Season 4 Talk

[Willowsmom]

Was it Henry II of England or France?

[AuntiePam]

11 minutes ago, Willowsmom said:

Was it Henry II of England or France?

I think England.  Or I assumed England -- wasn't it farther back than the 1500's? 

[BusyOctober]

Wasn’t it Gabby who’s 27x GG was Henry II?  Tea’s brush with fame was that her slave owning 1700’s GG of Irish descent was Geo. Washington’s neighbor.  But like shapeshifter and iMonrey posted, I am dubious of most of Tea’s ascribed lineage.  Way too many unknowns (based on what was aired IMO) to determine anything certain.

[Arynm]

Tea's mothers story was hitting way close to home for me. I cried with her when she saw a picture of her biological grandmother. I am adopted and before I had children, there was no one that looked like me. I can only imagine my reaction would be the same if I saw a picture of my biological mother, or any family members for that matter. DNA is an amazing thing.

[Constant Viewer]

I'm curious about the link to Henry II. I wonder if it was through Eleanor of Aquitaine (who was awesome by the way) or one of his mistresses.

[attica]

A friend of mine is acquainted with Leoni. I have to make them watch this ep! (They always speak well of her, fwiw. She's always sweet and pleasant to them.)

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, attica said:

A friend of mine is acquainted with Leoni. I have to make them watch this ep! (They always speak well of her, fwiw. She's always sweet and pleasant to them.)

I wouldn't necessarily want to have Leoni's bubble burst by having someone point out to her the possibly flawed methodology of the DNA sampling. 

On a related note: When these wealthy, highly-paid actors with "southern roots" unsurprisingly discover slave owning ancestors, I would think the actors would like to at least make a gesture towards reparations by donating to, say, scholarships for descendants of slaves and victims of human trafficking. In fact, it seems the show would have established such a fund by now.

Branching off in another direction: I do like to imagine that DNA pools will grow deep enough to definitively trace ancestries, both for historical understanding and biological—as well as natural curiosity. My two oldest daughters are not going to have children, and the youngest is coming to terms with that possibility as well. So now my initial horror at learning 15 years ago that my middle daughter had sold her eggs has turned to curiosity about a possible biological grandchild, and wondering about whether that child might want to know about her "roots." 

Edited November 23, 2017 by shapeshifter

[AuntiePam]

13 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

On a related note: When these wealthy, highly-paid actors with "southern roots" unsurprisingly discover slave owning ancestors, I would think the actors would like to at least make a gesture towards reparations by donating to, say, scholarships for descendants of slaves and victims of human trafficking. In fact, it seems the show would have established such a fund by now.

I disagree.  It's not their responsibility to atone, and as Gates himself has said, owning slaves was common in the South.  It wasn't just wealthy plantation owners who had slaves. 

Also, we don't know where these wealthy actors donate -- it's quite possible they're doing more than their share. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

Wasn’t it Gabby who’s 27x GG was Henry II?

It was Tea's family tree that was traced back to Henry II of England but they did not specify whether it was legitimately or not. They said they traced Gaby's family tree back to Charlemagne, but I was unclear whether they meant she was actually descended from Charlemagne, or whether they had traced her family tree back to the time of Charlemagne. 

[biakbiak]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

It was Tea's family tree that was traced back to Henry II of England but they did not specify whether it was legitimately or not. They said they traced Gaby's family tree back to Charlemagne, but I was unclear whether they meant she was actually descended from Charlemagne, or whether they had traced her family tree back to the time of Charlemagne. 

Most like the former because if you have European DNA you are most likely related to Charlemagne.

[Driad]

Yes, most people of European descent are descended from Chuck the Prolific.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4641632/Leading-geneticist-says-related-royalty.html

Edited November 24, 2017 by Driad

[kassa]

It's one thing to know everybody traces back -- another to have the paperwork to show how  ;)

[Driad]

Quote

It's one thing to know everybody traces back -- another to have the paperwork to show how  ;)

For people in the US, finding a well-researched ancestor with royal ancestry can do the trick.  For example, many New Englanders are descended from Thomas Dudley (1586-1649), governor of Massachusetts.  In “Royal Descents of 600 Immigrants,” Gary Boyd Roberts (a careful and reliable researcher) traced Dudley’s ancestry to John "Lackland" King of England.  “Meh,” you may say, but John’s mother was Eleanor of Aquitaine.

