S07.E05: Eastwatch

[The Kings Foot]

26 minutes ago, Francie said:

Olenna, as the leader of a house and a region, had no authority to align with Daenerys. It would be like the governor of New York aligning with Albania to come attack the United States.   So, sticking with your country and not following your governor and some invader from Albania -- even if that invader was born in the U.S. -- is not treason.

Olenna was only the Queen of Thorns. Not the Queen of Westeros.

Somehow I think Dany was referring to Queen Margery and thier aligning with her murderer.

[Misplaced]

Just on a re-watch and paying more attention to the Jaime/Cersei scene than the first time round, because, ugh Cersei you really have got boring.  

Anyway as Jaime walks in, there's this little dialogue buried in the background:
Qyburn: I could give you something.

Cersei: That won't be necessary. 

So something's going on with her....either pregnancy, or menopause, or even a stomach tumour.  She's not making SOMETHING up, we just might not know what it is.

Second, there's this great line:
Cersei: Do you think anything of importance happens in this city without me knowing? 

Me: WELL GENDRY'S BEEN HANGIN' OUT FOR YEARS AND YOU DIDN'T KNOW THAT!!!

Yes, I was shouting at the screen.

Also, her little Targaryen moment at the end re announcing twincest and brother-sister marriage&kids...it rather forcibly draws the parallel with Dany.  Eh, old news.

Edited August 15, 2017 by Misplaced
Subject-verb agreement!

[Tikichick]

Cersei blew up the Sept to insure that she never answered to another authority again.  If Tommen yielded to her authority, fine.  If not, Tommen would remain under her house arrest.

[GrailKing]

18 minutes ago, RandyRanderson said:

Was the blacksmith Gendry apprenticed under one of the few who knew how to reforge valyrian steel?  I thought that might come up when Gendry went into the dragonglass mine.  At the very least Winterfell or Castle Black could use him as a smith.

Not to mention Jamie mentioning a Stark girl should marry a blacksmith in book.

So a Stark Baratheon match is being hinted at, whether it happens or not (shrug ) 

[Andromeda]

16 hours ago, Paradigm14 said:

I actually think Qyburn and Cersei are wrong and she's on her change.

So missed Gendry and Davos together. *Sigh*

Or maybe she has a tumor... Not that I want cancer to kill her instead of someone she's wronged!

As for Jon being a rightful heir, it depends on whether people recognize the annulment. Some monarchies sure didn't. Since Rhaegar had legitimate children with his first wife, the line should go through those children (if they are alive in this version of the universe). 

In any case, Jon would need to be recognized by the powers that be to make any kind of claim on the throne. (Reminds me of the Perkin Warbeck situation in England.)

But I'm sure he will be, since it's in the story.

And Rhaegar sure is a shit. I doubt the Dornish would see the first marriage to their own Elia as illegitimate (which is what annulment does, rather than divorce where the marriage is recognized as legitimate).

[Blonde Gator]

Just rewatched the episode.

One of Dany's big Dothraki leaders is now riding Randyll Tarly's beautiful dapple gray stallion.  Fabulous horse.  Smart Dothraki. 

And I just love the tall, dark and silent Dothraki always lurking around with their huge arakh weapons, beards, long pony-tails and furs.  They are so quiet, but add so much. 

[KungFuBunny]

So somehow Tyrion meets up with Bronn to arrange the secret meet with Jaime.

So did Danerys & Tyrion know that Bronn and Jaime survived and made it back to KL?

Also wouldn't Danerys want Bronn dead as he tried to kill Drogo?

Cersei knows about the secret meeting because the mad scientists little birds told him. She could have easily had Tyrion killed and stuck her response for a greet with Danerys on Tyrion's severed head. She has always hated Tyrion and resents Jaime's love for him. Jaime would not have needed to know that Tyrion was dead.

[henripootel]

Quote

Obsidian/dragonglass is going to make great arrow heads and spear tips.

Yeah, but are we sure they're gonna do much against the dead?  If I recall from Hardhome, John's Valarian steel sword (which shatters White Walkers) cut up the dead pretty much like any other sharp blade.  

