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Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

Eyes High

By Eyes High
in Game Of Thrones

Meredith Quill
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Advisory: This topic is for S8 Spoilers & Spec. If your post predominantly concerns book comparisons or a character's past season actions it will be removed. 

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WindyNights

WindyNights

16 hours ago, ElizaD said:

If this is GRRM's version of bittersweet, what would he call bitter? Dany dead, Jon back to the NW in misery, all done at the speed of light for the sake of shock value. And democracy/council out of nowhere? Not one of the surviving characters has questioned the system in any way, beyond noblewomen like Arya wanting to fight like the noblemen and Tyrion being outraged that dwarfism denied him the privileges he was due by birth. The books don't even have Dany's wheel speech, yet GRRM said the show ending would be based on his - is he actually going to kill off his favorite house? What a mess.

The one single positive thing I've found in the leaks so far is the wildlings getting to settle in devastated Northern lands. Everything else is tragedy and misery.

House Targaryen isn't his favorite house. House Stark is. He's said this before. No one wanted to believe him. 

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Meredith Quill
Meredith Quill

Enjoy: I laughed. 🤣

spaceghostess
spaceghostess

^This.^ Thank you.  Months ago I posted that both Dany and Jon were at the top of my death list, but it never occurred to me that (a) she'd die crazy or (b) he'd kill her because she was crazy. Y

dragonsbite
dragonsbite

oh thank god. y'all have stopped arguing about Sansa.

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WindyNights

WindyNights

13 hours ago, anamika said:

Jon is the worst thing that ever happened to Daenerys. She lost everything because of him and then she’s going to get killed by him as well.

"I see flowering hasn't made you any brighter," said Cersei. "Sansa, permit me to share a bit of womanly wisdom with you on this very special day. Love is poison. A sweet poison, yes, but it will kill you all the same."

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bijoux

bijoux

1 hour ago, anamika said:

https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/books/1123230/Game-of-Thrones-George-RR-Martin-HBO-ending-books-change-differences-Iron-Throne-die

Since @Bannon kept wondering how Euron's fleet got there undetected, this is for you 🙂

image.thumb.png.25e58f98792051cc62ea6c43c8cd19db.png

That flight on Drogon really lasted a good long while then because the Iron Fleet was brought up in the war room meeting at Winterfell.

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WindyNights

WindyNights

11 hours ago, Couver said:

I guess I'll just cling to the spoiler of Drogon taking his mom away from all this at the end as my bittersweet. And Ghost making it out of this mess as well.

The ruling council seems like straight up garbage though. The head of it has no empathy or human sentiment. Tyrion has suspect character....and I don't even know what to say about Bronn's inclusion? Davos is the only decent person on it and the only person who actually has been shown caring about the lives of the common people.

And not.a.single.woman on it? Not even Sansa who would be well suited to it. Or Yara? Brienne?

And it's weird that every major house is gone except the Baratheons with Gendry legitimized right at the end. I would think all the houses would be gone.

Disappointing. I'm not going to rage about it though. Some will like it some will hate it. This show was GOOD when it was good...and BAD when it was bad for me at least.

I'll be skipping the last three eps. Seeing Dany's hearbroken face when Viserion died was enough. I don't need to see a repeat with Rhaegal. It's not shocking or new at this point. And they really dropped the ball in building up Jon's Targ ancestry or any type of relationship with the dragon.

That's not actually true. Bran had empathy for Theon and the Night King. 

Bran gives Theon what he wants in his final moments and he Isaac says that the staredown between Bran and the Night King is Bran feeling sorry for him.

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GrailKing

GrailKing

8 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

That's not actually true. Bran had empathy for Theon and the Night King. 

Bran gives Theon what he wants in his final moments and he Isaac says that the staredown between Bran and the Night King is Bran feeling sorry for him.

And Sansa made him a Stark at the funeral, with her Stark pin.

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WindyNights

WindyNights

9 hours ago, GraceK said:

Well, Jon sucks as a boyfriend. That’s proven for sure now. Dany went north and got Starked ( as in, became too honorable and now is fucked) and will  die for it. The best person to end up on the throne ignored her instincts, fought fair, helped save the world and in return lost her friends, Two dragons, armies , boyfriend and support and will get stabbed. 

