S02.E01: A Father's Advice

[debraran]

Some good theories from Time magazine. We covered a lot here :

http://time.com/4961096/this-is-us-jack-fan-theories/

 

I still tend to believe in a big twist and words are used to deflect the truth. Kate telling Kevin things was probably always that way, Randall wasn't as close. I would think their Mom could also tell him things but at that age, siblings can be closer. What a tear-jerker that will be with Kate and Kevin though.

Edited September 29, 2017 by debraran

[possibilities]

I didn't think the kids were upset enough for Kate to be referring to telling Kevin dad is dead. She could be referring to telling him about the house fire, or some third tragedy we don't even know about yet. But if they just found out Jack was dead, she'd be sobbing and incoherent, especially since she feels guilty about it.  The dignified weeping is way too mild for that level of trauma. Even Miguel; he's getting them pillows so they can go to sleep. He's not comforting them that much, or suggesting they will sit together while they wait for Rebecca to join them. He's all business. I realize people grieve in different ways, but we've seen Kate upset and she's not the strong silent type.

I think they want us to think things are one thing so they can shock us with it being something else. They use that device too much, in my opinion, to the point that I'm thrown out of the story and not really believing anything is what it seems to be. But I think there's actual justification to see the last few scenes as inconclusive for real, and not just because I'm highly suspicious of everything they do in general.

[Court]

I'm late to the party but...

I love Beth. Her dry humor speaks to me. While I didn't love Randall ignoring her very obvious feelings about the adoption, I did like how they worked the argument out. 

I still hate Toby. He'll have a moment where I'm all hmm, he's not so bad and then he ruins it by being a selfish add. His relation at the dinner is exactly why she didn't tell you. He made it about himself, not her. 

I don't think Jack died in the fire either. 

[Enigma X]

My show is back.

I am not a Toby fan. In fact, I hate Toby, but I see both his and Kevin's sides. Also, Kevin was right about the first outfit; it was too much. I like Beth too. I guess I don't understand why she came this far (adoption agency) if she was not sold on the whole adoption thing. Milo did play the drunk just right for me. I sobbed at the end, but I am a sucker. I am not sure what to think about that fire.  I was bothered that the big 3 did not at least call each other and wish each other a happy birthday though.

[Indy]

18 minutes ago, Court said:

 

I still hate Toby. He'll have a moment where I'm all hmm, he's not so bad and then he ruins it by being a selfish add. His relation at the dinner is exactly why she didn't tell you. He made it about himself, not her. 

 

Me too. He'll do something to make me think he's changed and that I no longer hate him, but then he returns to obnoxious self-centered douch bag form and I remember why I hate him. I really want Kate to dump his ass

[Court]

17 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

  I was bothered that the big 3 did not at least call each other and wish each other a happy birthday though.

Me too. I really wish there were more scenes of the Big 3 together. 

[TaylorTalk]

On September 26, 2017 at 7:09 PM, Katy M said:

Only if it turns out that Randall and Kevin set the fire on purpose.

Man oh man, I can't deal with Little House on the Prarie again.
 

[sasha206]

On 9/27/2017 at 1:11 AM, Cardie said:

He seemed to imply that Randall would like to get it on with their Mom. That was really weird and disturbing.

Also weird and disturbing was Toby's comment to Kate -- does she want to sit in his lap (Kevin's?

[CelticBlackCat]

Kevin barging in using his key was wrong.  Kevin also needs to grow up a little but he is more lovable than Toby/Tody.

[sasha206]

8 hours ago, ChicksDigScars said:

But when Rebecca pulls up to the house with Jack's personal effects, there is smoke in the air,  and three first responders in the front yard. The fire JUST happened.  My guess is that Kevin went off on his date and everything was fine. Something happened while he was gone.  Jack, Rebecca, Randall and Kate are at home, the Steelers game is on. Something happens.  Stove fire, perhaps. They all run outside to safety, which explains why Rebecca, Kate and Randall are not smoke covered. Kate freaks because something is still in the house (the mystery dog?) Jack runs in to get him for Kate.  Something happens while he's in there. Explosion, ceiling collapses, trapped by flames, overcome by smoke....something.  Dog runs around from the back yard. He was never actually in the house, which means that Kate sent her father back in for nothing. Life long guilt ensues. Eating for comfort increases.  

Excellent hypothesis!

I think Jack running into save the dog makes sense, esp. with Kate's guilt.  And of course, Jack dies a hero!  

[debraran]

8 hours ago, possibilities said:

I didn't think the kids were upset enough for Kate to be referring to telling Kevin dad is dead. She could be referring to telling him about the house fire, or some third tragedy we don't even know about yet. But if they just found out Jack was dead, she'd be sobbing and incoherent, especially since she feels guilty about it.  The dignified weeping is way too mild for that level of trauma. Even Miguel; he's getting them pillows so they can go to sleep. He's not comforting them that much, or suggesting they will sit together while they wait for Rebecca to join them. He's all business. I realize people grieve in different ways, but we've seen Kate upset and she's not the strong silent type.