And why bother?  If the dead really are walking in echelon, great.  Dany should be able to find them easily enough leading her 3 dragons.  I'd say a couple of passes to make sure, but she should be able to incinerate them all fairly efficiently.  Back to Dragonstone in time for dinner, and now we have a real talk about Cercie.  Really want to see what dragonfire does to a White Walker - I'm imagining ice turds falling out of armor as she approaches.  

Edited August 14, 2017 by henripootel

[Andromeda]

16 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I think that the conflict with Arya is manufactured, but it would good if the show would have Sansa explain to Arya what she went through with Littlefinger and Ramsay. Arya would understand why Sansa fears being powerless and at the mercy of her enemies, therefore she is desperate to hold it together until Jon returns.

When Arya was all pissy about Sansa being in mom and pop's bedroom, all I could think was how Sansa was repeatedly, viciously raped in one one of the rooms. Arya just needs to get off.

[FnkyChkn34]

1 hour ago, Tikichick said:

 

I can't think that who he is won't turn out to be important before all is said and done.  I believe he and his brothers were promised to the NK by their father in a very dark agreement.

Kinda what I was thinking... Maybe he gets legitimized and becomes Sam Tarly II.

[SimoneS]

1 hour ago, Andromeda said:

When Arya was all pissy about Sansa being in mom and pop's bedroom, all I could think was how Sansa was repeatedly, viciously raped in one one of the rooms. Arya just needs to get off.

I  would have preferred to see the two sisters bonding and then teaming up to take down Littlefinger. Sansa could have confided in Arya what she had to endure from Ramsay and Littlefinger's schemes and sexual objectification causing Arya to swear to help her get her revenge on Littlefinger. That would have been so much fun to watch. Instead we get ridiculously manufactured conflict between them.  

Edited August 14, 2017 by SimoneS

[Tikichick]

Just now, FnkyChkn34 said:

Kinda what I was thinking... Maybe he gets legitimized and becomes Sam Tarly II.

Yes, I speculated that he may in fact be the sitting Lord Tarly at the moment.  I can see Sam's mom making that assertion without hesitation.  I can also see Randyll's ashes becoming a mini dust devil at the idea.

When I said who he is will likely turn out to be important before all is said and done I was referring to his biological status as Craster's son.  I believe there was a bargain struck there between Craster and the NK.  I suspect the NK might be a stickler for wanting the bargain kept. 

[RandyRanderson]

1 minute ago, SimoneS said:

I  would have preferred to see the two sisters bonding and then teaming up to take down Littlefinger. Sansa could have confide in Arya what she had to endure from Ramsay and Littlefinger's schemes and sexual objectification causing Arya to swear to help her get her revenge on Littlefinger. That would have been so much fun to watch. Instead we get ridiculously manufactured conflict between them.  

If Arya takes that to Sansa and says she found it in Littlefinger's room after he requested the maester find it, I could see Sansa turning on LF.  He could have used that against her with the other Northern lords.  I'm hopeful Arya is smart enough to realize Sansa was forced to write that and that LF was trying to create this conflict.

[MrsR]

11 minutes ago, henripootel said:

Yeah, but are we sure they're gonna do much against the dead?  If I recall from Hardhome, John's Valarian steel sword (which shatters White Walkers) cut up the dead pretty much like any other sharp blade.  

[Brn2bwild]

Anyone else find it hypocritical that Dany roasts two rebels to death, and Tyrion is horrified, but smash in the faces of two random gold cloaks?  No problem.

Edited August 15, 2017 by Brn2bwild
Tyrion, not Trion

[MrsR]

I would MUCH MUCH prefer to try and kill the Night King and his WW from afar with a volley of arrows or a sniper. And how about a Scorpion with a big dragonglass tip? 

[Chris24601]

2 hours ago, Heckler52317 said:

Recidivism rates of house lords is quite high, and with a food shortage you don't need dudes on life sentences. Varys and Tyrion pissing and mianing about it bugged me.

Thank you for reminding me of another pet peeve I have with Dany. While we didn't see her do it to all of them last episode, they confirmed in this episode that Dany burned more than a THOUSAND wagons of grain. Just to put that into perspective, carts the size we saw could, ballpark, carry 1-2 tons of grain each... so that's 1000 to 2000 TONS of food stores that Dany incinerated in her attack.

It also marks the fifth episode in a row that food stores (or lack thereof) have been brought up in the narrative, just like Rhaegar's name has been used every episode this season. It's far too regular to be random at this point. Mark my words, the food shortage due to these idiot wars is going to kill more people than the White Walkers ever could.

