S07.E05: Eastwatch

[RandyRanderson]

Maybe Sam can send a wight back to the Citadel.  It's too bad we didn't get to see more there, I was excited to see Oldtown but ultimately I think that story line fell a little flat.  

 

I'm guessing one of the books Sam stole will have some key information to defeating the Night King.  That along with the the information about Rhaeger and Lynna I guess would make his time there worthwhile. 

[GrailKing]

4 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

And for God's sake, I know we are glossing over the months of travel for story line purposes, but use that excuse to let Cersei's hair grow!  It should be down to her shoulders at the very least.  Lena's face is just too strong for that horrible wig, and her embrace with Jamie looked a little too much like identical twin brothers getting it on.

well years have passed with my marriage, yet my wife keeps her's short, she likes it that way ( I don't, but I lost that battle ) so it's not strange to me that Cersei would have it cut and trim now and then. I actually thought it looked good in 6-10, though not as good as her hand maid Bernadette's.

[FnkyChkn34]

Maybe this is slightly off-topic, but he was in this episode and I don't know where else to ask it - what is Gilly's son's name?  His name is also Sam, right?  But what is his last name?

[Heckler52317]

I'm quite ok with Dany putting down the Tarleys- decapitated or burned- potato/potatoh. Recidivism rates of house lords is quite high, and with a food shortage you don't need dudes on life sentences. Varys and Tyrion pissing and mianing about it bugged me. 

The political machinations tend to lose me a bit, so big thanks to the forum for putting so much explanation on here. Joy to read all that. I don't blame the actors. But pulling meaning from subtle glances and such is beyond my craft. 

I sport a big crush on Gilly, so it kinda hurt my heart to have her shot down there. 

Very curious how the band of adventurer types will fare on their mission. Could you lop off the wight's appendages and carry out the torso and head backpack style (make sure the head faces away) and deliver it's complaining ass as proof? Not that I see anything proving to be mind changing evidence for Cersei. 

Which makes me think winning the war for the throne then presenting a united Westeros against the NK isn't a wiser play. The WW haven't proven to be a time sensitive threat these first 6 1/2 seasons... 

[FnkyChkn34]

Just now, GrailKing said:

well years have passed with my marriage, yet my wife keeps her's short, she likes it that way ( I don't, but I lost that battle ) so it's not strange to me that Cersei would have it cut and trim now and then. I actually thought it looked good in 6-10, though not as good as her hand maid Bernadette's.

I think that's because Bernadette's was real hair, not a horrendous wig.

[GrailKing]

1 minute ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

I think that's because Bernadette's was real hair, not a horrendous wig.

true.

[DarkRaichu]

Is this a fanservice episode or what? We have Gendry, all callbacks to previous seasons around the brotherhood, the Hound, Jon, Davos, Tyrion, Jaime, Cersei, the whole annulment and re-marrieage thing, and all of the Winterfell stuffs.

So LF could spot an assssin shadowing him just like that?  Either he had some power beyond normal Westerosi or Arya needed more training in the Hall of B&W

Of course Varys knew how to read a message without opening the seal :P

Dany had more chemistry with sir Friendzone than with Jon.  I hope the non-chemistry between Dany and Jon was a TPTB's decision

Jon touched Drogon, that was cool.  Still no chemistry between Dany and Jon after all that :P

How is Sam going to react when he figures out Dany killed his dad and brother?

Yay choice. Bend the knees or die.  Unlike Cersei, Dany gave people choice.  Just like Dany would let anyone (Missandei, Jon) to leave her castle without permission.

Tarlys, we hardly knew ye

I am afraid Cersei is going to plot some kind of assassination when meeting with Dany, Jon, and co to see the wight.  She did this before when she blew up the Great Septor.

Jaime was a sentimental fool who got played by his siblings :P

Edited August 14, 2017 by DarkRaichu

[MarySNJ]

1 hour ago, VCRTracking said:

Arya couldn't figure out the Waif was disguised as the old hag before she stabbed her. I have no problem believing she'd fall for Littlefinger's ploy.

Clearly Arya still has something to learn... from Brienne. I immediately recalled Brienne telling Podrick in the previous episode:  "Don't go where your enemy leads you!"  Littlefinger has been floundering a bit in Winterfell, but it seems he's gotten his wits about him and is working a scheme. 

