The Lonely Js Club: James, Jackson & Johannah

[Defrauder]

26 minutes ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

Apparently I speak autocorrect because I just know that "as choke" = "asshole."

JoyAnna, Johanna, and Jana. And Anna. Josiah, Joseph (there's a Joseph?), and Josie. I still wonder why the boys mostly have obviously biblical names, but the girls don't (unless misspelled: Jordyn). To me, it makes the Duggar boys even more amorphous, if that is the word I want. 

I really cringe at these birthday announcements to the world. The most recent ones seem even more obviously designed to demonstrate that the parents actually know some individual traits of the kid. But they're still pretty generic since all the kids are being raised to be the same person. Same skills, same "servant's heart" or whatever. The Duggar checklist. 

I still want to know how they demonstrate having a servant's heart. Does it mean that they follow orders well? or that they serve Gid by yapping bible verses at defenseless (nursing home) or random (Internet) people? To me, it suggests someone like Jimmy Carter, providing genuine, specific service to people to people in need. I wonder if the Duggars ever do anything like that, especially without expecting the recipient to listen to "preaching."

This Josiah thing really is like a Christian mingle ad, with the added bonus of Mommy and Daddy giving the testimonials. Sheesh. 

I think the boys have biblical names because they are the 'leaders' in all things biblical, while the girls get non biblical names because they are not worthy to interpret the bible on their own and can not lead.   

You and me both about cringing at the public birthday announcements.  Let's not forget the public anniversary letters and videos.  Love what you said about all of the kids bring raised to be the same person - the generic Duggar.

The 'servant's heart', Duggar-speak for here we are telling you how great we are and therefore serving you and getting paid for it. 

Edited August 31, 2016 by Defrauder
spelling

[laurakaye]

18 hours ago, Malvina said:

Go, Josiah, go!!!  Burn rubber, be free!!

[CofCinci]

I'm sure he wishes he could really burn some rubber. On Fire Island. 

[laurakaye]

1 hour ago, CofCinci said:

I'm sure he wishes he could really burn some rubber. On Fire Island. 

You think?  I've always wondered, in a family that big...

[abstractstuff]

Why do people insist on bringing up the gay thing with Josiah constantly? And the WAY it's brought up..  It's honestly disturbing and gross. It's the same comments I would expect from simple minded bullies like his father and elder brothers. Christ.. How horrible for him if he is, having to endure the hell that tiny snippets have given hints to already. Seriously..  It's not funny. It's gross. 

Edited August 31, 2016 by abstractstuff

[CofCinci]

10 hours ago, abstractstuff said:

Why do people insist on bringing up the gay thing with Josiah constantly? And the WAY it's brought up..  It's honestly disturbing and gross. It's the same comments I would expect from simple minded bullies like his father and elder brothers. Christ.. How horrible for him if he is, having to endure the hell that tiny snippets have given hints to already. Seriously..  It's not funny. It's gross. 

They sent the kid to a Conversion camp to butch him up. 

[Churchhoney]

On 8/30/2016 at 5:25 PM, Defrauder said:

No helmet?  OK I'm a mother.  

Arkansas had a helmet law but repealed it at some point. If you're under 21, you're still required to wear one, though. (The mom vote was strong, even in Arkansas.) So Josiah's illegal there. Just aspiring to be old enough to risk life-destroying brain damage, I guess.

[ariel]

12 hours ago, abstractstuff said:

Why do people insist on bringing up the gay thing with Josiah constantly? And the WAY it's brought up..  It's honestly disturbing and gross. It's the same comments I would expect from simple minded bullies like his father and elder brothers. Christ.. How horrible for him if he is, having to endure the hell that tiny snippets have given hints to already. Seriously..  It's not funny. It's gross. 

You think being gay is "disturbing and gross"?

[Arwen Evenstar]

13 hours ago, abstractstuff said:

Why do people insist on bringing up the gay thing with Josiah constantly? And the WAY it's brought up..  It's honestly disturbing and gross. It's the same comments I would expect from simple minded bullies like his father and elder brothers. Christ.. How horrible for him if he is, having to endure the hell that tiny snippets have given hints to already. Seriously..  It's not funny. It's gross. 

Josiah looks like a really sweet kid.  Even though not all boys want to be jocks, that alone doesn't give my gaydar an automatic ping.  He's expressed a desire to be an accountant, so that gave me the impression he's more of a bookish and shyer kid to begin with.

Personally, I could care less if he's really gay or not, and he has made my gaydar Ping, but what worries me more is the level of suffering he'd have to endure living at the TTH not being allowed to be who he is if that's really the case. 

