S25.E05: Week 4: Most Memorable Year

[rr2911]

For me, the thing about Vanessa and Nick is really being over done by DWTS. Yes we know they are a married couple. Yes, we know they love each other. Yes, we know Vanessa had a premie . Yes, yes, and yes to all the above! Vanessa seems more interested in showing the world that her and Nick are a happy family than performing a successful dance routine with Maks. That has to piss Maks off somewhat if that's true. Maks seems like the type that demands his partner pays attention and maybe Vanessa is not giving him that. Just my opinion.

[Callaphera]

1 hour ago, spanana said:

Nick and Vanessa have for the most part been together since 2006.  Their wikipedia page (lol, I only use hard facts) says they had a brief break-up somewhere around 2009 before finally getting married in 2011.  I know why people think of Nick/Jessica, but at this point he's been with Vanessa for the better part of over a decade.  It's not like they just met and got involved.  He's been with Vanessa longer than he was with Jessica.  Believe me, I watched that stupid reality show back in the day but it's not exactly a current part of pop culture.  

Shut your mouth! You mean not everyone re-enacts the Chicken of the Sea scene whenever they pop open a can of tuna? I also do a mean Ashlee Simpson on SNL hoedown. Usually after the "Is it chicken or is it tuna? I don't get it!" bit. 

5 hours ago, birkenstock said:

I'm really glad Property Brother Jonathan refused to go the show.  The battle of the twins on top of competing married couples would have been show crushing.

Could have been worse. Nikki Bella also has an identical* twin sister (Brie) who was also a WWE wrestler until she retired sometime in the past two years. So we could have had battle of the female twins, battle of the male twins, and battle of the married couple. 

*At least, I think they were identical at one point. But you know, muscles and boob jobs and other plastic surgery probably makes a difference.

[kitcloudkicker]

25 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

Could have been worse. Nikki Bella also has an identical* twin sister (Brie) who was also a WWE wrestler until she retired sometime in the past two years. So we could have had battle of the female twins, battle of the male twins, and battle of the married couple. 

 

Victoria is also a triplet. Her brothers aren’t famous so would never be cast, but it’s a weirdly multiple heavy season. Victoria, Drew, Nikki, and Emma, if you count the pros.

[spanana]

1 hour ago, rr2911 said:

For me, the thing about Vanessa and Nick is really being over done by DWTS. Yes we know they are a married couple. Yes, we know they love each other. Yes, we know Vanessa had a premie . Yes, yes, and yes to all the above! Vanessa seems more interested in showing the world that her and Nick are a happy family than performing a successful dance routine with Maks. That has to piss Maks off somewhat if that's true. Maks seems like the type that demands his partner pays attention and maybe Vanessa is not giving him that. Just my opinion.

I don't see this at all.  I see the point about the married stuff being overdone.  I can even see the point about Vanessa wanting to show off her happy family.  But we've seen nothing to suggest she's not putting her all into her dance routines.  She's not a ringer with tons of experience, so she's not tearing down the place every week.  However there hasn't been even the tiniest blip of footage to suggest she's not paying attention or putting her time/attention into routines.  She's not doing what Alexa did, where she seemed to have a weird block about not being able to perform fully or not wanting to show up her husband or something or other.

Now what I have noticed is Vanessa (and I presume Maks) as well have stopped posting any sort of snippets on social media from their rehearsals.  Vanessa the first few weeks was always posting short clips here and there in the studio.  She's stopped doing that and now only posts things about her home life, so my guess is they have mostly stopped pretending that they like each other in rehearsals.

Also please forgive me ahead of time as reading all this Weinstein drama the last few days, amongst tales of all sorts of other inappropriate men in the workplace, I refuse to come down on Vanessa as some awful demanding bitter pill who poor ole Maks is being forced to put up with boo hoo hoo nonsense.  I'm not remotely calling Maks a Weinstein.  I think he's a cocky selfish piece of something a lot of the time, but I am not remotely calling him a sexual predator.  However I am very sensitive to how women are not only treated in the work place, but drawn to look like crazy hags without so much as even a trace of evidence.  Until I see even the tiniest sliver of proof that Vanessa is any of the many things she is painted as being, I am in her corner.  Which is not me saying others shouldn't dislike her if they dislike her, but any evidence to her being difficult or a nightmare or anything else right now is circumstantial at best and I'm just not biting.  Women are held to a much higher standard in terms of behavior and I'm personally sick of it.

[PBGamer89]

My issue isn't that Jordan has training or less training than Heather, my issue lies in that every female ringer gets cut shockingly before their time, trashed every week on social media and forums (of course she can dance, she trained, she's already good it's so boring, etc), even the judges hold them to a higher standard.

The issue is that Jordan is getting no backlash at all from being significantly more trained than the rest. No one turns, or spins like how he does without significant training.

