GH History Lessons: Because History is Always Repeating Itself

[Cobalt Stargazer]

 She conveniently forgets that her mother started EVERYTHING that went down between Sonny, Michael, and herself. 

 

Actually...

 

It was really Carly who originated this mess back in the day, since if she hadn't handed Michael over to Sonny out of some pathological belief that he was good father material, we wouldn't be reaping the fruit from the poisoned tree now. Only in Carly's sick little mind would a mobster be a better father than....well, anyone really, but as the years passed, the narrative twisted and contorted to blame A.J. for everything, and say what you like about him, Cujo and Scummy were the ones who made him so desperate to have any kind of relationship with Michael. The only thing that makes Carly any different than Ava is that she doesn't actually have the ovaries to kill anyone, and by Port Charles logic that makes Ava the superior one. Particularly since, per the narrative, we're probably supposed to be cheering for Sonny the murderer and rooting against non-murdering Kaka (I can't entirely like her, but she hasn't killed anyone and being against Sonny in any capacity is a strong lure) to "get" Avery. But this conversation wouldn't even be taking place if Carly hadn't planted the acorn by doing absolutely everything she could to cut A.J. out of his son's life because she's a lying, psychotic bitch, and the roots of that oak tree are what's brought us to this.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Cobalt Stargazer

[Lillybee]

Sonny shoots Robin when going after Jax and again has an issue finding a towel for his victim.

 

[Ambrosefolly]

I think one of my favorite things about Robin is when someone shoots her and she basically shrugs her shoulders, unless thats where the wound is. She doesn't act like she is half dying like Sonny does everytime he is shot.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Ambrosefolly

[Harmony233]

I think one of my favorite things about Robin is when someone shoots her and she basically shrugs her shoulders, unless thats were the wound is. She doesn't act like she is half dying like Sonny does everytime he is shot.

LMAO sad thing is even as a child when something tramtic happened she didn't act as childish as sonny does as an adult.

 

THat said AM I the only ones sick and tired of someone always getting shot?Geeze theres other ways to create drama.For example remeber when stone gotshot and Robin was putting her hand on the wound and it was right after he found out he had Aids that was more dramtic than any shoot out in the past 15 years lol.

[Tiger]

Its even more boring under Ron because everyone gets shot in the shoulder. In the last three years, Lucas, Liz, Sonny, Nathan, Ava and others I can't remember right now have been shot in the shoulder.

[Lillybee]

At least Julian got shot in the leg.

[Lillybee]

This is one of my favorite GH romantic montages ever. I loved that JJ sang the MyGirl part.  I am still annoyed that Liz pretended that everything was fine when it really wasn't

 

.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9tDAVR2RGM

[SlovakPrincess]

Yes, the Qs did some toxic, completely messed up things over the years. And Michael probably would have ended up with weird emotional issues growing up with them.

But. At least half of his weird issues would STILL have been because his Carly is a self-absorbed freak who is constantly stirring the pot and trying to control every situation.

And he still would have been way less messed up than he has been because of Sonny.

At least the Q dysfunction was interesting and varied. Sonny does the same damn things over and over and over. (Usually, shooting people). It's mind numbing.

[Cattitude]

Okay I've spent a couple of days looking at background on the Qs, AJ and Michael's custody. I did try to find the meathook incident without success but I don't know what year that supposedly happened, I did find out when AJ gave up custody of Michael to Carly and Sonny just used old fashioned blackmail no worse than the Qs themselves have done repeatedly. Plus Sonny did it to get Carly and HIS baby(that Carly was pregnant with) free. His goal wasn't to take Michael from AJ that was just what he had to do b/c the Qs had blackmailed Carly into having to be "one of them" to have access to her child.

I've also learned that AJ and Sonny had issues before Michael was an issue and AJ did things just as Sonny did. If anything poor AJ is poor AJ b/c of the way his own family emotionally abused him for years. I feel his alcoholism was due to his family's treatment of him for years. In the beginning the reason Carly didn't want Michael around AJ was his alcoholism and the danger that put Michael in and I really can't blame her.

I feel bad for AJ b/c of how is family tell him over and over we love you son but you are a terrible screw-up and disappointment. I don't feel bad for what Sonny did to him b/c he was capable of doing the same thing. He had forced Carly into the situation that Sonny had to get her out of. Carly tried to be compassionate to Lila as Michael's family and AJ kept ruining it for them. But instead of helping AJ they kept making him feel terrible. When Carly fell down the stair it was an accident but the way AJ acted was very unattractive. Carly was trying to be nice to Lila and again AJ ruined what little goodwill she had towards Michael's Q family.

