S01.E07: Fish in the Jailhouse

[formerlyfreedom]

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Matt, Jessica, and Luke embark on a desperate search. Colleen and Claire debate heroism. Elektra tries to recruit an all-important ally.

 

[Rascotes]

Anyone ever notice how Danny Rand, the fabled and supposedly invincible protector of a mystical land full of sacred warriors, loses pretty much every fight he gets into with anyone above Red Shirt status?

[Bec]

And the sight of that dragon skeleton is when Finn Jones realized he punched right through the fourth wall and fell back into Game of Thrones.

[MissL]

Well. This episode settled it. Danny Rand is an idiot. He couldn't tell Electra was trying to get him to hit the wall?! Idiot.  So glad I never watched Iron Fist.

[HunterHunted]

3 hours ago, MissL said:

Well. This episode settled it. Danny Rand is an idiot. He couldn't tell Electra was trying to get him to hit the wall?! Idiot.  So glad I never watched Iron Fist.

Especially after he learned that a previous Iron Fist had sealed it shut. I actually said "Don't light up your Fist down there dumbass!" I can't tell if it's his 6th grade education or that intellectually he doesn't have much in the way of smarts, but he's a series of colossally terrible decisions held together by Kung Fu, magic, and billions of dollars. At this point I'm of the opinion that Colleen Wing is with him less because she likes him and they have a common mission, and more because he needs an adult minder at all times. Notice Colleen is not with Danny when he storms into The Hand boardroom.

[thuganomics85]

I love how in almost all superhero stuff, any time they flashback to a character who had just died, they usually do it to show how "heroic" they are and whatnot, but of course here, the flashback just shows how Stick really was just a dick to everyone.  Elektra might be a full-blown nutcase now, but it's kind of fitting that she was the one that ended him.

I know there are storyline reasons why this has come about, but I still love that it's the penultimate episode and the gang is facing off with The Hand, but it's Colleen who is the fourth member instead of Danny.  Sure, he's busy getting led around by Elektra like a stupid puppy, but she's the one who gets to get to fight alongside Daredevil, Jessica, and Luke.  Yep, I don't care if the show is titled after him, I choosing to believe this more or less means Colleen is the true face of the Iron Fist show!

Seriously, Karen.  I love you, but at this point, even you have to know that Daredevil is truly who Matt is, and the chance of that ever changing is long gone.

I see the police chief has basically come off the assembly line of every blustering, "If doesn't work, your ass is grassed!" police chief in every show or film known to man kind.  Poor Misty.

Matt, Jessica, and Luke taking the metro was great.

[Cthulhudrew]

Whoa- so the "substance" that gives immortality, I'm guessing, is the blood of dragons, and the secret underneath NYC is the body of a dead, ancient dragon? Did not see that coming, but it's pretty cool if so.

[Oscirus]

Ok the fight framing sucks its too dark to see whats happening most of the time. 

 

But yea, Danny is an idiot and Colleen is doing the lords work by babysitting him. This feels like a dd and Iron fist story more than anything. Hell, Jessica's not even using her abilities. Not much else to say at this point.  It feels like the show is just going through the motions at the moment.

[JustaPerson]

I'm disappointed that we haven't gotten a decent Matt/Claire scene yet.

Edited August 19, 2017 by JustaPerson

[Bec]

I get that Matt and Claire has moved on from each other for a while, but on this show it's almost like they're total strangers! Though I suppose there isn't really time to get into some relationship drama with Luke realizing Claire has a past with Matt.

[AudienceofOne]

5 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Especially after he learned that a previous Iron Fist had sealed it shut. I actually said "Don't light up your Fist down there dumbass!" I can't tell if it's his 6th grade education or that intellectually he doesn't have much in the way of smarts, but he's a series of colossally terrible decisions held together by Kung Fu, magic, and billions of dollars. At this point I'm of the opinion that Colleen Wing is with him less because she likes him and they have a common mission, and more because he needs an adult minder at all times. Notice Colleen is not with Danny when he storms into The Hand boardroom.

I just keep telling myself that his characterisation is super consistent. I love how even Colleen is like 'he's just a 10 year old'!

But since we're on the topic, Elektra remains woefully characterised. I have no idea what she's doing or why most of the time. 

I'm disappointed Claire hasn't interacted with Matt. 

[MissL]

6 hours ago, Bec said:

I get that Matt and Claire has moved on from each other for a while, but on this show it's almost like they're total strangers! Though I suppose there isn't really time to get into some relationship drama with Luke realizing Claire has a past with Matt.

