Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[Kanner]

15 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

We'll also see how Jon, who's had a laserlike focus on the AOTD at the expense of all else for a while, reacts to the end of the Great War. Will he acquire a new political consciousness and take a keen interest in worldly affairs and the fate of Westeros, or will he just curl up in a ball and ask everyone to just leave him alone already?

I am very curious about this.  He can no longer (rightly) say we don't have time for this because of the AOTD.  So after they burn the dead and mourn a little, what is next for Jon? I would be very sad for both Jon and Dany if the story goes the way of them turning on each other.  Plus as others have said, I just don't see the story having enough time to develop this in a well written way. I know that doesn't mean it wouldn't go there but I would be disappointed.

[Minneapple]

48 minutes ago, BadAssRobinArryn said:

We literally just saw Dany helping save the world. And now she should go completely crazy within three episodes (which have the length of four normal episodes)? That will be really hard to pull off. I don't even see the big tragedy in Jon killing her. For all that Jon/Dany shipping out there, they know each other for like 7 episodes now and in the final it will be a maximun of ten. It's like the biggest possible tragedy with the least possible build-up.

And also, I do not want to minimize the possible loses of Jorah, Rhaegal and Missandei for Dany. But it's not true that everything is taken away from her. She still would have Jon or Drogon or Grey Worm (and Tyrion or Varys, if they don't betray her). The Northerners seem to be on her side now as well. She's not that alone. Certainly less so than Sansa or Arya were after Ned's death or the Red Wedding.

She won't necessarily have Jon. The actors have indicated that Jon isn't so keen on the incest. So Jon, Jorah, Missandei, the Dothraki, her dragons. Possible betrayal by Varys or Tyrion. That's a lot to lose.

I'm telling you guys, this is like the time Buffy killed Angel and then ran away. 

28 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

We'll also see how Jon, who's had a laserlike focus on the AOTD at the expense of all else for a while, reacts to the end of the Great War. Will he acquire a new political consciousness and take a keen interest in worldly affairs and the fate of Westeros, or will he just curl up in a ball and ask everyone to just leave him alone already?

Yeah, this is a good one. I'm curious to see what Jon does now. He'll need a new goal. He had the goal of reclaiming Winterfell, then fighting the Army of the Dead. Now? He's having an identity crisis and doesn't really have any more goals. Will he be so keen about marching on Cersei or will he be all, "nah, let's just chill for awhile." In fact I'm also curious to see if everyone, not just Jon, is keen on marching on Cersei. Maybe they'll all be looking at Dany like "listen up lady, can't the throne wait five minutes? At least until the stitches come out of poor Arya's head?" 

[Eyes High]

28 minutes ago, Kanner said:

I am very curious about this.  He can no longer (rightly) say we don't have time for this because of the AOTD.  So after they burn the dead and mourn a little, what is next for Jon? 

Right. Apart from reclaiming Winterfell from Ramsay and defeating the AOTD, two goals he has now accomplished, what does Jon want? It's probably a question he hasn't asked himself in a long time. The last time he truly had a goal in mind for himself in S6, he just wanted to leave everyone and head off somewhere warm. Is that still the case?

Is he going to start having opinions about how Dany does things, especially if she starts making noises about using the dragons on KL (something he seemed to disapprove of in S7)? Is he going to have opinions about what should happen to Westeros and want to have a say in what happens in KL? Or is he just going to want to be with Dany and beg Sam to forget about his true parentage? 

14 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

I'm telling you guys, this is like the time Buffy killed Angel and then ran away. 

I remember being completely wrecked by Buffy killing Angel when it happened. That episode was GRRM-worthy levels of angst. Good times!

Quote

Yeah, this is a good one. I'm curious to see what Jon does now. He'll need a new goal. He had the goal of reclaiming Winterfell, then fighting the Army of the Dead. Now? He's having an identity crisis and doesn't really have any more goals. Will he be so keen about marching on Cersei or will he be all, "nah, let's just chill for awhile." In fact I'm also curious to see if everyone, not just Jon, is keen on marching on Cersei. Maybe they'll all be looking at Dany like "listen up lady, can't the throne wait five minutes? At least until the stitches come out of poor Arya's head?" 

Yes, yes, yes to all of this. 

Edited May 3, 2019 by Eyes High

[SimoneS]

1 hour ago, BadAssRobinArryn said:

And also, I do not want to minimize the possible loses of Jorah, Rhaegal and Missandei for Dany. But it's not true that everything is taken away from her. She still would have Jon or Drogon or Grey Worm (and Tyrion or Varys, if they don't betray her). The Northerners seem to be on her side now as well. She's not that alone. Certainly less so than Sansa or Arya were after Ned's death or the Red Wedding.

