Season 3 Discussion

[Brattinella]

The Vatican Rag and Poisoning Pigeons in The Park never fail to make me laugh, still!  I adore Tom Lehrer!

[MaryHedwig]

9 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

17 hours ago, statsgirl said:

sex on the stairs

All I could think there was "Ouch!" Sheesh, Sidney, at least literally take Amanda  to bed.

 

5 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

I was also grossed out when Amanda initially pushed him away only to pull him back. Gross.

Wasn't that the first time Sidney and Amanda had sex, ever? Wasn't poor Amanda dust-dry? No points for foreplay and technique, Sidney.

Edited July 11, 2017 by MaryHedwig

[magdalene]

11 hours ago, tootsie said:

Ick. Just ick. It's hard to credit, but I now find myself  longing for the sensible plot line of a tiger roaming the English countryside willy-nilly.  Endeavour in August. Yes, please.

Ha, ha, I liked that Endeavor tiger episode, it was exciting and I was on the edge of my seat.

Meanwhile, on Grantchester, I am only on the edge of throwing something at the TV in disgust of what our "heroes" get up to. 

I don't know why I am still watching this show, I must be a glutton for punishment or live in the naive hope that we get the quality of the first season back.

[JudyObscure]

13 hours ago, magdalene said:

I don't know why I am still watching this show,

I asked myself that question and realized it was for Mrs. Macguire, Leonard and Dickens.  Oh and our endless circular arguments here.  I admit I enjoy them.

I watched Leonard's proposal again last night and told myself that his words about contentment were his attempt to tell Hillary not to expect much excitement.  I'm usually quite angry with gay men who marry innocent straight women for use as a beard, but I think it's different with these two.  Without this marriage I see them both living lonely, childless lives.  Together they can share in Leonard's busy career, perhaps have a child or two, have couple friends, go to Bingo, etc. 

I have friends who have enjoyed a platonic marriage since we were all in college together, he was always a bit  effeminate, she was plain, and both were always dateless until they started going out together.  Now these many years later they are still together, where many of the rest of us married and later divorced. So what if they don't have a sex life?  Most  of us who married in a fever of passion don't anymore either.

[dubbel zout]

AFAIC, if you know you're a beard and are okay with it, you do you. It's the lying that's problematic for me. I really hope Leonard tells his girlfriend he's attracted to men, then she can decide if that's a deal breaker. She at least should have all the necessary information before going into the marriage.

Edited July 11, 2017 by dubbel zout

[MissLucas]

On a historical side-note. There's one famous royal) marriage with that dynamic: Louis d'Orléans (brother of Louis XIV) and Princess Elizabeth Charlotte of the Palatinate. The Duchess of Orléans wrote tons of -very- frank letters about the life at Versailles and her marriage to the openly homosexual Monsieur (as he was styled). Their marriage went surprisingly well for a while (incl. giggles in bed). AFAIK she knew exactly what she was getting into (it was his second marriage) and the 17th century was less prudish than the 19th about such things.

[Kohola3]

21 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

She at least should have all the necessary information before going into the marriage.

I agree.  Leonard owes that to her and as a man of the cloth he should know that lying, especially to this lonely vulnerable girl, is the wrong thing to do.  With that said the mores of that time period would probably make him seem like something abnormal to her and I would imagine make it hard for her to accept easily, if at all.

[JudyObscure]

I agree that Leonard needs to make it clear to her that he's not terribly comfortable with the bedroom side of things, but I don't think he needs to blurt out , "I am an Homosexual!" at a time when someone as sheltered as Hillary may never have heard of such a thing, or only as a horrible perversion.  Leonard's past attractions are his own business  and I don't think he needs to tell her about them anymore than she's required to tell him about any past affair she may have had.  At that time some people would say that if Hillary isn't a virgin then Leonard is entitled to know that before he makes his decision, but I don't agree with that either.  Neither person is lying if they don't tell every detail about their sexual past.

He himself doesn't know half of what we understand today so he may believe that he can change.    These days, we know he can't really change who he's attracted to, but he surely can decide not to seek out other men and live within his promises. 

