Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[galaxygirl76]

12 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

I totally stan that ending. 

Seriously I read that the writers had no idea Jaime was going to be such a huge fan favorite when they started. And much of that credit goes to Nikolaj Coster-Waldau's humanity as an actor. 

Book Jaime is one of my favorites and Nikolaj did a great job with the character despite my misgivings of some of the things they changed about his character arc. I hope the show gives his a good death, like Theon.

Edited May 13, 2019 by galaxygirl76

[rmontro]

1 minute ago, Umbelina said:

In Dany's supposed compass, it wouldn't MATTER what Jon wanted, he's still the rightful King, and she told him not to tell. 

Well, initially when he told her, I don't think she believed him.  And had to process it.

Then when she told him not to tell, he had said by that time he doesn't want it.  And I thought it sounded a bit too much like begging when she asked him not to tell (and maybe it was), but it turned out she was right.  When the info got out, Varys immediately started to betray her.

[Umbelina]

3 minutes ago, rmontro said:

Well, initially when he told her, I don't think she believed him.  And had to process it.

Then when she told him not to tell, he had said by that time he doesn't want it.  And I thought it sounded a bit too much like begging when she asked him not to tell (and maybe it was), but it turned out she was right.  When the info got out, Varys immediately started to betray her.

Nah, it did show her unstoppable need for power, and it also showed that it had nothing to do with "the right thing for Westeros because of birthright."

I get it, she's fought long and hard for this, but still?  Complete hypocrite.

[stagmania]

Welp. The spoilers are all true. Can’t wait to tune in next week to see Jon kill the crazy bitch, install a council of shitty men and put an end to all these emotional women trying to rule.

[anamika]

Well, that was that. All my theories, speculations and expectations have been subverted. It is what it is. Nothing more to add. I think everything that needs to be said has been said at this point.

[rmontro]

1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

Nah, it did show her unstoppable need for power, and it also showed that it had nothing to do with "the right thing for Westeros because of birthright."

I get it, she's fought long and hard for this, but still?  Complete hypocrite.

She did want to rule to set things right.  But that all ended with episode five.  They've now flipped her to total mad queen.  Complete hypocrite?  Try completely unearned.  If it wasn't so tragic, it would be comical.

No Drogon armor!  What's up with that?

Edited May 13, 2019 by rmontro

[Eyes High]

Looks like the final nail in the coffin of Friki’s Tyrion trial spoiler. Tyrion might be thrown in jail and put on trial, but by Dany. Tyrion also was willing to sacrifice his own life for a shot at convincing Cersei to surrender, so Saint Tyrion is alive and well. He was also aligned firmly with the Jon/Davos camp by the end of the episode and was the one making speeches about avoiding a slaughter while Jon sat around and made sad puppy faces.

So Sansa’s S8 storyline was making trouble for Jon?

Edited May 13, 2019 by Eyes High

[aprilbabe]

How does Jon get away with killing Dany?  She still has a lot of soldiers loyal to her. I guess the part of the leak saying Jon surrenders it true. What happens to her armies and Dragons. They don't have the means to kill them

[SeanC]

Unless we get some Force Ghosts next week, looks like no SAG Ensemble nomination for Lena this season (nor for Jerome Flynn, so I guess she can take comfort in that).

[kellog010]

I'm so pissed at this stupid writing. Jon's man pain next week as he has to put Dany down like Old Yeller is enough to make my head explode. They destroyed 8 seasons of a show I love with a shitty end that makes no sense. And Cercei dying in Jamie's arms like she deserved that ended. Arya riding off on a white horse was as subtle as a sledgehammer. 

[anamika]

Man, fucking D&D. So the Lannisters basically won the Game of Thrones by occupying the Iron Throne continuously from season one to season 8, Cersei and Jaime get their romantic love story and die in the arms of people they love and Saint Tyrion who fucked up Dany's entire campaign gets his happy ending and lives to be 80.

And I am sure D&D's 'smartest person in the world' up North will also get her happy ending after fucking up everything for Jon and Dany.

And fuck everyone else's characterization. D&D don't care at this point.

Was that the last of Arya for this season?