I'd like to think in today's society that being gay isn't the big freaking shocking deal it used to be, but most in Fundieland, they're still in the dark ages when it comes to accepting "that sort of thing".  Josiah seems much more open minded than most of the Duggar kids, so I'd hate to see that sweet and gentle kid manhandled by Boob.  KJB is a tyrant and a bully and it's his way or the highway, and Si knows it. Poor kid has been isolated from the rest of the world,so it's not like he's got anywhere else to go. Most people, regardless of orientation, have enough bumps in the road figuring out "who" they are as an individual away from their family of origin. Duggar parenting short circuited that journey for all their kids.

On another note, after the humiliating birthday video, where's the Duggar drippy sundae picture? 

[NewDigs]

On August 30, 2016 at 5:25 PM, Defrauder said:

No helmet?  OK I'm a mother.  

I guess my expectations-bar is really low with re: Duggars.

I assumed he just posed on a parked bike! 

On August 30, 2016 at 6:40 PM, JoanArc said:

Does the license plate say 'Pussy'?

That's where my mind went.

[laurakaye]

43 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Josiah looks like a really sweet kid.  Even though not all boys want to be jocks, that alone doesn't give my gaydar an automatic ping.  He's expressed a desire to be an accountant, so that gave me the impression he's more of a bookish and shyer kid to begin with.

Personally, I could care less if he's really gay or not, and he has made my gaydar Ping, but what worries me more is the level of suffering he'd have to endure living at the TTH not being allowed to be who he is if that's really the case. 

I'd like to think in today's society that being gay isn't the big freaking shocking deal it used to be, but most in Fundieland, they're still in the dark ages when it comes to accepting "that sort of thing".  Josiah seems much more open minded than most of the Duggar kids, so I'd hate to see that sweet and gentle kid manhandled by Boob.  KJB is a tyrant and a bully and it's his way or the highway, and Si knows it. Poor kid has been isolated from the rest of the world,so it's not like he's got anywhere else to go. Most people, regardless of orientation, have enough bumps in the road figuring out "who" they are as an individual away from their family of origin. Duggar parenting short circuited that journey for all their kids.

On another note, after the humiliating birthday video, where's the Duggar drippy sundae picture? 

All of this is very well-said, especially the bolded line.  These kids, gay or straight or whatever they are deep in their souls is completely meaningless, because they have one road to take, and that's JB's road.  I wonder if JB and Michelle have ever discussed the possibility, or is it simply a non-issue because that's how they want it to be?  Is sexual orientation something that they believe can be prayed away?

As the Duggar kids get older and we start knowing their personalities, I find myself rooting for one or two of them to break away, and lead the others to realize that there is so much more in the world for them than what they know.  At the moment I seem to have the most empathy for John David, who seems extremely shy, has a good, solid work ethic, but also has the burden of his older brother's crap to deal with, feels like he needs to be the leader of his brothers and the watcher of his sisters, so at the end of the day, there's nothing left over for him.  His eyes seem palpably sad when he talks, IMO.

[abstractstuff]

I don't know how what I said made anyone think I was saying gay people are gross. I know Josiah 'pings' and when he is discussed, it is almost always brought up. Speaking about it in general isn't what ticks me off. It's when it is brought up in such a way that just reeks of how I can just imagine his father or bullies talking about him. Like wanting to burn rubber in Fire Island, which in itself comes across not too favorably of gay people. It also seems to usually come from people who think the Duggars are homophobic, hateful fear mongers. (Yes) Then, I read comment after comment about "feral Josie licking things" and flaming Josiah wanting to go out and stereotype the hell out of things. Oh well, it is what it is, and people are free to discuss how they choose. Just wanted to say how sometimes things come across to me. 

[ariel]

32 minutes ago, abstractstuff said:

Then, I read comment after comment about "feral Josie licking things" and flaming Josiah wanting to go out and stereotype the hell out of things. Oh well, it is what it is, and people are free to discuss how they choose. Just wanted to say how sometimes things come across to me. 

Maybe this forum isn't a good fit for you.

Edited September 1, 2016 by ariel

[abstractstuff]

This forum is just fine. I'm able to make my own decisions and convey my own thoughts unlike the poor Duggar children. If grown folks feel better about themselves bullying the children of 2 deranged monsters, that's on them. So many things to snark on. The sexual preference of a sheltered, abused young man, and the obvious developmental problems of a 6 year old, seem to be much more of a reflection of the commenters, not the family.  But, to each their own. And that's all I am going to say about the situation. Have a good one. 

