S03.E07: Expenses

[Gobi]

I don't see how Mike would ever think he could find out what happened to Anita's husband. He's been dead for eight years. Nacho is too young to have been involved, and given the attrition rate in the drug business, anyone who was involved is probably dead or in prison. I agree with those who said that Nacho asking questions about it would set off all kinds of alarm bells. I'm pretty sure that asking cartel members about murders they have been involved in is a good way to shorten your own life. Of course, maybe Nacho heard some old timers talk about the time that they had to kill a jogger who interrupted their drug deal, but that's about the best Mike could hope for. Also, I don't see why Mike would leap to the conclusion that the death was drug related. If there was reason to suspect that, the police would have looked into it through their informants, and would have been far more likely to find out something eight years earlier.

Edited May 24, 2017 by Gobi
Spelling

[Bannon]

4 minutes ago, Tatum said:

Ooh, good call!

The problem I would have with Nacho being asked that is that it would be very unlikely that he would personally know (even accepting the unlikelihood that Salamanca's crew killed him) where the body is, or if he did, if he would remember the specific spot, and his asking around would be way, way, too suspicious, and get him killed. I really hope that isn't where this is going. It makes no sense.

[Hanahope]

Oh, I wanted to add with regard to Jimmy's community service.  Obviously the point is not to pick up as much trash as possible, the point is to do some mindless boring/disgusting job as a punishment.  they don't really care how much trash you pick up, they care about you having to spend time doing it, instead of doing something else.  So the key is to just take your time, and slowly collect as little trash as possible.

1 minute ago, Bannon said:

The problem I would have with Nacho being asked that is that it would be very unlikely that he would personally know (even accepting the unlikelihood that Salamanca's crew killed him) where the body is, or if he did, if he would remember the specific spot, and his asking around would be way, way, too suspicious, and get him killed. I really hope that isn't where this is going. It makes no sense.

My guess is that Nacho will have some 'get together' with the guys who did it, under the guise of getting drunk/having fun and telling stories of their work and in that atmosphere Nacho will get the guys to tell the story of the driver.

[Tatum]

4 minutes ago, Bannon said:

The problem I would have with Nacho being asked that is that it would be very unlikely that he would personally know (even accepting the unlikelihood that Salamanca's crew killed him) where the body is, or if he did, if he would remember the specific spot, and his asking around would be way, way, too suspicious, and get him killed. I really hope that isn't where this is going. It makes no sense.

I'm confused- what do you mean about accepting the unlikelihood that Salamanca's crew killed him? Nacho told Mike last season that Hector is the one who shot the truck driver. He may not know where the body is, but he does know Hector killed him.

[Bannon]

2 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

Oh, I wanted to add with regard to Jimmy's community service.  Obviously the point is not to pick up as much trash as possible, the point is to do some mindless boring/disgusting job as a punishment.  they don't really care how much trash you pick up, they care about you having to spend time doing it, instead of doing something else.  So the key is to just take your time, and slowly collect as little trash as possible.

My guess is that Nacho will have some 'get together' with the guys who did it, under the guise of getting drunk/having fun and telling stories of their work and in that atmosphere Nacho will get the guys to tell the story of the driver.

I really hope not. That would be an instance of writing Mike and Nacho dumb, for purposes of plot advancement, which this show was never done with important characters, except for comic effect. If you are part of a murderous criminal organization, one thing you never do, under any circumstances, is ask people where they disposed of bodies. You may talk about it with people who already know the locations, if you know the locations, but you don't ask about what you don't know. 

[Bryce Lynch]

To take a break from the insurance talk, here is an accounting issue.  I know, out of the frying pan of boredom and into the fire. :)

Kim: "Okay, so Mm Looks like puts me ahead this month $3,172. All right. And what's it to even me up? Uh divided by 2. $1,586."

If Kim had paid $3.172 more than Jimmy in the month, wouldn't Jimmy need to contribute another $3,172 (not $1,586) to even out the share of the expenses they paid?

I think Gilligan has great legal, chemical and law enforcement consultants, but needs a better accounting consultant.  On BB, with Beneke Fabricators, they conflated "cooking the books" by showing revenue with no back up with tax evasion.  If he was booking fake revenue, he would have overpaid on his taxes, not underpaid.

BTW, all these years later, I just realized that Beneke Fabricators is a double entendre.  (Builders/Assemblers and Liars/forgers).  

Edited May 24, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[Bannon]

3 minutes ago, Tatum said:

I'm confused- what do you mean about accepting the unlikelihood that Salamanca's crew killed him? Nacho told Mike last season that Hector is the one who shot the truck driver. He may not know where the body is, but he does know Hector killed him.

My mistake. I was confusing him with the missing husband mentioned in the grief counseling meeting. If Nacho knows already, fine, but I can't believe he would ask Hector or anybody else about any body locations.

