S07.E06: Beyond the Wall

[Growsonwalls]

I think one of the issues is Sophie Turner's acting. She doesn't emote much besides snottiness and fear. I think a stronger actress could better convey the shades of gray that I think are meant to be part of Sansa's character. 

[DarkRaichu]

Just now, GrailKing said:

That was a very nice coat, my wife said she buy one.

Yep, I'd buy 1 for mine too

[dragonsbite]

12 minutes ago, that one guy said:

The other thing I realized is that, while I still think it's unlikely, I don't actually think it's impossible that this ends with some kind of White Walker victory. Because just  like at the end of Hardhome, we see that you don't defeat the Night King, you just escape him. Even if you come at him with three dragons and the fucking Hound.

Actually, it seems like they were setting up a confrontation between Jon and the Night King--pointing out that killing the NK destroys the entire army.  Jon certainly considered it when having that stare-down with the NK.

[Blonde Gator]

2 minutes ago, Drogo said:

The first rule of Faceless Men is you do not talk about Faceless Men. The second rule of FM is you don't talk about FM.

The third rule of FM is take better care of your damn faces, Arya. 

I want to see her wear Little Finger's face.  Which will mean he's dead.  Have her do/say something so impossibly crazy that the Vale Lords buy it.  "Lord Royce, I'm turning over my regency of Robin Arryn and the Command of ALL of the Vale Lords to you, because I have terminal cancer....So long, farewell, auf weidersein, goodbye!"  And watch him walk out of Winterfell, never to be seen again. 

And then Arya, when told what happened, says "Wait, What?".

[Oscirus]

So will Dany be able to kill one of her babies even if she knows that it's a walker or will she react like that badass woman in Hardhome did?

[GraceK]

2 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

So will Dany be able to kill one of her babies even if she knows that it's a walker or will she react like that badass woman in Hardhome did?

What is  wondering is will Drogon and Rhaegar be willing to fight him. They have a bond with Visersion, you saw their reaction to his death. They might not actually attacks him. 

Edited August 21, 2017 by GraceK

[Starchild]

Wow, Littlefinger's really lucky that Arya didn't actually answer Sansa's question about where she got the letter, huh?

[DarkRaichu]

8 minutes ago, sweetcookieface said:

I had to stifle a snort at that. So goofy. I'd find the whole Faceless Man thing more believable if it involved a glamor of sorts (kind of like the magic the Red Woman uses to obscure her older self).

But we were shown from Arya's training that the faceless man magic was more like practical tricks, different than LoF magic.   Arya may wear the mask but she still needs to act like the person she is copying

[screamin]

32 minutes ago, anamika said:

Wait. You are being actually serious?! So you think in that scene, Brienne would have rushed in and chopped off Arya's head with Oathbreaker?

And Sansa send her off to prevent that?!

No, I think if she saw her do that, she'd try to disarm her - but with Arya's skill and reflexes, she'd instinctively fight back instead of sensibly surrendering, and things could go dreadfully wrong. 

If Sansa told Brienne - quite truthfully - that Arya's been accusing her of treason and threatening her with a knife and refusing to believe ANY reassurance that she's NOT planning treachery, Brienne would believe her. She'd probably want to try to resolve it peacefully, but Arya has already said to Sansa that she wouldn't even accept Jon's reassurance that Sansa is trustworthy now - why in the world would she accept Brienne's?

Arya's been hubristic about her skills and currently seems bent on tormenting Sansa without any kind of end-game in mind. If LF drops another scrap of "evidence" of Sansa's supposed treachery in Arya's way, Arya's likely to lose her temper and do something else with a knife or Needle, or verbally threaten to kill her - both of which are grounds for arrest for treason against the regent. Brienne would try not to kill Arya while apprehending her, but if Arya fights back there's no guarantees.

Regardless, it won't really matter to LF if Arya is killed or simply put under arrest and her sentence commuted to imprisonment. Either way, she'll be out of the way - which is what LF wants. And as a bonus, he'll have a wedge he can drive between Jon and Sansa when and if Jon returns and gets upset about what happened with Arya.

Edited August 21, 2017 by screamin

[TaurusRose]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

I cringed at the way Sansa was bragging about Arya having to go to her knees and thank her for winning the battle of the bastards. LF got the Vale army there thanks to his creepy obsession with Sansa's looks and her Stark name. Sansa did nothing to earn that victory - rather by not telling Jon about the presence of that army she was responsible for a lot of people dying trying to win WF for her. And no acknowledgement for all those Wildlings and Wun Wun who broke through Winterfell's doors and died for Jon - the Jon who actively won them over with his actions and not just his name or looks. 