I'm hopeful that between Bran and his weir wood visions, and Sansa's personal knowledge of LF's tactics, Arya will understand that he's playing her.

[RedheadZombie]

1 minute ago, GrailKing said:

well years have passed with my marriage, yet my wife keeps her's short, she likes it that way ( I don't, but I lost that battle ) so it's not strange to me that Cersei would have it cut and trim now and then. I actually thought it looked good in 6-10, though not as good as her hand maid Bernadette's.

That hairstyle looks great on a lot of modern women.  But not Cersei.  I thought she might be keeping it short to look more "strong and commanding", but Cersei it far too vain about her appearance.  She always wore her hair down and flowing.  I think we're supposed to think it hasn't had time to grow, yet an entire fleet of ships have been built since Cersei's hair was cut.  Put the woman in a nice wig again!  Her beauty is what she used to disarm people and manipulate them. 

[Haleth]

7 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Maybe this is slightly off-topic, but he was in this episode and I don't know where else to ask it - what is Gilly's son's name?  His name is also Sam, right?  But what is his last name?

He's a wildling, he has no last name.

So now that Bronn betrayed Jaime to Cersei, is their bromance off?

[GrailKing]

2 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

That hairstyle looks great on a lot of modern women.  But not Cersei.  I thought she might be keeping it short to look more "strong and commanding", but Cersei it far too vain about her appearance.  She always wore her hair down and flowing.  I think we're supposed to think it hasn't had time to grow, yet an entire fleet of ships have been built since Cersei's hair was cut.  Put the woman in a nice wig again!  Her beauty is what she used to disarm people and manipulate them. 

Some women like men look terrible with short hair, Lena looks better than Jennifer Goodwin? plays snow white in OUT

[AGuyToo]

2 hours ago, Francie said:

In my version, the only change I'd make is that I'd replace the mother with Sansa.

Why? Sansa is not a mother, whereas Dany is (in a manner of speaking).

[nodorothyparker]

10 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

I also thought Cersei was simply starting menopause, but she seemed truly pleased.  Her only softness was toward her children, but after she accused Tommen of betraying her, I think she could potentially be a danger to any future baby she had.  I wouldn't put it past Pycelle to lie to Cersei, and manipulate her into thinking she was pregnant.

I'm inclined to think that's what's going on with her in both show and book.  The show has made a point of having Olenna reject Cersei as a bride for Loras three full seasons ago as "too old" (and yes, obviously not the only objection) and also gone out of it's way to remind us more than once that the twins are now north of 40.  Sure, women certainly do still have babies well into their 40s, but it's not young in the faux medieval setting we're dealing with and she's within the age range for it.   With Jaime throwing it up to her in the season premier that they're finished without heirs and now clearly wavering on a fight to the death after separate encounters with Tyrion and the dragons, I certainly wouldn't put it past her to have Qyburn magicking/medicing a solution for her that she knows will keep him on the leash.

In other words, I'll believe in another incest baby when I see it.

[GrailKing]

1 minute ago, AGuyToo said:

Why? Sansa is not a mother, whereas Dany is (in a manner of speaking).

Sansa is actually doing a mother's role with actual real people, trying to protect them, bring them together, feeding and clothing them as Lady of Winterfell she is their mother.

Ser Jorah to Danny paraphrase : they're wild beast, not your children, they can't be tamed.

[YaddaYadda]

34 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

I really can't hold that against Sam because at this point, he's really got no way of knowing that this is really, really, REALLY important. If he knew that Jon was Lyanna's son, that's one thing. Right now, the only one privy to that nugget is Bran. It's going to take a few more pieces of the puzzle to fall into place to really get a perfectly clear picture that will confirm to everyone Jon's position as heir to the world's ugliest chair.

No, but at the same time, he repeated the information back to Gilly, number of steps, bowel movements (taken directly from the books, but it was a Lord Commander instead of a High Septon), annulments.

It's going to click the second he's presented with other information.

[AGuyToo]

1 minute ago, GrailKing said:

Sansa is actually doing a mother's role with actual real people, trying to protect them, bring them together, feeding and clothing them as Lady of Winterfell she is their mother.

Ser Jorah to Danny paraphrase : they're wild beast, not your children, they can't be tamed.