If instead of being all or nothing AJ would have tried to compromise with Carly and just had visitation with Michael I think Carly might have worked with him, but instead he had to have full custody of Michael or nothing so in a way AJ's own Q stuborness of having to be the winner of Michael poisoned what relationship he could have had with Michael. Then over time Sonny grew to love Michael and wanted Michael as his son, which only made AJ and Sonny's fued much more deadly.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iA9b5s7t4eA

 

I also found this great clip of Sonny and Brenda that explained why Sonny hates "the law"(Deke) so much and why he became a mobster and isn't sorry that life was his lifeline as a young kid.

 

Again I will say I'm not trying to paint Sonny as a good person. He is a mobster that does terrible things, but the very people who Michael is so proudly claiming as his family now were far more culpable in making AJ be the poor pitiable sole he was than Sonny.

 

[SlovakPrincess]

To add a bit of context, AJs alcoholism started because of family issues. However, Carly really contributed to AJs issues in a lot of ways:

- befriending and sleeping with AJ at a time when he was sober ... then making AJ think he'd fallen off the wagon and blacked out so her infidelity to Tony wouldn't be found out. (Basically, gas lighting the guy).

- passing AJs kid off as Tonys, then Jason's. Not because of AJ but because she wanted to be with Tony and then because she knew her crazy antics (her lying and schemes since coming to PC) would cause the Qs to seek custody of Michael.

- causing an even bigger rift between AJ and Jason when she lied to the Qs, claiming Jason had been violent and scary to her ... thus worming her way into the Qs home.

- marrying AJ when her plan was always to screw him over in the end (he was planning to screw her over, too, to be fair). But both parties are responsible for not just saying "let's do joint custody like sane, normal people" it wasn't all on AJ.

- sleeping with Sonny while married to AJ because of her jealousy over Jason and Liz.

- teaming up with Sonny to screw AJ over and cut him off from Michael.

- claiming AJ pushed her down the stairs when that's not what happened.

AJ certainly was no saint, and the Qs did give him a lot of insecurity issues. But Carly didn't get trapped by AJ into anything, her own manipulation a got her into this mess. I can't speak to what happened before AJs first death, because I wasn't watching at that time. But Sonny ultimately murdered him, which kinda trumps everything.

I do get that Sonny had reasons for turning out the way he did and some sympathetic aspects. A long time ago. But I still choose the Qs over him any day of the week.

[testardo]

Man, Brenda and Jason were little pieces of crap in high school/freshman year of college, weren't they? I get that they didn't know about the molestation and were weirded out that Karen started stripping. But none of that excuses them ever calling her a slut or making comments about her mother.

And don't get me started on Brenda's planting naked pics of Karen all over high school. In the flashbacks in that scene, she throws it in Karen's face and still pretends she didn't do it!

I never forgave Brenda for that stunt, actually.

she ended up right where , both of them actually in sonny's bed.

[UYI]

Actually, I think AJ was drunk when he and Carly slept together and conceived Michael. Didn't he forget he had even slept with her afterwards?

 

But yes, he was sober when they became friends.
 

 

 

 

Edited February 14, 2015 by UYI

[Cobalt Stargazer]

If instead of being all or nothing AJ would have tried to compromise with Carly and just had visitation with Michael I think Carly might have worked with him,

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbMy-hPLWtU

 

Ahem.

 

A.J. "Can't we find some middle ground, Sonny?"

 

Sonny: "Why would I want to do that when I've got what I need to get everything I want?"

 

BTW, this is also the clip where Sonny tells off-screen Jason that Carly is pregnant with his kid, which I consider another betrayal.

[Cattitude]

Again I didn't say SONNY and AJ would compromise I said Carly and AJ. Things between AJ and Sonny were never good even before Michael and the whole point of the conversation was Sonny using his "skills" to keep the upper hand. He knew he had AJ by the short hairs and it would show weakness for him to compromise in that moment, but the later clips of Carly show her trying to give the Qs some access to Michael's life and AJ kept messing that good will up instead of cultivating it.

 

Sonny and AJ had a long standing fued surrounding many things Michael was just one of them. AJ did things to harass and enrage Sonny just as much as Sonny did things to AJ. Of course as a mob boss Sonny was just a better "bad guy" than AJ but AJ is not some blameless victim in the entire fued.