[Snarklepuss]

1 hour ago, Driad said:

For people in the US, finding a well-researched ancestor with royal ancestry can do the trick.  For example, many New Englanders are descended from Thomas Dudley (1586-1649), governor of Massachusetts.  In “Royal Descents of 600 Immigrants,” Gary Boyd Roberts (a careful and reliable researcher) traced Dudley’s ancestry to John "Lackland" King of England.  “Meh,” you may say, but John’s mother was Eleanor of Aquitaine.

Yes, all they'd need to do is find one ancestor with a well researched, published genealogy to be able to go back that far as the work has already been done for them.  That's how I'm aware of my own link to Henry II.
 

On 11/22/2017 at 10:45 PM, AuntiePam said:

I disagree.  It's not their responsibility to atone, and as Gates himself has said, owning slaves was common in the South.  It wasn't just wealthy plantation owners who had slaves.

ITA, plus if it wasn't for this show I never would have learned that other blacks and even Jews owned slaves back then in the South.

I am a firm believer that we don't inherit guilt and thankfully in our more enlightened times we don't have to inherit victimhood either.  Our family history is significant and in many ways our ancestors make us who we are but what they actually did is still not our responsibility nor should we give what bad things they did any reason to affect us now.  There should be no such thing as guilt by family history.  JMO.

Edited November 25, 2017 by Snarklepuss

[Traiasio]

On 11/18/2017 at 4:25 PM, riverblue22 said:

Here are my results from Ancestry.  I find them confusing when my mother was 100% German.  My German ancestors must have migrated from somewhere as well.

It seems a lot of people find their results confusing. These articles provide some explanations.

http://www.legalgenealogist.com/2016/05/01/those-percentages-revisited/
http://gnxp.nofe.me/2017/03/23/your-ancestry-inference-is-precise-and-accurateish/
https://dna-explained.com/2016/02/10/ethnicity-testing-a-conundrum/
https://thegeneticgenealogist.com/2012/06/19/problems-with-ancestrydnas-genetic-ethnicity-prediction/

 

On 11/19/2017 at 8:35 AM, Snarklepuss said:

P.S.  When I went on interviews there was always someone taller/blonder/more WASPy looking than myself which was my own version of "colorism" as I am short, shapely and more "ethnic" looking with dark curly hair.  Yes, that kind of prejudice does exist even in the white world.  The only plus I had was that my last name didn't end in an "o".  My own mother had to change her last name when she was young because it greatly increased her chances of getting a job not to have a name that ended in a vowel.

That sounds more like heightism/weightism/lookism to me than colorism, and I doubt anyone would ever be denied a job for any of those reasons, much less based on hair color (except maybe in show business, which can be shallow).

As for your second comment, Italian Americans rarely changed their names - just a few in show biz but that's different. And they never faced any systemic discrimination in jobs or anywhere else either.

http://italianthro.blogspot.com/2015/02/white-on-arrival.html

[OtterMommy]

Let's not forget PTV's Golden Rule: Be Civil.  It is not appropriate to attack others for their views.  If you see something that you think crosses the line, do not engage--just report the post. 

It is fine to talk about how racism played a role in the guests' stories, but please keep it in terms of the show and do not resort to personal attacks.

[ShelleySue]

On November 22, 2017 at 1:16 PM, Willowsmom said:

Was it Henry II of England or France?

On November 22, 2017 at 1:30 PM, AuntiePam said:

I think England.  Or I assumed England -- wasn't it farther back than the 1500's? 

 

On November 23, 2017 at 5:51 PM, biakbiak said:

Most like the former because if you have European DNA you are most likely related to Charlemagne.

Henry II is on my husband's tree and can be traced directly to Charlemagne.  I'm not sure why they didn't say that about Tea.  (BTW - I have not confirmed my husband's tree.)