The same leaker says that Grey Worm blames Dany for Missandei being captured and killed so Dany will not be able to depend on him. I think that she will have Jon as a vassal if not a lover, but he might express doubts about her or not fully support her. I still don't buy Dany going mad, but if she doesn't have anyone in her inner circle who is loyal and whose advice she can trust, I could see her making decisions that make Jon, Tyrion, etc. consider her "an unworthy Queen."  

[YaddaYadda]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

I'm not sure which characters you mean. Is Sansa Benioff's favourite?

Cogman's faves are Sansa and Theon, and it shows, but I don't know about the others.

I'm thinking about Tywin with boobies. Last season, Cersei came on top, even when she was seemingly losing and this season, she's still on top.

She eliminated the Tyrells, got their gold, made friends with the Iron Bank, got herself an army of mercenaries. Everything she has done or said has made her look like a genius. Even Tywin wasn't half as smart as she was, and Tyrion looks like a damn idiot.

Everything since the end of season 6 has been designed so that Cersei can come on top. She has an army of mercenaries, a fleet if she needs one, her brothers are waffling because she's pregnant. She has foresight even Bran doesn't seem to have, she is now a diplomat and a war leader.

Sansa is just a dumbass. Apparently writing her as being passive-aggressive is her being politically savvy. And I really don't care about reading 50 posts about how awesome she is and how wrong I am. 

The only female character that has not been tainted is Yara, but that's because the writers have left her alone for the most part.

Honestly, I find the rumors about Jon and Dany super disturbing. 

Edited May 3, 2019 by YaddaYadda

[SimoneS]

Another thing about those leaks which were posted months ago, Jon stabbing Dany in the heart ties in with the lyrics of the GoT song, "Power is Power" which would have been recorded months before its recent release The lyrics expressly state that only love could kill "Dany" and a knife in her heart, but it does suggest that she is resurrected. There is nothing about that in the leaks, only Drogon taking her body away. I really hope this is all random and wild coincidence. 

Edited May 3, 2019 by SimoneS

[aprilbabe]

24 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Another thing about those leaks which were posted months ago, Jon stabbing Dany in the heart ties in with the lyrics of the GoT song, "Power is Power." The lyrics expressly state that only love could kill "Dany" and a knife in her heart, but it does suggest that she is resurrected. There is nothing about that in the leaks, only Drogon taking her body away. I really hope this is all random and wild coincidence. 

I am so perplexed by there drogon flys  off with Dany part. Flies where? Is he never seen again. Drogon is pretty much a huge character, him just flying off is not a good conclusion for him. But if there’s more to it, how come the animator doesn’t know what happens after they fly off.

But the animators are probably getting scenes in the order it’s filimed and not necessarily the order it plays out. So maybe they saw it but didn’t necessarily realize it.

[GraceK]

Drogon ain’t flying off nowhere without wrecking shit first 😂. These leaks are bullshit. I’ll eat my humble pie later if they come true but until then I’m not worried. This happens every year, this is another version of Dany dies horribly. 🙄 

I’m gonna be an optimist.🤗

Edited May 3, 2019 by GraceK

[cambridgeguy]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

Right. Apart from reclaiming Winterfell from Ramsay and defeating the AOTD, two goals he has now accomplished, what does Jon want? It's probably a question he hasn't asked himself in a long time. The last time he truly had a goal in mind for himself in S6, he just wanted to leave everyone and head off somewhere warm. Is that still the case? 

It doesn't really matter, does it? He's still Warden of the North.  He pledged himself and the North to Dany's cause and she wants to march south.  He's the guy who spouted off about keeping your word at the end of S7 so he's obligated to follow regardless of his personal feelings.  Even without that he's probably feels obligated to look out Sansa, Arya, and Bran.  All of that trumps his desire to retire to a beach or whatever else it is that we would like to do. 

[Chiny11]

58 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

The same leaker says that Grey Worm blames Dany for Missandei being captured and killed so Dany will not be able to depend on him. I think that she will have Jon as a vassal if not a lover, but he might express doubts about her or not fully support her. I still don't buy Dany going mad, but if she doesn't have anyone in her inner circle who is loyal and whose advice she can trust, I could see her making decisions that make Jon, Tyrion, etc. consider her "an unworthy Queen."  

Wait a minute... Wait a minute... Greyworm does what now?  Wow!!! 

The more I read these spiolers the more I think I'm so going to regret investing in a show written by D&D. All these years and this is how it ends. 😐😐

Why am I even surprised? These are the same guys that proposed that Confederacy show. 🙄🙄   HBO canned that thing so fast after the backlash.  

