S01.E03: The Principle Is All

[Drogo]

Vincent is blindsided by an unexpected partner after putting the finishing touches on his new bar, causing Frankie to blow a gasket. Meanwhile, Rudy buys into a rival's plan to reconfigure The Deuce and, hopefully, with the support of an ambitious mayor; Candy looks for a way into the filmmaking business; Darlene works overtime to compensate Larry; Bobby pays a price for his recent stress at work; and a menacing drifter proves useful to Vincent when the Hi-Hat finally opens.

[Primetimer]

...while other heads appear to be in mortal jeopardy.

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[Milburn Stone]

I easily could have missed it in one of the previous episodes, but this is the first time in which I was aware of hearing a character speak the words "The Deuce." I didn't get what it meant at first. Thought it might be the name of Franco's bar. Or some other bar. Then eventually I got (I think) that it's the name they give the 42nd St. neighborhood.

Anyone know why? My conjecture is just that the deuce, being the lowest-value card in the deck, corresponds to the scumminess of the neighborhood. Which is either a right conjecture, or a completely wrong one.

[EtheltoTillie]

1 hour ago, Milburn Stone said:

I easily could have missed it in one of the previous episodes, but this is the first time in which I was aware of hearing a character speak the words "The Deuce." I didn't get what it meant at first. Thought it might be the name of Franco's bar. Or some other bar. Then eventually I got (I think) that it's the name they give the 42nd St. neighborhood.

Anyone know why? My conjecture is just that the deuce, being the lowest-value card in the deck, corresponds to the scumminess of the neighborhood. Which is either a right conjecture, or a completely wrong one.

It's just the two in 42.  It was used for the street, not the whole neighborhood. 

[Traveller519]

Well, they got the bar open, and Abby a reason to be there other than just hang out with Vincent. But the episode on the whole cooled a lot of the momentum that had come from the latter part of the Pilot through last week. Lori and CC appeared, but it didn't feel like they moved forward much from last week. Darlene's story served to humanize Larry a bit, and push forward her own inquisitive nature a little. Even Candy barely moved the needle from wanting to be in movie making to taking steps to do so, though I did like her sit-down with David Krumholtz' character for a bit of brevity.

On the plus side, the environment is feeling very lived in, which is a Simon special. In the vastness of New York City, I'm getting a spacial feel for the neighborhood, and you can believe that all the characters are going to be inter-related. If everybody's settling into their surroundings, the plot should start to flow.

[thuganomics85]

Never knew I would enjoy watching James Franco get on James Franco's nerves, but I'm getting a kick out the Frankie always sending Vincent into a profanity-led rant, but you still can tell that they care for one another.  Ah, brothers!

So, after a few failed jobs and getting her money stolen from a co-worker she had a one night stand with, it looks like Abby will now be more in the thick of things by being a waitress at Vincent's bar.  Already getting some nice moments with Darlene and whatnot (only slightly undercut by Darlene's pimp glaring at them.) Curious to see where this goes.  Other then the obvious Vincent/Abby hook-up that is bound to happen.

Candy is finding it harder then expected to get into the moves.  I wonder if we'll see David Krumholtz's character again.

I was a bit confused with the C.C./Lori scene.  Was C.C. basically saying that Lori has been taken too many "one and done" clients and she needed to start thinking about long term clients?  Is it suppose to be that the attack from last week has shaken her up in that aspect?

Still not all that interested in the mobster stuff.

Aww, why must Chris Bauer characters always suffer?

[Rinaldo]

6 hours ago, GussieK said:

It's just the two in 42.  It was used for the street, not the whole neighborhood. 

Exactly. "The Deuce" = "the '2." It's a term that really was used among those who worked the street, back when it was a center of illicit trade. More fully, "Forty-Deuce" was also used, and that was the title of an off-Broadway play (1981) about young male street hustlers (catering to the male trade), which was filmed in 1982.