She speaks different languages, had a multi cultural council, was willing to listen to advisors, didn’t judge based in bloodline, accepted Eunuchs, dwarves, women and former criminals in her circle, and was willing to grant independence in exchange for support . She freed slaves and wanted to stop raping and pillaging, and she was strong enough to actual make reform possible and ruthless enough to fight off enemies and make this change happen. But she didn’t get the chance....why? Cause her fathers reputation made her advisors shackle her instincts, her good heart and love for Jon snow obliterated her armies, her trust in Tyrion lost her allies, and her desire to spare innocent lives and try to negotiate with a terrorist got an innocent Missandei killed. The true tragedy is that the Best ruler of Westeros will never get a chance to rule because everyone around her she trusted made it impossible, and now when she finally has lost everything and tries to take out the evil queen with her most powerful weapon left, she will be declared unfit and put down like a dog. It’s a fucking tragedy .

The Queen Who Never Was. The Last Dragon. Another Rhaegar.

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WindyNights

WindyNights

7 hours ago, GraceK said:

Someone else wrote the following but I pretty much sums up my feelings.

So like, the moral of GoT isn’t even like complex or a subversion of the “good guys win” shtick. It’s literally don’t “do the ‘right’ thing” and don’t try and be a good person. Olenna told Dany this. Ned Stark did the honorable thing and was murdered anyway. Robb married for love and was honest about it despite political rammifications and got himself, his wife, and his mother killed for it. Margaery was a good queen who cared for the common people (even if it was partially for her public image), and Cersei murdered her. Jon defied tradition and deeply-ingrained prejudice to save the wildlings and was murdered by the Night’s Watch. Dany freed slaves and fought for the innocent for years. When she finally arrived in Westeros she followed the advice of others and didn’t attack KL, neglecting to kill civilians during the war. She journeyed North at extraordinary personal cost. It will all be for nothing, her allies are rapidly being killed off, and when she seeks to avenge them the one person left who she trusts will murder her for it. The moral of the story is literally that all effort is futile and hope is pointless and good people die for nothing as an indifferent world spins on and on. 

The NK had the right idea about destroying humanity.

That's not the lesson. The lesson is doing the right thing won't get you rewarded but you should do the right thing anyway but that is there is a right thing to do. 

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lucindabelle

lucindabelle

1 hour ago, GrailKing said:

How is she doing that ?

By giving a better option to Tyrion, in Jon, Jon's family she isn't and Arya point blank told him so in the Godswood.

Sansa didn't kill Missandei, Sansa didn't kill Rhegal, Sansa didn't let Euron and Dani know of Cerseis pregnancy, all Sansa did was ask Tyrion why Dani and posed a what if there's a better option and what if it's Jon.

As the scene ends Dani is bloody raged, none of it is on Sansa, it's on Cersei and her minions, and Dani will explode, not to be a villain, but she may be perceived that way. 

I’m not saying she is. It’s something I’ve heard in a leak. I hope it’s not true. 

Nightingale

Nightingale

12 minutes ago, GraceK said:

http://time.com/5583559/game-of-thrones-daenerys-going-mad/?utm_campaign=time&xid=time_socialflow_twitter&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=socialflowtw

What did I say weeks ago? The two crazy hormonal power-hungry ladies having to be put down by their heroic male lovers is NOT gonna go well with a part of the audience at all. And the criticisms of the misogyny and racism of this episode are making the rounds on social media already.

Good.

I am not so secretly enjoying the backlash. If I'm gonna hate this season, I'm glad everyone else is as well. 

I'm actually surprised Jon doesn't become king. If we didn't have any leaks, I'd guess this new weak and passive Jon would be carried  by force on the throne, unconscious, would open his eyes, realize where he is sitting and he'd be like oh well, that's it then, FML

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BooBear

BooBear

After seeing last nights episode I am pretty sure of a few things.