Right?  I'm trying to figure out if they even had a scene together the whole series? And all the sidekicks hung out for hours in the police station but Trish was MIA most the time and we didn't see very many of them interact outside their circle. That's just weird.

And I never finished Daredevil season 2 because ...I don't know maybe  because Karen annoys me a little but really? Is she that awful about him not helping people on the show? Foggy too? That's ridiculous and heartbreaking for poor Matt.  I DO NOT ship them.  

Edited August 19, 2017 by MissL
Because I forgot what episode I was commenting on!

[bettername2come]

Jessica just waking up in an interrogation room seems illegal. And Matt too elsewhere. "I wasn't wearing the suit." "I know. There is a God after all." Love the protectiveness of Danny. I love Colleen and Claire's interactions. I love Matt in lawyer mode. "There is no plan." "I can tell." I've liked Misty in this series. Aw, Matt and Foggy hugged. And he brought the suit! "That's what family's for." I love how clueless NYPD is about Matt. What is it going to take to get me a scene with all four Defenders and Claire? Colleen with the explosives is badass. Dammit, Danny.

[wayne67]

I have to say I'm getting sick of all these wet blankets who are trying to stop these people from saving lives. 

Matt's 'friends' seem the worst, especially Karen who I don't know and already dislike immensely. 

[Sakura12]

19 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Especially after he learned that a previous Iron Fist had sealed it shut. I actually said "Don't light up your Fist down there dumbass!" I can't tell if it's his 6th grade education or that intellectually he doesn't have much in the way of smarts, but he's a series of colossally terrible decisions held together by Kung Fu, magic, and billions of dollars. At this point I'm of the opinion that Colleen Wing is with him less because she likes him and they have a common mission, and more because he needs an adult minder at all times. Notice Colleen is not with Danny when he storms into The Hand boardroom.

I wanted to see Electra and Danny fight because the crazy psycho that she is Elektra is 100x smarter than Danny. Of course my 5 month old puppy is probably smarter than Danny. It's also not surprising that she's a better fighter then him because everyone's a better a fighter then him. Without the glowing fist, he's no better than the many nameless goons they are always fighting. 

I don't know what they are doing with Karen. She just found out Matt's DD and her immediate hating on it was annoying especially since she was all for the Punisher. If Matt want's to be Daredevil he should, it's really no business of hers or Foggy's. 

[Helena Dax]

I'd like to say that I thought for a moment that Danny couldn't possibly be so dumb, but I'd be lying. The moment I saw the wall, I knew he'd punch it. We all knew it. God bless him * pats his head* 

Loved Jessica's expression when she saw Matt in his DD suit, lol. 

Karen sounds like a broken record, she's pretty boring. I was going to say the same about Foggy but he gave Matt the suit at the end, so there's that. 

The fight looked pretty good, but it was too dark. 

Edited August 20, 2017 by Helena Dax

[AudienceofOne]

36 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

I don't know what they are doing with Karen. She just found out Matt's DD and her immediate hating on it was annoying especially since she was all for the Punisher. If Matt want's to be Daredevil he should, it's really no business of hers or Foggy's. 

 I got really bored with Daredevil Season 2 once I realised that Elektra wasn't going away. But they implied in this that it was Matt's decision to put away the costume. At one point, I think Foggy even used the word 'addict' or something. In that case, Karen and Foggy are just acting to support their friend's decision. Much like sponsors for an alcoholic. I'm not saying this isn't kind of dumb and a little annoying. But if your friend says "I have a problem, please help save me from myself" then you help them in exactly this way. Karen's trying to do what Matt asked her to do.

[arjumand]

19 hours ago, MissL said:

And I never finished Daredevil season 2 because ...I don't know maybe  because Karen annoys me a little but really? Is she that awful about him not helping people on the show? Foggy too? That's ridiculous and heartbreaking for poor Matt.  I DO NOT ship them.  

I managed to finish it because I just followed the Punisher storyline, and just ignored anything to do with Karen (unless she was with Frank Castle), Foggy and Electra. Because yes, Karen and Foggy were that self-righteous and annoying.

Also, at one point during this episode I screamed at Karen to "shut the fuck up!" Seriously, she and Foggy became the annoying wife in so many cop/FBI shows, who knows what job her husband has when she marries him, but whines endlessly about him not being there for his family. Ugh.

And this show? "It doesn't matter that New York is going to be destroyed! Don't be a vigilante!"

