S04.E12: Irish Goodbye

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Liza and Maggie meet Josh in Ireland. Kelsey is forced to play nice with a new colleague. Charles's personal life is thrown into the spotlight.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Promo:

[Armchair Critic]

C'mon Liza you don't even want Josh... 

Wait a minute, my program info said the show went on for over an hour. WTF were they trying to trick me into watching their new show?

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

Shouldn't the fact that Fiona was able to suss out how brief Josh and Clare's relationship was just by browsing Instagram convince everyone involved to throw in the towel? What hope do they have of getting this charade past Homeland Security?

Also, Charles should fire Zane now for being such a shady fuck. 

[dubbel zout]

5 minutes ago, Armchair Critic said:

Wait a minute, my program info said the show went on for over an hour. WTF were they trying to trick me into watching their new show?

I know! I thought there might be another episode instead of one long one.

3 minutes ago, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

Also, Charles should fire Zane now for being such a shady fuck. 

Seriously. Zane can't be trusted. And he's grossly condescending to Kelsey. I'm glad they had her shut him down, but Charles needs to cut him loose. He can't have editors fighting each other like that. It's bad management.

For a season ender, this episode was seriously lacking.

[voiceover]

Wow.  I feel...stunned.  I'm not sure I get what just happened.

And -- nice way to bait & switch us, TVLand.

[srpturtle80]

I don't understand why all the promos called it "shocking." I found it pretty boring actually. And, since I am unashamedly Team Charles, I am getting so tired of nothing happening to move that storyline forward. I mean, shit or get off the pot. 

Wow, maybe I am a little cranky after thinking the episode was an hour long and it really wasn't! 

[voiceover]

21 minutes ago, srpturtle80 said:

I don't understand why all the promos called it "shocking." I found it pretty boring actually. 

Exactly.  I didn't know about the "shocking" promos, so I should clarify that I was "stunned" because it was a lot of nothing.  Nothing but  a location shoot which makes me wonder if Ireland's tourism board was a sponsor.

And p.s.: that Nobodies ep was a rerun.  Are you kidding me?

[bilgistic]

That subplot with the mother-of-the-bride's painting was so goofy. Hmm...what other Darren Star show had vagina paintings...?

[thesupremediva1]

I've felt almost nothing this season, but that Perishers song got to me. Josh loves Liza. He will always love Liza. I just want Josh to be happy, because he has an honest and pure heart. What he said about wanting any life that includes her is what you say when you're truly equipped to love someone for better or worse.

I take it from Liza's toast in the pub that if Josh had proposed, she would have said yes? A little confusing since she explained her kissing Charles as a manifestation of the need to blow up the whole relationship. But she didn't protest all that much when he floated the idea of shutting down the wedding and going back to her. In fact it took her all of five minutes to curl up in bed with the idea.

I have zero patience left for any current romantic storyline that involves Charles. The Wife annoys me to no end. But Charles hears Liza is "chasing after Josh in Ireland" and doesn't react? I thought he'd be grabbing his passport and hopping a flight to declare his love once and for all. Instead he stays home and can barely text her. This is not some great love I'm rooting for. At this point it's barely a missed connection on a subway car.

Team Josh and Liza. I hope the quality picks up in season 5 and character actions ring true again.

Edited September 14, 2017 by thesupremediva1

[HunterHunted]

13 hours ago, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

Shouldn't the fact that Fiona was able to suss out how brief Josh and Clare's relationship was just by browsing Instagram convince everyone involved to throw in the towel? What hope do they have of getting this charade past Homeland Security?

Do we know how long Josh and Liza have been broken up? It feels like this 6 month lie is going to run into some real roadblocks. If these two dumbasses had bothered to talk to an attorney, they would have found out that there is a fiancé visa that gives you 90 days to marry. 

13 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

C'mon Liza you don't even want Josh... 

No kidding. This was more about Liza being in mom mode and not wanting to deal with her Charles mess.

Quote

Also, Charles should fire Zane now for being such a shady fuck. 

It was pretty clear that Zane was taking point on the GMA segment. I don't know how Charles could even pretend like Kelsey had any culpability for that.