1. Tyrion is betraying Dany. Everything he did last night seemed to undermine her including telling Veryas and setting up that meeting to demand Cerise's surrender. What better way for Cersie to kill Missandei right in front of her.  When everyone knows that was a waste of time from Dany's point of view. Of course Tyrion walked over to Cersie and made some big stand.. he knew Cersie wouldn't hurt him. 

2. Clearly someone tipped off Euron that Dani was coming back to Dragonstone. Tyrion.  And interesting of all the people they could take, Cersie took Missandei, like she knew that was the person Dany valued most. 

3. Everything Cersie did last night was calculated to infuriate Dani and make her attack. But why would Cersie do that?  Everyone around her knows that is dangerous and Cersie knows better than anyone what happened with Ned Stark. Unless that is, she wants Dany to attack. 

4. Jon snow did his final goodbyes last night.  It seemed very final.  Interesting as well that someone got Jon not to travel by dragon. Because they knew they would take the dragon out. 

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Eyes High

Eyes High

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4 hours ago, anamika said:

The writing on this show, damn.

Book one Sansa: Tattles all of Ned's plans to Cersei Lannister because she wants to be queen. Ned loses his head, Jeyne gets sold off to LF and she gets trapped in KL.

Season 8 Sansa: Tattles Jon's secret to Tyrion Lannister because she would rather Cersei be queen than Dany.

The fact that Sansa hates Dany - the women who Jon loves dearly and who saved the North with her armies and dragons - more than the frigging Lannisters is just something.

I am guessing Sansa and Tyrion are going to plot together now?  I am still not seeing Friki's leaks about 'Tyrion betraying the Starks' in anything that's happened 4 episodes in.

It seems pretty clear after 8x04 that there will be no betrayal and no trial. If Tyrion’s going to betray anyone, it will be Dany to Jon, and it seems likely that he’ll back Jon’s claim when the dust settles in 8x06, since he’s already leaning in that direction. Tyrion knows Sansa would grab whatever power for herself that she could (as he made a knowing comment in 8x04 that Sansa would get the Vale to back her) so I doubt he would trust her in a scheme to seize power, even assuming he would be tempted or that he would believe Sansa if she tried to feed him a line about ruling together.

Also, the writers have been going out of their way to show in the last two episodes that Sansa and Tyrion can read each other pretty well: they had two silent conversations in 8x03, and in 8x04 they also managed to read each other (Tyrion could tell that something was wrong with Sansa, and Sansa could tell that Tyrion was afraid of Dany). Not exactly an environment ripe for betrayal.

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anamika

anamika

16 minutes ago, BadAssRobinArryn said:

So what do you think will happen? Will Dany be killed next episode and if yes (assuming the revival spoiler is fake) and what will happen in episode 6?

4 episodes in and still no main characters have been killed. If Dany gets killed, that's going to happen in episode 6. I really doubt Emilia is going to invite a Dany fan to watch the last episode with no Dany in it. That would be really unfair to the fan.

It could be that Jaime and Cersei die next episode.

Next episode is going to be so jam packed with stuff. I wonder what's going to happen in WF. Is Sansa going to sit out the episode or maybe she pays a visit to the Vale/Riverlands. We know that SweetRobin and Edmure turn up for the final dragonpit meeting - maybe she gets them there to support Bran as King.

No idea what Brienne is going to do, now that Jaime's ditched her. Maybe accompany Sansa.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

(edited)

I really don't see any Tyrion betrayal of Dany on behalf of Cersei. If they did that it would be M Knight Shamalon levels of "what a twist!"

I think they laid it out pretty clearly although, I do think they rushed the shit out of it. First hint was at the feast. Dany was playing politics with Gendy's title. Then you see Dany's fear start to develop. She's alone at that table, she sees Tyrion with Jamie and Brienne (sworn to Sansa), she sees/hears Tormond praising Jon and her greatest fear starts to develop. Jon is male, Jon has a greater claim to the Throne, Jon inspires loyalty and, has it from the Free Folk and the Northman.

When Dany goes to Jon's chamber it's part manipulation (to hold her crown) and, part a need to have Jon back in her emotional support system. She's lost Jorah, lost faith in Tyrion and, as much as she loves Missandai she's not on the same level that Jorah and Jon were to Dany.