I see what Sansa is now doing at Winterfell as good governmental work -- preparing for a long winter. In the books, Jon, while he's still at Castle Black, does some of this same stuff. In the last episode, Jaime of all people worried about the food supply. That's the business of government, not motherhood.

[Oscirus]

15 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

That hairstyle looks great on a lot of modern women.  But not Cersei.  I thought she might be keeping it short to look more "strong and commanding", but Cersei it far too vain about her appearance.  She always wore her hair down and flowing.  I think we're supposed to think it hasn't had time to grow, yet an entire fleet of ships have been built since Cersei's hair was cut.  Put the woman in a nice wig again!  Her beauty is what she used to disarm people and manipulate them. 

At this point, Cersei doesn't give  a damn, she's in charge. She sets the beauty standards now so if she says short hairs in, it's in.

[Tikichick]

1 hour ago, Oscirus said:

Dany was stuck in Mereen until Tyrion and Varys cleaned her mess up, so let's not act like Dany  got here on her own because that would be just false. 

As for the hypocrisy, Tyrion's character has always been fine with the war stuff, less so about needlessly killing in cold blood. If you die while attacking him, that's on you. Hell tyrion couldn't even look at those slavemasters getting killed by his own plan last season.  If Dany want's to scare people in kneeling before her than fine do so. But don't talk about breaking the wheel when you're doing the same shit your predecessors did.

 

In regard to the Jon argument happening throughout this thread, I'd still argue that you can't give up your rights than get them back because you were dead. People just don't move to the back of the line because it's inconvenient to you due to your finding a loophole in the law.  I also thing Jon's being a legitimate prince is more about fulfilling the prophecy and less about being an heir to the throne. But at this point I don't trust the show so it is what it is.

Frankly I expect the workaround to be this, Jon Snow took NW vows renouncing everything and died and came back.  Lyanna whispered a name in Ned's ear along with the circumstances of her relationship with Rhaegar that resulted in the child she was now entrusting to her brother's care.  The name whispered was not Jon Snow, therefore her son had never assumed the mantle of his birthright, Jon Snow was not his birthright, so when he gave up the birthright of Jon Snow he did not give up his Targaryen birthright.      

[GrailKing]

Just now, AGuyToo said:

I see what Sansa is now doing at Winterfell as good governmental work -- preparing for a long winter. In the books, Jon, while he's still at Castle Black, does some of this same stuff. In the last episode, Jaime of all people worried about the food supply. That's the business of government, not motherhood.

I might be a bit off on mother hood, but I tend to remember both my parents working hard, and when they were home, dad worried over the house, mom on the money,clothing buying food,etc. don't matter if it's a rental apartment or half a country, Sansa has the aspect of the mother more then Danny.

WRG to my knowledge of parenting in my thinking.

Governing and parenting have co purposes, one has a wider reach then the other is all, Sansa is local WF, and expanded , the North.

[YaddaYadda]

2 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Frankly I expect the workaround to be this, Jon Snow took NW vows renouncing everything and died and came back.  Lyanna whispered a name in Ned's ear along with the circumstances of her relationship with Rhaegar that resulted in the child she was now entrusting to her brother's care.  The name whispered was not Jon Snow, therefore her son had never assumed the mantle of his birthright, Jon Snow was not his birthright, so when he gave up the birthright of Jon Snow he did not give up his Targaryen birthright.      

I never looked at this angle at all. But it's a really interesting perspective.

[Edith]

In episode 3 Tyrion said that Dany's army fights for her because they believe in her and the Lannister soldiers fight for Cersei because of fear. Now those soldiers are on Dany's side because they fear her. Kinda ironic isn't it.

Arya needs to take a chill pill. I think is very jarring how she has become some nonchalantly about killing. No Arya killing everyone who disagree or complain is not the right way.

The wight hunt plan is stupid. As simple as that.

Cersie pregnant...just no show! Be better than this.

I'm not even going to comment on the absurdity of Jaime not drowning.

And last but not least, Rhaegar is a piece of sh** and Lyanna is not that far away!  

[screamin]

45 minutes ago, stillshimpy said:

Yes, admittedly I guess part of the problem would be that they don't have a spare dead person at the Wall because they've been burning all the dead bodies.  