After coming off a season of Nancy, Simone, Normani, and Heather all of which got various degrees of hate or backlash, it's incredibly odd how everyone seems to be OK with Jordan completely just being a ringer and not having a thing to say about how boring it was how good he was from the beginning and showing no growth.

[enthus-pro]

Thoughts on contestants for week 4 (in alphabetical order):

 

 

Frankie & Witney - liked the digital pyrotechnics and thought that it gave the routine a sparkling, bright, pristine feel to the quickstep. Tapping up/down the stairs, thought his frame looked nice in hold (Len) and that he moved well around the floor with Witney; liked how the routine didn't come off restrictive and closed, but rather open and free-flowing as well. Maybe the past injuries prevented him from maintaining a closer, shaped hold (back) and that the promenade zigzags could've been carried out a bit in front of Witney (ankle). But thought it was an interesting routine and hope he continues to deliver equally in his upcoming latins as well.

 

Jordan & Lindsay - thought that the contemporary dance looked original, different and that it seems Lindsay has a history (and experience) in this dance style; steps seemed to germinate from one another naturally and that it flowed well, shadowing the lyrics with effortless ease. Liked the jubilant moment as Jordan held a weightless Lindsay swimming through the air with joy, relief, and a sense of release. The vertical leap reaching into the dark, unknown, the subtle bicycle tear drop – thought the dance captured Jordan's loneliness, pain, while at the same time, showing the rebirth of a new beginning in his life. Thought it was nice to see how he openly and willingly embraced that bright chapter moving forward as well.

 

Lindsey & Mark - liked the soft quality of Lindsey's movement as she nicely conveyed and expressed her feelings towards her father. Felt as if the audience got a glimpse during one of her contemplative moments, as an innocent scene faded into thoughts of a wishful reunion with her father, with the floating dance quality highlighting the heavenly nature of her thinking. Though maybe a bit more content would've been nice (perhaps a disappearing fleckerl in hold during the music pause), thought it was nice to see her drifting in/out of her dream-like state; liked how she seems to doubt/convince herself about the authenticity of the wishful dream several times, only to have her father's presence linger with her to the very end.

 

Vanessa & Maks - thought she showed a vulnerability and that she did a nice job expressing her love for her family through the rumba routine. Liked how her body seems to be made for this style; weightless spins (seems to be her favorite), with extended arms moving into space in the opening outs and sliding doors. Still think there could be a bit more of a liquid quality/feel to the routine, and that she could've lived a bit more in each potential moment during the transitions (and when she ran towards Maks). Overall, thought it was a beautiful, touching rumba and curious to see what the couple has in store next.

 

 

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Best of luck to all the celebs and looking forward to their dances.

[MsJamieDornan]

15 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

It's not as manipulative as what Derek did in season 21 with Bindi during one of their dances, where Derek "surprised" Bindi with a picture of her and her dad at the end of their dance

It's just me.  I would react better to a picture than to my dads actual clothing.

[bealled]

7 hours ago, PBGamer89 said:

After coming off a season of Nancy, Simone, Normani, and Heather all of which got various degrees of hate or backlash, it's incredibly odd how everyone seems to be OK with Jordan completely just being a ringer and not having a thing to say about how boring it was how good he was from the beginning and showing no growth.

This is what ticks me off too. Every week people complained that it was such a boring season of ringers, yet this year Jordan appears as a huge ringer (honestly seems better than all the women last year except maybe Heather- I did understand the Heather backlash). People always have excuses too for criticizing those women, such as Normani's crazy fans. I'm not really sure about Normani's fans, but they probably are a lot of teeny boppers and may be annoying (although Jordan probably has similar teeny bopper fans). I can see why Normani's fans would be ruthless though because Normani publicly went through a horrific cyber bullying campaign.

I will admit I think there were some other factors causing criticism of the women last year. I think some just did not want Val to win again and just have a dislike for him. I think some chose to dislike Simone because Laurie was on the previous season and the clear front runner. Simone really got the short end of the stick though. Everyone claimed she was the show's choice as winner, but then it became very obvious the producers manipulated things to actually get her kicked off early. Simone was also not a Laurie, but more like a Nastia or Shawn pre-All Stars (her personality doesn't immediately come through and she has to get comfortable in her skin to truly become a great dancer). Nancy was even called a ringer last year which was aggravating. So because she ice skated 20 years ago she is professional trained and a ringer?? Nevermind her age would be a hindrance compared to how many young people were in the cast last season.

I also think some are not criticizing Jordan this season because he is paired with Lindsay and they want Lindsay to win. I think that partially played a role last season with Rashad and Emma. I definitely think Jordan will be in the finals and possibly win. Lindsay has been in the finals several times, so I do think she is a popular pro and she choreographs really well. Even though there is no one awful this season, they are also clearly way above everyone else so I would be pretty shocked to see them not make the finals.