11 hours ago, bilgistic said:

That subplot with the mother-of-the-bride's painting was so goofy. Hmm...what other Darren Star show had vagina paintings...?

 

11 hours ago, thesupremediva1 said:

I have zero patience left for any current romantic storyline that involves Charles. The Wife annoys me to no end. But Charles hears Liza is "chasing after Josh in Ireland" and doesn't react? I thought he'd be grabbing his passport and hopping a flight to declare his love once and for all. Instead he stays home and can barely text her. This is not some great love I'm rooting for. At this point it's barely a missed connection on a subway car.

I don't expect Charles to run off after Liza, but I do expect him to turn to Pauline and say "Charles and Pauline: co-parenting is a work in progress. Charles and Pauline in a romantic relationship is not a going concern." Despite being a book publisher, he has been defined by his inability to articulate and communicate. He's such a punk ass. He doesn't need to tell Pauline he's into Liza. He just needs to tell Pauline he's not into her.

Edited September 14, 2017 by HunterHunted

[voiceover]

I caught the first 5 minutes on the repeat.  Thought I'd get clarity -- now I'm just crankier.   I don't like that suggestion of a subplot with Zane & Diana -- make them a couple if you want, but I'd so hoped we were past having Diana look silly.  And that scene read as Zane flirting to get Diana on his side, but Diana not seeing that.  Aaauuughhhhh!!!!

And that Maggie's Pub in the background was so obvious I wondered if they cut a reference to it

"How can you love someone you met one month ago?" --- really???  Isn't that a romcom staple?

Edited September 14, 2017 by voiceover
Oops. Names.

[bilgistic]

2 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

 

 

The other reason I remember this episode is because the artist's wife offers Charlotte lemonade with chocolate-chip cookies. Ick!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I wanted Liza to tell Josh to fuck right off. First he manipulates her into going to Ireland by saying that he NEEDS her. Then he has his new girlfriend ask her to lie for them because he doesn't have the balls to ask Liza himself. Then he accuses her of being selfish because she is willing to lie for herself but not for Clare. When she tells him that she feels uncomfortable (after he JUST told her that if she was uncomfortable lying then it was okay for her not to lie), he tells her, "If you don't want to be here, then just go home." Oh, okay, let me just book another last minute intercontinental flight, you selfish asshole. Then he shows up to her hotel room drunk and tries to get back together with her the night before his wedding. Dude, seriously, just STOP.

Am I really supposed to believe there were only ten people at that wedding with cell phones?

3 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

I don't expect Charles to run off after Liza, but I do expect him to turn to Pauline and say "Charles and Pauline: co-parenting is a work in progress. Charles and Pauline in a romantic relationship is not a going concern." Despite being a book publisher, has been defined by his inability to articulate and communicate. He's such a punk ass. He doesn't need to tell Pauline he's into Liza. He just needs to tell Pauline he's not into her.

ITA. All of this "we're a work in progress" crap is him not being honest with her. Is he avoiding closing the door on reconciling with Pauline because he wants to see if anything will happen with Liza? Or is he just being wishy washy?

3 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Do we know how long Josh and Liza have been broken up? It feels like this 6 month lie is going to run into some real roadblocks. If these two dumbasses had bothered to talk to an attorney, they would have found out that there is a fiancé visa that gives you 90 days to marry.

S4 began exactly where S3 ended so it's unclear how much time has passed this season (aside from the obvious three weeks we keep hearing about Josh and Clare have known each other (for the record, that was in S4.E8).

I don't think this marriage is going to work out because Josh and Clare seem to be looking at it two very different ways. Josh told Liza that he is doing this because he wants to be with Clare. Clare told Liza that she isn't in love with Josh but she loves that Josh is willing to marry her so she can follow her dreams in the United States.

[Aulty]

what a rubbish season finale.

I liked that the pub in the background when Maggie and Liza arrived in Ireland was called 'Maggie's' and that we have Diana back in prowling mode. Maggie hooking up with Claire's mum on the other hand ... yeah, whatever. Charles should make sure the contract with Moore is altered to favor Empirical and then kick Zayne out - blaming Kelsey in front of Charles was the worst, and Charles should know that Kelsey would never do that.