Eh, I don't see it as an insurmountable issue. They can pick one up on their way to the Wall - what with all the war, sackings and famine, what the North has a surplus of is dead bodies. If they had tried it, and found it didn't work - then, yes, go on a wight hunt. But the showrunners love their shortcuts.

Edited August 14, 2017 by screamin

[Macbeth]

3 hours ago, domina89 said:

Well based on Drogon's response to Jon, Dany may not have the upper hand for long in that area, either...

I agree.  When talking about who has claim to the Throne.  Drogon's opinion matters most.

[henripootel]

Missing bits from the episode.

Jamie to Bronn: "So, what, we can breathe water now?"

Jorah to Jon: "Is ... that my father's sword?"

Gendry to Jon: "First things first - I've got some news for you about your sister Arya ..."

Arya to Sansa: "Littlefinger wants us at each other's throats - he apparently didn't go to Sneaky School like I did."

[sacrebleu]

Quote

The show has made a point of having Olenna reject Cersei as a bride for Loras three full seasons ago as "too old" (and yes, obviously not the only objection) and also gone out of it's way to remind us more than once that the twins are now north of 40.

1

Have they mentioned a specific age though?  I know they've aged the characters up so that the kids Joffrey/Sansa could be betrothed without it seeming gross (I believe they were 12/13 in books and 14/15 in show.) 

Assuming Cersei married Robert a little older than was custom (due to the war)-- marriage @ 18/19-- lost Robert's kid, then had Joffrey-- I would put Cersei/Jamie at around 38/39. I don't recall a reference to age-- but I could be wrong.

[FnkyChkn34]

32 minutes ago, Haleth said:

He's a wildling, he has no last name.

He can't just grow up in Westeros as "Sam" though.  Maybe he's insignificant and it'll never matter, but I notice little things like that.

[Uncle JUICE]

1 minute ago, sacrebleu said:

Have they mentioned a specific age though?  I know they've aged the characters up so that the kids Joffrey/Sansa could be betrothed without it seeming gross (I believe they were 12/13 in books and 14/15 in show.) 

Assuming Cersei married Robert a little older than was custom (due to the war)-- marriage @ 18/19-- lost Robert's kid, then had Joffrey-- I would put Cersei/Jamie at around 38/39. I don't recall a reference to age-- but I could be wrong.

How do they even track years if the seasons don't change?? MIND BLOWN. Sorry, carry on :)

[MarySNJ]

37 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

That hairstyle looks great on a lot of modern women.  But not Cersei.  I thought she might be keeping it short to look more "strong and commanding", but Cersei it far too vain about her appearance.  She always wore her hair down and flowing.  I think we're supposed to think it hasn't had time to grow, yet an entire fleet of ships have been built since Cersei's hair was cut.  Put the woman in a nice wig again!  Her beauty is what she used to disarm people and manipulate them. 

I can see the argument that she chooses to keep it short. She has the same basic hairstyle as her brother and late father and sons; the men in her life that always held power that she craved. I can believe that she opted to keep it short as a stylistic middle finger to the Faith that cut it off, by taking something that was meant to humiliate her and turning it into a symbol of her power. 

[Tikichick]

2 hours ago, nachomama said:

I understand they want to get a white walker to prove to Cersei and everyone that a bigger threat is looming. Wouldn't Uncle Stark work for that? I know he wouldn't allow himself back through the wall when he got Bran and Meera through because he felt it would allow the Night king through, but now Night king is coming. How he is able to be a walker and yet not fully turn I don't know but it would be easier to get him back to King's Landing. And yes I immediately thought Cersei would go align herself with the Night King.

Kind of ironic if Jon finds Uncle Benjen now, after how much effort was spent trying to locate him originally -- and how much Jon really was longing to be reunited with Uncle Benjen again.  Seems like it would be an answer to some of the logistics -- although inevitably presents others.

[nodorothyparker]

13 minutes ago, sacrebleu said:

Have they mentioned a specific age though?  I know they've aged the characters up so that the kids Joffrey/Sansa could be betrothed without it seeming gross (I believe they were 12/13 in books and 14/15 in show.) 

Assuming Cersei married Robert a little older than was custom (due to the war)-- marriage @ 18/19-- lost Robert's kid, then had Joffrey-- I would put Cersei/Jamie at around 38/39. I don't recall a reference to age-- but I could be wrong.