And then she sends Brienne off because LF suggests that she could intercede between Arya and herself? Why is she confiding all this to LF in the first place? Why not discuss with Brienne who has shown herself to be trustworthy and ask her to go talk to Arya? 

THIS. Sansa is so full of herself I wanted to slap her annoying face. She has no loyalty and talks out of both sides of her mouth. If she really had no use for Littlefinger, he'd be gone; but instead he's her closest confidant. Jon would have been better off leaving Davos at Winterfell to act in his absence rather than his sketchy so-called half-sister. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing Arya assume her identity and clean house, but that would probably really upset Jon.

As for her treatment of Brienne, shades of her bitch mother. She thinks everyone is beneath and she's been really ungrateful to  Brienne. At this point, I almost don't care about what happens to the Starks or Winterfell all because of Sansa.  

I hated losing Viserion. Dragons crying out in pain stab at my heart.  RIP Uncle Benjen.

I want the Night King and Littlefinger dead.  They've inched ahead of Cersei this week.

Those were some gnarly looking wounds on Jon. I would have thought they'd be less ugly by now. 

The previews for next week leave a lot to be desired.  

Edited August 21, 2017 by taurusrose

[SimoneS]

17 minutes ago, sweetcookieface said:

I'd find the whole Faceless Man thing more believable if it involved a glamor of sorts (kind of like the magic the Red Woman uses to obscure her older self).

I think that is exactly what it is. The magic and glamor comes from putting on the face. 

2 minutes ago, taurusrose said:

Those were some gnarly looking wounds on Jon. I would have thought they'd be less ugly by now. 

I thought the same thing. Guess, no one thought to stitch them up.

Edited August 21, 2017 by SimoneS

[GrailKing]

1 hour ago, Oscirus said:

Im probably on the unpopular side of things but the quieter scenes did more for me than the hunt did.

I loved Dany and Tyrions talk, and I love that Tyrion wasn't the only one laying down lessons in that talk

That Arya Sansa scene might've worked tension wise if this show didn't go out of our way to show us that Arya's not a psycho.

Who sent Sansa that letter, I doubt it was anybody in Dany's group. Is Sansa really being hunted? 

The wight hunt felt much too western for my liking.

 

R.IP baby viserion.

Cersei, as Sansa said if Cersei wanted another Stark hostage, she can come and get her.

[screamin]

10 minutes ago, stagmania said:

Absolutely none of this was expressed or even implied as being part of Sansa's thought process. If you want to twist logic into pretzels trying to find a way for her to be the good guy here, go for it, but you probably shouldn't expect others to agree.

As I said earlier, none of us are actually privy to what Sansa is thinking. All we can do is guess based on what she says and does. If you see an actual flaw in my logic, by all means point it out instead of just commenting in general that I'm twisting logic into pretzels, which doesn't tell me what you think the problem is.

[stagmania]

Just now, screamin said:

As I said earlier, none of us are actually privy to what Sansa is thinking. All we can do is guess based on what she says and does. If you see an actual flaw in my logic, by all means point it out instead of just commenting in general that I'm twisting logic into pretzels, which doesn't tell me what you think the problem is.

The problem is that I prefer to discuss the show as it appears on my screen, where you appear to prefer inventing something else to discuss. I believe we're at an impasse, so I'll leave it there. 

[Blonde Gator]

2 minutes ago, taurusrose said:

THIS. Sansa is so full of herself I wanted to slap her annoying face. She has no loyalty and talks out of both sides of her mouth. If she really had no use for Littlefinger, he'd be gone; but instead he's her closest confidant. Jon would have been better off leaving Davos at Winterfell to act in his absence rather than his sketchy so-called half-sister. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing Arya assume her identity and clean house, but that would probably really upset Jon.

As for her treatment of Brienne, shades of her bitch mother. She thinks everyone is beneath and she's been really ungrateful to  Brienne. At this point, I almost don't care about what happens to the Starks or Winterfell all because of Sansa. 

I suspect Arya's giving Sansa a raft of shit because of Sansa's always present holier-than-thou attitude.  Arya's trying to take Sansa down a peg, and make Sansa understand and respect that fact that Arya is no longer a little sister to be trifled with.   Further, that Arya chose her own way, and she's never going to tolerate any flack from Sansa about doing "what's expected".    She had to put up with it from her parents, but she has put Sansa on notice not to go there.

It will be interesting to see (although I'm sure we'll have to wait a year) to see how Jon and Arya get on.  Sansa really never got on with any of her siblings, particularly the younger ones, and I think Robb was probably the only one she deigned to tolerate.  (RIP Robb and Rickon). 