[Chiny11]

Cersei (a villain from the beginning of this series) is humanized in death.  While  Dany, who was built up as a heroic character, is turned into a villain in a single episode.  😐

I mean, who are we (mere fans..no?) to dare suggest it makes no sense and it was not earned. The most important question apparently is  - have your expectations not been subverted? 🙄

[sunflower]

2 minutes ago, Chiny11 said:

Cersei (a villain from the beginning of this series) is humanized in death.  While  Dany, who was built up as a heroic character, is turned into a villain in a single episode.

Really, I just watched 6.10 (her blowing up the Sept), screw this bitch. And Jaime going back for that? was sickening. 

[SeanC]

8 minutes ago, anamika said:

Was that the last of Arya for this season?

She's said to be at the Dragonpit, if I recall correctly.  And she's in the epilogue.

[Umbelina]

Well, so far, the spoilers have been dead on, what there were of them.

The writers finally got GRRM's point about the "small folk" paying the price of the wars between royals...too little, too late, but that part was well done.

FUCK Cersei and that romantic end, and fuck dropping Valanqar.

Loved Arya and the Hound, loved Jon pulling of the rapist, hated the hound dying in fire.

The inside the episode is pretty good at explaining their intent here.

(the intent?  finally follow the books, and quite making Dany and Cersei invincible) 

Edited May 13, 2019 by Umbelina

[Bryce Lynch]

29 minutes ago, stagmania said:

Welp. The spoilers are all true. Can’t wait to tune in next week to see Jon kill the crazy bitch, install a council of shitty men and put an end to all these emotional women trying to rule.

 I have avoided spoilers up until now.  Now I don't care as I will never watch the finale.  Such ridiculous, intentionally bad writing.

[Stallion12]

Yea, hate to say it, but the spoilers are true.

However I still think since the outline didn't mention Jamie killing euro, that bran might not be king. There will definitely be a council though.

2 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Well, so far, the spoilers have been dead on, what there were of them.

The writers finally got GRRM's point about the "small folk" paying the price of the wars between royals...too little, too late, but that part was well done.

FUCK Cersei and that romantic end, and fuck dropping Valanqar.

Loved Arya and the Hound, loved Jon pulling of the rapist, hated the hound dying in fire.

The inside the episode is pretty good at explaining their intent here.

(the intent?  finally follow the books, and quite making Dany and Cersei invincible) 

They admitted to following the books now?

[absnow54]

19 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Unless we get some Force Ghosts next week, looks like no SAG Ensemble nomination for Lena this season (nor for Jerome Flynn, so I guess she can take comfort in that).

I’m still pretty sure she’ll appear as a (unfathomably prestine) corpse next episode. Tyrion would be able to surmise where she ended up since he crafted the escape plan, and Dany will want to make Cersei’s death unquestionable. 

[ShellsandCheese]

Well, I guess the point of no return was crossed. I don't see Drogon surviving after the massacre on King's Landing. I don't think I've ever watched a show that kind of collapsed on itself the way GoT has this season. 

[Umbelina]

8 minutes ago, Stallion12 said:

Yea, hate to say it, but the spoilers are true.

However I still think since the outline didn't mention Jamie killing euro, that bran might not be king. There will definitely be a council though.

They admitted to following the books now?

They always said it was GRRM's ending.

I've been saying GRRM was writing about the small folk crushed by pointless power wars forever here.  They finally showed it.  So yeah, in their inside the episode it's about the first thing they mention, the victims.

Back soon I have to check unsullied reactions to this!!!

Edited May 13, 2019 by Umbelina

[galaxygirl76]

1 minute ago, ShellsandCheese said:

Well, I guess the point of no return was crossed. I don't see Drogon surviving after the massacre on King's Landing. I don't think I've ever watched a show that kind of collapsed on itself the way GoT has this season. 

How I met your mother at least waited until the last ten minutes to turn everything into a total shit show. I'm so upset about this mess, I love the books and I hate that this is how everything ends.

[Stallion12]

5 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:

How I met your mother at least waited until the last ten minutes to turn everything into a total shit show. I'm so upset about this mess, I love the books and I hate that this is how everything ends.

I was thinking of that ending, hated it, but I loved the show up till that point. They didn't ruin the characters to get there. 

[ShellsandCheese]

This episode also proved that both Tyrion and Jon are worthless. I will be pissed if either of them end up in any kind of position of authority. The Northern Soldiers weren't listening to Jon either; I said it in the live chat thread, this episode was like the scouring of The Shire on steriods. Everyone, was letting out years and years of pent up frustration and anger. I do blame Dany tough, she lit the match and the powder keg blew. 