Joffrey called Jaime "a 40-year-old knight" waaay back at the beginning of season 4.  At the start of this season, Cersei snarked to Jaime about how she had been the one who listened to their father talk about ruling for 40 years while he and Tyrion didn't.  It's not an exact number, of course, but speaking from experience it's not something you say about people who aren't already there or past it.  

The twins are, I believe, in their mid 30s when the books start but like nearly every other role on the show, they casted older.

[Andromeda]

16 hours ago, Eyes High said:

While I am confident that Dany is not mad and will never go mad, and while I don't see any issue with her decision to burn the Tarlys (she gave them a choice which they refused, fair enough), my vibe from the way D&D are writing her is that they don't see her as endgame queen, even as queen to Jon's king. I dunno. 

I am getting that feeling, too, which highly disappoints me. I like Jon, but I love Dany. I love that she's this small chick who might conquer the world. I've seen the story of the bastard boy who discovers his true parentage and pulls the sword from the stone gets acknowledged by dragons before.

Hopefully this is just a bump on the road to queendom...

[iMonrey]

Quote

Maybe a rewatch will change my mind, but GOT did the one thing I thought they absolutely could not do after last week's ending: the classic "Coming up in the river like a mile away, just out of breath." Not only is it lazy writing, it is well on impossible.

Agreed. It was utter bullshit that Jaime and Bronn were able to escape. This might have been somewhat more believable if they had both jumped into a swift-moving river that carried them quickly downstream; instead, we see them emerge from a lake that is as still as glass. And about a mile or more from the battlefield. Like suddenly they're Aqua Men.

There's just no realistic explanation for it. It's all plot-driven and it doesn't make any sense. The writers simply wanted to send Jaime back to Cersei so he could tell her all about the battle. He and Bronn should have been captured and/or killed, period, and the show didn't want that. Which is why they shouldn't have ended the previous episode the way they did. They should have allowed Bronn and Jaime to slip away unnoticed if they didn't want them captured or killed. They sacrificed credibility (not to mention integrity) for a cheap cliff-hanger fake-out.

At any rate, I'm just glad Drogon is OK, because that's really the only thing I was worried about. 

Although I have to say, it's a wonder Rhaegal and Viserion aren't terribly jealous of him. "Mom likes you best! She never takes us anywhere!"

Also, I'm not sure the CGI animators are 100% consistent in rendering Drogon to scale. He looked way more huge in this episode, sitting up there on the little hill, than he did in just the previous episode. Granted, I'm sure it's pretty tricky: they can tell the computer to make him x feet long by y feet wide but they have to calculate that in proportion to a backdrop which is probably also fake. 

[MarySNJ]

12 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

He can't just grow up in Westeros as "Sam" though.  Maybe he's insignificant and it'll never matter, but I notice little things like that.

If it's not Sam Snow, it's probably technically something like Sam Crasterson.

[Tikichick]

5 minutes ago, MarySNJ said:

I can see the argument that she chooses to keep it short. She has the same basic hairstyle as her brother and late father and sons; the men in her life that always held power that she craved. I can believe that she opted to keep it short as a stylistic middle finger to the Faith that cut it off, by taking something that was meant to humiliate her and turning it into a symbol of her power. 

The idea about her father and other powerful men having short hair is interesting.  I decided when she stuck with the sort hair it was Cersei declaring, you don't shame me, I will NOT be shamed.

[Francie]

1 hour ago, Constantinople said:

As King in the North, perhaps Jon shouldn't be part of Team Wight Hunter

I was thinking that, as a dead man, Jon probably shouldn't be part of the Team Wight Hunter. What's the guarantee that he won't turn into a wight, himself, come sundown?

[Tikichick]

18 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

He can't just grow up in Westeros as "Sam" though.  Maybe he's insignificant and it'll never matter, but I notice little things like that.

 

5 minutes ago, MarySNJ said:

If it's not Sam Snow, it's probably technically something like Sam Crasterson.

I can't think that who he is won't turn out to be important before all is said and done.  I believe he and his brothers were promised to the NK by their father in a very dark agreement.

[Stella]

1 hour ago, SeanC said:

As Jon said earlier this season, the punishment for treason is death.

Who committed treason? Not the Tarleys. 