[bealled]

I'm not sure why anyone would want Nick to mention Jessica, wouldn't that just be milking his past famous relationship? I'm sure a lot of people remember him and Jessica, but they should now embrace him and his new wife. Jessica has also remarried and probably wouldn't appreciate being brought up on a show millions watch.

Also I think Vanessa was mostly cast because Nick was. Perhaps that is the reason he even did the show, since he has previously seemed to not want to do it. I feel like they use the marriage angle because otherwise the two of them would be somewhat boring. Hopefully they chill out a little bit with it, but it seems the show loves it and wants to push this angle with them. I mean we have seen how they pushed the angle with Maks/Peta on other seasons too. The show seems to like the competing spouses aspect.

[Andie1]

1 hour ago, bealled said:

Jordan appears as a huge ringer (honestly seems better than all the women last year except maybe Heather-

Jordan dances beautifully and better than the male ballroom dancers in contemporary, but I don't understand why that disqualifies him from this competition.  Male ballroom dancers whose specialty is Latin rarely get the floating quality necessary for contemporary.  But as far as Ballroom dancing goes, so far  Nancy Kerrigan was a better Waltzer and about the same level of accomplishment in the Samba,   Heather was better at Tango, and I'd venture to say that Simone had a bigger arsenal  in jumps and leaps as she did a reverse split leap on Disney week and had a little something almost every week to demonstrate her athleticism..What makes him better than Normani is that the prescribed ballroom and latin dances he's done so far have ballroom and latin content. Val didn't give Normani enough ballroom and latin content.  So when I break down the dances he's done so far, he's great in Contemporary and Jazz (that Charleston was basically Jazz with Lindy and QS thrown in)  but Lindsay is working with him to to adjust his style and become more grounded in some of the other dances. That isn't even close to being a biggest ringer.  A ringer on this show is also someone who gives the pro lessons, (eg Sabrina or Corbin) and I haven't seen that yet from Jordan, nor do I expect to. 

Edited October 11, 2017 by Andie1

[bealled]

59 minutes ago, Andie1 said:

A ringer on this show is also someone who gives the pro lessons, (eg Sabrina or Corbin) and I haven't seen that yet from Jordan, nor do I expect to. 

I don't recall Sabrina giving the pros lessons but maybe she did. The only pro lessons Corbin gave was over hip hop from what I recall. Also, aren't Jordan and Corbin's backgrounds basically the same? Both were involved with musical theater from a young age. Both have dancer listed in their Wikipedia and have performances in various musicals which typically require dancing. Both involved with Disney. Both on Broadway. They basically have the same backgrounds so I'd consider them pretty equal ringers. Both are very talented, but it does get annoying when others are pointed at as being the worst ringers ever, yet others get a pass. To be fair, a ringer still kind of won on Corbin's season since many were saying Amber Riley had dance training from Glee. Anyway, all last season everyone complained about ringers yet this season people are giving Jordan a pass and trying to make excuses for him not being a ringer. I agree Heather was a ringer last season and perhaps Normani. I don't really think gymnasts or ice skaters are that big of ringers since most of the dancing they do is minimal and not very fluid. I just think those sports use skill sets that are used in dancing which is why many times those athletes excel on the show. I have nothing against Jordan, it is just annoying the board's reaction this season versus last season. I still hope and expect him to make the finals, and I wouldn't be mad if he won, but I don't think his past experience should be downplayed either.

[Toonces464]

2 hours ago, bealled said:

I mean we have seen how they pushed the angle with Maks/Peta on other seasons too. The show seems to like the competing spouses aspect.

Yet Maks and Peta aren't even their first competing spouses. The show seems to forget all about Edyta/Alec and Anna/Jonathan, who competed against each other for a number of seasons.

[thefog]

In regards to Jordan, keep in mind that the best technical dancer usually doesn't win.  Jordan doesn't have the fan base of Laurie Hernandez, who had come off a big Olympic win last year.  And it's ultimately the audience votes that carries more weight.   He also doesn't have the underdog narrative of Rashad Jennings.  And DWTS audiences love rallying around the underdog. 

I say watch out for Frankie and Victoria.

[Andie1]

3 hours ago, bealled said:

I don't recall Sabrina giving the pros lessons but maybe she did.

Sabrina even said "teaching Teacher" in the very first package when she put hip hop into Cha Cha for Mark and Sabrina in Season 5.  And Sabrina choreographed the "Call Me Maybe" group routine in season 15 which beat out the Gangham Style dance, so yeah she gave lessons. And Corbin taught Jazz to Karina and to lessor extent Witney.

 

3 hours ago, bealled said:

I don't really think gymnasts or ice skaters are that big of ringers

And yet Nancy did better than Jordan on the Waltz and similar to him on the Samba, while Simone did best at leaps and athleticism.  So my question is if they aren't big  ringers, why is Jordan suddenly a big one?    