[WindyNights]

5 hours ago, Pestilentia said:

I think that at this point Bran is a meat hard drive and not much more. He may have a tiny spark of Stark left flickering but it is dwindling and will eventually go out. His time spent in the cave was analogous to a system upgrade where the new hard drive (Bran) was being formatted and the system switch taking place as the old hardware (Bloodraven) was retired. That's completed now and his job is to record.  He is a repository. He is no longer an individual- he is a piece of hardware. He has no real agency aside from the odd cryptic comment to direct people in the direction they are destined to go anyway. And IMO this direction is 99.9% exposition anyway- to help us as viewers understand the pre-existing roles everyone is meant to play.

Humanity means humanity as a whole, not this human and that human cherry picked by some metric as insignificant as family DNA. He is not here to influence events, he is here to record the events of the species as a whole. If that requires watching the deaths of the people in the family from which he came then so be it. 

Just because we don't know the reason doesn't mean there isn't one.

He was recording. His warging is used only to enhance his view or his mobility to get to a better vantage point.

He is not warging to go and do stuff, only to go and see stuff happen.   

I think expecting "Bran" (who no longer exists) to function in any sort of human capacity is missing the point of what the 3ER really is. He is not Bran any more. He is not going to be sitting on a council or being an advisor or doing anything to influence or change human events. His "bigger picture" is not Kingdoms or councils or family names- his big picture is seeing the events that comprise the Age of Man.

Isaac has refuted that Bran doesn't exist anymore: 

Isaac: There's a sense of … I wouldn't necessarily say "joy," but there's still a part of Bran in the Three-Eyed Raven. He remembers what it was like to be Bran. Usually, his mind is occupied with so many other things. But when he's there in Winterfell, surrounded by so much of his family and so many people he hasn't seen in such a long time, it certainly flares up the parts of his brain that are Bran. I think there's a flicker of him thinking, "Good to see you again. It's been interesting to see your journey." But I think it's all in the context of how interesting it's been to see how someone's life has panned out, the journey you've been on, the things you've seen, why you're here today and where you must go from here. It's not like Bran's going to sit down and shoot the shit for an hour with Jon. It's more like: "Nice to see you again. You've had an interesting journey — and you have an interesting journey still to come."

[Constantinople]

1 hour ago, Minneapple said:

I'm also curious to see if everyone, not just Jon, is keen on marching on Cersei. Maybe they'll all be looking at Dany like "listen up lady, can't the throne wait five minutes? At least until the stitches come out of poor Arya's head?" 

Quote

[W]e'll never be safe until the Lannisters are defeated

   - Robb to Talisa in The Prince of Winterfell (S2 E8)

I believe Sansa feels the same way, though I'm not sure about Jon

[screamin]

Damn, the whole Dany becoming pregnant thing might've been a red herring, but I still think that it's possible that she IS pregnant and that if she is Jon won't kill her no matter what she might do. He might kill her last dragon, though, to keep her from the means of becoming an invincible tyrant. He might then even offer himself up to her to kill in retaliation, in the hopes that his sacrifice will bring her to her senses and make her realize what she's becoming. 

I still think it's possible that Dany's end is foreshadowed in her repeated yearning for a house with a red door like she loved in her happy childhood, when she was safe, cared for, serene and unimportant - with no power and no desire for it. Whether she takes down Jon in horror over his killing of her dragon or whether they end up together (I really think that if she's pregnant Jon WILL marry her despite his unease with the incest, to keep his child from being born a bastard), I would really like to think of Dany as going off with her last followers to find a safe refuge to bring up her child in a red house like in her own childhood, without the demands and dangers of power on her or the child.

[SimoneS]

18 minutes ago, Chiny11 said:

Why am I even surprised? These are the same guys that proposed that Confederacy show. 🙄🙄   HBO canned that thing so fast after the backlash.  

Apparently, HBO claims the confederate show is still in the works. Maybe they are saving face, but it hasn't been officially been canned. 

Edited May 3, 2019 by SimoneS

[aprilbabe]

Speaking of pregnancy. What is the point of Cersei’s. Like it’s literally a non factor. Thought they were gonna do a dany learn she’s  pregnant and Cersei losses hers. But I’m really doubting Dany is pregnant. We haven’t see cersei  mention it. The outlines for season 7 have her losing it. So I assume she loses it this season but what purpose does that serve. To make her go even crazier. So we have two crazy queens?

Emilia mentioned power quite a bit in her interviews and the cost of it. Wanna go back and read those in light of the new “leaks”

[Riplet68]

Can’t the burned parts of KLjust be the tops where soldiers were?  There is no problem using the dragons for that,  it’s only if the dragons burn non military areas that would be bad.

in getting the feeling I’m gonna he pissed with the ending.  They have just not done a good job of setting up the potential spoilers that are here (Dany crazy, Tyrion betrayal). It wouldn’t ring true.  At least Lost and sopranos, even Seinfeld stayed true to their seasons of set up. 

