S11.E03: He Peed! He Peed!

[Tikichick]

3 hours ago, SMama said:

My daughter’s Social Welfare Institute (what they are called in China, as elderly sometimes reside as well) did not get the memo about proper nutrition.  At 16months old she was surviving on 3 eight ounce bottles of formula a day. She could not walk because her legs could not hold her 12 pound frame. 

You just broke my heart.  I feel the urge to send your baby some cookies, followed by some cake, and, and, and.  Would she like some milk with that?

I'm quite sure you've got it entirely handled, but as a human and as a mom it's hard to hear that and not want to spring into action.

[Snow8585]

Just for fun, i went to Rocky and Maggies website and the pee pads can be purchased online. Boxes of 10, etc. Comes to about $1 per pad.

[Kohola3]

18 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

I'm quite sure you've got it entirely handled, but as a human and as a mom it's hard to hear that and not want to spring into action.

Gosh, that was just heartbreaking. I'm not a mom but I still wanted to do something!  I am sure you have it all in hand but must feel awful when you remember what a horrible start she had in life. 

Jen, as a doctor, must also project her feelings on both Will and Zoey's time in the orphanage when dealing with them.  How could she not?  She would know how malnutrition could potentially cause lifelong issues.  I think people need to cut them some slack in the parenting department.

[LegalParrot81]

23 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

Will looked normal weight at adoption to me. Zoey was clearly underweight.  China is known to give good nurturing care to the orphans they adopt out.  The rest of the orphans are more hidden away and neglected.  Although Will was little, he was also the all important male.  I imagine if he were female he would have been sent to a more neglectful place. 

http://www.newdaycreations.com/foster/children/josiah10.htm

He may have looked normal weight, but he came to them the size of a newborn.  Malnourished and dehydrated.  Long lasting effects of that.....I don't know.

[RedheadZombie]

18 minutes ago, LegalParrot81 said:

http://www.newdaycreations.com/foster/children/josiah10.htm

He may have looked normal weight, but he came to them the size of a newborn.  Malnourished and dehydrated.  Long lasting effects of that.....I don't know.

Looks like he first went to one of the neglectful orphanages I mentioned - the ones with children China doesn't think it can make money off of, and are therefore neglected.  He can definitely have long lasting effects.  But, IMO, his behavior is part of what's holding him back.  I wonder if he's in a "normal" classroom with children his age.  I can't imagine he's much different in class than he is in a karate lesson.  He must demand a great deal of the teacher's attention, and I would be surprised if other parents didn't have an issue with it.  Even though he's going to an affluent school, I hope he qualifies for things that are provided for special needs public school kids.  I think his own classroom attendant would be helpful in keeping him focused and on track.  But I just don't see Will calmly sitting in class, quiet and attentive.  And if it's the camera that fires him up - another reason to get rid of the cameras.

Maybe Will gets some private tutoring in a quiet, calm environment.  

22 hours ago, SMama said:

My daughter’s Social Welfare Institute (what they are called in China, as elderly sometimes reside as well) did not get the memo about proper nutrition.  At 16months old she was surviving on 3 eight ounce bottles of formula a day. She could not walk because her legs could not hold her 12 pound frame. 

That sounds like purposeful neglect versus ignorance, and it's heartbreaking.

Edited October 6, 2017 by RedheadZombie
Words.

[BitterApple]

Even though Bill and Jen have never said so, I'd be surprised if Will is in a regular classroom. Back when my nephew was in second grade there was a kid in his class who should've been in Special Ed, but the parents threatened to sue the school if they didn't mainstream him. Unfortunately it ended up being a nightmare for everyone. If the kid didn't get his way he'd throw fits and fall out on the floor screaming and flailing while his aide tried to calm him down. The teacher had to constantly stop the lessons, which would make the other kids restless, and she's spend more time trying to get everyone refocused than she did actual teaching. I don't know what ended up happening, but I remember my sister said a lot of the parents were not happy with the situation.

One thing I think Will has in his favor is I don't think Bill and Jen are the kind of people who'd set their kid up to fail, the way this couple did in the example I mentioned. Or at least, I'm hoping that's the case.

Edited October 6, 2017 by BitterApple

[Emmeline]

22 hours ago, SMama said:

My daughter’s Social Welfare Institute (what they are called in China, as elderly sometimes reside as well) did not get the memo about proper nutrition.  At 16months old she was surviving on 3 eight ounce bottles of formula a day. She could not walk because her legs could not hold her 12 pound frame. 

I am so sorry to hear that.  My cousin also adopted a little girl from China and it was pretty much the same.  Thank god you found each other!

Edited October 6, 2017 by Emmeline

[Libby]

When they showed Will's science birthday party a while back, his classmates were at his party. The children appeared to be special needs to me. I'm not sure, but I think that Will is in the special needs program at school. At least I think that he was back then.

[ZoloftBlob]

Quote

I wonder if he's in a "normal" classroom with children his age.  I can't imagine he's much different in class than he is in a karate lesson.  He must demand a great deal of the teacher's attention, and I would be surprised if other parents didn't have an issue with it. 

Other parents don't get to decide which children deserve more attention or who's children should be in a 'normal' classroom. The way a child's appropriate place is decided is by the teacher, the child's parents and the people at the school who assist in setting up IEP plans.