3 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I was a bit confused with the C.C./Lori scene.  Was C.C. basically saying that Lori has been taken too many "one and done" clients and she needed to start thinking about long term clients?  Is it suppose to be that the attack from last week has shaken her up in that aspect?

Yes, that's exactly what he said to her: that having been understandably freaked out by last week's attack, she was sticking to short-term service for the tunnel trade, back and forth. which felt safer to her (the guys are in no position to deliberately hurt her, under the circumstances) than going off to a room with a customer. But C.C. said that the latter is what she has to start doing, to build up regular clients and better, more assured income within the same timeframe.

The little unexpected links between two hitherto unrelated characters is one of the great pleasures of Simon's series. In this episode, Darlene and Abby bonding over Dickens, despite their different histories with reading for fun. Though I don't know that I agree with Abby's recommendations for further titles.

I would be just as happy -- happier -- if Frankie weren't in the story at all, but I'm developing an affection for Vinnie. This episode showed us, without anybody verbalizing it, just why Frankie is so good at making a success of bars: he takes the time to make each customer feel special for a moment, and he's happy to have a wide-ranging clientele (telling bartender Paul to let the former gay customers know they're still welcome) -- as he said in a previous episode, everybody's got to drink, and all their money spends equally well. 

Edited September 25, 2017 by Rinaldo

[SoothingDave]

I thought Vincent was told, as part of his "deal" to own the bar, that the machine income belonged to the gangsters who set him up.  It makes no sense that he would blithely stand there while Frankie breaks into the machines, and later vandalizes them more thoroughly.  Maybe the particular Irish gangster didn't have a valid claim on the machines, but he knew that his Italian gangster did.

I wish the bits with the gangsters and the lawyers made more sense.  I don't know who was meeting with whom and what it means, other than that they have plans for "redeveloping" the neighborhood and want to make sure they have suckers (like Vincent) to own things on paper.

[Milburn Stone]

47 minutes ago, SoothingDave said:

I wish the bits with the gangsters and the lawyers made more sense.  I don't know who was meeting with whom and what it means, other than that they have plans for "redeveloping" the neighborhood and want to make sure they have suckers (like Vincent) to own things on paper.

I didn't understand that either, because 1) Aren't the gangsters making money hand over fist from the status quo illegitimacy of the neighborhood?; and 2) Doesn't fixing it with the police to stay away from the neighborhood work at cross-purposes to any plan to redevelop the neighborhood? I have a feeling the show will make it all clear to my satisfaction, but right now those are the questions that stand in the way of me making sense of things.

Thanks, @GussieK and @Rinaldo, for pointing out the connection between "the deuce" and the 2 in 42. I didn't make that connection. But now that I know that, I continue to think Simon intends the title to have layers, with one of those layers being the low value of the deuce card connoting the low value of the street.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Milburn Stone

[EtheltoTillie]

56 minutes ago, SoothingDave said:

I thought Vincent was told, as part of his "deal" to own the bar, that the machine income belonged to the gangsters who set him up.  It makes no sense that he would blithely stand there while Frankie breaks into the machines, and later vandalizes them more thoroughly.  Maybe the particular Irish gangster didn't have a valid claim on the machines, but he knew that his Italian gangster did.

I wish the bits with the gangsters and the lawyers made more sense.  I don't know who was meeting with whom and what it means, other than that they have plans for "redeveloping" the neighborhood and want to make sure they have suckers (like Vincent) to own things on paper.

I agree--this is not clear.  I can't even find anything in the Wikipedia entry on Mayor Lindsay.  But my best guess from reading between the lines is that they are planning on buying up cheap properties to develop the area with porn palaces/peep shows, which is what did happen in real life.  So somehow the stories will eventually tie together in some way.  I remember the old 42nd Street and saw it evolve to the new.  Somehow Lindsay is not going to enforce certain laws. and eventually rulings on free speech would give free rein to these activities.   They mentioned that Lindsay wanted to run for president, which did happen.  He switched from Republican to Democrat and wanted a more liberal image.  Didn't work in the end.  We know that Nixon got reelected in 1972, and we know what happened there . . .