Edited October 11, 2017 by Andie1

[Andie1]

1 hour ago, escape said:

In regards to Jordan, keep in mind that the best technical dancer usually doesn't win. 

Except when there's female winners.  It seems the female is allowed the dance background and win, but a guy has to win on fanbase.  The only guys who've had some dance training and won are Donny O (who actually won on fanbase more than dance but we know he took some ballroom lessons for his Vegas show) and Alfonso(who won on Carleton nostalgia as much as dance ability)  compared to Kristy, Shawn, Nicole, Jennifer, Melissa, Amber, Meryl, Rumour, Laurie, all of whom by virtue of their training had some prior knowledge and lessons and won.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Andie1

[crowceilidh]

I like the "ringers" in general (not so much Ryker because of the pretence that he wasn't and because I can't stand Allison), but I get the point that some ringers get more negative talk than others and there may be some general bias there. 

The thing about Jordan, unless there's some big secret hiding out there, is that I don't for one second think he has a chance of winning.  I just don't think he's the right type.  And I've watched the show long enough to know that his type has yet to win (super trained, young with a possibly shakey fanbase, no particular charm (not that he's not a nice guy, he just fails the surprise charm test).  And while people might think it's time for Lindsey to win (I do), the campaign to promote her so has yet to seriously gear up.

So even if I were the type to get worked up, I wouldn't be worked up about him yet.  He'd have to be threatening someone I like for me to get worked up.  So that might be one of the aspects of the silence surrounding his supposed ringer status.

[spanana]

14 minutes ago, escape said:

In regards to Jordan, keep in mind that the best technical dancer usually doesn't win.  Jordan doesn't have the fan base of Laurie Hernandez, who had come off a big Olympic win last year.  And it's ultimately the audience votes that carries more weight.   He also doesn't have the underdog narrative of Rashad Jennings.  And DWTS audiences love rallying around the underdog. 

I say watch out for Frankie and Victoria.

Frankie, if he can keep his body in one piece, then yes.  He's sort of the perfect old school DWTS contestant.  An endearing kind of underdog who works hard and is entertaining.  I don't see Victoria winning at all.  She might possibly make it to the semis or finals even, but I can't see her winning.

[boyznkatz]

I fully expect Victoria and Frankie in the finals, probably the F2. TBTB are pretty much reserving a spot for Victoria and fans love guys like Frankie. Either Jordan or Lindsey will get third place probably.

Same story every season.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I really didn't find anything wrong with Mark dressing up as Lindsey's father. The dance was about him and dads dance with their daughters all the time. It wasn't a rumba, or anything.

There's nothing "wrong" with it, per se, but it's emotionally manipulative in the extreme. That bothers me. A dance in itself can be emotional whether it's a Foxtrot or a Jive or a Rumba, but when the whole package is book-ended with the story of the dead dad and then the dancer is dressed as the dead dad, good grief. That's about a subtle as an anvil falling on your head. It screams "we're going to make you cry!"

Quote

Victoria is also a triplet. Her brothers aren’t famous

Victoria isn't "famous" either, if we're being honest.

Quote

I'm not sure why anyone would want Nick to mention Jessica, wouldn't that just be milking his past famous relationship?

Oh, no, I don't expect Nick to mention Jessica. But the problem is the show is trying to package Nick and Vanessa as this great love story and it's a hard sell because Nick and Jessica were a pretty famous celebrity couple. Your big love story loses a bit of credibility depending on how often you've been down the aisle, frankly.

[Andie1]

3 hours ago, bealled said:

but I don't think his past experience should be downplayed either.

And nobody has downplayed his past experience, he's a singer, actor dancer on his bio.  That doesn't mean he's the best at ballroom and latin dancing.

[Callaphera]

4 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

There's nothing "wrong" with it, per se, but it's emotionally manipulative in the extreme. That bothers me. A dance in itself can be emotional whether it's a Foxtrot or a Jive or a Rumba, but when the whole package is book-ended with the story of the dead dad and then the dancer is dressed as the dead dad, good grief. That's about a subtle as an anvil falling on your head. It screams "we're going to make you cry!"

And the stupid red balloon. That was a little too much for me. Especially with the yellow dress, because all I could think of was poor Georgie in IT (the remake had a poster of Pennywise handing Georgie a red balloon). We all float down here, eh, Mark?

[Andie1]

1 hour ago, crowceilidh said:

The thing about Jordan, unless there's some big secret hiding out there, is that I don't for one second think he has a chance of winning

There's always a hope, but yeah, the backlash against a male Disney kid who dances well has been the litmus test of this show.  So it bugs me that Jordan gets this huge ringer albatross when he's probably not going to see top 2 anyway.  

Edited October 11, 2017 by Andie1

[boyznkatz]

Jordan, like Zendaya, will probably be a big star with or without the show. Everyone else will probably go back to d-list land. He probably cares less whether he wins or not. I don't see a desperation vibe with him like some other contestants, so who knows.