Catholic religious make a vow not to have sex with anyone at all and usually manage to keep those vows even though they, no doubt, feel attraction to people they meet from time to time. Leonard may feel like that's what he's doing in regards to his attraction to men.  It doesn't mean he's lying to anyone or not living an authentic life.

That said,  I don't think the writer agrees with me.  I imagine we're set to see a story where Leonard implodes from sexual frustration and takes Hillary down with him.  That's where we are in current thinking, the BBC loves to lecture, and Sidney, with his  Buddhist sermons about living in the now, will help.   

[dubbel zout]

2 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

With that said the mores of that time period would probably make him seem like something abnormal to her and I would imagine make it hard for her to accept easily, if at all.

One thing I don't think the show is very good at is showing much nuance about these sorts of things. It's not that kind of show, I get it, but it would be nice to see some shades of gray instead of either total acceptance or total rejection.

[Kohola3]

Finally got around to watching and I loved Leonard calling Mr. Dour Face Vicar a bastard. 

Geordie and Sidney can go suck an egg.

[ShelleySue]

I cold have sworn that Geordie and his family were Catholics. This season his daughter was in the Christmas pageant at Sidney's church and I thought that maybe it was open to everyone.  But during this last episode Geordie and Sidney were talking about religion and it was clear that Geordie is Anglican.  Did anyone else think that he was Catholic?

[Kohola3]

Not me.

[magdalene]

6 hours ago, ShelleySue said:

I cold have sworn that Geordie and his family were Catholics. This season his daughter was in the Christmas pageant at Sidney's church and I thought that maybe it was open to everyone.  But during this last episode Geordie and Sidney were talking about religion and it was clear that Geordie is Anglican.  Did anyone else think that he was Catholic?

Since the first season I have had the impression that Geordie is Anglican in name but basically Agnostic.  He had a couple of conversations with Sidney when they were getting to know each other stating this.

[Percysowner]

I really feel for Leonard. It seemed he was perfectly willing to work to "avoid the temptations of the flesh". resist his urges and live a celibate life. Then the Bishop basically tells him that too many people have sussed out that he is gay and made a mistake early on, so his ONLY recourse is to marry and have a family. I honestly believe he wouldn't have even considered leading on that sweet girl (whose name I'm blanking on) is the Bishop hadn't basically ordered him to go find a beard or either never advance in the Church or even lose his job. He's in a horrible, horrible position and he's trying to make it work with a woman he likes, cares for, who doesn't have other options. The only problem is he doesn't want her sexually. Yes, he could tell her his orientation, but that risks her freaking out and outing him. I do believe, if he actually marries her, he will do his best to make the marriage work and be a good husband, even if the marriage is relatively sexless.

Sidney and Amanda leave me going between boredom and anger. I watched season one an was completely uninterested in their "star crossed" love. I missed season two and when season three started, all I could think is are they STILL angsting about that boring dead relationship?

Geordie and Margaret just make me mad. I want to punch Geordie or better yet, have Cathy find out, get the proof that Amanda would have to manufacture, and then divorce his cheating ass. I'm not thrilled that Margaret is involved with him, but since I think if she does get pregnant, Geordie will suddenly realize that she isn't the great, exciting, sexy affair, but is the same as Cathy, about to become a boring wife and mother. Then he will probably dump her because he already has a boring wife and he doesn't need another, younger one.

[Kohola3]

Why do both leads have to be unlikable jerks?  And now throwing poor Leonard, his girlfriend, and Cathy under the bus.  This series has gotten absolutely joyless.

[HelenBaby]

Well, everything went to shit, didn't it? That was a depressing episode for everyone. 

[piedmontgirl]

Geordie is a pig and Sidney should turn his vicar license in.

[HoodlumSheep]

This felt like it should have been the season finale. Kinda disappointed we still have another episode to go.

Phil finally got his revenge!!!!!! Yay!!! Didn't imagine him being a mason though. Actually, most of the police people seem to be in on it so i wonder if it'll ever get purged and reformed. Poor Cathy though. She does not deserve this.