 

SlovakPrincess you make great points about Carly and I agree with you in the end Sonny is responsible for AJ's death, but the backstory leading to Sonny's motivation to kill AJ isn't cut and dried. AJ and Sonny very much have had a blood fued for years that has more to it than just Michael.

[TeeVee329]

Carly show her trying to give the Qs some access to Michael's life

 

She was always making the Quartermaines beg for scraps and be grateful for it, which is why they kiss Michael's ass now whenever he gives them the time of day.

 

I'll never forget, after years of disavowing Michael's connection to the Quartermaines, these scenes of Carly showing up on their doorstep after Alan died and Tracy tearing into her about keeping Alan's grandson away from him his entire life and how it was too late to ease her guilt.

 

Edited February 14, 2015 by TeeVee329

[Harmony233]

Go tracy it always pissed me off how carly acted like she was better  than the Q's bitch please. Another thing I hated was how ason would show up one a member died AJ,Alan,ect You didn't treat them well when they was alive so take your self righteous butt out of there is my opinon.

[Cattitude]

TeeVee329 I'm not sure if that clip was supposed to make the Qs look sympathetic, but it really made Carly look good. She seemed to be concerned for her child and putting herself in a room full of people who despised her for Michael's well being. I will say other than Tracy the rest of the Qs overall looked better, but again I never have yet to see a big family Q scene where they aren't all bickering and jockeying for power among themselves. Overall that level of emotional turmoil doesn't make think well of them in general.

 

As the early scenes showed when Michael was very young  Carly didn't seem to be making the Qs beg for anything, but I'm sure as time went by and her relationship with AJ got worse I wouldn't be surprised if she did.

[UYI]

She was always making the Quartermaines beg for scraps and be grateful for it, which is why they kiss Michael's ass now whenever he gives them the time of day.

 

I'll never forget, after years of disavowing Michael's connection to the Quartermaines, these scenes of Carly showing up on their doorstep after Alan died and Tracy tearing into her about keeping Alan's grandson away from him his entire life and how it was too late to ease her guilt.

 

 

That was great! And cool, it aired on my 18th birthday. :D

 

Jason tells Monica that Emily died, and Skye tells Edward:

 

 

[TeeVee329]

That clip was meant to show that Carly is a hypocrite.  If Carly did everything in her power to make sure Michael had no connection or relationship to Alan when Alan was alive, why was it suddenly so vital to have him included once Alan was dead?

 

She was indeed trying to excuse her own guilt and I'm thrilled Tracy called her on it.

 

 I never have yet to see a big family Q scene where they aren't all bickering 

 

Yes, because Sonny and Carly neeever fought during their marriages.  I actually recall one scene, where Carly told Sonny that he emotionally abused her.

 

ETA...found this transcript as part of this post: http://serialdrama.typepad.com/serial_drama/2010/06/carly-and-sonny-caught-in-actually-being-watchable-shocker.html

 

Carly: Can't you--can't you still hear us? I mean, I can. I can hear the yelling, and things breaking. I can hear you calling me a faithless whore, screaming at the top of your lings that I'm worthless. I've never seen anyone get as angry as you, and your rage, Sonny. Your rage is overwhelming. You zero in on what's weak in someone and you hammer away. You dismantle it, piece by piece, and I look back and I'm horrified at myself. Horrified that I put up with it, that I rationalized it, and that I participated in it. But that was my illness. I stayed with you and I let it happen over and over again, the vicious cycle, and you know what, Sonny? It's called abuse.

 

Edited February 14, 2015 by TeeVee329

[Cattitude]

UYI Those were great though I hope never to see SBu's hair look that awful again. eekk!

 

Glad to see Edward in his old age showed some remorse for all the bad things he did in life.

 

Maybe when Sonny is 80 he'll be that remorseful too.

 

TeeVee329 I just don't see it that way. Of her own admission she never thought Alan would died so young. She expected Michael to have more time to make his own choice and when he didn't she didn't want to deprive him of saying goodbye if he wanted to, which he did so she braved the Qs FOR Michael.

 

I also have no problem with couples fighting with eachother, it is when they bring their children and grandchildren into it and belittle and make them feel they have to one up eachother by tearing the others down that it really makes me uncomfortable. Tracy is truely her father's child.

 

The Qs being toxic doesn't mean to say that CarSon aren't also toxic themselves.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Cattitude

[UYI]

Then I promise I won't post the clips of him when Liz told Lucky Jake was Jason's son. GROSS. 

[TeeVee329]

The Qs being toxic doesn't mean to say that CarSon aren't also toxic themselves.