I think they want us to think things are one thing so they can shock us with it being something else. They use that device too much, in my opinion, to the point that I'm thrown out of the story and not really believing anything is what it seems to be. But I think there's actual justification to see the last few scenes as inconclusive for real, and not just because I'm highly suspicious of everything they do in general.

I agree, Miguel telling them he'd get them pillows and not crying, etc. made me feel, that was him taking control after the fire. I've seen that in action with neighbors or friends. It just felt "off" for Jack's death. I wonder if the girl was at the house too when it caught on fire? That by itself is devastating. So many things gone. I know they didn't mention it in season one for the impact in season two, but that is a huge deal and might explain why they omitted any scenes from his death to her marriage. Did she move in and they just got close? The kids stayed there too? Did Miguel have children?

I also was reminded in the Time article about Randall's hallucination of Jack and him while Jack was doing construction. Might be nothing, but that was in his mind and the steno book I don't feel is just there. I feel they put props for reasons. The laminated flag, looks like a pin, might be nothing or maybe he was wearing it?

 

Nice interview with character who plays Miguel:

One question

What about in terms of the character himself? Viewers know he has children, for example. Do you know much about them?

Miguel’s kids are about five years older than Jack and Rebecca’s kids. I can’t give away too many things because stuff is coming out in episodes to come, but that’s why Miguel and Shelly will sometimes give advice to Jack and Rebecca on raising kids. I can’t really comment on whether the kids know each other or are friends in their adult years. But he does have kids with Shelly. Good-looking kids too! Gorgeous kids. (Laughs.)

Kids that haven’t been cast yet, right?

They haven’t. But in my mind they’re absolutely good-looking.

All the actors say, the road to liking him with Rebecca will take all of season 2 and maybe 3 but he will be redeemed. He didn't do anything bad, he just isn't Jack

Edited September 29, 2017 by debraran

[Crazydoxielady]

Some weight related obvious issues. Teenage Kate has lost weight since last season, and adult Kate has gained.  When she said she was down two sizes I had to do a double take.

I think this episode was full of speeches that were supposed to evoke heavy feelings and lots of director/writer attempts at manipulation. Every scene can't be gut wrenching with emotionally charged feelings, outpourings of rationales into the reason "why" they feel the way they do, and no filler....I really loved last season, but I didn't cry once this episode and hoping they get their bearings for season two.  The speeches and rants as every character just goes on and on as the other character listens in rapt attention is not congruent with real life and real dialogue.  Lets get it together This Is Us.  Hoping this isn't a classic case of Sophomore failure after a spectacular first season. 

[OtterMommy]

42 minutes ago, Crazydoxielady said:

Some weight related obvious issues. Teenage Kate has lost weight since last season, and adult Kate has gained.  When she said she was down two sizes I had to do a double take.

I ran across some IG pictures of the actress playing teenaged Kate and either she (IRL) really knows how to dress in a flattering way or she's wearing extra padding for this show.  As for Metz, I don't think she's gained weight, she may have even lost a little, but I think "two sizes" is a bit hard to buy.

Quote

I think this episode was full of speeches that were supposed to evoke heavy feelings and lots of director/writer attempts at manipulation. Every scene can't be gut wrenching with emotionally charged feelings, outpourings of rationales into the reason "why" they feel the way they do, and no filler....I really loved last season, but I didn't cry once this episode and hoping they get their bearings for season two.  The speeches and rants as every character just goes on and on as the other character listens in rapt attention is not congruent with real life and real dialogue.  Lets get it together This Is Us.  Hoping this isn't a classic case of Sophomore failure after a spectacular first season.

 

Yup, yup. yup.  I think there are two things going on here...one is the constant manipulation.  Look, I get that--from time to time--a show will become manipulative to get a response from the viewers to get them to invest in a story line.  However, this show seems to take out "from time to time" and "to get a response from the viewers to get them to invest in a story line."  Instead, it seems like it is just "how can we make them cry this week?"  And they don't need to...I cried at the end of the series premiere and sobbed during Memphis (although I watched that ep the week my mom was dying, so there may have been other forces at play), but I've been left cold by everything else.  The thing is, I don't need to cry while watching a show to think it is a good show--unless I'm repeatedly told that I AM GOING TO SOB MY EYES OUT!  Then, when I don't, I feel let down by the show.  If they had cut out the pre-ep crying talk, I probably would have enjoyed many of the episodes more than I did.

And then there is the case of the never ending mystery of Jack's death.  It was intriguing for a while, about 6 episodes, and now I don't care.  At the end of the day, how Jack dies doesn't change the fact that Jack is dead.  Whether he died in a fire, or a car accident, or by an infected ingrown toenail, it doesn't matter (probably.  I mean, they keep saying it matters, but if it were so important, they would have told us by now).  I'm beyond ready to move beyond the mystery of "how Jack died" and start dealing with these characters' issues in the present day.

[qtpye]

On Wednesday, September 27, 2017 at 1:16 AM, OtterMommy said:

I have to say that I was underwhelmed with that.  There were a few things--I liked, but mostly it just seemed either same old/same old or actually a step down from last season.