[ariel]

3 minutes ago, abstractstuff said:

This forum is just fine. I'm able to make my own decisions and convey my own thoughts unlike the poor Duggar children. If grown folks feel better about themselves bullying the children of 2 deranged monsters, that's on them. So many things to snark on. The sexual preference of a sheltered, abused young man, and the obvious developmental problems of a 6 year old, seem to be much more of a reflection of the commenters, not the family.  But, to each their own. And that's all I am going to say about the situation. Have a good one. 

You do realize that none of this conversation would happen if the Duggars didn't put themselves on TV.

[bigskygirl]

Quick reminder: Please talk about the show and not each other. If you do not agree with someone else's post, please use the Ignore Feature. If you have any questions about how to use the feature, please feel free to send a PM to one of the mods. Thank you.

[Absolom]

6 hours ago, CofCinci said:

They sent the kid to a Conversion camp to butch him up. 

Not really.  They sent him to ALERT but that is not a conversion camp.  It's an all purpose religious indoctrination adventure.

[kokapetl]

He said in the last episode that he's both city and country. He's bi.

Edited September 1, 2016 by Kokapetl

[lulu69]

3 hours ago, Kokapetl said:

He said in the last episode that he's both city and country. He's bi.

Yup, just earned yourself another trip to JTTH/ALERT Koka  lol

[CofCinci]

7 hours ago, Absolom said:

Not really.  They sent him to ALERT but that is not a conversion camp.  It's an all purpose religious indoctrination adventure.

I consider ALERT to be a conversion-type camp. There's a reason why JB sent an able-bodied son away for a year and it's not to learn how to fight zombies for Christ.  Josh molested his sisters and was only sent away to renovate that Hobby Lobby for four months!!!   They punished this kid more than Josh -- They'd only do that if he was gay.  JB is all about the money. For Josiah to be gone for so long and not making money for Pimp Daddy JB, there's more to the ALERT/gay story...

Edited September 2, 2016 by CofCinci

[GeeGolly]

Josiah was gone for a year?!?

[Absolom]

It still doesn't follow the conversion camp formula so to me that makes a big difference in describing it.  True conversion camps are even worse.

[Sew Sumi]

2 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Josiah was gone for a year?!?

No, it was more like 7-8 months all told. 

[CofCinci]

7 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

No, it was more like 7-8 months all told. 

That was the 32-week program but didn't he go for some follow-up camps too?

Another son went for just 8 weeks. 

I'm ashamed that I know so much about the Duggar. I'm not ashamed about making jokes about Josiah. These are terrible people who want to strip rights and safety away from entire populations of people. Fuck 'em and anyone else who can't take a joke. Like Josiah would say, if you can take a dick, you can take a joke. Or was that Tracy Morgan?

[queenanne]

7 hours ago, Absolom said:

Not really.  They sent him to ALERT but that is not a conversion camp.  It's an all purpose religious indoctrination adventure.

I like how jauntily you put it, lol.

[Arwen Evenstar]

11 hours ago, abstractstuff said:

I don't know how what I said made anyone think I was saying gay people are gross. I know Josiah 'pings' and when he is discussed, it is almost always brought up. Speaking about it in general isn't what ticks me off. It's when it is brought up in such a way that just reeks of how I can just imagine his father or bullies talking about him. Like wanting to burn rubber in Fire Island, which in itself comes across not too favorably of gay people. It also seems to usually come from people who think the Duggars are homophobic, hateful fear mongers. (Yes) Then, I read comment after comment about "feral Josie licking things" and flaming Josiah wanting to go out and stereotype the hell out of things. Oh well, it is what it is, and people are free to discuss how they choose. Just wanted to say how sometimes things come across to me. 

Thanks for clarifying.  I'm sure most of us did understand that you were saying that you didn't think it necessary to use vulgarity to describe someone's orientation, rather than being bothered by anyone suggesting Josiah might be gay.

i am guilty of saying Josie licks things, but I hope it's understood that myself and others are snarking on the lousy job her parents and older siblings are doing by LETTING her do it.   I find it not only unsanitary for her but also that it's disturbing behavior that indicates something is clearly wrong with her.   She always looks unkempt and dirty and matted, as though they are not looking after her. I just want to scoop her up and love on that poor little urchin.

No child who has challenges or is unsure of his /her gender/sexual orientation should ever be mocked.  I could see how that might come off to newcomers or infrequent posters that we are doing just that. It's easy to be misunderstood. You made a very good point in saying so.

Anyhoo, sending Si and the other kids to ALERT rather than dealing with them seems like a form of abuse to me.  Ever heard of this hellhole called Hepzibah House? Not to get OT, but that's one of many places that Fundies and others send their non compliant children to "be dealt with". It's child abuse by proxy when it's the sort of places that physically and/or emotionally abuse/humiliate the program members, and even more insidious under the guise of "Christian character building".