[Tatum]

1 minute ago, Bannon said:

My mistake. I was confusing him with the missing husband mentioned in the grief counseling meeting. If Nacho knows already, fine, but I can't believe he would ask Hector or anybody else about any body locations.

No, you're right, it would only work if Nacho already knew where the body was. Which he might, if he was on clean up crew. Or maybe they have a place where they just take bodies when they want them to disappear.

 

I think it's a long shot, but I much prefer the possibility that the assumed widow's grief over the unknown and lack of closure prompted him to consider what the family of the truck driver is feeling and he wants to help them, then the idea Mike is going to go all Veronica Mars on a dangerous cartel for a woman he just met, and appears to be moving on as well as she can.

[Bannon]

1 minute ago, Tatum said:

No, you're right, it would only work if Nacho already knew where the body was. Which he might, if he was on clean up crew. Or maybe they have a place where they just take bodies when they want them to disappear.

 

I think it's a long shot, but I much prefer the possibility that the assumed widow's grief over the unknown and lack of closure prompted him to consider what the family of the truck driver is feeling and he wants to help them, then the idea Mike is going to go all Veronica Mars on a dangerous cartel for a woman he just met, and appears to be moving on as well as she can.

Yeah, lot of criminal gangs have had regular dumping spots for burying victims, and if Nacho is aware of one, or did the burying, he could be a help here. Mike would still be well advised to contrive a way for the spot to be "discovered". If the police and cadaver sniffing dogs just show up one day, a snitch will be suspected.

[Tatum]

11 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Yeah, lot of criminal gangs have had regular dumping spots for burying victims, and if Nacho is aware of one, or did the burying, he could be a help here. Mike would still be well advised to contrive a way for the spot to be "discovered". If the police and cadaver sniffing dogs just show up one day, a snitch will be suspected.

That would be interesting if Mike's machinations got another crew member fingered as the snitch and then permanently dealt with. Would Mike still feel guilt over a cartel member (assuming not Nacho) being killed as a result of Mike's actions? Assuming this crew member was without any of Nacho's redeemable qualities?

[Bannon]

1 minute ago, Tatum said:

That would be interesting if Mike's machinations got another crew member fingered as the snitch and then permanently dealt with. Would Mike still feel guilt over a cartel member (assuming not Nacho) being killed as a result of Mike's actions? Assuming this crew member was without any of Nacho's redeemable qualities?

The tragedy of Mike is that he has the consicence to feel guilt, and he is extremely smart and skilled, but his skills are most valuable to people that have qualities which nearly guarantee triggering huge feelings of guilt in Mike, if Mike does business with them. And his biggest source of feelings of guilt, the death of his son, will compel him to do business with them. He is on the hamster wheel to hell.

[scenario]

4 hours ago, LotusFlower said:

There's no risk to his family.  And there's potentially a big reward for Anita if he gets an answer.  

There is a big risk for Anita. If the criminals start to think that Anita is asking questions, she might end up dead.

[JudyObscure]

I think Anita may be dealing with more than just the sort of grief that parents or family members might feel. There may be moments of anger as well as sorrow. Wives of missing husbands probably always wonder if he "went missing," of his own accord.  Was it that last fight they had?  Was it that woman who called and said it was the wrong number?  Knowing he was killed by criminals  might be a sort of relief for her.

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I think the fact that he was in the Navy is probably irrelevant.  I assume he was no longer in the service, as I don't think there is a large Navy presence in NM for the same reason Hank Schraeder won't eat sushi in NM.  :)   

 

 

I believe the writers just threw the part about the uniform in, to get Mike's ears to perk up, thinking her husband might have been a fellow cop. They didn't want him to be a cop, so they made him a Navy vet.   If not for the mention of the uniform, Mike probably doesn't approach Anita to ask her about her husband.  

Skylar.  Being a bitch to her kind hearted brother-in-law for no reason.

[ghoulina]

17 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I wonder if Jimmy supported Chuck's "illness" for so long because it was Chuck's con?

Holy crap. Mindblown. Con respects con. 

[LoneHaranguer]

3 hours ago, Bannon said:

My point was that, in dealing with a lot of insurance claims, health, property and casualty, mostly, insurance contracts typically are vague enough to not terribly infrequently give incentive to the insurer to either deny a claim, or more typically, pay out a claim on a reduced basis,

An ambiguity in a contract is held against the party that drafted the contract, so it's not an incentive for an insurer to invite a lawsuit that they'll lose by denying a legitimate claim. 

[Bannon]

13 minutes ago, LoneHaranguer said:

An ambiguity in a contract is held against the party that drafted the contract, so it's not an incentive for an insurer to invite a lawsuit that they'll lose by denying a legitimate claim. 

Yes, and what is "ambiguous" and "legitimate" is yet another area of dispute. The point is that trying to litigate a dispute against an entity that  has vastly more resources is a daunting, daunting task, in anything but the cleanest slam dunk dispute, which are few and far between. There really isn't any way around the fact that having a lot more money to litigate is a clear advantage in any contract dispute, and entities with a .lot more money use that fact to their advantage. 