As for Jack and Rebecca--I was thinking while watching this that I'm past caring how Jack dies.  And even when it looks like we got some sort of answer, I was..."whatever."  There was a time when I felt I needed to know, but the show waited too long IMO.  You know, a friend of mine--who is ALL IN with this show--had this complaint about last season: the penultimate episode felt like a season finale and the season finale felt like it should have been the 2nd season premiere.  After watching this, I'd say that *this* episode felt more like the 1st season finale for me.

Oh, and Jack...don't ever sleep on a hide-a-bed without a sheet.  There is just something gross about that.

I also had an issue with Beth and Randall...their 2nd season personas just didn't seem to connect to their 1st season personas to me.  Yes, I know that they went through a major life event and people are changed by that, but it just seemed like more.  I think that they wanted to shift the dynamic between the two this season and just had a hard time with it--hopefully it will be smoother from here on out.  Also, catty observation: Beth's current hairstyle makes her look like Prince.

I'm still really not feeling Kevin and Sophie.  I know that they only had one brief scene and one skype scene together, but I just can't believe that coupling.  I also firmly believe that it was a late-in-the-game decision to give Kevin some long-lost soulmate and now they're trying to shove it down our throat and it just isn't working for me.

What IS working for me, oddly enough, is the Kate-Kevin-Toby dynamic.  I was kind of off Toby in the latter part of last season, but I understand his frustration with Kevin and, in that whole thing, I find myself coming down on his side...which is sort of freaking me out.  I also felt what we saw of Kate and Toby's relationship in this episode actually seemed almost healthy (and I realize that may change completely next week).  I also really liked the producer or whatever it was making sure Kate knew that she didn't get the job because of her ability, not her appearance.  She really wasn't that good--and I thought that as she was singing, before I even heard the not-good-enough back-up singer.  Also, the Kate hiding behind her weight thing, while realistic, is also getting old and maybe that will shake it up a bit.

Finally, the bicoastal nature of the show isn't working for me.  I realize that, in regards to the story, it was kind of ridiculous that everyone was in the NY/NJ/PA area.  But having Kate, Kevin, and Toby in LA and Randall, Beth, and Rebecca on the East Coast makes me feel like I'm watching 2 different shows.

Call me coldhearted, but I was not moved by the last scene.  No tears for me....  

 

On Wednesday, September 27, 2017 at 1:54 AM, biakbiak said:

I have the same Pianos Daude poster in my living room for 15 years that Kate and Toby have, perhaps I should redecorate.

I was with Toby for part of it, it's not just Kate's house anymore Kevin shouldn't be just walking in without a knock. The do need to compromise on what their boundaries are and how to make it work for them all. However, the three kids seemed to have inherited Jack's inability to compromise. I will be curious to see how K/K interacted when he was married to Sophie.  I do like Toby and Kevin's scenes better than either of them with Kate.

Rebecca saying that Jack was as close to perfect as they come made me want to vomit. She should have gone to therapy or Al Anon.

I am annoyed that Kevin has tlo have a grand romance.  A lot of men and women decide to stay single and there is nothing wrong with that.  Kevin's soul mate is probably Kate and I do not mean in an incestual type of way.  I love the actor who plays Kevin, but he just does not have much chemistry with the actress who plays Sophie.

I actualy wonder if Randall ever felt left out as a kid, because Kevin and Kate are so tight?

Teenage Kevin scares me in a way that goofy lovable adult Kevin does not.  Teenage Kate is great and teenage Randall sort of channels Randall's personality.  It seems like teenage Kevin  is nothing more then "good looking blonde kid" and seems least like his adult self.

Randall is truly Jack's child.  The man makes major life decisions and expects his wife to fall into line.

I think Jack is a loving father and husband, but he is slightly codependent on his family.  We found out that he was a bit of a loser who was not above commiting petty crimes before his love for Rebecca transformed him. I think the fact Rebecca was showing some independence by doing something for herself with the singing, played on his insecurities and that caused him to drink.

I was very touched by the ending, untill the cast started giving interviews.  I'm sorry....I do not need to figure out the Rube Goldberg machine of tragedy that leads to Jack's death.

Edited September 29, 2017 by qtpye

[OtterMommy]

Just now, qtpye said:

I actualy wonder if Randall ever felt left out as a kid, because Kevin and Kate are so tight?

I would be surprised if he didn't--not only because Kevin and Kate are so tight, but also because he was sent to a different school and had a different social group (and it looks like he didn't feel he fit in with that group).  This might also explain why it seems, based on what we've seen so far, that Randall is much closer to Rebecca than Kevin and Kate are.

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

I think "two sizes" is a bit hard to buy.

"Two sizes" seemed like weird dialog, too.  Is she going out and purchasing new clothes between 10X and 8X?  I feel like at that size everything off the rack is elastic and baggy so it sizes down with you quite a bit, and it's probably all various iterations of 'tent like'.  Of course, in reality she has pros custom tailoring her outfits but would Kate the character?  And if she did would she refer to rack sizes?  