[Andie1]

4 minutes ago, boyznkatz said:

Jordan, like Zendaya, will probably be a big star with or without the show. Everyone else will probably go back to d-list land. He probably cares less whether he wins or not. I don't see a desperation vibe with him like some other contestants, so who knows.

This is true.  He's already in the A List world of Broadway and his singing voice is pretty darn good, so this is as much a vehicle for him to be known out there, and yet it's still a competition so I root for who I think is the overall most entertaining.  So far for me that's Jordan.  Now I know there's lots to be said for those overcoming adversity, but I can't be sorry that I appreciate a great chainez turn.   

[boyznkatz]

10 minutes ago, Andie1 said:

This is true.  He's already in the A List world of Broadway and his singing voice is pretty darn good, so this is as much a vehicle for him to be known out there, and yet it's still a competition so I root for who I think is the overall most entertaining.  So far for me that's Jordan.  Now I know there's lots to be said for those overcoming adversity, but I can't be sorry that I appreciate a great chainez turn.   

Well I hope he and Lindsey make the finals so we can see their freestyles. I really don't care who wins though. I just know I wouldn't tune in to see 2 or 3 mediocre people.

I can understand why people don't like ringers and don't want to vote for them, though. The audience participation makes the show unique.

Edited October 11, 2017 by boyznkatz

[thefog]

23 minutes ago, boyznkatz said:

Jordan, like Zendaya, will probably be a big star with or without the show. Everyone else will probably go back to d-list land. He probably cares less whether he wins or not. I don't see a desperation vibe with him like some other contestants, so who knows.

This is a competition.  If he doesn't have the drive to win, then how is he going to have the drive to succeed in a very tough business.  For the record, there are many celebrities this season who are way more successful than Jordan Fisher.  I would hardly call them D-listers.

[bealled]

I have a hard time seeing Victoria crack the top 2. I could see her sneaking into the top 3, but compared to other similar contestants (Amy Purdy, Noah Galloway) she isn't as appealing and her disability is not visible. Her and Val don't have a particularly cute partnership so far, and Victoria is very forgettable. I've seen commenters here say they forgot she was on the show, and I admit to forgetting about her nearly every week. I honestly thought Drew was going to be the last dancer this week followed by the elimination until they announced Victoria as competing next.

I think Lindsay does actually have a fanbase. I know she was paired with David last season who was popular, but she has overall done pretty well in the rankings from the seasons I remember (her and Wanya I think top 4, her and Alec top 3). Personally I don't think there is a ton of strong competition for Jordan aside from Lindsey and Vanessa. While most everyone else is a solid dancer, I think those ones stand out as the actual best this season. Jordan and Lindsey I think will make the finals, although Vanessa I think could be cut before then (probably by Victoria). Frankie is good but not sure his technical abilities are as strong. However, I think his personality will endear him and take him into the finals. I actually think Frankie is the underdog this season as being the contestant with the most likable personality but maybe not objectively the best dancer. However, he has seemed fairly good so far and if he keeps it up would be good enough to win over better dancers.

One thing I like this season is that it doesn't seem like anyone is totally destined to win. Even last season was kind of a toss up, and as we saw with the results, was not who people originally thought would win. Laurie Hernandez was great, but it seemed clear from the beginning she would most likely take it (although James did give her a run for her money).

[NeverLate]

On 09/10/2017 at 10:16 PM, LotusFlower said:

Maks and Vanessa didn't look at each other once, or if they ever did, it was forced.  How convenient that they had Nick, and even Drew, talk about her in the package, so Maks didn't have to be included.  Things must have been frosty between them this week.  She looked pissed, and I don't blame her.  I can't believe he got away with his hissy fit.  Why wasn't he fired?  (And I'm a Maks fan.  Or used to be.  But not showing up for work?)

He should be fired, suck it up Maks! Slap on that phony grin.

1 hour ago, Callaphera said:

And the stupid red balloon. That was a little too much for me. Especially with the yellow dress, because all I could think of was poor Georgie in IT (the remake had a poster of Pennywise handing Georgie a red balloon). We all float down here, eh, Mark?

I loved it, and watched it three times. Love ,love love!

[Andie1]

59 minutes ago, escape said:

This is a competition.  If he doesn't have the drive to win, then how is he going to have the drive to succeed in a very tough business.  For the record, there are many celebrities this season who are way more successful than Jordan Fisher.  I would hardly call them D-listers.

There are?  I must be watching a different show.

[nutty1]

17 hours ago, marykat71702 said:

Bindi, maybe?

YES!

[luvthepros]

On 10/10/2017 at 0:42 AM, Toonces464 said:

In their red carpet interview after the show, Maks didn't even talk about her dance...just how beautiful the whole night was. It didn't look like he had much interaction with Vanessa or Peta that wasn't forced/phony. 