[scenario]

21 minutes ago, LoneHaranguer said:

An ambiguity in a contract is held against the party that drafted the contract, so it's not an incentive for an insurer to invite a lawsuit that they'll lose by denying a legitimate claim. 

But insurers do it all the time. Especially if the insured person is poor. Especially in medical insurance situations. "I see the case is a 75 year old man who got into a car accident. He could cost us hundreds of thousands of dollars. I see he used a skin cream for acne when he was 15 years old. A ha, he has a preexisting medical condition he didn't tell us about. Retroactively cancel his health insurance and send him a check for the amount he overpaid. If he doesn't like it, he can sue us."

[RealReality]

4 hours ago, LotusFlower said:

@RealReality - All I'm saying is that Anita expressed a desire to know what happened to her missing husband, as opposed to the false notion that she no longer cares because she's moved on.  I'm sure the degree of relief varies for everyone.  Glad you caught the scene.  That's all.

I never said she moved on I said she is moving forward with her life.  Which is exactly what she is doing by giving away her husband's clothing.  I don't believe I ever said she has moved on, I believe I said she is moving forward or moving on.  Not that she has moved on or is over him.

[RealReality]

4 hours ago, Ottis said:

 Plus, I'm not entirely sure he's done with Hector. Mike cannot let go. So Mike is back in the game.

 

This is the one explanation that makes sense to me.  That Mike really doesn't want to be done with Hector.  And this would make him far more interesting than the 2-dimensional explanation about how much he loves Anita.

4 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

All this scintillating insurance talk has me thinking that Gilligan and Gould's next project should be "Risk Management", a hard hitting drama that goes deep into the inner workings of the ABQ insurance industry...NOT. :)

I kid you not, my job as an adjuster exposed me to some of the most off the wall, interesting and entertaining people and situations of my entire life.

I once drove to the top of a mountain to settle a claim.  No, I take that back, I drove to the bottom of a mountain and took a ski lift up the rest of the way!

And it had its good times.  I once paid out a claim that allowed a single mother to give her twin boys Christmas gifts that year.  Insurance companies can be evil, but they are still full of people who aren't.

4 hours ago, Tatum said:

I sadly would watch this. I remember an episode of House that focused on Cuddy's role as a hospital administrator and had no medical drama the entire hour. Everyone thought it was so boring. I thought it was the best episode I'd watched.

I liked that episode too.

[Clanstarling]

20 hours ago, scenario said:

But that's how it works in big business or the government. It doesn't matter how much work you do. It only matters how much work it looks like you did. If he's talking on the phone it doesn't look like he worked hard even if he filled up twice as many bags.

Having worked in both big business and the government, I'd say it's a more common attitude in big business than government. At least, where I have worked. But in either case, results still count. 

4 hours ago, paigow said:

Although the White Sands Missile Range is under Army control / administration, there are a lot of joint weapon testing projects with Air Force/ Navy / Marines that might explain why the dead husband could have been on active duty in New Mexico....

I believe she said her husband was retired.

4 hours ago, Dev F said:

True, but I do think it's significant that he responds to the delivery guy's anger by quoting the community service guy who stiffed him earlier in the episode: "We can make it zero." It's a pretty big break with Jimmy's previous behavior, which has tended to be fairly empathetic: Life has fucked me over pretty badly, so I'd hate for anyone else to get fucked on my account. The attitude displayed here is pretty much exactly the opposite: I have to deal with this shit, so this random delivery guy should have to deal with it too.

Which leads pretty directly into Jimmy's gambit at the end of the episode, when he decides that if he's gonna get stiffed by his insurance company, then dammit, he'll make sure Chuck gets stiffed too.

Yep. He's dealing with his own shit; Anita's story is just the trigger.

That's why I tend to think that the whole incident will end up being associative -- that it's not about Mike deciding to solve an eight-year-old missing persons case for someone he just met, but about Anita's story forcing Mike to rethink whether he's really moved past the murder of the Good Samaritan. I agree with whoever it was upthread who suggested that the "one more thing" he demands from Nacho will end up being the location where they buried the Good Samaritan's body in the desert, so his family will have the closure Anita never got.

Which, interestingly, would make Mike's story here almost the polar opposite of Jimmy's -- if he decides, Life fucked over this poor woman really badly, but I'll be damned if some other family gets fucked over the same way on my account.

Excellent points. I love the way you pull it around to a comparison at the end.

To me, the insurance scene was the first time Jimmy (in my opinion) was purely vindictive. I thought his initial tears were real (though my husband laughed immediately - so even on the same couch, mileage varied).   I'd forgotten about the pay it forward assholery, though that was more about having a shitty day than getting revenge. It wasn't cool, but it was garden variety jerkitude.

Somewhere in the way back in the episode forum, there was a little discussion about whether Mike's daughter-in-law approved the small spark between Mike and Anita. For what it's worth, I thought she looked pleased. 