Maybe that's why I really liked a character played by Jon Bernthal in season 2 of Daredevil, when I usually can't stand the actor. Everyone bored me, except the Punisher.

And in the Defenders, I liked Jessica, and Luke, and I've always liked Danny (yes, even on his own series) - but Matt and Elektra? Whatever.

Edited August 20, 2017 by arjumand

[Ottis]

This show has crossed over into disappointing. Danny is either whining or losing - he's always stupid. Loved ones are living full time in a police station with no apparent issues. The horrible, terrible threat to the city is... a black out?

im enjoying Jessica's meta take on the silliness of the plot. This show would have been better served to have a more normal enemy and less mysticism. 

I just hope the next plot isn't centered around the good guys being branded bad guys and spending half the show hiding from cops. That would be an incredible waste.

By the way, the solution of taking down one building to stop a global organization makes no sense. You can't keep saying how terrible the hand is, and then say well, one action and we're all safe. 

The only other part I liked was how each character is finally owning that this is their lives. Let's get on with it already. 

Edited August 20, 2017 by Ottis

[tennisgurl]

Dragons! Yes! Can we have the Defenders fight a giant freaking dragon next season? Because that sounds awesome. I know some people don't like the more mystical, weirder aspects of the MCU, but I love them, and think its a big part of why the setting works so well. You can tell basically any kind of story you want, because the setting allows for so much, and its fun to see different genres interact with each other. Oh what I would do to get to watch Jessica fight a dragon.

Yeah, I totally knew that Danny would accidently open up the gate. Oh Danny. I actually wondered if he meant to use the Iron Fist, or if it just kind of happened because he was so pissed off. I knew Danny would lose to Elektra but it was a pretty decent fight anyway. I also love how the whole gang was like "Hey assholes, only WE get to kick the crap out of Danny and tell him what a dumbass he is! Not you creeps!" Its kind of adorable. Danny really is just their dorky little brother who doesn't really know how the world works. I guess that happens when your raised to just guard a door.

I get why Karen and Foggy don't want Matt to be a crime fighter (Matt himself really struggles with his violent tendencies), but its getting pretty old. Every since Elektra showed up, Matts relationships with Foggy and Karen have been put on the backburner, leaving them with "stop going out and fighting crime even though its the whole point of the freaking show" every episode, which is a real waste. I am glad that Foggy brought him the suit though (Matts smile seemed to say that matt saw it as Foggy accepting Matts DD life) and the hug and "that's what families are for" hit me right in the feels. I miss their Nelson and Murdoch days.

It seems like Misty and Claire are going to form the "How the hell did their weirdness become my life?" club. I'm sure Trish will make Tee shirts!

22 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

Loved Jessica's expression when she saw Matt in his DD suit, lol. 

That was so great! She is never going to get over that outfit.

[wayne67]

15 hours ago, Ottis said:

By the way, the solution of taking down one building to stop a global organization makes no sense. You can't keep saying how terrible the hand is, and then say well, one action and we're all safe. 

I think the idea is that if you kill the leaders of the global organisation, there will be a power vacuum and the confusion will make it easier to hunt down and destroy the low level and mid level soldiers.

That said it ignores that a power vacuum is historically dangerous as leaders who value discretion and money are replaced with new leaders who want to make a name for themselves with mass murder. 

[VCRTracking]

I did a fist pump when Matt told Karen "This is my life."

Edited August 21, 2017 by VCRTracking

[WatchrTina]

I liked the part where Darth Vader threatened Luke's sister and that made him lose control and start swinging his glowing light saber . . . . oh no, I mean the part where Elecktra admits she was the one who killed everyone in K'un Lun and that made Danny lose control and start swinging his glowing iron fist. . . . and inadvertently open the double-secret / do-not-open / sealed door to the dragon crypt.

I'm am enjoying this show.  The fights are entertaining and Jessica makes me laugh.  But I keep finding myself thinking "Poor Finn. What must he have thought when he read the scripts and realized how much time Danny spends either tied up or fucking up this season."  The man has a thankless task.  I applaud him for doing what he could with it.  It has to be hard to play the naif surrounded by two masters of snark and one guy who manages to maneuver effectively in both worlds (the corporate and the super-hero) in a way that Danny just has NOT figured out.  