Are you saying that Maks and Peta are having problems? Maks had forced interaction with his wife??? I didn't see any of the red carpet interviews.

[BW Manilowe]

On 10/10/2017 at 1:21 AM, Miss Slay said:

Nick and Vanessa are two of the smartest ppl on this show. They are determined to revitalize their careers.

They've got Nick singing. Check.

And lots of family footage of Nick and Vanessa. (Hence helping the public forget the newlyweds. ;))

Oh, yeah, and they danced well too. I predict Vanessa replaces Erin as co-host in 4,3,2...

Can anybody tell me, did Nick sing live to Vanessa's dance? I didn't actually see the dance (I check them out on YouTube to see them) but I was wondering if he did since he & Peta danced before Vanessa & Maks & he probably could've sung live if he &/or Vanessa wanted.

Edited October 11, 2017 by BW Manilowe
To fix a spacing issue.

[luvthepros]

On 10/10/2017 at 6:04 AM, PBGamer89 said:

............Thinking back I don't think a single male ringer has EVER gotten backlash. ......

IIRC, Mario Lopez was raked over the coals about his dance training. I remember watching posted videos of him dancing on "Saved By the Bell". What about Riker who is a Hough cousin? He was also labeled a "ringer" and was given a hard time for his dance training. Didn't Riker actually compete in Ballroom as an amateur when he was a kid? I never would have known that unless it was all over the forums.

Then there is Evan Lysaceck, the ice skater. He didn't have a chance with the ringer label. He was up against a huge ringer in the top 2 (Nicole S.) but he didn't have a chance at the trophy. Len made sure of that with his pitiful score on his Elvis Freestyle.

That's just a few but I think there may be more.

[boyznkatz]

They announced Nick was going to sing the song, but I don't remember them showing him.

[Callaphera]

59 minutes ago, Andie1 said:

There are?  I must be watching a different show.

Well, just because you may not follow those celebrities doesn't mean they aren't successful in their own right. 

For instance, Nikki Bella is the longest reigning WWE Diva's champion (they've since renamed the title to Women's Champion). She's engaged to one of the biggest WWE stars in recent history and stars on two successful reality shows, the second of which was a spin-off of the first and is based strictly around her and her family. She's hella successful and has a huge fan base that caters to younger girls with her Fearless branding. She's a crap wrestler, though her sister was probably worse, but she makes a ton of money (both for her and the WWE), does a lot of charity work, and is one of the faces of the female side of the WWE brand. 

Does that make her an A Lister in the grand scheme of things? Nope. But within her world, she would be considered an A Lister. And she had an enormous fan base, both because of herself and because of John Cena. The one thing she has against her is that DWTS is on at the same time and day as WWE Raw, their flagship show. (For full disclosure, I only watch Wrestlemania every year but I watch the hell out of Total Divas and Total Bellas because I love me some cheesy scripted "reality" shows.)

Nick Lachey isn't an A Lister, but he's certainly not a D Lister. I would argue that his appeal is more nostalgic than anything. I can't comment on Terrell Owens or Derek Fisher because I'm a hockey fan but I imagine they would be considered in the A to B Lister range within their worlds. In fact, I would argue that most of the celebrities fall into the B range if you look at it from an overall perspective, but A to high B Listers within their own circles. 

Also, this is Dancing with the Stars. They're never going to have A Listers. Those would be people like George Clooney or Leonardo DiCaprio. You're never gonna see those people on this show. Just because you're not an A Lister doesn't mean that you're a D Lister. And just because you don't follow someone doesn't mean they're not famous, known, or successful in their own right. 

Edited October 11, 2017 by Callaphera

[BW Manilowe]

On 10/10/2017 at 10:45 AM, Toonces464 said:

Erin always picks one female each season to gush over. If she can't find one she likes, she falls back on Peta and Sharna.

 

I've read she's a total diva that's ticked off the whole cast and crew.

Well, I don't necessarily think Vanessa's ticked off the whole cast. I don't think there would be a reason she'd have ticked off Nick, unless it'd be because she gets better scores than he does.

[boyznkatz]

3 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

Well, just because you may not follow those celebrities doesn't mean they aren't successful in their own right. 

For instance, Nikki Bella is the longest reigning WWE Diva's champion (they've since renamed the title to Women's Champion). She's engaged to one of the biggest WWE stars in recent history and stars on two successful reality shows, the second of which was a spin-off of the first and is based strictly around her and her family. She's hella successful and has a huge fan base that caters to younger girls with her Fearless branding. She's a crap wrestler, though her sister was probably worse, but she makes a ton of money (both for her and the WWE), does a lot of charity work, and is one of the faces of the female side of the WWE brand. 

Does that make her an A Lister in the grand scheme of things? Nope. But within her world, she would be considered an A Lister. And she had an enormous fan base, both because of herself and because of John Cena. The one thing she has against her is that DWTS is on at the same time and day as WWE Raw, their flagship show. (For full disclosure, I only watch Wrestlemania every year but I watch the hell out of Total Divas and Total Bellas because I love me some cheesy scripted "reality" shows.)