Later we have the fight in the war-room which was a dumb move on Dany's part. Rushing head long to KL. Her army was depleted, she lost half the Northman and half the unsullied. Taking the time to recoop and come up with a strategy,  including a better idea of what they could expect from Dorne and Yara would have been a better move but Dany was afraid. Every moment's delay provided and opportunity for Jon to usurp her throne. He wouldn't do it but, it's her greatest fear to lose power to a male relative (like being under Viserys control again).

So they rush out, ready to confront Cersei and take a huge loss, they lose a Dragon, their fleet and, Missandai is captured. Once again Varys and Tyrion urge her to slow down, wait for Jon and, the rest of the army to arrive. She's angry but, she listens. Missandai's death was the final straw, Dany doesn't care and, has lost all patience. She's going after Cersei and innocent lives be damned. Now, I'm 100% for Dany killing Cersei. It's the collateral damage and lack of caring on Dany's part (burning children as Tyrion put it) that will be n issues for Varys, Tyrion, Jon and presumably the audience.

Varys has already turned on Dany as he said he would back at Dragonstone (last season?) if he felt she no longer put the interest of the people ahead of her ambitions. Tyrion will turn on her the minute she goes on a rampage. We've already seen that Tyrion loves Dany, believes in her but, is afraid of her worst impulses.  

The 3 Varys conversations (2 with Tyrion, 1 with Dany) are super important to this plot. Each one is basically the writers telling us what's going to happen. As much as I loved those scenes because they were very well acted the writing was pretty heavy handed IMO.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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anamika

anamika

So did D&D let us know why this episode is called 'The last Starks'? Is the implication here that this house is basically done for after this generation with Jon letting the other three know that he is Targaryen? Arya seems to have said her goodbyes and left, Bran is now the 3ER and Sansa dislikes everyone and wants to rule solo.

On the Targaryen front, looks like Tyrion is the Lannister who survives and continues on Tywin's line. Gendry looks to be continuing house Baratheon over at Storm's end.

If Jon kills Dany and then fucks off into the Wilderness with Ghost and Tormund, then house Targaryen is also over.

So looks like Starks and Targaryens are finished with this generation.

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YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

7 hours ago, ursula said:

This makes a lot more sense than what we're presented. Unfortunately, it's against the show's canon as it retconned Sansa betraying Ned to Cersei. (Although that would have been more reason for the angst/feud between her and Arya in season 7 than a coerced letter she had already sent to the North and wasn't even technically a secret - but naturally, they whitewashed Sansa's complicity in Ned's death).

Did they retcon that? I honestly can't keep track of things. But hey, only men can fall in love and do stupid things. Sansa is immune to that.

5 hours ago, anamika said:

Sansa's basically planted the seed in Tyrion's mind about Jon being the rightful heir and then let them all go off to fight - including Northern soldiers and Jon. Knowing this is going to bring about conflict and chaos - just when they all needed to be united against Cersei.

As D&D say in the behind the scenes , she's like LF at this point - Chaos is a ladder.

She is a poor man's LF. And if they hadn't dumbed Tyrion and Varys down so much, then they would have been on to her. But she must be the smartest person in the room.

4 hours ago, Raachel2008 said:

What a fucking idiot! Dany kind of forgot? Dany and Tyrion and Varys and Jon and Misandei and Greyworm and literally everyone who knew about the fleet?

For fuck’s sake. This is just pure incompentence. They spend millions so people can come up with different dresses and hair styles to show the changes in Sansa’s, Dany’s and Cersei’s lives but they cannot come up with a military advisor to help them find a way to make this crap remotely plausible? Fuck them. Fuck them all.

Everyone's IQ drops down to single digits to advance the dumb plots. And once again, Cersei is sitting pretty because she is the smawtest pewson evew.

The show is really gross. The characters are gross. Pretty much all of them have been tainted by D&D's poison pen.

Dany should've stayed in Essos.

Sansa should have died.

And Rhaegar should have pulled out. This version of Jon Snow shouldn't have been born. Ever.

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bijoux

bijoux

3 hours ago, BooBear said:

After seeing last nights episode I am pretty sure of a few things.