Edited September 25, 2017 by GussieK

[LilaFowler]

Abby is still the false note in the show for me. We did see her character agree to go on a date after taking money so maybe this is a sign of things to come.

$8-$20 towards rent in NYC? Granted it was a hovel but still. My wallet weeps.

[Rinaldo]

In the short term, the intent of the message (from City Hall to police, with nothing on the record) is clear: to get the worst of the sex traffic away from 42nd Street to the area southwest of it (beyond the bus station, the Port Authority) which is away from Times Square (the theater district, the area tourists head for), so it'll look as if the politically ambitious Mayor Lindsay runs a clean orderly city -- "the optics will be better" in todays PR lingo. How that fits into the other activity isn't clear at present, and we know that in fact it didn't work out like that; the cleanup happened considerably later. All that, presumably, will be a big part of the series' narrative.

[SoothingDave]

$8 in 1971 is about $50 today.  If that makes you feel any better.  A cup of bottomless coffee in the diner was advertised for 15 cents.

[numbnut]

The pacing is slow but most of the ep was enjoyable. The twin and gangster premises aren't interesting to me, maybe because the mobsters and "bad" twin are one note (Rispoli is always the same). CC and Candy continue to steal the show for me. Gary Carr is killing it; his accent hasn't slipped once. I want to know why CC is so insecure. I'm not clear on why Larry was staring so hard at Darlene and Abby. Is he jealous?

[MrWhyt]

3 hours ago, SoothingDave said:

I thought Vincent was told, as part of his "deal" to own the bar, that the machine income belonged to the gangsters who set him up.

I believe the italian businessmen were going to put in their own machines and the ones that Frank broke into were left behind by the irish gentlemen.

[EtheltoTillie]

29 minutes ago, LilaFowler said:

Abby is still the false note in the show for me. We did see her character agree to go on a date after taking money so maybe this is a sign of things to come.

$8-$20 towards rent in NYC? Granted it was a hovel but still. My wallet weeps.

Yeah, those hovels on the Lower East Side--where I believe they are living on the show--could rent for under $100 a month in those days. 

[Milburn Stone]

30 minutes ago, Rinaldo said:

In the short term, the intent of the message (from City Hall to police, with nothing on the record) is clear: to get the worst of the sex traffic away from 42nd Street to the area southwest of it (beyond the bus station, the Port Authority) which is away from Times Square (the theater district, the area tourists head for), so it'll look as if the politically ambitious Mayor Lindsay runs a clean orderly city...

Thank you for making clear to me what the show didn't! (At least to me.) I thought the City Hall sub rosa instruction to the police was to lay off 42nd St. Couldn't make sense of that.

So, the mob is also part of this plan, right? That's what the meeting in the lawyer's office was about? Is the mob basically instructing City Hall to do this because the mob already has plans for the area? Or is it more that the mob has gotten wind of City Hall's plan and wants to cash in on it?

Edited September 25, 2017 by Milburn Stone

[SoothingDave]

6 minutes ago, MrWhyt said:

I believe the italian businessmen were going to put in their own machines and the ones that Frank broke into were left behind by the irish gentlemen.

Thanks, that makes a little more sense.  One line of dialog would have cleared that up.

[Milburn Stone]

2 minutes ago, SoothingDave said:

One line of dialog would have cleared that up.

I feel like this ought to be the motto of all David Simon shows.

[Syndicate]

Sigh! I'm still having trouble with this one it seems. I want to like it because I like seedy, grimy, crime shows. Sometimes I think it might've been better if someway, somehow, this show was created to air more than once a week. Hell, I'd take it in the "soap opera" format of airing five nights per week (this wouldn't happen on HBO of course) because I have to reiterate that there are sooooooooo many characters, and I'm having trouble keeping track of them and their positions on the canvas. Daytime soaps are often guilty of having an overabundance of characters in one setting, so this almost feels like a soap opera to me in that regard.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Syndicate

[SoothingDave]

Yes, but it will all pay off in the big gang bang grand finale!