Nick Lachey isn't an A Lister, but he's certainly not a D Lister. I would argue that his appeal is more nostalgic than anything. I can't comment on Terrell Owens or Derek Fisher because I'm a hockey fan but I imagine they would be considered in the A to B Lister range within their worlds. In fact, I would argue that most of the celebrities fall into the B range if you look at it from an overall perspective, but A to high B Listers within their own circles. 

Also, this is Dancing with the Stars. They're never going to have A Listers. Those would be people like George Clooney or Leonardo DiCaprio. You're never gonna see those people on this show. Just because you're not an A Lister doesn't mean that you're a D Lister. And just because you don't follow someone doesn't mean they're not famous in their own right. 

I agree with you about Nikki Bella and Terrell Owens (and Drew Scott even though you didn't mention him) but what has Nick done in the past 10-15 years?

[Callaphera]

5 minutes ago, boyznkatz said:

I agree with you about Nikki Bella and Terrell Owens (and Drew Scott even though you didn't mention him) but what has Nick done in the past 10-15 years?

That's why I said "nostalgia", which still elevates you to a certain level from former boy band fan girls like me that are now in their mid-thirties. I think he's still releasing solo material but I imagine his popularity and sales is nothing like 98 Degrees back in the day. As an aside, the 98 Degrees Christmas album is one that I still play every year (same as the NSYNC one. Backstreet Boys can go suck an egg).

ETA: I don't watch many home improvement shows but judging from how many times I see Property Brothers show up on the guide for HGTV, yeah, he's probably pretty well known within his circle.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Callaphera

[calipiano81]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

There's nothing "wrong" with it, per se, but it's emotionally manipulative in the extreme. That bothers me. A dance in itself can be emotional whether it's a Foxtrot or a Jive or a Rumba, but when the whole package is book-ended with the story of the dead dad and then the dancer is dressed as the dead dad, good grief. That's about a subtle as an anvil falling on your head. It screams "we're going to make you cry!"

 

I actually think it wouldn't have made sense for Mark NOT to dress up like Lindsey's dad. If he had just had on a regular suit, for me, it would have removed a personal touch from the dance and lessened its impact. 

I felt there was a beauty and poignancy to their dance, even if one is not predisposed to get emotional about such things.

[dizzyizzy01]

Far more people are going to recognize Derek Fisher or TO than Jordan if you do a random polling off the street.  Pretty much anyone that follows the NBA or NFL in the last decade which is a whole heck of  a lot of people, would know who either of these two are.

Last thing I remember Nick from is the Sing Off.  While I do think Jordan's star is on the rise, Nick's had a lot of past success.  He's on the level of a Mario Lopez or something.  If nothing else, he's still got name recognition, which Jordan actually doesn't have (currently anyway).  

With all that said, Jordan and Lindsey S. are pretty much the only contestants I actually want to see dance though week to week.  

[boyznkatz]

Derek probably is recognized by a lot of people, but it didn't help him because TPTB didn't have a vested interest in him. As long as they shove people like Victoria and the Lacheys down our throats, those are the people who are going to last long. Jordan may not be very well known right now, but I do think he will become a big star in the future. No matter though, if people don't vote for him, he won't win.

Edited October 11, 2017 by boyznkatz

[birkenstock]

Derek Fisher is/was a basketball A-lister.  He won five NBA championships with the Lakers, the 3-peat in the early 2000s and then two after his daughter was diagnosed with cancer. I think he was even the president of the NBA players association for a while.  He sucked as a basketball coach though. I'm surprised he didn't go farther though apparently the NBA and DWTS demographic don't overlap much.  

I don't really like the competing spouses gimmick or any potential dual of the multiples.  I think it gives too much attention to certain dancers over others who actually deserve the show's attention.  Nick and Vanessa on the show have been more tolerable than Alexa and Carlos because Nick and Vanessa are competing.  Alexa worried about Carlos too much.  I do think Nick did this for Vanessa and they're hyper-focusing on family, but there isn't a feeling of desperation or overcompensating that I felt with the Penavegas. It may be that Nick and Vanessa were a couple longer or are a little more financially secure.  In terms of Maks being offended by any manufactured focus on family, he can't really take the high ground after his hyped showmance with Meryl Davis.  

Is Victoria getting a lot of fan feedback?  I haven't really been paying much attention to her. I don't know if she is resonating as much as Noah or Amy Purdy.

[thefog]

3 hours ago, Andie1 said:

This is true.  He's already in the A List world of Broadway and his singing voice is pretty darn good, so this is as much a vehicle for him to be known out there, and yet it's still a competition so I root for who I think is the overall most entertaining.  So far for me that's Jordan.  Now I know there's lots to be said for those overcoming adversity, but I can't be sorry that I appreciate a great chainez turn.   