[YaddaYadda]

19 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:

How I met your mother at least waited until the last ten minutes to turn everything into a total shit show. I'm so upset about this mess, I love the books and I hate that this is how everything ends.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't end like this in the books. It's clear that D&D had their own visions for the characters. Dany could end at the end of Jon's sword in the books, but the reason may not be because her screws have come loose. Context is everything. And the journey matters.

If Tyrion lives to 80, I hope the woman bites his cock off and spits it at his head. 

[HeySandyStrange]

I have a suspicion that, since they finally slept together, Brienne will end the show knocked up with Jaime's baby. After seeing the lame ass way Jaime went out, after giving up the magnificent beast Knight of Tarth for his psycho sister, I really hope my theory isn't true. Has there been any spoilers saying how Brienne ends the show? 

[Umbelina]

8 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

I'm pretty sure it doesn't end like this in the books. It's clear that D&D had their own visions for the characters. Dany could end at the end of Jon's sword in the books, but the reason may not be because her screws have come loose. Context is everything. And the journey matters.

If Tyrion lives to 80, I hope the woman bites his cock off and spits it at his head. 

I'm pretty sure it does end like this, otherwise D&D would have given everyone the Disney ending so many would have preferred.

[Raachel2008]

4 minutes ago, HeySandyStrange said:

I have a suspicion that, since they finally slept together, Brienne will end the show knocked up with Jaime's baby. After seeing the lame ass way Jaime went out, after giving up the magnificent beast Knight of Tarth for his psycho sister, I really hope my theory isn't true. Has there been any spoilers saying how Brienne ends the show? 

We are all hoping whoever said Bronn sits in the council Bran oversees is actually Brienne and the leak just mixed the names.

[dirtypop90]

Back to the discussion earlier about some of us wishing Jon was playing the game--did anyone else find his reaction to Varys interesting? He didn't seem all that upset that Varys knew and, when he said he didn't want the throne, he said it with zero conviction.  He also told Dany he loved her with no conviction.  I know, I know...it's probably my wishful thinking that Jon is not as simple as he seems.

[HeySandyStrange]

3 minutes ago, Raachel2008 said:

We are all hoping whoever said Bronn sits in the council Bran oversees is actually Brienne and the leak just mixed the names.

Man I hope so. Much better then my fear of Brienne being knocked up by Jaime.

[anamika]

4 minutes ago, dirtypop90 said:

He didn't seem all that upset that Varys knew and, when he said he didn't want the throne, he said it with zero conviction.  He also told Dany he loved her with no conviction.  I know, I know...it's probably my wishful thinking that Jon is not as simple as he seems.

Jon Snow is not allowed to react on the show.

Next episode after knowing that Sansa broke her word to him, he will kiss her on the forehead and be like no worries, don't do it next time and walk off.

[galaxygirl76]

5 minutes ago, HeySandyStrange said:

Man I hope so. Much better then my fear of Brienne being knocked up by Jaime.

That would make me rage so hard, especially knowing that he went back crawling to Cersei.

[dirtypop90]

1 minute ago, anamika said:

Jon Snow is not allowed to react on the show.

Next episode after knowing that Sansa broke her word to him, he will kiss her on the forehead and be like no worries, don't do it next time and walk off.

That would make sense if he really didn't want her to keep the secret. Dany is right in that it's hard to believe Jon didn't know Sansa would tell others.

[Umbelina]

5 minutes ago, anamika said:

Jon Snow is not allowed to react on the show.

Next episode after knowing that Sansa broke her word to him, he will kiss her on the forehead and be like no worries, don't do it next time and walk off.

The actor actually said something like that when he was on a panel somewhere.  Jon does not react much, he is super internal, and I got the idea that was what the directors wanted.  Well, that, and if most of his scenes he was acting in Iceland with 40 below temps and his face could not move.

[anamika]

22 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

If Tyrion lives to 80, I hope the woman bites his cock off and spits it at his head. 

lol! Man, show Tyrion and his good guy act pisses me off so much. It was his constant gas lighting of Dany that lead to her finally snapping IMO.

Just now, dirtypop90 said:

That would make sense if he really didn't want her to keep the secret. Dany is right in that it's hard to believe Jon didn't know Sansa would tell others.