[ShadowFacts]

38 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

And then there is the case of the never ending mystery of Jack's death.  It was intriguing for a while, about 6 episodes, and now I don't care.  At the end of the day, how Jack dies doesn't change the fact that Jack is dead.  Whether he died in a fire, or a car accident, or by an infected ingrown toenail, it doesn't matter (probably.  I mean, they keep saying it matters, but if it were so important, they would have told us by now).  I'm beyond ready to move beyond the mystery of "how Jack died" and start dealing with these characters' issues in the present day.

I mostly agree, though I will say that I think there is a difference between a somewhat 'natural' death, and a violent or preventable one, that reverberates for survivors for many years, or forever.  They might be going that way and are just going at it too slowly for my taste.  It should have been revealed already as far as I'm concerned.

27 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I am annoyed that Kevin has tlo have a grand romance.  A lot of men and women decide to stay single and there is nothing wrong with that.  Kevin's soul mate is probably Kate and I do not mean in an incestual type of way.  I love the actor who plays Kevin, but he just does not have much chemistry with the actress who plays Sophie.

That annoys me, too.  There is nothing wrong with singlehood, and a person's soulmate can be a parent, friend, even their pet.  But this is given short shrift in fiction.  Our culture makes too big a deal of romantic love, imo, thus leaving out people who don't check off all the boxes on finding that one, special person. 

[jjj]

13 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I mostly agree, though I will say that I think there is a difference between a somewhat 'natural' death, and a violent or preventable one, that reverberates for survivors for many years, or forever.  They might be going that way and are just going at it too slowly for my taste.  It should have been revealed already as far as I'm concerned. 

I compared it to "How to Get Away with Murder" a few pages back, and the more I hear about how it will be revealed (bit by bit, explaining what we saw in the final minute of this first episode), the more convinced I am that they decided to follow the formula of that show.  For those who do not watch it, a group of brief scenes are shown at the very beginning of each season, and the meaning of little details is gradually revealed over the season -- that is another show I binge-watch after it is finished.  For "This is Us," the slow reveal will be very distracting to the other plots they try to continue -- now we are set up to wait for Kevin to break his leg, because that is part of the countdown -- same with the arrival of the dog and red-headed friend.  I prefer to enjoy the plots without waiting for one crumb of "reveal" to be offered in each episode.  And I am feeling like the "Us" is just not very strong in the current-day plotlines.  Other posters are right that it feels like two different shows on two coasts. 

Also, did Kevin's play close after one or two performances, or did he walk out on it?  We never really got a resolution to that.  And he was the producer, so it is not like he could just walk away and the understudy could take over.  He had a lot of money to recoup by continuing performances. 

[SueB]

Dissecting that final montage (kids, Kate, burnt house), I've come up with some thoughts.

First, there's a LOT of clues to future story plots in that montage.  I'm fairly certain the Jack died in the fire.  I think he physically got out of the house but died at the scene, likely smoke inhalation.  And Rebecca had to go down to the morgue or hospital and identify the body.  There IS a reason why the family is not all at a hospital crying.  Let me walk through the clues, what I think the implications are, and possible future story telling.

1. Rebecca in the car clues:

• Steeler's Jersey - It's football season, likely a Sunday, but fall, not winter (no coat, no snow). Plot implications is that it's been at least 7-8 months since he admitted his alcoholism. Math: Her tour happened the week after Valentines' Day.  If he died in Sept/Oct, that's 7-8 months.  Future storyline: Jack's rehab is going to be a big plot and they have plenty of time to cover it from "Get in the car." until his death. 
• Stone Face - Jack's dead and she's 'keeping it together'. She's in shock as well.
• Rebecca is alone - Means she went to identify the body and get his effects. She would NOT take the kids to that moment. She'd leave them with a friend.  She may have called to confirm what they were already told - that he was dead and that exacerbated the kids tears. Future storyline: Why was Jack at home and not wherever they were watching the game? Did two policeman show up at where they were and do that horrible 'knock on the door'? I think that's the likely scenario. Were they at Miguel's because Jack needed time to do some journaling and wanted to be home alone?     
• Jack's Belongings - Wallet, keys, watch, ring, and spiral notebook with a pen clipped on.  THIS is interesting.  The items aren't burned or wet, which means he physically got out of the building. But he TOOK the spiral notebook.  Future storyline: Of ALL the things to grab, he takes that notebook. Not photos.  I'm going to guess that this notebook was part of his rehab therapy.  This was his journal towards recovery.  I think that notebook will play a role in the future.  Either he said things in there that upset or helped Rebecca.  She does or does not share the journal with the kids.  Rich territoryThe notebook, is the most interesting clue. 