[Rinaldo]

33 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

Thank you for making clear to me what the show didn't! (At least to me.) I thought the City Hall sub rosa instruction to the police was to lay off 42nd St. Couldn't make sense of that.

So, the mob is also part of this plan, right? That's what the meeting in the lawyer's office was about? Is the mob basically instructing City Hall to do this because the mob already has plans for the area? Or is it more that the mob has gotten wind of City Hall's plan and wants to cash in on it?

(The cop giving the instructions said "41st, 40th, west of 8th Avenue." And probably more I can't recall.)

I don't think that the mob is giving orders to City Hall -- I think City Hall wants it because the mayor wants his city to look better if he makes a try at President. (If you can't handle one city....) And if "the Deuce" and the streets just north are to be made more presentable-looking, then there's surely some redevelopment money to be made by anyone who's a sharp enough entrepreneur.

But the problem is that we're all reasoning and guessing ahead of what we've been shown. I suppose it's a problem that this, unlike other Simon series, is about a known slice of relatively recent history, so we feel that we "know what happens next" in terms of the big picture, before the onscreen narrative has gotten that far. If not everything has been made clear onscreen, I dare say it's not supposed to be 100% clear just yet.

[Kenz]

I'm having a hard time watching Vincent laugh off his brother Frankie's awful, destructive behavior There's brotherly love,  but come on, Frankie is an expensive disaster for Vincent.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Kenz

[Keepitmoving]

Quote

I want to know why CC is so insecure. I'm not clear on why Larry was staring so hard at Darlene and Abby. Is he jealous?

I think this is about control. He doesn't want her talking to/being influenced by anyone, especially someone he doesn't know. He reacted the same way when he saw that writer/reporter in the last episode trying to talk to her.  I'm looking for him to burn up that book that little Darlene is reading pretty soon. Anything that brings a ray of sunshine to that poor girl's eyes, he is bound to destroy. She was so excited telling him about the movies she was watching and he wasn't having it with all her excitement.  

I like this show because of the female characters mostly. I like the way James Franco is playing both of his characters but I just can't focus on his business and the details of what's going on with them.  I don't even get, or I missed why he went to the mob? Or did they come to him with the idea of owning that bar? I just zone out from time to time. Candy and Darlene continue to steal the show for me and so does Lori's pimp, whose name I can't remember. I can't stand his character, yet he seems layered and the actor plays him stands out.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[SoothingDave]

He was trying to pay back the mob the money his brother owed from gambling.  The mob then gave him the "opportunity" to have that debt forgiven, and to have "ownership" of his own bar.

[sistermagpie]

3 hours ago, LilaFowler said:

Abby is still the false note in the show for me. We did see her character agree to go on a date after taking money so maybe this is a sign of things to come.

 

God, me too. Watching her with James Franco I wonder why they didn't just write the character to be a girl from his old neighborhood who got out and went to college and has now fallen on hard times and her old friend's giving her a job. Then she could still comment on his bad life choices and tell Darlene other books by Charles Dickens. There was no reason to watch her eye-roll her way through numerous jobs she didn't care for when it seemed like the whole point of her throwing away college was to get into James Franco's world anyway. (She can't take getting yelled at as a telemarketer but she has no problem being a waitress in a busy Manhattan bar--without even a learning curve. She was looking bored as ever within minutes. Even having all her money stolen is something to sigh and eye-roll about.) Because when the two of them talk there's no sense that they come from different places, different classes or different generations. 

[Rinaldo]

11 minutes ago, Keepitmoving said:

She was so excited telling him about the movies she was watching and he wasn't having it with all her excitement.  