[Francie]

So when I binge watched this show last summer, everyone said, "Any major character can go at any time," and "Don't get too attached." And we've made it through the penultimate show this season, and I've seen nothing but hanger ons and peons bite it. An old lady and two (presumably three) sand snakes.  A whole bunch of Frey men I'd never seen before. And Sam's dad who we've seen once or twice before and his recast brother.  Where are the stakes?  Six out of the seven Magnificent Seven made it? Seriously?  Man, this show sure has wimped out in its older age. 

[GrailKing]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

I was reminded of when he wanted Joffery, a child, to lead the army against Stannis. Yet here he is advising Daenerys, a grown woman, a queen who rides dragons, to stay hidden back the walls. They are ruining Tyrion and I don't understand why.

conflict  of the Heart.

Family even bad family IS family, or a Stranger who may or not be what he hopes to be?

[crowceilidh]

I also thought Jon was resurrected again.  That was a long time to stay in freezing water.

[dragonsbite]

1 hour ago, Avaleigh said:

The fact that Dany isn't willing to discuss or consider a plan just in case she dies tells me that she doesn't have all of the maturity or selflessness that one would hope for from a leader. It's kind of essential to have a 'just in case' game plan. 

Tyrion wasn't insisting on marriage at all although that would be on the table. He was suggesting alternative plans. Dany wasn't interested in discussing options because she doesn't want to have to think about the unpleasant topic of her eventual death even though it's something that every monarch has to contemplate. I wonder if Dany's worried that Tyrion wants the job.

THIS.  It shows that Jon is more likely to be the last king standing. With all the talk of Dany having the armies and the dragons, they're laying the groundwork for Dany to conquer Westeros and break the wheel. But she won't be the one carrying the torch in the end. It'll be Jon. He's the one who makes connections with people, who sees the real problem and does what it takes to resolve it - no matter the cost to himself. Yes, he makes some dumb decisions (like hunting a wight) and yet those decisions end up making more and more people loyal to him. Or at least getting those people to understand and believe in his cause.

As for the discussion about the succession, it seemed like Dany wanted to know whether Tyrion was angling for being named as her successor. I doubt that he was, but you never know if deep down he might want that job. Then again, he knows how much of a problem it would be and is smart enough to avoid that headache. (I've always preferred to be the person behind the person in charge.) He's right to want her to think about these things, and she's probably justifiably ignoring it. No one wants to think that much about their death -- much less talk about it (unless they Jon or Beric). However, the purpose of the scene once again goes back to, if she can't have children, who will be her successor. With the foreshadowing being Jon.

 

I should probably point out that I'm neither for nor against a Jon-Dany relationship.

[henripootel]

20 minutes ago, GraceK said:

I'm also seriously annoyed that  when it comes down to it, they went on this ridiculous Wight hunt and lost Viserion purely to convince CERSI about the WW threat. Why is she even a factor?

I really want to love this show but this all made no fucking sense, and the characters should know better.  There's no reason to believe Cercie would give two shits about any external threat more than Dani, or that A wight would convince her that there are an army of them, or that this is an immediate threat to her.  Let the WWs take out her problem to the north, then she'll care.  Till then her only path forward lies in killing Dani, in any way possible.  

Also, I don't think they need Cercie, or her armies, nor is leaving her as a threat in their rear tenable.  Burn King's Landing and Cercie, then face the threat from the North.

Don't get me started about the unfrozen lake north of the goddamn wall, nor the plan to capture one wight (when they only come in droves), nor the fact that Arya and Sansa should both be having a good laugh over how naïve they both were back in season one, not threatening each other over it.  Come on, Show, you're making this harder than you need to. 

[that one guy]

1 hour ago, SeanC said:

It also doesn't sound like Sansa even knew about this meeting, since she says she hadn't heard from Jon in weeks and had no idea where he was.

It was only after reading your comment that I realized what meeting she's talking about. The letter is from Dany or Tyrion, it's the big Dragonpit meeting re: the wight, and John is a dick for not telling Sansa about this plan. And the reason she hasn't heard from him is he knows damn well she's going to say, "Jon, that plan is crazy and stupid. Please don't do that. Both the Night King and Cersei want to kill us. Your plan involves walking up to both of them and provoking them. That's not a good plan." So he's avoiding her. Next thing that happens, since the Hound left before Jon returned, the Hound shows up at Winterfell and tells the Stark sisters (the only actual friends he's ever had so I'm sure he's going that way) that their brother fell through the ice and died.

Edited August 21, 2017 by that one guy

[VCRTracking]

Littlefinger is manipulating Sansa and Arya effectively and in different ways.