 

But again, you seem to be saying that the toxicity of growing up the Sonny/Carly/Jason way is less damaging than growing up the Quartermaine way and I, respectfully, completely disagree.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I also have no problem with couples fighting with eachother, it is when they bring their children and grandchildren into it and belittle and make them feel they have to one up eachother by tearing the others down that it really makes me uncomfortable. Tracy is truely her father's child.

 

You mean like Michael and Morgan? I suppose it wasn't intentional that Carly and Sonny stuck Michael up on a pedestal, but whether it was intentional or not, Morgan is so much the A.J. to Michael's Jason that its utterly ridic.

[TeeVee329]

And Sonny and Carly used Michael and Morgan as leverage and as weapons against each other constantly.

[ch1]

All I'm taking from that scene with Carly and Tracy is - shut up Emily.  Just shut.up.  

[Cattitude]

But again, you seem to be saying that the toxicity of growing up the Sonny/Carly/Jason way is less damaging than growing up the Quartermaine way and I, respectfully, completely disagree.

 

That is fine, but I don't know that is was better per say I just don't see it as worse. I think if Michael grew up with the Qs he'd be screwed up in a different sort of way. If he is as much like AJ as it seems then he might have been a terrible alcoholic who knows. For all his mistakes Sonny has taught his children to think for themselves and be confident in their own decisions. The Qs were all about "group think". You had to go with their will or your self worth would be zapped.

 

From my limited knowlegde of legacy children of Liz, Nik, Lucky, Robin, Maxie, Lulu etc. Jason and AJ seemed to have been the most screwed up of them all. So from my POV being a Q isn't something wonderful. YMMV.

[Tiger]

If Michael has grown up with the Q's he wouldn't have been shot in the head, missed years of his life, killed a woman, went to prison, raped in prison, and then had to kill again.

Ill take the Q "group think" over all that, thank you very much.

[ulkis]

All I'm taking from that scene with Carly and Tracy is - shut up Emily.  Just shut.up.  

 

Horrible actress, I still get chills of annoyance. 

[dubbel zout]

AJ and Sonny very much have had a blood fued for years that has more to it than just Michael.

 

Michael certainly became the fulcrum. 

 

She expected Michael to have more time to make his own choice

 

How noble of her to let her son decide if he wants to be a part of the family she did everything to keep him away from and to slam every chance she got. Sorry, Carly wins no brownie points from me.

Edited February 14, 2015 by dubbel zout

[TeeVee329]

For all his mistakes Sonny has taught his children to think for themselves and be confident in their own decisions.

 

...that doesn't sound like Morgan.  Or Kristina.  

 

And when Michael thought for himself and decided he wanted to get to know AJ, Sonny and Carly both raised holy hell about it.

Edited February 14, 2015 by TeeVee329

[ulkis]

Ethan is miles and leaps and bounds better than every young actor besides CD, RC, and DZ. The accent was just stupid. But at least he wasn't a Corinthos.

 

I'd actually say he was better than Carnes and much better than Chad Duell.

 

but dubbel zout is right, he was pointless. Maybe Carlivati would have found something for him (and by found something I mean "love interest #3 for Kristen Alderson" let's face it) but under Guza he was literally sleeping in alleyways a lot of the time. To this day I have no idea where Ethan was staying most of the time, at least we know Anna is at the MC even if she doesn't actually have a house.

[Jenniferbug]

When the choice is between a dysfunctional family of doctors and businessmen, or a dysfunctional family of mobsters with never ending half-siblings materializing regularly...I take dysfunctional doctors and businessmen every time.

[LegalParrot81]

In honor of Valentine's Day.

 

I loved this little family.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y-q8Opg6t4#t=571

[TeeVee329]

....but but Luke was miserable in that house!

[bannana]

who is cop!killa?

[OnceSane]

who is cop!killa?

Courtney Matthews aka SWMNBN (She Who Must Not Be Named).

[cheyz]

History question: I thought when Nikolas' paternity was in question, his status as prince was also. Didn't he have to be legitimate? Now he and what'shername weren't married when Spencer was born, so how can Spencer be the heir?

[Ambrosefolly]

There is no guarantee that AJ would have allowed the Qs to be that involved with Michael. He was living on his own, sober because he saw the Qs as a trigger. When Robin told him about Michael, he told her the only reason he returned to ELQ because he felt there was nothing else to fill the void left by drinking. I never saw the scenes and they aren't on Youtube (unfortunately), but when his sham marriage to Courtney stopped being a sham when he realized that she truly did love him, he left the Q mansion to live in poverty with her. After he faked his and Michael's deaths, he seemed pretty okay with having sandwiches and riding speedboats with him, never mind what it did to his family. 