It was beyond unrealistic and , frankly, unreasonable for Josh to ask Liza to come to Ireland - dude must have other friends. Liza reminding him that she can not give him what he wants was necessary (he didn't listen though, he never does), but she should not have cuddled up to him.

Liza's lovelife on this show is like watching an odd ping pong game. Its always rejection-triggered - she just wants one because she can't have the other.

I have no clue what the endgame for Liza will be - and I don't even know what I want it to be.

[allonsyalice]

2 hours ago, Aulty said:

I have no clue what the endgame for Liza will be - and I don't even know what I want it to be.

Same. Its equal parts exhilarating and annoying. I like that this show tries to take risks and throw the viewers for a loop, but at the same time, I want an idea about where we're gonna end up. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

The craziest thing about the timeline is that in about the same amount of time that Josh and Clare have known each other (THREE WEEKS), Pauline has gone from pitching her book to doing press for it on GMA.

It bothered me that Maggie insisted that since Liza said she and Josh are friends, she should act like aka lie for Clare. You can be someone's friend without aiding and abetting.

I thought it was silly that Clare just shut down when Fiona said she'd gone through her IG and saw that Josh and Clare had only known each other for a month. There are so many plausible excuses for that. She could have said that she and Josh knew each other for several months before they started seriously dating because she worked at a bar that he went to all the time. She could have said that they didn't post pictures of themselves together until recently because Josh was still friends with Liza and he didn't want her to think that he was rubbing his new girlfriend in her face. He could have said that after his young artist profile last year, he had a lot of female fans and he was advised by a publicist friend of his (Lauren) not to post photos with his girlfriend (even though he isn't super famous, it's common for male celebrities to be told this - I still remember how shocked people were when they found out that James Marsters of BtVS was married and had a kid because his publicist told him to keep it a secret to maintain his heart throb status). He could have said that after his breakup with Liza, he was a little wary of being so public about his relationships on social media.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Inside the episode:

[zabooky]

Charles is a real stiff.....Even if he does get a little freaky in the bedroom....allegedly. I think him and Liza together would be lame, especially since she's not the most outgoing person either. *yawn*. I thought the writers were done with the Josh and Liza storyline but I have to say, I'm not mad at it. That scene between the two of them gave me all the feels. I'm here for another round of Josh and Liza next season. That Irish girl is annoying. 

[dubbel zout]

9 hours ago, thesupremediva1 said:

But Charles hears Liza is "chasing after Josh in Ireland" and doesn't react?

Ugh, he's so passive. DO SOMETHING. 

[zabooky]

2 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Ugh, he's so passive. DO SOMETHING. 

He's too lame! *yawn*. Half the time it looks like he's constipated.....always trying to keep from expressing what he truly feels.

[Snarklepuss]

Wow, what an unsatisfying season finale, but how interesting that both men have locked themselves into situations that make them totally unavailable to Liza which might actually result in Liza taking some time out for introspection.  Charles acts like he's not in control of his life.  Well he needs to GET control.  If he really loves Liza he needs to take a public stand and stop letting Pauline manipulate him.  And Liza herself is not 100% sure of what she wants either.  If she was so easily swayed by Josh's drunken protestations of love she really doesn't know which guy (if any) she wants.  But at least we know now how Josh really feels.  He's just marrying Claire to forget about Liza.  Claire is looking more like someone that just wants a green card and is using Josh toward that end.  Unless Josh doesn't care what the Roman Catholic church thinks he's setting himself up for not being able to be married in that faith ever again should he get divorced.

Charles revealed himself to be a pretty bad manager in many ways this season.  He's totally messing up his personal life in the pursuit of a successful book.  He's misleading women and hiring shady, manipulative and untrustworthy Zane that totally disses and attempts to bulldoze Kelsey.  If he doesn't get back in control of himself he's just going to let manipulative people and knee-jerk reactions to situations ruin his entire life.  I think his conflicted feelings for Liza are having an effect on him in general which is only contributing to the bad business decisions.  I think my prediction last week will probably come true next season - that he'll probably try to convince Liza that what he was doing with Pauline was just for the book's sake, but that's going to be a hard sell.  Same with Josh trying to convince Liza that his drunken protestations of love were how he really feels.  I don't think she is going to trust either one.