On the one hand I wish Sansa would trust Brienne because she has more than earned it. On the other I'm glad she's doesn't her consider a totally devoted underling only loyal to her. Despite what people think, she's not arrogant to expect that.  She knows Brienne swore an oath to her mother not to her.

[MrsR]

I don't drink but I'm tossing one back tonight to salute Thoros. RIP you drunken bastard. Hope Mellisandre shows up soon so we don't lose Lord Sexy Voice.

Ahhh Viserion. So awful. I don't believe we've seen a parent confront their wighted child. Will their connection overcome the wightness. Cause otherwise one of the good guys will have to kill Viserion. Again. Don't know if I can take that.

I love the Les Miz chains that appeared  in the middle of Iceland. That Night King is one resourceful bastard.

[screamin]

4 minutes ago, Blonde Gator said:

I suspect Arya's giving Sansa a raft of shit because of Sansa's always present holier-than-thou attitude.  Arya's trying to take Sansa down a peg, and make Sansa understand and respect that fact that Arya is no longer a little sister to be trifled with.   Further, that Arya chose her own way, and she's never going to tolerate any flack from Sansa about doing "what's expected".    She had to put up with it from her parents, but she has put Sansa on notice not to go there.

It will be interesting to see (although I'm sure we'll have to wait a year) to see how Jon and Arya get on.  Sansa really never got on with any of her siblings, particularly the younger ones, and I think Robb was probably the only one she deigned to tolerate.  (RIP Robb and Rickon). 

I really think that going up to your sister with a knife and talking about cutting her face off goes a little beyond  "making Sansa understand and respect that fact that Arya is no longer a little sister to be trifled with." She's already made up her mind that Sansa is a traitor, refuses to listen to anything she has to say, and even says she knows Jon wouldn't have such a harsh opinion of Sansa and she doesn't care. 

[Oscirus]

3 minutes ago, dragonsbite said:

As for the discussion about the succession, it seemed like Dany wanted to know whether Tyrion was angling for being named as her successor. I doubt that he was, but you never know if deep down he might want that job. Then again, he knows how much of a problem it would be and is smart enough to avoid that headache. (I've always preferred to be the person behind the person in charge.) He's right to want her to think about these things, and she's probably justifiably ignoring

Tyrion's never once shown an inclination towards wanting her job, hell he was left alone in Mereen and he never once angled for her job. I believe he likes doing his job from the shadows where he's not seen.

[Starchild]

I love how the Hound couldn't believe that Brienne would go for a guy like Tormund.

[Avaleigh]

2 minutes ago, taurusrose said:

THIS. Sansa is so full of herself I wanted to slap her annoying face. She has no loyalty and talks out of both sides of her mouth. If she really had no use for Littlefinger, he'd be gone; but instead he's her closest confidant. Jon would have been better off leaving Davos at Winterfell to act in his absence rather than his sketchy so-called half-sister. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing Arya assume her identity and clean house, but that would probably really upset Jon.

As for her treatment of Brienne, shades of her bitch mother. She thinks everyone is beneath and she's been really ungrateful to  Brienne. At this point, I almost don't care about what happens to the Starks or Winterfell all because of Sansa.  

I hated losing Viseryas. Dragons crying out in pain stab at my heart.  RIP Uncle Benjen.

I want the Night King and Littlefinger dead.  They've inched ahead of Cersei this week.

Those were some gnarly looking wounds on Jon. I would have thought they'd be less ugly by now. 

The previews for next week leave a lot to be desired.  

She totally misrepresented what happened at the Battle of the Bastards. Sansa still doesn't own up to the fact that she withheld vital information that might have ended up saving people's lives. We'll never know how it would have gone had she trusted Jon. 

You'd have thought that Sansa was out there fighting by the way that she was telling Arya to get on her knees in gratitude. Sansa wasn't even successful when it came to negotiating with the northern lords. She gave Lyanna Mormont some false flattery and got her empty compliments thrown back in her fact. Davos actually made decent and persuasive arguments to the northerners when they were trying to get help and Sansa was totally dismissive of that. This episode made it seem like she feels that she's made more of a contribution than Jon has and I'm just thinking 'In what universe?'

I don't recall Catelyn treating Brienne so rudely. I feel like Catelyn and Ned would both have unhappy with Sansa in that scene. 