I loved the family portrait with Gabby's father on the tv screen.

[Jadzia]

On 11/22/2017 at 0:32 AM, shapeshifter said:

My skeptic's radar went off when they said they used nothing but the DNA in a database to find Tea Leoni's birth parents. IDK. Could she share 11.3% DNA with a bunch of other people of the right age and geography too if the DNA database had been more completely populated? And what were the odds that both her parents' DNA were in that database? 

They sort of glossed over the process used but it is a process that adoptees use all the time to discover their birth parents. It's not about finding her actual parents DNA in the database (although that can happen rarely). It's about studying your more distant matches: the 2nd, 3rd and 4th cousins that indicate you have a shared ancestor. It's a painstaking process but it involves looking through those matches trees and determining the common ancestor. You essentially need to triangulate your matches and by comparing them to each other to determine which lines they belong to. You might have to build out family trees for some of the matches in order to connect them to each other. Once you determine the right set of great grandparents then you have to build their tree downwards by identifying their children and spouses and the rest of their descendants. It's much easier when you have a closer match, say a 2nd cousin because then you know you share a set of great grandparents (2 out of 8 possible ancestors) as opposed to a 4th cousin, who share a set of of great great great parents, which is 2 out of 32 possible ancestors.

I'd be interested to know what the closest match was for Tea's mom.

Also, I am a member of CeCe Moore's Facebook group (she is the genetic genealogist who did this search and works with a lot of adoptees to find their family). She posted that Tea's grandmother was still alive and the show arranged a reunion with the family. I can understand them wanting to do this off-camera but I was surprised the show did not mention it as postscript.

[Enigma X]

15 minutes ago, Jadzia said:

They sort of glossed over the process used but it is a process that adoptees use all the time to discover their birth parents. It's not about finding her actual parents DNA in the database (although that can happen rarely). It's about studying your more distant matches: the 2nd, 3rd and 4th cousins that indicate you have a shared ancestor. It's a painstaking process but it involves looking through those matches trees and determining the common ancestor. You essentially need to triangulate your matches and by comparing them to each other to determine which lines they belong to. You might have to build out family trees for some of the matches in order to connect them to each other. Once you determine the right set of great grandparents then you have to build their tree downwards by identifying their children and spouses and the rest of their descendants. It's much easier when you have a closer match, say a 2nd cousin because then you know you share a set of great grandparents (2 out of 8 possible ancestors) as opposed to a 4th cousin, who share a set of of great great great parents, which is 2 out of 32 possible ancestors.

I'd be interested to know what the closest match was for Tea's mom.

Also, I am a member of CeCe Moore's Facebook group (she is the genetic genealogist who did this search and works with a lot of adoptees to find their family). She posted that Tea's grandmother was still alive and the show arranged a reunion with the family. I can understand them wanting to do this off-camera but I was surprised the show did not mention it as postscript.

@Jadzia Thanks for this post.

I stopped and started many posts with an attempt to say almost the exact same thing.

[Driad]

Re royal ancestry -- Prince Harry of England is engaged to an American woman.  A news report today said that she is “not of royal blood.”  Who decides this?  (Guessing it was the news agency.)  How far back do they look? Would Charlemagne count?

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Driad said:

Re royal ancestry -- Prince Harry of England is engaged to an American woman.  A news report today said that she is “not of royal blood.”  Who decides this?  (Guessing it was the news agency.)  How far back do they look? Would Charlemagne count?

Reading this post makes me wish she would be featured on this show, but I seriously doubt the royals would be up for that.

[Arynm]

15 hours ago, Driad said:

 A news report today said that she is “not of royal blood.”

I read a story that said Megan's ancestor was beheaded by King Henry VIII. So, she might not be royal, but she has some blue blood in there somewhere. Besides, who really cares nowadays? Kate Middleton wasn't royal either I don't think. I would love to see either of those ladies on this show. It will never happen, but a girl can dream.

http://www.history.com/news/henry-viii-beheaded-meghan-markles-ancestor

[riverblue22]

I was concerned that the series was over, but they are taking a break.  There are two more to come, December 12 and 19.