Quote

Even though he's going to an affluent school, I hope he qualifies for things that are provided for special needs public school kids. 

If he is attending public school, his parents being affluent has little bearing on what he would qualify for if he is special needs. Put another way - if he needs an IEP, a specialized classroom etc etc, the public schools are required to provide what he needs regardless of whether his parents are poor or not. That his parents are affluent means he will likely have access to enriching activities and therapies but Bill and Jen don't have to pay for specialized assistance at the school simply because they might have more money on hand. The public school system is required to educate children even if they have problems and Will would have access to anything his school would normally provide a special needs student.

If the school he attends is private, that's a different story but a lot of private schools aren't so open with admission to kids with special needs.

Quote

I think his own classroom attendant would be helpful in keeping him focused and on track. 

In fairness, any child would benefit from having an individual attendant tending them but that's really the school's decision and excited and bratly and screamy as he is, Will really just seems bit immature and behind. I wouldn't be shocked if he had an IEP but I also wouldn't be surprised if he didn't. And kids who are special needs these days are pretty much always mainstreamed into regular classrooms. Whether I agree with the teaching philosophy behind it or not (and I am genuinely a bit on the fence), the reality is that its now considered much better for kids with special needs to be in a regular classroom, even if they are disruptive, because it helps kids learn empathy and kindness and the kids with special needs get the opportunity to see children modeling more acceptable behavior. 

Quote

Back when my nephew was in second grade there was a kid in his class who should've been in Special Ed, but the parents threatened to sue the school if they didn't mainstream him. Unfortunately it ended up being a nightmare for everyone. If the kid didn't get his way he'd throw fits and fall out on the floor screaming and flailing while his aide tried to calm him down. The teacher had to constantly stop the lessons, which would make the other kids restless, and she's spend more time trying to get everyone refocused than she did actual teaching. I don't know what ended up happening, but I remember my sister said a lot of the parents were not happy with the situation.

Unfortunately, the problem is that all children have to be educated and the reason parents sued schools - because I assure you what you're describing isn't isolated - is that back in the day, all the "special kids" were shuffled off to the special classroom where they were written off and ignored because they were deemed too damaged to learn. Basically they were locked away and rarely allowed to be seen with the "normal" students. Parents of kids with relatively minor problems were tired of their kids being warehoused, which is what led to the idea of mainstreaming. And it wasn't that long ago - I graduated high school in 1990 and my school had just in the last four years been forced to aggressively mainstream kids who were in the "dummy class"... and most of those did fine when we were allowed to get to know them and include them.  My point, such as it is, is that parents weren't suing to mainstream their children merely because they had unrealistic dreams of their child magically recovering from their problems, but because the alternative setting was being warehoused and ignored until the school could graduate them out.

[Sew Sumi]

I was also going to bring up the IEP, but chances are really high that Bill and Jen have their kids in private schools. And I'm sure they're top notch ones with SPED teachers who can help a kid like Will get up to speed. It may not be evident now, but if we check back in a couple of years, I imagine that he will be able to mainstream with his class. There could also be LD's, but I won't speculate on that. I doubt Bill and Jen would admit anything unless they think what they can convey can help people. Yes, I'm a bit cynical becasue they have the resources and have given the audience the picture of a "perfect" family: all the amenities, private lessons, etc. But when you look a little closer, maybe they overcompensated and missed something, not so much with Zoe, who I think is adapting wonderfully, but definitely with Will. I've worked in K/1 (no IEPS, Catholic school), and even though we knew one kid was a big problem (and he was bigger than me at age 7), nothing could be done except talk to the parent in charge who was unable to discipline her child enough for him to even care about school. His father? He was in jail. He ripped a kid off a jungle gym, dislocating his shoulder. I wasn't an attendant there at the time, but no adult was close enough to stop him (or big enough...this kid was already probably 120 pounds). 

In a public school, this kid would have had an IEP. Now, whether the mother could control the boy would have been another story. If you have to work 40+ hours to put food on the table, and there is no other support, even the best IEP isn't going to help that much. 

Bill and Jen have the luxury of Bill's schedule to tackle the contents of an IEP for Will, if he's in a public school. I just think they have him shielded in a private school, and at this point, it seems to be to his detriment. 

[floridamom]

Sew Sumi: What are "IEPs" and "LDs"?

[ZoloftBlob]

IEP  - Individualized Educational Plan

LD - Learning Disability

[mythoughtis]

I don’t think Will needs a special ed classroom. He’s not low IQ or developmentally disabled. He might have an IEP because of his immaturity, speech issues, and possible attention deficit or hyperactivity.  All of that can be handled in a regular classroom plus a speech teacher.   Karate might actually help because of the discipline and structure that is usually taught with it.  He’s not a bad kid, he just needs to be firmly handled/ and his parents 1.need to stop acting as if he doesn’t need to be reprimanded , and 2.  Stop thinking he is mature enough to bring along to activities way above his maturity level. 

Edited October 7, 2017 by mythoughtis

[Sew Sumi]

I don't think he's SPED either, but there could be something we're missing like ADHD. That's the only reason I brought it up. That's not generally diagnosed until the age he is now, so if Will has had any diagnoses, they've been done by now. As someone noted, some of the footage is from something like 18 months ago. Maybe he's matured since then. I don't watch Jen's IG enough to really get a handle on how the kids are now since she's one of those "picture perfect" type of posters. 