Show Jon Snow is a moron of unimaginable proportions. He told Sansa because the plot required that Tyrion and Varys get this information and the  'smartest person Arya has ever met' needed to give them that information. He was just a plot device there to transmit the information from point A to point B. That's all he has ever been for some time now.

Book Jon Snow is my favorite character and and I really despise the show version and wish he stayed dead at the end of season 5 with his book arc. They could have just let Sansa take over for the North plot since D&D are only interested in writing for her.

[dirtypop90]

4 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

The actor actually said something like that when he was on a panel somewhere.  Jon does not react much, he is super internal, and I got the idea that was what the directors wanted.  Well, that, and if most of his scenes he was acting in Iceland with 40 below temps and his face could not move.

But that's new. He used to show emotion. Compare this season to the lead up to the battle of the bastards and aftermath. He showed emotion in season 6. This season he has even crazier stuff happening to him and he barely blinks.

Edited May 13, 2019 by dirtypop90

[Brn2bwild]

58 minutes ago, Stallion12 said:

Yea, hate to say it, but the spoilers are true.

However I still think since the outline didn't mention Jamie killing euro, that bran might not be king. There will definitely be a council though.

They admitted to following the books now?

Most were true.  But Drogon in armor, Jon killing Dany because he sees her aiming Drogon at Arya in the Red Keep, Yara fighting and dying, Brienne showing up and trying to see Jaime were false.

[Umbelina]

1 minute ago, dirtypop90 said:

But that's new. He used to show emotion. Compare to the battles this season to the lead up to the battle of the bastards and aftermath. He showed emotion in season 6. This season he has even crazier stuff happening to him and he barely blinks.

I'll chalk it up to shock and disgust at banging his aunt.  😉

[Couver]

I wonder what ridiculous way they will kill Drogon off next episode? The means to kill a dragon all just got torched.

The optics of this seasons are so problematic. They keep running with this madness being in the Targaryen's blood but no one worries and wonders if the male Targaryen will go mad?

Why is Dany evil for doing the same thing in war that every major character has done including the Starks who felt it their birth right to take back the North?

Arya clutching her pearls at dead civilians but did she make sure every Frey she killed was guilty of her brother and mother's murder?

This show absolutely could have done a good job with a tragic ending. If they bothered to actual build to it. Why didn't they just get maybe an 8 episode season instead of 6? Or do more in season 7?

[Raachel2008]

Eh, I think it is pretty clear Kit wasn’t invested in most of his scenes. I know I wouldn’t in his place.

I don’t want Brienne to be pregnant, nevr thought about it, but  now that you said it I don’t think it is impossible. 

[dirtypop90]

1 minute ago, Umbelina said:

I'll chalk it up to shock and disgust at banging his aunt.  😉

We didn't even get a reaction to that!  The writers also don't let him have any scenes with anyone expressing his thoughts and feelings. This season all I've heard from jon is night king and "she's my queen." What is going on in his brain? How is it not important to tell your audience how the freakin main character is feeling about all the crap happening to him?

[anamika]

5 minutes ago, dirtypop90 said:

But that's new. He used to show emotion. Compare this season to the lead up to the battle of the bastards and aftermath. He showed emotion in season 6. This season he has even crazier stuff happening to him and he barely blinks.

Maybe Kit Harington stopped giving a damn and stopped acting after only getting height jokes and shit writing for three seasons. 

What is even the point of Jon Snow on the show at this point? Seriously, if he had died three seasons ago, nothing would have changed and things would have gone better for Dany and she would even now be sitting in KL.

Jon's like the most useless character at this point. At least Dany is going out fighting for something that she has gone after since season one and by being a dragon. Jon's entire character is apparently just there to kill Dany and then fuck off to the North to Ghost - with whom he does not even have a relationship anymore because D&D could not be bothered to write even that.

[raven]

1 minute ago, dirtypop90 said:

How is it not important to tell your audience how the freakin main character is feeling about all the crap happening to him?

Because it's really hard for these dummies to write good dialogue and much easier to film endless scenes of buildings falling and people running and screaming.

[screamin]

1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

The inside the episode is pretty good at explaining their intent here.

(the intent?  finally follow the books, and quite making Dany and Cersei invincible) 

Too little, too late. The show should explain their intent adequately. If we have to see the explanation in an aftershow to get what they meant by it, they failed.