Quote

trea·son

ˈtrēzən/

noun

the crime of betraying one's country, especially by attempting to kill the sovereign or overthrow the government.

Dany is an invader at this point in the story and they were her POW's. She burned them alive.

[RandyRanderson]

1 minute ago, Francie said:

I was thinking that, as a dead man, Jon probably shouldn't be part of the Team Wight Hunter. What's the guarantee that he won't turn into a wight, himself, come sundown?

Two dead men on the team. I wonder if Beric and Thoros have heard about Jon being brought back to life.  It's hard to tell if it's widely known in the North.

[FormerMod-a1]

They committed treason against Olenna.  

[Francie]

1 hour ago, AGuyToo said:

Why? Sansa is not a mother, whereas Dany is (in a manner of speaking).

It's my preference. I see Sansa as the more motherly type.  Dany reminds me of a gremlin. All good and nice and cuddly, but feed her after midnight, and she's a monster.  She gets called 'mother' by her subjects in Essos, and look what a good caretaker of them she's been. She's abandoned two cities and put a mercenary in charge of the third. Some mother who does that. She hasn't even -- from what we've seen -- given her former "children" any thought or concern. She's the mother who packed up one day and left with her new boyfriend.

I also hate the "mother of dragons" shtick.  She's not their "mother." She may want to see herself that way, but that's not how I see her. She's Oppenheimer, and they are her deadly toys. She's about as much of a mother as that woman who raised a chimpanzee from babyhood who then chewed off her friend's face. 

It's more that Sansa walks the walk now. She's trying to feed people, care for them, listen to their problems and sooth their worries. Meanwhile, Dany just talks the talk. She speaks of breaking wheels and a socialist society where all prosper, but meanwhile she is  burning their food and, worse, her own subjects.

But I do believe that the show has put Dany is the "mother" slot, especially as she is called mhysa, mhysa. And one of her favorite titles is Mother of Dragons. 

[SimoneS]

1 hour ago, Blonde Gator said:

Yes, Dany was matter-of-fact and unemotional in her decision making this week.  A good look for Dany, I think, and makes the whining by The Imp and the Spider very annoying.

I really believe her winter costumes give her MUCH more gravitas than the little slips of silk she wore in prior seasons.  Clothing makes the Queen, LOL.

I agree with both sentiments. Good rulers listen to advice then make the final decision. Both Tyrion and Varys used to be steely nerved and ruthless. This season they have become weak and whimpering. Their advice has caused Daenerys unnecessary losses. If she does lose, Cersei is going to do worse to them than burning them alive.

Thank goodness for the cold weather, Dany's outfits have improved tremendously. They always dressed Dany like a sexy seductive queen. This season she looks commanding and determined. I practically cheered when she stood in front of the Lannister bannermen last night. 

[MrsR]

Obsidian/dragonglass is going to make great arrow heads and spear tips.

 

Gendry is there because he's a Baratheon not because he's a smith.

 

So you take Randyll Tarly and Dickon up north with you and then you execute him once you get beyond the wall. Tie his corpse up and put it in a cage. Once it reanimates watch as his son bends the knee right quick. Then take him back to Cersei and show her, her brand new bannerman.

[Francie]

13 minutes ago, aquarian1 said:

They committed treason against Olenna.  

Olenna, as the leader of a house and a region, had no authority to align with Daenerys. It would be like the governor of New York aligning with Albania to come attack the United States.   So, sticking with your country and not following your governor and some invader from Albania -- even if that invader was born in the U.S. -- is not treason.

Olenna was only the Queen of Thorns. Not the Queen of Westeros.

[RandyRanderson]

8 minutes ago, MrsR said:

Obsidian/dragonglass is going to make great arrow heads and spear tips.

 

Gendry is there because he's a Baratheon not because he's a smith.

 

So you take Randyll Tarly and Dickon up north with you and then you execute him once you get beyond the wall. Tie his corpse up and put it in a cage. Once it reanimates watch as his son bends the knee right quick. Then take him back to Cersei and show her, her brand new bannerman.

Was the blacksmith Gendry apprenticed under one of the few who knew how to reforge valyrian steel?  I thought that might come up when Gendry went into the dragonglass mine.  At the very least Winterfell or Castle Black could use him as a smith.