I think this finale would have been better if there were some cliffhanger involved.  Where they left off is pretty anticlimactic and you can kind-of figure out where they're going next.  Unless the real surprise is next season. 

[EdnasEdibles]

I can't deal with Pauline. She just seems massively pathetic and clingy at this point and I don't know why she thinks Charles would want her back. Plus, to be petty, Jennifer Westfeldt had some TERRIBLE plastic surgery done and now she looks like a gelfling and I can't deal with it. At least Liza has a face that moves. 

[MissLucas]

 Who drops everything and jumps on a plane to attend the wedding of their ex on another continent? Not to mention doing that for the wedding of your roommate's ex?

Also: 30 sec. of googling produced this:

Quote

Since November 2007 anyone marrying in Ireland (irrespective of whether they are an Irish citizen or a foreign national) must give 3 months' notification before they marry.

This applies to both religious or secular marriage ceremonies.

Sure I can handwave this away because it's a tv show but then give me at least one character who behaves like a mature adult. This was just a galore of wishy washy. Both Charles and Josh seem to lack backbones and brains. And Liza doesn't come off much better. Spooning with one guy and wistfully staring at your smartphone in hopes of a message from another guy? Make up your mind, make your move (because neither of these two will ever make any) and put this show out of its misery.

And just to make things worse: the writing for Diane has reverted back to being awful.

[Angelus82]

That was the season finale?? I'm a big romantic and a sucker for a good romance but I am totally on board for Liza being single for a while. I'm so sick of the constant yo-yoing back and forth. If you're struggling this hard between two guys then maybe neither are the right choice.

I've been team Charles all along but ugghh!

2 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Ugh, he's so passive. DO SOMETHING. 

Right???!!!! And then he just sits there and allows Pauline to believe that "work in progress" crap. Grow a backbone. 

Diana was awesome last week but now the caricature of her character is back where she is just a joke to everyone.

The whole Zane thing is dumb. He may be some eye candy but he's just a jerk. 

[BabyVegas]

It's amazing how quickly you can watch a show when you skip through all the infuriating or stupid parts. I think I made it through this episode in about ten minutes. Liza is absolutely insane to fly to another continent at the drop of a hat, especially when she doesn't know what she wants. The entire time Josh and Clare were giving her shit for her lie, I really wanted to hear her say that yes she lied but it has caused a ton of pain and damage and so she's learned to stop lying. It would have been a good time for her to show she'd learned something. I'd say maybe she's just trying to act her alleged age, but most of the 27 year olds I know behave a whole lot better than she does.

As for Zane and Kelsey, Zane is such a slimeball. I really hope that Charles doesn't buy his little "oh, Kelsey's contact (who I made a BFD of knowing) totally went off the rails." Like the rest of y'all, I hope Charles is putting up with it long enough to get Moore secure and then release Zane.

Also, I was super disappointed there was no real movement on the Charles/Liza front. I've been team Charles this whole time, but this holding pattern is starting to annoy me. If they don't do something about it soon, it's going to just get irritating instead of something to root for.

[Whimsy]

3 hours ago, EdnasEdibles said:

I can't deal with Pauline. She just seems massively pathetic and clingy at this point and I don't know why she thinks Charles would want her back. Plus, to be petty, Jennifer Westfeldt had some TERRIBLE plastic surgery done and now she looks like a gelfling and I can't deal with it. At least Liza has a face that moves. 

I know, I really hate to be superficial, but I can't even watch her scenes because something about her face is just so... weird.  I also can't stand the way her mouth moves. 

There are so many parts of this show that I do like, but I am so unsatisfied with where the storylines are right now.  I was initially very team Josh.  But, he's so passive-aggressively a jerk that I just can't with him anymore.  I was warming to Charles until his wife came on the scene and now I am frustrated with him too.  And, then there's poor Maggie who keeps getting the SATC repeat plots.  Very disappointing.