1. Tyrion is betraying Dany. Everything he did last night seemed to undermine her including telling Veryas and setting up that meeting to demand Cerise's surrender. What better way for Cersie to kill Missandei right in front of her.  When everyone knows that was a waste of time from Dany's point of view. Of course Tyrion walked over to Cersie and made some big stand.. he knew Cersie wouldn't hurt him.

Was it all those times Cersei conspired to have him killed, last of which was featured in just this episode, that made him so sure of himself and her?

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anamika

anamika

1 hour ago, YaddaYadda said:

This version of Jon Snow shouldn't have been born. Ever. 

This version of Jon Snow should have stayed dead after season 5. Considering the show runners basically destroyed his season 5 leadership arc in season 6 to prop up Sansa, and then stopped writing for him other than to have Kit Harington swing a sword. His NW/Crow/Wildling story at the wall continues to be the best.

Jon dies end of season 5 finishing up that arc and saving thousands of wildlings. Sansa escapes Boltons, rallies the North , gets the Vale army there via LF, defeats the Boltons and becomes queen in the North. Arya hears that her sister has taken back WF and goes home. Bran gets there. There is some Arya/Sansa/LF drama as they work together to take him down.

The NK/WW get through the wall somehow and the Starks defend their home, with ninja Arya taking out the NK and defeating WF from this threat.

Meanwhile down south, Dany invades Westeros with her dragons, and tries to defeat Cersei. Tyrion's sympathies for his sister remains and it's Targaryen Vs Lannister. Ultimately Dany and Cersei destroy each other and Tyrion survives.  And that's it.

Jon should have died with his ADwD book story and it would have actually been a bold move if D&D had stuck with it. Ultimately R+L=J, Ice and fire, PTWP - all of that meant nothing and Jon's parentage is all about Dany, Sansa's hate for her and the fucking Tarlys.

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YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

3 minutes ago, anamika said:

Jon should have died with his ADwD book story and it would have actually been a bold move if D&D had stuck with it. Ultimately R+L=J, Ice and fire, PTWP - all of that meant nothing and Jon's parentage is all about Dany, Sansa's hate for her and the fucking Tarlys.

No kidding. The best thing that could have happened to Jon on the show was to stay dead.

And the non personality transplant and low IQ came with that man bun he's been wearing ever since he was resurrected. 

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Hana Chan

Hana Chan

1 hour ago, YaddaYadda said:

She is a poor man's LF. And if they hadn't dumbed Tyrion and Varys down so much, then they would have been on to her. But she must be the smartest person in the room.

I don't agree. This was the first time when I could actually buy the SmartPoliticalSansa that they'd been trying to feed us for so long. Sansa had always been suspicious of Dany, and Dany's disregard for the well-being of the northern forces (not to mention her own people) in order to rush into another battle before they are ready doesn't help. For all that Dany claims to be the "breaker of chains" and some sort of liberator, she has been so single minded that the well being of those who are sworn to her often isn't a consideration. Not wanting to give her own men a chance to rest and heal before throwing them into another war against fresh troops is not what a benevolent (not to mention intelligent) leader would do if they had any choice in the matter.

Sansa knows that the revelation about Jon's heritage potentially shifts the balance of power in a huge way. And given that Dany's own advisers have been growing increasingly concerned with her recklessness and the evidence that she is willing to become the kind of ruler that she always decried in order to get what she wants,  presenting another option for them to rally behind was a very cunning move on her part. 

The fact that Jon has always put the well-being of his people first, and not his own power, will be the primary reason why if given a choice between him, Dany or Cersei ruling, he may get the upper hand.

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Stallion12

Stallion12

4 hours ago, BooBear said:

After seeing last nights episode I am pretty sure of a few things.

1. Tyrion is betraying Dany. Everything he did last night seemed to undermine her including telling Veryas and setting up that meeting to demand Cerise's surrender. What better way for Cersie to kill Missandei right in front of her.  When everyone knows that was a waste of time from Dany's point of view. Of course Tyrion walked over to Cersie and made some big stand.. he knew Cersie wouldn't hurt him. 