[iMonrey]

That's weird - my episode guide had an episode listed for last night and my DVR even recorded the usual hour but it wasn't on. It said it was an episode with Donna Brazille - has anyone seen that aired yet?

[OtterMommy]

2 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

That's weird - my episode guide had an episode listed for last night and my DVR even recorded the usual hour but it wasn't on. It said it was an episode with Donna Brazille - has anyone seen that aired yet?

Wasn't Donna Brazille on in a previous season?  

[Sew Sumi]

Yes. I remember her episode.

[Sew Sumi]

Found the Donna Brazile episode on YouTube totally by accident. 

[NowVoyager]

On 11/30/2017 at 10:46 PM, Sew Sumi said:

Found the Donna Brazile episode on YouTube totally by accident. 

Thank you so much for posting this. I'm sure I've seen it before, but I really enjoyed the re-watch during the show's hiatus.

I was really struck by the white actor Ty Burrell being presented with evidence that his 4xs(?) great-grandmother was an African slave who bore a child at 13 from her 30-something slavemaster. I felt his pain. Like: that's horrendous! But! If not for that, you wouldn't be here. It's hard to reconcile... The photographs of his lovely, strong, Black/mulatto x-times great-grandmother were fabulous! & the story about how she moved to Oregon & earned her land....

I was also moved by Donna Brazile's tears & the fabulous artist Kara Walker's revelations.

All in all, a great episode! Thanks again!

[meep.meep]

Am I the only one who saw the show last night?  Questlove's family story was amazing!  The last slave ship to come from Africa, and then there's an actual picture of the man who looks just like him.  I just wish they'd shown the DNA results that might have told where they actually came from in Africa.

[Jadzia]

34 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

Am I the only one who saw the show last night? 

This episode didn't air in Detroit for some reason. :( Looks like I have to wait until next week - they will show the last two episodes back to back. I hate them messing with my show!

[shapeshifter]

57 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

Am I the only one who saw the show last night?  Questlove's family story was amazing!  The last slave ship to come from Africa, and then there's an actual picture of the man who looks just like him.  I just wish they'd shown the DNA results that might have told where they actually came from in Africa.

I was just waiting for someone else to post. ;-)

Questlove's 3 X great (I think) grandfather looked exactly like Questlove! IMO. I wonder if we could compare the DNA from both of them if it would be unusually similar.

Interesting that Dr Phil's slave owning ancestor was the grandson of an indentured servant. Too bad he can't go back in time and interview them for his show. Like, [in Texas drawl] "What was going through your mind when you were working alongside your slaves, knowing that your own grandpappy was an indentured servant himself?"

[meep.meep]

51 minutes ago, Jadzia said:

This episode didn't air in Detroit for some reason. :( Looks like I have to wait until next week - they will show the last two episodes back to back. I hate them messing with my show!

That's so strange because my station had it listed as a repeat on Comcast, but they've been running promos for it all last week.  So I gave it a try.  It's a good one!

[Driad]

Time Magazine story about this week's episode: Why Questlove's Discovery About His Ancestry on Finding Your Roots Is So Unusual
 

[riverblue22]

I enjoyed this program as well.  Questlove's story was amazing.  I was also interested in Dr. Phil's story since my ancestor came over to Maryland in 1662 as an indentured servant.  I found the records he was shown very interesting, and now I need to get to Annapolis and take a look at my ancestor's records.

[Sew Sumi]

They showed the "Thank God I'm Black!" woman's episode last night here in the SF Bay Area. My DVR would have picked up a new episode. Next week appears to be Amy Schumer, Aziz Ansari, and Maya Rudolph. I'm pretty sure Ive seen Maya's story before, but my DVR us picking it up as new. Maybe she was on Who Do You Think You Are?

Edited December 14, 2017 by Sew Sumi

[Driad]

Here is a schedule of this season, listing the guests:

http://www.pbs.org/weta/finding-your-roots/watch/tv-schedule/

It lists next week's ep as Garrison Keillor, Amy Schumer and Aziz Ansari.  Maybe they have removed the Garrison Keillor segments and put in Maya Rudolph instead, even if she was in a previous season.