[voiceover]

4 minutes ago, Whimsy said:

I know, I really hate to be superficial, but I can't even watch her scenes because something about her face is just so... weird.  I also can't stand the way her mouth moves.

IKR.  I thought it was just me.

[MissEwa]

8 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The craziest thing about the timeline is that in about the same amount of time that Josh and Clare have known each other (THREE WEEKS), Pauline has gone from pitching her book to doing press for it on GMA.

This was ridiculous - wasn't Liza still editing it last week? I can give them a bit of leeway because no-one wants this storyline to drag out the year or so the process usually takes, but when they held up actual copies of the book I gave myself a headache with how hard I rolled my eyes. It could have still been pre-publicity, but no. 

This season has been a mess. I've always been Team Josh but this was awful. I do give the writers one tiny bit of credit - when Claire was hinting blackmail with Liza about lying to homeland security, and then said it was Josh's idea, I expected that Liza would tell him and he'd be outraged and that would blow up the wedding. That it was his idea was nicely unexpected, and even a bit realistic - that as much as he wants to be over Liza and cool with what happened, he's still a little bitter. I get that. And this might sound weird but given that Claire is very clearly marrying him for the green card, the fact that he's marrying her to get over Liza is... fucked up, yes, but makes him a little complicit in the lie of the whole thing, so when it all blows up it's not just going to be the show dumping more pain on him. 

And I don't know what it is - whether Sutton's just aged a teeny bit or the fact that she's now taller than him (was she always?) or the writing, but for most of this episode their relationship seemed almost maternal, so when he kissed her it was... icky. And then the way he curled up on the bed made him seem very, very young. I don't know if that was deliberate, but the whole thing felt super-creepy. 

[dubbel zout]

6 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

Unless Josh doesn't care what the Roman Catholic church thinks he's setting himself up for not being able to be married in that faith ever again should he get divorced.

I think Claire is the Catholic one, not Josh, and it seemed she went through with the religious ceremony because of her mom, not because Claire has any strong feelings about it. 

6 hours ago, EdnasEdibles said:

I don't know why she thinks Charles would want her back.

Maybe because Charles isn't telling her he doesn't? He's been really vague with her.

[bilgistic]

When Claire walked down the aisle, I said out loud, "She's going to stop this whole thing." I was waiting for that twist, and then Josh would be honest--declaration of love for Liza from the altar, leaving everyone agape. That would've been a good cliffhanger.

[Armchair Critic]

6 hours ago, EdnasEdibles said:

Jennifer Westfeldt had some TERRIBLE plastic surgery done and now she looks like a gelfling

She does! Perfect description.

[voiceover]

7 hours ago, EdnasEdibles said:

 Plus, to be petty, Jennifer Westfeldt had some TERRIBLE plastic surgery done and now she looks like a gelfling 

Okay: forced to google this, and now it's in my head.  Thank goodness I have until 2018 to shed the image!

[MortysCleaningLady]

So many things that I hated.  And this was the season finale?

Pauline's interview with GMA.   I don't watch much GMA, as I leave for work before it begins.   I can't imagine any book interview going in such a boring manner would ever last that long.   The idea is a hook, but she is just so boring.  The hook shouldn't be 'they are back together' but rather what success / clarity Pauline gathered while on the vacation.  And Charles could have said no to the interview, but as the book publisher could have been better prepared.

The sudden trip to Ireland.  Because of course Diana is going to just let her go on a 5 minute whim. And as Pauline's editor, shouldn't Liza have to be at the GMA interview?

Josh begging Liza to come and then hanging with pals at the pub all the time. 

Meeting Claire's BFF at the rehearsal dinner.

The wedding -- I'm a Catholic and very Irish.  (My avatar looks just like me, minus the pupils in my eyes.) To say I have been to a few Irish Catholic weddings is an understatement.  No priest will perform a wedding without premarital classes and interviews. Additionally, the Catholic church does very few outside weddings -- only on previously consecrated ground. I'm pretty sure the handfasting/ hand tying ceremony is a pagan tradition from Scotland (not Ireland and not involving a priest).