1 hour ago, henripootel said:

Missing bits from the episode.

Jorah to Jon: "Is ... that my father's sword?"

One of the Unsullied pointed out in their thread that Jeor Mormont changed the pommel from a bear to a wolf before he gave it to Jon. Until Jorah hears Jon refer to it as Longclaw he'd have no reason to suspect it used to be his family's blade.

1 hour ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

He can't just grow up in Westeros as "Sam" though.  Maybe he's insignificant and it'll never matter, but I notice little things like that.

Jon as King in the North (or possibly of all Seven Kingdoms down the line) could legitimize Little Sam as "Samwell Tarly, Second of his Name" pretty easily.

50 minutes ago, Francie said:

Olenna, as the leader of a house and a region, had no authority to align with Daenerys. It would be like the governor of New York aligning with Albania to come attack the United States.   So, sticking with your country and not following your governor and some invader from Albania -- even if that invader was born in the U.S. -- is not treason.

If we're judging by modern standards, Dany the Despot (literally; her whim is law where she rules) committed a war crime by executing prisoners of war. It isn't the modern world, but it was still a bloody stupid thing to do from an optics point of view.

Unless she locked up the rest of the soldiers or killed them later, they're going to talk about her actions and that they knelt out of fear for their lives. Places may surrender out of fear because of that, but it will not win her an ounce of loyalty from them... because she's validating the stories that she's just like her father, the Mad King who burns his enemies alive. Her dragons can't be everywhere (there are plenty of places they just can't fit anymore) and she's not invulnerable to poison or an assassin's knife, garrote or crossbow bolt.

Throw in the stories about how she burned over a thousand tons of grain with winter closing in and confirming that she's using troops known for their murdering, raping and pillaging and Dany's attack is a one monumental PR disaster and a solid detriment to her being able to rule the country with anything other than the iron grip of terror.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Chris24601

[stillshimpy]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Agreed. It was utter bullshit that Jaime and Bronn were able to escape. This might have been somewhat more believable if they had both jumped into a swift-moving river that carried them quickly downstream; instead, we see them emerge from a lake that is as still as glass. And about a mile or more from the battlefield. Like suddenly they're Aqua Men.

I honest-to-goodness couldn't figure out where the fuck they were supposed to be at first.  My entire reaction was "What the....where the hell is the entire battle?  Did they just jump into one of those pools that leads to different worlds a la The Magician's Nephew?  What the ever living fuck did I miss that thoroughly?"  For freaking real, I assumed there was something wrong with my episode feed.  "The hell?  The episode just cut out at least a minute explaining how the fuck sinking-like-a-stone in body armor man just got dragged out of the water, politely coughed up a wee bit to try and prove it had been somehow close..."  and yes, I get that CGI budgets etc.  But apparently along with some excellent pipes for singing, Bronn has gills now and Jaime must actually already be a Wight because that was some bullshit.  

1 hour ago, henripootel said:

Missing bits from the episode.

Jamie to Bronn: "So, what, we can breathe water now?"

Jorah to Jon: "Is ... that my father's sword?"

Gendry to Jon: "First things first - I've got some news for you about your sister Arya ..."

Arya to Sansa: "Littlefinger wants us at each other's throats - he apparently didn't go to Sneaky School like I did."

I also was sort of looking forward to the awkwardness of Dany finding out the reason a restored Jorah had arrived on her Dragonstone Doorstep was because of Sam Tarly.   Show whiffed an opportunity to have Dany at least have a momentary twinge about what sort of men she just roasted alive.  

[Tikichick]

5 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I  would have preferred to see the two sisters bonding and then teaming up to take down Littlefinger. Sansa could have confide in Arya what she had to endure from Ramsay and Littlefinger's schemes and sexual objectification causing Arya to swear to help her get her revenge on Littlefinger. That would have been so much fun to watch. Instead we get ridiculously manufactured conflict between them.  

Totally agree the sister show sounds like a great option.  I am however giving a little bit of room and hoping that what we saw was a too truncated look at the storyline they're trying to tell in too little time in the press to the end & what we are shown ends up making good story in the end, simply told too quickly.