[Churchhoney]

21 hours ago, laurakaye said:

Is sexual orientation something that they believe can be prayed away?

Well, if you believe that having the "wrong" sexual orientation is a choice and a sin (they do) and you believe that God isn't a complete and total jerk (their beliefs on that are more debatable, I'd say ...), then you'd pretty much have to, I think. Although I don't remember anything about them actually saying this publicly. They've been more on the condemn! freak out! end of things. Not surprisingly, I suppose.

[Churchhoney]

10 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Thanks for clarifying.  I'm sure most of us did understand that you were saying that you didn't think it necessary to use vulgarity to describe someone's orientation, rather than being bothered by anyone suggesting Josiah might be gay.

i am guilty of saying Josie licks things, but I hope it's understood that myself and others are snarking on the lousy job her parents and older siblings are doing by LETTING her do it.   I find it not only unsanitary for her but also that it's disturbing behavior that indicates something is clearly wrong with her.   She always looks unkempt and dirty and matted, as though they are not looking after her. I just want to scoop her up and love on that poor little urchin.

No child who has challenges or is unsure of his /her gender/sexual orientation should ever be mocked.  I could see how that might come off to newcomers or infrequent posters that we are doing just that. It's easy to be misunderstood. You made a very good point in saying so.

Anyhoo, sending Si and the other kids to ALERT rather than dealing with them seems like a form of abuse to me.  Ever heard of this hellhole called Hepzibah House? Not to get OT, but that's one of many places that Fundies and others send their non compliant children to "be dealt with". It's child abuse by proxy when it's the sort of places that physically and/or emotionally abuse/humiliate the program members, and even more insidious under the guise of "Christian character building".

Well, it's been a long-term program of the GOthard empire to have as many kids as possible sent to such places that follow the Goth Gard way. Theyve tried to institutionalize this way beyond the cult itself, although they finally got into trouble with it in Illinois. Not surprising that the Duggs go completely along with their fetishist hero in this, really.

[laurakaye]

11 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

No, it was more like 7-8 months all told. 

Regarding Josiah - was he the only one who went to "camp" for so long, or did some of the other Duggar boys go for the same amount of time?

And regarding Josie, who is her "buddy?"  She doesn't seem to have anyone accountable for her.  It's clear that Michelle and JB don't care what she does, and that's unspeakably sad.

[Sew Sumi]

No other Duggars boy went to ALERT for more than the 9 week general session. Smuggar and JD didn't go at all, and AFAIK, Jed has yet to attend, although Jeer went not that long ago. 

What IS interesting is this recent development of some of the boys going to JTTH. If any had gone before, they didn't talk about it at all, and no one found pictures.

As for Josie, Jana is her Buddy. I think she also has Jackson. With everything else she has to do, it's no surprise these kids (as well as Jenni and Jordyn, whose buddies left them - not like Jordyn had one to begin with, really) look so neglected aside from possibly Hannie, whose Buddy is Jinger. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

8 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

No other Duggars boy went to ALERT for more than the 9 week general session. Smuggar and JD didn't go at all, and AFAIK, Jed has yet to attend, although Jeer went not that long ago. 

What IS interesting is this recent development of some of the boys going to JTTH. If any had gone before, they didn't talk about it at all, and no one found pictures.

As for Josie, Jana is her Buddy. I think she also has Jackson. With everything else she has to do, it's no surprise these kids (as well as Jenni and Jordyn, whose buddies left them - not like Jordyn had one to begin with, really) look so neglected aside from possibly Hannie, whose Buddy is Jinger. 

I wonder if they even had ALERT when Smuggar and JD were coming up. We would have heard about it. Whatever is "the done thing" in Fundy circles, the Dugg kids have to do it. 

The number of sister mommies is dwindling. Now there's just Jana and Joy. I'm wondering when Jana is going to lose her shit. Though I don't wish a laundry room breakdown on anyone, I know I would've lost my shit YEARS ago having to deal with The Howlers and The Lost Girls and being tormented by Mean Girls Jill and Jessa. Poor, poor Jana.

[fonfereksglen]

Just now, Arwen Evenstar said:

I wonder if they even had ALERT when Smuggar and JD were coming up. We would have heard about it. Whatever is "the done thing" in Fundy circles, the Dugg kids have to do it. 

The number of sister mommies is dwindling. Now there's just Jana and Joy. I'm wondering when Jana is going to lose her shit. Though I don't wish a laundry room breakdown on anyone, I know I would've lost my shit YEARS ago having to deal with The Howlers and The Lost Girls and being tormented by Mean Girls Jill and Jessa. Poor, poor Jana.