Jordan Fisher is not an A-lister on Broadway.  He's only done one production - in a featured role that he did not even originate.  He's never had a starring role in a play or musical.  And Hamilton was really a star vehicle for Lin-Manual Miranda.

Edited October 11, 2017 by escape

[iMonrey]

Quote

Jordan, like Zendaya, will probably be a big star with or without the show.

Did Zendaya become a "big star?" I've not heard a thing about her since she was last on this show. 

[MsJamieDornan]

1 hour ago, Callaphera said:

I can't comment on Terrell Owens or Derek Fisher

Derek Fisher turned down more money than Jordan will make,,,just my guess. When someone offers you 21 million (years ago) you're famous. It might be just in sports, but he is famous. Same with Terrell.

[dizzyizzy01]

16 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Did Zendaya become a "big star?" I've not heard a thing about her since she was last on this show. 

I wouldn't call her a big star, but she has had some really high-profile gigs post DWTS.  She's the new "MJ" in the rebooted Spider Man.

[BW Manilowe]

On 10/10/2017 at 4:54 PM, iMonrey said:

The thing is, Nick & Jessica were a pretty "famous" celebrity couple. Nick & Vanessa? Not so much.I personally have never heard of Vanessa before this show and Nick's career isn't exactly on fire anymore either. So it feels like this show is trying to make "Nick & Vanessa" a thing, and I'm not buying it. I think Nick & Jessica still overshadow Nick & Vanessa. (And I'm just dying for someone to accidentally call Vanessa "Jessica." )

Well, sure. But it's not "my grandma and/or dad just died" or "my baby was born with eye-cancer." I mean, in terms of audibly bawling after the dance is over? Until Tom had to remind him the show wasn't over and he had to stop bawling into his grandparents' arms? That seemed a bit extreme to me. Not saying he was "milking it," but this is something good that happened when he was five. Not something tragic that just happened in the last six to twelve months. Calm the F down, kid.

Vanessa's professional name used to be Vanessa Minnillo. Among other things, she was Miss Teen USA in 1998, representing South Carolina in the pageant. She's also been a NYC based correspondent for Entertainment Tonight & hosted MTV's Total Request Live, & co-hosted the ABC show Wipeout & The 2007 Miss Universe Pageant. And, she & Nick guest starred together in an S1 episode (Powa Maka Moana [Pirate]) of the current Hawaii Five-0 reboot. Nick & Vanessa's characters were a couple. Nick kidnaped a group of kids of wealthy parents off of a Spring Break party boat (which he lured them to) & held them for ransom. Vanessa was a crew member on the boat &, it turns out, Nick's accomplice.

[MsJamieDornan]

4 hours ago, Callaphera said:

but what has Nick done in the past 10-15 years?

Star vs. the Forces of Evil (TV Series)
Justin Towers

- Collateral Damage/Just Friends (2017) ... Justin Towers (voice)

 2011 Hawaii Five-0 (TV Series)
Tyler

- Powa Maka Moana (2011) ... Tyler

 2010 The Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson (TV Series)
Ronnie

- Episode #6.85 (2010) ... Ronnie

 2007 Rise: Blood Hunter
Dwayne

 2006 The Hard Easy
Jason Burns

 2006 Twins (TV Series)
Charlie

- Himbo (2006) ... Charlie

 2006 She Said/He Said (TV Movie)

 2005 Bewitched
Vietnam Soldier

 2004 Hope & Faith (TV Series)
Chris

- Just-In Time (2004) ... Chris

 2004 Charmed (TV Series)
Leslie St. Claire

- Once in a Blue Moon (2004) ... Leslie St. Claire

- Styx Feet Under (2004) ... Leslie St. Claire

- Charrrmed! (2004) ... Leslie St. Claire

- Cheaper by the Coven (2004) ... Leslie St. Claire

- The Bare Witch Project (2004) ... Leslie St. Claire

Show all 6 episodes

 2004 Hot Momma (TV Movie)
Cooper

 2004 I'm with Her (TV Series)
Tyler Vance

- I'm Not with Her (2004) ... Tyler Vance

 2004 American Dreams (TV Series)
Tom Jones

- To Tell the Truth (2004) ... Tom Jones

 

Well, that didnt turn out as planned.......

Edited October 12, 2017 by MsJamieDornan
I'm dumb

[peachmangosteen]

1 hour ago, Callaphera said:

As an aside, the 98 Degrees Christmas album is one that I still play every year (same as the NSYNC one. Backstreet Boys can go suck an egg).

Wow, you're really hurting me here, @Callaphera.

[Callaphera]

11 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Wow, you're really hurting me here, @Callaphera.

To be fair, they were my boyband introduction. But then JC Chasez grew up from the Mickey Mouse Club and BSB got left in the dust for me. Mmm, JC Chasez.