I don't buy amanda not knowing about the affair. I did like her being miffed at sidney though, because he did nothing. Glad she's at least on cathy's side. 

Hillary (?) was rightfully upset and i'm glad she quickly bailed. Poor leonard too. Bby, no. I was screaming at the tv when he picked up thst razor. However, i didn't care for daniel showing up. Like, how ridiculously convenient that the photographer hillary hired turned out to be him. Personally i think leonard can do better.

Also, i kinda like how the archbishop isn't afraid to smack talk back at sidney. Despite my misgivings about his character, he shows a strong will. 

Poor Mrs. Maguire. Ronnie, you jerk. She should have let jack slug him when he had the chance.

Well, if sidney gives up the collar for good, i can give up this show. That would literally be throwing the entire premise of the show out the window and promptly stomping and spitting all over it. In which case, i'm out.

Glad we got another mention of the war between sidney and ronnie though. Honestly, i didn't care how the ptsd/war stuff got dropped (at least on sidney's side of things) after season 1, so i'm happy whenever it gets brought up.

Edited July 17, 2017 by HoodlumSheep

[statsgirl]

How convenient for Geordie that he watched Love, Actually for ideas on what to get the wife and the girlfriend.

Sidney is 1000x better when he's not in Amanda's vicinity, although I cheered when she called him on his hypocrisy.  I would be quite happy to have the season end on this episode.  Unfortunately there are still two more left.

Of course Mrs. McGuire's husband stole not only her life savings but also her locket.  Because that's how this show rolls.

[Brattinella]

I'm getting really tired of depressing shit on PBS on Sunday nights.

[sinycalone]

Amanda has balls calling Sidney for his hypocrisy -- I think she knew about the affair, too.

Glad the Bishop gave it right back to Sidney.  Boo-hoo, Sidney -- you were really more upset because you couldn't marry a divorced woman than about Leonard's dilemma I strongly suspect.

Phil got his revenge....but it damaged Cathy more than Geordie.  

I agree that if Sidney gives up his collar for good, the point of the show is gone.  A bit of news for you, Sidney -- the church won't give up it's position on adultery.  And you are an adulterer.

[HappyPeppyPerson]

8 hours ago, Brattinella said:

I'm getting really tired of depressing shit on PBS on Sunday nights.

Not only that, but right after "Grantchester" came the scary "Remember Me", just before my bedtime.  I had to sleep on the couch last night, with a light on.

Edited July 17, 2017 by HappyPeppyPerson

[tootsie]

Didn't watch the episode & didn't miss it. Figured I'd check in here to see if anyone (I'm looking at you, Geordie and Sidney) got his rightful comeuppance. Doesn't sound like it.

I have 2 issues about the show, 1 broad and 1 specific. The latter is Sidney's un-vicar-like behavior, especially for the 1950's. Out at night in jazz clubs with a married woman? As someone experienced with the mystery of communication in small to mid size parishes, that knowledge would be common in his congregation before the next service. And it would be dealt with on several levels, not necessarily top down either. The fact that he did not pursue the request for forgiveness from the woman who had the abortion ("God will forgive me, won't He?") says that Sid has long passed the point of being a true shepherd. Forgiveness and God in the same question is a trigger of sorts for any clergyman and while the answers might vary depending on theology, the question would get some kinds of acknowledgement. Admittedly, she was Catholic and Sid isn't but his total silence after the Q said a lot. His flock would be well aware of his loss of interest in spiritual matters and he would not still be there, (flexing his manly muscles or not. )

On a broader level, I personally feel betrayed by Grantchester because it's shown on Masterpiece MYSTERY. Imo, that means the puzzle dominates. Of course, there are relationships and personalities involved, too, but the mystery should be primary. Otherwise, it's simply Downton 30 years later and should show up on one of the other iterations of Masterpiece. All the moral and sexual angst of Grantchester has overcome the puzzle and that feels wrong - to me, anyway. The writers have stepped over a line (that I admit may be only in MY mind.) Maybe better shown on Masterpiece CLASSIC?