[Me from ME]

I haven't seen all of the seasons but have been watching the older episodes as they have been aired. I was curious to see Will and Zoey's behavior when they were first brought home.

My parents adopted a 3 year old orphan from Korea. The actual child was a bait and switch by the adoption agency but that's another story. Suffice it to say that our family was prepared for one child and the one we received had a different name and might have had psychological problems. At first she could only tolerate eating white rice or she would have skin lesions. She had known her mother so she totally rejected my mother and was prone to episodes of screaming.  Even when she accepted my mother she had major tantrums and, as an adult her behavior has made it apparent that she might have a character disorder.

I recently saw the dinner party that Jen gave shortly after Will got there. He was appropriately unsocial for such a young kid, having hearing deficits with a group of adults to whom he had just been introduced. Yet, what puzzled me was that he sat quietly at the dinner table and appeared to eat and behave quite well. I don't know if it was clever editing or, if he still had some residual manners left over from the foster home.

[Snow8585]

I learned something new this episode when they said that both kids needed ear tubes. I recall Will having surgery for them but I did not know about Zoey. Their speech therapist seems really good. I wonder how they are doing with all new doctors in Florida.

[HoboClayton]

I saw a little bit of this and I am genuinely curious. Is this behavior normal for age 7 now?? Same with that little Josie Duggar girl. I have way too many videos of me and my peers at that age, and remember it well. Is 7 the new 2 or something? I am aware of the situation both of these children came from, so I'm honestly just curious as to whether or not this is typical or not. Obviously I am not a child person, and am not around them often. I would have pegged Will for age 4 at the most. That little Zoey is a firecracker, and they are both adorable and seem very happy, which is of course, all that matters. 

[ZoloftBlob]

Personally I think Will is a little delayed but I am not an expert. I also think Josie Duggar is a little delayed. That said, yes, 7 is basically the new 2. Parenting is much more smothering and controlling these days. Kids aren't encouraged to strive for independence and parents who do things like let their kids walk to school or play without observation are deemed abusive neglectful monsters. Likewise, denying a child anything is "awful" now. I recently had a lengthy argument with a sibling because I had to incur a significant expense because their child at age twelve could not be left alone in their home safely for four to five hours in the evening because it was too dangerous. But sibling also couldn't skip the part time job because the money from the part time job funds the child's extra curricular activities and it wasn't fair to ask the child to "give up everything". (The child to be fair seems like a nice enough kid but totally knows how to manipulate) For the record, I was the bad guy for daring to suggest that a 12 year old was old enough to not set the house on fire or open the door to raping murderers. Did I mention I was a latchkey kid at 6 who spent hours daily alone in a house?

Jen and Bill are too permissive when on camera, and the kids probably know this. And TLC prefers excited brats to calm children and always has so it's always going to be the kids acting challenging that airs but yes, a certain amount of immaturity and lack of discipline is now the norm and parents who buck that trend tend to hear about it.

[BitterApple]

17 minutes ago, HoboClayton said:

I saw a little bit of this and I am genuinely curious. Is this behavior normal for age 7 now?? Same with that little Josie Duggar girl. I have way too many videos of me and my peers at that age, and remember it well. Is 7 the new 2 or something?

In general, I think discipline is lax these days, but I'm also thinking this sort of behavior is the exception, not the rule. If you noticed Will's karate class, the other kids were able to stand in line and wait patiently, as well as follow the instructor without having to be constantly hand-held. In poor Josie's case, she's the product of two nut-job parents who think all you have to do is "pray away" the problems. In contrast, my late father grew up in rural Canada and he and his brother used to go hunting and trapping alone when they were only several years older than Will. 

I think Will is a good kid, and probably has some delays that can't be helped, but I also think he could benefit greatly from having expectation levels raised in regards to his behavior. I think a lot of his antics get laughed off by his parents because he's charming and cute. 

[HoboClayton]

Thanks for the answers. Will is absolutely adorable. I do understand more of Josie's issues, because of her awful "parents."  I suppose I knew the answer to my question, as absolutely horrifying it is to me. I do wonder why there has been such an extreme shift in parenting styles, in what just seems like a generation? Anyway, too off topic I know.. At least I can catch this show from time to time and not be left with a rotting pit in my stomach knowing how little of a future the children have, like when I catch the Duggar klan. Will and Zoey are the definition of cute, and I want to squeeze their little heads and act like a toddler with them for days. Zoey is an old soul. You can see it in her eyes. All the best to them.

[silverspoons]

I'm sure Jen and Bill go through different struggles then most parents. I have a son that had a severe speech delay and developmental issues. As parent it is so exciting to see your child start to speak or make a friend or take an interest in something. I had a hard time saying no when my son said his first words at 3.5 years or when he showed an interest (or course I was scouring yard sales for pokemon and scooby doo I didnt have the money to go buy out a toy store). Compared to where Will and Zoey started they have come a far way. You can see that Will showed an interest in cars and trucks and Jen and Bill redecorate his room, take him to special trip to the fire station, buy RC cars and really ran with the interest. Zoey shows an interest in tea parties and she doesn't just get a tea set but a 5 figure tea  party for her 4th birthday at a hotel, high tea tasting in England. While it is great to cultivate your child's interest , Jen and Bill seem so excited to see their kids go from not talking to having personalities they may go overboard.