[formerlyfreedom]

35 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

 But I keep finding myself thinking "Poor Finn. What must he have thought when he read the scripts and realized how much time Danny spends either tied up or fucking up this season."  The man has a thankless task.  I applaud him for doing what he could with it.  It has to be hard to play the naif surrounded by two masters of snark and one guy who manages to maneuver effectively in both worlds (the corporate and the super-hero) in a way that Danny just has NOT figured out.  

I agree with this so much. I don't really blame Finn for the mess that is Danny. I think it's a really hard role, and it's not well written or presented. I actually think he elevates some of the writing, especially when he's playing against Mike Colter.

[Miles]

Dany Rand and Digital Guacamole... the bland leading the bland.

Also how dumb is Dany that he fell for that and activated his fist? I saw it coming from a mile away and so did everybody else here. I guess it is consistent with his character though?

Edited August 22, 2017 by Miles

[Loandbehold]

Sure Dany was an immature idiot who did exactly the wrong thing at precisely the wrong time. Still, it was just so enjoyable watching Electra beat the shit out of him. 

[Kel Varnsen]

On 8/20/2017 at 10:12 AM, Ottis said:

By the way, the solution of taking down one building to stop a global organization makes no sense. You can't keep saying how terrible the hand is, and then say well, one action and we're all safe. 

From what I gather if you take down the building there goes the only source of immortality juice for Gow and her friends. If the leaders of The Hand suddenly have a lifespan it takes a lot of power from their organization.

On 8/19/2017 at 11:14 AM, MissL said:

Right?  I'm trying to figure out if they even had a scene together the whole series? And all the sidekicks hung out for hours in the police station but Trish was MIA most the time and we didn't see very many of them interact outside their circle. That's just weird.

Totally not enough Trish, especially since Claire picked up those metal claws in Iron Fist. I really thought she would pass them onto Trish and we would see Hellcat.

[ohjoy]

Rewatched parts of this tonight. Jessica's absolute disdain for Matt's Daredevil suit is hilarious-- especially when the camera pans over from Luke and Jessica's conversation outside Midland Circle to reveal Matt as if he's just walked up, and Jessica deadpans, "There it is, again" while side-eyeing the suit. She's definitely MVP of the series.

[Ottis]

10 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

From what I gather if you take down the building there goes the only source of immortality juice for Gow and her friends. If the leaders of The Hand suddenly have a lifespan it takes a lot of power from their organization.

Exactly. So this very powerful organization has determined there is only *one* source of immortality juice in the world, (assumption), and it is critical to their continued immortality, and so they have ... taken their time gathering it, risking their untimely deaths in the meantime?  And they have done so by all going to the same place, risking their entire leadership? What have they been using until now as the source of immortality, and where did that supply come from? If Dragons are the source, shouldn't they have 10,000 digs going on around the world, looking for them?  Or efforts to synthasize it? Seems like this is a pretty singular focus for such a long-lived and powerful organization.

As Spock said of Khan, and apparently The Hand, "He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking.."

[blueray]

I feel like I missed something but how did they make it look like they kidnapped Matt? How dumb are the cops not to realize he clearly was involved with them? Or even let them alone in a room together? Obviously, I'm not including Misty but she already knew more then the rest of the cops and is on their side. They may not know he's daredevil, but they would know that he clearly knows more then what he is telling them and that he wanted to find Danny.

Edited August 23, 2017 by blueray

[Danny Franks]

Jessica speaking for everyone regarding the Hand. "This is the dumbest...."

I understand that they needed to find an enemy that could seem threatening enough to make Matt, Jessica, Luke and Danny join forces, but the Hand really suck as villains. Especially when you see Elektra easily dispatch their boss, take over the organisation and the other Fingers all just cower before her. They're all bloody useless! How did they ever survive for however many hundreds of years they have without being put out of business a dozen times?

Again, this episode highlighted how superfluous Danny Rand is as a character. While he's off being kidnapped, the other three are working together and feeling like a team, like they trust each other. Danny has been completely separate from that. They honestly should have just gone with three Defenders and given them a mystical artifact to protect. I also don't really understand why Elektra is so desperate to gain the power of the Hand. She remembers who she is, so I guess we should just take it for granted that she's semi-evil now. Because while she was self-centred and difficult in Daredevil, I felt like she was someone who would find her moral core, when it came right down to it.

It wasn't very fair of them to put Finn Jones and Elodie Yung in a fight scene together. Because her grace and poise just made him look even more flatfooted and clumsy.

But good on Colleen, finally deciding to stop sitting around and do her part to save Danny. Fretting and pacing in a police station does not a strong heroine make. Maybe she should have been the fourth Defender. And I'm glad both she and Claire indicated Luke should stow his paternalistic bullshit.