[YaddaYadda]

19 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

Not to mention Jamie mentioning a Stark girl should marry a blacksmith in book.

So a Stark Baratheon match is being hinted at, whether it happens or not (shrug ) 

He was talking about Sansa. At that point he thought Arya was dead.

Was I the only one expecting Randyll to have a cow over Sam stealing Heart's Bane? He's dead and there was no peep about that.

[Andromeda]

16 hours ago, dargosmydaddy said:

Gendry! He better not have returned just to become White Walker fodder...

Echoing that Davos is the best.

Tyrion, on the other hand, needs to learn how to look before he rambles down paths toward gold cloaks. Though it was nice to see Gendry's hammers in action.

Shouldn't the crew venturing north of the wall maybe invest in some hats? Earmuffs, at least?

Is it just me, or does Little Sam look, like, a year older than he did in the first episode of the season?

Reunions I am atill hoping to see: Gendry/ Arya, Jon/ Arya, Pod/ Tyrion

I know, I laughed. Apparently they don't know that most of your body heat leaves through the head... It's like when doctors don't wear masks on medical shows -- DB and DW wanted us to see their faces.

[stillshimpy]

7 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

When I said who he is will likely turn out to be important before all is said and done I was referring to his biological status as Craster's son.  I believe there was a bargain struck there between Craster and the NK.  I suspect the NK might be a stickler for wanting the bargain kept. 

Well, I'm assuming that little Sam will actually be important to breaking the hold of the Night King on the Army of the Dead because the White Walkers (Others) are all presumably Sam Craster's kin and they communicate telepathically, or so it seems.  

[SimoneS]

1 minute ago, YaddaYadda said:

He was talking about Sansa. At that point he thought Arya was dead.

Was I the only one expecting Randyll to have a cow over Sam stealing Heart's Bane? He's dead and there was no peep about that.

That was my point about Sam stealing the priceless sword with no fall out . You would have think that Randall would gone after him to retrieve the sword. Sam hadn't even gone that far as he was at the Citadel. And now Sam has stolen valuable books. He is in the wrong profession Hilarious.

I do think that Gendry has returned to reestablish the House Baratheon. I wouldn't be surprised if after the war that he is legitimized and we get hints of a potential relationship with Sansa.

[Tikichick]

1 minute ago, SimoneS said:

That was my point about Sam stealing the priceless sword with no fall out . You would have think that Randall would gone after him to retrieve the sword. Sam hadn't even gone that far as he was at the Citadel. And now Sam has stolen valuable books. He is in the wrong profession Hilarious.

I do think that Gendry has returned to reestablish the House Baratheon. I wouldn't be surprised if after the war that he is legitimized and we get hints of a potential relationship with Sansa.

Steam rises over Cersei's grave upon the utterance of the words Lady Sansa Barratheon.

[Oscirus]

10 minutes ago, doram said:

Er... Tyrion etc were being bombarded in Mereen when Dany showed up with Drogon and roasted the ships. Whatever he did between when she left and back, it was basically killing time because she came back to meet the same chaos she left. 

And they quelled that uprising using Tyrion's plan. Hell, he even got her more ships in the process.

Does fermented crab work? I'm  asking for a friend

11 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

He was talking about Sansa. At that point he thought Arya was dead.

Was I the only one expecting Randyll to have a cow over Sam stealing Heart's Bane? He's dead and there was no peep about that.

At this point sam could walk up to dany and slap the shit out of  her for killing his father and brother and nothing would happen.

[stillshimpy]

2 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I do think that Gendry has returned to reestablish the House Baratheon. I wouldn't be surprised if after the war that he is legitimized and we get hints of a potential relationship with Sansa.

That would be such a lovely direction to take that in.  It would take both of their arcs to nicely earned conclusions.  Sansa having long since learned that worth of a person doesn't have anything to do with a title, Gendry being the only surviving child of her father's closest friend.   It's so nice but that's the thing, the show isn't going to do anything that nice.   

I was also bothered by the manufactured drama of Sansa and Arya bickering over Arya's perceptions about Sansa's actions.   However, for once I felt like they were doing it for a good reason.  What Arya presumably wants to talk to Sansa about, her last memory of her, is going to be a bone of contention.  Arya never saw Sansa fall down screaming, she doesn't know that Sansa was Joffrey's whipping thing for years, or that when she agreed to an arranged marriage that was supposed to help solidify her house despite not being her choice, shit went pear-shaped in "likely never getting over that ways."  