All the sudden Liza love -- who doesn't want her at this point?  She could have Josh, Jay (Jay, call me!) or Charles.   Thank goodness Maggie is staying n the friend zone.

Oh gee, Charles called during the wedding.   Do ya'll want to know how often I don't answer my phone?  All the time.  I have voicemail.   It's pretty new fangled, so maybe Liza hasn't gotten it yet.   I was impressed that her phone worked in Ireland, though.   Between the service fees and chargers, it can be a bear to get it to work.

And finally, the real reason Irish step dancers traditionally don't move their upper bodies is because British forbade dancing during the occupations.   So the sentries walking by the pubs would not associate the movements with dancing.

Worst episode in a while; not enough Maggie or Diana.

[gesundheit]

That was pretty low-impact. OBVIOUSLY Josh still loves Liza, that's not news. And it's not that much of an imposition that they asked her to lie for them -- she's still asking everyone to lie for her. (And with her fake IDs and tax forms, she's already lying to the government. She's a pretty good person to ask in such a situation.) Shrug. Not too interesting. Especially Charles continuing to be a dud. Oh and Maggie got some action finally and it's off-screen. Screw you, show!

[Snarklepuss]

It's not just the complication for either Josh or Claire of marrying in the Roman Catholic church.  I don't think Josh researched the implications of marrying a non-citizen.  It's not enough just to marry them.  I think they have to stay married for something like 2 years and have residence together too.  If after two years they're not still together, Claire could get thrown out of the country.  Plus there's some crazy clause about the American "sponsor" being responsible for any government support the spouse might get (like welfare) should they find out the couple is no longer "together".  Add to that the obvious fact that Claire is not in love with Josh and Josh is still in love with Liza and the situation is fraught with complications.  I can see how it can become a living nightmare for all of them and in the end put an end to Liza ever wanting to be with Josh even if he is willing to let Claire get deported in order to divorce.  That might happen if they have a falling out at some point even without Liza in the picture.  And that looks like a distinct possibility because they don't look like they're headed in a positive direction.  Liza's not going to want to touch that mess with a 10 foot pole.  Then again, the Charles mess doesn't look much better at this point!

Edited September 15, 2017 by Snarklepuss

[Palomar]

Maybe Claire will get pregnant next season and dump the baby with Josh while she does her thing with her new green card.  Then, Josh could get back with Liza without the age thing mattering as much since they could be a new family unit without Liza having to worry about a miracle pregnancy.  I know, a BS scenario, but I doubt the producers know where this is going either! 

[Whimsy]

42 minutes ago, Palomar said:

Maybe Claire will get pregnant next season and dump the baby with Josh while she does her thing with her new green card.  Then, Josh could get back with Liza without the age thing mattering as much since they could be a new family unit without Liza having to worry about a miracle pregnancy.  I know, a BS scenario, but I doubt the producers know where this is going either! 

I could see that happening like that, but I have to say as a 44 year old who just had my youngest head off to college- there's no way in HELL I'd want to start all the way over with child rearing.  I wouldn't think for Liza that it's just about the possible complications of having a baby at her age (medically) but having to start ALL OVER from the very beginning.  I'm exhausted just thinking about it.

[Snarklepuss]

Yeah, no, Liza would not want to be a mommy again to any baby, that was the issue in the first place so I don't see that happening.  Maybe there's another construction beam in Claire's future?  I'm kidding, BTW.  I'd hate it if that would happen, but you never know, she may decide to return to Ireland voluntarily.

[MortysCleaningLady]

2 hours ago, Palomar said:

Maybe Claire will get pregnant next season and dump the baby with Josh while she does her thing with her new green card.  Then, Josh could get back with Liza without the age thing mattering as much since they could be a new family unit without Liza having to worry about a miracle pregnancy.  I know, a BS scenario, but I doubt the producers know where this is going either! 

So, Claire could take a Marriage Vacation from which she did not return?   And she and Pauline could run off together, opening up the Charles triangle again?  Perhaps, I should type something so silly, as TPTB might be reading for ideas.   (Have Jay call me!)