[rue721]

5 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

It's fun to speculate about Chuck's insurability, but my take-home from reading the insurance representative's behavior with Jimmy is that Chuck and/or HHM are in some trouble.  Probably not insignificant. 

I think that the important part, in the insurer's eyes, is that Jimmy said that Chuck actually had made the error, and that he is on very thin ice with his firm because of his errors. I think that Jimmy said something like, "...and if he makes one more mistake...!" Then he told the agent that everything she would want to know is in the transcripts.

Jimmy was flat out lying about Chuck making mistakes, which is the main reason that I knew from jump that Jimmy was playing her. Although I do think that he really broke when he couldn't get the refund. I am not sure whether the show's intention was that Jimmy had come up with the scheme to screw over Chuck before going into the insurance office, but IMO it seemed like Jimmy really didn't -- mostly because of how he reacted to the insurance agent asking him if he was Charles McGill. The look on his face (I think) was like he wasn't necessarily expecting to hear Chuck's name right then and was a little taken aback by it.

Anyway, I think the point was mostly to get her to look at the transcripts, and read about Chuck's craziness. I don't think that he has some specific dollar amount he's trying to cost the firm or Chuck or whatever, I think he just wanted to put Chuck on blast and embarrass him (by having yet more eyes on the transcripts).

And IMO it's also possible that there's a part of Jimmy that wants someone to take (or at least sympathize with) HIS side in this. I mean, he didn't actually need to go into the whole rigmarole where he told the insurance agent every sad thing going on in his life, including that his girl is disappointed in him. I think maybe a part of him wanted the insurance agent to see that Chuck had hurt him, and sympathize with him for it, even as he was striking back and trying to hurt Chuck.

I think Jimmy is in pretty desperate need of a friend right now. Kim is doing her best, but she's so self-contained and is only one (overworked) person, and Jimmy knows she's not pleased. Plus, I think he knows that there's a clock on their relationship, and probably always had. And even when he was celebrating his win with her right after the panel's judgement, Rebecca came in and ruined it.

Anyway, why does Jimmy have no friends?

4 hours ago, RealReality said:

Would people care more if the lawyer was poor?  Just curious.

No, they wouldn't. Jimmy learned that the hard way.

The insurer does not care at all whether he's poor or whether he can afford to take this hit.

4 hours ago, paigow said:

Although the White Sands Missile Range is under Army control / administration, there are a lot of joint weapon testing projects with Air Force/ Navy / Marines that might explain why the dead husband could have been on active duty in New Mexico....

Maybe, as well as weapons, the Navy is involved in planes, too? I don't know much about it personally, but I remember hearing somewhere that there are a lot of pilots in the Navy, and it has a really strong air fleet.

4 hours ago, Dev F said:

True, but I do think it's significant that he responds to the delivery guy's anger by quoting the community service guy who stiffed him earlier in the episode: "We can make it zero." It's a pretty big break with Jimmy's previous behavior, which has tended to be fairly empathetic: Life has fucked me over pretty badly, so I'd hate for anyone else to get fucked on my account. The attitude displayed here is pretty much exactly the opposite: I have to deal with this shit, so this random delivery guy should have to deal with it too.

You're right.

I think that Jimmy just had the realization that Chuck hated him and actively *wanted* to screw him over, and now he thinks that that's how the whole world works. IMO, in Jimmy's head, the community service guy *wanted* to screw him over, so he wouldn't negotiate on time. And, in Jimmy's head, the delivery guy *wanted* to screw him over, so he was asking for more money -- so Jimmy is screwing him over right back. I think that Jimmy is finally thinking of the world as dog-eat-dog. Crabs-in-a-bucket. Whatever other wildlife analogy you want. ;)

4 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

To take a break from the insurance talk, here is an accounting issue.  I know, out of the frying pan of boredom and into the fire. :)

Kim: "Okay, so Mm Looks like puts me ahead this month $3,172. All right. And what's it to even me up? Uh divided by 2. $1,586."

If Kim had paid $3.172 more than Jimmy in the month, wouldn't Jimmy need to contribute another $3,172 (not $1,586) to even out the share of the expenses they paid?

To me, it sounds like she's right.

Say they had split everything evenly, and then a bill for $3,172 came in. Then Kim paid the bill. She would be "ahead" by $3,172. So she asks Jimmy for money to split the bill. He should give her half the total amount of the bill payment, $1,586. Then they're even again.

[RealReality]

@rue721 -- I noticed that the lady at the insurance office was like "Oh, are you Charles McGill of Hamlin, Hamlin, McGill!?!?" like all bright eyed and bushy tailed.  And when he was like "no, I'm Jimmy McGill, solo practitioner" she was like "oh, okay"  She wasn't mean, but you could tell she would have been impressed by a founding partner at a big law firm.