Arya is basically trying to pick up the emotional tenor of their relationship when they last met and they've both been through a shit ton...but I get that the two characters actually need to have a conversation that acknowledges the "Boy, do you ever have NO IDEA what has been going on with me..." from both sides.   Arya's wrong to judge Sansa's motives and she's assuming she understands them.  

The part I liked about Arya not understanding she's playing into Littlefinger's hands and leaping at a chance to mistrust her sister is that it comes from an earned place in the story and both characters have largely survived by being able to figure out when NOT to say anything.  It makes sense that now they have trouble figuring out the conversations they should have.  

[Francie]

29 minutes ago, The Kings Foot said:

Somehow I think Dany was referring to Queen Margery and thier aligning with her murderer.

I thought it was Tyrion who said Tarly had followed a prior queen.  And yes, he may have been referring to Margaery.  But Margaery died when Tommen still held the throne.  It wasn't as though he revolted against Margaery. He was faithful to her to her death. So if Tyrion was referencing her, as he well may have been, the point wasn't a good one.  

There was a power void after Margaery's and Tommen's death. Cersei took the throne, unopposed within King's Landing. No one else claimed it. Even Dany is claiming it not by right of being Tommen's rightful heir, but that her father was unjustly ousted in the first place. Except that she acknowledges that he was a cruel, mad king. So ... wait, what exactly is her basis for claiming the throne? That Viserys should have been named ruler instead of Robert, and that she's his heir? 

In any event, it was the Queen of Thorns that Tarly tossed over in favor of Cersei.  And she, despite the moniker, was no queen. 

[KungFuBunny]

15 hours ago, screamin said:

He liked his brother, IIRC.

Yes book Sam Tarley was the eldest son and he was close to his mom and his little brother. He was into art and poetry, so his father forced him to take the Black so that Dickon would be his heir.

[MadMouse]

Elia's health would be a huge concern especially with a royal family that was so small like the Targs, the only reason Aerys sat the throne is because plague, war and stupidity wiped out dozens of his grandfather's cousins and brothers who were higher up in succession. They didn't call him Aegon the Unlikely for fun.

[DarkRaichu]

22 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Yes, I speculated that he may in fact be the sitting Lord Tarly at the moment.  I can see Sam's mom making that assertion without hesitation.  I can also see Randyll's ashes becoming a mini dust devil at the idea.

When I said who he is will likely turn out to be important before all is said and done I was referring to his biological status as Craster's son.  I believe there was a bargain struck there between Craster and the NK.  I suspect the NK might be a stickler for wanting the bargain kept. 

Sam relinquished any claim to the name when he joined the NW (techincally forced to joined by his dad) .  Can his mom easily reinstate the title to Sam ??? Also, he is still bound by the NW oath, isn't he ?

[GrailKing]

27 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I  would have preferred to see the two sisters bonding and then teaming up to take down Littlefinger. Sansa could have confide in Arya what she had to endure from Ramsay and Littlefinger's schemes and sexual objectification causing Arya to swear to help her get her revenge on Littlefinger. That would have been so much fun to watch. Instead we get ridiculously manufactured conflict between them.  

I'm sure we're going to get a form of that wish, but by Bran, Sansa wants to leave that in the past, but yes both sisters need to know what the other endured.

[YaddaYadda]

8 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

At this point sam could walk up to dany and slap the shit out of  her for killing his father and brother and nothing would happen.

I think Sam knows his father well enough to get what happened. I think Sam knows the hold his father had on him to understand why his brother decided to die. Sam is grown man, he lived with Randyll for some seventeen years before he was packed off to the Wall. 

If Dany had decided to kill Randyll and Dickon just because, then I can see the point. But she gave Randyll options that he declined, Tyrion tried to reason with Dickon and he declined. Is it because Dany used Drogon to kill them instead of a headsman? 

[crowceilidh]

Quote

Quote

I'm a big fan of Joe Abercrombie too. I wish they'd make some of his books into movies/TV shows...I really liked Red Country and also the Shattered Sea series – Half a King, Half the World, and Half a War.