[ElectricBoogaloo]

18 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

It's not just the complication for either Josh or Claire of marrying in the Roman Catholic church.  I don't think Josh researched the implications of marrying a non-citizen.  It's not enough just to marry them.  I think they have to stay married for something like 2 years and have residence together too.  If after two years they're not still together, Claire could get thrown out of the country.  Plus there's some crazy clause about the American "sponsor" being responsible for any government support the spouse might get (like welfare) should they find out the couple is no longer "together".  Add to that the obvious fact that Claire is not in love with Josh and Josh is still in love with Liza and the situation is fraught with complications.  I can see how it can become a living nightmare for all of them and in the end put an end to Liza ever wanting to be with Josh even if he is willing to let Claire get deported in order to divorce.  That might happen if they have a falling out at some point even without Liza in the picture.  And that looks like a distinct possibility because they don't look like they're headed in a positive direction.  Liza's not going to want to touch that mess with a 10 foot pole.  Then again, the Charles mess doesn't look much better at this point!

Yes to all of this. Someone I know was in a similar position to Josh - he married his girlfriend so she could stay in the country. They had been dating way longer than three weeks and they talked about the whole situation at great length before getting married. He said that he wasn't 100% sure that he wanted to be married to her until one of them died but that he also knew that he loved her enough that he didn't want her to leave the country and never see her again. But both of them went into this knowing what they were getting themselves into (in terms of being legally married). Not only do you have to stay married for two years, but you can get called in for an interview at any time during those two years. They can do surprise home visits. They can interview you separately and if your stories don't line up, one person gets deported and the other person can be charged with marriage fraud (which is a felony punishable by up to five years in federal prison and a $250K fine). They were making a serious commitment to their relationship by getting married in order to continue their relationship whereas Josh's attitude is "I want to see where this goes." Really? What if she cheats on you or dumps your ass or gets overly possessive or turns out to be a total asshole or decides that she's not going to get a job or destroys your credit? You're willing to spend two years of your life living with her no matter what? Even if that means you're no longer romantically involved for whatever reason and you can't be seen dating anyone else during that time because it will put her green card at risk? If you're marrying someone so they can stay in the country, you are making a pretty big commitment. At the very least, it's two years of your time but it could potentially wreck every other aspect of your life - all for a girl you have known for less than a month.

[TVForever]

On 9/14/2017 at 1:25 AM, voiceover said:

I caught the first 5 minutes on the repeat.  Thought I'd get clarity -- now I'm just crankier.   I don't like that suggestion of a subplot with Zane & Diana -- make them a couple if you want, but I'd so hoped we were past having Diana look silly.  And that scene read as Zane flirting to get Diana on his side, but Diana not seeing that.  Aaauuughhhhh!!!!

And that Maggie's Pub in the background was so obvious I wondered if they cut a reference to it

"How can you love someone you met one month ago?" --- really???  Isn't that a romcom staple?

You and me both. I've never been on board with Diana as the desperate, thirsty 40-something mooning over Charles while he scarcely gives her the time of day. Meanwhile the 20-somethings (even the fake one) have the great careers and the sexy fun. Even with his obvious "quirks", I was on board with Diana and Richard because at least she had a relationship of her own and wasn't chasing after Charles anymore.  We got to see her more as the more experienced worker giving some good advice to the younger women in her orbit. Well, Richard turned out to be awful, but that's another story. Just let us keep some of that Diana we saw when she kicked Richard to the curb, because it already looks like we're getting some of that clueless/butt of the joke Diana returning.

 

Meanwhile, in Ireland- 

I need to watch the episode again, but if anyone watched the old "Ballykissangel" series, that main street in the village looked so much like the street from the show. Does anyone know if they filmed in the same place? 

And our sweet little Clare showed a little bit of claw this episode, didn't she? That backdoor way that she worked to convince Liza to go along with her 6-month lie by letting her know that she knew Liza's secret? That was Boss. I hated her for it, but, wow. Methinks that girl is not as innocent as she seems, and maybe she's been playing more of a long game than we know.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

1 minute ago, TVForever said:

Methinks that girl is not as innocent as she seems, and maybe she's been playing more of a long game than we know.