2. Miguel's house clues:

• Dog - Well, it looks like it belongs potentially to Kate or at least definitely the Pearsons.  It's possible it was with them wherever they were watching the game but more like it was provided by the people who did the notification.  See the next clue.  Future storyline: WHY did they get the dog. What does the dog do for the family dynamic? Was there some element of the dog care that resulted in Jack's death. 
• The PHOTO ALBUM - Did you see it?  I did on second viewing.  Randall is clutching a photo album.  I bet Jack got the photo album and the dog out and was (OMG, I JUST GOT IT... GOING BACK FOR SOMETHING OF KATE'S???).  First I thought about Randall's "birth" blanket -- didn't see that but that was a big deal in "The Best Washing Machine In the World".  And what about William's poems?  But it would be SOOOO Jack to try and save something for each of the kids.  Future storyline: Who keeps the photo album, what else did Jack rescue, was rescuing things part of why he died? Did he rescue something for Kate, something for Randall, and nothing for Kevin (because he couldn't get to the basement)?
• The Red-Haired Girl - Looks like she's a special friend of Randall's.  Sure, she could be one of Miguel's children but they are older.  I'm going to guess a girl from his school that he invited to the football watching event.  Very possibly a girlfriend. I'm glad he has someone in his life.  Future storyline: how did they meet, who is she, oh look, she's white, etc.. 
• "I'll get pillows" - They made a point of showing us this is his pull-out couch.  This was there to let us know he was not expecting them to be there until this happened.  Another indication that the fire had just happened. Future storyline: Not really... except the omni-present Miguel moving in on Rebecca
• Kate saying she has to tell Kevin - She's torn up, but she doesn't know the cause is possibly related to her. Future storyline: potential rift associated with Kevin not being with them when it happened? Note, it doensn't have to be logical for it to be an issue. 
• Kevin is not with them - Why?  Besides the obvious 'Sophie sexy times?'  Could it be that they were over at Miguel's and Kevin already didn't like the guy?  After his Oedipal snark about Randall, and the way he looked at Jack at the cafe table during the 'taking a moment' discussion, I think Kevin's carrying something around.  A concern for his Mom?  A concern for Kate (and thus protecting Rebecca/Jack?)?  IDK.  But Kevin's issues with other male people and his mother did NOT start after Jack's death.  There is something there.  Future storyline: I don't think it's Oedipal, he doesn't get enough of his mother's attention for that, but it's something.
• Kevin's cast - clearly it's been on for a while, it has a football on it, likely early football season/practice.  And it's off for the funeral.  I could buy him getting the cast off between Jack's death and funeral.  Which means we can start about a 6 week clock as soon as Kevin breaks his leg.  Because it takes 6 weeks for a femur to heal.  Future storyline: A coach was scouting him last year. DId the fight with Randall end his chance or was this a 'career-ending' injury?  How did he break it? Was it football or some other trauma?

3. Rebecca at the front of the house clues:

• Leaves on the ground - It's fall, not winter. Note, no Halloween decorations.  Early November?  Early October? Future storyline - none. 
• Gut-wrenching pain - this is first she's seen of the house. Future storyline - not explicitly
• The Fireman w/ night lighting - This JUST happened.  Rebecca would be able to smell it.  You don't have Fireman working a night shift to sort out the cause of the fire.  And he's pointing to Kate's room. Future storyline - not explicitly
• The Condition of the House - Well here's the tale.  Kate's room has a BIG hole through the roof. And something is falling down there.  And the fireman is pointing in that direction.  Looks like Kate's room is where the fire started (hence her guilt).  The master bedroom is also in REALLY bad shape.  There may have been a fireball in there.  The downstairs is burned up but the upstairs is in far worse shape.  Future storyline: what did Kate leave in there that caused a fire.  Kate's guilt over the fire.

Bottom Line for the TL;DR:  That montage was chock-full-o-clues.  You don't do that for just a house fire.  This is Jack's death.  And how he died, what caused the fire, how Miguel fits in later all starts at this moment. In many ways, the Pearson family "ended" in a sudden tragedy.  As the showrunners have said, there's the 'before' and 'after' this moment.  

Edited September 29, 2017 by SueB

[Katy M]

Is it possible we're overanalyzing?

19 minutes ago, SueB said:

Steeler's Jersey - It's football season, likely a Sunday, but fall, not winter (no coat, no snow). Plot implications is that it's been at least 7-8 months since he admitted his alcoholism. Math: Her tour happened the week after Valentines' Day.  If he died in Sept/Oct, that's 7-8 months.  Future storyline: Jack's rehab is going to be a big plot and they have plenty of time to cover it from "Get in the car." until his death. 

She was at most wearing a light jacket in the get in the car scene?  WAs that supposed to February?  

[SueB]

26 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Is it possible we're overanalyzing?

She was at most wearing a light jacket in the get in the car scene?  WAs that supposed to February?  

I went back and checked. In 'Jack Pearson's Son' he says he's making Valentines Day reservations because "She's leaving next week and I want to take her out before she goes on tour. Then it turns out to be a really bad Valentine's Day dinner.

[MV713]

On ‎9‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 10:20 AM, AriAu said:

 

5. Was it just me or in the scene with William and Beth, did Beth bear a striking resemblance to Prince. 

My BF looked up from his computer and said - why is Prince on this show! :)

[jjj]

Was Randall taken to the fire station the same day he was born?  In this episode, he is shown in the new baby nursery; I forget why William took him to the fire station (mother dead or on drugs?).  But if it was not the day he was born, then he has a different birthday than the other two. 

[Clanstarling]

I'm happy to wait to see how things play out - even when I read mystery novels I don't try to guess. I enjoy the ride. So I mostly skim through the speculation. Not because it's not good, but because I prefer to wait and see, generally speaking.