[anamika]

I am not sure what the confusion is about Jon. He pledged to help Dany win the Iron Throne and defeat Cersei if they survive the Great War. Dany has kept her end of the bargain and given it her all, losing large swathes of her armies in the process. Now it's Jon and the North's turn to stick to their end of the deal. And the Jon we know will keep to it. He will be busy helping in planning that war.

I think now that the Northerners have seen Dany fight for them, they too will join in and help her. Otherwise the Northerners would be as trustworthy as Walder Frey.

Besides Winter is over and Spring is here. How long do people want Jon/Dany to chill in the North while Cersei amasses an army down south? The sooner the better.

People thinking that Jon is going to have an identity crisis on the show now that the AOTD is defeated....lol! Jon was basically told that his whole life was a lie and that he was not a bastard but a Targaryen prince - and he was like ok, next! There's no time for all that and the showrunners are not interested in exploring all this for the character.

I am curious as to how Jon and Dany are going to carry on next episode. There was a TV blurb about their relationship heats up and Kit made it seem like all is well, but I think they would have to sit down and have a chat about what his lineage means for both of them.

FF thinks that Dany is getting a marriage proposal from Dorne - this could be when the politics of the Jon/Dany situation is discussed.

I wonder if Sansa figured out Jon is a Targaryen. She had a strange look on her face watching Jon ride Rhaegal during the battle.

[Couver]

I am really trying not to run wild with the spoiler speculation. But I have to echo what most are saying. It would be a horrendous ending if they go this route of Jon killing a mad Dany.

The build up would be so rushed and OOC. I would hate it either way but would have less of an issue if they set this up even at the tail end of season 7.

And while I know this show never set out for happy endings. I do believe audiences deserve some sort of closure when their shows end. Trotting out a tired trope of a crazy woman who is put down by a man (to further his story). Is so lazy and cliche. I'd be ok with Dany dying if it was done in a more organic way.

And why have us invest in Dany for what 7 years for it to end like this? Or in Jon for that matter. Who they have slowly built up toward a possible king. But apparently he just up and leaves after killing Dany? Just major ball dropping for both characters IMO.

Again I may be getting worked up over nothing. But I am probably going to just spoil myself first with the remaining three episodes because there is no way I will actually watch them if most of this plays out as it is being speculated.

And to top it all off it doesn't seem like Cersei even really gets hers. I made peace long ago that she'd never get the offing the character deserves but a fairly mild death just isn't right. And letting her kill a few more good characters before she goes is just gross. Love Lean Heady but Cersei as a character became useless a season and a half ago.

[Oscirus]

7 minutes ago, anamika said:

FF thinks that Dany is getting a marriage proposal from Dorne - this could be when the politics of the Jon/Dany situation is discussed.

That would mean establishing a brand new character this late in the game. Im doubting they go that route.

[MrsR]

 

 

 

 

3

28 minutes ago, aprilbabe said:

Speaking of pregnancy. What is the point of Cersei’s. Like it’s literally a non factor. 

Could be a tumor.

[SimoneS]

7 minutes ago, Couver said:

And to top it all off it doesn't seem like Cersei even really gets hers. I made peace long ago that she'd never get the offing the character deserves but a fairly mild death just isn't right. And letting her kill a few more good characters before she goes is just gross. Love Lean Heady but Cersei as a character became useless a season and a half ago.

I also noticed how easy Cersei gets off after all the evil that she has done in the leak. Jaime doesn't kill her. He is with her as they die together. The Red Keep collapsing on her and Jaime isn't particularly satisfying.

[SimoneS]

21 minutes ago, anamika said:

I am not sure what the confusion is about Jon. He pledged to help Dany win the Iron Throne and defeat Cersei if they survive the Great War. Dany has kept her end of the bargain and given it her all, losing large swathes of her armies in the process. Now it's Jon and the North's turn to stick to their end of the deal. And the Jon we know will keep to it. He will be busy helping in planning that war.

I think now that the Northerners have seen Dany fight for them, they too will join in and help her. Otherwise the Northerners would be as trustworthy as Walder Frey.

I expect the same. Dany kept her word, time for Jon and the North to keep its word. Besides, it isn't like Cersei is just going to leave the North alone. Better to go south and sack KL, than wait for her head north and destroy what remains of the North.

Edited May 3, 2019 by SimoneS

[Spartan Girl]

22 minutes ago, Riplet68 said:

Can’t the burned parts of KLjust be the tops where soldiers were?  There is no problem using the dragons for that,  it’s only if the dragons burn non military areas that would be bad.