YESSSS give us an Abercrombie series, HBO. Preferably The First Law, but Shattered Sea could be good too. Red Country was a fantastic fantasy Western. He's so good at not taking fantasy too seriously, audiences will love it. He'll probably get picked up at some point after the networks realize fantasy selllz. 

I'd WAY rather see Miles Cameron's Red Knight series, although I'm not sure special f/x could deal with dragons that large.   That's an amazeballs series - not sure I don't like it better than GRRM (and Cameron writes FAST -- 2-3 novels a year, AND that series is finished, so you don't have to worry about dying before the thing ends).

[Tikichick]

1 minute ago, DarkRaichu said:

Sam relinquished any claim to the name when he joined the NW (techincally forced to joined by his dad) .  Can his mom easily reinstate the title to Sam ??? Also, he is still bound by the NW oath, isn't he ?

Sam did.  But he presented little Samwell to his family as his son, which is also not allowed.  His mother was delighted.  Her husband and eligible son are gone.  She may indeed attempt to declare little Samwell the new Lord Tarly.  No idea how effective she would be, but I can see the attempt on her part.

[TarotQueen]

Man Dinklage and Coster-Waldau were bringing it this eppy!  Tyrion in the scene with Jaime, and then Jaime in the second scene with Cersei ... Award winning stuff right there ... the best acting this season since Theon abandoned Yara.

I havent read all pages btw, so apologies if I repeat others.

Gendry, dude, you have too nice a body and smile to have a fucked up haircut!  

Davos is fantastic.  Hope he lives to an even riper old age!

I dont think Kit and Emilia have no chemistry at all as some have said, but it really is unfortunate that they both have other actors they have way more of it with.  Jon and Gendry's instant bromance was hotter than he and Dany have been so far, and Dany looked like she was mighty close to shifting Ser Jorah outta the Friendzone after all.

The Arya and Sansa conflict is beyond stupid.

I checked TWOIAF after this episode and it looks like a King can divorce (set aside) his wife in 7K.  I wish they had gone that route rather than annulment but I have a theory that alot of the public doesnt necessarily get the difference and that to them, an annulment just sounds less harsh.  So to us it makes Rhaegar sound like a DH, but I'm pretty sure that wasnt the intent.

Gilly is the cutest!  Sam's a lucky guy considering.

[nodorothyparker]

3 hours ago, SimoneS said:

That was my point about Sam stealing the priceless sword with no fall out . You would have think that Randall would gone after him to retrieve the sword. Sam hadn't even gone that far as he was at the Citadel. And now Sam has stolen valuable books. He is in the wrong profession Hilarious.

Didn't Sam even tell them all at the Family Tarly Awkward Xenophobic Dinner that he was going to the Citadel to become a maester?  I could swear that he did. So Daddy Tarly knew exactly where he was headed and where he would be.  I've been waiting ever since Sam got there for some frazzled novice to interrupt his bedpan scrubbing to tell him an angry older man was outside demanding his sword back from his pasty wildling loving son.  But now Tarly Sr. is dragon ash and nary a peep or angry visit about the sword and Sam's moved on to stealing random books.  So the Family Tarly was merely a plot device with no payoff.

[Tikichick]

1 minute ago, nodorothyparker said:

Didn't Sam even tell them all at the Family Tarly Awkward Xenophobic Dinner that he was going to the Citadel to become a maester?  I could swear that he did. So he knew exactly where he was headed and where he would be.  I've been waiting ever since Sam got there for some frazzled novice to interrupt his bedpan scrubbing to tell him an angry older man was outside demanding his sword back from pasty wildling loving son.  But now Tarly Sr. is dragon ash and nary a peep or angry visit about the sword and Sam's moved on to stealing random books.  So the Family Tarly was merely a plot device with no payoff.

It was likely setting the table for something yet to come.

[Constantinople]

1 minute ago, nodorothyparker said:

Didn't Sam even tell them all at the Family Tarly Awkward Xenophobic Dinner that he was going to the Citadel to become a maester?  I could swear that he did. So he knew exactly where he was headed and where he would be.  I've been waiting ever since Sam got there for some frazzled novice to interrupt his bedpan scrubbing to tell him an angry older man was outside demanding his sword back from pasty wildling loving son.  But now Tarly Sr. is dragon ash and nary a peep or angry visit about the sword and Sam's moved on to stealing random books.  So the Family Tarly was merely a plot device with no payoff.

