually it's not how she wrote it. They skipped all the crying...the desperate, shaking tears, clutching at each other, tangled together on the floor when he wakes up after fainting, and more shaking and being unable to really speak and then more tears upon seeing the pictures of Bree. They even skipped the gasp when the pictures went from being in black and white to being in color and him seeing her red hair for the first time.

And the bikini picture was not in this scene in the book. I think it was later or in another book.

[nodorothyparker]

The bikini photo is mentioned in the "Do you think our daughter is still a virgin and should you really have gone off and left her alone" discussion they have aboard ship later in this book.

[BryroseA]

34 minutes ago, Clawdette said:

A change I totally embrace is seeing the beginning of the day from Jamie's perspective. Just a man living his life with no clue of what's about to happen. 

Yes, I totally loved that. The cold open was absolutely perfect and by far my favorite part of the episode. All of the little bits of resonance - like him touching the sign causually, with familiarity, in the same place Claire would later touch with such hesitant reverence. 

[Atlanta]

I really wish he had broken down when he saw Brianna's pictures and was floored by the color ones. That was one of my favorite scenes from the book, but I'm glad they didn't draw out the Willie thing. Bummed they made it all about him though. Bree is this child that he's probably imagined for over 20 years. As someone else said, I bet he didn't know if she survived birth, childhood, is she happy, etc. In his day, birth and childhood could be very dangerous. He doesn't seem to ask what she's up to in her own time. In his era, she would have been married by 20 if not have some kids (I'm imagining his POV).

Glad they dialed down the Mr Willoughby/Yi Chien Cho (I think that was his real name in the book) character. 

Madame Jeanne seemed a bit sinister where she wasn't in the book. Book MJ seemed baffled and not jealous, but it's been awhile since I read.

Edited October 22, 2017 by Atlanta

[Nidratime]

I was a little taken aback that Jamie told Claire about Willie so forthrightly. He said he's told no one else ... I think. So, I'm assuming Jenny and Ian don't know. I just thought, since he's so used to hiding it, that he wouldn't tell Claire so soon.

Did the man at the end say the word f**k? Back when Claire used it over 20 years ago, Jamie had no idea what the word meant. Am I to assume the word has now made an appearance in the historical record?

[BryroseA]

1 hour ago, Nidratime said:

Did the man at the end say the word f**k? Back when Claire used it over 20 years ago, Jamie had no idea what the word meant. Am I to assume the word has now made an appearance in the historical record?

The word “fuck” meaning “have sex with” has been around in English since at least the 15th century or so, IIRC. That earlier scene and Jaime’s not knowing the word is a Gabaldon error (or, perhaps, attributable to Jaime speaking English as a second language, if you want to give DG the benefit of the doubt.)

Edited October 22, 2017 by BryroseA

[Nidratime]

Quote

The word “fuck” meaning “have sex with” has been around in English since at least the 15th century or so, IIRC. That earlier scene and Jaime’s is a Gabaldon error (or, perhaps, attributable to Jaime speaking English as a second language, if you want to give DG the benefit of the doubt.)

You think he would've heard it with all those randy, raunchy Scots he was hanging around with before he met Claire.