2. Clearly someone tipped off Euron that Dani was coming back to Dragonstone. Tyrion.  And interesting of all the people they could take, Cersie took Missandei, like she knew that was the person Dany valued most. 

3. Everything Cersie did last night was calculated to infuriate Dani and make her attack. But why would Cersie do that?  Everyone around her knows that is dangerous and Cersie knows better than anyone what happened with Ned Stark. Unless that is, she wants Dany to attack. 

4. Jon snow did his final goodbyes last night.  It seemed very final.  Interesting as well that someone got Jon not to travel by dragon. Because they knew they would take the dragon out. 

I hope your right.

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bijoux

bijoux

24 minutes ago, WaltersHair said:

I've had this strange feeling since last season that Cercei isn't pregnant, but has a tumor growing inside her. It would be both symbolic and a physical reason that's she going a little mad.

That's a good theory. I'd even use the witch's prophecy about her having three children to back it up had the show itself not contradicted  it with the black haired baby back in the first season. 

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Hana Chan

Hana Chan

Just now, Chaser said:

Pulling everyone into the Red Keep and deliberating baiting Dany. I think a part of Cersei knows she could lose and wants everything to burn with her. It would be one last get. Cersei dies, but no one looks at Dany as a hero. 

Bingo. Cersei will almost certainly lose, but she will make it impossible for Dany to rule afterwards. If Dany goes into KL with Drogon raining fire on everything that moves, she will be seen as mad an unstable as her father. Slaughtering the human shields that Cersei has set up will turn all of Westeros against her.

The problem is that Dany will very likely fall for this. She's losing all of the moderating influences that she actually trusted and at best sees Tyrion and Varys as questionable (Tyrion especially is too close to his family for her comfort). Now she sees the man that she claims to love as a threat as well. All this on top of clinging to the delusion of being the rightful ruler of Westeros (when she knows that Jon is the actual heir and ahead of her in succession), she's setting herself up for a crushing fall.

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Eyes High

Eyes High

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It's a controversial take, but I loved 8x04 and found the whole thing very tragically inevitable and Shakespearean in hindsight, as Kit put it, even as D&D took a chainsaw to several long-held popular fan assumptions (Jaime would be able to choose Brienne over Cersei, for one):

Of course Jaime would run back to Cersei when push came to shove, no matter how happy he was with Brienne.

Of course Jon couldn't deal with having a lover who was his near blood relation.

Of course Dany would become more and more ruthless as she lost her moderating influences like Jorah and felt isolated in the North. Her reaction shots in 8x04 at the celebrations to Jon's popularity with the Northmen and the wildlings reminded me of Viserys' jealousy of her popularity with the Dothraki.

Of course Sansa would try to get word out about Jon's parentage. 

Of course Arya would turn down Gendry's proposal.

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Couver

Couver

It can't be said enough. Dany should have listened to Olenna from the start. No point in deviating from her nature when she is the villain either way. If she'd taken a strong front as she landed on the continent she would likely still have all her children and her better advisors (Olenna, Yara, Elaria). Instead of the two faced men she's stuck with now who are clearly leading her to destruction. There is death in war. Ever king had a long list of casualties in their rise to the throne. Jamie's speech to Oleena last season was actually fairly accurate. If you rule justly and fairly the populace will forget what you did to get there.

I just want to know that Drogon lives. 😫

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Azgard12

Azgard12

(edited)
5 hours ago, nikma said:

Euron, Gregor, Qyburn and  Varys as well. And Harry Strickland if anyone cares about him. 

And in the last episode Daenerys. Anyone else left to die? 

Based on the leaks...

Episode 5:
Varys
Euron
Hound
Mountain
Qyburn

Episode 6:
Jaime (maybe ep 5)
Cersei (maybe ep 5)
Daenerys (maybe ep 5)
Drogon (speculative?)

Edited by Azgard12
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BadAssRobinArryn

BadAssRobinArryn

50 minutes ago, Stallion12 said:

At least if the leaks are true it won't be the nights watch but the freefolk.

The part about Jon rejoining the Night Watch Always was in one of the most suspicious leaks and I think it's fake. They jumped on the Jon kills Dany bandwagon and added a few of their own fleaks to it, like Jaime "betraying" the North. 