It's not as cut-and-dried as that, though. He immediately recognized A Tale '"in" Two Cities, and not really negatively. It raised a nostalgic smile for him. And he was agreeable to Darlene making up her absence by working extra the next day, without further reprisal. It's true he had a reaction to Darlene and Abby talking, but we don't yet know exactly what his reaction was. I'm not trying to make him out to be a sweetheart or anything, but one of the features of Simon's kind of TV is that even the bad guys weren't born awful -- they have histories and unexpected facets along the way to who they became.

One of the delightful things so far is that we have three main characters with a fondness for Dickens. Of course things may still go badly for Darlene because of it. Or not. I'll wait and see how it develops.

[meep.meep]

I figured that Larry was staring at Abby because he was seeing her as a new potential member of his stable.

[tennisgurl]

I have to say, I had no idea what was going on with the whole mob/mayor thing until I watched it a second time, and I am still not totally sure I am following. From what I gather, the Mayor will give the mob some leeway if they help him make the city look more presentable with tourists and rich investors, so the Mayor can brag about making the city better and cleaner, and he can use that to launch a presidential campaign eventually. He wants the drugs and hookers to go to one place where its considered ok for them to do their things, and they can be hidden from potential voters. Basically, its the third season of The Wire, but with a less altruistic start. 

Right now, I hope that Frankie will get some more layer soon, because now, the guy is just an asshole who keeps dragging his brother into more and more bullshit. I do like Vincent so far though, and I can see why he does so well in bar management. He just wants everyone to have a good time, and couldn't care less about gender, race, orientation, and or social class. In his new bar, he welcomes pimps, hookers, cops, average joes, college kids, gangsters, and lets Paul know that his regulars from the gay bar are still welcome there. He is just a likable guy, but I think that could also lead to problems. As affable as he is, he also seems to be something of a push over who has trouble standing up for himself or others. 

I think the most I've liked Abbey is when she was bonding with Darlene over Dickens. I am not super into Abbey right now, but her story could get interesting if they go more into why she feels so bored with everything. Especially if its more than just middle class rebellion and malese. I also still love Darlene, and I wish she could leave this behind and go work at some artsy film theater or a library and talk about old movies and novels all day long. I also find her pimp to be pretty interesting. He is frequently violent and angry and is, you know, a pimp, but he has some moments where he shows some actual sympathy for Darlene, and bonds with her over movies for a second before he goes back into Pimp Mode. Grey characters were a hallmark Simons other work, so I guess we will see where he goes from here. 

I wasn't in New York in the 70s (I was pretty busy not being alive yet) but if I was there, I feel like I would spend a LOT of time taking showers. So much grime!

[Jadzia]

I have been having a hard time getting in to this show so today I told one of my friends "I think I am going to drop The Deuce". Then proceeded to giggle like a 10 year old.

[kieyra]

I'm kind of trying to get through this, but struggling. (I loved Treme, so it's not a David Simon problem.)

Quick question, and I'm sure this has been brought up or observed by others: what is with these actors in "prestige" dramas doing dual rules? Like Ewan McGregor in Fargo. Are they all jealous of Tatianna Maslany or something? Is this the new bar that has to be reached? It just confuses and annoys me, because 1) they are not Tatianna Maslany, 2) "twins" just isn't anywhere near as interesting as "clones". 

[Lillith]

This episide was a bit "meh" for me, but not enough to stop watching. I'm still intrigued as to where the characters are all going.

Darlene is hands down my favorite character at the moment. She makes you root for her and she's got an innate goodness.  I liked her not ripping off her sleeping regular, even though you could tell she briefly considered it. 

I'm over Abby already. But am liking James Franco much more than I usually do. 

So we know Candy's mom knows what she does, but I wonder if we'll get the backstory on that at some point? The scenes showing her frustration and burnout from the life were lovely silent acting by Maggie Gyllenhaal. 

Ah the seedy NYC of my childhood, now $8 is a latte, not a share of the rent. 

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, Lillith said:

Darlene is hands down my favorite character at the moment. She makes you root for her and she's got an innate goodness.  I liked her not ripping off her sleeping regular, even though you could tell she briefly considered it. 