I'm getting the feeling I’m gonna he pssed with the ending.  They have just not done a good job of setting up the potential spoilers that are here (Dany crazy, Tyrion betrayal). It wouldn’t ring true.  At least Lost and sopranos, even Senfeld stayed true to their season of set up. 

54 minutes ago, Chiny11 said:

ow!!! 

The more I read these spiolers the more I think I'm so going to regret investing in a show written by D&D. All these years and this is how it ends. 😐 😐

If GOT joins the many shows I regretted getting hooked on (OUAT, WD, Glee), I'll be pissed. I will be the first to do a "dishonor on you and your cow" meme to GRRM and D and D.

[Callista]

1 hour ago, GraceK said:

Drogon ain’t flying off nowhere without wrecking shit first 😂. These leaks are bullshit. I’ll eat my humble pie later if they come true but until then I’m not worried. This happens every year, this is another version of Dany dies horribly. 🙄 

I’m gonna be an optimist.🤗

I don't believe them either. To be honest, I'm more afraid for Arya at the moment. Things have been going so well for her lately--reunion with Jon, romance with Gendry, killing the NK--that it seems like she's due for a major setback or tragedy soon.

[Oscirus]

14 minutes ago, Callista said:

I don't believe them either. To be honest, I'm more afraid for Arya at the moment. Things have been going so well for her lately--reunion with Jon, romance with Gendry, killing the NK--that it seems like she's due for a major setback or tragedy soon.

She still has those green eyes to close. She's safe until she meets Cersei I believe

[Chiny11]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

Apparently, HBO claims the confederate show is still in the works. Maybe they are saving face, but it hasn't been officially been canned. 

Let's hope they are lying to save face.  Besides D&D have their Star Wars trilogy to focus on. 

[WindyNights]

1 hour ago, Couver said:

I am really trying not to run wild with the spoiler speculation. But I have to echo what most are saying. It would be a horrendous ending if they go this route of Jon killing a mad Dany.

The build up would be so rushed and OOC. I would hate it either way but would have less of an issue if they set this up even at the tail end of season 7.

And while I know this show never set out for happy endings. I do believe audiences deserve some sort of closure when their shows end. Trotting out a tired trope of a crazy woman who is put down by a man (to further his story). Is so lazy and cliche. I'd be ok with Dany dying if it was done in a more organic way.

And why have us invest in Dany for what 7 years for it to end like this? Or in Jon for that matter. Who they have slowly built up toward a possible king. But apparently he just up and leaves after killing Dany? Just major ball dropping for both characters IMO.

Again I may be getting worked up over nothing. But I am probably going to just spoil myself first with the remaining three episodes because there is no way I will actually watch them if most of this plays out as it is being speculated.

And to top it all off it doesn't seem like Cersei even really gets hers. I made peace long ago that she'd never get the offing the character deserves but a fairly mild death just isn't right. And letting her kill a few more good characters before she goes is just gross. Love Lean Heady but Cersei as a character became useless a season and a half ago.

They've echoed it last season a lot. If Daenerys attacks King's Landing with dragons then she's not different. She's more of the same. We know KL is being burned by dragonfire and the Red Keep goes kaboom so it's either Daenerys doing, Jon doing it or Bran warging a dragon to do it. 

Jon's not going to do it so it's either Dany or Bran burning down King's Landing so pray it's Bran or it'll be the final statement on Dany's worthiness to be queen within the context of the show.

[chrisvee]

The only realistic way I can see Jon killing Dani is if it’s a mercy killing — she’s poisoned so he eases her suffering or Qyburn does something freaky to her.

[Notwisconsin]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

Besides Winter is over and Spring is here.

 

Don't be too sure. KN might be dead, but Winter still may be coming. Why the heck did the KN come out NOW? I mean it was what 8000 years. Something else may be behind him, and with the wall down, other heablies and jeeblies might be headed sout along with some Children of the Forest or an old god or three. 

[Umbelina]

6 hours ago, Eyes High said:

I would be pretty amused if after all the fan meta over the years about how Arya is too damaged for a relationship and doesn't care for such trifles and could never possibly find love that it turns out that Arya/Gendry is the only intact couple when the endgame rolls around. Right now things are looking pretty good for their prospects, with Arya and Gendry kissing in the 8x04 promo and Maisie and apparently Joe filming at Italica.

I pretty much agree with that.

GRRM isn't writing love stories with happy endings, and justice for all, he never has, and I doubt he's going to begin now.

I'm actually pretty shocked that anyone who has read the books, or has even watched this show, thinks there is going to be some romantic ending between Jon and Dany as they sit on thrones and rule a contented, united Kingdom.  I mean....what?