I was clearly told and saw age 7 or 2nd grade is the turning point in making sure behaviors changed so that a child can learn in a normal classroom. Kindergarten lots of kids goof off or fool around in class, but first grade the kids start to settle down, sit at desks part of the day, have small math and language arts lessons. By second grade kids need to be able to sit at a desk or work in groups and other kids start to get annoyed or distracted by the class clowns or immature kids. My husband and I decided to move to 2nd and 3rd grade for our son since our district just did not have good resources. . It was very hard financially but it was worth it. We found an experienced teacher that just knew how to get even the most active, silly immature and even kids that had some pretty severe IEP to sit, learn and have good classroom behavior. My son at 7 was a wiggler, couldn't sit still, didn't listen well, disorganized and made jokes and came back at age 9 as a kid that you could get him to get out of his seat and he was so respectful. While my son will always have learning issues, he does not disrupt a class and has manners.

My husband and I searched 14 states to move to and I did not find one state that did not push for inclusion. I would think will has to be in a normal classroom. Even very severe kids are now included. Since my daughter has experience with her brother she is an aide and bring the severe kids into the normal classrooms and helps them while doing her own work.  When Jen felt sad about kids calling will a baby, I bet it had to be because he sucks his thumb, is carried and some of his behaviors. There are 3 little people at my kids school and they are super popular, I haven't heard any comments because they are short. My daughter had a friend that would sneak sucking her thumb in class and she got teased.

 

Jen and Bill have more resources and choices then many others. They lived in two large cities that have many options for schools and can afford any school option or medical intervention. They are obviously recognizing some issues like the speech therapy and paying for extra help. Looking at Zoey she would not qualify for speech since she has a vocabulary and understanding, so Jen and Bill are paying out of pocket for speech so if they are doing that maybe they are doing other stuff we don't see. Also maybe the move is good for them? Bill talks about his childhood at Will age as being pretty normal so maybe around their family that also has kids it will help. I think that the best thing would be not to film the family or just do a few specials a year. I know many love the kids but filming is so stressful. I have seen TLC and other networks film and even been an extra and it was so stressful and SO many retakes for "reality", Im an adult and I was stressed and mad and my kids hated it (they were so excited to be on TV and then saw what it took and never want to be on again).  There is no way the cameras especially those talking heads are not at least a little bit contributing to some of the behaviors.

[Libby]

2 hours ago, BitterApple said:

In general, I think discipline is lax these days, but I'm also thinking this sort of behavior is the exception, not the rule. If you noticed Will's karate class, the other kids were able to stand in line and wait patiently, as well as follow the instructor without having to be constantly hand-held. In poor Josie's case, she's the product of two nut-job parents who think all you have to do is "pray away" the problems. In contrast, my late father grew up in rural Canada and he and his brother used to go hunting and trapping alone when they were only several years older than Will. 

I think Will is a good kid, and probably has some delays that can't be helped, but I also think he could benefit greatly from having expectation levels raised in regards to his behavior. I think a lot of his antics get laughed off by his parents because he's charming and cute. 

I agree. The new style of parenting may be overprotective and lax, but this parenting style doesn't cause children to be 2 to 3 years behind.

I hope that Will is capable of catching up and that irreversible damage wasn't done by his horrendous beginning.

ETA: I know that Jen and Bill don't want to hurt Will's feelings, but they are the only people who can help him to move along in a loving way.

They need to tell him outright that he is called a baby because he sucks his thumb and runs around and screams. If the people who love you the most can't tell you, who can? I will give it to Bill and Jen, this Will situation must be very hard.

Edited October 7, 2017 by Libby

[woodscommaelle]

Silver/gray dress > blue x 100! Hope she chooses that one. It was really pretty on her. 

[ZoloftBlob]

Point - I am sure that if Will is being teased by classmates over the thumbsucking, that he's heard directly from classmates that sucking one's thumb is for babies. 

[Libby]

42 minutes ago, ZoloftBlob said:

Point - I am sure that if Will is being teased by classmates over the thumbsucking, that he's heard directly from classmates that sucking one's thumb is for babies. 

True, but he will trust it more if it comes from his parents who love him. They should explain nicely to him how he acts younger than other kids. Then they should point it out and remind him that he will be teased when he displays these behaviors at home.

As an example, when grandma was holding Will and he was sucking his thumb and acting two years old, the parents should have told her to put him down. They should have told Will that 6 year olds don't get picked up and cuddled like little babies because they are tired. Jen and Bill have to start helping Will to move along. All the teachers, training, and everything else won't work if the parents don't try to teach Will to act age appropriate at home.

Edited October 8, 2017 by Libby

[AnnieBeez]

I taught kinder for years. I did have kids who sucked their thumbs or fingers when they were tired. Only the adults that came into my classroom had an issue with it. His classmates might think he's a baby because he's small. Re: behavior  I had plenty of kids who were little stinkers with their parents but were fine with me. That said ALL kids need to know what's expected and have consistency. Feeling sorry for Will is not doing him any favors. 

[BW Manilowe]

21 hours ago, Snow8585 said:

I learned something new this episode when they said that both kids needed ear tubes. I recall Will having surgery for them but I did not know about Zoey. Their speech therapist seems really good. I wonder how they are doing with all new doctors in Florida.