ALERT has been around for years.  The quasi military compound used to be located near Watersmeet, MI.  I've previously written about the adventure my husband and I had  at that facility in 2001, during the course of a routine background investigation of one of their former students.  That's 15 years ago.  It is something neither of us will ever forget.  The law enforcement people in that small, rural, area were thrilled when they moved away.  

[Sew Sumi]

Arwen, I am 100% sure that one of the older boys (maybe Joe or Josiah) came out and said that all of the boys had been to ALERT except for Smugs and JD (this pre-dates the boy twin's involvement...he went while they were in a short taping hiatus). JD might have even said it. I just know it wasn't Smuggar. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

Thanks, ya'll for answering my questions.  Was Si sent to aALERT before or after his courtship with Marjorie?

I want to take Si away from the Stinkertoy House and let him be whoever he wants to be with no judgment from anyone.

[Sew Sumi]

Si got out of ALERT right before his 18th birthday, IIRC, or he was just about to get out then. So, this would be BM (2014). Marjorie was Spring/early Summer 2015. I think she got out before Joshgate II struck in August, although I may be misremembering that point.

[Barb23]

Wasn't it Joe they showed graduating from Alert on the show?  IIRC, he won some type of award for bible memorization. This was also the time that Boob tried to make him laugh while in formation.  Too bad none of the boys went on for further training  past the general session.  I know it's very expensive & courses not accredited, but it would be something. Oops I forgot, that would mean Boob not being able to control them as much. That won't be happening. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

Boob is such a cheapskate, I'm surprised any of them got to go.

[Sew Sumi]

Josiah went for 4 "tours." 

And I bet that all trips have been comped quid pro quo. I doubt Boob paid a dime. Same goes for the girls at JTTH. Not sure about the guys there; that's kind of a gender bender for the leghumpers who think it's just for girls. I wonder if said humpers know there is ALERT for girls, although it has a different name.

[Malvina]

[Churchhoney]

10 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Boob is such a cheapskate, I'm surprised any of them got to go.

I would think they probably get at least a discount -- It is a form of affiliate marketing and PR, after all. Because nobody else's trips to Gothard camps and institutes and such get plastered all over the Web, social media and so on.

[CofCinci]

10 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Boob is such a cheapskate, I'm surprised any of them got to go.

Josiah's 4 rounds at Alert + no demonstrated interest in survival following Alert = shame camp. 

[JoanArc]

He just turned 20. He looks 30-35. This lifestyle is so stifling and aging. I feel bad for Si.

[sometimesy]

16 hours ago, Malvina said:

So which fella is waiting for his season of life (Counting on season) to court Jana or Joy? That's the pattern we are looking for right?

[Celia Rubenstein]

On 9/1/2016 at 5:24 PM, Absolom said:

It still doesn't follow the conversion camp formula so to me that makes a big difference in describing it.  True conversion camps are even worse.

Jim Bob can't send him to a real conversion camp. That would be admitting there is an issue. And Jim Bob specializes in denial.  Forcing the kid to spend eight months at ALERT is the probably the limit of what Jim Bob can deal with psychologically. 

[Brooklynista]

18 hours ago, Malvina said:

Does Gothard hate stripes? How about solids?

[BitterApple]

3 hours ago, JoanArc said:

He just turned 20. He looks 30-35. This lifestyle is so stifling and aging. I feel bad for Si.

I feel bad for him as well. Si was one of the few kids who showed glimpses of potential. I remember the trip to Stonehenge where Si was asking the guide questions while the rest of the family trampled the grass like buffoons. He also spoke quite eloquently at his graduation party. Sad to say, but being paired up with an ambitious girl like Marjorie probably could've helped him break free. Now he's reduced to being Boob's lackey. Depressing.

[LittlePeas3]

Serious question, what fruitcake pairs a tie with a large plaid shirt?  It looks worse than ridiculous!  

[DoctorWhovian]

Well they had to figure out a new uniform once they stopped wearing matching polos and denim skirts

[flyingdi]

23 hours ago, LittlePeas3 said:

Serious question, what fruitcake pairs a tie with a large plaid shirt?  It looks worse than ridiculous!  

Trace Bates and his ever present now tie but that's a story for another thread.

[CofCinci]

On 9/6/2016 at 4:26 AM, LittlePeas3 said:

Serious question, what fruitcake pairs a tie with a large plaid shirt?  It looks worse than ridiculous!  

They're dressed by their older sisters.  These women-children's only exposure to the real world is Pinterest.