[biakbiak]

3 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

They showed the "Thank God I'm Black!" woman's episode last night here in the SF Bay Area. My DVR would have picked up a new episode. Next week appears to be Amy Schumer, Aziz Ansari, and Maya Rudolph. I'm pretty sure Ive seen Maya's story before, but my DVR us picking it up as new. Maybe she was on Who Do You Think You Are?

I guess it must depend on the station, in SF on KQED I got the Questlove ep.

[meep.meep]

Me too.  As I said, the cable listing showed a repeat, and my DVR didn't pick it up as a new episode, but I watched it on KQED and it definitely was not a repeat.

[Driad]

Garrison Keillor had been scheduled to be on next week, but...

https://blog.eogn.com/2017/12/13/garrison-keillor-pulled-from-pbs-series-finding-your-roots/

[OtterMommy]

6 minutes ago, Driad said:

Garrison Keillor had been scheduled to be on next week, but...

https://blog.eogn.com/2017/12/13/garrison-keillor-pulled-from-pbs-series-finding-your-roots/

I had wondered if that was going to happen.  I only vaguely remember Maya Rudolph's segment, so I'm thinking I can convince myself that it's a new one....

[biakbiak]

2 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

I had wondered if that was going to happen.  I only vaguely remember Maya Rudolph's segment, so I'm thinking I can convince myself that it's a new one....

And Maya fits into the funny people group better than Garrison! 

[Sew Sumi]

18 hours ago, biakbiak said:

I guess it must depend on the station, in SF on KQED I got the Questlove ep.

It didn't pick up on my DVR. I'm also watching on KQED.

[Snarklepuss]

I think the Questlove segment was my favorite ever on this show.  That had to be the ultimate grand slam/home run of African American genealogy right there.  He was in a state of shock when he first learned of his lineage and I wonder what he would say about it after he had a chance to process the news.  Watching the clips over again brings a tear to my eye every time.  Another reason this is the best genealogy show on the air.

[friendperidot]

I find this show fascinating. It is the American experience. We are so mixed in so many ways and so inter-related in so many ways. I have slave owners in my history, I'm neither ashamed or proud.  I probably have some slaves somewhere in my history too, that part I don't know. I do know there is a Native American Great-Grandmother, and other than her being the person I was named for and she died when my mother was about 16, it's all I know about her. She passed as white, it's just a fact, it was the early 20th century, she did what she had to do. I know quite a bit about my paternal ancestry, but other than some names on my maternal side, I have little else. I do know my Great-Grandmother traveled to Missouri in a covered wagon, I remember her before she had dementia and I remember her telling me that. That was the sort of question children who grew up watching shows like Wagon Train asked their parents in those days, lol, but it went back a couple of generations. 

I am always fascinated by this show, no matter who the guests are. Sometimes, I have never heard of them, but seeing them learn their histories makes them all human and their families' struggles human. I understand when they struggle with learning that an ancestor was a small child and a slave or traveled on a ship from Russia. When I was in my 30s, my dad told me a story of when he was a child and was abused by his step-father and when he forgave his step-father for the abuse. I have a harder time forgiving the man. But I wanted to cry and to hold that young child and comfort him. 

This show is so easy to relate to, no matter who and where you come from. 

[Driad]

Amy Schumer’s ancestor’s brothers who were captured and taken to Canada by Native Americans and refused to return to their birth family -- Prof. Gates expressed surprise at their refusal, but from accounts I have read, it was not uncommon.

[riverblue22]

1 minute ago, Driad said:

Amy Schumer’s ancestor’s brothers who were captured and taken to Canada by Native Americans and refused to return to their birth family -- Prof. Gates expressed surprise at their refusal, but from accounts I have read, it was not uncommon.