Edited July 17, 2017 by tootsie

[dubbel zout]

10 hours ago, HoodlumSheep said:

Phil finally got his revenge!!!!!! Yay!!!

I hated that. Geordie was right that Phil needed to grow up a bit before becoming a sergeant. But instead Phil uses his connections to get his promotion. Ugh. 

Who played the superintendent? He looked so familiar.

Poor Leonard. Poor Hilary. They were never going to work out if he couldn't be honest with her. I also thought Hilary's personality changed a bit too quickly. I can fanwank it as now that her father is gone a giant burden has been lifted and she can breathe again and be herself, yada yada, but it would have been nice to see a bit of that. Or have her say something like that. It didn't need to be a big thing.

The archdeacon is sort of awesome. I still don't entirely like him, but him giving it right back to Sidney was great. And necessary.

ETA: I also simultaneously chuckled and rolled my eyes that Sidney seemingly expected the archdeacon to tacitly approve of Sidney seeing Amanda. Going to jazz clubs is one thing; sleeping with a divorced woman is quite another. The archdeacon has to bring the hammer down on the latter. It's kind of his job.

Edited July 17, 2017 by dubbel zout

[HoodlumSheep]

10 hours ago, Brattinella said:

I'm getting really tired of depressing shit on PBS on Sunday nights.

It isn't so much the shows that are depressing for me. It's the sudden downward spiral of terrible main couples that we've been getting. You can't really root for them anymore. At least on the shows I've watched. Poldark-Ross' character has tanked and demelza should not have to put up with that crap. Grantchester-Sidney and Amanda, toxic and unhealthy. My mother and Other strangers-one of the worst romances i've seen on tv (and pbs) in recent memory. 

I don't watch Call the Midwives and I didn't watch Homefires so I can't vouch for them. The Durrells makes sense when it comes to their relationship stuff and there really hasn't been any big romances for them to flub up yet.

Victoria...while stuck with historical accuracy, I still can't really get behind vicbert because I just felt like the "instant connection" seemed so...forced and they still aren't really on equal ground yet. Also...*whispers* their chemistry pales in comparison to what we got from jenna and rufus. Which only made my feelings about them worse.

41 minutes ago, tootsie said:

Didn't watch the episode & didn't miss it. Figured I'd check in here to see if anyone (I'm looking at you, Geordie and Sidney) got his rightful comeuppance. Doesn't sound like it.

I have 2 issues about the show, 1 broad and 1 specific. The latter is Sidney's un-vicar-like behavior, especially for the 1950's. Out at night in jazz clubs with a married woman? As someone experienced with the mystery of communication in small to mid size parishes, that knowledge would be common in his congregation before the next service. And it would be dealt with on several levels. The fact that he did not pursue the request for forgiveness from the woman who had the abortion ("God will forgive me, won't He?") says that Sid has long passed the point of being a true shepherd of his flock. And his flock would be well aware of that. He would not still be there, flexing his manly muscles or not. 

On a broader level, I personally feel betrayed by Grantchester because it's shown on Masterpiece MYSTERY. Imo, that means the puzzle dominates. Of course, there are relationships and personalities involved, too, but the mystery should be primary. Otherwise, it's simply Downton 30 years later and should show up on one of the other iterations of Masterpiece. All the moral and sexual angst of Grantchester has overcome the puzzle and that feels wrong - to me, anyway. The writers have stepped over a line (that I admit may be only in MY mind.) Maybe better shown on Masterpiece CLASSIC?

I feel the same too. As the show goes on and on, sidney has been getting farther and farther away from his vicar duties. Like he basically just gives the sermon at this point. I suppose that lines up with his crisis of faith, but still. That's the premise of the show. A vicar and a cop solve crimes together. If sidney quits, then the premise is dead. I started watching this show because it was a good mix between the cop work and the religion/vicar stuff. And yeah, the mystery has been shoved to the side at this point. Instead we're stuck with icky relationship drama. 