The cut from from them discussing how to get to Midland Circle, to the three of them sitting on the subway was great. There have been a few moments like that, in this show, where you can see what it could have been, if the writing had just been a little bit better. Same goes for Jess stealing and necking that beer.

Good for Foggy, coming through with the right message for Matt, and for finally understanding the stakes. He, at least, seems to see that Matt is Daredevil because he has to be, not because he wants to be. Oh sure, there's that visceral thrill of leaping about and beating people up that Matt enjoys, but I think his own show, and this one, have shown that he can, and would, leave it if he felt he could. But he seems to be realising he can't. When he told Karen, "this is my life" it wasn't with any sense of satisfaction or anticipation. He just knows that he's never going to get away from being Daredevil.

Definitely not enough Trish or Malcolm. The little bits of them we've had have just made me even more eager for Jessica Jones season 2, and hopefully for Trish Walker, Hellcat (though Rachael Taylor will need to put a bit more muscle on her frame, to convince).

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I don't know what they are doing with Karen. She just found out Matt's DD and her immediate hating on it was annoying especially since she was all for the Punisher. If Matt want's to be Daredevil he should, it's really no business of hers or Foggy's. 

I think she's just worried for Matt, not that she thinks he's wrong. Karen has displayed a somewhat callous approach to justice in the past, and she idolised Daredevil before she knew who he was. As you say, she also saw eye to eye with Frank Castle on some of his points. But she loves Matt, and she's seen how often he's been hurt, she's seen the people he's gone up against. It makes sense to me that she'd be all for him not doing the thing that kept getting him hurt.

Edited August 25, 2017 by Danny Franks

[LilJen]

On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 10:12 AM, Ottis said:

By the way, the solution of taking down one building to stop a global organization makes no sense. You can't keep saying how terrible the hand is, and then say well, one action and we're all safe.

This. Why do they all think--Colleen especially--that blowing up the building will end the threat and take care of the Hand forever? You gotta know that there are immortality-inducing dragon bones somewhere else on earth!

Edited September 16, 2017 by LilJen

[Kel Varnsen]

On 19/08/2017 at 9:17 PM, Sakura12 said:

I don't know what they are doing with Karen. She just found out Matt's DD and her immediate hating on it was annoying especially since she was all for the Punisher. If Matt want's to be Daredevil he should, it's really no business of hers or Foggy's. 

After watching the Punisher I kind of get this. I really think that Karen thinks that Frank has some kind of psychotic break when his kids and wife were killed. That is what is driving him to kill people as revenge. Along with that she has a ton of sympathy for him because of his loss. On top of that he operates on a code only killing people that hurt him. Matt on the other hand,  i think Karen sees as a guy who just likes punching people and putting himself in danger for fun, without any of the backstory or motivation that Frank has.

[Lady Calypso]

So, with Danny's utter stupidity, I'm glad I never watched Iron Fist. I like Colleen better than Danny. Can she be the lead in Iron Fist instead of Dumbass Danny? Matt's even smarter than this guy, and Matt's made a lot of stupid mistakes for love. 

Yeah, the Hand has been boring me for a few episodes now. We're an episode away from being done and I STILL don't know what their purpose is, besides blowing up New York or whatever. They needed to get to the plot three episodes ago. However, Elektra just did a better job than all five members of the Hand. 

I liked the Matt/Foggy scene at the beginning. It really is great to get some scenes with them, especially knowing how strained their relationship is (all because of Matt, of course). But Charlie Cox sold that scene well, with his confusion and need to get out of there while trying to deal with a resurrected Elektra. As for Karen, I get her worrying, but she's also the one who sympathized with Frank in Daredevil, so I think she's biased toward one while not fully understanding what Matt does and why he does it. I think that should be a big part of DD season 3, which would be needed to bring Matt, Foggy, and Karen closer together again. 

It was funny to see the police underestimate Matt because of their lack of knowledge of his abilities. I also like that Matt, at least, has Foggy as a friend to think about what happens to him and Daredevil after all of this is over. Too bad Foggy's assumption is that Matt will put away the suit for good, while it's clear that Matt is not putting the suit away. 

I will say, even with Jessica and Luke without a costume, and Matt in his ridiculous Daredevil costume, they still look like a better team than the three of them with Danny. 

Yep; I also loved Elektra beating Danny up. It was very satisfying.