It's a Valyrian steel sword, and those kill White Walkers, so there may yet be a payoff, at least for the sword.

That said, Sam is a bit of a klepto

[YaddaYadda]

2 minutes ago, MadMouse said:

Elia's health would be a huge concern especially with a royal family that was so small like the Targs, the only reason Aerys sat the throne is because plague, war and stupidity wiped out dozens of his grandfather's cousins and brothers who were higher up in succession. They didn't call him Aegon the Unlikely for fun.

At the risk of getting jumped on (which is fine, because opinions and all), I never understood why the Targaryens who had dwindled so much, saw Rhaella have 7 miscarriages/stillbirths/babies that didn't live all that long would take their chances on someone who was known as being frail. It's such a crapshoot. In a society that values healthy women with good hips (see Catelyn's assessment of both Jeyne Westerling and Roslin Frey), it's just so odd. Was Aerys that worried about Dorne, or were there was no one old enough to marry Rhaegar? If Aerys had accepted Cersei, they would still have needed to wait until she was sixteen before she married him. 

Aerys was always going to become king after his father. Duncan the Small gave up his claim to marry Jenny of Oldstones, Daeron was more than likely gay and broke his engagement to Olenna and also died before Summerhall. Jaehaerys became king and his son was going to be king after him. 

[nodorothyparker]

Yes, it's a Valyrian steel sword, which was the entire point of acquiring it.  But it didn't need the entire setup of introducing the entire family Tarly or the Awkward Xenophobic Dinner and Sam yet again telling us how scary scary his daddy was to get it when there was absolutely no follow through on any of it.  Tarly Sr. could have mailed it to him with the exact same effect.

[Paradigm14]

50 minutes ago, Andromeda said:

Or maybe she has a tumor... Not that I want cancer to kill her instead of someone she's wronged!

As for Jon being a rightful heir, it depends on whether people recognize the annulment. Some monarchies sure didn't. Since Rhaegar had legitimate children with his first wife, the line should go through those children (if they are alive in this version of the universe). 

In any case, Jon would need to be recognized by the powers that be to make any kind of claim on the throne. (Reminds me of the Perkin Warbeck situation in England.)

But I'm sure he will be, since it's in the story.

And Rhaegar sure is a shit. I doubt the Dornish would see the first marriage to their own Elia as illegitimate (which is what annulment does, rather than divorce where the marriage is recognized as legitimate).

You know,I hope there's a good reason Elia Martell went along with this. I can't think of what it might be. 
As far as legitimacy of the annulment, if the Maesters do it, it's kind of a given. There are no other actual active churches in Westeros, so no one to oppose it.

[LoveLeigh]

Sorry, Danaerys lost my support. She became her father, burning people alive. She demands total loyalty with a bend of the knee and is extremely power hungry and now seems like a psychotic despot. 

At the beginning of this episode, the conquered men who kneeled to her did so out of total fear, not because they believed in her. She has become an ugly tyrant using her dragons to threaten and frighten others in her own ego trip. Jon Snow also has beheaded those who were disloyal but something in her actions seemed sadistic. 

I hope she is not sitting on that Iron Throne in the end. 

Edited August 14, 2017 by DakotaLavender
clarification

[Tikichick]

3 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

It's a Valyrian steel sword, and those kill White Walkers, so there may yet be a payoff, at least for the sword.

That said, Sam is a bit of a klepto

In Sam's defense he did leave the Citadel as amply provisioned with chamber pots as they were when he got there, despite having very free access to a great many.  He could have left them up quite a creek and was kind and did not.

1 minute ago, nodorothyparker said:

Yes, it's a Valyrian steel sword, which was the entire point of acquiring it.  But it didn't need the entire setup of introducing the entire family Tarly or the Awkward Zenophobic Dinner and Sam yet again telling us how scary scary his daddy was to get it when there was absolutely no follow through on any of it.  Tarly Sr. could have mailed it to him with the exact same effect.

Chalk that up in the same quibble about dangling Dickon so prominently -- and a recast with a rather recognizable actor no less.  I still can't figure that out.

[nodorothyparker]

Tom Hopper was completely wasted here.  I can't figure out why they even bothered with a recast for that.