Now, D & D might have, after all, that's what makes TV viewers happy, but however shortcutted, and however flawed?  They have said they are doing GRRM's ending here.  So rather than get angry solely at them, at least recognize that they didn't choose how this story ends.  Will GRRM do it more elegantly?  Probably, and probably with more heartbreak as well.  That is, IF he ever finishes (which I doubt) and IF he doesn't petulantly or after long reflection, change his own ending IF he ever gets back to writing the tale instead of reviewing football and writing new books instead of ASOFI. 

ETA, that said?

I kept really really really hoping that Tyrion would find his wife, and that whore Ayra met was her.  So, I'm not immune to romance, or to hope, I just picked an unlikely pair to wish for.

Edited May 3, 2019 by Umbelina
where do whores go?

[YaddaYadda]

28 minutes ago, Notwisconsin said:

Don't be too sure. KN might be dead, but Winter still may be coming. Why the heck did the KN come out NOW? I mean it was what 8000 years. Something else may be behind him, and with the wall down, other heablies and jeeblies might be headed sout along with some Children of the Forest or an old god or three. 

The children of the forest have been exterminated. The ones that were left died in the cave after it was breached. And the show has done away with that part of the supernatural anyway.

The show never really touched on the length of the seasons, but in the books, the summer that's just ended lasted a little over 10 years. With the WW gone, the seasons should go back to being regular.

[nikma]

I think safe ending where Jon and Dany would rule together is much much worse than this.

I want the show to be brave and controversial. 

Kill Dany. Why not? Let's not act like there weren't hints about this for seasons now. The first were in S4 in that scene with Selmy.

She even wanted to burn Astapor and Yunkai in S6. Why burning KL is different?

And yes it will hurt because deep down she is a good person that did so many great things, but that's why it could be great ending of the story.

Edited May 3, 2019 by nikma

[Wouter]

4 hours ago, Chiny11 said:

Wait a minute... Wait a minute... Greyworm does what now?  Wow!!! 

The more I read these spiolers the more I think I'm so going to regret investing in a show written by D&D. All these years and this is how it ends. 

Careful, those are supposed spoilers that are probably foilers. For all the spoilers and supposed spoilers going around, many people here were convinced that Winterfell would burn down, a lot thought the Golden Company would be involved, some thought the NK would win the battle outright, and I don't think anybody here expected Arya to be the one killing the NK (and in ep3, no less). 

There is also Friki's big leak to consider. If we assume that Jon kills Dany, then Tyrion's supposed betrayal of the Starks would almost have to be killing Jon as revenge (or an attempt). Sounds way more bitter than sweet.

Friki's leak is hard to square with the other supposed spoilers. "They deserved it" could fit, but then that would imply Tyrion is fully on board with Daenerys (or it could imply he himself started the fire, somehow). But then, this would be totally at odds with Tyrion supposedly always siding with his family, as Friki also claimed.

I consider all the supposed spoilers to be unreliable, and even Friki's leak is still in doubt given the claims that HBO has been filming false scenes or otherwise gone to extraordinary lengths to defeat leakers.

I also don't see how Missandei could get captured. If the GC takes the field to attack Dany/The Starks, they should get slaughtered by the dragons. And I can hardly see Missandei going to parley.

That KL seems to burn down is admittedly something that is troubling and that looks rather more likely, but we still don't know the extent or the circumstances. Dragonfire could start it, but maybe not all of the caches of wildfire were used up by Cersei (and Tyrion, earlier in S2) and a large blaze could be unintentional?

It also remains to be seen how reliable set reports are. We had pretty convincing images of Winterfell burning, that were probably only reflections of the fire needed for the trench and for lighting/heating. But where reports about charred bodies in the streets even true? And to what extent, is this most/all of the city or limited to a local area?

3 hours ago, Riplet68 said:

Can’t the burned parts of KLjust be the tops where soldiers were?  There is no problem using the dragons for that,  it’s only if the dragons burn non military areas that would be bad.

From the set pictures I've seen, it looks like Dany (or someone with a dragon) attacks the gates and towers with fire. That could give her troops access to the city, and would not be a mad or especially cruel move. Some of her opponents might surrender after that. If she does decide to really burn down something, it would be more likely the Red Keep, as equivalent to Aegon and Harrenhall.

If there is significant resistance inside the city (but before the Red Keep) after the walls/gates have been breached, Dany might be tempted though to give direct (fire) support with her dragon, which could have terrible consequences that aren't necessarily intented, due to the inherent flammability of medieval cities.

Edited May 3, 2019 by Wouter

[Minneapple]

5 hours ago, Eyes High said:

I remember being completely wrecked by Buffy killing Angel when it happened. That episode was GRRM-worthy levels of angst. Good times!