Since Jen has mentioned in previous eps that her parents were willing to take her to out of town doctors, if it would get her the best care for her "medical complexities", as she tends to call them, & we've seen that she & Bill are apparently also willing to travel, & have traveled, with at least Will to get certain procedures done by the best doctors available (he sees the same doctors/goes to the same children's hospital in Delaware, I think it is, for his dwarfism that Jen went to as a child & I'm pretty sure that's where he also had the surgery to place his ear tubes & to remove his tonsils & adenoids; I can't remember for sure if we've seen Zoey with the same doctors yet or not), it's entirely possible they might've kept at least some of their Texas doctors for now, if they thought they were the best to treat whatever the issue is.  I mean, both as a patient with a form of dwarfism & as a doctor herself, Jen would know where the best doctors to help her children (& Bill, probably, as he went to a doctor/hospital in NYC to have his back surgery done after they returned from adopting Zoey in India) would be &, since it appears they can afford it, she & Bill would likely be willing to give their kids the best care they can get for their conditions; especially since they're used to that standard of care when it comes to their own health.

Not for nothing, but I also grew up with "medical complexities" & parents who were both in the medical/nursing field. If they felt it was better I, in particular (as opposed to me & my "healthy" younger brother), went to a doctor or hospital out of town to treat something (or if my local family doctor/pediatrician recommended it), or if the condition could only be treated out of town, then that's where I went for treatment.

[SongbirdHollow]

On October 4, 2017 at 11:43 PM, camom said:

That's one of the very few things he does that is typical of a 6 or 7 year old boy.  Otherwise, he acts much, much younger than he really is.

Nitpick -- the speech therapist was teaching Zoey "Can I have a pen?"  instead of "May I have a pen?"  It's just as easy to teach proper grammar, but once they've learned it incorrectly it's harder to fix.

I finally had a chance to watch this episode after reading your post so I paid particular attention to this scene. I totally agree that proper grammar should be taught but I think the therapist was using a particular method with Zoey in which pictures were used to help her construct the sentence. In this case, the sentence was "Can I have" and there was a tin can, an eye, and a "half" of something as the prompts. I don't know what she could have used as a picture for "May" instead for a child of that age. Then, later in the show, she was explaining to Bill that Zoey was truncating her sentences but when she slows down by looking at the pictures she does fine. So I trust the therapist knew what she was doing (she seemed great!)

I'll take Zoey using "can" over Will's recent obnoxious behavior any day! That kid is getting on my last nerve.

Edited October 8, 2017 by SongbirdHollow
Zoey not Zoe even tho spellcheck disagrees

[Kohola3]

29 minutes ago, SongbirdHollow said:

So I trust the therapist knew what she was doing (she seemed great!)

Absolutely.  Speech therapy is aimed at pronunciation at that age.  The grammar can come in school.

[RemoteControlFreak]

Why am I not surprised that the Klein-Arnold family's dog pees all over their house?

They can't control their kids and apparently can't train their dogs appropriately either.

Their houses must completely reek.  Good luck to them selling the Houston house unless they completely eliminated the residual odors.

Don't see a huge market for Bill's fake fire-hydrant pee pads.

[Tikichick]

On 10/7/2017 at 4:39 PM, silverspoons said:

I'm sure Jen and Bill go through different struggles then most parents. I have a son that had a severe speech delay and developmental issues. As parent it is so exciting to see your child start to speak or make a friend or take an interest in something. I had a hard time saying no when my son said his first words at 3.5 years or when he showed an interest (or course I was scouring yard sales for pokemon and scooby doo I didnt have the money to go buy out a toy store). Compared to where Will and Zoey started they have come a far way. You can see that Will showed an interest in cars and trucks and Jen and Bill redecorate his room, take him to special trip to the fire station, buy RC cars and really ran with the interest. Zoey shows an interest in tea parties and she doesn't just get a tea set but a 5 figure tea  party for her 4th birthday at a hotel, high tea tasting in England. While it is great to cultivate your child's interest , Jen and Bill seem so excited to see their kids go from not talking to having personalities they may go overboard.

Jen and Bill have more resources and choices then many others. They lived in two large cities that have many options for schools and can afford any school option or medical intervention. They are obviously recognizing some issues like the speech therapy and paying for extra help. Looking at Zoey she would not qualify for speech since she has a vocabulary and understanding, so Jen and Bill are paying out of pocket for speech so if they are doing that maybe they are doing other stuff we don't see. Also maybe the move is good for them? Bill talks about his childhood at Will age as being pretty normal so maybe around their family that also has kids it will help. I think that the best thing would be not to film the family or just do a few specials a year. I know many love the kids but filming is so stressful. I have seen TLC and other networks film and even been an extra and it was so stressful and SO many retakes for "reality", Im an adult and I was stressed and mad and my kids hated it (they were so excited to be on TV and then saw what it took and never want to be on again).  There is no way the cameras especially those talking heads are not at least a little bit contributing to some of the behaviors.

To be fair, some of the special, big-dollar items you are talking about also happened to be featured storylines on the television series.  Maybe some of the overboard indulgence of the kids' interests is merely fodder for the show.

[WillowT]

2 hours ago, RemoteControlFreak said:

Why am I not surprised that the Klein-Arnold family's dog pees all over their house?

They can't control their kids and apparently can't train their dogs appropriately either.