That's a reason why I haven't invested in the dvds of this series.

I really hope they can salvage this show by looping it back into what season one was. That mention of the war gave me a shred of hope even though i know i'm setting myself for disappointment. Like, it seems to be leading back to why sidney even became a vicar in the first place, with him being lost snd all, which was kinda explained with the war stuff in season one. Let's go back and visit that, please.

Edited July 17, 2017 by HoodlumSheep

[Pickles]

So, Sidney and Amanda could not act like a couple at the cricket match, but they can go as a couple to the ball?

[JudyObscure]

I found the episode upsetting but very satisfying.  I've complained for years about shows placing 21st century attitudes in people of the past, so this time, while it was painful, I feel like they got it right. 

Leonard's break-up was awful to watch, poor Hillary called "vulgar and disgusting," and her angry "there's something wrong with you," made my heart break for both of them, but it was a lot more real than my own pie in the sky hopes for them that I had last week. 

Cathy knows now, and Geordie is going to have to choose. 

Phil is such a weak young man that when he does something awful, I feel more sorry for him than angry. I never would have guessed he was married.

Sidney finally got the message that the Church simply wasn't going to stand for his actions anymore and I loved the way the bishop stood up to Sidney and wasn't falling for the, "But we're all only human," excuse.  You have to, at least,  be seen to try Sidney!

Mrs. Macguire,  always my favorite, put Sidney (as well as divorced me) in our place, with her simple, strong morals.  "I can't divorce him.  I took a vow before God."  Wow.

[beadgirl]

Poor, poor Cathy.  Phil's "revenge" hurt her and the children more than Geordie, and for that I can't forgive him.

And Leonard and Hilary are breaking my heart.  I'm glad Hilary stood up for herself.  Oh, I soooo want her to find a good man, and for Leonard to be able to confide in her, so they can become good friends, and for Leonard to have a contented, unmarried life (whether chastely or super super discreetly, I'll leave up to him). Leonard freely deciding that his faith is more important to him than a romantic relationship is totally fine with me; it's the lying i can't bear, and the  damage it will do.

Honestly, I'm liking Amanda more and more, now that she's no longer trying to have her cake and eat it, too.  But she needs to give up on Sidney entirely and focus on her daughter and making a living.

Sidney, you are an ass, and I'm so glad the Bishop ripped into you after you pulled the race card.  Also, your theology is bad -- that whole war between the flesh and the spirit is a kind of Gnostism, and a big no-no in traditional Christian theology (flesh and spirit are inextricably intertwined, neither is better than the other), even if you are by no means the only priest to fall into that kind of dualistic thinking.

[sinycalone]

36 minutes ago, beadgirl said:

Poor, poor Cathy.  Phil's "revenge" hurt her and the children more than Geordie, and for that I can't forgive him.

And Leonard and Hilary are breaking my heart.  I'm glad Hilary stood up for herself.  Oh, I soooo want her to find a good man, and for Leonard to be able to confide in her, so they can become good friends, and for Leonard to have a contented, unmarried life (whether chastely or super super discreetly, I'll leave up to him). Leonard freely deciding that his faith is more important to him than a romantic relationship is totally fine with me; it's the lying i can't bear, and the  damage it will do.

Honestly, I'm liking Amanda more and more, now that she's no longer trying to have her cake and eat it, too.  But she needs to give up on Sidney entirely and focus on her daughter and making a living.

Sidney, you are an ass, and I'm so glad the Bishop ripped into you after you pulled the race card.  Also, your theology is bad -- that whole war between the flesh and the spirit is a kind of Gnostism, and a big no-no in traditional Christian theology (flesh and spirit are inextricably intertwined, neither is better than the other), even if you are by no means the only priest to fall into that kind of dualistic thinking.

Yes....poor Cathy (and their children).  Phil's revenge should have been directed specifically to Geordie - and not a public humiliation for Cathy.  He'd gotten his promotion -- there was no need to reveal Geordie's affair..  And throwing the news at her during the ball was beyond cruel.