 

Qs vs Sonny. We can discuss all day who is more toxic, doesn't matter.  AJ was Michael's biological father who wanted to actively be involved in his life. He was willingly to make changes (like give up drinking) and get a job to support his son and he should have that opportunity. If Carly only lied about the paternity instead of interfering with his hard won sobriety, AJ wouldn't have threaten her with taking Michael. So no matter who was worse or played dirtier, its Carly's fault because she completely betrayed AJ's trust in the worst way. 

[bannana]

Thanks, and which cop did she kill?  

[Tiger]

Thanks, and which cop did she kill?

Brian Beck. She shot him in the back during the hotel fire and framed Zander for the murder, a crime for he was later killed for. So she was technically responsible for two murders.

[nilyank]

 

Brian Beck. She shot him in the back during the hotel fire and framed Zander for the murder, a crime for he was later killed for. So she was technically responsible for two murders.

 

Zander was not an innocent victim in that scenario. He was working for Faith and was expecting a drug shipment for her. He told her that he was going to kill Jason and during the shootout the cops were involved. Of course, Courtney was an idiot and thought she could save Jason but ended up shooting Brian in the back. Faith claimed that Zander was the shooter in order to save herself from being arrested. Brian who had the biggest crush on Courtney covered for her by not naming her as his shooter. He eventually died from his injuries. Zander would later kill another person in the hotel and then set fire to the boiler room to cover up his crime. He caused the Port Charles Hotel to burn down to the ground (it would later be bought by Carly and Jax to be rebuilt as the MetroCourt). Zander was assumed to have died in th fire but he was not. It was eventually discovered that he was alive and after being tipped off by Elizabeth, the police rushed to get Zander who was still suspected of killing a cop and killing another man. Zander having failed in getting Emily to agree to be with him (after threatening and blackmailing her), got himself shot by the cops by going for his gun;

[LeftPhalange]

 

Of course, Courtney was an idiot and thought she could save Jason but ended up shooting Brian in the back.

 

Was she trying to shoot Zander but missed and hit Brian instead?

[Ambrosefolly]

Was she trying to shoot Zander but missed and hit Brian instead?

Zander wasn't even there. He left for some reason. Up until the second he died, he had no idea who framed him.

[TeeVee329]

Tiffany is aghast when Cheryl leaves custody of Lucas to Bobbie and Tony:

 

 

It's sad that Cheryl talks about wanting Lucas to remember her.  I'm still bummed Julian and Lucas never talked about her.

[sometimesfan]

Tiffany is aghast when Cheryl leaves custody of Lucas to Bobbie and Tony:

 

 

It's sad that Cheryl talks about wanting Lucas to remember her.  I'm still bummed Julian and Lucas never talked about her.

 

I watched that whole storyline dating back to Cheryl with Robert and her fear of Julian, but the one thing that was very clear was that Julian and Cheryl had been in love with each other when they were younger, and he still was in love with her. Now that history is ignored.

 

I liked Cheryl and I liked her with Robert at the time. I have no doubt that Lucas was supposed to have been fathered by Robert. That was the story they were telling, then I think the writers changed, it was quickly wrapped up, Cheryl was out, and she and Julian had reunited long enough for him to have fathered her baby.  

[UYI]

Here are the scenes with Zander's death:

 

[backhometome]

I loved AT Emily/Zander. I hated NL from the start. 

[Harmony233]

I wanted Robert to be the father.I also wanted Tiff to win custody.

 

I also loved AT Emily.To be honest I was on a break from the show when NL took over and when i came back i 2006.Emily was dating sonny and that right there didn't win her any points with me.

[Tiger]

I loved AT Emily/Zander. I hated NL from the start.

Maybe this belongs in 'unpopular opinions', but I thought NL had amazing chemistry with CB and I thought they still had it during that scene where Rebecca gets on a plane and sits down next to a Zander look-a-like.

I thought she also had chemistry with GV and even NP and MB. But watching she and TCh on screen together was just awful. They didn't just not have chemistry, they had anti-chemistry IMHO.

Edited February 15, 2015 by Tiger

[WendyCR72]

I loved AT Emily/Zander. I hated NL from the start. 

 

LOVED Original Zander/Emily. So much. As much as I didn't really take to NL as Emily, I did sort of like Rebecca meeting Aaron the Zander lookalike on the plane and hinting at something there since the inferior (to me!) Nik/Emily destroyed Zander to happen.