1 minute ago, that one guy said:

It was only after reading your comment that I realized what meeting she's talking about. The letter is from Dany or Tyrion, it's the big Dragonpit meeting re: the wight, and John is a dick for not telling Sansa about this plan. And the reason she hasn't heard from him is he knows damn well she's going to say, "Jon, that plan is crazy and stupid. Please don't do that. Both the Night King and Cersei want to kill us. You plan involves walking up to both of them and provoking them. That's not a good plan." So he's avoiding her. Next thing that happens, since the Hound left before Jon returned, the Hound shows up at Winterfell and tells the Stark sisters (the only actual friends he's ever had so I'm sure he's going that way) that their brother fell through the ice and died.

Fair point that Jon sucks for not writing to Sansa in weeks (really?) to let her know what's going on. I can see him not getting into specifics about the plan to capture a wight but at least let her know that a plan is in place, he's working on it, and he's made progress in terms of the alliance with Dany. It's totally stupid to continually leave the person you left in charge in the dark the way that he's done. 

[Ottis]

1 hour ago, Avaleigh said:

The fact that Dany isn't willing to discuss or consider a plan just in case she dies tells me that she doesn't have all of the maturity or selflessness that one would hope for from a leader. It's kind of essential to have a 'just in case' game plan. 

Tyrion wasn't insisting on marriage at all although that would be on the table. He was suggesting alternative plans. Dany wasn't interested in discussing options because she doesn't want to have to think about the unpleasant topic of her eventual death even though it's something that every monarch has to contemplate. I wonder if Dany's worried that Tyrion wants the job.

No, Dany is worried anyone might want her job. It's the genetic madness. Another sign of her imbalance. Tyrion was dropping anvils.

[Chris24601]

5 minutes ago, Francie said:

So when I binge watched this show last summer, everyone said, "Any major character can go at any time," and "Don't get too attached." And we've made it through the penultimate show this season, and I've seen nothing but hanger ons and peons bite it. An old lady and two (presumably three) sand snakes.  A whole bunch of Frey men I'd never seen before. And Sam's dad who we've seen once or twice before and his recast brother.  Where are the stakes?  Six out of the seven Magnificent Seven made it? Seriously?  Man, this show sure has wimped out in its older age. 

That's because Martin's reputation in that regard is overblown. Ned was never the main character, he was Obi-Wan in ANH. Robb was never the big hero meant to avenge his father; he was Han Solo if they'd actually had the guts to kill him off in Empire like they'd originally planned.

Of the viewpoint characters in the first book only Ned and Cat (i.e. the parents) have actually died. Every other original viewpoint character, all kids and the youngest of the Lannister adults is still alive and kicking.

The dirty little secret of "Game of Thrones" is that Martin is actually a terribly conventional writer; he's just better at dressing things up so its less obvious than most.

[screamin]

1 hour ago, Oscirus said:

I believe this was supposed to be some sort of tense scene where we should be worried about Sansa's safety. unfortunately they killed all that momentum with their season opening scene.

Which scene do you mean?

[Couver]

1 hour ago, dragonsbite said:

THIS.  It shows that Jon is more likely to be the last king standing. With all the talk of Dany having the armies and the dragons, they're laying the groundwork for Dany to conquer Westeros and break the wheel. But she won't be the one carrying the torch in the end. It'll be Jon. He's the one who makes connections with people, who sees the real problem and does what it takes to resolve it - no matter the cost to himself. Yes, he makes some dumb decisions (like hunting a wight) and yet those decisions end up making more and more people loyal to him. Or at least getting those people to understand and believe in his cause.

 

To me this episode showed that Dany is more than willing to do exactly those things as well. The stakes and loss were actually higher for her.

I think the show is trying and perhaps not so successful drawing parallels between the two would be leaders. Missandei noted a few episodes ago that Dany got her followers because they believe in her. Just as the Northern lords believe in Jon.

Now that both of them are working together they should be an unstoppable force.

[Oscirus]

2 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

Fair point that Jon sucks for not writing to Sansa in weeks (really?) to let her know what's going on. I can see him not getting into specifics about the plan to capture a wight but at least let her know that a plan is in place, he's working on it, and he's made progress in terms of the alliance with Dany. It's totally stupid to continually leave the person you left in charge in the dark the way that he's done. 

Now that y'all mention it, why doesn't anybody assume that Jon's taken prisoner or worse? If I didn't hear anything from my leader who put himself into a dangerous situation, I'd assume the worst. Technically, I'd guess that they know now that Jon was seen at east watch, but before that?

[Blonde Gator]

6 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

Littlefinger is manipulating Sansa and Arya effectively and in different ways.

On the one hand I wish Sansa would trust Brienne because she has more than earned it. On the other I'm glad she's doesn't her consider a totally devoted underling only loyal to her. Despite what people think, she's not arrogant to expect that.  She knows Brienne swore an oath to her mother not to her.

Brienne swore an oath to Catelyn Stark to protect her girls. 