Their houses must completely reek.  Good luck to them selling the Houston house unless they completely eliminated the residual odors.

Don't see a huge market for Bill's fake fire-hydrant pee pads.

This explains all the couches they've had.

[Absolom]

4 hours ago, RemoteControlFreak said:

Don't see a huge market for Bill's fake fire-hydrant pee pads.

Yeah, I don't need them or any pee pads.  Most of us train the dog to go outside. 

[Madtown]

You know, it just dawned on me that the last child I watched is 7 and in 2nd grade. I don't think I thought about it because she is far beyond Will in behavior, school and maturity. I believe that Will is behind in these things and I would expect it the way he was probably treated in the orphanage. I also agree with those that said both he and Zoey have come a long way from when they were first adopted, Zoey especially. Since Bill and Jen have the means to put them in the right schools with the right help, I tend to believe they are. I can't say what their life is like off camera, but what we seem to see the most is Will running around like a maniac and not listening much to either Bill or Jen and both of them repeatedly asking him to do something. Maybe off camera, they scold more and use more of a stern voice to them, who knows. I know there were many times I had to get to stern with a child I watched for something they did. Sometimes I found what they did/said funny, but knew it wasn't appropriate. I would scold and then run in another room where they couldn't see me and laugh. I tend to believe that Will will someday grow out of it, I like to hope we'll see both he and Zoey when they are much older and what they have become. I don't doubt that either child is smart and yes at sometimes down right hilarious. I do love this show and have from the beginning. I just grew up in a different time where we were punished so sometimes it grates on me when I see them getting away with something they shouldn't.

[Tikichick]

12 hours ago, Madtown said:

You know, it just dawned on me that the last child I watched is 7 and in 2nd grade. I don't think I thought about it because she is far beyond Will in behavior, school and maturity. I believe that Will is behind in these things and I would expect it the way he was probably treated in the orphanage. I also agree with those that said both he and Zoey have come a long way from when they were first adopted, Zoey especially. Since Bill and Jen have the means to put them in the right schools with the right help, I tend to believe they are. I can't say what their life is like off camera, but what we seem to see the most is Will running around like a maniac and not listening much to either Bill or Jen and both of them repeatedly asking him to do something. Maybe off camera, they scold more and use more of a stern voice to them, who knows. I know there were many times I had to get to stern with a child I watched for something they did. Sometimes I found what they did/said funny, but knew it wasn't appropriate. I would scold and then run in another room where they couldn't see me and laugh. I tend to believe that Will will someday grow out of it, I like to hope we'll see both he and Zoey when they are much older and what they have become. I don't doubt that either child is smart and yes at sometimes down right hilarious. I do love this show and have from the beginning. I just grew up in a different time where we were punished so sometimes it grates on me when I see them getting away with something they shouldn't.

We also only see the moments in which they're making a TV show.  I can easily see where they are hesitant to put the heavylifting parenting moments on screen because it can easily be  misread as them being overbearing with discipline with the kids.  If things are a bit more relaxed discipline wise while the cameras are on, the kids no doubt have picked up on it.  The cameras also mean a crew of people focusing a lot of attention on the kids -- and no doubt some contrived, slow moving and boring disruptions.  Although it feels that way to us, the cameras (and vicariously us, the audience) are not in fact flies on the wall.  We have no way of knowing what the kids are like on a random Thursday afternoon after school -- or the type of structure and discipline Jen and Bill might use to deal with misbehavior off camera. 

[lookeyloo]

yes agree, @Tikichick - these are "scripted reality shows".  If we wanted to see a real life period of time, someone would set up cameras and record everything.  

[Madtown]

39 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

We also only see the moments in which they're making a TV show.  I can easily see where they are hesitant to put the heavylifting parenting moments on screen because it can easily be  misread as them being overbearing with discipline with the kids.  If things are a bit more relaxed discipline wise while the cameras are on, the kids no doubt have picked up on it.  The cameras also mean a crew of people focusing a lot of attention on the kids -- and no doubt some contrived, slow moving and boring disruptions.  Although it feels that way to us, the cameras (and vicariously us, the audience) are not in fact flies on the wall.  We have no way of knowing what the kids are like on a random Thursday afternoon after school -- or the type of structure and discipline Jen and Bill might use to deal with misbehavior off camera. 

Exactly what I was saying. We don't know what they edit out or how they are off camera. I often wonder when they are running around not listening, then the camera cuts and it's another scene, if they turn them off and they get scolded..lol They are adorable children and I love watching them and listening to them talk, I just want to yell sometimes, "stop running and listen to your mother/father!" LOL!

[BW Manilowe]

I do remember, a couple of instances where Jen gave Will a "time out" on screen. I think they were both while he was still relatively young.

Jen gave Will a "time out" onscreen when he was painting a picture, either for Bill or they decided to give it to him when it was done, soon after they brought him home from China as I remember. Jen told him it was time to stop painting; Will didn't want to & he somehow ended up hitting Jen because of it. She gave him the "time out" so he'd hopefully learn he wasn't supposed to hit her since she was his Mom.

The second time I remember Jen punishing Will onscreen was, I think, when he knew more English than after he arrived, & so was a little older. He said someone or something was stupid & Jen gave him a "time out", or maybe another form of punishment since he seemed to be old enough to know more English than when he arrived in Houston/the US. He got punished for that because they're, or at least Jen apparently is, trying to keep the kids from using words like that because they are or can be used in derogatory ways/ways she/they don't/doesn't want the kids to learn to use them.