[ShadowFacts]

4 hours ago, Bannon said:

Yeah, lot of criminal gangs have had regular dumping spots for burying victims, and if Nacho is aware of one, or did the burying, he could be a help here. Mike would still be well advised to contrive a way for the spot to be "discovered". If the police and cadaver sniffing dogs just show up one day, a snitch will be suspected.

I think almost no matter what, a snitch will be suspected.  If this is even what Mike is asking about, Nacho would be very foolish to cooperate.   There's nothing in it for him, only risk.  All he has to say is he doesn't know, just the way Mike advised Pryce to do -- say you don't have it.  Somebody finds the body, then shortly before or after, Hector is dead as Nacho intends, he is in a very bad place with the cartel.  He'd be nuts to give Mike anything. 

It is notable that if it is the good samaritan's remains that Mike is bothered by, a few years in the future he doesn't seem to have the same concern about Drew Sharp.  If memory serves (often doesn't), only Jesse was really disturbed by that poor kid.  By that time Mike has seen and done a lot of soul-deadening killing. 

[Atlanta]

Jimmy needs to take a job (for the next year) at Los Pollos Hermanos. :D

Could Anita's hubby have been a Navy SEAL? Do they do desert training in NM? Did he leave the military and do military contracting and saw something?

[PeterPirate]

24 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I think almost no matter what, a snitch will be suspected.  If this is even what Mike is asking about, Nacho would be very foolish to cooperate.   There's nothing in it for him, only risk.  All he has to say is he doesn't know, just the way Mike advised Pryce to do -- say you don't have it.  Somebody finds the body, then shortly before or after, Hector is dead as Nacho intends, he is in a very bad place with the cartel.  He'd be nuts to give Mike anything. 

It is notable that if it is the good samaritan's remains that Mike is bothered by, a few years in the future he doesn't seem to have the same concern about Drew Sharp.  If memory serves (often doesn't), only Jesse was really disturbed by that poor kid.  By that time Mike has seen and done a lot of soul-deadening killing. 

If Mike does try to investigate what happened to Good Samaritan, the unintended consequences must be so horrific that he never even thinks about doing something like that again.

This is the opposite of retcon, which I guess is procon.

Edited May 25, 2017 by PeterPirate

[Bryce Lynch]

52 minutes ago, rue721 said:

I think that the important part, in the insurer's eyes, is that Jimmy said that Chuck actually had made the error, and that he is on very thin ice with his firm because of his errors. I think that Jimmy said something like, "...and if he makes one more mistake...!" Then he told the agent that everything she would want to know is in the transcripts.

Jimmy was flat out lying about Chuck making mistakes, which is the main reason that I knew from jump that Jimmy was playing her. Although I do think that he really broke when he couldn't get the refund. I am not sure whether the show's intention was that Jimmy had come up with the scheme to screw over Chuck before going into the insurance office, but IMO it seemed like Jimmy really didn't -- mostly because of how he reacted to the insurance agent asking him if he was Charles McGill. The look on his face (I think) was like he wasn't necessarily expecting to hear Chuck's name right then and was a little taken aback by it.

Anyway, I think the point was mostly to get her to look at the transcripts, and read about Chuck's craziness. I don't think that he has some specific dollar amount he's trying to cost the firm or Chuck or whatever, I think he just wanted to put Chuck on blast and embarrass him (by having yet more eyes on the transcripts).

And IMO it's also possible that there's a part of Jimmy that wants someone to take (or at least sympathize with) HIS side in this. I mean, he didn't actually need to go into the whole rigmarole where he told the insurance agent every sad thing going on in his life, including that his girl is disappointed in him. I think maybe a part of him wanted the insurance agent to see that Chuck had hurt him, and sympathize with him for it, even as he was striking back and trying to hurt Chuck.

I think Jimmy is in pretty desperate need of a friend right now. Kim is doing her best, but she's so self-contained and is only one (overworked) person, and Jimmy knows she's not pleased. Plus, I think he knows that there's a clock on their relationship, and probably always had. And even when he was celebrating his win with her right after the panel's judgement, Rebecca came in and ruined it.

Anyway, why does Jimmy have no friends?

No, they wouldn't. Jimmy learned that the hard way.

The insurer does not care at all whether he's poor or whether he can afford to take this hit.

Maybe, as well as weapons, the Navy is involved in planes, too? I don't know much about it personally, but I remember hearing somewhere that there are a lot of pilots in the Navy, and it has a really strong air fleet.

You're right.

I think that Jimmy just had the realization that Chuck hated him and actively *wanted* to screw him over, and now he thinks that that's how the whole world works. IMO, in Jimmy's head, the community service guy *wanted* to screw him over, so he wouldn't negotiate on time. And, in Jimmy's head, the delivery guy *wanted* to screw him over, so he was asking for more money -- so Jimmy is screwing him over right back. I think that Jimmy is finally thinking of the world as dog-eat-dog. Crabs-in-a-bucket. Whatever other wildlife analogy you want. ;)

To me, it sounds like she's right.