Once Brienne found Sansa after the leap from the Walls of Winterfell, she also swore an oath directly to Sansa (Theon was there, and had to help Sansa with her part of the Knight's vows, to always welcome the knight at her table).   Of course, that doesn't lessen Brienne's vow to protect Arya as well. 

[GrailKing]

1 hour ago, Happy Harpy said:

You do NOT talk to Brienne of Tarth as if she was a piece of dirt under the sole of your shoe. 

You were quite happy to be "minded" when she saved you from your evil husband Ramsay's good men.

Oh, and remember how you ended-up married to evil  Ramsay? Yes, when you sent Brienne away and chose to keep Littlefinger close.

STFU Sansa.

You will if you value that persons life as you value yours, it's harsh but She has reasons, Brieene would be faced with a terrible choice .

What would you rather have ? a woman sad for being talked to roughly, or a woman so honored bound she likely fall on her own sword after being forced to fight a child?

Terrible choice for Sansa too, she's putting her trust in a sister that has shown unwarranted animosity since she's been back and has dead people's faces.

[Blonde Gator]

9 minutes ago, screamin said:

I really think that going up to your sister with a knife and talking about cutting her face off goes a little beyond  "making Sansa understand and respect that fact that Arya is no longer a little sister to be trifled with." She's already made up her mind that Sansa is a traitor, refuses to listen to anything she has to say, and even says she knows Jon wouldn't have such a harsh opinion of Sansa and she doesn't care. 

I'm not going to get into another argument with you about Sansa.  I know you're a Sansa Shipper.  I wish they'd kill her off already.  We're just going to have to agree to disagree about "Lady Stark".

[KaleyFirefly]

The Hound throwing rocks at the wights….not a great idea.

Poor Viserion, I felt so sad seeing him slide into the water (that was a really cool special effect though). And we all knew that his eye would be blue at the end.

Sansa & Arya -- ugh this plotline. Both of them were annoying (Sansa being mean to Brienne; Arya being awfully mean to Sansa). Every time the scene left the Wall and went back to Winterfell I thought Nooooooo! I want to see the zombies instead!

So glad Gendry survived! I guess he sent the fastest raven in Westeros, because it covered that distance in no time!

Loved Beric with his flaming sword and I was glad to see the Hound rescue Tormund because I thought, it would be just like this show to kill him off after he talked of his love for Brienne. (Although now Brienne is going to run into Jamie again...)

[Oscirus]

1 minute ago, screamin said:

Which scene do you mean?

Sorry for the confusion. The scene between the two sisters where Arya advances upon her with a knife was supposed to feel tense because we were wondering if she'd stab her sister, however, her stoapping that Frey woman from drinking the poison at the beginning of the season shows us that she's not a remorseless psycopath that kills without thinking.

[screamin]

Just now, Blonde Gator said:

I'm not going to get into another argument with you about Sansa.  I know you're a Sansa Shipper.  I wish they'd kill her off already.  We're just going to have to agree to disagree about "Lady Stark".

Fine, I'll just talk to my own sister about cutting off her face with a knife the next time she disses me about something, since it's obviously within the normal range of acceptable human behavior and I just never realized it till now.

[Chris24601]

Just now, Ottis said:

No, Dany is worried anyone might want her job. It's the genetic madness. Another sign of her imbalance. Tyrion was dropping anvils.

Indeed. Between last week's "Dany WILL win the war" from Tyrion and Dany tonight refusing to discuss heirs until she gets the crown its plain as day she's not going to win or live to rule either.

They also made a huge point of her impulsiveness again and now she's got a target she hates more than even Cersei because this one killed one of her children. My hunch is Dany's going to end up getting a bunch of people killed because she's more focused on revenge than the collateral damage.

Also worth noting in this regard... the Night King walked right through dragon fire on the ground and it flickered out and died just like any other fire. I have a sneaking suspicion that the dragons are going to prove worthless against the Night King himself (though they will be useful in clearing a path or bringing down the wight dragon for someone like Jon to reach him.

[anamika]

How does genius masterplayer Sansa know that Jaime will protect Brienne? Does she know what's happening down south, considering she has no idea what's happening with Jon. What if Jaime had been killed in the field of fire 2.0.

So she's risking Brienne's life and sending her off to meet with Cersei on the assumption that Jaime is going to be around? Why even send her off in the first place if Cersei is so untrustworthy according to her?

And did Cersei really send that letter or was that LF forging a fake letter to get Brienne out of the way? Because, I am not sure I understand why Cersei invites Sansa to KL when a meeting has been set up between her, Dany and the KITN.