[SongbirdHollow]

16 hours ago, Absolom said:

Yeah, I don't need them or any pee pads.  Most of us train the dog to go outside. 

I sincerely hope you never have to deal with an incontinent dog. For those of us who do pee pads are a godsend. 

There is definitely a market for them, and I think the little hydrant for male dogs is clever. 

[BitterApple]

I'm inclined to believe their behavior isn't that much different off camera. One of the biggest things I notice is neither Will nor Zoe listens when their parents try to get their attention or tell them to do something. Bill and Jen have to repeat themselves five times, then count to three and then plead some more until one of the kids finally turns around. If the kids are used to minding their parents, responding to their names would be automatic. 

I don't expect Bill or Jen to scream or yell or use Draconian discipline measures while filming a national TV show, but I don't get the impression they're particularly strict in their off camera days either. The kids are clearly in charge here, not the parents.

[Absolom]

11 minutes ago, SongbirdHollow said:

I sincerely hope you never have to deal with an incontinent dog. For those of us who do pee pads are a godsend. 

Been there, done that.  That's not what drove Bill to design the pad, though.  They have a dog who was trained to a pad because apparently the apartment made it too tough to train the dog to outside.  This is designed for a small niche market.

[SongbirdHollow]

4 minutes ago, Absolom said:

Been there, done that.  That's not what drove Bill to design the pad, though.  They have a dog who was trained to a pad because apparently the apartment made it too tough to train the dog to outside.  This is designed for a small niche market.

Perhaps larger than you think. From a market research site:

Factoring in growth of the elderly pet population, the increase in the number of rescue animals, and the “small dog movement” that has gained traction among apartment-dwellers and seniors alike, Packaged Facts forecasts the $3.5 billion pet litter, clean-up, and odor-control market to reach nearly $4 billion by 2020.

 

Bill is a fairly astute businessman. He researched pretty thoroughly before starting Rocky and Maggie's and I have to admit I thought he'd fail. Is his invention the best thing ever? No, but he saw a need (male dogs missing the mark) and came up with something unique. 

[Tikichick]

2 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I'm inclined to believe their behavior isn't that much different off camera. One of the biggest things I notice is neither Will nor Zoe listens when their parents try to get their attention or tell them to do something. Bill and Jen have to repeat themselves five times, then count to three and then plead some more until one of the kids finally turns around. If the kids are used to minding their parents, responding to their names would be automatic. 

I don't expect Bill or Jen to scream or yell or use Draconian discipline measures while filming a national TV show, but I don't get the impression they're particularly strict in their off camera days either. The kids are clearly in charge here, not the parents.

Possibly true.  It's also entirely likely that the kids have figured out, aha, the cameras are on, mom and dad will just keep telling me to stop it, they don't do anything about it when the cameras are on.   It's not as if children don't intuit abilities to exploit situations to their advantage.  They are still on the young end of the ability to grasp the idea there will be consequences later and therefore maintaining more control in the moment with that idea in their minds.  

I don't expect them to yell and scream either.  I'm merely suggesting that it's not easy to do some of that early training and discipline with an audience right there over your shoulder without an inevitable chorus erupting about whatever discipline is deployed being either too stern, too weak, simply incorrect, etc.    Truthfully, I'm not really thinking filming is beneficial for the kids in many ways at this point -- largely because I think it adds a lot more activity to a very busy family's schedule.  I don't say that as a criticism of Bill and Jen's choices either, as I'm mindful they may well be considering financial and medical implications for their family that aren't obvious to me as a stranger.  Yes, seems like they've kind of got it made with a multimillion dollar home, her career, his business, the amount of travel they undertake, etc.  Knowing they are a family of four with some extraordinary medical needs that I don't begin to understand the complexities of, maybe they're doing this to build a nest egg should medical costs begin to impact them down the road.  I don't know them.  I'm certain they're not perfect people, but there has to be a reasonable amount of decency in them to have gone to the lengths they did to adopt these children and seemingly go to great lengths to make sure that they are healthy, happy and learning.  I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until I see good reason not to.             

[BW Manilowe]

I probably shouldn't say this, because it'll probably sound like I'm snarking & I'm honestly not. I think Zoey dressing as Minnie Mouse for the most recent Halloween I think we've seen--also the show where Bill thought Zoey had a crush on her pediatrician & she ends up having to get not just a shot, which she seems to be scared of (I've had a lot of them myself & I don't like 'em either, although I've been in the hospital 2 or 3 times since 2014 &, strangely enough, I think I've finally gotten a little more comfortable with/used to shots & blood draws over those hospitalizations, though I still don't like 'em more than I like 'em), but she needed a shot in each arm &  each leg--is maybe sort of appropriate because there are times, including in this ep where I think her voice is high-pitched, or whatever, enough that she actually seems to sound like Minnie Mouse does in the cartoons or wherever we've heard the character speak. Just my opinion.

[humbleopinion]

Spoiler alert!

In the tease for next week's episode Jen wore the..(drum roll)...short silver dress when she and Bill MC'ed the Washington Adoption Event.

Chloe Dao's storefront is about a half block from Rocky and Maggie's.