Say they had split everything evenly, and then a bill for $3,172 came in. Then Kim paid the bill. She would be "ahead" by $3,172. So she asks Jimmy for money to split the bill. He should give her half the total amount of the bill payment, $1,586. Then they're even again.

You and Kim are right and I was wrong.  I was thinking as if they were one business not two seperate practices and Jimmy was putting  $1586 into the business towards expenses.  But, he was actually reimbursing Kim and she was keeping the $1,586 making them even.

[LoneHaranguer]

2 hours ago, Bannon said:

There really isn't any way around the fact that having a lot more money to litigate is a clear advantage in any contract dispute, and entities with a .lot more money use that fact to their advantage. 

That's where lawyers willing to work on contingency come in (like Saul).

[peggy06]

Regarding what Kim knew and when she knew it, I seem to recall she firmly stopped Jimmy from talking about it, so she wouldn't hear anything incriminating. I believe it was when they were in bed the night after Chuck summoned Kim to his house to spill the beans on Jimmy (that is, tell her his theory of what had happened).

[Bannon]

23 minutes ago, LoneHaranguer said:

That's where lawyers willing to work on contingency come in (like Saul).

It really has to be a large bucket of chum to attract that kind of shark, and the chance of getting to it have to very strong. The more money the defendent has, the lesser that chance is. There are a lot of wealthy entities, including some insurance companies, whose business strategy contains a central element of "Stiff any schmuck who doesn't have enough dry powder to go to war with us, if we have any argument that doesn't produce outright laughter, and maybe even if it does.". With insurance companies, a common tipoff is easy front-end underwriting, insuring against an event of some complexity. That's the kind of outfit you better be prepared to go to the mattresses with, if you ever file a substantial claim. 

[scenario]

1 hour ago, PeterPirate said:

If Mike does try to investigate what happened to Good Samaritan, the unintended consequences must be so horrific that he never even thinks about doing something like that again.

This is the opposite of retcon, which I guess is procon.

Jimmy's trial was the turning point from Jimmy to Saul. Maybe this is the turning point from Mike to Killer Mike. No good deed goes unpunished. 

[Bannon]

1 hour ago, Atlanta said:

Jimmy needs to take a job (for the next year) at Los Pollos Hermanos. :D

Could Anita's hubby have been a Navy SEAL? Do they do desert training in NM? Did he leave the military and do military contracting and saw something?

The air force base in Albuquerque has a Special Operations element, and yes, Special Operations people from all 4 branches spend some time there. I really think, however, that Anita's husband was regular Navy retired. Lots of retired military in Albuquerque, including Navy, in good measure because it has one of the better VA hospitals.  

[paigow]

8 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

All this scintillating insurance talk has me thinking that Gilligan and Gould's next project should be "Risk Management", a hard hitting drama that goes deep into the inner workings of the ABQ insurance industry...NOT. :)

"Better Call Flo"

[LotusFlower]

6 hours ago, RealReality said:

I never said she moved on I said she is moving forward with her life.  Which is exactly what she is doing by giving away her husband's clothing.  I don't believe I ever said she has moved on, I believe I said she is moving forward or moving on.  Not that she has moved on or is over him.

This is focusing on one thing she said in the meeting, and ignoring what she said next.  Plus, the two aren't mutually exclusive.  It's possible to make a step towards "moving on," and still need resolution.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

11 hours ago, dmmetler said:

You mean the folks who advertise on AMC (at least on demand). Seriously, I think they're advertising to Jimmy McGill's Elder law demographic. 

I watch live, and I am seeing truly terrible commercials for "miracle water."  I think it's disgraceful that AMC takes their money, no matter how much they pay for the spots.  I'm also surprised that the advertiser believes that the viewers of Better Call Saul are really so gullible as to be the target demographic for these ads, but just because I don't think they're going to be hugely successful, does not mean that I think they AMC should be running them.  Honestly, the first time I saw one of these ads, I believed at first that it was part of the show, that's how outrageous it was.

[smorbie]

I'm sure that the continued insurance-coverage question is interesting for some, and by all means, guys, enjoy it.  That's what these forums are for.

But could someone wake me when we are discussing something a little less....dry?   :)

[Gobi]

4 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I watch live, and I am seeing truly terrible commercials for "miracle water."  I think it's disgraceful that AMC takes their money, no matter how much they pay for the spots.  I'm also surprised that the advertiser believes that the viewers of Better Call Saul are really so gullible as to be the target demographic for these ads, but just because I don't think they're going to be hugely successful, does not mean that I think they AMC should be running them.  Honestly, the first time I saw one of these ads, I believed at first that it was part of the show, that's how outrageous it was.

They don't show those in my area. What is miracle water? Is their slogan "Stays dry even when wet"?