[Andromeda]

16 hours ago, Macbeth said:

I respectfully disagree - Arya and Sansa always had a contentious relationship.  I can see where Arya would be looking to fight it out with Sansa.  One of the last interactions she had with Sansa - Sansa was defending Joffrey who ended up beheading their father.

If they weren't at loggerheads - that would be unrealistic with everything we know about their characters.

I'd hoped they'd grown past their childhood spats, after all they've been through, and with so much to bind them to each other as two of the last remaining family members.

[MadMouse]

2 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

At the risk of getting jumped on (which is fine, because opinions and all), I never understood why the Targaryens who had dwindled so much, saw Rhaella have 7 miscarriages/stillbirths/babies that didn't live all that long would take their chances on someone who was known as being frail. It's such a crapshoot. In a society that values healthy women with good hips (see Catelyn's assessment of both Jeyne Westerling and Roslin Frey), it's just so odd. Was Aerys that worried about Dorne, or were there was no one old enough to marry Rhaegar? If Aerys had accepted Cersei, they would still have needed to wait until she was sixteen before she married him. 

Aerys was always going to become king after his father. Duncan the Small gave up his claim to marry Jenny of Oldstones, Daeron was more than likely gay and broke his engagement to Olenna and also died before Summerhall. Jaehaerys became king and his son was going to be king after him. 

Aerys wanted a bride with Valyrian blood, he sent Robert's parents on a mission to find one in Volantis and they died on the return trip. The funny thing is had any of the Baratheon boys been girls they probably would have been Rhaegar's bride. So after them that left the Martells as the closest to the blood of dragon.

[sacrebleu]

Quote

Shouldn't the crew venturing north of the wall maybe invest in some hats? Earmuffs, at least?

Seriously! not one of them covers their head-- they'll all catch cold!

[KarenTargaryen]

6 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

Well show Thoros was definitely at the battle where the Greyjoy rebellion was put down -- I recall King Robert and Ser Barristan Selmy talking about it in season one -- remembering his flaming sword as he charged through a breach the wall.  Jonah is a knight and he was banished during King Robert's reign so it's perfectly reasonable to assume that Jorah might have fought in that same battle.  But I don't think it's ever been specifically said in the show.  That being said, I doubt if the unsullied (non-book-walkers) found it hard to believe that Jorah was acquainted with Thoros.  He's pretty distinctive.  There aren't that many red priests in Westeros and even fewer who fight with flaming sword.  It seem perfectly reasonable to assume -- from their greeting in this episode -- that Jorah ran across Thoros at tournaments and the like, if even they never fought side-by-side before.

Okay, that's a good point but I also thought it was a plot device to remind us that "good" guys are dying on both sides.  We may (I may) have cheered the dragon fire that decimated the Lannister troops last episode (they were the BAD guys -- they killed Olenna) but Tyrion seemed horrified by the slaughter of men from his home region.  We were also introduced to "nice" Lannister soldiers in an earlier episode (Hi Ed Sheeran!) and in this episode an unequivocally "nice" guy -- Dickon Tarley -- gets burnt alive as punishment for remaining loyal.  They just keep reminding us that in war (at least in this war -- and particularly, I think, in civil wars) definitions of right/wrong and good/bad get very very messy.   This point of view is reinforced with that comment by Davos reminding Tyrion that the last time they were in Kings Landing they were fighting on opposite sides and that Davos lost his son to Tyrion's wildfire bomb.  Then the capper is when all those guys (at the Wall) with all those conflicting loyalties and simmering resentments are reminded by Jon that they are all on the same side -- the side that is breathing.

I think that was Jorah and Barristan talking soon after Barriston joined team Dany about Thoros and his flaming sword.

[YaddaYadda]

1 minute ago, MadMouse said:

Aerys wanted a bride with Valyrian blood, he sent Robert's parents on a mission to find one in Volantis and they died on the return trip. The funny thing is had any of the Baratheon boys been girls they probably would have been Rhaegar's bride. So after them that left the Martells as the closest to the blood of dragon.

Right, I always forget about that. Then I remember how well Quentyn was served by his smidgen of Valyrian blood. 

[Tikichick]

5 minutes ago, sacrebleu said:

Seriously! not one of them covers their head-- they'll all catch cold!

I think that qualifies sacrebleu as a candidate for the Mother.