[Umbelina]

6 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

Most were true.  But Drogon in armor, Jon killing Dany because he sees her aiming Drogon at Arya in the Red Keep, Yara fighting and dying, Brienne showing up and trying to see Jaime were false.

Yeah, but those were the later spoilers and most of us didn't buy all of them.

1 minute ago, Couver said:

I wonder what ridiculous way they will kill Drogon off next episode? The means to kill a dragon all just got torched.

The optics of this seasons are so problematic. They keep running with this madness being in the Targaryen's blood but no one worries and wonders if the male Targaryen will go mad?

Why is Dany evil for doing the same thing in war that every major character has done including the Starks who felt it their birth right to take back the North?

Arya clutching her pearls at dead civilians but did she make sure every Frey she killed was guilty of her brother and mother's murder?

This show absolutely could have done a good job with a tragic ending. If they bothered to actual build to it. Why didn't they just get maybe an 8 episode season instead of 6? Or do more in season 7?

I think that's the point, all of those with a lust to RULE have an element of evil.  I don't think Dany was mad as in crazy here, this was pure fury and frustration at the end of a long road.  She's not more crazy that the other murderers who start wars for power.

The entire Frey family participated in that massacre.  Arya doesn't kill "innocents" but if one or two weren't there?  She wanted to wipe out that family, they way they wiped out hers.  Her list has always been full of murderers and torturers.

Maybe Drogon lives?  She's already done her damage.  Maybe Dany dies and Drogon really does fly off with her body.  BUT, if a dragon lives, wouldn't that mean white walkers would revive as well?  They better explain the magic of that.

1 minute ago, Raachel2008 said:

Eh, I think it is pretty clear Kit wasn’t invested in most of his scenes. I know I wouldn’t in his place.

I don’t want Brienne to be pregnant, nevr thought about it, but  now that you said it I don’t think it is impossible. 

I think it would be lovely if SER Brienne has a baby.  Then again, I adore Jaime (book version not show) and I think that would be wonderful.  A kind of second chance...

1 minute ago, dirtypop90 said:

We didn't even get a reaction to that!  The writers also don't let him have any scenes with anyone expressing his thoughts and feelings. This season all I've heard from jon is night king and "she's my queen." What is going on in his brain? How is it not important to tell your audience how the freakin main character is feeling about all the crap happening to him?

I disagree, he's looked like he wanted to vomit a few times, and as if he's trying to cover that up.

[screamin]

19 minutes ago, dirtypop90 said:

That would make sense if he really didn't want her to keep the secret. Dany is right in that it's hard to believe Jon didn't know Sansa would tell others.

I know, right?! Jon didn't even seem surprised that Varys knew - as if he'd been expecting it.

[Lemuria]

9 hours ago, Umbelina said:

He shares what they need to know.

Or what he thinks they need to know and since he doesn't feel most emotions anymore or really care about people, that might not be what the council (assuming there is one) actually need to know.

[SeanC]

7 minutes ago, Couver said:

Arya clutching her pearls at dead civilians but did she make sure every Frey she killed was guilty of her brother and mother's murder?

She actually did; part of her speech notes that everybody there was a participant in the Red Wedding.

[Umbelina]

5 minutes ago, raven said:

Because it's really hard for these dummies to write good dialogue and much easier to film endless scenes of buildings falling and people running and screaming.

Nailed it.

Oh by the way, in the books anyway, there quite possible is a surviving Stark.  Robb's wife is a different person, and she wasn't stabbed in the stomach or killed at the Frey's.  That baby will grow up if she survives, and it's probably a boy.

[Brn2bwild]

15 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

Most were true.  But Drogon in armor, Jon killing Dany because he sees her aiming Drogon at Arya in the Red Keep, Yara fighting and dying, Brienne showing up and trying to see Jaime were false.

Just to add, yet remarkably, the green wildfire explosions were true.  Question now is whether Cersei planted them to potentially bring down the city in the event Dany unleashed her dragon, or they were leftovers from the Mad King and we're supposed to see the irony that years later, his daughter unleashes them.

[stagmania]

These are the spoilers that have fully borne out. A few of the items are grouped together in slightly misleading ways, but all of it happened. And they were originally posted MONTHS ago. Seems clear this will be the ending.