[Gobi]

9 hours ago, Bannon said:

It really has to be a large bucket of chum to attract that kind of shark, and the chance of getting to it have to very strong. The more money the defendent has, the lesser that chance is. There are a lot of wealthy entities, including some insurance companies, whose business strategy contains a central element of "Stiff any schmuck who doesn't have enough dry powder to go to war with us, if we have any argument that doesn't produce outright laughter, and maybe even if it does.". With insurance companies, a common tipoff is easy front-end underwriting, insuring against an event of some complexity. That's the kind of outfit you better be prepared to go to the mattresses with, if you ever file a substantial claim. 

There are also law firms whose business strategy is to file frivolous claims and then settle for less money than it would cost for the defendant to try the case and win. No one has unlimited resources.

[scenario]

13 minutes ago, Gobi said:

They don't show those in my area. What is miracle water? Is their slogan "Stays dry even when wet"?

It's advertised as magic water that will cure all illness. Obvious fraud. 

[Juliegirlj]

My heart was aching watching Jimmy's desperation. He is such an optimist and it's painful to see his struggles. 

Cannot stand the manipulative daughter in law. The actress that played the widow was in that movie with Al Pacino where he played a lawyer that was THE Devil. Creepy!!!!! 

I don't think Mike intends on trying to solve the missing Navy guy mystery. It made him realize the family of the Good Samaritan is going through the same thing. He will tell Nacho that an anonymous tip needs to be made. 

I think Jimmy is going to dip his toe into insurance fraud. When the woman at the insurance agency told him they can't refund his premiums but can pay for any suits against him-I thought I saw a giant light bulb turn on over his head!! 

[Tatum]

7 minutes ago, Juliegirlj said:

 

Cannot stand the manipulative daughter in law. The actress that played the widow was in that movie with Al Pacino where he played a lawyer that was THE Devil. Creepy!!!!! 

 

While I don't know where they're going with the character- if anywhere- I agree there is something very annoying about this character. I don't know that she's out to directly con him, but she has taken to kissing his ass lately and it's probably done to keep the support checks coming.

[Bryce Lynch]

3 minutes ago, Juliegirlj said:

My heart was aching watching Jimmy's desperation. He is such an optimist and it's painful to see his struggles. 

Cannot stand the manipulative daughter in law. The actress that played the widow was in that movie with Al Pacino where he played a lawyer that was THE Devil. Creepy!!!!! 

I don't think Mike intends on trying to solve the missing Navy guy mystery. It made him realize the family of the Good Samaritan is going through the same thing. He will tell Nacho that an anonymous tip needs to be made. 

I think Jimmy is going to dip his toe into insurance fraud. When the woman at the insurance agency told him they can't refund his premiums but can pay for any suits against him-I thought I saw a giant light bulb turn on over his head!! 

It was sad to see Jimmy so desperate but sadder to see him move more and more to the dark side.  He is bringing a lot of it on himself, with his pride.  If he told Kim he was short, I am sure she would carrying him for at least a couple of months, as she seems to be flush with Mesa Verde fees.  He is a lot like Walt lying to Skyler.

I don't find Stacey that manipulative, though I think it is open for debate.  

Yes, The Devil's Advocate is where I mainly remember Tamara Tunie from and I keep expecting her to morph into a demon. :)

I think there are a lot of possibilities regarding Mike's plan.  

I agree about the insurance fraud.  I was thinking he might get one or more of his elder law clients to sue him for malpractice and split the insurance settlement with them.  The other possibility could be some sort of contrived malpractice suit from his former Sandpiper clients.  

I was wondering if Jimmy could get one of those advances you see advertised on TV for potential lawsuit settlements, for his expected Sandpiper earnings.  I believe he is entitled to 20% of the proceeds, which could net him millions.  Maybe he could sell his future fees for a fraction of the expected amount now to get through his cash crisis.  

2 minutes ago, Tatum said:

While I don't know where they're going with the character- if anywhere- I agree there is something very annoying about this character. I don't know that she's out to directly con him, but she has taken to kissing his ass lately and it's probably done to keep the support checks coming.

Stacey's motives (and whether or not she really thought she heard shots) are mysterious.  But, I tend to the think she is really trying to help Mike with the support group and getting him involved playground build.  Mike has a rather dreary life, and at least on the surface, it seems like Stacey is trying to help him make friends and perhaps even find romance.  

[Clanstarling]

10 hours ago, paigow said:

"Better Call Flo"

For the win!

7 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I watch live, and I am seeing truly terrible commercials for "miracle water."  I think it's disgraceful that AMC takes their money, no matter how much they pay for the spots.  I'm also surprised that the advertiser believes that the viewers of Better Call Saul are really so gullible as to be the target demographic for these ads, but just because I don't think they're going to be hugely successful, does not mean that I think they AMC should be running them.  Honestly, the first time I saw one of these ads, I believed at first that it was part of the show, that's how outrageous it was.

Since I record everything I watch due to my schedule, fast forward is my friend, and I have no idea what commercials play, I zone out.

8 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I don't find Stacey that manipulative, though I think it is open for debate.  