That being said, I enjoyed @SueB's thorough analysis. I loved the approach -laying out all the points in a logical fashion. I am a sucker for logic and bullet points. :)

[chocolatine]

26 minutes ago, jjj said:

Was Randall taken to the fire station the same day he was born?  In this episode, he is shown in the new baby nursery; I forget why William took him to the fire station (mother dead or on drugs?).  But if it was not the day he was born, then he has a different birthday than the other two. 

The mother died giving birth. Unless William went out to get formula and bottles, Randall wouldn't have made it several days. William must have dropped him off at the fire station the day he was born.

Edited September 29, 2017 by chocolatine

[Cardie]

30 minutes ago, jjj said:

Was Randall taken to the fire station the same day he was born? 

Yes.

[kili]

Quote

Leaves on the ground - It's fall, not winter. Note, no Halloween decorations.  Early November?  Early October?

Thanksgiving? Maybe that is why they slavishly repeat the Pearson traditions....the fire/death happened right before Thanksgiving.

Hollywood decorations didn't seem to become a BIG thing until recently. Sure, there was always that house, but it seems like everybody decorates now. So, I wouldn't necessarily rule out the Hallowe'en time frame.

Quote

Kate's room has a BIG hole through the roof. And something is falling down there.  And the fireman is pointing in that direction.  Looks like Kate's room is where the fire started (hence her guilt). 

What could Kate have in her room that started a huge fire while people were awake and prevented somebody from escaping? Straightening Irons (Rachel was clear it wasn't a curling irons) next to a box of Kleenex would start a slow fire that could burn down a house if people were away or sleeping. One would think one would notice the smoldering if one was home. I could see Randall starting a fire ball with a science experiment or Kevin with all the airplane glue and a soldering iron. What kind of heavy flammable hobby is Kate into? She used hairspray and a lighter to take out a spider?

The fire happened during the day while the kids were at school, Rebecca was working at the Steeler's front office and Jack was taking a snooze?

Maybe the fire happened the night before, Jack seemed fine and collapsed at work? Fire happens and  Jack rescues everybody. "Sure, we lost the house, but we all survived and things can be replaced. People can't.," The next day, the kids  to go school (keep life normal), Rebecca deals with insurance, and Jack goes to work (got to pay those bills and critical milestone that Miguel needs him for). Jack collapses at work (sometimes, people seem fine after a fire and die 24 hours later) and isn't found until it is too late. Rebecca rushes to the hospital and Miguel goes to pick up the kids. Kevin goes out the back way for his date (or skipped gym class because of his broken leg) so Miguel doesn't find him, but he does pick up the other two.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, SueB said:

WHY did they get the dog.

My guess is Jack got it for Kate because he felt bad for her that Kevin and Randall had girlfriends.

How do you guys know that top right room in the house was Kate's?  

[Crs97]

On 9/28/2017 at 10:28 AM, MelGoLightly said:

SO help me if Rebecca was having a "wish this was reality" flashback when she got Jack out of Miguel's house and told him to get in the car...I will keep watching but complain a lot. 

I thought I saw or read an interview in which Mandy exclaimed happily, "For  once I got to be the hero!" in relation to that scene. You won't be the only one upset if it turns out to be imaginary. 

[jjj]

Oh, I think the fire is real, but I also think it is a major misdirect.  Related to Jack's death, but I will be very surprised if he dies in the fire. 

By the way, Mandy and Miguel are living in a very upscale house when Randall visits her.  So they are living in a much better house than either of them had when Jack was alive.

[qtpye]

34 minutes ago, jjj said:

Oh, I think the fire is real, but I also think it is a major misdirect.  Related to Jack's death, but I will be very surprised if he dies in the fire. 

By the way, Mandy and Miguel are living in a very upscale house when Randall visits her.  So they are living in a much better house than either of them had when Jack was alive.

I wonder if there was a large insurance pay out?  Maybe this is what Kevin and Randall use to finance their lucrative careers?  I think I remember Beth saying something to the effect of that the house was run down when they bought it and that it was not clear if the firm Randall joined would be successful, though I could be misremembering.  Maybe Kevin used the money to finance his acting career in LA, before he hit it big with the Manny? It also could be why Kate is not that worried about financially supporting herself?

The big three would see this as Jack still supporting the family from beyond the grave.  

[kili]

Quote

What IS working for me, oddly enough, is the Kate-Kevin-Toby dynamic.  I was kind of off Toby in the latter part of last season, but I understand his frustration with Kevin and, in that whole thing, I find myself coming down on his side...which is sort of freaking me out.

Toby shouldn't be arguing with Kevin about this (except maybe his popping in unexpectedly). Toby should be talking to Kate.

If it bothers him that Kate puts more value on Kevin's opinion or goes to him first when she has issues, that's Toby-Kate problem.  It's a bit patronizing for him to be yelling at Kevin about these things. It's not for Kevin to work out with Toby how Toby and Kate's relationship should work. Kate asked Kevin's opinion on the outfit and he gave it. Kate went to Kevin for help.  Is Kevin supposed to tell her to get lost because he has an arrangement with Toby to do so?  Nope. Toby needs to work with Kate to define their relationship.