I agree Amanda needs to move on...and worry about her child, and their future without Sidney.  Her husband is not evil....he will assist her and their daughter.  If, after establishing her independence further. she wants to make another go at their marriage....so be it.

Leonard and Hillary could be friends...but it would be extremely difficult after being engaged then calling it off.  However, I'd like to see them make that attempt.

Mrs. Maguire - ah, is it wrong to hope that the cancer story was legitimate and her husband will indeed succomb to it...soon?>

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

Leonard's break-up was awful to watch, poor Hillary called "vulgar and disgusting," and her angry "there's something wrong with you,"

At least it wasn't about Leonard being gay, as I don't think Hilary had a clue. He was so violently opposed to a physical relationship with her, rejecting her on a very personal level. That's one reason I wish we'd had a bit more evolvement of Hilary's state of mind, because the woman we originally met didn't seem all that interested in sex.

I kind of wonder how effective a pastor Leonard will be if he can't have frank conversations about difficult issues. Sometimes you have to say the words.

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

Mrs. Macguire,  always my favorite, put Sidney (as well as divorced me) in our place, with her simple, strong morals.  "I can't divorce him.  I took a vow before God."  Wow.

This is what I absolutely despise about religion. (Or at least certain religions.) The woman (and let's face it, it's almost always the woman) is in a terrible position—her husband abandons/abuses/generally mistreats her, but she has to suck it up because she "took a vow before God." Fuck that. I've never been able to reconcile the idea that a benevolent God wants His children to suffer like that. That probably explains why I'm a collapsed Protestant/near atheist.

[saber5055]

Cathy being told about Geordie's affair only hurt Cathy. Phil was a POS to say anything to her, especially in public, he would have been better served to twist Geordie in the air at work with that knowledge. Now Geordie MIGHT have to break it off with Margaret. Or not. Cathy has suspected him of cheating before, so what's new. Meanwhile, I was so sorry for Leonard's engagement to be off. In that era, sexless marriages were pretty common, and gay men married because society forced them to. Even now, I know many gay men who are married, so things haven't changed THAT much whether we think they have or not. People are forced to "belong" or they are ostracized by society. My question is, Amanda was "too good" to be a vicar's wife so Sidney never spoke up before she got married. Now all of a sudden, she's married and has a child and NOW she's okay to be a vicar's wife? Except she can't be? I really don't find Sidney remotely interesting any more based on that storyline. And I find that highly disappointing since Sidney Eye Candy USED TO BE the highlight of my Sunday nights. Not any more. I'd be happy with it becoming The Leonard Show and Sidney can stay gone.

[Driad]

I move to end this mess with a murder-suicide involving Sidney, Amanda, and Geordie (who will have plenty of life insurance). Do I hear a second?

[jadecorleone]

I used to love this show so much.  Now when I watch it, Im fast forwarding to certain scenes. If there is a 4th season, I really hope they do some restructuring. It needs it bad.

[moviewhore]

Geordie needs to meet a woodchopper now.  I find him almost sociopathic in his disregard for his wife.  Buying your mistress a necklace-and where the hell did he find the money for that thing-while givng your wife a kitchen appliance says it all.  I used to adore him but no more. I hate his guts and it's character assassination with this bullshit.   Seeing Kathy just crumble and KNOW that Geordie loves another woman after she put so much effort into looking great for the party just made me sick to my stomach.

 

Sidney isn't so bad but at least he recognizes his hypocrisy unlike Geordie who really doesn't seem to care at all.  I don't like either man right now but Sidney hasn't lost me just yet. 

 

Is it just me or do Green and Norton seem as bored with this crap like we are?  Really, the show can die now.  I don't want another season and think they can do much better that this.

[treeofdreams]

Quote

Who played the superintendent? He looked so familiar.

That was Adrian Lukis, better known as Mr. Wickham of Pride & Prejudice (Colin Firth version).

[dubbel zout]

Thank you, treeofdreams!