I've gone back and forth with her, but in this case I really felt like she was pleased with Mike's interest in Anita.

[Tatum]

21 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Stacey's motives (and whether or not she really thought she heard shots) are mysterious.  But, I tend to the think she is really trying to help Mike with the support group and getting him involved playground build.  Mike has a rather dreary life, and at least on the surface, it seems like Stacey is trying to help him make friends and perhaps even find romance.  

I don't know if there is anything malicious about her character, and it could totally be that she was hoping to play matchmaker with a fellow bereaved. But I don't know if it's the actress or just the dialog but something about her just seems so insincere to me. 

[Tatum]

28 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

If he told Kim he was short, I am sure she would carrying him for at least a couple of months, as she seems to be flush with Mesa Verde fees.  He is a lot like Walt lying to Skyler.

Oh, I am really curious about this, for those of you in the know about self employment and private small practices. How much is Kim making from MV? When you're a solo worker with one client, do you still bill by the hour? Or do you arrange some kind of flat, monthly fee? How much would a client like MV expect to pay for ongoing legal counsel?

[Bryce Lynch]

5 minutes ago, Tatum said:

Oh, I am really curious about this, for those of you in the know about self employment and private small practices. How much is Kim making from MV? When you're a solo worker with one client, do you still bill by the hour? Or do you arrange some kind of flat, monthly fee? How much would a client like MV expect to pay for ongoing legal counsel?

I would imagine Kim would have gotten a retainer from MV and then billed hourly.  Given all the hours she was putting in, I would think she was doing OK.  She didn't seem to stressed about money when they were going over the expenses.  She might not have been able to carry Jimmy for the full 12 months, but I would think she could and would have carried him for a month or two, until he sold some commercials or found some other way to make some money.  

[Ohwell]

I think the actress who plays Stacey just looks sneaky, and that has influenced my perception of her ever since she's been on BB and now BCS.  

[ItCouldBeWorse]

50 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

She might not have been able to carry Jimmy for the full 12 months, but I would think she could and would have carried him for a month or two, until he sold some commercials or found some other way to make some money.  

I think that Jimmy would be humiliated to have to confess to Kim his inability to pay even for the short term.  Remember, she was practical and wanted to get a smaller office and let Francesca go, and he assured her that he could pay his half.  I'm assuming that he is going to come up with a less-than-honest way to make some decent money quickly, and that he will keep her in the dark.  He's already told her that he's not draining his bank account, when it seems fairly obvious that he is.  This may be what destroys their relationship.

[Bryce Lynch]

18 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I think that Jimmy would be humiliated to have to confess to Kim his inability to pay even for the short term.  Remember, she was practical and wanted to get a smaller office and let Francesca go, and he assured her that he could pay his half.  I'm assuming that he is going to come up with a less-than-honest way to make some decent money quickly, and that he will keep her in the dark.  He's already told her that he's not draining his bank account, when it seems fairly obvious that he is.  This may be what destroys their relationship.

Oh, I agree, but he should have swallowed his pride and asked Kim if she could carry the load for a month or two. I believe this was just the sort of thing they had in mind when they opened the shared office, if one was in a dry spell, the other could help him/her through it.  He reminds me of Walt turning down help from Grethen and Elliot and lying to Skyler about it. 

Edited May 25, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[ItCouldBeWorse]

5 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

23 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I think that Jimmy would be humiliated to have to confess to Kim his inability to pay even for the short term.  Remember, she was practical and wanted to get a smaller office and let Francesca go, and he assured her that he could pay his half.  I'm assuming that he is going to come up with a less-than-honest way to make some decent money quickly, and that he will keep her in the dark.  He's already told her that he's not draining his bank account, when it seems fairly obvious that he is.  This may be what destroys their relationship.

Oh, I agree, but he should have swallowed his pride and asked Kim if she could carry the load for a month or two. I believe this was just the sort of thing they had in mind when they opened the shared office, if one was in a dry spell, the other could help him/her through it.  He reminds me of Walt turning down help from Grethen and Elliot and lying to Skyler about it. 

You're right, of course, but when they were talking about dry spells, they were not contemplating his suspension, and I assume Jimmy is now very concerned that he can't keep up his end of the bargain after assuring Kim that everything would be fine. If he came clean, practical Kim would probably want to find a cheaper office (assuming they could get out of the lease) and let Francesca go.  Jimmy can't have that, so things are bound to go from manageable to unsustainable/possibly catastrophic, as with Walt.

Edited May 25, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Jextella]

43 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

I think the actress who plays Stacey just looks sneaky, and that has influenced my perception of her ever since she's been on BB and now BCS.  

I'm trying to remember - and can't seem to.  What kind of relationship did Mike have with Stacey in BB?  I seem to recall that not much was shown beyond him watching Kayley at the park and Stacey giving Mike a stern look from her doorway.  Something like that.  They weren't portrayed as being close the way they are in BCS.