In a past episode you see Bill and Zoey walking a few minutes from R+M's to Chloe's to decide on the sea foam green dress for the wedding vow renewal.

Jen's baptismal dress was impeccably fitted to her.

The whole Klein-Arnold family benefit from Jen and Bill taking the time and $$ to get things altered well.

Camera ready in real life, they always look great.

Bet the TLC producers were just as happy as the family that Rocky did his part to close the circle on the episode.

Zoey verbally praising him and rewarding him with the couple pieces of kibble was adorable.

Edited October 11, 2017 by humbleopinion

[BW Manilowe]

On 10/11/2017 at 9:18 AM, humbleopinion said:

Spoiler alert!

In the tease for next week's episode Jen wore the..(drum roll)...short silver dress when she and Bill MC'ed the Washington Adoption Event.

Chloe Dao's storefront is about a half block from Rocky and Maggie's.

In a past episode you see Bill and Zoey walking a few minutes from R+M's to Chloe's to decide on the sea foam green dress for the wedding vow renewal.

Jen's baptismal dress was impeccably fitted to her.

The whole Klein-Arnold family benefit from Jen and Bill taking the time and $$ to get things altered well.

Camera ready in real life, they always look great.

Bet the TLC producers were just as happy as the family that Rocky did his part to close the circle on the episode.

Zoey verbally praising him and rewarding him with the couple pieces of kibble was adorable.

Jen's vow renewal dress was seafoam green? I thought Chloe was gonna make it in Jen's favorite color, & I'm pretty sure Bill told Chloe Jen's favorite color was Tiffany blue (the color Tiffany & Co. jewelry stores use for their merchandise packaging & shopping bags). Unless I'm losing my mind--which is possible--I swear Bill said something about Tiffany blue in that ep anyway.

Edited October 12, 2017 by BW Manilowe
To change a word.

[humbleopinion]

You are right, BWM.

Sea foam green was the color of the house.

Thanks for the catch.

[RedheadZombie]

On ‎10‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 10:25 AM, Bellalisa said:

This dog normally pees on everything in the house? 

I wonder why they expect him to pee on this pad. I would have taken it outside.  Usually when they first get outside they pee on something right away. 

They had it in the bedroom?  Why not the garage? I don't get it.

Male dogs "mark" in the sense that their bladder is not full, they don't really have to go but they pee or mark on a spot to show other dogs and the world they were there. A dog normally doesn't mark in his own home- unless another dog shows up, and not the dog they normally live with. It's strange that after all these years Rocky would be marking all over their house. Or when they go out they know he is going to pee inside? Terrible!

I don't think many dogs live long in a Texan garage - at least non air-conditioned them.  No offense to those who do, but I would never leave my dog in the garage.  I don't see the point of having one if they don't live in the house with me.  And there are poisonous things in the garage.

On ‎10‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 11:47 AM, BitterApple said:

I noticed that as well. It's pretty obvious how far behind Will is developmentally just by watching him in a class with kids his own age. He has poor impulse control and doesn't listen unless an adult is on top of him making him focus. The constant screeching and running all over the place is something you'd expect from a kid four years younger. I think Zoe seems to be catching up much more quickly. 

I did have a little giggle when Bill explains how karate coincides with how he and Jen are raising the kids, and mentions self-confidence and especially understanding respect for other people . . . .  Will strolls in, seemingly late, dragging his belt on the ground (as the other children are sitting quietly, belts in place) spinning it around like a toy, until an instructor runs up to help him put on the belt.  

And this is in no way meant as an insult to Will's abilities, but he's on his second belt already?  What is required to gain this belt?  He doesn't even wear his belt during the class - it's again in his hand and used as a toy.  It seems Will is as coddled in this class as he is at home.  I have the sneaking suspicion that this occurs at his school, too.  And while there is absolutely nothing wrong with helping children with delays or physical limitations, but no one seems to correct him.   He takes his belt off and plays, and then someone has to get down on their knees again and replace the belt.  All distracting from the rest of the kids.  He's completely adorable, of course, but enabling his behavior is not helping him.

[ZoloftBlob]

Quote

And this is in no way meant as an insult to Will's abilities, but he's on his second belt already?  What is required to gain this belt? 

Very little, really. I used to teach karate. He's not being coddled in order to be on his second belt. Little kid karate, up until you get to the higher ranked belts, is pretty much mild exercise, coordination improvement, and your parents paying for classes. And believe me, his behavior isn't unusual for a karate class. But trust me - this isn't Will being coddled, this is that karate for kids that young makes its money on belt tests and tip tests, and it's only the higher ranks that have a chance of failing a belt test. 

[janey99]

17 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

 

And this is in no way meant as an insult to Will's abilities, but he's on his second belt already? 

If I remember correctly, Will had on a white belt with a yellow stripe.  Many MA schools have "little tiger" classes for young children in which the usual belts are split into as many as nine additional ranks.  So instead of going from white to yellow belt (which is a whole grade), they will go from white to white w yellow stripe, to white w orange stripe, to white w green stripe, etc., with multiple mini tests until they finally get to "full yellow belt." Some schools do this through white, yellow and orange belt.  So Will's white belt with a yellow stripe indicates that he is the first step through his white belt on the way to yellow, not that he is a yellow belt.

<-- son is a TKD black belt