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Wouter

Wouter

16 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I have to say, if anything was faked by HBO?

That would have been the easiest to do.  They already have everyone gathered for the (to me, much more likely) scene of Tyrion giving a speech and nominating Bran, presumably a speech about the idiocy of wars, and thrones, and crowns as well.  Just give the actors another script to play that switches it to a trial, and leak that sucker. 

They are already there anyway.

Tyrion in the trial scene is supposed to look really ragged though, after months in a cell. There was talk about hair extensions being used.

Tyrion giving a speech as one of the victors would look very differently.

Of course, it's very possible that Friki got fed wrong info.

16 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Fair enough. My question remains; why would Jon resurrect Dany? If Jon wanted Dany alive, he would have imprisoned or flown off with her on Drogon. He chooses to kill her instead.

The explanation given in the (unlikely) (f)leak, as I understand it, is that Jon thinks Dany is responsible for mass murder on a grand scale, but he finds out afterwards that Cersei had deliberately used Wildfire to greatly enlarge the effect of a dragon attack, even a relatively precise one. After which he would regret being duped into killing his ally...

16 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Friki has no idea about anything this season beyond the 8x01 summary and his Tyrion trial leaks. His other predictions and spoilers, like the Unsullied going to Castle Black, turned out to be wrong. I think he’s digging in his heels on the Tyrion trial stuff even as it’s looking less and less likely because he has no choice at this point.

Tyrion and Cersei being in cahoots since S7 makes no sense. What was Tyrion’s big play, die with everyone at Winterfell? Sit down with an omniscient seer for an unsolicited conversation? It’s absurd.

Friki has certainly lost some credibility with his handling of the episode 1 spoilers, like failing to mention that little part about Cersei paying Bronn to kill Jaime and Tyrion. It does look unlikely that Cersei could also have been scheming with Tyrion (while planning to kill him anyway), and it would be bad writing.

I guess that one thing this (f)leak improves over earlier versions of the "Tyrion and Cersei are secretly conspiring against Dany" theory, is that it doesn't require Tyrion to sabotage the defense at Winterfell. The "plan", such as it is (as it seems suicidal from a Lannister POV), seems to assume that Dany will still have at least one dragon to attack KL, and the only aim seems to make Dany look mad/cruel at the expense of KL, its inhabitants and even its defenders.

However, it isn't clear why Cersei would even need Tyrion for such a plan, as Tyrion could potentially tell Dany about it. And I don't know what Tyrion would be supposed to do, or why Cersei would send Bronn to kill him if he is supposed to do some betraying...

  • Love 1
nikma

nikma

Good post from WOTW

Had there been no books to go by, ‘The Rains Of Castamere’ would have been universally panned. I’m convinced of it. The fact that this episode is so lowly rated is proof of it, IMO. This amount of hate isn’t because of fans feeling like the Euron ambush didn’t make sense and that they should have been aware of him. Or that Cersei should have just killed Dany outside of the gates. Those are reasonable criticisms. But logistical stuff doesn’t drive the majority of fans nuts.

The hate is because of the direction of Dany’s character and where it is headed. The book stans refuse to believe this is straight out of George’s mouth to D&D’s ears. It’s amazing.

And I’m not knocking legitimate criticisms. I’m just claiming that those wouldn’t drive thousands of people to rate it a 1 out of 10. This episode was far better than any episode in season 7, and IMO , the best this season. For it to be regarded as the worst in the show’s history is insane.

I’ll predict next week will probably be rated lower, because some truly crazy Red Wedding-esque shit is about to go down.

  • Love 11
Stallion12

Stallion12

22 minutes ago, BadAssRobinArryn said:

The part about Jon rejoining the Night Watch Always was in one of the most suspicious leaks and I think it's fake. They jumped on the Jon kills Dany bandwagon and added a few of their own fleaks to it, like Jaime "betraying" the North. 

I'm hoping more than that was fleaked.

  • Love 2
Meredith Quill
Message added by Meredith Quill

Advisory: This topic is for S8 Spoilers & Spec. If your post predominantly concerns book comparisons or a character's past season actions it will be removed. 

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