Nice contrast with the guy Abby slept with who took all her money.

2 hours ago, kieyra said:

Quick question, and I'm sure this has been brought up or observed by others: what is with these actors in "prestige" dramas doing dual rules? Like Ewan McGregor in Fargo. Are they all jealous of Tatianna Maslany or something? Is this the new bar that has to be reached? It just confuses and annoys me, because 1) they are not Tatianna Maslany, 2) "twins" just isn't anywhere near as interesting as "clones". 

I don't think the actors have anything to do with it. I haven't liked either of those either. Orphan Black had an obvious reason why it had to be one actress. On Fargo, iirc, the characters weren't even twins. On this show I admit there's times where I almost expect them to reveal that Frankie is a figment of Vincent's imagination or something and he's really got two personalities.

[EllisCarver]

I can get with Richie the Communist pimp being a running gag.

[Surrealist]

23 hours ago, Traveller519 said:

On the plus side, the environment is feeling very lived in, which is a Simon special. In the vastness of New York City, I'm getting a spacial feel for the neighborhood, and you can believe that all the characters are going to be inter-related. If everybody's settling into their surroundings, the plot should start to flow.

I've been enjoying this show, but it was a bit slow this week.

I agree with you about the environment. I think the set designer has done a phenomenal job with capturing the vibe of early 70's NYC. Like you, I have no problem seeing all of these characters interrelated.

I'm expecting the stories to start moving more quickly soon.

[Joimiaroxeu]

That Curtis Mayfield song is the best intro. It gets me hyped every time I watch this show.

Mildred Pierce. Joan Crawford at her best. It's great how the producers are subtly honoring classic movies.

In the early days of porn were there actually any woman directors? Seems like a no-brainer and probably would've kept a lot of the crime and degradation out of it.

Grateful Dead? In a pimps and johns bar? What kind of fool would've been looking for that, lol?

James Franco's obvious Emmy-baiting aside, I am enjoying this show even with the slow build-up. Funny, posters in the Snowfall forum had similar complaints about it not getting into the big crack-dealing action fast enough. I appreciate showrunners who take their time and don't rely on the usual easy cliches and tropes.

[Milburn Stone]

2 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

I appreciate showrunners who take their time and don't rely on the usual easy cliches and tropes.

I'm down with that, but one person's "not hitting the audience over the head" is another person's "please, just tap my head a little!" There are those who get everything Simon is going for at all times, and who can distinguish between what they're meant to get and what they know they're not meant to get yet. And then there's me.

[numbnut]

2 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

That Curtis Mayfield song is the best intro. It gets me hyped every time I watch this show.

IKR? It's perfect for the show, catchy and fresh, as it's not as well known as Mayfield's other stuff and hasn't been used in film/TV projects ad nauseam (I'm looking at you, Radiohead "Exit Music").

2 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

James Franco's obvious Emmy-baiting aside, I am enjoying this show even with the slow build-up. Funny, posters in the Snowfall forum had similar complaints about it not getting into the big crack-dealing action fast enough. I appreciate showrunners who take their time and don't rely on the usual easy cliches and tropes.

 

Interesting. I didn't watch Snowfall because the promos looked generic. If people are complaining about its in-depth characterizations, maybe I'll give it a shot.

[Gobi]

On 9/25/2017 at 8:28 AM, Milburn Stone said:

 

Thanks, @GussieK and @Rinaldo, for pointing out the connection between "the deuce" and the 2 in 42. I didn't make that connection. But now that I know that, I continue to think Simon intends the title to have layers, with one of those layers being the low value of the deuce card connoting the low value of the street.

The Deuce is often a Wild Card, as well.

[Gobi]

5 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

That Curtis Mayfield song is the best intro. It gets me hyped every time I watch this show.

Mildred Pierce. Joan Crawford at her best. It's great how the producers are subtly honoring classic movies.

In the early days of porn were there actually any woman directors? Seems like a no-brainer and probably would've kept a lot of the crime and degradation out of it.