[The Kings Foot]

So is the Night King the third head of the dragon? Does it mean that he is a secret Targaryan? ? 

 

Will he be the true Ice of this song? The one Dany must marry to bring peace? 

[GrailKing]

1 hour ago, mac123x said:

The one bright spot in the continuing stupidity in Winterfell was Sansa calling the other northern lords a bunch of weather vanes.  Truer words have never been spoken.  The rest of her interactions with Arya and Littlefinger were just asinine. 

 

I seriously can't tell them apart.

V, Rhaegal is alive, ( that ones Jon's )

[Lemuria]

Quote

Catching a whitewalker was an incredibly stupid plan!

I keep hearing this but I haven't heard any viable alternatives.  A lot of "Well, they don't need to convince Cersei," but no decent other options.  A flyover with her dragons?  And how does that not risk a dragon falling to the NK's spear the same way?  Clearly, he was gunning for a dragon.  

Then there was:  Grab a corpse and wait for it to turn into a wight.  To paraphrase Han Solo, "It doesn't work that way!"  

Was convincing Cersei important?  Yes, especially as Dany, while she had come to believe in the WWs, still didn't believe they were so dangerous that she had to leave Dragonstone and CR for Cersei to take.  She knows better now, and there's always the chance that Cersei will recognize that her survival as well as that of the people she'd like to have around to rule depends on stopping the NK.  And who knows?  There might even be a maester there who can get the word back to the idiots in Oldtown.

So in the absence of any genuinely better plans, this is all they had.  And it wasn't stupid.  Incredibly risky, yes.  Very dangerous, yes.  But the only game in town.  (And a thank you to everyone who beat me to the punch and pointed out that, no, it wasn't Jon's plan, it was Tyrion's.  So if you think it's stupid--and I really think it was the only chance of convincing Westeros of the threat--please don't point the finger at Jon.)

Besides, as Gimli said:  "Certainty of death.  Small chance of success.  What are we waiting for?"

 

I did like the conversations between the various members of the Snowicide Squad.  Some of it was funny--poor Gendry, though I loved Jon's smile at what Tormund was saying--and some of it was very interesting, in particular, the discussion between Jon and Beric.  Oh, and SC--maybe this will teach you not to willy-nilly (I believe that's Nissa Nissa's brother) throw stones.

 

Quote

 And yeah, where did they get those chains?  I don't think the Children or the Freefolk left them laying around...

Maybe from all those empty castles along the wall that the NW was no longer able to man?

 

I'm hoping that this is a set-up between Arya and Sansa to nail LF.  Otherwise, Arya's a total wacko and Sansa's a total idiot. I mean, making LF her only confidante and advisor, after saying that a person would have to be a fool to trust him?  I know that the threatening conversation appeared to be private but I'm hoping that they both believe that LF could find a way to spy on them and they're playing it to the hilt no matter where they are (they probably wouldn't want to play it out in public and end up with everyone in the castle taking sides).  And that Sansa sent Brienne away so that Brienne didn't try to stop the "conflict" between them, which also might explain why she was so snotty to Brienne; she needed to make sure Brienne left.

Otherwise...what a mess.

[henripootel]

12 minutes ago, Couver said:

Now that both of them are working together they should be an unstoppable force.

Not if they don't start showing some sense.  Cercei will never support Dani's claim to the throne, not ever.  Even if she is persuaded that there's a monumental threat from the WWs, she's far more likely to let them wipe out Dani and Jon, then hope for the best.  I know that's ultimately crazy but at least she dies with her ass parked on the iron throne, the other way she just dies, or worse, is no longer queen. 

Also - Jon, dragon-glass tipped arrows.  Legolas would have ended the whole problem from that range but not everyone can shoot like an elf.  So get 1000 archers and rain arrows on the Night King.  It only takes one. 

Edited August 21, 2017 by henripootel

[SimoneS]

6 hours ago, dragonsbite said:

THIS.  It shows that Jon is more likely to be the last king standing. With all the talk of Dany having the armies and the dragons, they're laying the groundwork for Dany to conquer Westeros and break the wheel. But she won't be the one carrying the torch in the end. It'll be Jon. He's the one who makes connections with people, who sees the real problem and does what it takes to resolve it - no matter the cost to himself. Yes, he makes some dumb decisions (like hunting a wight) and yet those decisions end up making more and more people loyal to him. Or at least getting those people to understand and believe in his cause.

So basically Jon is a shit ruler who endangers the lives of people who follow him, getting them killed needlessly. As he gets his people killed and he replaces them with new people who pledge their loyalty and he gets them killed needlessly. No wonder he needs Daenerys' armies and dragons. Hopefully, now that he has pledged his loyalty to her, she stops listening to his and Tyrion's harebrained schemes so she can continue to keep her people alive. She needs much better military advisors. Hopefully, Jorah and Grey Worm will regain their wits next season.