[saber5055]

I appreciate your effort to end this mess of a season, Driad. I like Leonard, Cathy, Mrs. McGuire and that's about it. Maybe Cathy can marry Leonard and be his beard after Geordie is murdered by Phil (who goes to prison), and those three end up living together in the vicarage. Amanda and Sidney run away to join the circus/jazz club singers/drunken alley hobos. I don't care. The baby can go back to Amanda's husband, never to be seen again. I guess that's my solution ... which ain't gonna happen, but I can dream, can't I?

[JudyObscure]

5 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

This is what I absolutely despise about religion. (Or at least certain religions.) The woman (and let's face it, it's almost always the woman) is in a terrible position—her husband abandons/abuses/generally mistreats her, but she has to suck it up because she "took a vow before God." Fuck that. I've never been able to reconcile the idea that a benevolent God wants His children to suffer like that.

When Jesus said there was too much divorce going on, he was mainly talking to the men, who, at that time, only needed to write, "I divorce you," on a paper and give it to their wife if they got tired of her.  If she was getting a little old or not giving him the sons he desired he could just put her aside and marry again.  So I think it was more about protection of women in a harsh world with no social services to fall back on. These days most Christian pastors keep Jesus' intention to relieve suffering in mind and are much more likely to okay divorce, particularly if it's a case of one of the three "A"s adultery, abuse, or alcoholism. 

[MissLucas]

There are medieval historians who claim that the church pronouncing matrimony a sacrament (thereby removing more informal practices of the times ) was doing so in order to stop the somewhat relaxed position especially the rising nobility took towards marriage. There was a tendency of getting rid of your wife once you got tired of her, she had lost her good looks or her dowry was used up (or all of those things). Of course over the centuries what was first instituted to improve the position of married women backfired spectacularly. I had an aunt who stuck with her abusive husband (he liked to choke her) because 'she had made a promise in front of God'.

Reading through this thread is very frustrating for someone who loved the books. Why oh why did they completely rewrite everything I loved about the books? I can take altering timelines, merging characters or even dropping characters. But to completely change the central romance in every aspect (not just switching the love-interest but also the consequences of the relationship for the main character) is something I've never seen done before and it's beyond irritating.

Edited July 17, 2017 by MissLucas

[beadgirl]

Quote

This is what I absolutely despise about religion. (Or at least certain religions.) The woman (and let's face it, it's almost always the woman) is in a terrible position—her husband abandons/abuses/generally mistreats her, but she has to suck it up because she "took a vow before God." Fuck that. I've never been able to reconcile the idea that a benevolent God wants His children to suffer like that.

Quote

When Jesus said there was too much divorce going on, he was mainly talking to the men, who, at that time, only needed to write, "I divorce you," on a paper and give it to their wife if they got tired of her.  If she was getting a little old or not giving him the sons he desired he could just put her aside and marry again.  So I think it was more about protection of women in a harsh world with no social services to fall back on. These days most Christian pastors keep Jesus' intention to relieve suffering in mind and are much more likely to okay divorce, particularly if it's a case of one of the three "A"s adultery, abuse, or alcoholism. 

Also, in the Catholic Church at least, the issue isn't divorce per se -- the Church recognizes, and even encourages, separation or divorce if it is necessary to keep a spouse and/or children physically, emotionally, or even financially safe.  But divorce is a civil matter, and cannot undue the sacramental/spiritual nature of the marriage. There have been, of course, priests and others who because of cultural or historical attitudes think the wives must put up whatever the husband does, but that's not what the Church Herself expects.

[rhys]

Amanda brought this point up & I completely agree with her: the Anglican faith was born because a fellow wanted to dump his wife & take another (& another & another, etc). So why were Anglicans so against divorce & a second marriage?

[Kohola3]

It's my belief that organized religions of all faiths are born out of a need to circumvent some unpopular rules of society.  I personally think they do way more harm than good.  But that's just me.

Sidney is a vicar and thus subject to the rules imposed upon him by the Anglican church, period.  If he cannot live within the rules, then quit. Simple as that.