On a side note, Kevin is in a better position to give Kate advice on what to wear to an audition. He is in the entertainment business and while it is a different arm of the entertainment biz, he knows more about auditioning than Toby does.

I find Toby's behavior a little controlling.

Edited September 29, 2017 by kili

[OtterMommy]

2 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

My guess is Jack got it for Kate because he felt bad for her that Kevin and Randall had girlfriends.

Based on previous episodes, they may have gotten it because Jack wanted more kids AND a dog, and Rebecca compromised.

[ShadowFacts]

22 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

Based on previous episodes, they may have gotten it because Jack wanted more kids AND a dog, and Rebecca compromised.

Yes, Jack himself wanted a dog and I won't be surprised if we see a flashback of his ratass father refusing to ever get him a dog. 

[Optimist48]

2 hours ago, Crs97 said:

I thought I saw or read an interview in which Mandy exclaimed happily, "For  once I got to be the hero!" in relation to that scene. You won't be the only one upset if it turns out to be imaginary. 

 

It's not imaginary.  Fogelman gave an interview where he said the next episode's flashbacks pick up with the scene of Rebecca and Jack leaving Miguel's house.

[Katy M]

3 hours ago, kili said:

What could Kate have in her room that started a huge fire while people were awake and prevented somebody from escaping? Straightening Irons (Rachel was clear it wasn't a curling irons) next to a box of Kleenex would start a slow fire that could burn down a house if people were away or sleeping. One would think one would notice the smoldering if one was home. I could see Randall starting a fire ball with a science experiment or Kevin with all the airplane glue and a soldering iron. What kind of heavy flammable hobby is Kate into? She used hairspray and a lighter to take out a spider?

Last year I said that they were going to have to come up with some bizarre way for Jack to die or it would be a real anticlimax.  I said that if he didn't spontaneously combust I was going to be disappointed.  I can see a full grown male spontaneously combusting creating a large fireball.  That's my story and I'm sticking to i.

[OtterMommy]

19 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Last year I said that they were going to have to come up with some bizarre way for Jack to die or it would be a real anticlimax.  I said that if he didn't spontaneously combust I was going to be disappointed.  I can see a full grown male spontaneously combusting creating a large fireball.  That's my story and I'm sticking to i.

Infected ingrown toenail.....just you wait!  ;-D

But, yeah, this show may have shot itself in its own foot with this.  They've tried to build such expectations for Jack's death that I'm not sure what will actually live up to it.  

[Guest]

That's why I think they'll be left with a notebook of Jack's parting thoughts he wrote as he knew he was about to die a horrific martyr's death.  Kind of like Walter White's voicemail home in the Breaking Bad pilot, but a thousand times more sad and tearjerkerish.  William and Jack can both live on for seven seasons via their two little books of saccharine sentimentalities of familial adoration.

I just threw up in my mouth a little.  

[debraran]

Milo said the dog is bought for the family, to help unify them more the way dogs do. It was a compromise instead of another kid.  Miguels kids will be in later in the shows, but he can't say much because it effects the plot.

I might be in the minority but I don't want a "who or what killed Jack" all season. Last year, you knew it would happen but every show was about them. This season, I don't want a version of Clue or Who done it type of thing, I want to see them develop and grow and have issues we can relate too. Don't play the song too long or have every show a prelude to it.

Edited September 29, 2017 by debraran

[sasha206]

At this point, I feel like I want Jack to die an excruciating death caused only by him.  Is that wrong?  :)

 

11 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

I mostly agree, though I will say that I think there is a difference between a somewhat 'natural' death, and a violent or preventable one, that reverberates for survivors for many years, or forever.  They might be going that way and are just going at it too slowly for my taste.  It should have been revealed already as far as I'm concerned.

That annoys me, too.  There is nothing wrong with singlehood, and a person's soulmate can be a parent, friend, even their pet.  But this is given short shrift in fiction.  Our culture makes too big a deal of romantic love, imo, thus leaving out people who don't check off all the boxes on finding that one, special person. 

But didn't they show Kevin in the first episode with a bevy of women and feeling unsatisfied?  I got the feeling he had all the trappings of fame -- money, easy women, but was still unhappy and longing for something meaningful through both work and relationships

[TaylorTalk]

I don't think Jack's dead yet.  This show has legs for a couple of seasons.  At least 4.

I think the house burning down is just for added stakes.  It's like Silicon Valley.  If there are no roadblocks, there are no stakes.

 

Plus she was wearing a football jersey, which makes me think the house fire is from pre kids or around infant time and it was a renovation fire.

 

Or maybe the house caught on fire, which was the reason why it needed to be renovated in the first place which is how Jack got the house, and she's crying for something unrelated to the house because she didn't know that she would be owning it in the future and she just happened to drive by it, because they lived in the area anyways in the apaprtment.
 

[Optimist48]

24 minutes ago, qqererer said:

I don't think Jack's dead yet.  This show has legs for a couple of seasons.  At least 4.

I think the house burning down is just for added stakes.  It's like Silicon Valley.  If there are no roadblocks, there are no stakes.