There was a famous woman director of porn in the early days, although I think she just did soft core bondage movies. Can't remember her name.

Doris Wishman was her name. Started  with "nudies" and other soft core films, did some hardcore toward the end of her career. Sometimes used her second husband's name for the director credit.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Gobi
Content

[numbnut]

5 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

In the early days of porn were there actually any woman directors? Seems like a no-brainer and probably would've kept a lot of the crime and degradation out of it.

48 minutes ago, Gobi said:

There was a famous woman director of porn in the early days, although I think she just did soft core bondage movies. Can't remember her name.

Doris Wishman was her name. Started  with "nudies" and other soft core films, did some hardcore toward the end of her career. Sometimes used her second husband's name for the director credit.

According to this R29 article (http://www.refinery29.com/2017/08/170121/is-the-deuce-true-story-porn-stars#slide-3), Candy is based on two historical figures. One was a prominent member of the adult film industry, a woman named Candida Royalle. She began as a performer in adult films before pivoting into directing and producing. Her company, Femme Productions, made sensual, female-oriented videos that struck a contrast with the majority of hardcore content being produced. Pornography Producer Angie Rowntree told the New York Times that Royalle displayed “a commitment to the principle that women have the right to explore, enjoy and celebrate their sexuality, openly and proudly, without taking any kind of metaphorical back seat to men.”

Simon describes his other inspiration for Candy: “There was a Candy who was a part-time bartender at Vincent’s bar who actually started as a prostitute/street walker and was a little bit actualized, a little bit, by the politics she heard in the bar from Vincent’s girlfriend, but also had some preliminary involvement in the early days of porn.”

Edited September 26, 2017 by numbnut

[teddysmom]

On 9/25/2017 at 3:39 AM, thuganomics85 said:

 I wonder if we'll see David Krumholtz's character again.

Has he put on a lot of weight or was that a fat suit/prosthetics on his face? 

[sistermagpie]

On 9/25/2017 at 3:39 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Candy is finding it harder then expected to get into the moves.  I wonder if we'll see David Krumholtz's character again.

 

I don't have any spoilers, but I definitely think we will. I think he's going to be an important character.

7 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

Has he put on a lot of weight or was that a fat suit/prosthetics on his face? 

I remember seeing him on something recently where it looked like he had put on weight. It certainly looks right for the character!

[Rinaldo]

According to Alan Sepinwall, Krumholtz did gain a lot of weight in recent years, years during which he was (successfully, it seems) dealing with thyroid cancer. Anyway, he recently dropped the weight, as you can see in that article. Which will make for interesting continuity if The Deuce brings back his character after this season.

[sistermagpie]

6 minutes ago, Rinaldo said:

According to Alan Sepinwall, Krumholtz did gain a lot of weight in recent years, years during which he was (successfully, it seems) dealing with thyroid cancer. Anyway, he recently dropped the weight, as you can see in that article. Which will make for interesting continuity if The Deuce brings back his character after this season.

I had no idea, but I'm glad he's okay. And screw those judgmental dicks!

[Milburn Stone]

I'm very glad Krumholtz is OK, but for this part, I thought the look was perfect! Maybe next season they'll use prosthetics.

[Rinaldo]

Or they'll find a funny line about going on a diet that he can mutter in passing.

[Silly Angel]

OK, I've learned my lesson. If Frank Sobatka is involved in a subplot, I won't be able to understand it.

[SoothingDave]

I thought Krumholz was trying to look like Ron Jeremy

[planet17]

Just watched the episode. As a The Wire fan it was so nostalgic. To see David Simons creating this big inter-connected world so well, and slowly making me get to know all those characters and fall in love for them. Damn. This is going to be my new favorite show.

Also, I'm happy to see people here sharing smart and thoughtful comments. I was affraid to see a lot of slut shaming and sexism, given the context. I was an active member in IMDB, discussing shows like Mad Men, and there were so much misogyny in it. I'm happy that this is a different place.