Me too. That has to rank among the most gut-wrenching television episodes of all time. It was so so heartbreaking but at the same time it was so brave and SO UNBELIEVABLY GOOD. 

GRRM has also proven to write gut-wrenching moments, like Ned Stark's beheading and the Red Wedding. When people say "it sounds like fanfic" -- yeah, that's what I think when I read "Jon and Dany ruling together with a baby on the way." I do not expect Jon and Dany happily ruling together to end the show or the books (well, if those ever end). I expect something gut-wrenching, an emotional wallop like this show has delivered in the past. I know it's been a long time since the show has delivered like that, but I remain hopeful for the finale. Whether that's Jon killing Dany, or Tyrion being executed, or whatever. It better punch me in the gut. 

[WindyNights]

Well, it's over. Someone extremely reliable is pretty much confirming almost that Jon kills Daenerys:

Hey, guys. Some of you might know me from The Walking Dead fandom. I help run a site called The Spoiling Dead Fans. We have been specializing in Walking Dead spoilers for years. Now, I typically don’t deal with GOT spoilers. I leave that to the Freefolk. However, recently one of our members (someone I trust) approached us with what they believe are legit GOT spoilers that they received from their own source.

For the record, I personally CANNOT verify the accuracy of these spoilers. It’s not like TWD, where we have multiple sources that allow us to confirm information. I’m in the dark with these. But I know this community would appreciate them and can maybe make better sense out of everything. So I’m going to share what I have heard... Again, I’m not trying to say these are confirmed. I have no idea. However, they do align with some other things that have come out. I’ll let you guys draw your own conclusions.

• Something happens to make the Unsullied go bat shit crazy. They rampage kill men, women, and children. Might be related to Missandei.

• Tyrion is arrested on Dany's command but does not know his fate at this point. Though he wasn't seen again after this event from the source.

• Cersei does die. Was not told if it was by Arya or if it’s Arya disguised as Jamie when asked.

• Dany turns evil and that the actual ending is bittersweet.

• When asked if Jon kills Dany and the Iron Throne is destroyed. Source said that it was the closest anyone has guessed.

• Source asked what will happen to Bronn? It was suggested that he’d play a pertinent role.

I might potentially learn a bit more later. I’ll be sure to share.

[GraceK]

So, Frikidoctor gets shut down by HBOs legal team and can’t even discuss anything anymore for fear of legal action, but all of sudden all these people are able to openly discuss the biggest twist ending in the world? With no problem? From multiple sources? Yeah ok. 😂😂🤦🏻‍♀️

Edited May 3, 2019 by GraceK

[YaddaYadda]

24 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

• Cersei does die. Was not told if it was by Arya or if it’s Arya disguised as Jamie when asked.

I hope she kills the Mountain too since and cuts Cleganebowl short #spiteful

[aprilbabe]

26 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

Well, it's over. Someone extremely reliable is pretty much confirming almost that Jon kills Daenerys:

Hey, guys. Some of you might know me from The Walking Dead fandom. I help run a site called The Spoiling Dead Fans. We have been specializing in Walking Dead spoilers for years. Now, I typically don’t deal with GOT spoilers. I leave that to the Freefolk. However, recently one of our members (someone I trust) approached us with what they believe are legit GOT spoilers that they received from their own source.

For the record, I personally CANNOT verify the accuracy of these spoilers. It’s not like TWD, where we have multiple sources that allow us to confirm information. I’m in the dark with these. But I know this community would appreciate them and can maybe make better sense out of everything. So I’m going to share what I have heard... Again, I’m not trying to say these are confirmed. I have no idea. However, they do align with some other things that have come out. I’ll let you guys draw your own conclusions.

• Something happens to make the Unsullied go bat shit crazy. They rampage kill men, women, and children. Might be related to Missandei.

• Tyrion is arrested on Dany's command but does not know his fate at this point. Though he wasn't seen again after this event from the source.

• Cersei does die. Was not told if it was by Arya or if it’s Arya disguised as Jamie when asked.

• Dany turns evil and that the actual ending is bittersweet.

• When asked if Jon kills Dany and the Iron Throne is destroyed. Source said that it was the closest anyone has guessed.

• Source asked what will happen to Bronn? It was suggested that he’d play a pertinent role.

I might potentially learn a bit more later. I’ll be sure to share.

Can you post the link to this.

Problem is once one leak is someone reliable. You get a whole bunch on piggy backers. We had a lot of similar leaks for episode 3 and most said the same thing and were wrong. I wonder if no one found that post from months ago, would there  so many dany dies leaks

[Minneapple]

If you don't mind my asking, @WindyNights, where were these spoilers posted?

[Umbelina]

3 minutes ago, aprilbabe said:

Can you post the link to this.