Edited August 21, 2017 by SimoneS

[VCRTracking]

I have always been an Arya fan but she was acting like a PSYCHO this episode. As I said in an earlier episode thread, Sansa probably deserved to be called out but the way she did it was disturbing. People going on about Sansa being rude to Brienne. Arya was calmly and coldly telling her own sister she was going to cut off and wear her face! Deliberately frightening her and enjoying it!  This isn't her avenging her family against the Freys. I'm not going to root for her this time. Telling that heartwarming story about Ned for the punchline that it was Sansa's fault he died? WTF? She knew even Jon would be more understanding about the letter. Arya doesn't care that turning the lords against Sansa would hurt Jon too. Arya despises Sansa not for her snobby attitude.  She despises her for being "weak" and I think that's why some fans hate her too.

Edited August 21, 2017 by VCRTracking

[screamin]

5 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

Sorry for the confusion. The scene between the two sisters where Arya advances upon her with a knife was supposed to feel tense because we were wondering if she'd stab her sister, however, her stoapping that Frey woman from drinking the poison at the beginning of the season shows us that she's not a remorseless psycopath that kills without thinking.

Well, I do think Sansa had a point when she said that Arya would kill her if she really thought she was a threat to Jon - and Arya seems to be warning Sansa against being that (though it's hard to say just WHAT Arya thinks she's doing). I don't think Arya is currently at the point of being capable of kinslaying...and I don't think Sansa really believes Arya is either, or else she wouldn't have stood still while Arya walked up to her with the knife. If she really felt Arya was an imminent threat, she has the authority to order Arya arrested and put in a cell - and with the weird evidence in Arya's room she'd have a lot to back up her claim that Arya threatened her as a justification for imprisoning her. She didn't do that.

[RedheadZombie]

1 hour ago, GrailKing said:

Arya scared the shit out of Sansa, but Sansa must have won the game of faces, her sister gave her the dagger.

The reason, to me: remove Brieene so LF can't use her, a risk for Sansa, maybe a move LF won't expect.

I'm hoping the point of Brienne's absence will be the Stark girls being forced to rely on each other.  Perhaps in the delightful task of killing LF. I just can't bear this distrust going into next season. We just saw a group of men from all walks of life band together for a common purpose.  Yet two females, sisters at that, cannot put their differences aside for the common purpose of protecting what's left of their family?  It's the old stereotype that women are too jealous and petty to work together.  Plus it perpetuates the Sansa versus Arya debate in fandom.  I root for them both. 

[Colorful Mess]

I keep coming back to Varys' words to Tyrion, "You need to find a way to make her listen" in the last ep.

Something is just really off with that scene, because here we have Tyrion using reverse psychology on Dany ("do nothing!"), making her think about heirs while the same time he's telling her that Jon is giving her longing looks (since when?)

My spec is that the wight hunt was about convincing Dany, and Cersei was just secondary collateral. Tyrion found a way to make her listen. But at the cost of empowering the enemy. 

Edited August 21, 2017 by Colorful Mess

[britesongs]

21 minutes ago, KaleyFirefly said:

The Hound throwing rocks at the wights….not a great idea.

I was highly amused at first. Like he was so bored and frustrated that he was going to fuck around knocking bits off with rocks. But then the second one fell short and shit backfired in a bad, bad way. So, nope. Not a great idea at all. 

WHY THE HELL didn't everyone have dragon glass weapons? If that's the only other way to kill a WW besides Valyrian steel, they should have brought some of those weapons with them. Were they all too attached to their usual weapons or something? Who knows who would have had a crack at a WW? In the polar bear fight, Jon was the only one who could fight the WW and kill him. Dumbasses.

I hope they at least left some at Eastwatch and sent more to Castle Black since they had been mining for a bit.

Okay, did we see the contents of the scroll Sansa got requesting she visit KL? I know she talks about Cersei in reference to it, but I don't recall whether she specifically said it was from her. I initially thought it was a fake from Littlefinger. But then a few other comments implied maybe it was for the White Walker/Wight Summit, and that would be weird for Cersei to have sent it. The timing for everything this season is so jacked up that I don't know whether enough time would have elapsed for someone to send her a summons to discuss the WW with everyone else. Plus, Jon will be there, so she shouldn't be needed.

So yeah, I think I still believe it was from Littlefinger. Not wedded to that conclusion, but everything else makes less sense at the moment.

Edited August 21, 2017 by britesongs
I had more thoughts.