 

Plus she was wearing a football jersey, which makes me think the house fire is from pre kids or around infant time and it was a renovation fire.

 

Or maybe the house caught on fire, which was the reason why it needed to be renovated in the first place which is how Jack got the house, and she's crying for something unrelated to the house because she didn't know that she would be owning it in the future and she just happened to drive by it, because they lived in the area anyways in the apaprtment.
 

1997ish Rebecca is driving with Jack's effects in the backseat and she lets out an anguished cry when she gets to the house. 

She is crying about her husband's sudden (and unexpected) death.  I'm frankly surprised that point is being debated. 

Also, Fogelman has been clear we will know the full story of Jack's death this season.  I'm going to go out on a limb and predict it will be the midseason finale.

Edited September 30, 2017 by Optimist48

[ShadowFacts]

2 hours ago, sasha206 said:

But didn't they show Kevin in the first episode with a bevy of women and feeling unsatisfied?  I got the feeling he had all the trappings of fame -- money, easy women, but was still unhappy and longing for something meaningful through both work and relationships

Yes, all three siblings were having their existential angst on the occasion of their 36th birthdays -- Kate with her weight, Randall looking for his birth father, Kevin hating his role in The Manny.  Kate promptly meets the Tobester, Randall is in a settled marriage, and Kevin gets involved with a couple more women before declaring the reason he came back to New York was for his ex-wife.  Check, check, check.  They could have left one of them single by choice, but I guess there's not enough drama in that.  I actually enjoyed seeing Kevin as uncle to the girls, and relating to William, etc., and didn't think he needed to be paired off. 

P.S.  SueB, you are a veritable detective.  I've been watching Columbo and Monk, and you're right up there. 

Edited September 30, 2017 by ShadowFacts

[Guest]

As far as the fire scene being misdirection, Fogelman clarified that 

Spoiler

the fire is directly responsible for Jack's death.

I'm not sure if media stuff is spoilers so I'll hide it just in case.  

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/27/entertainment/this-is-us-season-premiere/index.html

 

Regarding seeing a non-romance plot for Kevin... I think we're stuck for at least another season with these foundational stories for the big three, and how each was prompted by childhood events:  Kate's weight/guilt issue, Kevin's intimacy/commitment issues, Randall's perfectionism/anxiety.

[walnutqueen]

I just realized that I no longer care how Jack died, or when Jack died, or where Jack died.  Quelle domage, show; you took the tease just a little too far.  :-(

[sasha206]

On 9/28/2017 at 9:51 AM, Winston9-DT3 said:

I don't think that 'dragger and draggee' thing was appropriate.  She and Rebecca both, and by extension the writers, were saying it's not only normal but healthy for a spouse to force you into irreversible life decisions?  Bullshit.

Wouldn't an adoption counselor be much more concerned that there is a draggee? I would think that would be one huge red flag for the adoption agency.  

[jjj]

3 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

I just realized that I no longer care how Jack died, or when Jack died, or where Jack died.  Quelle domage, show; you took the tease just a little too far.  :-(

Bingo.  Seriously, the only point of showing us that final scene was to string us along.  The show could just have proceeded with its plots leading to Jack's death, without showing us that final scene.  Now the show is about the clues along the way, and the plots stop being the focus.  They just should have left out the final 90 seconds. 

I did not mind seeing Jack's funeral scene last year -- it was vague and seemed a good counterpoint in that episode.  This sledgehammer foreshadowing is too much information and too much of a tease, all at the same time.   

Edited September 30, 2017 by jjj

[debraran]

5 hours ago, jjj said:

Bingo.  Seriously, the only point of showing us that final scene was to string us along.  The show could just have proceeded with its plots leading to Jack's death, without showing us that final scene.  Now the show is about the clues along the way, and the plots stop being the focus.  They just should have left out the final 90 seconds. 

I did not mind seeing Jack's funeral scene last year -- it was vague and seemed a good counterpoint in that episode.  This sledgehammer foreshadowing is too much information and too much of a tease, all at the same time.   

I think they were surprised how popular the show became and tried to keep up with the hype and love. Many fans caught up later on cable and it was slightly delayed. Now it was "we really have to wow them" but I think they will do well not overdoing it, just go with the gut of the writing last year.

I know it's really schmaltzy , but I wonder if the fireman who dropped off Randall will be part of the fire episode.

[bettername2come]

1 hour ago, debraran said:

I know it's really schmaltzy , but I wonder if the fireman who dropped off Randall will be part of the fire episode.

I'm sure he must be, otherwise they'd kill Jack in a different way. I'm also kind of expecting Dr. K to show up amd either die the same night or be sad at the funeral that Jack didn't live to be an old man and say something wise to Rebecca.

[debraran]

1 hour ago, bettername2come said:

I'm sure he must be, otherwise they'd kill Jack in a different way. I'm also kind of expecting Dr. K to show up amd either die the same night or be sad at the funeral that Jack didn't live to be an old man and say something wise to Rebecca.

And Jack CAN"T die without saying something to Rebecca through voice or written word, it has to be a sad, tear-jerker, not a "Jack died" with nothing, just doesn't flow with the show. It could be but I'd be surprised