Problem is once one leak is someone reliable. You get a whole bunch on piggy backers. We had a lot of similar leaks for episode 3 and most said the same thing and were wrong. I wonder if no one found that post from months ago, would there  so many dany dies leaks

3 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

If you don't mind my asking, @WindyNights, where were these spoilers posted?

[Morrigan2575]

16 minutes ago, GraceK said:

So, Frikidoctor gets shut down by HBOs legal team and can’t even discuss anything anymore for fear of legal action, but all of sudden all these people are able to openly discuss the biggest twist ending in the world? With no problem? From multiple sources? Yeah ok. 😂😂🤦🏻‍♀️

If that guy is legit from spoiling the dead I give him the benefit of the doubt. They are straight up 100% accurate and careful with TWD spoilers.

That being said I don't know if this person is legit part of the Spoiling the Dead Army. I also don't know if they didn't get played. I would hope they'd be smart enough to only reveal info if it's from someone they trust absolutely. However, this is probably the only show around that has dedicated foilers out there who seem to thrive on creative foilers.

So I'm giving this a 6/10 on legit. 9/10 on creativity if it's indeed a foiler.  It would be a nice touch using a legit spoiler group from another fandom to prop your foiler.

Edited May 3, 2019 by Morrigan2575

[GraceK]

7 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

If that guy is legit from spoiling the dead I give him the benefit of the doubt. They are straight up 100% accurate and careful with TWD spoilers.

That being said I don't know if this person is legit part of the Spoiling the Dead Army. I also don't know if they didn't get played. I would hope they'd be smart enough to only reveal info if it's from someone they trust absolutely. However, this is probably the only show around that has dedicated foilers out there who seem to thrive on creative foilers.

So I'm giving this a 6/10 on legit. 9/10 on creativity if it's indeed a foiler.  It would be a nice touch using a legit spoiler group from another fandom to prop your foiler.

He also did say he can’t prove accuracy.   And so far these past few days we haven’t heard a PEEP from HBO. And the actors have admitted to filming fake endings and scenes. The way this Jon kills Dany “ leak” has taken off like wildfire, I’m leaning toward it’s one of the fake ones.

[Morrigan2575]

6 minutes ago, GraceK said:

He also did say he can’t prove accuracy.   And so far these past few days we haven’t heard a PEEP from HBO. And the actors have admitted to filming fake endings and scenes. The way this Jon kills Dany “ leak” has taken off like wildfire, I’m leaning toward it’s one of the fake ones.

I did only give it a 60%, that's barely passing. 

[BadAssRobinArryn]

So the moral of the story: If you free those slaves they will sooner or later go slaughter your children?

[SeanC]

2 minutes ago, BadAssRobinArryn said:

So the moral of the story: If you free those slaves they will sooner or later go slaughter your children?

That spoiler sounds super-fake to me.  Even if Grey Worm were enraged by Missandei dying (which I could buy, though going from being justly angry to going on a murderous, civilian-killing rampage seems like a stretch), why would all the Unsullied act that way?

Not to mention the racial optics.

[Constantinople]

Dany turning evil and Jon killing her just seems so dull...and unearned. I've never really bought that Dany's cray cray every time she's killed someone. Plenty of other people have killed under plenty of morally questionable circumstances, but they don't get called crazy every time.

Also, they've already had an Evil Queen, two if you count TV Ellaria Sand

[tangerine95]

2 minutes ago, BadAssRobinArryn said:

So the moral of the story: If you free those slaves they will sooner or later go slaughter your children?

Yeah that's a really gross implication in this leak imo.Making the unsulied who suffered so much and who die to save westeros,kill innocents.Really hoping this is a fake leak that took off because it all sounds really terrible.

[ShellsandCheese]

7 minutes ago, tangerine95 said:

Yeah that's a really gross implication in this leak imo.Making the unsulied who suffered so much and who die to save westeros,kill innocents.Really hoping this is a fake leak that took off because it all sounds really terrible.

The optics on this are not good. Suddenly, the foreigners, plenty of whom have brown skin turn,  savage and start murdering random women and children. And we are talking about The Unsullied, who are known for their discipline, etc. 

Edited May 3, 2019 by ShellsandCheese

[Stallion12]

I could see maybe the dothraki if they weren't wiped out, but not the undullied.

That said, I'm hoping the leaks are false, the whole bran on the throne and John taking the black bothers me.

[GraceK]

18 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

Also, they've already had an Evil Queen, two if you count TV Ellaria Sand

Exactly. So every single woman in a position of power in this show ends up evil, and all them men’s put em  back in their place , by killing them bitches! Then they rule honorably, by white boy council. 🙄 of course. 

Edited May 3, 2019 by GraceK