The way she was just eating her ice cream looking bored while Josh was on the phone begging Liza to come to Ireland (aka spend a shitload of money that he knows she doesn't have) was what made me think this was all part of her master plan and that she had just been waiting for the right American sucker to come along.

[dubbel zout]

Just because Claire lost her work visa doesn't mean she can't visit the U.S., does it? Won't she still be able to come over as a tourist?

I know the green-card marriage is just a plot point, but since it's a real thing, I wish they'd been more thorough in justifying it.

[Claudia Kishi]

It annoyed me that Josh called Liza at 5 am to guilt her into coming to Ireland without even an apology for waking her up. And why did Liza need to immediately wake Maggie? They didn't leave right away - she went into work that day to talk to Diana. 

[HunterHunted]

4 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Just because Claire lost her work visa doesn't mean she can't visit the U.S., does it? Won't she still be able to come over as a tourist?

I know the green-card marriage is just a plot point, but since it's a real thing, I wish they'd been more thorough in justifying it.

She can still come over as a tourist. They can Skype. There are also a ton of US companies that are incorporated in Ireland. They've created some jobs in Ireland that have to interface with people in the US. Claire could probably work for one of those companies. Though it's pretty weird that Claire had this internship in New York and not California. Given that she was in Silicon Alley, it's surprising that she didn't try for another internship in Boston, D.C., Chicago, Austin, or Atlanta.

There is also a 90 day fiance visa.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

6 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Just because Claire lost her work visa doesn't mean she can't visit the U.S., does it? Won't she still be able to come over as a tourist?

I know the green-card marriage is just a plot point, but since it's a real thing, I wish they'd been more thorough in justifying it.

Yes, she could still come back on a tourist visa (or a student visa if she went to school somewhere). In the not so distant past, there were a lot of international gay couples (meaning one person was American and the other person was not) whose marriages were not legally recognized so one of them would come on a tourist visa and when it expired, they flew back to their home country and applied for another tourist visa. 

[Bort]

There's no application for a tourist visa -- you just fly over. But as she will have an expired work visa on her passport, border patrol would be very very suspicious of Claire if she came back. She would definitely get flagged and questioned as she went through customs.

[dubbel zout]

That's exactly what I was wondering, kariyaki (though it wasn't phrased that way).

[Eri]

I echo everyone's sentiments about the finale being a flop - I found myself only partially invested in the show but not completely.

I figured they'd turn Zane into a narcissistic ladder climber (the charm had to wear off eventually *sigh*) the moment he left his former employer but I accepted him and Kelsey to be over after she ghosted him. He gave his feeble reasons and wants her back. She said she doesn't want to - what more is there to get Zane? Letting your personal feelings get in the way at work is supposed to help? Ugh, this is why you don't shit where you eat. I saw Diana feeling him with those "I see you" eyes though lol.

I hate when shows try to squeeze a last minute international trip into a 30 min finale. Couldn't Josh have just eloped with Claire then they come back to the States with the complications hence begging for Liza's help? You don't invite someone to another country and then bail on them for the entire episode except to guilt trip them when things aren't going your way.

As much of a decent guy he is, Josh is still very much an immature bonehead. Of COURSE he'd have a fourth-date marriage with an Irish girl he's known less than a month because he's unhappy. He can't stand liars but he wants Liza to lie for him? She introduced you to someone new so you can move on, she's done her part and you're even now.  I was concerned that he or Claire were planning to blackmail Liza with her "secret" if she didn't comply - when is she going to stop "owing" him? F*** him, keep it moving. They'd have been better off with Josh committing to leave the US to live in Ireland with Claire and write him off the show for a while.

I'm not invested in the "Will they/won't they" with Charles and Liza anymore either. He unwillingly accepts the situation with his ex for the sake of the company so either move them forward or cut them loose. This show will not last another season unless they move the story forward instead of all the yo-yoing.

All the men sucked this season.

Edited September 17, 2017 by Eri