[dubbel zout]

15 minutes ago, rhys said:

the Anglican faith was born because a fellow wanted to dump his wife & take another (& another & another, etc). So why were Anglicans so against divorce & a second marriage?

Grossly simplified, because Henry VIII breaking with the Catholic Church was a process, and things went back and forth between Catholicism and Protestantism for a while.

7 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

Sidney is a vicar and thus subject to the rules imposed upon him by the Anglican church, period.  If he cannot live within the rules, then quit. Simple as that.

Yep. It's not as if being a vicar is the only way he can serve God.

[2727]

Sidney hasn't even acted like his faith is particularly important to him since season one. He might as well be a greengrocer for all the vicar-ing he's done lately.

[MJ Frog]

As someone who watches this show for all the wrong reasons, you must consider the source when I say that I don't have much of a problem with Sidney, at least in respect to his relationship with Amanda. As I have said before, Amanda is separated from her husband and in the process of divorcing him -- scandalous by the mores of the time (especially given Sidney's position) but not immoral. Although Sidney is certainly a hypocrite, quite literally preaching one thing -- to the congregation as well as everybody else -- and doing another. And damn, that dude fornicates a lot for a vicar. Really not a bad life when you think about it: the church pays your rent and salary while you get as much sex, booze, and jazz as you can handle.

Amanda's reasons for choosing Guy instead of Sidney were definitely foolish, and showed an utter lack of self-knowledge, but I find her change of heart reasonably believable. A big dose of reality has a way of changing your perspective. She is much more grounded and likeable now, and she and Sidney really do seem good together. The times and the situation they find themselves in are complicated, but they aren't. When forced to choose between the woman and the cloth, always choose the woman. But that's just me, and then the show would end, as others have pointed out.

[elle]

15 hours ago, HoodlumSheep said:

It isn't so much the shows that are depressing for me. It's the sudden downward spiral of terrible main couples that we've been getting. You can't really root for them anymore. At least on the shows I've watched. Poldark-Ross' character has tanked and demelza should not have to put up with that crap. Grantchester-Sidney and Amanda, toxic and unhealthy. My mother and Other strangers-one of the worst romances i've seen on tv (and pbs) in recent memory. 

"Depressing" is a good description for the turn of the shows for me.  One thing that can be said in favor of the Poldark angst, as aggravating as those characters are,  is that they are staying true to the original story.  Sad to think "what could have been" if the writers had done the same for this show and not decided to shove the Sidney/Amanda debacle on us.  

As for the third show, written for TV, the less said the better.

Edited July 18, 2017 by elle

[rhys]

I guess I was unclear in my questions about Episcopalians. When divorce is the prime motivator of the person starting this brand of Protestantism, why then does it follow that divorce is bad?

Believe me; I get why Sidney shouldn't be shagging Amanda outside of marriage. He shouldn't be even dating her. But let's just say she divorces. Is she still off limits to Sid? If so, why?

[Kohola3]

Isn't it because he's a vicar that he cannot marry a divorced woman?

[JudyObscure]

31 minutes ago, rhys said:

I guess I was unclear in my questions about Episcopalians. When divorce is the prime motivator of the person starting this brand of Protestantism, why then does it follow that divorce is bad?

Henry VIII wasn't after divorce, he was after annulment of his first marriage which he believed was against the teachings of the Catholic church.  She had been married to his brother and it was against the Catholic rules then to marry your bother's widow. Henry thought his lack of a male heir was do the  fact that he was" living in sin" with a woman he wasn't legally supposed to have married.  The Pope refused to grant the annulment,  for political reasons,  and that, along with other issues like corruption in the RC leadership, was why Henry wanted to separate from the church. 

  Sidney couldn't remain a vicar and marry a divorced woman in the 1950's. 

[khyber]

On 7/16/2017 at 7:26 PM, piedmontgirl said:

Geordie is a pig and Sidney should turn his vicar license in.

Mr. Khyber said, "Why doesn't he just quit the church and become a policeman, since that's what he really likes to do"?