Yes, I have heard other stories like that. I was surprised that it was new to him

[biakbiak]

2 hours ago, riverblue22 said:

Yes, I have heard other stories like that. I was surprised that it was new to him

I think a lot of thoae reactions are scripted. It reminded me of a 48 hours reporter who has been on the show for 20 years aaying they have never heard of rape fantasies. Maybe he was trying to bond with theor cousin.

I was surprised that they as far and it wasn't that far. With Aziz because of lack of records.

[Queena]

On 11/27/2017 at 0:17 PM, Jadzia said:

They sort of glossed over the process used but it is a process that adoptees use all the time to discover their birth parents. It's not about finding her actual parents DNA in the database (although that can happen rarely). It's about studying your more distant matches: the 2nd, 3rd and 4th cousins that indicate you have a shared ancestor. It's a painstaking process but it involves looking through those matches trees and determining the common ancestor. You essentially need to triangulate your matches and by comparing them to each other to determine which lines they belong to. You might have to build out family trees for some of the matches in order to connect them to each other. Once you determine the right set of great grandparents then you have to build their tree downwards by identifying their children and spouses and the rest of their descendants. It's much easier when you have a closer match, say a 2nd cousin because then you know you share a set of great grandparents (2 out of 8 possible ancestors) as opposed to a 4th cousin, who share a set of of great great great parents, which is 2 out of 32 possible ancestors.

I'd be interested to know what the closest match was for Tea's mom.

Also, I am a member of CeCe Moore's Facebook group (she is the genetic genealogist who did this search and works with a lot of adoptees to find their family). She posted that Tea's grandmother was still alive and the show arranged a reunion with the family. I can understand them wanting to do this off-camera but I was surprised the show did not mention it as postscript.

Have you ever heard of Lori Erica Ruff? They did something like that to find her identity. 

 

I found Tea Leoni story fascinating. 

[Blergh]

11 hours ago, Driad said:

Amy Schumer’s ancestor’s brothers who were captured and taken to Canada by Native Americans and refused to return to their birth family -- Prof. Gates expressed surprise at their refusal, but from accounts I have read, it was not uncommon.

I've heard of that happening, too. I also would like to add that Miss Schumer's direct ancestor not only had his brothers refuse to leave the Mohawk tribe but their sister opted to become a nun in Quebec! It's hard to decide which fate the Massachusetts colonial ancestor would have been more horrified for the neighbors to have found out- the brothers who became 'savages' or the sister  who became a 'Papist nun'  -to say nothing of likely never predicting that his distant descendant ( Miss Schumer's own mother) would have married a Jewish person.

 

 Oh, before I forget I found the account of Questlove's ancestor having been among the last  confirmed folks from Africa brought here to be enslaved rather fascinating (and, I have to wonder how they were able to adjust not just to slavery itself but suddenly having to be in a totally alien environment with no one to speak their language- at least his direct ancestors had each other and would eventually have their own community).

Edited December 20, 2017 by Blergh

[iMonrey]

I really enjoyed this last one with Schumer, Ansari and Rudolph because I knew them all. The past several episodes have featured a lot of people I've never heard of before and frankly they just didn't interest me that much.

I've watched both seasons of Master of None and did not realize those were Aziz Ansari's real parents playing his parents on the show. But it does explain why they were so horrible. His mother, in particular, was just painful to watch. I'm sure they are lovely people in real life but he should never have cast them on his show. I will say that the idea of their arranged marriage is fascinating, if alien to me.

Maya Rudolph's mother was very pretty but I had never heard of her before. However, having looked her up, I instantly recognize her hit song from the 70's, "Lovin' You." 

It's a pet peeve of mine, when they don't show the family chain connecting Amy Schumer to her 8x great grandfather from the 1600s.  I don't know why it bugs me, but it does. We don't know exactly how she's descended from him - only that it's through her mother's side. 

For instance, I can trace my roots back to an American Indian, but to get there, I have to go through my father's mothers' mother's father's mother's mother's mother. So I sometimes suspect they don't show the exact family tree because in cases like this, the route seems too circuitous, and therefore, less compelling somehow. It's not great great great grandpappy Schumer, in other words, it's some roundabout way back to someone they found an interesting story about.