[screamin]

14 minutes ago, Francie said:

Olenna, as the leader of a house and a region, had no authority to align with Daenerys. It would be like the governor of New York aligning with Albania to come attack the United States.   So, sticking with your country and not following your governor and some invader from Albania -- even if that invader was born in the U.S. -- is not treason.

Olenna was only the Queen of Thorns. Not the Queen of Westeros.

Cersei's claim to Queen of Westeros is based on annihilating by fire the people trying to try her for murdering her husband the king (among other crimes), and leaving no one in KL strong enough to oppose her sitting on the Iron Throne. She has no legitimate blood claim to it. Meanwhile a lord's bannermen have an obligation of fealty to their lord - otherwise, Robb would have never been able to call his bannermen to war against the crown to begin with - an obligation of fealty Tarly chose to betray in Olenna's case. Tarly made his last choice out of xenophobic obstinacy, not honor.

Edited August 14, 2017 by screamin

[Neko]

I feel stupid, because when Cersei put her hands over her middle and said she and Jaime were fighting "for this", I thought it was a callback to Jaime's "the battle for Cersei's cunt" line, and that Cersei was really pointing to her hoo-ha.  Then, a split second later, I realized she was talking about another incest fetus.  I should have known, lol.

[Francie]

7 minutes ago, screamin said:

Cersei's claim to Queen of Westeros is based on annihilating by fire the people trying to try her for murdering her husband the king (among other crimes), and leaving no one in KL strong enough to oppose her sitting on the Iron Throne. She has no legitimate blood claim to it. Meanwhile a lord's bannermen have an obligation of fealty to their lord - otherwise, Robb would have never been able to call his bannermen to war against the crown to begin with - an obligation of fealty Tarly chose to betray in Olenna's case. Tarly made his last choice out of xenophobic obstinacy, not honor.

I absolutely agree that Tarly was swayed by xenophobia. 

I do disagree that Cersei blew up the sept so that she could sit on the iron throne. She meant for Tommen to sit in that seat. Granted, she knew she would wield a great deal of power, given his tractability. But an important distinction.  She didn't mean to take that throne for herself with that maneuver. 

[Edith]

40 minutes ago, aquarian1 said:

They committed treason against Olenna.  

If Randyll would had bend the knee, that would have become no issue for Dany. She burned them because they didn't. She gave them a choice. Is war.

[AshleyN]

On the one hand, the whole weight hunt plot seems really dumb, but on the other hand I loved everything about those last couple of scenes and next week looks amazing, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Seriously though, that scene in the cells in particular was fantastic and kind of felt like something out of an old Western: assembling our group of misfits, the airing of grievances from all sides, and Jon stepping up as leader and shutting it down with a hell of a line.

This was a really good Jon episode in general actually: the scene with the Drogon was obviously a huge standout, and I'm always happy when brooding Jon gives way too assertive Jon like it did in the council scene (and I got the sense there that Dany kind of respected him for it too).

If that's really it for the Maester plot than I'm kind of surprised they brought in Jim Broadbent for such a forgettable role.

The more I think about how casually they dropped in that bombshell about Jon being a legitimate Targ and then moved on, the more hilarious I find it. I'm imagining the people who were with the series from the start and have spend literally decades arguing about this subject all shitting themselves simultaneously.

2 hours ago, Blonde Gator said:

I really believe her winter costumes give her MUCH more gravitas than the little slips of silk she wore in prior seasons.  Clothing makes the Queen, LOL.

Hmm, I actually disagree there. Emilia Clarke is so tiny that all that heavy fabric overwhelms her somewhat IMO. I still think her best and most regal looks were the white dresses she wore in Mereen (probably the only good thing about Mereen tbh).

Edited August 14, 2017 by AshleyN

[MrWhyt]

28 minutes ago, MrsR said:

Obsidian/dragonglass is going to make great arrow heads and spear tips.

 

Gendry is there because he's a Baratheon not because he's a smith.

 

So you take Randyll Tarly and Dickon up north with you and then you execute him once you get beyond the wall. Tie his corpse up and put it in a cage. Once it reanimates watch as his son bends the knee right quick. Then take him back to Cersei and show her, her brand new bannerman.

I don't think there is any evidence (show-wise at least, been a while since I read the books) that the dead rise spontaneously. The dead rose at Hardhome cause the Night King told them too.